Free texting and calling via WiFi?

[TomR]

My friend has a young son with an Android phone, but with no paid phone
service on the phone. My friend also has Cable Internet with a WiFi modem
at home.

Currently, his young son is able to use the WiFi connection at home to
download and play free games and Apps from the Google Play Store. He can
also use his phone to take pictures and videos and he can store them on his
father's laptop by plugging in a USB cable to the laptop and transferring
the photos and videos.

My question is whether his son can use his Android phone with no paid phone
service to make and receive phone calls and send and receive texts -- and
maybe also send and receive photos. Mostly, his son would like to be able
to do this with his son's mother who does not live with them.

If I could figure out how this all works, I could help my friend get it all
set up on his son's phone. I heard that there may be free Apps like
Hangouts that can do these things for free, but when I try looking into it I
can't tell exactly how they would work.

And, I can't tell if Hangouts, for example, would enable my friend's son to
send and receive texts, photos, and phone calls to/from any cell phone -- or
if it would only work if the other person also has the same App installed
such as Hangouts (for example).

Can anyone here suggest a way for me to set up my friend's son's phone to do
these things for free? Which App or Apps should I try? Will they work in
sending to/from ANY cell phone, or just to/from cell phones that have the
same App installed?

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

[nospam]

In article <o48rmm$t1k$1...@dont-email.me>, TomR <To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm>
wrote:

>
> My question is whether his son can use his Android phone with no paid phone
> service to make and receive phone calls and send and receive texts -- and
> maybe also send and receive photos. Mostly, his son would like to be able
> to do this with his son's mother who does not live with them.

get a voip app and a messaging app. plenty of choices.

[TomR]

"nospam" wrote in message news:311220161308242487%nos...@nospam.invalid...

Thanks. Sorry, but I don't quite know what that means.

Can you give an example of a voip app and a messaging app? I could then
check those out and I'll know what they are and can then check other similar
apps.

--
I found this free and safe Windows Live Mail Newsreader QuoteFix program:
WLMail QuoteFix -> http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 31.12.16 um 19:01 schrieb TomR:

> If I could figure out how this all works, I could help my friend get it all
> set up on his son's phone. I heard that there may be free Apps like
> Hangouts that can do these things for free, but when I try looking into it I
> can't tell exactly how they would work.

Let this young boy do the stuff. In case he really wants to do it, he
will figure it out.

Joerg

--
http://www.albasani.net/index.html.de
Ein freier und kostenloser Server fuer Usenet/NetNews (NNTP)

[nospam]

In article <o48t78$3it$1...@dont-email.me>, TomR <To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm>

wrote:

> >> My question is whether his son can use his Android phone with no paid
> >> phone
> >> service to make and receive phone calls and send and receive texts -- and
> >> maybe also send and receive photos. Mostly, his son would like to be
> >> able
> >> to do this with his son's mother who does not live with them.
> >
> >get a voip app and a messaging app. plenty of choices.
>
> Thanks. Sorry, but I don't quite know what that means.

a voip app, otherwise known as voice over ip, lets you make/receive
phone calls using an internet connection rather than a cellular (or
landline) connection. there may be fees involved, depending on the app
and the voip service (if any). if you call to/fro a normal phone, there
more than likely will be fees, as the termination cost has to be paid
somehow, while with the same app on both ends, it's usually free.

a messaging app sends/receives messages, usually with both sides
needing the same app, although in some cases it can interoperate with
standard sms/mms messages. it's usually free, often with ads, but in
some cases, there may be fees or a limit on how many messages.

> Can you give an example of a voip app and a messaging app? I could then
> check those out and I'll know what they are and can then check other similar
> apps.

<http://www.androidauthority.com/best-android-apps-voip-sip-calls-wi-fi-
calling-internet-calling-87396/>
<http://www.androidauthority.com/best-texting-apps-for-android-653970/>

there are others too.

[Yanis Bernard]

Ken1943 said:

> Do a Google search for android free calls & android free
> texting. Bunch of hits with the search.

It's not that simple because the details matter and almost nobody considers
the details when they write the crap that the OP will find by a simple
search.

The key question that the OP needs to clarify is whether he has a SIM card
or not.

The other key question is whether the OP wants to make and receive calls
and texts for free to and from any "real" phone.

It's easy to find tons of crap that don't make the distinction I just made
above, but without that distinction, all advice (including mine) is just
crap.

[Yanis Bernard]

TomR said:

> Can you give an example of a voip app and a messaging app? I could then
> check those out and I'll know what they are and can then check other similar
> apps.

The VOIP app of choice is Google Hangouts & Google Voice which will give
you a phone number that makes and receives calls and texts to and from
"real" phones, for free, if you're in the USA.

All other VOIP apps that make and receive calls and texts to "real" phones
will cost you money (not much though).

If you don't want to make and receive calls and texts to "real" phones,
then you have more choices such as Skype and WhatApp and Telegram.

One other free choice that makes and receives calls to "real" phones, which
I use frequently (but I have a SIM card and I never tested it without the
SIM card) is Sideline.

If you don't have a SIM card, I'd try Sideline first because it gives you a
"real" phone number. Let us know if it works without a SIM.

Otherwise, Google Voice will give you a "real" phone number also but I
don't know if it works without a SIM card (it certainly works with a SIM
card).

So, let us know if you have a SIM card (you can get them for free but I
forget the name of the company but it has been discussed here before).

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 13:01:24 -0500, "TomR"

<To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm> wrote:

>My friend has a young son with an Android phone, but with no paid phone
>service on the phone. My friend also has Cable Internet with a WiFi modem
>at home.
>
>Currently, his young son is able to use the WiFi connection at home to
>download and play free games and Apps from the Google Play Store. He can
>also use his phone to take pictures and videos and he can store them on his
>father's laptop by plugging in a USB cable to the laptop and transferring
>the photos and videos.
>
>My question is whether his son can use his Android phone with no paid phone
>service to make and receive phone calls and send and receive texts -- and
>maybe also send and receive photos. Mostly, his son would like to be able
>to do this with his son's mother who does not live with them.

I almost posted on this very topic, the same questions, yesterday. What
a coincidence.

>If I could figure out how this all works, I could help my friend get it all
>set up on his son's phone. I heard that there may be free Apps like
>Hangouts that can do these things for free, but when I try looking into it I
>can't tell exactly how they would work.

I saw Hangout recommended too. It will send, (and I'm sure receive)
texts and even video calls (which seems to imply non-video calls.) and
you can call up to 9 people at a time. How many grandparents, aunts,
and uncles does he have? Ah, they list phone calls after video calls.
"Almost all calls to the US and Canada are free from all countries where
Hangouts calling is available. A few US and Canadian destinations cost
1 cent per minute" -- this is a reminder that he'll need a google
account, with it seems to me to be saying, a charge card attached to it
to call those few numbers, but knowing google, he'll probably need an
account to call anyone -- Yes, I see that now, on the Learn More page
that Hangouts offers when you start it. -- even if he doesn't need to
attach a credit card.

Of course Skype charges 2 or 3cent a mnute to call a real phone number,
which requires buying skype credits which requires givging them a charge
card number (or maybe paypal).

>And, I can't tell if Hangouts, for example, would enable my friend's son to
>send and receive texts, photos, and phone calls to/from any cell phone -- or
>if it would only work if the other person also has the same App installed

Not suer abou thangouts, but Whatsapp is like that. The other party's
phone has to be on and the app running, but (and I've only used it once)
since the number was in my contact list, when I looked at the entry, it
SAID she had whatsapp running. Isn't that amazing? Even before I
dialed, it ran all the way to another continent and checked if the app
was running.

But certainly not everyone has that and if they're anything like me,
they don't leave their cell phone on that much. Although I see you
only asked about calling a cell phone, not a home phone.

Whatsapp added another step to calling someone, because after you dial,
it asks how you want to call, whatsapp or the dialer and at one point
Iiirc I had to go even to one more page to finally call. But I'm sure
the kid can handle that, when the choice is nothing.

There is wifi all over the place so this seems like a good plan to me.
I was at Sears and they had it, and the map of the mostly one-story mall
showed two areas where there was free wifi.

>such as Hangouts (for example).
>
>Can anyone here suggest a way for me to set up my friend's son's phone to do
>these things for free? Which App or Apps should I try? Will they work in
>sending to/from ANY cell phone, or just to/from cell phones that have the
>same App installed?

Skype** for Android will call any phone by dialing its phone number, so
it will call any cell phone except one like this kid's, because it has
no phone number. But skype will also call any other skype user by
entering his skype id. I presume that would work even to call this kid,
if his phone were on and skype were running. I'm going by what skype
for a pc will do. I haven't used it on a phone, although I have
installed it, and it seemed to set up fine with my userid and password,
and even showed the same contact list that I have on the PC (which
plainly resides at the Skype computer and not on my computer).

Last night I tried to use Hangout, but I don't have it on my old phone.
I tried to download several apps and most it refused to start but
MyPhoneExplorer is under a meg, I think, and it dl'd it but then said
there was not enough space to install it. Should I ask here or should
I start a new thread to ask what apps I can uninstall to make room for
something I need. I would have thought

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 13:01:24 -0500, "TomR"
<To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm> wrote:

>

>And, I can't tell if Hangouts, for example, would enable my friend's son to
>send and receive texts, photos, and phone calls to/from any cell phone -- or
>if it would only work if the other person also has the same App installed
>such as Hangouts (for example).

Requires v. 2.3 or higher.

So I tried to set up and to verify my phone number it said to "enter the
code", which appears to have 4 numbers. What code? I'm stymied.

But I do have whatsapp working.

[Ken Blake]

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 13:47:07 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <o48t78$3it$1...@dont-email.me>, TomR <To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm>
>wrote:
>
>> >> My question is whether his son can use his Android phone with no paid
>> >> phone
>> >> service to make and receive phone calls and send and receive texts -- and
>> >> maybe also send and receive photos. Mostly, his son would like to be
>> >> able
>> >> to do this with his son's mother who does not live with them.
>> >
>> >get a voip app and a messaging app. plenty of choices.
>>
>> Thanks. Sorry, but I don't quite know what that means.
>
>a voip app, otherwise known as voice over ip, lets you make/receive
>phone calls using an internet connection rather than a cellular (or
>landline) connection. there may be fees involved, depending on the app
>and the voip service (if any). if you call to/fro a normal phone, there
>more than likely will be fees,

Google Voice is free.

[TomR]

"Yanis Bernard" wrote in message news:o48v3h$kqb$3...@news.mixmin.net...

Thanks.

I'll check out Google Hangouts and Google Voice and see how it works etc. I
am in the USA (East Coast), and this would only be for within-USA calls and
texts.

I may also check out Skype and WhatApp and Telegram, but I am not sure if I
will do that -- mostly because I think they may require that the person
being called also have the same app installed on their end for the call to
be free.

I think the phone has a SIM card -- looks like it when I open it up. It is
a StraightTalk cell phone but does not have a StraightTalk service set up in
it, so no minutes and not phone number assigned to the phone. The model of
the phone is Alcatel OneTouch A621BL.

I will also look into SideLine to see what that is etc.

[TomR]

"nospam" wrote in message news:311220161347071844%nos...@nospam.invalid...

Thanks. I'll check out those links and see what they say.

[TomR]

"Yanis Bernard" wrote in message news:o48v3g$kqb$2...@news.mixmin.net...

Thanks again, Yanis.

And, yes, the details do matter. For example, when I did the Google
search, I found web pages such as the following, and the "Wrap Up" on that
page explains a lot of the caveats and contingencies for the various apps:
http://www.androidauthority.com/top-best-free-calls-android-phones-voip-19829/

"Wrap up:

Unfortunately, most of these applications have the same issue in that they
only deliver free calls if both parties are using the same app. So if you
have Skype, you can make phone calls to anyone but it’s only free if the
other person is using Skype as well. This presents a unique paradox in that
these apps are all not technically 100% free but they are free if you follow
the rules. For now, there aren’t many reliable services that call landlines
that are free. For now, your best bet is to use these and talk your friends
and family into using them too. One day, we’ll all be doing it anyway! As
usual if we missed a great app, let us know in the comments below."

In the situation that I am describing, the young son's phone appears to have
a SIM card. And, while it would be nice to be able to call a "real" phone
for free via his WiFi connection, that may not be a necessity since the main
person he would be calling would be his mother who only has a cell phone.
Still, it would be good if he could call other numbers, including "real"
landline phones etc.

My hunch is that the Google Hangouts and Google Voice combo will end up
being the best option for what he needs. I'll try it, but it may take a day
or 2 for me to get to it. I'll post back here how it worked out.

[TomR]

"micky" wrote in message news:jfuf6ctneb1smpcjn...@4ax.com...

>Last night I tried to use Hangout, but I don't have it on my old phone.
>I tried to download several apps and most it refused to start but
>MyPhoneExplorer is under a meg, I think, and it dl'd it but then said
>there was not enough space to install it. Should I ask here or should
>I start a new thread to ask what apps I can uninstall to make room for
>something I need. I would have thought

I'll start a new thread about the storage space issue because I was thinking
of doing that anyway.

In the meantime, I have a 32 GB MicroSD card in my phone, so I downloaded an
app that is supposed to move some apps from the internal phone storage area
to the SD card. The app is really easy to use, but it looks like only a few
of the apps on my phone are able to be moved from internal storage to the SD
card. The rest cannot be moved.

The app that I downloaded is called AppMgr III.

You may want to try uninstalling whatever apps you can uninstall to get a
little more space, then download AppMgr III and try moving some apps from
internal storage to your SD card -- but, of course, only if you have an SD
card installed or want to buy one and put it in.

[The Real Bev]

On 12/31/2016 10:38 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 31.12.16 um 19:01 schrieb TomR:
>> If I could figure out how this all works, I could help my friend get it all
>> set up on his son's phone. I heard that there may be free Apps like
>> Hangouts that can do these things for free, but when I try looking into it I
>> can't tell exactly how they would work.
>
> Let this young boy do the stuff. In case he really wants to do it, he
> will figure it out.

+10!

Hangouts and the hangouts dialer will do what's wanted PROVIDING you can
log in to a wifi network -- friend, relative, McDonald's, etc. You can
do this with a tablet, no phone required.

If there's a slot for a SIM in your GSM phone/tablet/whatever you can
buy a Freedompop SIM for $5.00 or less which will allow limited abmounts
of talk, text and data for free. Using it to use GasBuddy to look for
cheap gas stations in New Mexico and Arizona used 2 or 3 MB per use.

https://forums.freedompop.com/discussion/16059/freedompops-plans-and-value-added-services-updated-8-28-2016

T-Mobile offers a SIM with 200 MB of free data per month, but I haven't
been able to get it to work -- it keeps telling me to deposit $3, which
is WRONG.

--
Cheers, Bev
They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't
we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys,
it's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it any more.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per TomR:

>My question is whether his son can use his Android phone with no paid phone
>service to make and receive phone calls and send and receive texts -- and
>maybe also send and receive photos. Mostly, his son would like to be able
>to do this with his son's mother who does not live with them.

Does the mother have an android phone or tablet?

If so, maybe give WeChat a try.

There are lots of freebie communication-type apps out there, but
WeChat's claim to fame for me is that it incorporates many means into a
single app: Voice Phone, Video Phone, Texting, leaving voice messages,
sending pix, and so-forth.

The hitch, of course, is that both persons have to have WeChat
installed.

The only gripe I have with WeChat is that it needs a WiFi connection. It
would be nice if they could make it optionally use the phone's telephone
system like plain old texting does.
--
Pete Cresswell

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 12:15:17 -0700, Ken Blake

Did I hear that that comes with its own phone number? Or that it
interacts with the cell phone's phone number? something like that.

[Yanis Bernard]

(PeteCresswell) said:

> Does the mother have an android phone or tablet?

As TheRealBev said, if it's a SIM-enabled tablet, then T-Mobile will give
you for about $10 or $15 a SIM card that gives you 200MB/month of data for
life for free.

Add GV+Hangouts to that tablet, and the tablet becomes a "real"
speakerphone, able to send/receive calls to/from the USA for free.

This I have done so I know it works well.

The phone number of the tablet isn't what people call.
They call the GV phone number that Google gives you when you set up Google
VOice.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> I saw Hangout recommended too. It will send, (and I'm sure receive)
> texts and even video calls (which seems to imply non-video calls.) and
> you can call up to 9 people at a time.

I don't remember which gives which, but with just Hangouts, I couldn't
send/receive texts, but adding Google Voice enabled me to send/receive
texts.

I set this up more than a year ago, so I haven't tested the SMS part
recently since I only use Hangouts for the free sending/receiving of phone
calls to/from real phone lines.

> "Almost all calls to the US and Canada are free from all countries where
> Hangouts calling is available. A few US and Canadian destinations cost
> 1 cent per minute"

I've never paid for a call on Hangouts so I'm curious what kind of phone
call costs money to/from the USA?

I guess collect calls and 900 calls cost money so is that what the fine
print is talking about?

Or are there gotcha numbers that cost money on Hangouts?

> -- this is a reminder that he'll need a google
> account, with it seems to me to be saying, a charge card attached to it
> to call those few numbers, but knowing google, he'll probably need an
> account to call anyone -- Yes, I see that now, on the Learn More page
> that Hangouts offers when you start it. -- even if he doesn't need to
> attach a credit card.

I don't have a credit card attached to Hangouts and it works fine for USA
calls. I'm sure if I called Pakistan, it would try to charge me, but for
USA calls, they work fine without charge.

> Of course Skype charges 2 or 3cent a mnute to call a real phone number,
> which requires buying skype credits which requires givging them a charge
> card number (or maybe paypal).

I think Skype has SkypeIN and SkypeOut which are their pay plans.
Plus I don't know if that handles SMS or not.

Seems to me that for free USA calls & free SMS to/from real phone numbers,
Hangouts+GV beats Skype hands down.

>>And, I can't tell if Hangouts, for example, would enable my friend's son to
>>send and receive texts, photos, and phone calls to/from any cell phone -- or

>>if it would only work if the other person also has the same App installed.

I have used Hangouts+GV to send/receive SMS to others so that part works
from/to any phone on this earth for free, but remember you're using the GV
phone number (and not your real phone number) to send/receive those SMS
texts.

> Not suer abou thangouts, but Whatsapp is like that. The other party's
> phone has to be on and the app running, but (and I've only used it once)
> since the number was in my contact list, when I looked at the entry, it
> SAID she had whatsapp running. Isn't that amazing? Even before I
> dialed, it ran all the way to another continent and checked if the app
> was running.

Hangouts+GV is like WhatsApp on steroids.

The Hangouts+GV interface sucks but what it can do is everything all the
other VOIP apps can do plus it can send/receive calls/SMS to/from real
phones (for free if the calls are to the USA).

If the interface wasn't so crappy, it would kill all the others instantly
simply because it does everything anyone could want it to do.

> But certainly not everyone has that and if they're anything like me,
> they don't leave their cell phone on that much. Although I see you
> only asked about calling a cell phone, not a home phone.

Hangouts+GV has no problem calling a landline in the USA for free.

> Whatsapp added another step to calling someone, because after you dial,
> it asks how you want to call, whatsapp or the dialer and at one point
> Iiirc I had to go even to one more page to finally call. But I'm sure
> the kid can handle that, when the choice is nothing.

I can't see any advantage to WhatsApp (or other similar VOIP) in the USA.

In Brazil, it's the number one app because of their cellular plans.
But in the USA, where most of our calls are free anyway, it's useless.

If you want free phone calls and SMS to/from real phone lines, and to/from
computer-to-computer, the only solution that I know of that works (in the
USA) is GoogleVoice plus Hangouts.

The interface sucks. But the technology works.

[Yanis Bernard]

The Real Bev said:

> T-Mobile offers a SIM with 200 MB of free data per month, but I haven't
> been able to get it to work -- it keeps telling me to deposit $3, which
> is WRONG.

That only works for tablets, but it should work on your tablet unless
you're using an iPad which, set up by default, will suck that 200MB in no
time flat.

Using Android shouldn't be a problem because the defaults are more
realistic, nor for an iPad with the default sync feature set to not sync
anything but basic needs.

[Yanis Bernard]

TomR said:

> Unfortunately, most of these applications have the same issue in that they
> only deliver free calls if both parties are using the same app.

Yes. The fact that both users must be on the same app is a critical point,
which makes most of those apps useless for general use.

Also, almost none of those apps will send/receive calls/text to/from a
"real" phone number.

Only two apps do that to my knowledge (I'm sure there are more), at least
for free in the USA.
1. GoogleVoice/Hangouts
2. Sideline

But, both of those I use on both WiFi-calling and Cellular-calling using a
SIM card with active cellular service (with or without data). So I don't
know what happens if you don't have a SIM card or a cellular plan with
those two apps.

To be sure, Skype/Telegram/WhatsApp/whatever VOIP will work fine if you
don't have those two requirements above (in that they will work without a
SIM card and without any cellular minutes or cellular data if you're on
WiFi).

But the moment you go out of the bounds of what those apps do, they fail
miserably (which is why I consider then next to worthless for general use).

> So if you
> have Skype, you can make phone calls to anyone but it?s only free if the

> other person is using Skype as well.

I don't think that statement is true but I could be wrong.
a. With Skype, you can make/receive any "computer" connection for free.
b. But if you want to receive a call from a "real" phone, I think that
costs you money (I think they call it SkypeIn but I'm not sure).
c. And if you want to make a call to a "real" phone number, I think that
also costs you money (I think they call it SkypeOut but I'm not sure).

So, Skype (or WhatsApp or Telegram, etc.) can make and receive any
computer-to-computer (where your phone is a computer) connection, and those
are always free.

But "real" phone calls and real SMS are a different matter that very few
apps give you for free.

> This presents a unique paradox in that
> these apps are all not technically 100% free but they are free if you follow

> the rules. For now, there aren?t many reliable services that call landlines
> that are free.

I think only GoogleVoice+Hangouts is free for "real" in/out USA calls.
Long ago, Skype for "real" outgoing calls in the USA was free but no more.
Same with Viber as I recall.

> In the situation that I am describing, the young son's phone appears to have
> a SIM card. And, while it would be nice to be able to call a "real" phone
> for free via his WiFi connection, that may not be a necessity since the main
> person he would be calling would be his mother who only has a cell phone.
> Still, it would be good if he could call other numbers, including "real"
> landline phones etc.

If all he's doing is calling one person who has a cellphone, then any of
the VOIP products will work "if".

If the mother is on the net (either with a cellular data plan or with WiFi)
and if the kid is also on the net (on WiFi because we assume he doesn't
have a cellular data plan).

Once both are on the Internet, then *any* VOIP solution will work because
it will be computer-to-computer and not POTS-to-Computer or vice versa.

POTS = a real phone (for this purpose, whether cellular or landline).

> My hunch is that the Google Hangouts and Google Voice combo will end up
> being the best option for what he needs. I'll try it, but it may take a day
> or 2 for me to get to it. I'll post back here how it worked out.

I'm not sure why it requires both Google Voice + Google Hangouts by the
way, but it does.

The Google Hangouts allows him, as I recall, to phone anyone in the USA on
a real phone for free, and the Google Voice allows SMS text.

In addition, the Google Voice gives him a "real" phone number which anyone
on the planet can call.

I don't know if a SIM card or cellular phone service is required though, as
I have that already, so it all works fine for me. Let us know if Google
Voice plus Google Hangouts works for you under your situation.

If not, you can use any VOIP program as long as both people are on the same
program - but it's always better to be a "real" phone than to be a computer
phone.

[Yanis Bernard]

TomR said:

> I'll check out Google Hangouts and Google Voice and see how it works etc. I
> am in the USA (East Coast), and this would only be for within-USA calls and
> texts.

I have a SIM card so everything I say below relates to having a SIM card.

1. If you use almost all VOIP programs that people suggested, they will NOT
allow you to make phone calls to and from "real" USA numbers. For example,
AFAIK, WhatsApp will NOT make calls to/from real phone numbers, and Skype
will not make calls to/from real phone numbers without you paying extra.

2. The only two tools I know of that will make calls to/from real phone
numbers are tools that *give* you a phone number! Two tools that give you a
USA phone number, for free are GoogleVoice+Hangouts and Sideline.

3. The caveat is that I tested both using a phone that has a SIM card and a
phone number already (where I essentially have 3 phone numbers);
a. The original phone number from the carrier
b. A free google voice phone number
c. A free sideline phone number

All three phone numbers can make and receive calls for free to/from USA
"real" phone numbers in my setup. YMMV depending on your carrier & plan.

> I may also check out Skype and WhatApp and Telegram, but I am not sure if I
> will do that -- mostly because I think they may require that the person
> being called also have the same app installed on their end for the call to
> be free.

I think it's ridiculous to expect everyone you contact to have the same app
as you have.

So, for me, Skype, Telegram, WhatsApp, Facetime, etc., are almost useless
(IMHO).

> I think the phone has a SIM card -- looks like it when I open it up. It is
> a StraightTalk cell phone but does not have a StraightTalk service set up in
> it, so no minutes and not phone number assigned to the phone. The model of
> the phone is Alcatel OneTouch A621BL.

I'm not a hardware guy so the others can help on the hardware capabilities
with a SIM card and no plan.

If your phone can be called when you are on WiFi, then the options I
suggested will work and they are superior to all other suggestions because
they will allow you free phone calls to/from anyone in the USA and free SMS
to/from anyone in the world on a "real" phone.

If you don't need a "real" phone to contact you or for you to contact a
"real" phone, then all the options everyone else suggested will work as
long as your recipient is using the same software.

> I will also look into SideLine to see what that is etc.

Here's how I use sideline to give you an idea of what it is:
1. I want to sell something on Craigslist but I don't want to give out my
real phone number for calls and texts related to that ad.
2. I download and install sideline and it gives me a real phone number that
can be called from/to any phone number in the USA for free and to/from any
SMS phone number in the world for free.
3. When I'm done with the Craigslist ad, I delete Sideline and the phone
number vaporizes.

But I have a SIM card and a regular calling plan, which I don't know if
Sideline uses or not (probably does).

[VanguardLH]

Get a free Google Voice account. That gives you an actual phone number
to which you can receive calls and also make them. VOIP apps work over
the Internet to connect to other VOIP endpoints. That won't work to
call someone's phone number or let them call you from a phone number.

Install the Google Voice app on the smartphone and configure it. If you
want every callee to see your Google Voice number (instead of the
Voice2Go number mentioned below) then configure the Google Voice app to
handle all outbound calls. The outbound call (whether via cellular
voice or wi-fi voice) goes to a Google POP (Point of Presence) at a
telco they choose and changes the Caller ID info to make it look like
the call originated from your Google Voice phone number. However, what
you see in your phone's display is you calling the Google Voice center
rather than the person you are calling.

Then install the Google Hangouts Dialer app. The Google Hangouts apps
is probably pre-installed but you need to add its Dialer companion app.
Now you can make phone calls via wi-fi from the phone to call the phone
numbers of anyone with one, and callers can call you from their phone
number.

Because Google Voice has voicemail, you get alerts when someone left you
a message. Either the Hangouts Dialer via Hangouts will tell you about
the new voicemail or you can configure Google Voice to send an e-mail
alert (i.e., you get an e-mail about new voicemail).

To get the full benefit of SMS in the Hangouts app, change your Google
Voice account to use Google's Hangout service. Then you can use either
the Google Hangouts site (hangouts.google.com) or the Hangouts app to do
texting.

You should also check who is the ISP at his home. If Comcast, they have
their own wi-fi app to make calls (to and from phone numbers, not just
VOIP users). The problem is that a phone number has to be assigned to
his member account at Comcast. Since he is not paying for Comcast, get
his parent(s) to create a Comcast member account for him (if he does not
yet have one) which lets him have his own e-mail account there. Once he
has a member account, have the owner go under voice settings in their
account to create a new Voice2Go phone number. This is free. An owner
can create up to 6 Voice2Go numbers. You have to wait after issuing the
request for it to change from Pend status to Assigned status. Then the
owner can assign one, or more, of the available non-pending Voice2Go
numbers to the owner account or to any of the member accounts. If that
account is ever deleted, the Voice2Go number assigned to it is lost,
too.

After getting the Comcast/Xfinity account configured to add to it a
Voice2Go number, install Comcast's Connect app where you can do texting.
When making an outbound phone call, a prompt will appear asking which
dialer you want to use to actually make the call. Select the Connect
app to make a wi-fi call. Incoming calls to the Voice2Go number will
ring the app. Voice2Go includes voicemail, too.

If you are never going to add cellular voice service to the phone, when
the prompt appears asking which dialer to use then select the Connect
app and tap on the Always button. That will eliminate seeing the prompt
each time; however, you will have to clear the app's data (and have to
reenter your account login) if you ever want the prompt to reappear.

When I make a call, I get an intervening prompt asking if I want to use
Phone (built-in cellular phone service), Connect (Comcast's wi-fi), or
Google Voice (wi-fi calling). I do NOT click on Always because instead
I always want to see the prompt of which dialer and access method to
use. Even if I have cellular phone service and get a good signal
wherever I happen to be, I might want to save on my cellular call
minutes by using wi-fi if available. I don't bother with overpriced
unlimited calling plans. I use Tracfone whose unused minutes rollover
(as long as I keep an account open with them). I don't make that many
calls so I always have lots of unused minutes to rollover into the next
subscription. So the parents could get a Tracfone account for their kid
and not pay much but the kid could save those limited minutes for more
important calls and use wi-fi calling to make/receive calls - but that
only works if he is in range of a wi-fi hotspot. He has a hotspot at
home but when away from home there are lots of free wi-fi hotspots.
They are not as pervasive as cellular coverage and why having some
cellular call time would still help, like when the kid has an emergency
and needs to call home or anytime he is not in wi-fi range.

With wi-fi calling (not VOIPing), I use little of my cellular call
minutes, so I get a lot of rollover with Tracfone. In fact, at my home,
I have to use wi-fi calling. Signal strength at home for cellular voice
is way too weak. I don't get incoming calls and outbound calls are
unreliable (might not be able to start a call or it cuts up or
disconnects during the call). So wi-fi calling using Google Voice and
Hangouts Dialer is how I do cell phone calling via wi-fi from home. I'd
have to install a tall antenna and amplifer costing several hundred
dollars to maybe get a better cellular signal at home. Don't need to
waste the money and instead use free Google Voice service with the
Google Voice and Hangouts Dialer apps on the smartphone and, as a
backup, also have a Voice2Go number assigned to my Comcast account and
use their Connect app on the smartphone. I have 2 means of wi-fi
calling (in and out) which connects to phone numbers.

VOIP limits me to other users with VOIP apps. I did have the Skype app
installed along with a Microsoft (Outlook.com) account. The number of
folks that also had Skype that I wanted to talk with was a very small
community (less than the fingers on one hand) so it got little use.
Because it got used so little meant I was clumsy at using it. I did buy
3 years of Office 365 subscription which gives me something like 60
minutes of free calling (to phone numbers, not just VOIP) per month but
I never ended up using it. The other above mentioned wi-fi calling
setups were easier to use. Without the included phone minutes, all I'd
get with Skype is VOIP and that doesn't interest me nor do I know many
folks (that I want to talk with) that have Skype. I used to leave Skype
installed as yet another backup wi-fi phone calling setup; however, I
grew weary of it always crashing soon after powering up the smartphone
(I'd get a message that com.<something>.skype had stopped which meant it
was useless), so I uninstalled it. I really didn't need a 3rd wi-fi
calling option, especially one with limited minutes per month, when I
had 2 free and unlimited wi-fi calling options (Google Voice, Comcast).

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:29:48 +0100, Yanis

Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>
>But I have a SIM card and a regular calling plan, which I don't know if
>Sideline uses or not (probably does).

What one of us could do, but I'm not willing to, is take the SIM card
out of the phone and see what still works.

I'm pretty sure Whatsapp would. I got it becuase there is only one
person I call in Europe and it's probably better to call her cell phone
and she uses whatsapp too, in fact she told me about it.

Skype does charge to call a real phone number but it's under 3 cents a
minute within the US and Canada, etc, not that much more to foreign
coutries (except cell phones which are often/usually? more). That's a
lot for a local call, but when I had no long distance service, and when
my DSL worked yet my home phone didn't, it enabled me to make a few
necessary calls. (using the PC)


I have another phone with no SIM card that does access wifi, but it only
had room for one app and even if I removed that, I don't think there
would be room for any of the apps discussed in this thread.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:29:47 +0100, Yanis

Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>
>> So if you
>> have Skype, you can make phone calls to anyone but it?s only free if the
>> other person is using Skype as well.
>
>I don't think that statement is true but I could be wrong.
>a. With Skype, you can make/receive any "computer" connection for free.
>b. But if you want to receive a call from a "real" phone, I think that
>costs you money (I think they call it SkypeIn but I'm not sure).

Definitely. I wonder if the free and cheap outgoing calls are there to
get you using Skype and maybe they make more money when you pay for an
incoming number. You have to pay in advance of course, You can't wait
until someone calls you!

>c. And if you want to make a call to a "real" phone number, I think that
>also costs you money (I think they call it SkypeOut but I'm not sure).

It didnt' used to have a special name, but maybe now it does.

>So, Skype (or WhatsApp or Telegram, etc.) can make and receive any
>computer-to-computer (where your phone is a computer) connection, and those
>are always free.
>
>But "real" phone calls and real SMS are a different matter that very few
>apps give you for free.
>
>> This presents a unique paradox in that
>> these apps are all not technically 100% free but they are free if you follow
>> the rules. For now, there aren?t many reliable services that call landlines
>> that are free.
>
>I think only GoogleVoice+Hangouts is free for "real" in/out USA calls.
>Long ago, Skype for "real" outgoing calls in the USA was free but no more.

That would have been before my time.

>Same with Viber as I recall.
>
>> In the situation that I am describing, the young son's phone appears to have
>> a SIM card. And, while it would be nice to be able to call a "real" phone
>> for free via his WiFi connection, that may not be a necessity since the main
>> person he would be calling would be his mother who only has a cell phone.
>> Still, it would be good if he could call other numbers, including "real"
>> landline phones etc.
>
>If all he's doing is calling one person who has a cellphone, then any of
>the VOIP products will work "if".
>
>If the mother is on the net (either with a cellular data plan or with WiFi)
>and if the kid is also on the net (on WiFi because we assume he doesn't
>have a cellular data plan).
>
>Once both are on the Internet, then *any* VOIP solution will work because
>it will be computer-to-computer and not POTS-to-Computer or vice versa.
>
>POTS = a real phone (for this purpose, whether cellular or landline).
>
>> My hunch is that the Google Hangouts and Google Voice combo will end up
>> being the best option for what he needs. I'll try it, but it may take a day
>> or 2 for me to get to it. I'll post back here how it worked out.
>
>I'm not sure why it requires both Google Voice + Google Hangouts by the
>way, but it does.

AIUI, in some circles, DUO is replacing Hangouts. I wanted one or the
other mostly so when a friend of mine takes her walks and finds a
turtle, I can see what it looks like.

I saw nothing about needing Voice for Duo, (or for Hangouts either so
that shows how little I know.)

>The Google Hangouts allows him, as I recall, to phone anyone in the USA on
>a real phone for free, and the Google Voice allows SMS text.

That would account for it. I don't care about texting. They used to
run commercials showing someone reading a text during a funeral, and I
agree that if you're at a funeral, it's better to read a text than let
your phone ring and talk on it, but otherwise, I think phone
conversations deliver so much more information in less time, with
immediate feedback from the other person. Of course you can text to
several people at once.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:29:43 +0100, Yanis

Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>micky said:
>
>> I saw Hangout recommended too. It will send, (and I'm sure receive)
>> texts and even video calls (which seems to imply non-video calls.) and
>> you can call up to 9 people at a time.
>
>I don't remember which gives which, but with just Hangouts, I couldn't
>send/receive texts, but adding Google Voice enabled me to send/receive
>texts.

I was reading from the Hangouts Learn More file when I wrote that,
although it's still possible I adlibbed there. I'll check again if
someone asks.

>I set this up more than a year ago, so I haven't tested the SMS part
>recently since I only use Hangouts for the free sending/receiving of phone
>calls to/from real phone lines.
>
>> "Almost all calls to the US and Canada are free from all countries where
>> Hangouts calling is available. A few US and Canadian destinations cost
>> 1 cent per minute"
>
>I've never paid for a call on Hangouts so I'm curious what kind of phone
>call costs money to/from the USA?

Maybe CIA phones?

>I guess collect calls and 900 calls cost money so is that what the fine
>print is talking about?

I woudl say that no one makes collect calls anymore, but I should tell
about the time I was driving back to Baltimore for an organization
dinner that night, and when I realized I wouldn't make it in time, I
stopped at a pay phone in W. Virginia -- This was 10 years ago but I'm
sure at some phones things are the same -- and lucky me, I asked how
much the call would cost before I made it. $27 for 3 minutes. !!! I
skipped that and later the manager of a tiny museum let me use her
phone. Didn't even want any money.

But 900 numbers are still around.

>Or are there gotcha numbers that cost money on Hangouts?

Yes, but Not sure how they could bill you, however.

>
>> -- this is a reminder that he'll need a google
>> account, with it seems to me to be saying, a charge card attached to it
>> to call those few numbers, but knowing google, he'll probably need an
>> account to call anyone -- Yes, I see that now, on the Learn More page
>> that Hangouts offers when you start it. -- even if he doesn't need to
>> attach a credit card.
>
>I don't have a credit card attached to Hangouts and it works fine for USA
>calls. I'm sure if I called Pakistan, it would try to charge me, but for
>USA calls, they work fine without charge.

But you do have a google account, right, just one with no charge card?

>
>> Of course Skype charges 2 or 3cent a mnute to call a real phone number,
>> which requires buying skype credits which requires givging them a charge
>> card number (or maybe paypal).
>
>I think Skype has SkypeIN and SkypeOut which are their pay plans.
>Plus I don't know if that handles SMS or not.
>
>Seems to me that for free USA calls & free SMS to/from real phone numbers,
>Hangouts+GV beats Skype hands down.

Skype has been around longer**, it works on the PC, and provides the
same contact list without my doing anything

**Before Skype was Net2Fon, which promised me a headset when I signed up
and didn't send it, and which folded, I think with $3 of my money still
in their account. You're probably not interested in all this history.

>>>And, I can't tell if Hangouts, for example, would enable my friend's son to
>>>send and receive texts, photos, and phone calls to/from any cell phone -- or
>>>if it would only work if the other person also has the same App installed.
>
>I have used Hangouts+GV to send/receive SMS to others so that part works
>from/to any phone on this earth for free, but remember you're using the GV
>phone number (and not your real phone number) to send/receive those SMS
>texts.
>
>> Not suer abou thangouts, but Whatsapp is like that. The other party's
>> phone has to be on and the app running, but (and I've only used it once)
>> since the number was in my contact list, when I looked at the entry, it
>> SAID she had whatsapp running. Isn't that amazing? Even before I
>> dialed, it ran all the way to another continent and checked if the app
>> was running.
>
>Hangouts+GV is like WhatsApp on steroids.

My coach won't let me use steroids.

>The Hangouts+GV interface sucks but what it can do is everything all the
>other VOIP apps can do plus it can send/receive calls/SMS to/from real
>phones (for free if the calls are to the USA).
>
>If the interface wasn't so crappy, it would kill all the others instantly
>simply because it does everything anyone could want it to do.

>...

[mike]

I set mine up two years ago, so YMMV.
Google Voice will give you a USA phone number for free...although it
may not be in your desired area code...depends on availability.
Mine shows up as in a town 30 miles away.

Google is NOT a phone company. They can't connect you to POTS services.
If they did, they'd be subject to regulations and taxes and fees, etc.
So my google voice account links to an account on my OBI.
You have to buy
the OBI box, but can use it for free. It sits on your network. Plug a
phone into it and all your GV calls go there.
The interesting part is that GV can forward your calls to any other US
number. It can also send your calls to your hangouts account on your
tablet/phone
as long as it has a wireless network connection.

When you call my GV number, it rings the OBI box and a cellphone with
service and any of my phone/tablets that are currently connected to the
internet and running hangouts.
GV hangouts dialer lets you call from your networked tablet/phone As I
recall, my OBI box can call any other OBI
box worldwide for free. But it uses a special address. Not sure if that
will pass through google voice dialing system.

All this works fine as long as you have a real phone or some interface
like OBI online. It's gonna ring whatever phone that gets connected to.
Perfect for me, but if you want a separate line for a kid that doesn't
interact with your existing phone, that can be a problem.

You can get a prepaid phone account thru PagePlus/Verizon that costs as
little as
$10 every 120 days. I think that only works with non-smart phones.
Smartphones cost you more.
I believe you can link your GV account to that
and just leave it turned off.
I don't think GV actually needs/uses the phone system. They exploit
holes in the taxation system and do whatever they want.

If you ever need an emergency phone
on the Verizon network, you have one at 10-cents/minute thru PagePlus.

Freedompop will give you a phone number and limited voice/data budget
for free. They're a little dodgy, but that might work for your base
account.

MagicJack is another alternative. Not free, but cheap. There's a magicjack
app that runs on your tablet/phone and accesses your MJ account
and gets you on the POTS system. Last I checked, you can get a MJ
account in the US and send it to a foreign country. They'll have a US
phone number and call US for free.

There are many cheap cell plans, but they're chock full of restrictions.
Check the reviews.



Are we having fun yet?

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> I was reading from the Hangouts Learn More file when I wrote that,
> although it's still possible I adlibbed there. I'll check again if
> someone asks.

I believe you so there is no need to check.
There are probably some USA phone numbers such as voting for America's Best
Singer (or whatever) which cost money. Likewise with 900 calls.

So, it's probably "special" numbers cost money, but it's not enough to
worry about because if they do cost money, they won't go through anyway
since I have no credit card on my phone.

> I woudl say that no one makes collect calls anymore, but I should tell
> about the time I was driving back to Baltimore for an organization
> dinner that night, and when I realized I wouldn't make it in time, I
> stopped at a pay phone in W. Virginia -- This was 10 years ago but I'm
> sure at some phones things are the same -- and lucky me, I asked how
> much the call would cost before I made it. $27 for 3 minutes. !!! I
> skipped that and later the manager of a tiny museum let me use her
> phone. Didn't even want any money.

I make collect calls from Europe to my carrier when I'm traveling.

They accept the charges without question, as long as you call the right
number in the USA for their international group.

> Skype has been around longer**, it works on the PC, and provides the

> same contact list without my doing anything.

I used Skype for something like a decade and I even have the $300 skype
phones (two of them) for traveling.

I don't use Skype anymore because GV/Hangouts does everything Skype does,
and more, and all for free. But there's nothing wrong with SKype if that's
what the other side is using.

> **Before Skype was Net2Fon, which promised me a headset when I signed up
> and didn't send it, and which folded, I think with $3 of my money still
> in their account. You're probably not interested in all this history.

You go further back than I do since I think my first VOIP was Skype when it
was free for a year for USA calls. I still have the account but I almost
never use it.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

>>Long ago, Skype for "real" outgoing calls in the USA was free but no more.
>
> That would have been before my time.

Long ago, Skype was free for one year, to/from the USA.
I used it that way for the entire year, so I know this was the case.

There was another program that was free that I used well after Skype, which
worked until Google changed their private calls and legally prevented them
from using those private calls. I forget which program that was.

So I searched at the time, and found that GoogleVoice/Hangouts did
everything and it did it for free. So on my Android tablet, I have it set
up as a telephone, for free.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> What one of us could do, but I'm not willing to, is take the SIM card
> out of the phone and see what still works.

I suspect Sideline will fail without the sim card but that
GoogleVoice/Hangouts will still work without the SIM card.

> I'm pretty sure Whatsapp would. I got it becuase there is only one
> person I call in Europe and it's probably better to call her cell phone
> and she uses whatsapp too, in fact she told me about it.

I'm not the one to describe the different types of VOIP, but WhatsApp is
the primitive kind (as is Skype, Telegram, etc.) where it will work just
fine on any computer.

This primitive type of VOIP (it has a name but I don't know what that name
is) doesn't call "real" phone numbers anyway, so the problem set is vastly
simpler if you're just going computer to computer.

> Skype does charge to call a real phone number but it's under 3 cents a
> minute within the US and Canada, etc, not that much more to foreign
> coutries (except cell phones which are often/usually? more).

Yes. This is the other type of VOIP that is not just computer to computer.
For money, Skype can call a real phone line (I think that's SKypeOut?).
For money, Skype can receive a real phone call (I think that's SkypeIn?).

But for free, GoogleVoice/Hangouts can do that and do SMS to/from real
phone lines in the USA (for calls) for free.

So what advantage does Skype have over GoogleVoice/Hangouts for calling or
receiving to/from a real phone?

Nothing.

If all you're doing is computer-to-computer, then the VOIP-selection caveat
is always the same, which is that you have to use whatever the other person
is using.

> That's a
> lot for a local call, but when I had no long distance service, and when
> my DSL worked yet my home phone didn't, it enabled me to make a few
> necessary calls. (using the PC)

Nothing wrong with paying for calls, but why pay when it's free?

> I have another phone with no SIM card that does access wifi, but it only
> had room for one app and even if I removed that, I don't think there
> would be room for any of the apps discussed in this thread.

Sounds like a candidate to test.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> Did I hear that that comes with its own phone number? Or that it
> interacts with the cell phone's phone number? something like that.

I don't know the underlying technology but what happens is that you get a
phone number where you can receive calls to that number and you can make
calls as that number.

Both GoogleVoice/Hangouts and Sideline give you a phone number that works
just like a real phone for both SMS & voice (and both are free in the USA
for the calls and everywhere for the SMS).

So your phone can easily have 3 different phone numbers:
1. Your carrier-supplied phone number
2. Your free GV/HO supplied phone number
3. Your free sideline supplied phone number

How the underlying technology woks is for someone else to explain.

[Yanis Bernard]

mike said:

> I don't think GV actually needs/uses the phone system. They exploit
> holes in the taxation system and do whatever they want.

This is interesting because I do have to pay tax on my Oooma but not on my
GV but they essentially do the same thing.

How does GV get past the tax system on my setup, which does not have an OBI
box?

I just have a phone with GV on it and an Android tablet with GV on it.
Both ring when someone calls me.

Does GV use the SIM card at all?

[tlvp]

On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 15:49:35 -0800, mike wrote:

> You can get a prepaid phone account thru PagePlus/Verizon that costs as
> little as
> $10 every 120 days.

True. I have one.

> ... I think that only works with non-smart phones.
> Smartphones cost you more.

Works exactly as described with Moto Droid X2, which does, I believe,
qualify as a "Smartphone". (Yet costs not a penny more.) Likewise for the
WinMo 6 Moto Q9m. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[nospam]

In article <o49bh1$dog$3...@news.mixmin.net>, Yanis Bernard

<YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>
> > T-Mobile offers a SIM with 200 MB of free data per month, but I haven't
> > been able to get it to work -- it keeps telling me to deposit $3, which
> > is WRONG.
>
> That only works for tablets, but it should work on your tablet unless
> you're using an iPad which, set up by default, will suck that 200MB in no
> time flat.

complete nonsense.

> Using Android shouldn't be a problem because the defaults are more
> realistic, nor for an iPad with the default sync feature set to not sync
> anything but basic needs.

nonsense again.

[nospam]

In article <bkag6cpbe7d5rq4jq...@4ax.com>, micky

<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >Google Voice is free.
>
> Did I hear that that comes with its own phone number? Or that it
> interacts with the cell phone's phone number? something like that.

google voice gives you a phone number which forwards to one or more
existing phone numbers.

[Ant]

Ah, so it requires an existing phone number.
--
Quote of the Week: "I got this aunt... Carpenter ant." --Girl and Crow
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 1 Jan 2017 00:54:57 +0100, Yanis Bernard

I think I'm going to faint.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 1 Jan 2017 00:54:54 +0100, Yanis Bernard

<YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>
>> I woudl say that no one makes collect calls anymore, but I should tell
>> about the time I was driving back to Baltimore for an organization
>> dinner that night, and when I realized I wouldn't make it in time, I
>> stopped at a pay phone in W. Virginia -- This was 10 years ago but I'm
>> sure at some phones things are the same -- and lucky me, I asked how
>> much the call would cost before I made it. $27 for 3 minutes. !!! I
>> skipped that and later the manager of a tiny museum let me use her
>> phone. Didn't even want any money.
>
>I make collect calls from Europe to my carrier when I'm traveling.
>
>They accept the charges without question, as long as you call the right
>number in the USA for their international group.

What kind of a carrier is this? What kind of an international group?


And FTR, in case anyone caes, I don't mind losing $3 (in my previous
post), even though I mentioned it, for completeness. But I got my
money's worth from them, when they were cheaper than TPC (the Phone
Company).

[The Real Bev]

Or whatever number the SIM provides. I have a separate T-Mobile 'free
data' number, a Freedompop number, a couple of google voice numbers (for
hangouts) and my real t-mobile prepaid number.


--
Cheers, Bev
"Yahoo has released its own search engine. For more info,
type 'yahoo search engine' into Google." -D.Miller

[VanguardLH]

Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <bkag6cpbe7d5rq4jq...@4ax.com>, micky
>> <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>> >Google Voice is free.
>>>
>>> Did I hear that that comes with its own phone number? Or that it
>>> interacts with the cell phone's phone number? something like that.
>
>> google voice gives you a phone number which forwards to one or more
>> existing phone numbers.
>
> Ah, so it requires an existing phone number.

Only if you want to use Google Voice as a PBX. You can have it forward
*calls* to it to one or several phone numbers with each having its own
schedule for when it will ring and which message to use depending on who
called. That's how I started with Google Voice: had it forward incoming
calls to my Google Voice number to my home VOIP, cell phones (had 3 at
the time), and work phone numbers. Or you can just use the Google Voice
phone number all by itself by using it for wi-fi calls using the
Hangouts Dialer app.

With the Google Hangouts Dialer app (a companion to the Google Hangouts
app), you can make wi-fi calls out through your Google Voice phone
number. You can also use the Hangouts Dialer app to pickup incoming
calls via wi-fi made to your Google Voice phone number.

My cellular provider has no signal strength at my home. I cannot make
outbound phone calls using the cellular service. But I can use the
Hangouts Dialer app to use wi-fi to make outbound calls through my
Google Voice phone number. I also get inbound calls to my Google Voice
number that come via wi-fi to my smartphone to the Hangout Dialer app.

My Google Voice account forwards incoming calls to my home VOIP phone
number (Comcast Voice) and to my smartphone's phone number (Tracfone).
(1) When there is no wi-fi connect (disabled or no hotspot):
(a) And there is no cell signal (too weak):
- Only my home VOIP phone rings.
(b) But there is a decent cell signal (I'm outside):
- My home VOIP phone rings.
- And my cell phone rings using the Phone app (which senses a
cellular call).
(2) When there is no cell signal:
(a) And there is no wi-fi connect:
- Only my home VOIP phone rings (same scenario as 1a).
(b) But there is a wi-fi connect:
- My home VOIP phone rings.
- And my cell phone rings using the Hangouts Dialer app (which
senses a wi-fi call).
(3) When there is both a cell signal and a wi-fi connect:
- My home VOIP phone rings.
- And my cell phone rings using the Phone app (for the cellular copy
of the incoming call).
- And my cell phone rings using the Hangouts Dialer app (for the
wi-fi copy of the incoming call).

It is a bit a nuisance for scenarion 3 that I have 2 apps ringing my
cell phone. The wi-fi connect is actually faster (by 2-3 rings) than
the cellular connect. So the Hangouts Dialer app tells me there is an
incoming call to my Google Voice number and then the Phone app appears
(and obliterates the Hangout Dialer app's screen) telling me Google
Voice forwarded the incoming call via cellular service. Often I would
prefer to pick up the incoming call using wi-fi but the Phone app is
rude and makes it impossible for me to get back to the Hangout Dialer
app to accept that version of the incoming call.

I could (and do) have my Google Voice account forward inbound calls to
its *phone number* to my home phone (VOIP from my ISP) and to my cell
phone. However, forwarding to my cell phone doesn't work when I'm at
home because I have no cell signal. So the only way Google Voice could
be ringing my cell phone at home is by using wi-fi connect with the
Hangouts Dialer app. It's pretty obvious when an incoming call to my
Google Voice phone number is using wi-fi to my cell phone: only the
Hangouts Dialer app shows an incoming phone call. If I have cell phone
service (enough signal strength) but no wi-fi connect (hotspots aren't
everywhere) then the Phone app on my phone shows an incoming call. The
call came in via cellular voice.

So you could use Google Voice to forward incoming calls to its phone
number to one, or more, of your other phone numbers. That's how I
started with Google Voice, like a PBX of one phone number to call many
phone numbers and which could change without my Google Voice number ever
changing. Then I found out about the Hangouts Dialer app that works
with my Google Voice account. First I installed the Google Voice app to
get my phone to prompt which dialer to use for outbound calls and
whether or not to make all outbound calls look to the callee like they
came from my Google Voice phone number or whether the caller saw me
calling from my cell phone number. Then I installed the Hangout Dialer
app to give me wi-fi calling (in and out). I also let the Hangout
Dialer steal some of the functions away from the Google Voice app to
give me better SMS/texting features.

So, with a Google Voice account and the Hangouts Dialer app (which works
in tandem with the pre-installed Hangouts apps) - and for my own reasons
for first adding in the Google Voice app - you could not have any
cellular service on your smartphone but still make and get calls via
wi-fi provided you actually have a wi-fi hotspot to which you can
connect. Wi-fi hotspots are not everywhere and don't have anywhere the
same range of country-wide coverage as does cellular service. I can use
the wi-fi settings in my smartphone to connect to some, keep them
remembered, and switch automatically to those when within range. I
don't use paid wi-fi hotspots, only free ones (but some may be
registered in that you have to login to use them - like many stores or
restaurants have one but you have to get the login to use it).

I use the Avast's Wi-Fi Finder, Wi-Fi Finder, and WifiMapper to let me
know where are the free wi-fi hotspots. The first two have an option to
automatically switch to a free non-registered wi-fi hotspot rather than
you happening to notice the smartphone has no wi-fi connection and doing
it manually.

Note that I also use Comcast's Voice2Go wi-fi calling (in and out)
service. Their Connect app lets me do wi-fi calling and their WiFi app
finds the "xfinitywifi" hotspots. I don't need to use xfinitywifi
hotspots with their Connect app for wi-fi calls. Any wi-fi connect will
work (as long as it is fast enough to support voice traffic). I just
add the Xfinity Wifi app to give a 4th wi-fi hotspot finder.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> What kind of a carrier is this?
> What kind of an international group?

I can't imagine *every* USA carrier not having a free (collect) call from
international to the USA for the 611 support feature while you're
traveling.

AT&T is +1-916-843-4685
https://www.wireless.att.com/learn/international/roaming/faq.jsp

AT&T also has +1.314.925.6925
https://www.att.com/esupport/article.html#!/wireless/KM1009432

T-Mobile is +1-505-998-3793
https://support.t-mobile.com/community/contact-us/

Verizon is more complex, with a different toll-free number per country:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/dam/support/pdf/6715-4545-global-support-toll-free-numbers.pdf

Verizon also has a complex procedure involving 0-908-559-4899
https://scache.vzw.com/dam/businessportal/content/international/Global_Phone/global_support_guide.pdf

I'll write up a separate thread with these numbers as it should be
something that we keep for tribal knowledge for all US carriers.

[Frank Slootweg]

micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:29:48 +0100, Yanis
> Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:
>
> >But I have a SIM card and a regular calling plan, which I don't know if
> >Sideline uses or not (probably does).
>
> What one of us could do, but I'm not willing to, is take the SIM card
> out of the phone and see what still works.
>
> I'm pretty sure Whatsapp would. I got it becuase there is only one
> person I call in Europe and it's probably better to call her cell phone
> and she uses whatsapp too, in fact she told me about it.

Yes, WhatsApp works without a SIM. WhatsApp needs to *know* the mobile
phone number of the other party, but it does not *use* it to call, i.e.
no need for a SIM. It only uses the number as the 'address'/'name'/'account'/
<whatever> of the other party.

> Skype ...

Yes, Skype doesn't need a SIM either and it doesn't need a phone
number for Skype-to-Skype calls. For example, I use Skype on my SIM-less
(Android) tablet.

[...]

[Frank Slootweg]

Yanis Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:
[...]

> I'm not the one to describe the different types of VOIP, but WhatsApp is
> the primitive kind (as is Skype, Telegram, etc.) where it will work just
> fine on any computer.

If "any computer" also includes non-Android/non-iOS devices - i.e. for
example a Windows computer - then what you write is not true for
WhatsApp, because WhatsApp does not run on such computers.

Yes, there is a thing called 'WhatsApp Web', which runs in a
webbrowser, but that is only for the output to the screen and input from
the keyboard. The actual sending and receiving is still done on a
(Android/iOS) phone/tablet. I.e. if you want to use a computer, you do
not use a computer *instead of* a phone/tablet, but *in addition to* a
phone/tablet. And yes, that is totally stupid, but it's the way it is.

> This primitive type of VOIP (it has a name but I don't know what that name
> is) doesn't call "real" phone numbers anyway, so the problem set is vastly
> simpler if you're just going computer to computer.
>
> > Skype does charge to call a real phone number but it's under 3 cents a
> > minute within the US and Canada, etc, not that much more to foreign
> > coutries (except cell phones which are often/usually? more).
>
> Yes. This is the other type of VOIP that is not just computer to computer.
> For money, Skype can call a real phone line (I think that's SKypeOut?).
> For money, Skype can receive a real phone call (I think that's SkypeIn?).
>
> But for free, GoogleVoice/Hangouts can do that and do SMS to/from real
> phone lines in the USA (for calls) for free.
>
> So what advantage does Skype have over GoogleVoice/Hangouts for calling or
> receiving to/from a real phone?
>
> Nothing.

Perhaps not for that purpose alone, but Skype can also make
Skype-to-Skype video calls. AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.

[...]

[Yanis Bernard]

Frank Slootweg said:

> Yes, Skype doesn't need a SIM either and it doesn't need a phone
> number for Skype-to-Skype calls. For example, I use Skype on my SIM-less
> (Android) tablet.

Two questions which if yes, may help you a lot.

1. Do you have a sim card slot on your Android tablet?
2. Are you in the USA?

If both are yes, then for $10 or $15 you can get a SIM card from T-Mobile
which gives you 200MB/month free for life cellular data on the tablet.

I have used that plan with HO/GV successfully to use the tablet as a
speakerphone while traveling, so I know it works beautifully to bilaterally
connect with US "real" phone numbers for free.

PS: I see the term POTS which I know covers traditional land lines, but
what is the word for a real 10-digit phone number which can be:
a. POTS (aka land line)
b. VOIP (aka Oooma, Vonage, MagickJack, Sideline, etc.)
c. Mobile (aka cellular)

Does the term POTS cover all three types of 10-digit phone numbers?

[Yanis Bernard]

Frank Slootweg said:

> If "any computer" also includes non-Android/non-iOS devices - i.e. for
> example a Windows computer - then what you write is not true for
> WhatsApp, because WhatsApp does not run on such computers.

Thank you for clarifying. I did mean all computers, so, if WhatsApp doesn't
run on "any computer" then it's even more primitive than the rest.

I think Skype runs on "any computer" (if we define any computer as any
common consumer operating system, such as MacOS, iOS, Android, Windows, &
Linux).

> Perhaps not for that purpose alone, but Skype can also make
> Skype-to-Skype video calls. AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
> calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.

I think you hit upon the huge drawback of almost all of the VOIP solutions,
which is that they need the same software on both ends.

That's why I prefer the free VOIP solutions that can bilaterally call
"real" (aka POTS) phone lines and vice versa.

I think someone said those use the SIM card cellular service though, even
when on WiFi, so, the OP may or may not be able to use those.

Freedompop, as I think Bev mentioned (or someone else?) should be one of
the cheapest US cards possible for non tablets (T-Mobile SIMS are the
cheapest of all US SIM card services but only for tablets).

[Yanis Bernard]

Frank Slootweg said:

> If "any computer" also includes non-Android/non-iOS devices - i.e. for
> example a Windows computer - then what you write is not true for
> WhatsApp, because WhatsApp does not run on such computers.

Thank you for clarifying. I did mean all computers, so, if WhatsApp doesn't
run on "any computer" then it's even more primitive than the rest.

I think Skype runs on "any computer" (if we define any computer as any
common consumer operating system, such as MacOS, iOS, Android, Windows, &
Linux).

> Perhaps not for that purpose alone, but Skype can also make
> Skype-to-Skype video calls. AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
> calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.

[Chris Green]

Yanis Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:
> > Perhaps not for that purpose alone, but Skype can also make
> > Skype-to-Skype video calls. AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
> > calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.
>
> I think you hit upon the huge drawback of almost all of the VOIP solutions,
> which is that they need the same software on both ends.
>

Almost all of the *proprietary* solutions need "the same software on
both ends". 'Proper' VOIP applications work to the internet VOIP
standards and interwork without problems.

--
Chris Green
·

[The Real Bev]

On 01/01/2017 09:51 AM, Yanis Bernard wrote:
> Frank Slootweg said:
>
>> If "any computer" also includes non-Android/non-iOS devices - i.e. for
>> example a Windows computer - then what you write is not true for
>> WhatsApp, because WhatsApp does not run on such computers.
>
> Thank you for clarifying. I did mean all computers, so, if WhatsApp doesn't
> run on "any computer" then it's even more primitive than the rest.
>
> I think Skype runs on "any computer" (if we define any computer as any
> common consumer operating system, such as MacOS, iOS, Android, Windows, &
> Linux).
>
>> Perhaps not for that purpose alone, but Skype can also make
>> Skype-to-Skype video calls. AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
>> calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.
>
> I think you hit upon the huge drawback of almost all of the VOIP solutions,
> which is that they need the same software on both ends.

Google hangouts/dialer/voice and Freedompop both call normal phone
numbers. I would assume that making wifi calls with the T-Mobile wifi
SIM would work too, but we haven't been able to get it working yet.

> That's why I prefer the free VOIP solutions that can bilaterally call
> "real" (aka POTS) phone lines and vice versa.
>
> I think someone said those use the SIM card cellular service though, even
> when on WiFi, so, the OP may or may not be able to use those.
>
> Freedompop, as I think Bev mentioned (or someone else?) should be one of
> the cheapest US cards possible for non tablets (T-Mobile SIMS are the
> cheapest of all US SIM card services but only for tablets).

Both are $5. The Freedompop month of unlimited callting/text/data
starts the day you place the order; the SIM ships from Indiana (or
Illinois or one of those godforsaken places) via Fedex-to-USPS and took
10 days to make it to Pasadena. When I called to cancel the paid
service to avoid auto-renewal it immediately went back to the limited
monthly service and had only a few MB of data left until the next
turnover date in 2 weeks. There is no free lunch :-(


--
Cheers, Bev
"Everyone ought to stop and smell crayons once in a while."
-- DA

[Frank Slootweg]

Please give examples of such "'Proper' VOIP applications", because
AFAIK, there is no such animal.

Note that I mean "'Proper' VOIP applications" in the context of what
is being discussed in *this* thread.

I.e. the "'Proper' VOIP applications" should not just be able to call
fixed or mobile *telephone* numbers (because that is a piece of cake),
but should also be able to do *non-SMS* IM (Instant Messaging).

In the old days (2000 or so?) there were some IM interoperabilty
standards, but - for all intents and purposes - they are dead and gone.

So we are stuck with proprietary IM protocols/implementations, which
are sometimes even locked to a specific OS or/and vendor.

So specifically: Give an example of app A on OS X which can do
*non-SMS* IM with app B on OS Y (where X or Y is Android).

[Frank Slootweg]

Yanis Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg said:
>
> > Yes, Skype doesn't need a SIM either and it doesn't need a phone
> > number for Skype-to-Skype calls. For example, I use Skype on my SIM-less
> > (Android) tablet.
>
> Two questions which if yes, may help you a lot.

Well, *I* don't have any kind of problem which needs solving, I just
gave some answers/information. :-)

Having said that ...

> 1. Do you have a sim card slot on your Android tablet?

No. That's what I meant with 'SIM-less', but indeed one can have a
slot for a SIM card without having a SIM card in that slot, so my
"SIM-less" was a little bit too terse! :-)

> 2. Are you in the USA?

No, The Netherlands.

> If both are yes, then for $10 or $15 you can get a SIM card from T-Mobile
> which gives you 200MB/month free for life cellular data on the tablet.
>
> I have used that plan with HO/GV successfully to use the tablet as a
> speakerphone while traveling, so I know it works beautifully to bilaterally
> connect with US "real" phone numbers for free.

Yeah, we also used the tablet (with Skype) as a speaker-phone (during
our travels in Australia), so the both of us could talk to our loved
ones at home.

We also found that our smart-phone (with Skype) works best as a normal
(non-speaker) phone, i.e. with the phone held to one's head.

I actually found both behaviours an advantage, because it's the most
logical use-model.

A data 'plan' is not a problem for us (for Skype voice use). In Europe
we can use our Dutch provider without extra cost and outside Europe
(i.e. also in Australia) we use a local SIM/provider.

> PS: I see the term POTS which I know covers traditional land lines, but
> what is the word for a real 10-digit phone number which can be:
> a. POTS (aka land line)
> b. VOIP (aka Oooma, Vonage, MagickJack, Sideline, etc.)
> c. Mobile (aka cellular)
>
> Does the term POTS cover all three types of 10-digit phone numbers?

The term POTS indeed covers a., but only a.. (see for example the
Wikipedia page).

I normally use 'telephone number', 'telephone call', etc. for a+b+c.

For example my 'fixed' line (i.e. 'a.') is VOIP-based (i.e. 'b.'). But
who gives is toss knowing it's VOIP, when I call or when they call me?
It's just a telephone call/number.

'c.' is of course a different category, for many reasons.

[Chris Green]

Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:
> > Yanis Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:
> > > > Perhaps not for that purpose alone, but Skype can also make
> > > > Skype-to-Skype video calls. AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
> > > > calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.
> > >
> > > I think you hit upon the huge drawback of almost all of the VOIP solutions,
> > > which is that they need the same software on both ends.
> > >
> > Almost all of the *proprietary* solutions need "the same software on
> > both ends". 'Proper' VOIP applications work to the internet VOIP
> > standards and interwork without problems.
>
> Please give examples of such "'Proper' VOIP applications", because
> AFAIK, there is no such animal.
>

Zoiper and the SIP Discount mobile app.

--
Chris Green
·

[Frank Slootweg]

Please give some pointers (URLs) to these and answer the rest of my
post (which you silently snipped).

The 'SIP' part doesn't look promising and implies that you don't
understand what is being asked for.

[Ant]

Hmmm, I tried to apply for Google Voice but it wanted a phone number. :/
--
Happy New Year! <|:)

[VanguardLH]

Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> Hmmm, I tried to apply for Google Voice but it wanted a phone number. :/

I'm sure the son has parents.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 1 Jan 2017 12:12:06 +0100, Yanis Bernard

<YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>micky said:
>
>> What kind of a carrier is this?
>> What kind of an international group?
>
>I can't imagine *every* USA carrier not having a free (collect) call from
>international to the USA for the 611 support feature while you're
>traveling.

Oh. I just didn't understand who you were calling. Especially since it
sounded like more than once. Thanks, I will save the numbers below,
but I don't think I ever need to call them.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:58:06 -0800, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/31/2016 02:29 PM, Yanis Bernard wrote:
>> (PeteCresswell) said:
>>
>>> Does the mother have an android phone or tablet?
>>
>> As TheRealBev said, if it's a SIM-enabled tablet, then T-Mobile will give
>> you for about $10 or $15 a SIM card that gives you 200MB/month of data for
>> life for free.
>>
>> Add GV+Hangouts to that tablet, and the tablet becomes a "real"
>> speakerphone, able to send/receive calls to/from the USA for free.
>>
>> This I have done so I know it works well.
>>
>> The phone number of the tablet isn't what people call.
>> They call the GV phone number that Google gives you when you set up Google
>> VOice.
>
>Or whatever number the SIM provides. I have a separate T-Mobile 'free
>data' number, a Freedompop number, a couple of google voice numbers (for
>hangouts) and my real t-mobile prepaid number.

If I had all that, my head would spin off its axis.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 1 Jan 2017 18:51:10 +0100, Yanis Bernard

<YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>
>That's why I prefer the free VOIP solutions that can bilaterally call
>"real" (aka POTS) phone lines and vice versa.
>
>I think someone said those use the SIM card cellular service though, even
>when on WiFi, so, the OP may or may not be able to use those.

Just to nitpick, I think what someone said is that he thought they MIGHT
need the SIM card, but not that they would use the cellular service.
The two seem very much alike to me, so it's not surprising you said what
you did, but since they don't use the cellular service**, I conclude
that one doesn't need the SIM card to be in place.

**Because every day I use cellular, I get a message 10 seconds after the
first phone call saying I spent $2, and I didn't get one.

I did think it was possible for something to need the SIM card even
though it didn't use it much. Sort of like the way the phone company
wants your Social Security Number.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 1 Jan 2017 18:49:58 +0100, Yanis Bernard

<YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>Frank Slootweg said:
>
>> Yes, Skype doesn't need a SIM either and it doesn't need a phone
>> number for Skype-to-Skype calls. For example, I use Skype on my SIM-less
>> (Android) tablet.
>
>Two questions which if yes, may help you a lot.
>
>1. Do you have a sim card slot on your Android tablet?
>2. Are you in the USA?
>
>If both are yes, then for $10 or $15 you can get a SIM card from T-Mobile
>which gives you 200MB/month free for life cellular data on the tablet.

Are there locked tablets like there are locked phones?

This page says it's $20 but $4 with the promocode SIMDEAL.
https://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-phone/T-Mobile-Prepaid-3-in-1-SIM-Starter-Kit

Also says
"Works with unlocked, GSM phones. Unlocked, GSM-capable phones that
support Band II (1900 MHz) or IV (1700/2100 MHz) are compatible with
T-Mobile’s network. CDMA phones are not compatible with the T-Mobile
network.

We'll send your ready-to-use SIM card to you in the mail. Keep your
existing phone number or select a new one. Service required for
activation. T-Mobile’s prepaid plans feature no annual contracts,
domestic overages or credit checks.

Works with all T-Mobile phones."

I have, on the old phone, 2G bands GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900

It only gets 2.5 stars out of 5, on only 2 ratings, One guy gives it 4
(evem though he calls it perfect) and says he can't understand what the
other guy is complaining about.

But I don't understand what it would do for me, on my old phone. 200MB
is practically nothing, right? And like anyone, I already get free
data with wifi, so this would just be for emergencies I guess, but I
don't know what a data emergency would be. Maybe I'm groggly because
it's 3AM.

>I have used that plan with HO/GV successfully to use the tablet as a
>speakerphone while traveling, so I know it works beautifully to bilaterally
>connect with US "real" phone numbers for free.

I don't have a tablet and it will take me hours of obsessing to decide
how big it should be and how expensive, so I'm probably not going to get
one.

>PS: I see the term POTS which I know covers traditional land lines, but
>what is the word for a real 10-digit phone number which can be:
>a. POTS (aka land line)
>b. VOIP (aka Oooma, Vonage, MagickJack, Sideline, etc.)
>c. Mobile (aka cellular)
>
>Does the term POTS cover all three types of 10-digit phone numbers?

No. Only the first. That's what "plain" and "old" mean, b and c are
not old. I guess "plain" is an intensifier.

I don't know what the word would be. "A numbered line"? Nah, sounds
too much like a numbered Swiss bank account.

[The Real Bev]

We have computers to take care of all that now...

--
Cheers, Bev
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
is not thus handicapped."
-- Elbert Hubbard, American author

[The Real Bev]

Trying to find the next CHEAP gas station in the middle of the night at
80mph on I-10 somewhere west of El Paso. Thank you, Gas Buddy!

All our traveling life we have tried to game the need for gasoline. We
used to note the best price coming into town and then buy at that price
leaving town, but sometimes we'd get screwed and have to return. This
isn't as important now that we get 35 mpg and a fill-up is 13 gallons
max, but old habits (100 gallons total, 8 mpg at best in the
monsterhome) die hard.

The Garmin has lists of various useful things, but not current prices!
Moreover, it's frequently not up to date with locations. Really annoying
to search frantically for the Costco that's now something else and being
told that Costco moved to the shopping center across the street and up
the block. Or worse. Accordingly, being able to go to the Costco website
(which damn well OUGHT to list current locations) is useful.

>>I have used that plan with HO/GV successfully to use the tablet as a
>>speakerphone while traveling, so I know it works beautifully to bilaterally
>>connect with US "real" phone numbers for free.
>
> I don't have a tablet and it will take me hours of obsessing to decide
> how big it should be and how expensive, so I'm probably not going to get
> one.
>
>>PS: I see the term POTS which I know covers traditional land lines, but
>>what is the word for a real 10-digit phone number which can be:
>>a. POTS (aka land line)
>>b. VOIP (aka Oooma, Vonage, MagickJack, Sideline, etc.)
>>c. Mobile (aka cellular)
>>
>>Does the term POTS cover all three types of 10-digit phone numbers?
>
> No. Only the first. That's what "plain" and "old" mean, b and c are
> not old. I guess "plain" is an intensifier.
>
> I don't know what the word would be. "A numbered line"? Nah, sounds
> too much like a numbered Swiss bank account.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 2 Jan 2017 10:47:38 -0800, The Real Bev

Okay, you've all convinced me. And since they are sending a nano-Sim
with two larger holders, it will definitely (I think) fit n the second
slot in my phone. So for $4, I should get it, right!!?

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 10:35:45 -0800, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On 01/01/2017 11:35 PM, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:58:06 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/31/2016 02:29 PM, Yanis Bernard wrote:

>>>Or whatever number the SIM provides. I have a separate T-Mobile 'free
>>>data' number, a Freedompop number, a couple of google voice numbers (for
>>>hangouts) and my real t-mobile prepaid number.
>>
>> If I had all that, my head would spin off its axis.
>
>We have computers to take care of all that now...

What? Your computer takes care of spinning your head off its axis?
Mine doesn't do that. <vbg>

[The Real Bev]

No reason not to that I can think of. If the phone uses the second SIM
as a 'standby' I think they only work one-at-a-time. If you make a call
with one, you can't use the other for data while you're calling. Check
this out, though -- I could be wrong (unlikely though that might be).

I wish my phone had a second SIM slot. The BLU does, but is hopelessly
inadequate otherwise. We only put a few apps on it, so it worked OK.
We bought a $100 dual-SIM tablet from China via aliexpress, but so far
it's unable to recognize ANY SIM, even though they work in other phones.
The seller is trying to help, but the language barrier is a real
problem. We've had the CC do a chargeback (it costs something like $60
to return the thing, which is ridiculous -- we'll send it back if he
gives us a prepaid shipping label) so it's kind of up in the air.

This has soured me on ordering anything from China that costs more than
I'm willing to throw away if the deal goes belly-up.


--
Cheers, Bev
Ride faster, I hear banjo music!

[The Real Bev]

Remote control. Ball bearings. It just WORKS!

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 2 Jan 2017 12:02:56 -0800, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>>Trying to find the next CHEAP gas station in the middle of the night at
>>>80mph on I-10 somewhere west of El Paso. Thank you, Gas Buddy!
>>>
>>>All our traveling life we have tried to game the need for gasoline. We
>>>used to note the best price coming into town and then buy at that price
>>>leaving town, but sometimes we'd get screwed and have to return. This
>>>isn't as important now that we get 35 mpg and a fill-up is 13 gallons
>>>max, but old habits (100 gallons total, 8 mpg at best in the
>>>monsterhome) die hard.
>>>
>>>The Garmin has lists of various useful things, but not current prices!
>>>Moreover, it's frequently not up to date with locations. Really annoying
>>>to search frantically for the Costco that's now something else and being
>>>told that Costco moved to the shopping center across the street and up
>>>the block. Or worse. Accordingly, being able to go to the Costco website
>>>(which damn well OUGHT to list current locations) is useful.
>>
>> Okay, you've all convinced me. And since they are sending a nano-Sim
>> with two larger holders, it will definitely (I think) fit n the second
>> slot in my phone. So for $4, I should get it, right!!?
>
>No reason not to that I can think of. If the phone uses the second SIM
>as a 'standby' I think they only work one-at-a-time. If you make a call
>with one, you can't use the other for data while you're calling. Check

That'll be the day, when I'm doing both of those things at the same
time. But I appreciate the warning.

>this out, though -- I could be wrong (unlikely though that might be).

I'm never wrong. I'm just posting to the wrong newsgroup.

>I wish my phone had a second SIM slot. The BLU does, but is hopelessly
>inadequate otherwise. We only put a few apps on it, so it worked OK.
>We bought a $100 dual-SIM tablet from China via aliexpress, but so far
>it's unable to recognize ANY SIM, even though they work in other phones.

Not a good sign.

> The seller is trying to help, but the language barrier is a real
>problem. We've had the CC do a chargeback (it costs something like $60
>to return the thing, which is ridiculous -- we'll send it back if he
>gives us a prepaid shipping label) so it's kind of up in the air.

>This has soured me on ordering anything from China that costs more than
>I'm willing to throw away if the deal goes belly-up.

I can see that.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 2 Jan 2017 12:05:28 -0800, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 01/02/2017 11:28 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 10:35:45 -0800, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 01/01/2017 11:35 PM, micky wrote:
>>>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:58:06 -0800, The Real Bev
>>>> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 12/31/2016 02:29 PM, Yanis Bernard wrote:
>>
>>>>>Or whatever number the SIM provides. I have a separate T-Mobile 'free
>>>>>data' number, a Freedompop number, a couple of google voice numbers (for
>>>>>hangouts) and my real t-mobile prepaid number.
>>>>
>>>> If I had all that, my head would spin off its axis.
>>>
>>>We have computers to take care of all that now...
>>
>> What? Your computer takes care of spinning your head off its axis?
>> Mine doesn't do that. <vbg>

I think Stuxnet controls how fast it spins.

>
>Remote control. Ball bearings. It just WORKS!

Yes!

[Yanis Bernard]

The Real Bev said:

> This has soured me on ordering anything from China that costs more than
> I'm willing to throw away if the deal goes belly-up.

Hom Tom is good stuff for Android phones.
About $85 for a phone that beats the pants off of many other phones.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> Okay, you've all convinced me. And since they are sending a nano-Sim
> with two larger holders, it will definitely (I think) fit n the second
> slot in my phone. So for $4, I should get it, right!!?

It's a no brainer if you're getting the SIM card for four bucks and then
you get 200MB/month for life.

You're getting this for a tablet, right?

Note that T-Mobile is different, I think, from the other two main carriers
in that they NEVER charge you when you go over your limit. It just slows
down but they never charge you for more data.

You can always buy more high-speed data if you want.
I guess that's what they are hoping you do, but they never nag you.

Just be advised that every once in a while they turn off the data (for
whatever reason) and I have to call them to have them turn it back on.

I guess it's because I have the data turned off most of the time, so maybe
they figure I got rid of the tablet or whatever.

[Yanis Bernard]

The Real Bev said:

> All our traveling life we have tried to game the need for gasoline.

One trick I use for cheap gasoline is to look for Costco near the highway.
You have to have time for the long lines though but in general, it's the
cheapest prices for Tier 1 gasoline.

[Yanis Bernard]

micky said:

> But I don't understand what it would do for me, on my old phone. 200MB
> is practically nothing, right? And like anyone, I already get free
> data with wifi, so this would just be for emergencies I guess, but I
> don't know what a data emergency would be. Maybe I'm groggly because
> it's 3AM.

I want to clarify that it's my understanding that the free 200MB/month is
only for tablets. And, I "think" all tablets are unlocked from the factory
but you might want to check that to be sure.

200MB is plenty and it's nothing.
Depends on what you do with it.

If you "sync" stuff and watch videos, then it's nothing.
It's gone in a flash.

But if you keep cellular data turned off, and you only use it when you need
it, the 200MB/month lasts the whole month easily. I use it for traffic
checks in the car when on the road, and for making phone calls when in the
car on the road. I also use it for exit services (gas buddy type stuff) and
for hotel planning.

As you noted, most of the time you have WiFi so you don't need the cellular
data. You only need the cellular data when you're traveling.

It should be noted that for mapping, you just use offline maps which work
fine with zero data.

[The Real Bev]

On 01/02/2017 05:48 PM, Yanis Bernard wrote:
> micky said:
>
>> But I don't understand what it would do for me, on my old phone.
>> 200MB is practically nothing, right? And like anyone, I already
>> get free data with wifi, so this would just be for emergencies I
>> guess, but I don't know what a data emergency would be. Maybe I'm
>> groggly because it's 3AM.
>
> I want to clarify that it's my understanding that the free
> 200MB/month is only for tablets. And, I "think" all tablets are
> unlocked from the factory but you might want to check that to be
> sure.

Also -- GSM only.

> 200MB is plenty and it's nothing. Depends on what you do with it.
>
> If you "sync" stuff and watch videos, then it's nothing. It's gone in
> a flash.
>
> But if you keep cellular data turned off, and you only use it when
> you need it, the 200MB/month lasts the whole month easily. I use it
> for traffic checks in the car when on the road, and for making phone
> calls when in the car on the road. I also use it for exit services
> (gas buddy type stuff) and for hotel planning.
>
> As you noted, most of the time you have WiFi so you don't need the
> cellular data. You only need the cellular data when you're
> traveling.
>
> It should be noted that for mapping, you just use offline maps which
> work fine with zero data.

I haven't decided which burns battery faster, Osmand or CoPilot, but
since you can charge your phone while driving I suppose that doesn't
matter.

--
Cheers, Bev
When cryptography is outlawed, only outlaws will
qwertzuio asdfghjk pyxcvbnml -- M. O'Dorney

[The Real Bev]

On 01/02/2017 05:48 PM, Yanis Bernard wrote:

And you get that nice 3% (or is it 4% now?) rebate.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2016-12-31 20:20, TomR wrote:

>
> I'll check out Google Hangouts and Google Voice and see how it works
> etc. I am in the USA (East Coast), and this would only be for
> within-USA calls and texts.
>
> I may also check out Skype and WhatApp and Telegram, but I am not sure
> if I will do that -- mostly because I think they may require that the
> person being called also have the same app installed on their end for
> the call to be free.

Almost all applications require that the other end has the same app. The
exception are those apps that follow some public standard. You have to
choose the one app that most of your contacts use, so the choice is not
really yours.

Some apps, such as WhatsApp require the phone to have a phone number
already, for registration at least. Ie, an active SIM card in this case.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2017-01-01 15:14, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:29:48 +0100, Yanis
>> Bernard <YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:


>> What one of us could do, but I'm not willing to, is take the SIM card
>> out of the phone and see what still works.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure Whatsapp would. I got it becuase there is only one
>> person I call in Europe and it's probably better to call her cell phone
>> and she uses whatsapp too, in fact she told me about it.
>
> Yes, WhatsApp works without a SIM. WhatsApp needs to *know* the mobile
> phone number of the other party, but it does not *use* it to call, i.e.
> no need for a SIM. It only uses the number as the 'address'/'name'/'account'/
> <whatever> of the other party.

No, it doesn't work without a SIM. I removed the SIM of my old phone,
and WA worked for some minutes, then stopped for ever.

It needs the SIM phone number for registration once, and later it checks
that the same phone number is still available. It will use the WiFi to
route traffic if it is available.

It uses the phone number of both parties for addressing.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[M.L.]

>Hmmm, I tried to apply for Google Voice but it wanted a phone number. :/

callcentric.com can provide you with a free New York state inbound
phone number. Requires receiving at least one inbound call every 3
months.

You can forward your GV number to the callcentric.com phone number.

Inbound callers can use your GV number to reach your phone, but any
outbound calls will display the caller ID of your N.Y. state number
unless you use the Google Voice app to force your GV number as your
outbound caller ID.

The FCC requires callcentric.com to charge a small monthly 911 fee.
However, activation of that fee was not enforced when I used their
free number many years ago.

[M.L.]

>With the Google Hangouts Dialer app (a companion to the Google Hangouts
>app), you can make wi-fi calls out through your Google Voice phone
>number. You can also use the Hangouts Dialer app to pickup incoming
>calls via wi-fi made to your Google Voice phone number.

Google Duo video chat app can also be used for inbound/outbound GV
Wifi calls.

[M.L.]

>> AFAIK, GoogleVoice/Hangouts doesn't do video
>> calls and even if it does, it won't do video calls to/from Skype user.

Google Hangouts and Google Duo support video calls to those using the
same app. Hangouts can make outbound voice calls to people who don't
use it, and I think Duo can too.

[M.L.]

>Get a free Google Voice account. That gives you an actual phone number
>to which you can receive calls and also make them.
>
>Install the Google Voice app on the smartphone and configure it. If you
>want every callee to see your Google Voice number (instead of the
>Voice2Go number mentioned below) then configure the Google Voice app to
>handle all outbound calls.
>
>Then install the Google Hangouts Dialer app.

The Google Voice app is used to cloak the caller ID of your cellular
number. No need to use the Google Voice app in conjunction with
Hangouts since Hangouts will always display your GV number as caller
ID.

[M.L.]

>In the meantime, I have a 32 GB MicroSD card in my phone, so I downloaded an
>app that is supposed to move some apps from the internal phone storage area
>to the SD card. The app is really easy to use, but it looks like only a few
>of the apps on my phone are able to be moved from internal storage to the SD
>card. The rest cannot be moved.

You'll need to root your phone to bypass the developer's restriction
for moving apps to SD.

[M.L.]

>So I tried to set up and to verify my phone number it said to "enter the
>code", which appears to have 4 numbers. What code? I'm stymied.

That's probably the verification code sent via voice or text to the
forwarding number you gave when setting up your Google Voice number.

[Piet]

Ken Blake wrote:
>The Real Bev wrote:

>> micky wrote:
>>> If I had all that, my head would spin off its axis.
>>
>> We have computers to take care of all that now...
>
> What? Your computer takes care of spinning your head off its axis?
> Mine doesn't do that. <vbg>

It does. It's just that you haven't noticed yet.

-p

[VanguardLH]

https://duo.google.com/
Almost zilch for describing the app there. Yeah, it does video calls -
using what protocol? Don't even see Google Voice mentioned there.
Looks like another VOIP-only (no phone number) Skype equivalent which
means you only get to make pseudo-calls to other users of the same app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.tachyon&hl=en
Hopefully, as you say, it will use wi-fi for Internet connectivity.
"*Data charges may apply. Check your carrier for details." You don't
want to suck up your cellular data minutes, and the son wanting wi-fi
calls doesn't have any cellular service. From a review at the Play
store, "When you start out you are inviting everyone on your contact
list to download the app and hoping they will get all of their family
and friends to get the app." That sure makes it sound like it is only
an app-to-app video calling service. I wasn't trying to find a
VOIP-only Skype equivalent as that sucks to make/receive phone calls
from the vast majority of callees/callers, like your doctor, dentist,
car shop, bank, store, or anyone else that either doesn't know about the
app, won't install the app, or is just using a regular phone rather than
a smartphone loaded with tons of apps they rarely use.

Half the requested functionality was phone calling. The other half was
texting. Does Google Duo do texting?

The OP expressed no concern regarding doing video calls, just phone
calls. You sure Google Duo isn't another proprietary video caller so
only the son's friends also using it can video call to/from him?

Adding video calling means requiring a much better wi-fi connection than
needed just for voice only. At home, the son might have an okay wi-fi
connect to his parent's wi-fi cable modem. When travelling, wi-fi
hotspots are often not nearly as wide a pipe (for bandwidth) plus that
is available is being shared. Some of the comments on the app at the
Play store mentioned the video cuts out (halts, freezes) during a call
but the audio continues okay.

If it does it, I was not aware that Google Hangouts even does video
calling. Never used it that way. Even if Hangouts has video calling,
I'm not going to require those I call or those that call me to have the
Hangouts app.

https://www.cnet.com/products/google-duo/
"Whereas Hangouts can be used on desktops, supports messaging and group
chats, and has multiway video for collaboration (and its interface
reflects these extra features), Duo does one thing and one thing only:
video calls on your phone or tablet." The author apparently missed the
Hangouts Dialer companion app where he said, "Unlike Hangouts, it
reaches people through their phone numbers, not their Gmail." If the
Hangouts Dialer app did not exist, I wouldn't be bothering with Hangouts
but then, unlike the son, I do have cellular service for phone calls and
texting. Only after the Dialer app showed up did I then start looking
at what the Hangouts app can do. Instead of getting locked into one app
at both ends, I can call or get calls from anyone with a phone number
regardless of how they access their phone service. I does look like
Google will be replacing Hangouts with their Duo app, so I'll put Duo on
my to-do list of apps to look at.

For wi-fi phone calls, I don't want to require extra bandwidth at wi-fi
hotspots not controlled by me and not for my sole use to handle the
video load. Does Duo do voice-only calls? To me, video is just glitz -
but if I do get into free video calling then this app is yet another
choice. Too bad there is so damn little info about how it works on
Google's pages. Is Google Duo using an open protocol that other apps
can also use so there is no requirement that each endpoint has to use
the same video calling app? I'm not going around to my family and
friends telling them they must use the Google Duo app, especially since
many just have dumb phones (home phones, flip/bar cellphones) or they
are using someone else's non-smartphone phone.

https://blog.google/products/duo/meet-google-duo-simple-1-to-1-video/
So maybe that's where you got the link up for the app to use a Google
Voice service where you get an actual phone number. However, it looks
like both endpoints in the call are locked into using the same app but
maybe that is just for the video side of a call. Maybe it will do
voice-only (audio-only) phone calls, too. Can't tell from Google's
pages with no information.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 03 Jan 2017 04:17:07 -0600, M.L.

But I haven't set up GVoice. I'm only trying to set up Hangouts, which
I thought would work without GV. I thought it normally was used
without GV, (but that GV might for some purposes require Hangouts, if I
followed the conversation here correctly.)

At any rate, it never mentioned setting up GV too.

[nospam]

In article <o4f0r9$bc5$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> But I don't understand what it would do for me, on my old phone.
> >> 200MB is practically nothing, right? And like anyone, I already
> >> get free data with wifi, so this would just be for emergencies I
> >> guess, but I don't know what a data emergency would be. Maybe I'm
> >> groggly because it's 3AM.
> >
> > I want to clarify that it's my understanding that the free
> > 200MB/month is only for tablets. And, I "think" all tablets are
> > unlocked from the factory but you might want to check that to be
> > sure.
>
> Also -- GSM only.

nope. hspa/lte are fully supported.

[M.L.]

>>>With the Google Hangouts Dialer app (a companion to the Google Hangouts
>>>app), you can make wi-fi calls out through your Google Voice phone
>>>number. You can also use the Hangouts Dialer app to pickup incoming
>>>calls via wi-fi made to your Google Voice phone number.
>>
>> Google Duo video chat app can also be used for inbound/outbound GV
>> Wifi calls.

>Looks like another VOIP-only (no phone number) Skype equivalent which
>means you only get to make pseudo-calls to other users of the same app.

Duo supports video calls to/from GV and non-GV numbers. Both parties
are required to use Duo but cellular charges will apply only to non-GV
users.

>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.tachyon&hl=en
>Hopefully, as you say, it will use wi-fi for Internet connectivity.
>"*Data charges may apply. Check your carrier for details." You don't
>want to suck up your cellular data minutes, and the son wanting wi-fi
>calls doesn't have any cellular service.

Duo and Hangouts work with any available Internet service.

> From a review at the Play
>store, "When you start out you are inviting everyone on your contact
>list to download the app and hoping they will get all of their family
>and friends to get the app." That sure makes it sound like it is only
>an app-to-app video calling service.

Yes, it is.

> I wasn't trying to find a
>VOIP-only Skype equivalent as that sucks to make/receive phone calls
>from the vast majority of callees/callers, like your doctor, dentist,
>car shop, bank, store, or anyone else that either doesn't know about the
>app, won't install the app, or is just using a regular phone rather than
>a smartphone loaded with tons of apps they rarely use.

<snip>
Duo does not yet support voice-only calling. That feature is planned
though.

Duo can make video calls to a non-GV# that uses the Duo app.
Duo can accept video calls from a non-GV# that uses the Duo app.

Duo calls made to a non-Duo user will prompt to complete the call via
either Hangouts, Google Voice app or Messaging app.

Hangouts GV account can make voice calls to non-GV#.
Hangouts GV account can accept voice calls from non-GV#.

Hangouts GV account can make video calls to another Hangouts GV.
account

[M.L.]

>>>So I tried to set up and to verify my phone number it said to "enter the
>>>code", which appears to have 4 numbers. What code? I'm stymied.
>>
>>That's probably the verification code sent via voice or text to the
>>forwarding number you gave when setting up your Google Voice number.
>
>But I haven't set up GVoice. I'm only trying to set up Hangouts, which
>I thought would work without GV. I thought it normally was used
>without GV, (but that GV might for some purposes require Hangouts, if I
>followed the conversation here correctly.)

Hangouts needs a GVoice account.

[VanguardLH]

You are correct regarding wifi-only calls (through Hangouts). Any call
made using a wi-fi dialer will not involve the Google Voice app. When I
use the Hangouts Dialer app to make a wi-fi call, the callee sees my
Google Voice phone number. When I use Comcast's Connect app to make a
wi-fi call, the callee sees my Comcast Voice2Go phone number. I'm using
those apps to directly connect to an Internet-based service. The Google
Voice app will not be involved in those calls so, yes, the Google Voice
app is not required when making wi-fi calls plus it will not mask my
caller ID for those wi-fi calls.

Unlike the son of the OP's friend, I do have cellular service and that
is where Google Voice is helpful. Google does its Caller ID magic (to
make the callee see my Google Voice number) by having its Google Voice
app connect to a Google POP (Point of Presence) at a telco. The Google
Voice app does not directly call the callee. Instead it calls the
Google POP which then calls the callee. That is how Google masks my
real phone number with the one in my Google Voice account so the callee
sees my Google Voice phone number in the CID data instead of my real
phone number on my end of the call. You can see this when using the
Google Voice app. I will call, say, Mark at xxx-xxx-xxxx who is in
Maine but the Google Voice app shows that I am calling mmm-mmm-mmmm to
some Google POP over in Alabama. Unless my telco or cellular provider
has an option to alter my CID data (not likely unless I go hunting for
such a provider), the CID data has to be modified at the POP for the
callee to see what I want them to see. There are such CID altering
services available, at a fee, that you can find online. Since I'm using
a free Google Voice service with free apps, I'm not wasting money for an
online service to utilize their POP to alter my CID data. I'm not
trying to hide or lie, just have callees see my 40-year old phone number
that has been transferred to each phone company and cellular provider
that I've had and then transfered it to Google Voice so it could call
all my phones regardless of what are their current numbers. So I use
the Google Voice because I do have cellular service. The son of the
OP's friend won't need that app since, as you mentioned, using a wi-fi
dialer (any of them) will exclude using the Google Voice app.

Another reason I use the Google Voice app is that it returns a prompt
that Google took away as of Android 4.3 (although there is some info
pointing at 4.2.2). Each dialer can register itself and get presented
in an intervening prompt dialog asking which dialer you want to use. As
long as you never click Always (to always use the same dialer), you will
get the prompt asking for the dialer of several that you want to use for
each call. I want that prompt because I have 3 wi-fi dialers: Hangouts
Dialer (with it reporting my Google Voice phone number), Comcast Connect
(with it using my Voice2Go phone number), and Skype (which actually has
a phone number for 60 minutes/month as part of the Office 365
subscription). I also do have cellular service, so Phone appears in the
prompt as an option when making an outbound call. For each call, I get
a choice on how to make that call: one of 3 choices for wi-fi calling or
1 choice for cellular. If I happen to have wi-fi available (and only if
it is free) then I'll probably use wi-fi to make an outbound call.
However, coverage for wi-fi is a hell of lot less than for cellular
coverage so wi-fi won't always be available wherever I happen to be to
make or receive calls. As of Android 4.3, I won't get a prompt asking
which dialer to use. That sucks. Google took it away. Peculiarly,
adding the Google Voice app to intervene with outbound calls gives me
back that prompt. Until I make a choice, Google Voice won't know which
dialer I will be using.

For more info on the multi-dialer prompt ("Complete action using"
dialog), see:

Issue 58097: Calling from a contact always uses system dialer,
doesn't offer to choose 3rd-party app like Skype
https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=58097

While the bug was closed as Obsolete, it was never fixed. Google
decided to make a behavioral change and they aren't going back nor are
they saying why they won't return the prior functionality. This is
hardly the first time that Google has taken away a function in the next
version of Android. Another was for call blocking on texts. I have
apps, like Hiya (was Whitepages Caller ID) that can block text sources
but not after Android version 4.4.4 Kitkat. Android took away the
function needed to do that. You get other such apps, like TrueCaller,
claiming they can do both blocking on calls and texts but they neglect
to warn you that blocking on text source became undoable as of Android
4.4.4. For a short blurb exposing Google's choice to remove the
function, see:

https://hiya.com/faq/android
"Why can't I block messages?"

Google's Voice app un-did what Google did in Android 4.3 (where I first
noticed it but looks like 4.2.2 was when the screwed up change first
appeared) regarding removal of the multi-dialer prompt. Some
suggestions were to install the ExDialer app or an Xposed module; i.e.,
add something that was taken away by Google in their Android OS. I
didn't want another contact manager. I had a Google Voice account and
had not yet used Hangouts (because its Dialer companion app wasn't
available back then) so it made sense to use the Google Voice app with a
Google Voice account which coincidentally re-added the missing
multi-dialer prompt. Writing apps that depend on a critical Android
function is coding for a moving target.

One user (rene) in the above bug thread said clearing defaults gave him
back the multi-dialer prompt. However, that means he selected Always at
some time to pick a default. I have never clicked Always so none of the
multiple dialers is selected as the default dialer. Rene never bothered
to give details on his smartphone and its Android version. It looks
like Google decided later to correct the missing multi-dialer prompt but
there are several versions of Android that exhibit the bug.

Of course, if the son of the OP's friend is only going to do wi-fi
calling (which means the son must be in range of a wi-fi hotspot), never
has or uses more than one dialer, and never gets cellular service then
the son doesn't need a prompt asking which dialer to use and won't need
CID masking for cellular calls the son can never make.

[VanguardLH]

"M.L." <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>>>>With the Google Hangouts Dialer app (a companion to the Google Hangouts
>>>>app), you can make wi-fi calls out through your Google Voice phone
>>>>number. You can also use the Hangouts Dialer app to pickup incoming
>>>>calls via wi-fi made to your Google Voice phone number.
>>>
>>> Google Duo video chat app can also be used for inbound/outbound GV
>>> Wifi calls.
>
>>Looks like another VOIP-only (no phone number) Skype equivalent which
>>means you only get to make pseudo-calls to other users of the same app.
>
> Duo supports video calls to/from GV and non-GV numbers. Both parties
> are required to use Duo but cellular charges will apply only to non-GV
> users.

That's what I feared. Getting everyone you know to switch to yet
another proprietary communications app is not what I'll be doing.
That's why I haven't gotten into video calling. What I might use is not
what I demand someone else to use. Too bad Google didn't go with an
open or merged communications standard or, at least, publish theirs so
other video/chat apps can use it.

This is similar to many online file storage services: you can share a
file but only if each participant enlists into the same service. If a
buddy and me agree to share files, like for a coding project, using the
same file service then great. That's a unique scenario. I'm not going
to generally demand that anyone else with whom I communicate must use
the same service or the same app as me. Just because a bunch of my
friends enlisted at Facebook did not make me go there. Yuck.

Probably why I never got into video "calling" using Hangouts is because
I won't demand the other party to also use the Hangouts app. I need and
want communication to support disparate setups. So, for me, video
calling is not yet a viable option.

> Duo does not yet support voice-only calling. That feature is planned
> though.

From some reading, it looks like Duo is to replace Hangouts. So they
will have to incorporate voice-only calling. I'll keep monitoring to
see when that happens and then trial Duo to see if it is a viable
replacement.

> Duo calls made to a non-Duo user will prompt to complete the call via
> either Hangouts, Google Voice app or Messaging app.

So there's no reason for me to yet replace the Hangouts app (and its
Dialer companion app). Seems Duo is progressing as did Hangouts. When
Hangouts first showed up, there wasn't much to it but it grew by
incorporating other services. Just doesn't seem like Google knows where
it is headed with telephony. The problem with their experiments (which
they do not always announce as experiments) is that their lifespan is,
on average, only about 3 years. That's why I have a backup plan to
Google Voice as a PBX by using my own ISP's PBX feature which has some
of the same features as Google Voice but not nearly as configurable.

[M.L.]

>>>Looks like another VOIP-only (no phone number) Skype equivalent which
>>>means you only get to make pseudo-calls to other users of the same app.

No pseudo-calls since Duo can be used with any telephone number.

>> Duo supports video calls to/from GV and non-GV numbers. Both parties
>> are required to use Duo but cellular charges will apply only to non-GV
>> users.
>
>That's what I feared. Getting everyone you know to switch to yet
>another proprietary communications app is not what I'll be doing.
>That's why I haven't gotten into video calling. What I might use is not
>what I demand someone else to use. Too bad Google didn't go with an
>open or merged communications standard or, at least, publish theirs so
>other video/chat apps can use it.

I don't think there's any way to do two-way video calling without
using the same client.

>> Duo does not yet support voice-only calling. That feature is planned
>> though.
>
>From some reading, it looks like Duo is to replace Hangouts. So they
>will have to incorporate voice-only calling. I'll keep monitoring to
>see when that happens and then trial Duo to see if it is a viable
>replacement.

From what I read, Hangouts is to be used for business clients.

>> Duo calls made to a non-Duo user will prompt to complete the call via
>> either Hangouts, Google Voice app or Messaging app.
>
>So there's no reason for me to yet replace the Hangouts app (and its
>Dialer companion app).

At this time Duo is strictly for video calling. But it's very good at
what it does.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 3 Jan 2017 02:48:44 +0100, Yanis Bernard

<YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:

>micky said:
>
>> Okay, you've all convinced me. And since they are sending a nano-Sim
>> with two larger holders, it will definitely (I think) fit n the second
>> slot in my phone. So for $4, I should get it, right!!?
>
>It's a no brainer if you're getting the SIM card for four bucks and then
>you get 200MB/month for life.
>
>You're getting this for a tablet, right?

No, for a phone. I don't have a tablet. I'm generally a cheapskate
and this year I'm trying not to be, but I really have trouble figuring
out what I would use a tablet for. (on this trip. There's no rush to
plan what I do when I'm home.) I'm not going to write email when I'm
not at home. I'm not going to browse wikiipedia, or anything else but
look at maps and the paper maps plus the maps on the 5.5" phone plus the
compass is all I need. (There is no chance at all I won't get where
I'm going. In between I wander around, don't need or want any maps, and
I need the cellphone or compass just to get back to a main road.)

I have a laptop that I'll keep in the room where I'm staying and use at
the end of the day.

I wouldn't even consider getting a tablet if it were not for this
11-week trip, whose benefits I want to maximize. (I could buy a
tablet while on the trip, but aren't there many many models with quite
different features sometimes and I think it would be harder to shop.)

>Note that T-Mobile is different, I think, from the other two main carriers
>in that they NEVER charge you when you go over your limit. It just slows
>down but they never charge you for more data.

That's for real customers, who pay a decent amount, right. They're not
going to do that after a one time payment of $4, are they?

>
>You can always buy more high-speed data if you want.
>I guess that's what they are hoping you do, but they never nag you.
>
>Just be advised that every once in a while they turn off the data (for
>whatever reason) and I have to call them to have them turn it back on.

LOL They turned off my water today to replace a hydrant a block
away.

[TomR]

"Yanis Bernard" wrote in message news:o49bh3$dog$4...@news.mixmin.net...
>
>Only two apps do that to my knowledge (I'm sure there are more), at least
>for free in the USA.
>1. GoogleVoice/Hangouts
>2. Sideline
>
>But, both of those I use on both WiFi-calling and Cellular-calling using a
>SIM card with active cellular service (with or without data). So I don't
>know what happens if you don't have a SIM card or a cellular plan with
>those two apps.

Just an update....,

So far, I am trying to see if I can get Google Voice and Google Hangouts set
up to work for me using one or two of my own phones. If I can do that and
learn how it all works, I can set something up for the kid on his phone.

My first test is by using an old LG StraightTalk phone that I have that does
not have cellular service set up -- and by looking inside the phone, it does
not have a SIM card.

So, I downloaded Google Voice and Google Hangouts on that phone. Then, when
trying to set up a Google Voice account, it asked for a phone number that I
want the new Google Voice number to forward messages to. For now, I picked
a landline phone number that is at my desk. Then GV asks if I want a new
free GV number or I want to use my own number. I said I want a new free GV
number. Then it asks me to pick a number from a list of available numbers.
But, every time that I pick a number, it flashes that it is adding the
number and then immediately says GV could not process the request. I don't
know what that means or what the problem is. So, as of now, that didn't
work.

Later, I will try something else. I will still try using the same old
phone, but I will give my other cell phone's valid cell number as the number
that GV should forward to, and then see if I can get a new GV number that
hopefully I can use on the old phone with no cell service.

I'll post back later when I know more about that.

SIDELINE: Meanwhile, I went to the Sideline 2nd Phone Number app by Pinger.
But, when I read the description, it said that I can use that app to add a
free second phone number to a cell phone that already has a working cell
number. And, it says it uses the working cell number's cellular service
access to make the new Sideline 2nd phone number work. It says that it is a
way to have 2 cell phone numbers without having to carry 2 cell phones
around.

I may actually want to do that on my regular cell phone to see how that
works. If it works well, it could be used, for example, if I want to run a
Craigslist ad and I don't want to give out my regular cell phone number.
That may also work for a couple of people where I work who use their own
cell phones for work-related phone calls. Maybe they would be able to set
up a separate "work" cell phone number on their own cell phone and not have
to give out their personal cell phone number to clients etc.

I'll try that sometime also and post back here how that works.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help.

I'll keep you posted.


--
I found this free and safe Windows Live Mail Newsreader QuoteFix program:
WLMail QuoteFix -> http://www.dusko-lolic.from.hr/wlmquote/

[TomR]

"VanguardLH" wrote in message news:ecqroh...@mid.individual.net...
>
>TomR <To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm> wrote:
>
>> My friend has a young son with an Android phone, but with no paid phone
>> service on the phone. My friend also has Cable Internet with a WiFi
>> modem
>> at home.
>You should also check who is the ISP at his home. If Comcast, they have
>their own wi-fi app to make calls (to and from phone numbers, not just
>VOIP users). The problem is that a phone number has to be assigned to
>his member account at Comcast. Since he is not paying for Comcast, get
>his parent(s) to create a Comcast member account for him (if he does not
>yet have one) which lets him have his own e-mail account there. Once he
>has a member account, have the owner go under voice settings in their
>account to create a new Voice2Go phone number. This is free. An owner
>can create up to 6 Voice2Go numbers. You have to wait after issuing the
>request for it to change from Pend status to Assigned status. Then the
>owner can assign one, or more, of the available non-pending Voice2Go
>numbers to the owner account or to any of the member accounts. If that
>account is ever deleted, the Voice2Go number assigned to it is lost,
>too.
>
>After getting the Comcast/Xfinity account configured to add to it a
>Voice2Go number, install Comcast's Connect app where you can do texting.
>When making an outbound phone call, a prompt will appear asking which
>dialer you want to use to actually make the call. Select the Connect
>app to make a wi-fi call. Incoming calls to the Voice2Go number will
>ring the app. Voice2Go includes voicemail, too.
>
>If you are never going to add cellular voice service to the phone, when
>the prompt appears asking which dialer to use then select the Connect
>app and tap on the Always button. That will eliminate seeing the prompt
>each time; however, you will have to clear the app's data (and have to
>reenter your account login) if you ever want the prompt to reappear.
>
>When I make a call, I get an intervening prompt asking if I want to use
>Phone (built-in cellular phone service), Connect (Comcast's wi-fi), or
>Google Voice (wi-fi calling). I do NOT click on Always because instead
>I always want to see the prompt of which dialer and access method to
>use. Even if I have cellular phone service and get a good signal
>wherever I happen to be, I might want to save on my cellular call
>minutes by using wi-fi if available. I don't bother with overpriced
>unlimited calling plans. I use Tracfone whose unused minutes rollover
>(as long as I keep an account open with them). I don't make that many
>calls so I always have lots of unused minutes to rollover into the next
>subscription. So the parents could get a Tracfone account for their kid
>and not pay much but the kid could save those limited minutes for more
>important calls and use wi-fi calling to make/receive calls - but that
>only works if he is in range of a wi-fi hotspot. He has a hotspot at
>home but when away from home there are lots of free wi-fi hotspots.
>They are not as pervasive as cellular coverage and why having some
>cellular call time would still help, like when the kid has an emergency
>and needs to call home or anytime he is not in wi-fi range.
>
>With wi-fi calling (not VOIPing), I use little of my cellular call
>minutes, so I get a lot of rollover with Tracfone. In fact, at my home,
>I have to use wi-fi calling. Signal strength at home for cellular voice
>is way too weak. I don't get incoming calls and outbound calls are
>unreliable (might not be able to start a call or it cuts up or
>disconnects during the call). So wi-fi calling using Google Voice and
>Hangouts Dialer is how I do cell phone calling via wi-fi from home. I'd
>have to install a tall antenna and amplifer costing several hundred
>dollars to maybe get a better cellular signal at home. Don't need to
>waste the money and instead use free Google Voice service with the
>Google Voice and Hangouts Dialer apps on the smartphone and, as a
>backup, also have a Voice2Go number assigned to my Comcast account and
>use their Connect app on the smartphone. I have 2 means of wi-fi
>calling (in and out) which connects to phone numbers.
>
>VOIP limits me to other users with VOIP apps. I did have the Skype app
>installed along with a Microsoft (Outlook.com) account. The number of
>folks that also had Skype that I wanted to talk with was a very small
>community (less than the fingers on one hand) so it got little use.
>Because it got used so little meant I was clumsy at using it. I did buy
>3 years of Office 365 subscription which gives me something like 60
>minutes of free calling (to phone numbers, not just VOIP) per month but
>I never ended up using it. The other above mentioned wi-fi calling
>setups were easier to use. Without the included phone minutes, all I'd
>get with Skype is VOIP and that doesn't interest me nor do I know many
>folks (that I want to talk with) that have Skype. I used to leave Skype
>installed as yet another backup wi-fi phone calling setup; however, I
>grew weary of it always crashing soon after powering up the smartphone
>(I'd get a message that com.<something>.skype had stopped which meant it
>was useless), so I uninstalled it. I really didn't need a 3rd wi-fi
>calling option, especially one with limited minutes per month, when I
>had 2 free and unlimited wi-fi calling options (Google Voice, Comcast).

Thanks. I'll have to check that out. The kid's father does have
Comcast/Xfinity Internet service and WiFi. But, the Comcast account does
not have a phone number associated with it. So, I am not sure if Comcast
will allow them to add a "Voice2Go" phone number if they don't already have
a primary Comcast phone number. But, sometime, I may try that anyway and
see what happens.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 03 Jan 2017 13:23:55 -0600, M.L.

It would have been nice if it had told me that. ;-)

Do you know if Duo needs anything else? When I have time, I'll install
that.

[M.L.]

>>>>>So I tried to set up and to verify my phone number it said to "enter the
>>>>>code", which appears to have 4 numbers. What code? I'm stymied.
>>>>
>>>>That's probably the verification code sent via voice or text to the
>>>>forwarding number you gave when setting up your Google Voice number.
>>>
>>>But I haven't set up GVoice. I'm only trying to set up Hangouts, which
>>>I thought would work without GV. I thought it normally was used
>>>without GV, (but that GV might for some purposes require Hangouts, if I
>>>followed the conversation here correctly.)
>>
>>Hangouts needs a GVoice account.
>
>It would have been nice if it had told me that. ;-)
>
>Do you know if Duo needs anything else? When I have time, I'll install
>that.

Duo just needs a GV# or other valid phone number that can reach a
recipient.

Both parties must have an Internet connection.

On Android, calls to a non-Duo phone will force a popup to select
between Hangouts app, cellular phone/GV app, or Messenger app to
complete the call.

Participant(s) without a GV# will incur cellular call charges.

[VanguardLH]

TomR <To...@TomRhjghgl.ncm> wrote:

> The kid's father does have
> Comcast/Xfinity Internet service and WiFi. But, the Comcast account does
> not have a phone number associated with it.

From what I understand, you do not need to subscribe to Comcast's Voice
(VOIP) service. You just need an account with them. Voice2Go phone
numbers are independent of any phone number, if any, already on the
Comcast account.

First you need to submit a request to get a Voice2Go phone number. Then
you wait. Supposedly they send an e-mail notifying you the status of
the request has changed from Pending to Assigned (or maybe it's
Assignable since it still has been assigned to a particular admin/owner
or member account yet). You can check on status of the Voice2Go
request. Once it is Assign(ed|able) then you can assign it to an
account within your Comcast account. The admin or owner account has to
issue the Voice2Go request and the owner account has to assign the
Voice2Go number to the owner or member account. Once you assign the
Voice2Go number to an account, you then have to install their Connect
app and go through the setup there.

No actual phone gets called for inbound calls to the Voice2Go app. It's
a pseudo phone number. Incoming calls from any source will connect to
the member account having that Voice2Go number. Only by having their
Connect app installed and connecting to your account will Comcast ring
the Connect app via Internet (and to your smartphone via wi-fi). If you
don't install their Connect app, the Voice2Go number has no purpose
(unless you want to configure it as a voicemail-only service and have
e-mail alerts tell you there are new voicemail messages).

You can use any wi-fi hotspot with Comcast's Connect app; however, it
will go over the Internet to connect to your Comcast account. Voice2Go
phone numbers can be assigned to member accounts. Presumably the kid's
parents created a member (secondary) account for their kid to use to
keep his e-mail separate from theirs. If the kid has not been assigned
a member account, the parents will have to do so. Then after their
request to get a Voice2Go number changes from Pending to Assigned is
when they can assign the new Voice2Go number to their kid's member
account.

https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/phone/voice-2go-faqs/
https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/phone/create-voice2go-numbers/
https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/phone/activate-voice-2go/

I did not check that the web navigation mentioned in their help pages
matches their new and changed "My Account" web pages. If you can't
figure it out, use their Chat line to get them to guide you through the
process or do it for you.

Just remember that wi-fi hotspots have no where the same geographical
coverage as does cellular service. If the kid isn't near a wi-fi
hotspot then he cannot make wi-fi based calls (and also not receive
them). Not all wi-fi hotspots are free. There are apps to tell you
where are the wi-fi hotspots and which are free and which are paid (or
private). The parent might want to reconsider not paying for their
kid's cellular service. What if the kid needs to call home but there
are no free wi-fi hotspots around? They could use Tracfone to limit
their costs. If the kid consumed the quota then the kid is shit out of
luck until the parents buy some more quota.

If the parents add a cellular service to the kid's phone, make sure the
kid knows not to eat up his data minutes with Internet-facing apps.
Something like Google Maps, especially when used for verbalized
directions, can quickly eat up minutes, and anything video related will
suck up the limited data minutes. Some apps can be configured to NOT
allow cellular data access; i.e., they can be forced into wifi-only
mode. In the Android's Settings -> Application Manager -> Data Usage,
change the setting to show both Mobile and Wi-Fi usage. When Mobile is
selected for view, scroll down to each app and tap on it to show its
configurable properties. One of them is "Restrict background data". If
enabled, that app cannot use cellular data access to the Internet. It
can only use a wi-fi connection to get to the Internet.

As an example, I had enabled the "Restrict backgkround data" on the
weather widget. I was only looking at the weather info when I was at
home or at work both of which had wi-fi hotspots defined so the
smartphone automatically connect to them. I didn't see the need to
waste cellular data minutes on weather when wi-fi was available. Then I
went on a 300-mile trip to attend a wedding. I was wondering why I
wasn't seeing any weather info in the widget. It was a November wedding
so knowing the weather was important since it was to be an outdoor
wedding. We got lucky that the day of the wedding got sunny and much
warmer. Eventually I realized that I had disabled cellular data access
to the weather app. I disabled that option and, voila, the weather app
updated - but it had to use cellular data minutes to do that. The
resort was in the boonies and there definitely wasn't any wi-fi hotspots
around (closest was about 12 miles away). So you can restrict apps to
be wi-fi only. That way, the kid having a limited quota of cellular
time paid by his parents wouldn't be wasting the data minutes. Of
course, maybe his parents already pay for cellular service on a cheap
dumb flip/bar phone that they expect the kid to use when away from home.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 31 Dec 2016 18:02:56 -0500, micky
<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>
>
>Skype does charge to call a real phone number but it's under 3 cents a

BTW, I heard a couple interviews on the radio in the last few days, one
on NPR, between the US and some places across the ocean and they ended
by saying the interview was done via Skype.

>minute within the US and Canada, etc, not that much more to foreign
>coutries (except cell phones which are often/usually? more). That's a
>lot for a local call, but when I had no long distance service, and when
>my DSL worked yet my home phone didn't, it enabled me to make a few
>necessary calls. (using the PC)

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 2 Jan 2017 10:47:38 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Trying to find the next CHEAP gas station in the middle of the night at
>80mph on I-10 somewhere west of El Paso. Thank you, Gas Buddy!

I have on occasion, over the last 40 years, had a hard time finding gas,
(mostly because I didn't buy it when it was available), but the point of
this post is to say at the xway exits on the beltway around Baltimore,
it used to be they never had the signs about gas, restaurants, and
hotels that they have between cities. I don't know why not.

In the past 3 or 4 years, they've finally put up those signs, but still,
when you get to the end of the off-ramp, they don't say which direction
to turn, even when it's a half-mile at least to the first gas station,
and it can't be seen from the off-ramp. .

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 02 Jan 2017 03:23:50 -0500, micky
<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 1 Jan 2017 18:49:58 +0100, Yanis Bernard
><YanisBerna...@orange.fr> wrote:
>
>>Frank Slootweg said:
>>
>>> Yes, Skype doesn't need a SIM either and it doesn't need a phone
>>> number for Skype-to-Skype calls. For example, I use Skype on my SIM-less
>>> (Android) tablet.
>>
>>Two questions which if yes, may help you a lot.
>>
>>1. Do you have a sim card slot on your Android tablet?
>>2. Are you in the USA?
>>
>>If both are yes, then for $10 or $15 you can get a SIM card from T-Mobile
>>which gives you 200MB/month free for life cellular data on the tablet.
>
>Are there locked tablets like there are locked phones?
>
>This page says it's $20 but $4 with the promocode SIMDEAL.
>https://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-phone/T-Mobile-Prepaid-3-in-1-SIM-Starter-Kit

IGNORE THIS. Because of the price and because they were *selling* a SIM
card, I thought it referred to the offer above, but readling more slowly
afaict it's just a sim card and has no data or anything.

The same SIM card I thought most providers give you for free. Yet they
have nerve enough to claim to charge $20 and to actually charge $4.

[nospam]

In article <p5lo6cp7cfidnen1l...@4ax.com>, micky

<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >This page says it's $20 but $4 with the promocode SIMDEAL.
>
> >>https://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-phone/T-Mobile-Prepaid-3-in-1-SI
> >M-Starter-Kit
>
> IGNORE THIS. Because of the price and because they were *selling* a SIM
> card, I thought it referred to the offer above, but readling more slowly
> afaict it's just a sim card and has no data or anything.

it does after you activate it.

> The same SIM card I thought most providers give you for free. Yet they
> have nerve enough to claim to charge $20 and to actually charge $4.

sometimes it's on sale and sometimes it isn't.

[nospam]

In article <dblo6cta0d7boak9s...@4ax.com>, micky

<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> In the past 3 or 4 years, they've finally put up those signs, but still,
> when you get to the end of the off-ramp, they don't say which direction
> to turn, even when it's a half-mile at least to the first gas station,
> and it can't be seen from the off-ramp. .

follow the traffic.