Force apps to run from /storage/sdcard1?

[The Real Bev]

...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.

--
Cheers, Bev
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Sign on restroom hand-dryer:
"Push button for a message from your congressman."

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per The Real Bev:

>...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
>32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
>on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.

On my N7000 Note, I can fire up Settings | Application Manager.

Some apps will have the "Move to SD card" button enabled and those will
be moved if I click it - and I don't have to wait for each one. Just
keep bringing them up and clicking the button and it will cue them and
process one-by-one.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Tom P]

On 03.11.2013 17:32, The Real Bev wrote:
> ...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
> 32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
> on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.
>

The app developer needs to set the option in the manifest.xml -
android:installLocation="auto"

If the developer doesn't bother to set the option, then by default the
app installs to internal storage and can't be moved. Another possibility
is that the app was written to be compatible with very old versions of
Android. It's also possible that the app needs some special features
that mean that it has to be installed on internal storage.
Maybe you could try giving the app a bad rating and hope the developer
wakes up.

If anyone knows how to override it, I'd love to know as well.

[Bob Bloggs]

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 08:32:20 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
>32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
>on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.

Try using "Send To SD Card" from Goggle Play.

[s|b]

On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 10:20:56 -0700, Bob Bloggs wrote:

> Try using "Send To SD Card" from Goggle Play.

If this app works, then you are my hero, mister Blogs! (And I'll be my
nephew's hero. ;-)

I'm seeing him tomorrow, so I will give a try...

--
s|b

[The Real Bev]

I've got a feeling that this is a problem that nobody is really
interested in solving -- much easier to just rely on the increasing
capability of the hardware.

Back in the early 1970s when we got our first computer my husband stayed
up nights re-writing the boot ROM to make it more capable in less space.
He once woke me up to tell me that he'd saved 8 bytes. Our first hard
drive was maybe 5 megabytes and cost ~$600. Storage is so cheapnow
it's almost not worth the bother of deleting junk files. This clearly
encourages sloppy programming of apps for people who are willing to
spend big bucks for their cell service and phones.

Who wants the $10/year customer who buys a near-generic unlocked Android
phone and only downloads free apps?

--
Cheers, Bev
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Only wimps use tape backup; *real* men just upload their
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world
mirror it ;)" -- Linus Torvalds

[The Real Bev]

Not clear how you use it, but stumbling around indicated that I might
want to move something on my external sdcard to internal storage.
Period. I declined. The onter one needed root access, and I'm not
ready to root the thing yet.


--
Cheers, Bev
===================================================
"I love deadlines... especially the whooshing sound
they make as they go by." -Douglas Adams

[John B.]

On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:00:26 -0800, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/07/2013 09:20 AM, Bob Bloggs wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 08:32:20 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
>>>32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
>>>on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.
>>
>> Try using "Send To SD Card" from Goggle Play.
>
>Not clear how you use it, but stumbling around indicated that I might
>want to move something on my external sdcard to internal storage.
>Period. I declined. The onter one needed root access, and I'm not
>ready to root the thing yet.

And you have tried using the Settings>Application manager utility to
move them to the external SD card? I find that many, perhaps most, of
the downloaded apps can be moved to external memory while most,
perhaps all, of the "came with the phone" apps cannot.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Anonymous]

> ...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
> 32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's
> NOTHING on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.

Go into the app manager, and for each app you installed choose "move
to SD card". The option will be greyed out for many apps, but at
least you should do it for the apps that allow it.

You can go further, and force the internal-only apps to get the
option. To do that, you must install the SDK and modify the app.

I've heard that it's just a tickbox. But personally, I've not been
motivated enough to install the SDK - I would rather not support those
authors and delete such apps, and try out competiting apps who may
have the SD card option.

[s|b]

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 13:50:18 +0000 (UTC), Anonymous wrote:

> Go into the app manager, and for each app you installed choose "move
> to SD card". The option will be greyed out for many apps, but at
> least you should do it for the apps that allow it.

This doesn't work. At least not for the CoolTab-70. It just moves apps
to the "fake" (internal?) SD card, but not to the _real_ external SD
card.

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 10:20:56 -0700, Bob Bloggs wrote:

> Try using "Send To SD Card" from Goggle Play.

Ok, I installed it on my nephew's CoolTab-70... How does it work? I was
given the impression that it would give an option to "send to SD card"
when opening an app. I tried it with several of his games; I did not get
this option... :-(

It installed ok and I can enter the settings, but I have no idea what to
choose in those settings or how I can get the thing to work.

--
s|b

[The Real Bev]

On 11/09/2013 02:43 AM, John B. wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:00:26 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11/07/2013 09:20 AM, Bob Bloggs wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 08:32:20 -0800, The Real Bev
>>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
>>>>32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
>>>>on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.
>>>
>>> Try using "Send To SD Card" from Goggle Play.
>>
>>Not clear how you use it, but stumbling around indicated that I might
>>want to move something on my external sdcard to internal storage.
>>Period. I declined. The onter one needed root access, and I'm not
>>ready to root the thing yet.
>
> And you have tried using the Settings>Application manager utility to

Of course, as well as a number of aftermarket apps.

> move them to the external SD card? I find that many, perhaps most, of
> the downloaded apps can be moved to external memory while most,
> perhaps all, of the "came with the phone" apps cannot.

No. The phone has two installation choices, and downloaded apps (for
the most part) can be moved between them: 'phone' and 'sdcard'. The
bad news is that 'sdcard' (or /storage/sdcard0, a mirror) refers to the
internal storage, NOT the external SDcard. The external card is
/storage/sdcard1.

--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why is it so hot and what am I doing in this handbasket?

[The Real Bev]

I just went to the website, which gives complete instructions:
http://features.en.softonic.com/force-android-to-automatically-install-apps-to-sd-card
The bad news, as you will find out if you read the comments, is that the
tool (or whatever) thinks that 'sdcard' is the external card, while in
reality it's the same old internal memory as before.

All that's needed is the ability to supply a full path to the
installation subdirectory; why is this so fscking HARD?

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================================
"Some people say that when it rains it means that God is crying,
probably because of something that you did." --Jack Handey

[s|b]

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 08:37:05 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> I just went to the website, which gives complete instructions:
> http://features.en.softonic.com/force-android-to-automatically-install-apps-to-sd-card

It looks complicated. :-\

> The bad news, as you will find out if you read the comments, is that the
> tool (or whatever) thinks that 'sdcard' is the external card, while in
> reality it's the same old internal memory as before.

So the app is useless?

> All that's needed is the ability to supply a full path to the
> installation subdirectory; why is this so fscking HARD?

:-(

--
s|b

[The Real Bev]

On 11/10/2013 09:11 AM, s|b wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 08:37:05 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I just went to the website, which gives complete instructions:
>> http://features.en.softonic.com/force-android-to-automatically-install-apps-to-sd-card
>
> It looks complicated. :-\
>
>> The bad news, as you will find out if you read the comments, is that the
>> tool (or whatever) thinks that 'sdcard' is the external card, while in
>> reality it's the same old internal memory as before.
>
> So the app is useless?

Based on what I read, yes. This is just one of the functions it
performs, though, so it might be useful in some other way.

>> All that's needed is the ability to supply a full path to the
>> installation subdirectory; why is this so fscking HARD?

You can do this with linux. Android is linux-based. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================================
"Everything sucks; reverse the wires and everything will blow."
-- Desert Ed

[John B.]

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 07:44:58 -0800, The Real Bev

My Galaxy S II, Android 4.1.2, Settings calls it Device Memory, which
is the computer's RAM, USB Storage and SD Card :-)

But I am not talking about installation of an App, but the ability to
move it from the installed storage memory to the removable SD card
using Settings>Application Manager.

I just checked and with few exceptions the originally installed Apps
cannot be moved that way while Apps that I have downloaded and
installed can be. This does not appear to be an either/or situation as
I notice that Go Launcher/Locker and at least two Widgets cannot be
moved, and I might add, most of the installed Apps cannot be deleted
either.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

This one (4.2) refers to phone, sdcard, USB and external sdcard, the
last of which is apparently invisible to all the apps with the exception
of a very few that store their data there.

> But I am not talking about installation of an App, but the ability to
> move it from the installed storage memory to the removable SD card
> using Settings>Application Manager.

Neither works.

> I just checked and with few exceptions the originally installed Apps
> cannot be moved that way while Apps that I have downloaded and
> installed can be. This does not appear to be an either/or situation as
> I notice that Go Launcher/Locker and at least two Widgets cannot be
> moved, and I might add, most of the installed Apps cannot be deleted
> either.

I wonder if this facet of the OS was designed by the same geniuses who
designed the Cadillac OS -- dumbest thing I've found so far is the fact
that when you take your foot off the gas it takes a LONG time to stop
feeding in more -- apparently the assh*le thought customers couldn't
deal with the sudden deceleration :-( It's not a bug, it's a protective
feature.

[John B.]

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 23:02:49 -0800, The Real Bev

I just changed Usenet servers so I may be out of sync with messages
but after reading one of your posts I spent some time fooling with
both a "No Name" tablet and my Samsung Galaxy S II. Neither seem to
move the storage of Apps to the user supplied SD card. So far I
haven't found out where they are moved to but nothing I have used so
far displays them on the removable card.

Another thing, if you get a terminal app that lets you read the actual
directories in android the /mnt directory contains an external_sd and
a sdcard directory. These directories show the same subdirectories as
most file managers display for the external and internal Sd
directories. So why don't these moved apps show up?

By the way, I also came across a presentation on the Android system
and learned that Android doesn't shut down unused apps, they keep
right on running after you have moved to another application.

"Android usually does not kill an app, i.e. apps keep
running even after you switch to other apps:
Android kills apps when the memory usage goes too
high, but it saves app state for quick restart later on"

It seems likely that people complaining that "memory is full so the
thing slows down" have the cart before the horse, so to speak. The
problem is likely to be that there are too many apps grabbing CPU
cycles rather then the physical memory being totally taken up.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

I use ES file explorer, which also deals with your LAN and the cloud,
although I haven't done anything with the cloud. Maybe also USB, but
I'd rather use my computer to move files around -- a lot easier. Some
Android directories seem to be mirrored, or maybe just aliases.

> By the way, I also came across a presentation on the Android system
> and learned that Android doesn't shut down unused apps, they keep
> right on running after you have moved to another application.

I downloaded two app-killers -- one (big red X in the logo) to kill all
running apps and another (Easy app killer?) which allows you to choose.
Logo is a little green android. Indispensable. My phone is off now,
but if necessary I'll post actual titles next time I turn it on.

> "Android usually does not kill an app, i.e. apps keep
> running even after you switch to other apps:
> Android kills apps when the memory usage goes too
> high, but it saves app state for quick restart later on"
>
> It seems likely that people complaining that "memory is full so the
> thing slows down" have the cart before the horse, so to speak. The
> problem is likely to be that there are too many apps grabbing CPU
> cycles rather then the physical memory being totally taken up.

Seems stupid to have designed everything with no 'off' switch,
especially since I think most people leave their phones running 24/7. I
only want to download mail when I'm on the road, otherwise it all goes
onto my computer. Stupid gmail app doesn't have a 'delete all'
function, and I really don't want to fill up my phone with email I don't
need, especially when space is limited. It's bad enough when you use
gmail at the website -- I try to delete everything from all my email
accounts every once in a while, and the 'delete all' capability doesn't
show up until you've deleted several pages one page at a time.

I have to wonder why google offers cool stuff with serious interface
defects...

--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Lottery: the closest thing we have to
a tax on stupidity.

[John B.]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:20:02 -0800, The Real Bev

If you get a terminal app - search play store for "terminal" and take
the first one) you can "ls" the directories and nothing is mirrored,
but using some of the file managers seems to show them mirrored. Which
is confusing.

>> By the way, I also came across a presentation on the Android system
>> and learned that Android doesn't shut down unused apps, they keep
>> right on running after you have moved to another application.
>
>I downloaded two app-killers -- one (big red X in the logo) to kill all
>running apps and another (Easy app killer?) which allows you to choose.
> Logo is a little green android. Indispensable. My phone is off now,
>but if necessary I'll post actual titles next time I turn it on.

The presentation I was quoting is at
cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/fa10/cse120/lectures/CSE120-lecture.pdf
and is kind of interesting. It seems to say that Apps run until they
are overwritten.

>> "Android usually does not kill an app, i.e. apps keep
>> running even after you switch to other apps:
>> Android kills apps when the memory usage goes too
>> high, but it saves app state for quick restart later on"
>>
>> It seems likely that people complaining that "memory is full so the
>> thing slows down" have the cart before the horse, so to speak. The
>> problem is likely to be that there are too many apps grabbing CPU
>> cycles rather then the physical memory being totally taken up.
>
>Seems stupid to have designed everything with no 'off' switch,
>especially since I think most people leave their phones running 24/7. I
>only want to download mail when I'm on the road, otherwise it all goes
>onto my computer. Stupid gmail app doesn't have a 'delete all'
>function, and I really don't want to fill up my phone with email I don't
>need, especially when space is limited. It's bad enough when you use
>gmail at the website -- I try to delete everything from all my email
>accounts every once in a while, and the 'delete all' capability doesn't
>show up until you've deleted several pages one page at a time.
>

Read the presentation. It seems to make pretty good sense.

And of course Linux does much the same thing. there are multitudes of
things that are loaded into memory and still running in a sense
al;though most of them are sleeping. At the moment this machine I'm
typing on has some 208 processes in memory but most of them are
sleeping, i.e., using the very minimum of CPU cycles.

>I have to wonder why google offers cool stuff with serious interface
>defects...

READ the Presentation... they aren't seen as defects, short cuts
perhaps but not defects :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

On 11/11/2013 06:47 PM, John B. wrote:

>>I use ES file explorer, which also deals with your LAN and the cloud,
>>although I haven't done anything with the cloud. Maybe also USB, but
>>I'd rather use my computer to move files around -- a lot easier. Some
>>Android directories seem to be mirrored, or maybe just aliases.
>>
> If you get a terminal app - search play store for "terminal" and take
> the first one) you can "ls" the directories and nothing is mirrored,
> but using some of the file managers seems to show them mirrored. Which
> is confusing.

Not all that useful, unfortunately. Too much typing and the most useful
switch (to me, anyway), -t, is missing. I ALWAYS want to see what the
newest file is unless I'm looking for a specific file. It won'd let me
do du -s either. No man pages. Feh.

> READ the Presentation... they aren't seen as defects, short cuts
> perhaps but not defects :-)

Perhaps of more interest to those who want to, um, make stuff :-(


--
Cheers, Bev
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This is Usenet. We *are* the trained body for dealing
with psychotics. -- A. Dingley

[Anssi Saari]

John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:

> The presentation I was quoting is at
> cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/fa10/cse120/lectures/CSE120-lecture.pdf
> and is kind of interesting. It seems to say that Apps run until they
> are overwritten.

I don't think that's how Android works. Sure background apps aren't
killed but they *are* stopped if they don't have focus except for
services which are meant to run in the background.

It's explained fairly concisely at
http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#ProcessLifecycle

BTW, the Android task killer debate has been going on for a very long
time. Android developers have spoken against them and AFAIK no one has
shown any benefit.

[John B.]

rOn Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:03:41 -0800, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/11/2013 06:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>>>I use ES file explorer, which also deals with your LAN and the cloud,
>>>although I haven't done anything with the cloud. Maybe also USB, but
>>>I'd rather use my computer to move files around -- a lot easier. Some
>>>Android directories seem to be mirrored, or maybe just aliases.
>>>
>> If you get a terminal app - search play store for "terminal" and take
>> the first one) you can "ls" the directories and nothing is mirrored,
>> but using some of the file managers seems to show them mirrored. Which
>> is confusing.
>
>Not all that useful, unfortunately. Too much typing and the most useful
>switch (to me, anyway), -t, is missing. I ALWAYS want to see what the
>newest file is unless I'm looking for a specific file. It won'd let me
>do du -s either. No man pages. Feh.
>

True, but useful to see what the directory structure really is.

>> READ the Presentation... they aren't seen as defects, short cuts
>> perhaps but not defects :-)
>
>Perhaps of more interest to those who want to, um, make stuff :-(

\On the other hand it tells you what it is and how it is going to
work. Than one can either be happy, or buy an Apple :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:43:15 +0200, Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:

>John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The presentation I was quoting is at
>> cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/fa10/cse120/lectures/CSE120-lecture.pdf
>> and is kind of interesting. It seems to say that Apps run until they
>> are overwritten.
>
>I don't think that's how Android works. Sure background apps aren't
>killed but they *are* stopped if they don't have focus except for
>services which are meant to run in the background.
>
>It's explained fairly concisely at
>http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#ProcessLifecycle
>

Nope it is saying the same thing with slightly different emphasis.
Running processes can be shunted into the back ground, where they can
become what Linux calls sleeping, "so the system may safely kill its
process to reclaim memory for other foreground or visible processes"

>BTW, the Android task killer debate has been going on for a very long
>time. Android developers have spoken against them and AFAIK no one has
>shown any benefit.

Funny, Unix, or Linux, back in the day of slow processors would slow
down, sometimes to a crawl, and nobody talked about task killing.
There was a priority system or "nice' to sort of control things and
you could always "kill" a process but I don't remember anyone moaning
and groaning about it :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

What if I don't want to go back to the page/area I was on when I left
the program? Sometimes I just want what I was doing to STOP without
having to hit a sequence of back-arrows to get to the generic app
opening. Most of the time, in fact.

That was maybe the third app I downloaded. (1) Firefox. (2) Adblock.
(2) thing to kill ALL apps, and then the one that lets you choose.

Some things are just essential.

--
Cheers, Bev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bender: And so I ask you this one question: Have you ever tried simply
turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

[The Real Bev]

On 11/12/2013 02:42 AM, John B. wrote:
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 11/11/2013 06:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>
>>>>I use ES file explorer, which also deals with your LAN and the cloud,
>>>>although I haven't done anything with the cloud. Maybe also USB, but
>>>>I'd rather use my computer to move files around -- a lot easier. Some
>>>>Android directories seem to be mirrored, or maybe just aliases.
>>>>
>>> If you get a terminal app - search play store for "terminal" and take
>>> the first one) you can "ls" the directories and nothing is mirrored,
>>> but using some of the file managers seems to show them mirrored. Which
>>> is confusing.
>>
>>Not all that useful, unfortunately. Too much typing and the most useful
>>switch (to me, anyway), -t, is missing. I ALWAYS want to see what the

>>newest file is unless I'm looking for a specific file. It won't let me

>>do du -s either. No man pages. Feh.

Typo fixed. Sorry, I can't help it.

> True, but useful to see what the directory structure really is.
>
>>> READ the Presentation... they aren't seen as defects, short cuts
>>> perhaps but not defects :-)
>>
>>Perhaps of more interest to those who want to, um, make stuff :-(
>
> \On the other hand it tells you what it is and how it is going to
> work. Than one can either be happy, or buy an Apple :-)

I'll take the former. It's been a LONG time since I regarded solving
problems as recreation :-)

My only apple experience: Back in 198x my company bought a Mac for some
godawful reason. I was assigned to put it together and get it running.
One of the first things I did, never having used a GUI before, was
delete one of the system icons, which I did by sheer accident and whose
name I had not noticed. I flailed around and got it back, but the
experience marked me for life.

I have upon occasion looked at pictures on friends' iPhones, but I felt
dirty afterward :-)

[The Real Bev]

I've always had great admiration for processes that could survive
multiple kill-9 attacks. Sooner or later they give up, but not without
a fight.

[John B.]

goodness, a mature woman :-)

> One of the first things I did, never having used a GUI before, was
>delete one of the system icons, which I did by sheer accident and whose
>name I had not noticed. I flailed around and got it back, but the
>experience marked me for life.
>
>I have upon occasion looked at pictures on friends' iPhones, but I felt
>dirty afterward :-)

I had an Apple II and thought it was produced by a very forward
looking company. Included with the computer was a complete schematic
of the mother board, pin outs for all connections, timing diagrams for
every bus, in short all the information you would need to make add on
cards and people did, in profusion. We used Apple II's with a Z-80
card to run CP/M and WordStar as word processors for years rather then
change to more modern machines; which would require re-training of the
entire company's clerical staff and massive chaos. (we eventually did
change and that is how I know about the Chaos :-).

In fact we undertook a project to provide sea bed maps of the Sunda
Straits and the survey company we hired used Apple II's with add on
cards to record the data.

When the next generation of the Apple computer came along it was a
completely closed system and I never bought another Apple product.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I've been tinkering around downloading Apps and deleting Apps and
looking at memory and it looks as though Android (or at least my
tablet Android 4.1.1) does not have a dedicated RAM but uses a portion
of "Internal Storage"

My let reports Settings>Storage> Internal Storage of 0.98 GB, reported
as Total Available, Apps(app data & media content). It also reports
"Nand Flash" of 5.38 GB, reported as Apps(app data & media content),
Audio, Downloads and Misc., and a "SD Card". This is commensurate with
the advertised 1 Gig and 6 Gigs and Optional.

When you download an Application the amount of "Internal Storage -
Apps" increases and if you delete the download it returns to its
previous value.

In addition, if you move an App to "SDCard" the value of NAND FLASH -
Apps increases and the value of Internal Storage - Apps decreases.
when you move it back to System the changes reverse.

If what appears to be happening is, then memory being "full" or "not
full" is not only a matter of how many Apps are running but also how
many Apps have been downloaded and NOT moved to SD Card, which appears
another term for the internal SD Card.

So, it may well be a good practice to move every App to "sd card" that
can be moved with the idea that it might open up more of the "Internal
Storage" for Apps being used to thrash around in.

P.S. Re turning off TV's and hitting kids. I one had a good friend who
used to say, "There is no difference in raising kids and raising
hunting dogs.... except the dogs seem to learn a bit quicker."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Anssi Saari]

John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> writes:

> Running processes can be shunted into the back ground, where they can
> become what Linux calls sleeping, "so the system may safely kill its
> process to reclaim memory for other foreground or visible processes"

Well, if processes are sleeping, they are not running in the background
now are they?

[John B.]

Except that their nap may be a very short one if somebody wants
something done :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Bob Bloggs]

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 22:55:43 +0100, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:

>On 03.11.2013 17:32, The Real Bev wrote:
>> ...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
>> 32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
>> on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.
>

> If anyone knows how to override it, I'd love to know as well.

Cannot say i will work with all apps but suggest you try "send to sd
card" from Goggle Play.

[s|b]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:58:01 -0700, Bob Bloggs wrote:

> Cannot say i will work with all apps but suggest you try "send to sd
> card" from Goggle Play.

It's already been discussed somewhere in this thread; it doesn't work.

--
s|b

[John B.]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:58:01 -0700, Bob Bloggs <on...@nowhere.invalid>
wrote:

The "move to SD card" moves an App from "Device memory", my Samsung
calls it, to USB memory, the internal SD memory. Not to the user
supplied additional SD Card.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

On 11/12/2013 08:33 PM, John B. wrote:

> When you download an Application the amount of "Internal Storage -
> Apps" increases and if you delete the download it returns to its
> previous value.
>
> In addition, if you move an App to "SDCard" the value of NAND FLASH -
> Apps increases and the value of Internal Storage - Apps decreases.
> when you move it back to System the changes reverse.
>
> If what appears to be happening is, then memory being "full" or "not
> full" is not only a matter of how many Apps are running but also how
> many Apps have been downloaded and NOT moved to SD Card, which appears
> another term for the internal SD Card.
>
> So, it may well be a good practice to move every App to "sd card" that
> can be moved with the idea that it might open up more of the "Internal
> Storage" for Apps being used to thrash around in.

I moved as much as I could to the 'phone' storage, since there was twice
as much of it as 'sdcard' storage. I use Clickfree to run backups to
the real sdcard, but haven't had occasion to try to restore anything.
Nor have I tried sideloading any apps to the real sdcard.

--
Cheers, Bev
"A friend is someone who puts the needs of others above their own.
Find one of those people and take advantage of him." --Rat

[John B.]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 22:50:49 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/12/2013 08:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>> When you download an Application the amount of "Internal Storage -
>> Apps" increases and if you delete the download it returns to its
>> previous value.
>>
>> In addition, if you move an App to "SDCard" the value of NAND FLASH -
>> Apps increases and the value of Internal Storage - Apps decreases.
>> when you move it back to System the changes reverse.
>>
>> If what appears to be happening is, then memory being "full" or "not
>> full" is not only a matter of how many Apps are running but also how
>> many Apps have been downloaded and NOT moved to SD Card, which appears
>> another term for the internal SD Card.
>>
>> So, it may well be a good practice to move every App to "sd card" that
>> can be moved with the idea that it might open up more of the "Internal
>> Storage" for Apps being used to thrash around in.
>
>I moved as much as I could to the 'phone' storage, since there was twice
>as much of it as 'sdcard' storage. I use Clickfree to run backups to
>the real sdcard, but haven't had occasion to try to restore anything.
>Nor have I tried sideloading any apps to the real sdcard.

I tried recording how much memory was in each division of the "Devise
Memory" and the "USB Storage", to use Samsung terminology, and if I
than downloaded an App the Device Memory-Apps division increased in
size by approximately the size of the App. If I then moved the App to
SD Card, using the Settings > Apps utility, the App division of that
memory increases and the App division of the Device Memory decreases.
If you then delete the App the App division of the SD Card decreases
appropriately.

I than tried another tactic. I down loaded an App, noted the increase
in Devise Memory and jerked the battery out of the phone. After 10 or
15 minutes I reinserted the battery and powered up the phone, the App
was still there. So memory in an Android appears to be all
non-volatile unlike the desktop/laptop RAM that we are used to seeing
and Android seems to use the Devise Memory as both permanent storage
and operating space, which is a bit confusing, perhaps to the
unaccustomed user (it was to me anyway :-).

A quick survey of three Android devices shows 1 to 2 GB of "Devise
Memory" and 6 to 15 GB of USB Storage, so the best strategy seems to
be to move everything that you can from the Devise Memory to the
on-board SD Card and then use a user added SD Card for Data - books,
videos, photos - storage. I currently have a considerable e-pub
library on two of the devices and even with a 16 GB card there is
plenty of memory unused.

In rereading your post it appears that you have either a very large
System Memory or a tiny SD Card memory as you say, "I moved as much as

I could to the 'phone' storage, since there was twice as much of it as

'sdcard' storage". What sort of phone/Tablet do you have?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Robert Marshall]

Try installing the app move it to the sd card - and find out where - say
/sdcard/NewApp move the app back to device memory, then in adb shell (or
in a shell app) on the android

mkdir /storage/sdcard1/NewApp
ln -s /storage/sdcard1/NewApp /sdcard/NewApp

and then move it to the sd card.

Or will the move to 'sd card' delete the soft link before moving the
app?

Might have to be careful with not running the app when the external SD
card is removed

Robert
--
La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/

[Nomen Nescio]

> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 13:50:18 +0000 (UTC), Anonymous wrote:
>
> > Go into the app manager, and for each app you installed choose
> > "move to SD card". The option will be greyed out for many apps,
> > but at least you should do it for the apps that allow it.
>

> This doesn't work. At least not for the CoolTab-70. It just moves
> apps to the "fake" (internal?) SD card, but not to the _real_
> external SD card.

If you have your choice of SD cards, it's a bad idea to use the
external one for apps. You're essentially sacrificing the SD hot-swap
capability for nothing. You should put apps on the internal SD, and
data on the external SD.

Moreover, your limitation of being unable to choose which SD card is
not an Android limitation, but rather a particular limitation of
Lenco's CoolTab device. It's the responsibility of Lenco to get that
right.

[John B.]

I understand what you are saying but with the "standard" Android
device you can't make new directories, in either Devise memory or the
USB Memory(to paraphrase my Samsung phone) or arbitrarily move Apps to
any place that you want to.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Bob Martin]

What do you mean by '"standard" Android'?
There is nothing to stop you creating directories in the Data partition.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:58:15 +0700, John B. wrote:

> ... in either Devise memory ...

Sorry that consistent spelling error is really beginning to irritate.


Devise - To work out, contrive, or plan (something) in one's mind.

Device - A contrivance or an invention serving a particular purpose.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[John B.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:11:54 GMT, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>
wrote:

By "standard" I was a standard phone just as you buy it off the
counter. And you are correct that you can make a directory using a
file manager... when I said you can't do it I was thinking of the
underlying Android directory structure that you can't get at unless
the phone is rooted.

But regardless you can't seem to move most of the manufacturer's
installed applications.

Perhaps if rooted you can move them and make the original directory
entry a link to a new location but there seems to be some reason that
system files are located in the Device memory. Do you think that they
will run if moved to say the external SD card?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

My apologies.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Bob Martin]

I now have Nexus devices (4 and 7) which have no "external" SD card,
but on my SGS+ I formatted the SD card in CWM and created a special
partition for apps (format option) and could move any apps to that partition.

[John B.]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:22:48 GMT, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>

How did you move, for instance, Google Services, or any other of the
system or maker installed Apps?

On either my phone or tablet only user added Apps and not all of them
can be moved by the Settings Applications menu.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[s|b]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 08:41:41 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

> > ... in either Devise memory ...

> Sorry that consistent spelling error is really beginning to irritate.
>
>
> Devise - To work out, contrive, or plan (something) in one's mind.
>
> Device - A contrivance or an invention serving a particular purpose.

<http://tinyurl.com/m2rldd2>

That's with a 'Z'...

--
s|b

[Tom P]

On 15.11.2013 00:37, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 13:50:18 +0000 (UTC), Anonymous wrote:
>>
>>> Go into the app manager, and for each app you installed choose
>>> "move to SD card". The option will be greyed out for many apps,
>>> but at least you should do it for the apps that allow it.
>>
>> This doesn't work. At least not for the CoolTab-70. It just moves
>> apps to the "fake" (internal?) SD card, but not to the _real_
>> external SD card.
>
> If you have your choice of SD cards, it's a bad idea to use the
> external one for apps. You're essentially sacrificing the SD hot-swap
> capability for nothing. You should put apps on the internal SD, and
> data on the external SD.
>

I have never once taken the SD card out of the phone since I bought it.
Why should I be worried about losing hot-swap capability?
What is far more a pain is having to think about which app to delete
if I want to install a new one.
I have written a couple of apps and one of the first things I learnt
was to set the option to move to SD card. It's an additional option that
the developer has to set, and it's a zero-brainer one line addition to
the manifest file.
I seriously question whether most add-on apps really need to run from
internal storage, it's just stupidity or laziness or a trick to get
users to buy a new phone with more memory..

[Fritz Wuehler]

> > If you have your choice of SD cards, it's a bad idea to use the
> > external one for apps. You're essentially sacrificing the SD hot-swap
> > capability for nothing. You should put apps on the internal SD, and
> > data on the external SD.
>
> I have never once taken the SD card out of the phone since I bought it.
> Why should I be worried about losing hot-swap capability?

Because when the phone is syncing via USB cable, the SD card (and all
apps on it) are yanked, and unavailable until the phone remounts the
SD card. Androids are also glitchy, and whenever mounting/remounting
fails, none of the apps on the SD card are available.

I suggest this usage:

internal memory) reserve for OS and things that must use it (like SMS)

internal SD) apps

external SD) data

> What is far more a pain is having to think about which app to delete
> if I want to install a new one.

Aren't SD cards supported up to 64gb, generally? If you need more
than that, you probably have too many apps. After a couple years,
you'll have figured out which apps you really use, and which ones are
just wasting space.

> I have written a couple of apps and one of the first things I learnt
> was to set the option to move to SD card. It's an additional option that
> the developer has to set, and it's a zero-brainer one line addition to
> the manifest file.
>
> I seriously question whether most add-on apps really need to run from
> internal storage, it's just stupidity or laziness or a trick to get
> users to buy a new phone with more memory..

Integrated internal storage != internal SD card

You're stance is understandable given that you've equated internal
storage with internal SD cards. We can agree that it's absurd for an
app to only install itself into precious internal storage.

But the complaint was about someone having the option to install an
app to the SD card, but not being able to choose *which* SD card.

A dedicated 32 or 64gb of SD storage is /plenty/ of app storage space
for most users.

[Dave Higton]

In message <334d213de61b803b...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>
Fritz Wuehler

<fr...@spamexpire-201311.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:

>Because when the phone is syncing via USB cable, the SD card (and all
>apps on it) are yanked, and unavailable until the phone remounts the
>SD card.

That's only true if the phone offers the SD card as a Mass Storage
device; not true if it offers it as PTP/MTP.

I used to think that PTP/MTP was a nuisance, but now I understand
its virtue.

Dave

[Jim Price]

Ooh, what's that then? Is there a way of booting a PC attached by USB
from a PTP/MTP phone? If not, I'd consider that to be a big loss to try
and match with some alternative feature.

--
╔═╦═╦═════╦═══╗
║ ║ ║ ║ ║
╔═╝ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ╔═╝
╚═══╩═╩═╩═╩═╩═╝ -- JimP.

[The Real Bev]

BLU Dash 4.5. $150 total from Staples, but Newegg gives a better
description:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875561110
The storage thing is annoying, but more annoying is the fact that when
I'm actually using the thing it loses 10% of its battery life per hour.
As long as recharging overnight is possible that's not a problem...I
think...

It claims 4GB ROM:
"Internal storage" .98 GB (I have 401 MB available)
"Phone storage: 1.8 GB (.91 GB available)
No idea where the other 1 GB went.

My external SD card is 32 GB, of which I have 27 GB available. No point
in putting photos on it since I can get at the ones I'm willing to share
at picasa (or google photos) via wifi; if I don't have wifi access than
I can't show anybody any pictures. Big deal. I don't generally want to
listen to music on a portable device (silence is kind of nice!),
although I put my favorte Bach and Vivaldi stuff on it. A couple of
books just in case.

I don't like having less than 50% of a storage entity available. Long
ago I was temping somewhere and noticed that they had not done a backup
of the customer database for a LONG time, so I started to put one on 5"
floppies. Unfortunately, before writing to the floppies, the system
insisted on writing a complete backup to the hard drive, which was 75%
full. After I stopped sweating I figured out how to recover what was
lost, but that marked me for life.

I want everything possible on the external card -- at the very least, so
that I don't have to do a lot of work if I switch phones.

--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Friends help you move. *Real* friends help you move bodies."
--A. Walker

[The Real Bev]

On 11/14/2013 05:35 AM, Robert Marshall wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 14 2013, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:58:01 -0700, Bob Bloggs <on...@nowhere.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 22:55:43 +0100, Tom P <wero...@freent.dd> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 03.11.2013 17:32, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> ...which is what my BLU Dash 4.5 (android 4.2) insists on calling my
>>>>> 32-GB microSDcard. My internal storage is half full and there's NOTHING
>>>>> on my externsl SD card, which seems stupid and wasteful.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone knows how to override it, I'd love to know as well.
>>>
>>>Cannot say i will work with all apps but suggest you try "send to sd
>>>card" from Goggle Play.
>>
>> The "move to SD card" moves an App from "Device memory", my Samsung
>> calls it, to USB memory, the internal SD memory. Not to the user
>> supplied additional SD Card.
>
> Try installing the app move it to the sd card - and find out where - say
> /sdcard/NewApp move the app back to device memory, then in adb shell (or
> in a shell app) on the android
>
> mkdir /storage/sdcard1/NewApp
> ln -s /storage/sdcard1/NewApp /sdcard/NewApp

Hm. It never occurred to me that I could make symbolic links. The
program I have is missing some stuff (listing files by time, for one
thing!) and it's a bitch to type on the tiny virtual keyboards, so I
just gave up.

> and then move it to the sd card.
>
> Or will the move to 'sd card' delete the soft link before moving the
> app?
>
> Might have to be careful with not running the app when the external SD
> card is removed

I'll never remove it. You need to remove the skin, the back (insert
screwdriver HERE, twist, run fingernail along seam until the thing comes
apart) and the battery to do that. I suppose it's a safety feature :-(

[The Real Bev]

What 'Data partition'?


--
Cheers, Bev
###################################################################
"Johnston [Island] was the home of a U.S. chemical weapons disposal
facility for 10 years before operations ended in November 2000.
The island was turned into a wildlife preserve."
© 2002 The Associated Press

[The Real Bev]

On 11/15/2013 10:54 AM, Tom P wrote:

> On 15.11.2013 00:37, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 13:50:18 +0000 (UTC), Anonymous wrote:
>>>
>>>> Go into the app manager, and for each app you installed choose
>>>> "move to SD card". The option will be greyed out for many apps,
>>>> but at least you should do it for the apps that allow it.
>>>
>>> This doesn't work. At least not for the CoolTab-70. It just moves
>>> apps to the "fake" (internal?) SD card, but not to the _real_
>>> external SD card.

Likewise for my BLU Dash 4.5.

>> If you have your choice of SD cards, it's a bad idea to use the
>> external one for apps. You're essentially sacrificing the SD hot-swap
>> capability for nothing. You should put apps on the internal SD, and
>> data on the external SD.
>>
> I have never once taken the SD card out of the phone since I bought it.
> Why should I be worried about losing hot-swap capability?

Ditto.

> What is far more a pain is having to think about which app to delete
> if I want to install a new one.

Also ditto. I'm trying to find a GPS program that will make me happy,
and it would be nice to just be able to leave the rejects there in case
I discover something that moves them out of the 'reject' pile.

> I have written a couple of apps and one of the first things I learnt
> was to set the option to move to SD card. It's an additional option that
> the developer has to set, and it's a zero-brainer one line addition to
> the manifest file.

Is there any way for the great unwashed non-programming public (like me)
to patch the .apk file to fix this problem?

> I seriously question whether most add-on apps really need to run from
> internal storage, it's just stupidity or laziness or a trick to get
> users to buy a new phone with more memory..

Give that man a cookie! Do not attribute to malice... Since most of the
apps are free, why would the app-writers care about people buying new
phones? In fact, if they buy new phones he might have to update his app
to take advantage of new phone capabilities.

>> Moreover, your limitation of being unable to choose which SD card is
>> not an Android limitation, but rather a particular limitation of
>> Lenco's CoolTab device. It's the responsibility of Lenco to get that
>> right.

I don't have CoolTab, so why do I have a problem?

[The Real Bev]

Yes, but the 'Do not attribute to malice...' thing covers that nicely.

It just occurred to me: Could I possibly make /storage/sdcard1 a
symbolic link from /sdcard ? How do you just append a partition to a
subdirectory so it looks seamless? I've never needed to do a thing like
that before...

> But the complaint was about someone having the option to install an
> app to the SD card, but not being able to choose *which* SD card.
>
> A dedicated 32 or 64gb of SD storage is /plenty/ of app storage space
> for most users.

Of course, providing you can get at it. Right now, with a few
exceptions, it's just a big bookshelf.

[John B.]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:42:29 -0800, The Real Bev

The memory size that the manufacturers quote is the physical size of
the memory but before you can use the memory you will need to format
it which really means putting some sort of accounting system on it.
Depending on what sort of memory system you use there may appear to be
considerable difference between the manufacturer specifications and
what is seen by the user. I recently read the question of how much
memory the Linux ext-4 memory system used and someone reported the
sizes of a freshly formatted disk and a freshly formatted ext-4 disk,
with nothing stored on it, showed 2% of the space was used by the
memory system.

>My external SD card is 32 GB, of which I have 27 GB available. No point
>in putting photos on it since I can get at the ones I'm willing to share
>at picasa (or google photos) via wifi; if I don't have wifi access than
>I can't show anybody any pictures. Big deal. I don't generally want to
>listen to music on a portable device (silence is kind of nice!),
>although I put my favorte Bach and Vivaldi stuff on it. A couple of
>books just in case.
>
>I don't like having less than 50% of a storage entity available. Long
>ago I was temping somewhere and noticed that they had not done a backup
>of the customer database for a LONG time, so I started to put one on 5"
>floppies. Unfortunately, before writing to the floppies, the system
>insisted on writing a complete backup to the hard drive, which was 75%
>full. After I stopped sweating I figured out how to recover what was
>lost, but that marked me for life.
>

Well, we all have our little fetishes :-) But I agree, more memory is
always better. But then again, how much memory do you thing that
little Nokia that you had years ago possessed?

>I want everything possible on the external card -- at the very least, so
>that I don't have to do a lot of work if I switch phones.

There are Applications that will back up your phone to the external
card. I have used them to save Apps in a form that I could later
transfer to another phone but I don't know about things like ring
tones, etc., that are likely considered data.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[The Real Bev]

On 11/16/2013 08:57 PM, John B. wrote:
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 11/14/2013 03:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>>
>>> In rereading your post it appears that you have either a very large
>>> System Memory or a tiny SD Card memory as you say, "I moved as much as
>>> I could to the 'phone' storage, since there was twice as much of it as
>>> 'sdcard' storage". What sort of phone/Tablet do you have?
>>
>>BLU Dash 4.5. $150 total from Staples, but Newegg gives a better
>>description:
>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875561110
>>The storage thing is annoying, but more annoying is the fact that when
>>I'm actually using the thing it loses 10% of its battery life per hour.
>> As long as recharging overnight is possible that's not a problem...I
>>think...
>>
>>It claims 4GB ROM:
>> "Internal storage" .98 GB (I have 401 MB available)
>> "Phone storage: 1.8 GB (.91 GB available)
>>No idea where the other 1 GB went.
>>
> The memory size that the manufacturers quote is the physical size of
> the memory but before you can use the memory you will need to format
> it which really means putting some sort of accounting system on it.

I suspect it's the software that came with the unit since I can't move
it anywhere out of whatever mysterious dungeon it resides in now.

> Depending on what sort of memory system you use there may appear to be
> considerable difference between the manufacturer specifications and
> what is seen by the user. I recently read the question of how much
> memory the Linux ext-4 memory system used and someone reported the
> sizes of a freshly formatted disk and a freshly formatted ext-4 disk,
> with nothing stored on it, showed 2% of the space was used by the
> memory system.
>
>>My external SD card is 32 GB, of which I have 27 GB available. No point
>>in putting photos on it since I can get at the ones I'm willing to share
>>at picasa (or google photos) via wifi; if I don't have wifi access than
>>I can't show anybody any pictures. Big deal. I don't generally want to
>>listen to music on a portable device (silence is kind of nice!),
>>although I put my favorte Bach and Vivaldi stuff on it. A couple of
>>books just in case.
>>
>>I don't like having less than 50% of a storage entity available. Long
>>ago I was temping somewhere and noticed that they had not done a backup
>>of the customer database for a LONG time, so I started to put one on 5"
>>floppies. Unfortunately, before writing to the floppies, the system
>>insisted on writing a complete backup to the hard drive, which was 75%
>>full. After I stopped sweating I figured out how to recover what was
>>lost, but that marked me for life.
>>
> Well, we all have our little fetishes :-) But I agree, more memory is
> always better. But then again, how much memory do you thing that
> little Nokia that you had years ago possessed?

Maybe as much as Voyager 1 :-) All I wanted it to do with the Nokia was
make the occasional phone call, though. I want the BLU mainly for its
computer-like functions, the phone is secondary. I put it in airplane
mode most of the time to save battery when I saw how much battery life
'standby phone' sucked.

>>I want everything possible on the external card -- at the very least, so
>>that I don't have to do a lot of work if I switch phones.
>
> There are Applications that will back up your phone to the external
> card. I have used them to save Apps in a form that I could later
> transfer to another phone but I don't know about things like ring
> tones, etc., that are likely considered data.

I've got Clickfree, but I don't know if you can restore to a different
phone -- brand, model, etc. Once I got the 'Our Man Flint' ringtone I
stopped looking :-)

--
Cheers, Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(On going to war over religion:) "You're basically killing each other
to see who's got the better imaginary friend." -- Rich Jeni

[John B.]

From what I've read so far it appears that the Android System has to
run from the Device memory and it appears that when makers take the
time and trouble to adapt the system to their phone that also
configure the Apps that they supply to run in System Memory, At least
I can't find a way to move then and generally anything I download can
be moved.

Re: battery life. I find that turning off Wi-Fi, GPS and the like lets
me get through the day quite comfortable. My wife, who uses her phone
mainly for games and only incidentally for talking :-) kept running
out of battery so I bought her one of those add on battery cases
things. Clip the phone into the case and you've connected to a big
battery. She used that for a while but got more adapt at charging the
battery I guess as she doesn't use the added battery now. But it is an
idea. I use one when I'm using GPS on a bike ride as 4 or 5 hours of
GPS seems to pretty well flatten the battery.

>>>I want everything possible on the external card -- at the very least, so
>>>that I don't have to do a lot of work if I switch phones.
>>
>> There are Applications that will back up your phone to the external
>> card. I have used them to save Apps in a form that I could later
>> transfer to another phone but I don't know about things like ring
>> tones, etc., that are likely considered data.
>
>I've got Clickfree, but I don't know if you can restore to a different
>phone -- brand, model, etc. Once I got the 'Our Man Flint' ringtone I
>stopped looking :-)

I'm probably a hillbilly. My ringtone is the first few bars of Earl
Scruggs playing Cripple Creek at Carnage Hall :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I came across a site that explains how to couple your Android to your
desktop and access the Android device.

see:
http://www.bongizmo.com/blog/moving-all-android-apps-to-sdcard-apps2sd-froyo/

I have the adt bundle and tried it (Linux Debian) and connected to an
Android phone and was able to make and delete a directory in both
sdcard0 and sdcard1, the internal card and the external card. You
cannot make a directory in the system memory.

That was all I tried this evening but if you can move an App from
internal sdcard to external and than make a link to the new location
it might work. (Ah say might!)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Dave Higton]

In message <l68f5q$eoq$1...@dont-email.me>

Jim Price <d1ve...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way of booting a PC attached by USB from a PTP/MTP phone? If
> not, I'd consider that to be a big loss to try and match with some
> alternative feature.

Surely you jest? Boot a PC from a phone?

I'm sure it /can/ be done if the phone presents itself as mass storage,
but why would you /want/ to?

Dave

[tlvp]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:09:57 +0700, John B. wrote:

> ... Scruggs playing Cripple Creek at Carnage Hall :-)

(OT) LOL ... Carnegie Hall, I presume :-) ? Or was Earl just slaughtering
the piece? Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Bob Martin]

in 2242 20131117 200840 Dave Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
>In message <l68f5q$eoq$1...@dont-email.me>
>Jim Price <d1ve...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way of booting a PC attached by USB from a PTP/MTP phone? If
>> not, I'd consider that to be a big loss to try and match with some
>> alternative feature.
>
>Surely you jest? Boot a PC from a phone?
>

SSH? ;-)

[John B.]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:31:04 -0500, tlvp <mPiOsUcB...@att.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:09:57 +0700, John B. wrote:
>
>> ... Scruggs playing Cripple Creek at Carnage Hall :-)
>
>(OT) LOL ... Carnegie Hall, I presume :-) ? Or was Earl just slaughtering
>the piece? Cheers, -- tlvp

Unfortunately spelling is not one of my strong points and my spell
checker passed it :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jim Price]

So I don't need to carry a USB stick around with me in addition to a
phone. Both have storage and a USB interface, but the bigger, cleverer
one can't do the easier job of the simple stupid one if it's stuck in
PTP/MTP mode.

--
╔═╦═╦═════╦═══╗
║ ║ ║ ║ ║
╔═╝ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ╔═╝
╚═══╩═╩═╩═╩═╩═╝ -- JimP.

[Fritz Wuehler]

> Surely you jest? Boot a PC from a phone?
>
> I'm sure it /can/ be done if the phone presents itself as mass
> storage, but why would you /want/ to?

So you don't have to carry around a separate USB stick with Tails on
it, perhaps?

[tlvp]

Your spell checker is right, of course: carnage is a perfectly good word,
spelled right. It just wasn't the word you wanted, I guess :-) . No harm
done, I s'pose, beyond a good chuckle here or there. Cheers, -- tlvp

[The Real Bev]

5-string banjo music is wonderful, it shouldn't be limited to rednecks
and moonshiners. I've got one and I got an instruction book, but all I
could get to was lesson 3 :-( I'm really clumsy and my fingers hurt. I
spent years trying to learn to play the violin, practicing several
hours/day. I could hit -- slowly -- withon 20% of the note 20% of the
time; the rest was close to random :-(

Not dueling banjos, 1 banjo and 1 guitar. Still lovely.


--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------
"Give me all your brains or I'll blow your money out!"
--Anonymous Unsuccessful Bank Robber

[John B.]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:14:38 -0500, tlvp <mPiOsUcB...@att.net>

wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:48:38 +0700, John B. wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:31:04 -0500, tlvp <mPiOsUcB...@att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:09:57 +0700, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... Scruggs playing Cripple Creek at Carnage Hall :-)
>>>
>>>(OT) LOL ... Carnegie Hall, I presume :-) ? Or was Earl just slaughtering
>>>the piece? Cheers, -- tlvp
>>
>> Unfortunately spelling is not one of my strong points and my spell
>> checker passed it :-)
>
>Your spell checker is right, of course: carnage is a perfectly good word,
>spelled right. It just wasn't the word you wanted, I guess :-) . No harm
>done, I s'pose, beyond a good chuckle here or there. Cheers, -- tlvp

Well, it is not a sin to bring a bit of humor into someone's life, and
as Andrew Jackson once said, "It is a damn poor mind that can think of
only one way to spell a word." :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:22:15 -0800, The Real Bev

If you are trying to learn "Scruggs style" than you want finger picks.
If "claw hammer" then you'll just have to live with wearing out your
fingernail :-)

>Not dueling banjos, 1 banjo and 1 guitar. Still lovely.

But why shouldn't "red necks and moonshiners" play the banjo? After
all, they are gainfully employed :-)

Apparently the banjo was used in early "rag time" bands. My father
played tenor banjo in collage... and, oh yes, the banjo is also common
in Irish music right along with the penny whistle :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom P]

I see that there are tools around that will decompile apk files. I
haven't tried it, but if that is so then you should be able to decompile
the app, go into the manifest and change it, then recompile it. However,
if you really are an unwashed non-programmer then the learning curve
could be steep to get a grip on the app development kit.

>
>> I seriously question whether most add-on apps really need to run from
>> internal storage, it's just stupidity or laziness or a trick to get
>> users to buy a new phone with more memory..
>
> Give that man a cookie! Do not attribute to malice... Since most of the
> apps are free, why would the app-writers care about people buying new
> phones?

I was thinking more in terms of Google leaving the default behaviour
that way.

[Anssi Saari]

Dave Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> writes:

> That's only true if the phone offers the SD card as a Mass Storage
> device; not true if it offers it as PTP/MTP.

The right answer would've been to offer the SD card as a network drive
with CIFS or NFS or even SSHFS. In fact there are Samba servers for
Android in the Play store. Trouble is they need root or are
Windows-incompatible.

> I used to think that PTP/MTP was a nuisance, but now I understand
> its virtue.

I don't. No syncing, no drive letter. Not usable for anything other than
extremely basic file operations.

[Dave Higton]

In message <vg3txf7...@coffee.modeemi.fi>

The virtue is that it allows the phone to continue operating,
accessing the card if necessary. Those file operations permit (in
principle, at least) syncing. The point is that it's storage that
permits multi-user access, whereas presenting the card as mass
storage requires that the card be dismounted from the phone and
given over to the external host, thus single-user access.

In principle a card could be simultaneously available via CIFS/
NFS/SSHFS/whatever /and/ PTP/MTP. You can't do that if you offer
the card as mass storage.

Dave

[Anssi Saari]

Dave Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> writes:

> In message <vg3txf7...@coffee.modeemi.fi>
> Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> wrote:
>
>> Dave Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> writes:

>> > I used to think that PTP/MTP was a nuisance, but now I understand its
>> > virtue.
>>
>> I don't. No syncing, no drive letter. Not usable for anything other than
>> extremely basic file operations.
>
> The virtue is that it allows the phone to continue operating

I guess I should've said I see nothing good in MTP, the other stuff is
obvious.

[Anonymous]

> Give that man a cookie! Do not attribute to malice... Since most of
> the apps are free, why would the app-writers care about people
> buying new phones?

I think you mean free as in "gratis", not "libre". In terms of
freedom, most apps seem to come from the play store and are non-free.
Non-free apps make money for the developer in a variety of ways, but
generally advertising, and data harvesting.

Developers of gratis but non-libre apps don't want their app to be
disabled every time someone mounts their SD card-- they want to force
maximum availability because they're only making money when their app
runs.

BTW, I advise against using the play store. Use F-droid instead.
Apps on f-droid don't have any hidden or questionable motivations, and
the code is FOSS.

> In fact, if they buy new phones he might have to update his app
> to take advantage of new phone capabilities.

If I were a producer of non-free apps, I would want to force as many
upgrades as possible on users. Whenever a user is forced to upgrade
an app, it's another opportunity for developers of non-free s/w to
push more data sharing "features". We saw that with groovip, for
example.

[The Real Bev]

It was the left-hand fingers that got sore. It took me a long time to
lose my violin calluses, but they were long gone when I got the banjo.

>
>>Not dueling banjos, 1 banjo and 1 guitar. Still lovely.
>
> But why shouldn't "red necks and moonshiners" play the banjo? After
> all, they are gainfully employed :-)
>
> Apparently the banjo was used in early "rag time" bands. My father
> played tenor banjo in collage... and, oh yes, the banjo is also common
> in Irish music right along with the penny whistle :-)

Almost anything makes a good musical instrument. When we were in the
London tubes (1978, before electronic keyboards were common, or perhaps
even available) I wondered how the hell somebody managed to get a piano
down all those stairs. Turns out it was some guys with steel drums. I
think you could play Bach on tuned trashcan lids if you had enough of
them. Vivaldi, not so much :-)

--
Cheers, Bev
--------------------------------------------
There is no such thing as a foolproof device
because fools are so ingenious.

[John B.]

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:51:09 -0800, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/18/2013 04:43 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:22:15 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>5-string banjo music is wonderful, it shouldn't be limited to rednecks
>>>and moonshiners. I've got one and I got an instruction book, but all I
>>>could get to was lesson 3 :-( I'm really clumsy and my fingers hurt. I
>>>spent years trying to learn to play the violin, practicing several
>>>hours/day. I could hit -- slowly -- withon 20% of the note 20% of the
>>>time; the rest was close to random :-(
>>>
>> If you are trying to learn "Scruggs style" than you want finger picks.
>> If "claw hammer" then you'll just have to live with wearing out your
>> fingernail :-)
>
>It was the left-hand fingers that got sore. It took me a long time to
>lose my violin calluses, but they were long gone when I got the banjo.
>>

You have to play it until your fingers bleed, in the words of the song
:-)

>>>Not dueling banjos, 1 banjo and 1 guitar. Still lovely.
>>
>> But why shouldn't "red necks and moonshiners" play the banjo? After
>> all, they are gainfully employed :-)
>>
>> Apparently the banjo was used in early "rag time" bands. My father
>> played tenor banjo in collage... and, oh yes, the banjo is also common
>> in Irish music right along with the penny whistle :-)
>
>Almost anything makes a good musical instrument. When we were in the
>London tubes (1978, before electronic keyboards were common, or perhaps
>even available) I wondered how the hell somebody managed to get a piano
>down all those stairs. Turns out it was some guys with steel drums. I
>think you could play Bach on tuned trashcan lids if you had enough of
>them. Vivaldi, not so much :-)

The penny whistle - still used in Irish folk music, for example :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Anonymous]

> > I seriously question whether most add-on apps really need to run from
> > internal storage, it's just stupidity or laziness or a trick to get
> > users to buy a new phone with more memory..
>
> Give that man a cookie! Do not attribute to malice... Since most of
> the apps are free, why would the app-writers care about people
> buying new phones?

It's google, not the app developers, who created an SDK that defaults
to the option that is most profitable for google.

The default setting exploits naive developers who are oblivious.
Google must also figure that most developers have high-end gear, and
thus won't give much thought to a sensible setting.

> >> Moreover, your limitation of being unable to choose which SD card
> >> is not an Android limitation, but rather a particular limitation
> >> of Lenco's CoolTab device. It's the responsibility of Lenco to
> >> get that right.
>
> I don't have CoolTab, so why do I have a problem?

It's the same problem. The manufacturer of your device imposed the
same limitation as Lenco did with their clients.

It's in their profit-driven interest to make improvements as
incremental as possible. Makers are exploiting the fact that most
consumers are suckers, willing to buy a new phone every year, and
willing to sign contracts that promote that kind of irresponsibility.

Want to avoid the commercial shenanigans? Don't buy an Android device.
Buy one of these:

* fairphone
* ubuntu phone
* geeksphone
* neo900

[klee...@gmail.com]

Sorry to use some thread necromancy but I'm encountering this same issue with Android 5.0.2 - my external SD card is still /storage/sdcard1 and the system (and several app2sd apps I've tried) don't understand how to use that. Can I simply ln -s somehow or is this a pain?

[The Real Bev]

Would that it were possible :-( Apparently you can do this if you root
your device. Apparently. I'm chicken. Out of the 8GB internal memory,
I still have a bit under 2GB empty, so I'm OK for now, but it would be
so GOOD to be able to use the external card for actually useful stuff.

--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince
parasites that they are victims." --Thomas Sowell