GPS status

[paul]

Updating a side note on the recent thread about map expiry dates
here's a separate pullout of free GPS status apps without ads.

The fundamental open source app (as far as I know) started as this.
https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/

The rest "may" be copies (I don't know as I haven't tested them)
but these are on Google Play and they don't say they have ads or addons.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gpstest
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pierwiastek.gpsdataplus

With caveats this one is supposedly "by Google" (or developed "with Google")
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.location.gps.gnsslogger
(the caveat being Google is apparently involved & Google is Caveat Emptor!)

The caveat on these is that premium (or add on purchases) are offered
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.illyrium.tools.gpsmonitor
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chartcross.gpstest

Obviously I start with what the FOSS app does & compare the rest to it.
Let me know if you find anything the others do that the FOSS don't.

Also these apps sometimes get lumped into "asset tracker" apps which I've
tried to avoid in the list above (but they may have snuck in anyway).

Let me know if you have something better as I'm always looking for better.

[Andy Burns]

paul wrote:

> here's a separate pullout of free GPS status apps without ads.

Just to point out that the "pro" add-on for the MobiWIA GPS toolkit is
hardly extortionate ...

[paul]

Andy Burns wrote on 10.05.2021 11:45

> Just to point out that the "pro" add-on for the MobiWIA GPS toolkit is
> hardly extortionate ...

You missed my point.

My point of view is that if an app is merely an unabashed copy of a FOSS app
then displaying any ads or asking for any money is shameless (IMHO).

It's different if it's not simply an audacious copy of an existing FOSS app.
Is it?
What does any app do that you like which the FOSS app doesn't already do?

That's what's important.
What does it do that the FOSS app doesn't do?

If it does something the original FOSS app that it may be a copy of didn't
do then perhaps it's worth it to you to watch annoying ads or to pay money.

You didn't tell us what it did the FOSS app it may be a copy of didn't do.
So neither you nor I can make _any_ assessment of worth until that happens.

I don't know if it's extortionate or not (and you didn't bother to even try
to prove whether it was extortionate or not either so nobody knows).

For all we know whatever app you happen to like to pay for or to watch ads
on could have _less_ value than a FOSS app it may be a shameless copy of.

As I said, I didn't test all these apps - I'm just listing the ones which
claim to do the job and which don't have ads (or required add on costs).

BTW the search terms are a bit too common so there are more GPS status apps
that are free & ad free than we can find in a single search. For example
https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gpstest
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.binarytoys.ulysse
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.emacberry.gpslogger
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pierwiastek.gpsdataplus
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.location.gps.gnsslogger
(any others?)

And as before these offer in-app purchases (but may be functional without)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flashlight.lite.gps.logger
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ilyabogdanovich.geotracker
(any others that don't have ads but which may offer unnecessary purchases?)

Please note I tried to remove apps that just listed GPS status but which
didn't show a navmap which was what the original thread had asked about.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pierwiastek.gpsdataplus
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.damsoft.gps_status
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.jpcheney.gpsstatus
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chartcross.gpstest
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.stgrdev.gpssatellitesviewer
(lots more, too many to list)

The caveat is I haven't tested any of these (because the original FOSS app
works well) but if you know of any other or better free similar GPS status
apps (that don't ask for money & that don't have ads) please list them here.

What other GPS status apps do you like which are free & advertisement free?

[Andy Burns]

paul wrote:

> It's different if it's not simply an audacious copy of an existing FOSS app.
> Is it?

If there was a screenshot of the FOSS app, I might be able to say.

Does the FOSS app differentiate visually between GPS, GLONASS, Galileo
and BeiDou satellites?

[paul]

Andy Burns wrote on 10.05.2021 20:33

> If there was a screenshot of the FOSS app, I might be able to say.

The one thing I do not do is pick bad apps.

Every app I listed has multiple representative screenshots in the URL list I
already provided but here it is again for the F-Droid FOSS SatStat app.
https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/

These are the representative screenshots at that URL:
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/01.png
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/02.png
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/03.png
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/04.png
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/05.png
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/06.png
https://f-droid.org/repo/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/en-US/phoneScreenshots/07.png

> Does the FOSS app differentiate visually between GPS, GLONASS, Galileo
> and BeiDou satellites?

Dunno what you need but that first screenshot above clearly shows GPS, SBAS,
GLONASS & Bedou graphs doesn't it?

And here's the guy's web site: https://mvglasow.gitlab.io/satstat/ which
contains the description, documentation, wiki, source code, etc.

There are other web sites of his with more detailed information if you want
https://gitlab.com/mvglasow/satstat
https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat

I suspect many of the similar apps on Google Play are simply copies of the
FOSS apps found on F-Droid. Why reward a guy who simply copies F-Droid open
source code and then he tries to sell you ads and add ons on Google Play?

[Andy Burns]

paul wrote:

> I suspect many of the similar apps on Google Play are simply copies of the
> FOSS apps found on F-Droid.

Does look remarkably similar

> Why reward a guy who simply copies F-Droid open
> source code and then he tries to sell you ads and add ons on Google Play?

Because I encountered the (free version of) the paid app first.

[paul]

Andy Burns wrote on 10.05.2021 22:55

>> I suspect many of the similar apps on Google Play are simply copies of the
>> FOSS apps found on F-Droid.
>
> Does look remarkably similar

The one thing I do not do is pick bad apps. >:-)

Thank you for understanding my key point which is what seems to happen time
and again which is that a good FOSS app exists and then people recompile
that free source code and they then add advertisements to it - and then put
it on Google Play - which - if they do that - should not be encouraged
(IMHO).

It's a tax on the ignorant people who can't find an app outside Google Play.
}:)

>
>> Why reward a guy who simply copies F-Droid open
>> source code and then he tries to sell you ads and add ons on Google Play?
>
> Because I encountered the (free version of) the paid app first.

Like you, I'm not omnipotent of all the best apps (which is why I often ask
here for what other people think are the best apps).

What I do to _try_ to cull the initial list of the best apps is I run a
search that stands the best chance of finding the best apps earlier rather
than later.

Usually I start with the F-Droid repository for the obvious reasons
(although I use Aurora Droid because it has a far better search engine) and
usually if F-Droid fails me (which often happens) then I move on to Google
Play (although I use Aurora Store searches instead of Google Play for a
whole bunch of very good reasons not the least of which the search engine in
Google Play paradoxically is the worst of any app store bar none other than
iOS).

That search eliminates Google apps from the start (although it doesn't have
to - that's just my preference) and it eliminates all payware from the
start.

I also eliminate all logins that aren't necessary (eg a login to an email
app is required but a login for a weather app is not required) and I look at
the privacy and functionality on an app by app basis (which can get tricky).

Depending on what I find in those initial searches then I can loosen up or
tighten the filters but an initial search would normally look for apps with
millions of downloads and over 4.5 ratings which are free, ad free, and GSF
free.

If I find nothing I loosen up the criteria bit by bit but if I find apps I
test them out first and give them a one-strike-you're-out chance to stay on
my homescreen. The first obnoxious thing it does (like require a login for a
flashlight app, as an example) it's out.

In this case of SatStat the FOSS app hasn't struck out yet which means it
works as advertised without any obnoxities. Of course maybe some of the apps
that are on Google Play might be better - which is why I listed them prior.

https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gpstest
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.binarytoys.ulysse
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.basicairdata.graziano.gpslogger
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.emacberry.gpslogger
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pierwiastek.gpsdataplus
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.location.gps.gnsslogger

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flashlight.lite.gps.logger
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ilyabogdanovich.geotracker
(any others?)

Sometimes I wish we could assign to a handful of people the task of testing
just _one_ app in a list of about a dozen and have them report on that one
app.

That way we could all benefit from the test of all the best apps but only
have to test one of those apps to garner that benefit on this newsgroup.

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Updating a side note on the recent thread about map expiry dates
> here's a separate pullout of free GPS status apps without ads.
>
> The fundamental open source app (as far as I know) started as this.
> https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/

Thanks, that's moderately interesting to me. I like the idea of a GPS
tool that doesn't rely on Google data (and doesn't communicate to Google
my location). In practice, I'll probably almost never use it. Even when
I consult maps, I'm not in the habit of using real time location
plotting.

Playing around with SatStat, I have a question. I've put my phone down
on a table (so basically motionless) next to a window to get sky view
for the satelites. Latitude and Longitude are reported with five digits
after the decimal place and watching it for a few minutes the last two
digits fluctuate. Okay, that gives me some sense of error there. Four
decimal digits is ~11 meters square, five ~1.1 meters.

https://xkcd.com/2170/

For four digits has "You're pointing to a particular corner of a house"

For five digits has "You're pointing to a specific person in a room, but
since you didn't include datum information, we can't tell who"

Most of the time this app is consistent to 4 decimal digits. The deltas
look like +/- 0.00005. I see there is also an "Error" value which has
been showing 1 to 5 meters as the value. 5 would seem to correspond to
+/- 0.00005 in lat/long.

Seperately there's an Altitude, which fluctuated between 18 and 125
meters for quite a while, but seems to have narrowed in to 47 to 59
now. That's a bit more than +/- 5 meters, but fits +/- 6m.

The altitude is something that most interests me, since it is the
hardest thing to get from just plain maps. Even topopgraphic maps
require a lot of interpolation for altitude.

In theory GPS can be +/- 0.3 meters. Is the level of accuracy I'm seeing
typical of a phone? I've noticed vehicles and buildings with big (maybe
20 to 40cm diameter, it's hard to be sure from a distance) GPS units.
I'm guessing that the larger size is to accommodate bigger, more
accurate antennas. Is that correct?

The app reports I'm getting GPS, GL0NASS, and Beidou satellite reads
(and nothing from SBAS). SBAS, I gather would provide a way to improve
accuracy. Does this app always show an SBAS section, or only when the
device is capable of receiving those signals?

Elijah
------
also notes the azimuth fluctates between 86 and 87 degress

[John B.]

See
https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy
--
Cheers,

John B.

[paul]

Eli the Bearded wrote on 10.05.2021 23:00

>> The fundamental open source app (as far as I know) started as this.
>> https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/
>
> Thanks, that's moderately interesting to me. I like the idea of a GPS
> tool that doesn't rely on Google data (and doesn't communicate to Google
> my location).

Thank you for letting me know you appreciated the hints as my goal on Usenet
is to volunteer to help as many people as I can (as they also help me).

The thread this one is an offshoot of asked for offline maps that displayed
your location which this app does perfectly well as far as I can tell.

Just be advised the maps aren't offline by default. You have to check a box
in the settings for them to be offline. The default offline map folder is
/storage/emulated/0/org.mapsforge/maps (although you can change that)
You can press a button to download the desired maps for offline use.

Also note that this app seems to be aware when other apps get a GPS fix
on your location so that may be a nice feature as it notifies you of that.

> Is the level of accuracy I'm seeing typical of a phone?

The link someone else posted says "GPS-enabled smartphones are typically
accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky"
https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

That referenced "Open-sky GNSS accuracy with smartphones has often been
claimed to be about 5 meters... In this lab, with over one thousand
participants in one hundred countries, the measured mean accuracy,
remarkably, came to 4.9 meters."
https://www.ion.org/publications/abstract.cfm?articleID=13079

So my answer is going to be 5 meters for a typical GPS only smartphone.

> Does this app always show an SBAS section, or only when the
> device is capable of receiving those signals?

I don't know the answer but on the developer's webpage is an SBAS section
https://mvglasow.gitlab.io/satstat/
Specifically in this screenshot
https://mvglasow.gitlab.io/satstat/screenshots/satstat-gps.png

His app running on my phone shows an SBAS section on that same screen
but the SBAS may be phone and area dependent for all that I know.

Maybe someone else has better answers for you on those questions?

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Eli the Bearded wrote on 10.05.2021 23:00

>> Thanks, that's moderately interesting to me. I like the idea of a GPS
>> tool that doesn't rely on Google data (and doesn't communicate to Google
>> my location).

> Just be advised the maps aren't offline by default.

I didn't even look at the map tab. I also saw that the map provider was
(apparently) not Google.

> Also note that this app seems to be aware when other apps get a GPS fix
> on your location so that may be a nice feature as it notifies you of that.

I keep "Location" disabled 95% of the time. And except for testing (as
with this program) 100% in my home neighborhood.

>> Is the level of accuracy I'm seeing typical of a phone?
> The link someone else posted says "GPS-enabled smartphones are typically
> accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky"
> https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

So, "yes".

>> Does this app always show an SBAS section, or only when the
>> device is capable of receiving those signals?
> I don't know the answer but on the developer's webpage is an SBAS section
> https://mvglasow.gitlab.io/satstat/

Elsewhere on the site he implies modern sensors report multiple
providers.

> His app running on my phone shows an SBAS section on that same screen
> but the SBAS may be phone and area dependent for all that I know.

After a few minutes with Wikipedia, I know a few things. SBAS in general
is a less global signal, with just regional coverage. WAAS is a SBAS
provider that covers the continental United States (which includes me)
and most of Canada and Alaska, plus some of Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System

But that still leaves me a long way from really understanding it.

Elijah
------
but whose phone spec says "GPS/GLONASS/Beidou/Galileo" and not SBAS...

[paul]

Eli the Bearded wrote on 13.05.2021 20:14

> I didn't even look at the map tab. I also saw that the map provider was
> (apparently) not Google.

The provider is "mapsforge" which seems to be a "vector map library"
https://osmdroid.github.io/osmdroid/Mapsforge.html\
"MapsForge is a vector map library written in Java with support for Android
and JRE. It works by rendering osm data on demand (on device)."

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapsforge
"mapsforge provides a free, open-source, offline vector map library for
Android and Java-based applications. With the easy to use API you can
build your own map application with just a few lines of code."

It's perhaps (also?) a format?

https://www.androidmaps.co.uk/
"These offline vector maps are generated using extracts of OpenStreetMap
data obtained from Geofabrik and converted to *Mapsforge format* using
the mapfilewriter plugin"

It may even be the map itself.
http://download.mapsforge.org/maps/
http://download.mapsforge.org/maps/world/world.map

I don't know as I never heard about "mapsforge" until I tested this software
so maybe someone who knows more than we do can expound on what mapsforge is.

>> Also note that this app seems to be aware when other apps get a GPS fix
>> on your location so that may be a nice feature as it notifies you of that.
>
> I keep "Location" disabled 95% of the time. And except for testing (as
> with this program) 100% in my home neighborhood.

Yup. I think most of us who know what can be done keep Location off.
I think Location goes on for me maybe, oh, once every few months.

Normally Location is off 99.95% of the time even as cellular is on 99.95%.

> But that still leaves me a long way from really understanding it.

The first time I had heard of SBAS is in this thread so I'm also a long way
off from understanding it - but you and I both looked it up & found similar
information.

As with the rest of Usenet, someone who knows more may expand upon what we
found out (and worse many people who know even less than we do will too!)
--
I'm not afraid to admit what I don't know; it's people who are who scare me.