fumigation?

[bad sector]

I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

[Andy Burns]

bad sector wrote:

> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 15:14:37 +0000, Andy Burns

What's a "relevant tag"?

I see it. If someone posts at the same time they do, I'm lucky if I
don't delete a real post/thread when I delete the spam. Like this
thread.

[Andy Burns]

micky wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> bad sector wrote:
>>
>>> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers
>>
>> I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.
>
> What's a "relevant tag"?

I use thundberbird message filters to add tag #6 to messages coming from
googlegroups (unless it's from someone in a special address book) that
way I don't see it. But if I want to check whether the filters are
working, I can view all messages with tag #6

[Jörg Lorenz]

Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:

>
>
> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
> I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

Here it is absolutely spamfree.

Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

[Wally J]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote

>> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers
>
> I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

It's a big problem lately... hundreds upon hundreds of spams per day...
And getting worse by the day...

When Google won't even let me log into my own email from a VPN, you'd think
that these hundreds upon hundreds of spams would be blocked by Google.
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

I can't fathom how Google's coding is so sophomoric, that it doesn't.
Having built procmail scripts in the olden days, I have never thought that
Google's coders were any good given they simply block everything in email.

But then why can't they block this spam flooding us by hundreds a day?
<https://i.postimg.cc/6pj29c6f/spam01.jpg>
How can even Google's lousy coders be _that_ atrocious? I don't know.

Even I could block that spam (although I only have the likes of Alan Baker,
Snit, Dustin Cook, Rod Speed, and a couple of others in my killfiles).

Why can't Google? (if it's going through them, that is). On this newsgroup,
Frank is the acknowledged leader in nntp headers so maybe he'll chime in.

Unfortunately, there are many hundreds a day now, seemingly from spammers
who want us to watch movies for the most part, or to click their links.

The headers of the few I sampled "appear" to come from Google Groups, but,
of course, headers can be forged - but even so - it's a consistent header.

Many people block Google Groups posts, out of hand, so that's one possible
solution (I only randomly sampled the headers) and it could be that those
headers are injected anyway - so then it's up to the NNTP admins to do it.

For us, if we agree not to use the word "watch" or "movies" in the subject,
that will get some of them, but I think just blocking en masse headers
indicating Google Groups will do the trick.

It's sad that we finally have to implement spam filters to do this though.
Here is just one header out of many hundreds that came in today...

What do folks who know more than I do about headers make of it?

X-Received: by 2002:a37:ad0a:0:b0:77d:ccba:990f with SMTP id
f10-20020a37ad0a000000b0077dccba990fmr385141qkm.8.1701619779751; Sun, 03
Dec 2023 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:aca:1011:0:b0:3b8:950b:6e8c with SMTP id
17-20020aca1011000000b003b8950b6e8cmr1433560oiq.4.1701619779506; Sun, 03
Dec 2023 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Path:
news.mynewsserver.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!1.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <da1978f5-574f-42f0...@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=2a0f:e383:4952:74ab:855a:dfee:749a:6576;
posting-account=cd0JhgoAAACShHBEpPkoEjnWjSQ47bCx
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a0f:e383:4952:74ab:855a:dfee:749a:6576
References: <da1978f5-574f-42f0...@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <aaa508ab-0864-4f0c...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: WATCH! Holiday Twist (2023) FullMovie Free Online Mp4 On
123????????????
From: Derrick Matthews <derrickma...@gmail.com>
Injection-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2023 16:09:39 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 5271
Xref: sewer comp.mobile.android:110187

[Andy Burns]

Wally J wrote:

> Even I could block that spam [...] Why can't Google? (if it's going
> through them, that is).

It's not only going through them, it's coming *from* their users.

> On this newsgroup, Frank is the acknowledged
> leader in nntp headers so maybe he'll chime in.

I have a separate address book called "google whitelist"
I put people in it of I know they're google groups users

I have a message filter that has two rules and two actions

IF "from" ISN'T IN ADDR BOOK "google whitelist"
AND message-id CONTAINS "@googlegroups.com"
THEN mark as read
AND add tag #6

That's thunderbird, I'm sure other clients can do similar

[Wally J]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote

> I use thundberbird message filters to add tag #6 to messages coming from
> googlegroups (unless it's from someone in a special address book) that
> way I don't see it. But if I want to check whether the filters are
> working, I can view all messages with tag #6

There are so many hundreds coming in, and getting worse by the day, that
the process I've used so far (manual select & delete) won't work, as I
almost deleted this thread in that process (which micky also alluded to).

I never thought much of Google's coding skills when it comes to blocking
spam (they just block everything) so I suspect these are not actually
coming from Google Groups (but folks like Frank may know better than I
since he used to run an nntp server for his old company, as I recall).

However... the spam may not be coming from Google Groups at all... as you
can note their injected headers (in my case) are above the PATH: directive.

I suspect the spammers set up an nntp server, and they were able to get
peered, so part of the solution is in the peering groups, such as:
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
(I'm not sure which the canonical peering group is though.)

For individuals like micky who need help setting up filters, there is a
newsgroup just for newsreaders that he can post his questions to.
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers>

And then there are sometimes individual groups for specific newsreaders.
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird>
--
Note I didn't test these urls today so some above urls might not work.

[bad sector]

On 12/3/23 10:59 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:
>>
>>
>> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
>> I guess google really wants to muzzle it.
>
> Here it is absolutely spamfree.
>
> Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
> allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.

[Wally J]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote

>> Even I could block that spam [...] Why can't Google? (if it's going
>> through them, that is).
>
> It's not only going through them, it's coming *from* their users.

Hi Andy,

I'm actually a bit confused by the enormity of this spam coming in...

I'm not so sure, but I readily admit I don't know as much about headers as
people like you or Stan or Frank Slootweg would (hell, I don't even know
how to look up an ivp6 IP address, which these headers seem to be using).

The reason I'm not so sure is that there are hundreds upon hundreds of
them, and even Google's terrible coders wouldn't be _that_ stupid to let
that happen (when I can't even sign into my own email using a VPN anyway).

I'm not sure though, because if it _is_ coming from Google's users, then
Google coders suck more than I thought they did, in terms of spam filters.

NOTE: I think Google's coders on tracking us are brilliant; so my opinion
of Google's coders stems from the way they block too much in my email.

However, I will affirm that it really does not matter to us, as
individuals, where the spam is coming from as we all have to block the spam
based on what is in the headers (or body) alone - which "appear" to be
coming from Google's users.

>> On this newsgroup, Frank is the acknowledged
>> leader in nntp headers so maybe he'll chime in.
>
> I have a separate address book called "google whitelist"
> I put people in it of I know they're google groups users

Yeah. I know how it works. What I'm wondering is why the news servers are
peering this crap. That is really where the fundamental filters should be.

Why does it show up in a Google Groups listing, for example?
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

You'd think Google would filter that spam out, wouldn't you?
(I don't understand why it's in that URL ouput because it should not be!)

> I have a message filter that has two rules and two actions
>
> IF "from" ISN'T IN ADDR BOOK "google whitelist"
> AND message-id CONTAINS "@googlegroups.com"
> THEN mark as read
> AND add tag #6

This is great! People like you can help those who are on TB!
It should be cut-and-paste for them.

I think Vanguard is on Dialog, so he can help the dialog users too.
Best is if he provides a script that others can just cut-and-paste.

Both have fantastic filtering capabilities, albeit some are cryptic syntax.

> That's thunderbird, I'm sure other clients can do similar

I'm well aware of filters and I'm as well aware that every newsreader has
its own method for implementing them - but that information above is useful
for folks like micky who probably would need help.

As for me, I can filter on anything as my filters use regex methods.
It's just a PITA to set it up.

Did you ever set up procmail filters, Andy?
My setup is like that (not the same, but similar in form & function).

It's a PITA.
It's not as easy as just deleting anything that comes from Joerg.

But you have a good starting point which is (pseudocode)
If it's not in the whitelist, and
if the message-id contains "@googlegroups.com"
then delete it

My newsreader scripts don't have a whitelist though, so for me, if the
message-id has "@googlegroups.com", then I will be wiping it out.

Is there anyone on the Android newsgroup who posts from Google Groups?

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 15:49:22 +0000, Andy Burns

Very interesting. Copy to a friend who uses Thunderbird.

[Wally J]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

> Very interesting. Copy to a friend who uses Thunderbird.

Hi micky,

To help you (and others like you) out...

1. Best to point your friends on TB to the TB Usenet newsgroup.
alt.comp.software.thunderbird
They will answer TB & BetterBird filtering questions.

One set of web-searchable permanent auto-archives are here:
<http://alt.comp.software.thunderbird.narkive.com>

2. And if you're really using Forte as your newsreader...
I think Ken Blake uses Forte so you can ask him for help.

I think this is the group for the forte newsreader questions.
alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent (if you can believe that)
There are other groups with "forte" in the name though.

The very top-most post is "Google spam" in fact, just now:
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent>
From: John Larkin
Dec 2, 2023, 9:53:45 PM (16 hours ago)
Does anyone know the proper filter expression to kill all
usenet posts from google groups?

3. There's also a Usenet newsgroup for all newsreader support.
news.software.readers
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers>

Frank and Vanguard often post to that newsgroup to help others.
--
I didn't doublecheck all the URLs but they should be close.

[Frank Slootweg]

This has been and is being discussed at length in the abuse and News
admin groups.

The concensus is that Google isn't even aware of the problems and
doesn't care about/for their Google Groups to Usenet gateway. So we can
scream and yell all we want, Google isn't listening.

The 'best' Google does is that if someone gets through to them somehow
about abuse in a particular group, they make that group read-only,
killing not only the spam (in only *that* group), but also killing any
legit Google Groups posters in that group. Did I already say that Google
doesn't care?

News admins are trying to filter the spam while keeping the legit
posts (from GG users), but it's an endless job.

In the old days, we would issue an UDP (Usenet Death Penalty), but an
UDP doesn't work against some entity which isn't listening and doesn't
care.

--
Frank Slootweg, ex (part time) News admin in some tiny 150K employee company.

[Wally J]

bad sector <forg...@invalid.net> wrote

>> Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
>> allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.
>
> Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
> and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
> concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
> as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
> be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
> other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
> spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.

It's worse than I had originally thought it was gonna be.

I wrote to the folks on the peering newsgroups who are
convinced this is coming from Google servers unfortunately.
*Who is peering all these spams ostensibly from Google Groups?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering/c/AgrNUeZuAkw>

The problem is the following, as they seem to see it.
1. The spam is coming from Google servers
2. The peers are nntp servers such as news.highwinds-media.com

That's bad.
a. You can't ever get anyone in Mountainview to care
b. Same with Highwinds (they love spammers who pay money)

Still, the problem has to be solved in this order:
1. Google
2. Peers
3. Users

As users, the news.software.nntp folks told me this header
can't be forged so it's something we personally can filter
on the "Injection-Info:" header, which they say can't be
forged.

I tried forging it but I got the error each time of:
"Posting article failed: Can't set system Injection-Info: header"

That means we can individually filter on this header alone:
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com;

I hate doing things that brainless as to filter out ALL posts
from Google Groups, so I'm hoping there is a way to get a hold
of someone in Mountainview by phone or email who gives a hoot.

Is there?

[Wally J]

Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

> The 'best' Google does is that if someone gets through to them somehow
> about abuse in a particular group, they make that group read-only,
> killing not only the spam (in only *that* group), but also killing any
> legit Google Groups posters in that group. Did I already say that Google
> doesn't care?

Hi Frank,

I had posted my query earlier to n.a.p & to n.s.n, where the likes of Marco
Moock & Grant Taylor (both of whom you know well), told me the situation.

*Who is peering all these spams ostensibly from Google Groups?*

<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp/c/p4NgdFEMeIU>

As I see it, the problem can only be solved in this order:
1. Google (who is nearly impossible to communicate with)
2. Peers (like highwinds, the assholes that they are)
3. Users

Starting in order...

I have had success with getting Google to fix Maps (but they care about
that product) but since I happen to live relatively near Mountainview,
maybe I can pay them a visit?

Do those groups you speak of have a _contact_ at Google I can try to reach?

[Wally J]

Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote

> As I see it, the problem can only be solved in this order:
> 1. Google (who is nearly impossible to communicate with)
> 2. Peers (like highwinds, the assholes that they are)
> 3. Users

I had a long conversation with the folks on the nntp & peering ngs.
They say Google doesn't care. Nor do the peers like Highwinds & Giganews.
So it may be up to each of us.

But that's crazy.
One person should write the filter (who knows the tool inside & out).
And the rest of the people should just copy it and use it.

Here's a web site trying to do something about it to help users implement
the filter since it's best if one person implements it & the others copy.
<http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/index.html>

[Carlos E. R.]

Filtering out all of Google Groups locally is trivial.

Just delete mail or delete subthreads (your choice) when
User-Agent is "G2/1.0".

Filtering only the spam is hard: clients like Thunderbird lack spam
filters on the nntp side. You can do filters to remove spam that matches
some pattern, but not changing patterns.

Servers like News.Individual.NET are filtering out the Google spam (or
most of it), with a small delay, so moving to those servers is other
thing that users can do.


But IMO, the best thing to do would be to disconnect Usenet servers from
Google, so that Google can not send nor receive from Usenet. That might
force them to investigate and talk. Might. If they don't, who cares.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Allodoxaphobia]

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 16:59:07 +0100, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:
>>
>> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
>> I guess google really wants to muzzle it.
>
> Here it is absolutely spamfree.
>
> Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
> allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

+1 => individual.net

I did not know this ng was being spammed until I saw today's posts.

[Frank Slootweg]

Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-04 08:57, Wally J wrote:
> > Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote
> >
> >> As I see it, the problem can only be solved in this order:
> >> 1. Google (who is nearly impossible to communicate with)
> >> 2. Peers (like highwinds, the assholes that they are)
> >> 3. Users
> >
> > I had a long conversation with the folks on the nntp & peering ngs.
> > They say Google doesn't care. Nor do the peers like Highwinds & Giganews.
> > So it may be up to each of us.
> >
> > But that's crazy.
> > One person should write the filter (who knows the tool inside & out).
> > And the rest of the people should just copy it and use it.

The News admins of the well-managed servers already made tools and are
sharing them amongst themselves. The main method used is NoCeM (No See
'Em).

'The NoCeM FAQ'
<http://www.cm.org/faq.html>

> > Here's a web site trying to do something about it to help users implement
> > the filter since it's best if one person implements it & the others copy.
> > <http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/index.html>
>
> Filtering out all of Google Groups locally is trivial.
>
> Just delete mail or delete subthreads (your choice) when
> User-Agent is "G2/1.0".

Exactly. While the News admins are trying to do their bit, we users
can do our bit, by filtering any remaining Google Groups posts and - if
wanted - whitelisting the good (GG) guys.

> Filtering only the spam is hard: clients like Thunderbird lack spam
> filters on the nntp side. You can do filters to remove spam that matches
> some pattern, but not changing patterns.
>
> Servers like News.Individual.NET are filtering out the Google spam (or
> most of it), with a small delay, so moving to those servers is other
> thing that users can do.

AFAIK, News.Individual.NET uses the above mentioned NoCeM method.

> But IMO, the best thing to do would be to disconnect Usenet servers from
> Google, so that Google can not send nor receive from Usenet. That might
> force them to investigate and talk. Might. If they don't, who cares.

Sofar, the consensus amongst the News admins is that they care enough
about the legit Google Groups posters to continue filtering the (GG
originated) spam from their servers.

[miea akhalifo]

On Sunday, 3 December 2023 at 20:12:12 UTC+5, bad sector wrote:
> I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
> I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ykecnuCej3E

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ykecnuCej3E

[Frank Slootweg]

No. One of the persons in those groups worked for Google, but even he
has given up trying to get Google to respond/act.

See my other response (to Carlos and indirectly to you) for what the
News admins are doing and how.

[Carlos E. R.]

I will read about it later, but now I'm going for my siesta.
There is a caveat with Thunderbird:

There is a delay till News.Individual.NET deletes the google spam, and
often some spam is read by Thunderbird and displays. Sometime later, on
clicking on some other spam post, Thunderbird says that the post can not
be downloaded because it was expired, and offers to purge all expired
posts in the current group.


Also, this may have an effect on my desktop machine, where News are
downloaded by fetchnews to a local cache, and I have no idea if
deletions upstream will propagate.

>
>> But IMO, the best thing to do would be to disconnect Usenet servers from
>> Google, so that Google can not send nor receive from Usenet. That might
>> force them to investigate and talk. Might. If they don't, who cares.
>
> Sofar, the consensus amongst the News admins is that they care enough
> about the legit Google Groups posters to continue filtering the (GG
> originated) spam from their servers.

I can understand that.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Frank Slootweg]

Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-04 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

> > The News admins of the well-managed servers already made tools and are
> > sharing them amongst themselves. The main method used is NoCeM (No See
> > 'Em).
> >
> > 'The NoCeM FAQ'
> > <http://www.cm.org/faq.html>

[...]

> > AFAIK, News.Individual.NET uses the above mentioned NoCeM method.
>
> I will read about it later, but now I'm going for my siesta.
> There is a caveat with Thunderbird:
>
> There is a delay till News.Individual.NET deletes the google spam, and
> often some spam is read by Thunderbird and displays. Sometime later, on
> clicking on some other spam post, Thunderbird says that the post can not
> be downloaded because it was expired, and offers to purge all expired
> posts in the current group.
>
>
> Also, this may have an effect on my desktop machine, where News are
> downloaded by fetchnews to a local cache, and I have no idea if
> deletions upstream will propagate.

I use tin as my newsreader and Hamster as my local 'cache' and do not
have this problem. But Hamster is a real news-server, so probably
Hamster hides the NIN expiration issue from tin.

I guess you could install WINE and Hamster on top of that! :-)

But seriously: What local cache do you use? Leafnode[2]? slrnpull?
Other?

[...]

[Jörg Lorenz]

Pure conspiracy theory.

[Wally J]

Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

>> Do those groups you speak of have a _contact_ at Google I can try to reach?
>
> No. One of the persons in those groups worked for Google, but even he
> has given up trying to get Google to respond/act.

Thanks. And yes, I communicated with Grant Taylor who used to work at
Google. I have a few friends also who retired early due to Google. At the
moment, everyone I knew well stopped working at Google though. So I only
have their main contact number, and nothing better than a local call.

Grant suggested (and I quote) "If you want to get an individual person to
rattle Google's cage, try to get someone like Tavis Ormandy of Google's
Project Zero" so I will give them a call today, but I won't hold my breath.

The only three things I've ever had even a teeny tiny bit of success with
Google on a personal level is Rod Speed's murder email, changing Usenet
URIs to the dejagoogle archives and fixing local Google Maps routing.

> See my other response (to Carlos and indirectly to you) for what the
> News admins are doing and how.

Yeah, I saw that. I see everything you post to this newsgroup, Frank. So
you can assume if you posted it, I'll see it. I like what they're doing.

The spam on the Android newsgroup has made it unusable without filtering.
<https://i.postimg.cc/6pj29c6f/spam01.jpg>

So I appreciate that you opened this thread, and posted good info like

'The NoCeM FAQ' <http://www.cm.org/faq.html>

On the web there is this URL that says it allows you to
"Contact Owners and Managers of Google Usenet"
*Google Usenet* (google...@googlegroups.com)
<https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>

There is a settings-gear-icon image at top right, which has the option to:
"Send feedback to Google"
1. Tell us what prompted this feedback.
2. A screenshot will help us better understand your feedback.

Here's a screenshot of that which I recommend others do right now.
<https://i.postimg.cc/k462x02X/spam02.jpg>

In addition, there's this generic "starting point" phone number:
<https://about.google/intl/ALL_us/contact-google/>
650-253-0000 (googleplex automated human)
Which only works "Monday to Friday from 8 am to 5 pm PST".
You're saying "It's something else" a few times.
Then you "Continue to hold for the next available Agent" human.

While I was waiting, I went to see if there's a contact on Wikipedia.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups>
Nothing useful there except the DejaNews history we already know.

Still waiting, I looked up "how to contact google for real"
<https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/how-to-contact-google-support>
But they only said what I knew e.g., "Google doesn't want to talk to you".

Still waiting... I searched s'more and found other garbage such as this.
<https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet>
Or this "chat support" link:
<https://support.google.com/chatsupport/?hl=en>
But all it has is a single article on "Add a Google Group to a space".

Still waiting...

[Carlos E. R.]

Leafnode, the development version.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[candycanearter07]

Interesting idea.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

[Frank Slootweg]

Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

[...]

> > See my other response (to Carlos and indirectly to you) for what the
> > News admins are doing and how.
>
> Yeah, I saw that. I see everything you post to this newsgroup, Frank. So
> you can assume if you posted it, I'll see it. I like what they're doing.
>
> The spam on the Android newsgroup has made it unusable without filtering.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/6pj29c6f/spam01.jpg>

Huh? Doesn't paganini.bofh.team do any filtering yet!? I use
News.Individual.Net and get no (GG) spam in this group. (I do filter on
users with @gmail.com addresses (to filter other spam), but not filter
on postings from GG.)

> So I appreciate that you opened this thread, and posted good info like
> 'The NoCeM FAQ' <http://www.cm.org/faq.html>

[...]

[Wally J]

Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

>> The spam on the Android newsgroup has made it unusable without filtering.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/6pj29c6f/spam01.jpg>
>
> Huh? Doesn't paganini.bofh.team do any filtering yet!? I use
> News.Individual.Net and get no (GG) spam in this group. (I do filter on
> users with @gmail.com addresses (to filter other spam), but not filter
> on postings from GG.)

Hi Frank,
(btw... I'm _still_ waiting for Google to pick up - it's been 92 minutes!)

While I appreciate your post, you have to realize I care about everyone.
Not just me. So spam on the newsgroup is spam on the newsgroup. Period.

It's one of the reasons I act _differently_ than most people who post to
this newsgroup, Frank - because I'm posting trying to help EVERYONE.

Whether or not I filter it out or whether or not my incoming news server
filters it out - it's still gonna affect someone on this newsgroup.

And this amount of spam is just impossible to fathom.
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android> engine.
BTW, that has nothing to do with any nntp news server. It's all Google. :)

However... to your question about the bofh server's filtering...

The natural assumption you realistically assumed was that I use the same
server to post as what I use to read my news, which is a reasonable
assumption on your part - but which I never do - for privacy reasons.

That is, if I post using Paganini, I never read using Paganini.
It's a basic privacy thing of not returning to the scene of the crime. :)

There are actually good reasons for that basic use model of using different
nntp servers for different tasks (all related to privacy) just as I use a
different web browser for every task too; but suffice to respond to your
query that I have no idea if Ivo Gandolfo <use...@bofh.team> filters
out the Google Groups Usenet spam - as I never read nntp using his server.

Nothing I do is by accident.

If I post using a news server, then they know a _lot_ about me from my
posts, but if I _also_ read using that same news server, they know more.

If I just read from a variety of news servers, then they only know what I
read but not what I post (where you will read far more than you post).

I can't fault you for having assumed I do what everyone else blindly does.
My nature is to do what makes sense - not what is the easiest thing to do.
--
Note: That's what irks me so much about people who leave their Android
phone set up at the defaults. They're like sheep blindly led to slaughter.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-12-04 20:16, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote
> [...]
>>> See my other response (to Carlos and indirectly to you) for what the
>>> News admins are doing and how.
>>
>> Yeah, I saw that. I see everything you post to this newsgroup, Frank. So
>> you can assume if you posted it, I'll see it. I like what they're doing.
>>
>> The spam on the Android newsgroup has made it unusable without filtering.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/6pj29c6f/spam01.jpg>
>
> Huh? Doesn't paganini.bofh.team do any filtering yet!? I use
> News.Individual.Net and get no (GG) spam in this group. (I do filter on
> users with @gmail.com addresses (to filter other spam), but not filter
> on postings from GG.)

LOL.

Arlen will not use News.Individual.Net. He would have to pay on
internet, he would be identified, oh the horror! :-D

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 13:38:42 -0400, Wally J

Thanks a lot.

[Wally J]

"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

> He would have to pay on internet, he would be identified, oh the horror!

Hi Carlos,

It seems you need some heart-felt basic advice...

First of all, privacy isn't something an intelligent person makes fun of.
Secondly, if you're an adult, your arguments should be somewhat consistent.

For example, these are your own words just today to Jeorg about RCS:
"We don't pay for receiving anything.
Not even phone calls (except on roaming)."

Please be consistent next time.
If you're going to make fun of me for doing what you're doing, then at
least put a signature in that says you're appling rules only to others.

Not to yourself.
--
The problem with Usenet, as opposed to working in the Silicon Valley, is
everyone in teh Silicon Valley is extremely smart and very well educated.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-12-05 06:47, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> He would have to pay on internet, he would be identified, oh the horror!
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> It seems you need some heart-felt basic advice...
>
> First of all, privacy isn't something an intelligent person makes fun of.
> Secondly, if you're an adult, your arguments should be somewhat consistent.
>
> For example, these are your own words just today to Jeorg about RCS:
> "We don't pay for receiving anything.
> Not even phone calls (except on roaming)."
>
> Please be consistent next time.
> If you're going to make fun of me for doing what you're doing, then at
> least put a signature in that says you're appling rules only to others.
>
> Not to yourself.

It is your way of privacy, not most people way of privacy.
I'm consistent.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Wally J]

"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

> It is your way of privacy, not most people way of privacy.
> I'm consistent.

Please don't try to make fun of me simply because I'm intelligent, Carlos.

I'm sorry for saying you were inconsistent because I had assumed you linked
creating an account (which is the loss of privacy) to paying for Usenet
(which is harder to do without creating an account & using a credit card).

It has always been the case, since the dawn of time, that the dumber
someone is, the easier it is to sell them something they can get for free.

Conversely, particularly with Internet services, the smarter someone is,
the easier it is for them to get things for free that others pay for.

For example, my Internet is free at my home - because I get it from miles
away on a tower that broadcasts free Internet as a service to the people.

But that means I have to be intelligent about setting up my Wi-Fi radios.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg> Cellular repeater & home Wi-Fi APs

Surprisingly, there are people out there who can't figure out how to set up
a radio to pick up the Internet from another radio that is five miles away.
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg> Typical range is about 10 miles

Heck, there are people who can't even set up a bridge so that they can pick
up a router's access point hundreds of yards across the stables in a barn.
<https://i.postimg.cc/6QJqK6Cj/desktop02.jpg> Desktop MikroTik WISP radios

Not only do I get my Internet for free (from more than five miles away),
but I get my 5G Samsung Galaxy Android phone for free also (well, I had to
pay the 10% sales tax on the MSRP & I had to buy a case & sd card for it).

My point is that intelligent people don't pay for what they can get for
free, and you can rest assured this Internet post doesn't cost me money.

It costs you.
But not me.

Please don't try to make fun of me simply because I'm intelligent, Carlos.
--
The more ignorant people are, the easier it is to sell them things.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-12-05 20:30, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> It is your way of privacy, not most people way of privacy.
>> I'm consistent.
>
> Please don't try to make fun of me simply because I'm intelligent, Carlos.

You are not the only intelligent people here, Arlen. No matter how many
times you insist that other people are dumb. We aren't, we just make
different choices than you.

And I said nothing about your intelligence (this time at least).

...

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Newyana2]

"bad sector" <forg...@invalid.net> wrote

| Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
| and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
| concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
| as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
| be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
| other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
| spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.
|

That would be a lot of work for Google. Usenet is dying,
anyway. And half the people still here are so old and cranky
that they just argue all day, or they ask questions to have
company. I think the main problem is that younger people
don't want free, open services. It makes them feel "unsafe"
if they can't upvote, downvote and complain to moderators.
So it's gradually dying out as people simply age out of it. Have
you ever tried to explain to a 40-year-old, much less a
20-year-old, what Usenet is?

For years there was virtually no spam in Microsoft programming
groups, even when MS disowned them. But it's started showing
up since E-S dropped them. There just aren't enough people
still interested and able to access the groups. That seems to
draw the spammers.

[Frank Slootweg]

Not only that, he would have to pay some 800 Euros per year to
accomodate all his nyms.

[Wally J]

Newyana2 <Newy...@invalid.nospam> wrote

> Usenet is dying, anyway.

While that may be true, what I liked about DejaGoogle was that I can find
something useful that was said before Usenet dies out for good in the end.
<https://groups.google.com/g/{put.name.of.archived.usenet.newsgroup.here}>

That search engine is useful to everyone because:
a. It doesn't require an account or paying for retention of articles
b. It works for everyone (even your 99 year old mother)
c. It only needs a web browser (which everyone has), and not a newsreader

The problem with all this spam from Google servers is that even finding the
URI to an article posted _today_ is a mess of wading through that garbage.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yxpSLVrr/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>

I spent hours on the phone trying to communicate with Mountainview on this.
<https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg>

What I suggest everyone do is plug that image into a complaint over here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/k462x02X/spam02.jpg

Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.

Please do this today:

1. Go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
2. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that web page
3. "Send feedback to Google"
Box 1: "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
Box 2: "A screenshot will help us better understand your feedback."

Optionally, you can do the deluxe version of sending feedback to Google.
A. In tab 1, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
B. Take a screenshot & save it to a date-related name you can easily find.
C. In tab 2, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
D. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that "about" web page
E. In the first box "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
tell Google the problem in a way that Google 'may' care about.

For example, tell them something like "Your Google Groups servers
are allowing obvious off-topic rampant spamming by few individuals
<https://groups.google.com>
such that your own Google Groups Server Search Engine
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
is now useless because a few users are abusing your Google servers."

F. In the second box upload that screenshot of the first tab.
G. Press the "Send" button on the bottom right of that second tab.
--
No one person can influence Google but together, maybe we all can.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/6/23 5:43 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
> "bad sector" <forg...@invalid.net> wrote
>
> | Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
> | and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
> | concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
> | as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
> | be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
> | other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
> | spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.
> |
>
> That would be a lot of work for Google. Usenet is dying,
> anyway. And half the people still here are so old and cranky
> that they just argue all day, or they ask questions to have
> company. I think the main problem is that younger people
> don't want free, open services. It makes them feel "unsafe"
> if they can't upvote, downvote and complain to moderators.

If true, and I think it probably is, that's incredibly sad. The world
holds more possibilities now than ever before, and the little idiots are
deliberately limiting themselves. "Safety" is an illusion and is pretty
much dependent on luck, although preparation helps a lot.

> So it's gradually dying out as people simply age out of it. Have
> you ever tried to explain to a 40-year-old, much less a
> 20-year-old, what Usenet is?

I've been skiing for the last 35 years. 6-minute conversations with
strangers on the lift. I never found a person who knew what usenet was.
I don't ask any more. My usenet 'friends' migrated to Facebook and
then just fell off the edge.

> For years there was virtually no spam in Microsoft programming
> groups, even when MS disowned them. But it's started showing
> up since E-S dropped them. There just aren't enough people
> still interested and able to access the groups. That seems to
> draw the spammers.

The purpose of spam MUST be simple vandalism; we see it in various
posters who simply want to stir up trouble. Same as trash in the
forests and graffiti everywhere.


--
Cheers, Bev
It only takes 2 men to tile a bathroom
if you slice them thinly enough.

[Wally J]

"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

> No matter how many
> times you insist that other people are dumb. We aren't, we just make
> different choices than you.

All I ask of you, Carlos, is to stop trying to insult me.

It's not the choices people make that show their IQ.
It's how they logically reason given the salient facts.

Take the example of the typical iKook, Carlos.
a. They claim lower total cost of ownership, for example,
simply Apple will buy back a recent model iPhone, if,
they use that buyback "credit" to buy another iPhone.
b. Yet they ignore he huge costs they incur buying what
most Android owners don't even need to purchase.
c. And they limit the comparison to only expensive Androids
(where, let's be clear, my free Android phone can do far
more app functionality than any iPhone ever sold).

What shows their low IQ, Carlos, isn't their choices, Carlos.
It's the fact that they can't form a sensibly logical choice.

Worse, when confronted with the pertinent logical facts, Carlos.
They make endless excuses for their lack of comprehensive skills.

Like you do, Carlos.

All I ask of you, Carlos, is to stop trying to insult me.
--
I will treat you as you treat me - I'm a mirror of your posts.

[Wally J]

Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

> Not only that, he would have to pay some 800 Euros per year to
> accomodate all his nyms.

If it takes you more than ten seconds to figure out my posts, Frank, then
you're not even close to as smart as I have given you credit for being.

BTW, I treat you as you treat me.
--
Usenet is water under the bridge. Act civilly to me & I'll repay in kind.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-12-06 20:46, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
>> No matter how many
>> times you insist that other people are dumb. We aren't, we just make
>> different choices than you.
>
> All I ask of you, Carlos, is to stop trying to insult me.

I am not insulting you.

Ignoring the rest of your post.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

:-)

Actually, news.individual.net doesn't care what name you present in the
from field, he can change it as often as he likes, with a single
account. But that account would be identified, and we could complain to
the administrator about his name shifting. Or the administrator might
notice on this own and block the behaviour.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 2023-12-06 17:21, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/6/23 5:43 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
>> "bad sector" <forg...@invalid.net> wrote

...

>> So it's gradually dying out as people simply age out of it. Have
>> you ever tried to explain to a 40-year-old, much less a
>> 20-year-old, what Usenet is?
>
> I've been skiing for the last 35 years.  6-minute conversations with
> strangers on the lift.  I never found a person who knew what usenet was.
>  I don't ask any more.  My usenet 'friends' migrated to Facebook and
> then just fell off the edge.
>
>>    For years there was virtually no spam in Microsoft programming
>> groups, even when MS disowned them. But it's started showing
>> up since E-S dropped them. There just aren't enough people
>> still interested and able to access the groups. That seems to
>> draw the spammers.
>
> The purpose of spam MUST be simple vandalism;  we see it in various
> posters who simply want to stir up trouble.  Same as trash in the
> forests and graffiti everywhere.

Is it spam on Usenet proper, or spam sent to google groups, which
happens to be connected to Usenet?

There is a difference.

New posters come to Google Groups.

Does any spammer, who are trying to profit in some manner, post to
Usenet proper?

The spammers on Usenet proper are probably old farts as we are.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[candycanearter07]

On 12/6/23 10:21, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/6/23 5:43 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
>> "bad sector" <forg...@invalid.net> wrote
>>
>> | Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
>> | and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
>> | concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
>> | as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
>> | be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
>> | other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
>> | spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.
>> |
>>
>>    That would be a lot of work for Google. Usenet is dying,
>> anyway. And half the people still here are so old and cranky
>> that they just argue all day, or they ask questions to have
>> company. I think the main problem is that younger people
>> don't want free, open services. It makes them feel "unsafe"
>> if they can't upvote, downvote and complain to moderators.
>
> If true, and I think it probably is, that's incredibly sad.  The world
> holds more possibilities now than ever before, and the little idiots are
> deliberately limiting themselves.  "Safety" is an illusion and is pretty
> much dependent on luck, although preparation helps a lot.

Probably because every website feels so clean and sterile, and setting
up Usenet requires doing stuff that they're not used to (and TB is the
only reader I would consider mainstream because of the connection to
Firefox and being a mail client too)

[Wally J]

"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

>> All I ask of you, Carlos, is to stop trying to insult me.
>
> I am not insulting you.

Look Carlos, all you do is subtract value from every thread you post to.
Just like Joerg does. And Alan Baker.

You've _never_ added on-topic technical value to any thread in your life.
You can't.

All you can do, Carlos, is insult people.
You have no other capacity.

The amount of technical value I add in a single tutorial is more than you
can add if you add up every single post you've ever made here, Carlos.

That's how much of a piece of shit you are, Carlos.
Just like Alan Baker & Joerg Lorenz, Carlos.

Devoid of value.

However...

Usenet is water under the bridge to me.
If you act civilly toward me (& others), then I'll act civilly with you.

If you post a question to this newsgroup, Carlos, I'll try to help you.
Just don't act like a piece of shit when that happens.

I always treat you the way you treat me.
--
You learn the true meaning of worthless people when you are on Usenet.

[Wally J]

"Carlos E. R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

> Does any spammer, who are trying to profit in some manner, post to
> Usenet proper?

The problem needs to be understood at the level an adult should comprehend.

They do spam to Usenet proper, but the problem isn't that spam (IMHO).
It's bigger than that when the DejaNews archives are no longer functional.

There are 3 solutions to the spam now, but the spam isn't the real problem.
*Anyone can filter out the spam*

Self centered people only see the problem as it affects their use model.
But people who care about others see a much bigger picture, Carlos.

The problem is that the dejanews archives are being rendered useless.
That has negative implications you can't possibly comprehend, Carlos.

That's why it's important to fix this problem.
And, to answer your question (since I asked it on the peering groups).

My understanding of the "immediate" problem is...
a. The spammers have real accounts on Google servers
b. They are spamming Usenet through the Google Groups' portal
c. Google is doing nothing about it - but worse...

Some notoriously badly behaved peers are peering that spam.
A. Giganews
B. Highwinds
C. others?

There are 3 solutions to the spam, but the spam isn't the real problem.
1. The main problem is Google is allowing this spam
2. And then the badly behaved news servers are peering this spam
3. Such that the rest of us are filtering out all Google Groups' posts
(except those with better filters, such as those Andy discussed)

But the spam isn't the problem, Carlos.
The problem is that the spam destroys the utility of the DejaNews archive.

For self-centered people, and especially for people like Joerg Lorenz who
only post to Usenet for their own amusement, losing DejaNews isn't an
issue.

But for those of us who care about the population at large, losing the
utility of the DejaNews archives is a big deal as it affects everyone.

Yes. Everyone.
Well, anyone who is intelligent enough to run a search before posting.

But it also affects people _outside_ of Usenet, Carlos.
Because it only takes a web browser to run a search.
And that search result can be read without a news reader
And the retention is "forever" (in terms of DejaNews' archives)
And the result can be forwarded to someone else as a link.
etc.

None of this occurs to self-centered people, Carlos.
--
The beauty of Usenet is you can reach people who care about everyone.