FOSS apps

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 19, 2021, 6:19:46 AM11/19/21

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What handful of free open source apps do you use most?

To start it off, I mostly use these half dozen FOSS apps.

(1) Etar FOSS calendar
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ws.xsoh.etar

(2) Dir FOSS file manager
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.veniosg.dir

(3) Vanilla FOSS music manager
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.blinkenlights.android.vanilla

(4) Good Weather FOSS weather app
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.asdtm.goodweather

(5) FreeOTP FOSS password authenticator
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.fedorahosted.freeotp

(6) N+ FOSS calculator
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.duy.calculator.free

Joerg Lorenz

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Nov 19, 2021, 7:46:41 AM11/19/21

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Am 19.11.21 um 12:19 schrieb Andy Burnelli:

Anonymous Troll!
What is the purpose of this ad-posting?

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 19, 2021, 1:28:36 PM11/19/21

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On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:46:40 +0100, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> What is the purpose of this ad-posting?

nospam

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Nov 19, 2021, 1:45:37 PM11/19/21

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In article <sn8qcc$1jsv$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:46:40 +0100, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> > What is the purpose of this ad-posting?
>
> To learn from other android users what FOSS apps they find useful.
> Which FOSS apps do you find most useful?
>
> Here are a few more of some FOSS apps that I use and find useful.
>
> (7) AntennaPod FOSS podcast manager and player

hi arlen

Joerg Lorenz

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Nov 19, 2021, 5:18:22 PM11/19/21

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Am 19.11.21 um 19:45 schrieb nospam:

Could be him. Killfiled him anyway immediately.

From: Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: FOSS apps
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:19:45 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <sn818g$vot$1...@gioia.aioe.org>
Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="32541";
posting-host="MVX5QXyCStXBi429cBQ1vw.user.gioia.aioe.org";
mail-complaints-to="ab...@aioe.org";
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.mobile.android:87278

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Mayayana

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Nov 19, 2021, 5:47:09 PM11/19/21

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"Andy Burnelli" <sp...@nospam.com> wrote

| > What is the purpose of this ad-posting?
|
| To learn from other android users what FOSS apps they find useful.
| Which FOSS apps do you find most useful?
|

I don't use any apps I can avoid. Most of them are spyware.
Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 19, 2021, 9:50:34 PM11/19/21

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On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:47:19 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't use any apps I can avoid.

Your strategy is sound.

> Most of them are spyware.

Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?

> Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
> except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
> not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.

Other than Open Camera, what FOSS app do you use that you like the most?

Mayayana

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Nov 20, 2021, 9:18:48 AM11/20/21

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"Andy Burnelli" <sp...@nospam.com> wrote

|
| Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?
|

No, but I don't assume OSS is necessarily clean. Look at
Firefox. A bloated mess of bad design and spyware settings.
(3rd party cookies enabled by default!) But it's OSS. Oss just
means you can get the code yourself. It doesn't mean it's
good code. Nor does it necessarily mean there are no ad deals.
(Again, Firefox gets paid millions by Google to put theeir
search bar on the toolbar and make it difficult to *not*
search from the address bar.)

| > Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
| > except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
| > not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.
|
| Other than Open Camera, what FOSS app do you use that you like the most?

As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
because no one else did and I don't understand that
hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
phenomenon of apps and what people use.

But for myself they're generally not relevant. I know how
to read maps. I don't want restaurant recommendations.
And even on a desktop I don't use trinkets like clipboard
managers or organizers. I'm waiting for the emperor's new
crypto-currency to crash, along with NFTs, so I don't need
a wallet for that. For notes and lists I use Notepad or a
pencil and paper.

In short, I don't use a cellphone for any of the things you
mention because 1) it's an ergonomic nightmare, 2)
it's functionally a kiosk system, on which it's nearly
impossible to maintain any kind of privacy, 3) and leaving
it turned on regularly causes it to serve as a tracking collar.
Opting out makes little difference:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dgmqz/huq-location-data-opt-out-no-consent

Did you know that Google sells "geo-fencing" data to gov't
agencies? They call Google and ask who was at a given location
during a given timeframe and Google sends them a list, based
on cellphone tracking. Very creepy stuff.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/

You could have walked past the Capitol on Jan 6 and ended up
under investigation by the Federal gov't. What gives Google and
others the right to spy on you like that?

Many apps make money by add and/or selling your data. On
Windows my firewall controls what software can do. If it tries
to call out it gets removed. It's not so easy on cellphones.
So I generally just don't use apps. I make phone calls. :)

In the few cases where I've needed an app I go to APKPure.
(Though I can't think offhand of an app I've needed. My ladyfriend
wanted a flower ID app recently, but I don't think any were OSS.
We were lucky just to find one that didn't tell us a daisy was
an oak tree.)

My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 20, 2021, 2:25:16 PM11/20/21

to

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:18:57 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

>|
>| Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?
>|
>
> No, but I don't assume OSS is necessarily clean.

Yours is a sound strategy not to install anything you don't need.
I was just making the point that FOSS apps aren't necessarily spyware.

At least they're FOSS, which means if they're obvious spyware, we would know
but if they've cleverly hidden the spyware (or if nobody looked at the
source) then I would agree with you that to be wary of FOSS apps is ok.

> Look at
> Firefox. A bloated mess of bad design and spyware settings.

I think you have a good handle on Firefox which just takes too much effort
to keep cleaning up as they keep adding more and more spyware to it.

While you can clean firefox up (ghacks user.js for example), it's work.
Therefore you won't see Firefox (or Chrome) on my system, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, you need at least one web browser.
I use ungoogled Chrome as one of the least bad, which isn't good but it
isn't all that bad either.

But I agree with you that the effort to clean up Firefox is just too great.
Even as ghacks user.js helps a bit to clean up the errant ways of Firefox.
https://www.ghacks.net/2020/01/06/please-mozilla-dont-touch-the-user-js-functionality-in-firefox/

> (3rd party cookies enabled by default!) But it's OSS. Oss just
> means you can get the code yourself. It doesn't mean it's
> good code. Nor does it necessarily mean there are no ad deals.
> (Again, Firefox gets paid millions by Google to put theeir
> search bar on the toolbar and make it difficult to *not*
> search from the address bar.)

I agree that it's hard in Firefox to not search even if you make the address
bar not a search engine but at least on Windows I think I managed to turn it
off (but I don't remember how I did that but can look it up for you).

But you need at least one web browser, don't you?

On Windows SRWare Iron allows you to easily turn the address bar search off.
On Android, my main browser is ungoogled chromium which is just ok.

I don't remember where I got it from but a search finds it here.
https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-android

>|> Of the apps you list I can't imagine having any use for them,
>|> except maybe the camera program. I might have that. I'm
>|> not sure. The rest is nonsense to me.
>|
>| Other than Open Camera, what FOSS app do you use that you like the most?
>
> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
> because no one else did and I don't understand that
> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
> phenomenon of apps and what people use.

Thank you. I saw the hostility and ignored those people who had no intention
to contribute so to respond to them would be to reward their goal.

I was hoping some good FOSS apps would come of it as there are some things
everyone does (like calendaring) which Google makes too easy for them to use
the spyware.

I wanted others to learn from me and I wanted to learn from others.

> But for myself they're generally not relevant. I know how
> to read maps. I don't want restaurant recommendations.
> And even on a desktop I don't use trinkets like clipboard
> managers or organizers. I'm waiting for the emperor's new
> crypto-currency to crash, along with NFTs, so I don't need
> a wallet for that. For notes and lists I use Notepad or a
> pencil and paper.

I'm with you on the KISS concept which I think is sound.
Especially for privacy.

> In short, I don't use a cellphone for any of the things you
> mention because 1) it's an ergonomic nightmare, 2)
> it's functionally a kiosk system, on which it's nearly
> impossible to maintain any kind of privacy, 3) and leaving
> it turned on regularly causes it to serve as a tracking collar.

>
> Did you know that Google sells "geo-fencing" data to gov't
> agencies? They call Google and ask who was at a given location
> during a given timeframe and Google sends them a list, based
> on cellphone tracking. Very creepy stuff.
> https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/

No. I did not know this. Thank you for the heads up.
That link says in 2020 Google received a thousand geofence warrants a month!

I agree with your observation that it's creepy.

This article says you have to be signed in to Google for it to work though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-location-tracking.html

If Google sells it to the government it absolves the government of their
restriction on warrants so it's doubly creepy that the government gets this.

> You could have walked past the Capitol on Jan 6 and ended up
> under investigation by the Federal gov't. What gives Google and
> others the right to spy on you like that?

There was a murder in my town and the police knocked on my door and I had
wondered how they knew I was in the area and thought it was from a license
plate scan since they knew more than I did where I was that day.

Maybe it was from my phone?
Or from an FBI Cessna flying overhead?

> Many apps make money by add and/or selling your data. On
> Windows my firewall controls what software can do. If it tries
> to call out it gets removed. It's not so easy on cellphones.
> So I generally just don't use apps. I make phone calls. :)

I use NetGuard as my firewall which I'm sure you're well aware of.
https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard

> In the few cases where I've needed an app I go to APKPure.
> (Though I can't think offhand of an app I've needed. My ladyfriend
> wanted a flower ID app recently, but I don't think any were OSS.
> We were lucky just to find one that didn't tell us a daisy was
> an oak tree.)

I have a lady friend who loves to identify flowers also.
Searching I wonder if any of these four ad free apps are any good?

PlantNet Plant Identification (4.6 rated)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.plantnet

NatureID Plant Identification (4.2 rated)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=plant.identification.flower.tree.leaf.identifier.identify.cat.dog.breed.nature

INaturalist (4.2 rated)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.inaturalist.android

Blossom Plant Identification (3.9 rated)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.conceptivapps.blossom

I'll test each of them out and give one of them to her.
Was the one you chose in that list above?

> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?

I don't know if there is any repo that we can trust.
I don't trust any of them but I trust FOSS more than I do proprietary.

I generally do NOT use Google Play if I can find the app in a FOSS repo.
Obviously you are aware of F-Droid & GitHub & Sourceforce & Guardian.

But I post Google Play links in this newsgroup because that's what most
people will be using (even if I don't use them myself most of the time).

I do agree with your strategy of only installing what you need.
In addition, there are basic best practices for privacy we all need.

We should aim for apps by Developers who adhere to these privacy standards.
https://source.android.com/security/best-practices/privacy

Ken Blake

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Nov 20, 2021, 3:23:06 PM11/20/21

to

On 11/20/2021 12:25 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:18:57 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
>
>>|
>>| Do you have evidence most FOSS apps are spyware?
>>|
>>
>> No, but I don't assume OSS is necessarily clean.
>
> Yours is a sound strategy not to install anything you don't need.

I strongly disagree with that strategy. Several points:

1. I install many utility programs because they make it easier to do
some of the things I do.

2. I install some programs because they reduce the risk of getting
infected with malware.

3. I install some programs because I think they might be useful, and
then uninstall them if turns out that I don't find them useful.

4. I personally don't play computer games, but many people install games
because they enjoy playing games.

5. I no longer review software, but in the past I've installed several
programs to study them and write a review of them.

6. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
because I expect them to have improvements I would find valuable.

7. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
because I think it's likely that they will fix problems I've been having.

8. I install some programs because although I know little about them,
they've been recommended by people whose computers skills I respect.

9. I install some programs to help friends and relatives with their
problems (an example is Teamviewer)

With a little more thought, I could probably come up with more reasons.
Moreover "need" is a poor word to use for almost all software and
people. Few people really "need" a computer, nor need any of the
programs they have installed. The computer and its programs are there
for some combination of making their life easier and making it more
enjoyablei

Mayayana

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Nov 20, 2021, 4:14:45 PM11/20/21

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"Andy Burnelli" <sp...@nospam.com> wrote

| But you need at least one web browser, don't you?
|
| On Windows SRWare Iron allows you to easily turn the address bar search
off.
| On Android, my main browser is ungoogled chromium which is just ok.

I don't trust anything sourced from Chrome. I once tried
SRWare Iron. It tried to call home when I opened it the first
time, without asking. When I blocked that it tried to call Google!
Maybe that was for some kind of homepage or search bar?
I don't know. But software has no business claling out to anywhere
clandestinely.

I'm using a combination of Firefox, New Moon and Waterfox.
FF keeps getting worse, and it's a pain to fix, as you noted, but
at least it is adjustable and has lots of extensions. On Android
I'm just using Firefox, but rarely ever use it. On Raspberry Pi I'm
using Firefox and Chromium. The latter is only because it supports
widevine.

| You and I may not be the norm as most people have an email app....

Indeed. I specifically don't want my cvellphone to be a way of life.
I think of it as a portable phone booth. It's too easy to start using it
for email, social media, news... then next thing you know you're having
sex and think it's normal to stop in order to read a text and respond
with LOL. Very addictive. I don't even want people to be able to reach
me by text. They can leave a message on my landline answering
machine. I'm not a surgeon or a drug dealer. No one needs to reach
me right now.

| > Did you know that Google sells "geo-fencing" data to gov't
| > agencies? They call Google and ask who was at a given location
| > during a given timeframe and Google sends them a list, based
| > on cellphone tracking. Very creepy stuff.
| > https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/
|
| No. I did not know this. Thank you for the heads up.
| That link says in 2020 Google received a thousand geofence warrants a
month!
|
| I agree with your observation that it's creepy.
|
| This article says you have to be signed in to Google for it to work
though.
|
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-location-tracking.html
|

They seem to be saying that if you're logged in the data will
be associated with your account. But they still seem to track it.
And then they can associate it with your phone, your web
browsing, etc

Google have also been caught lying repeatedly about such things.
Remember when they were caught slurping wifi data with their
streetview van? They denied it until the specific software and the
engineer who wrote it turned up.

I seem to also remember a recent piece about Google tricking
people by providing some privacy settings but then hiding others
that would override the first. Though I'm not certain that wasn't
Apple

Google have also teamed up with credit card companies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/

I figure that if you do any business with them at all you have
to assume they're spying on you. And if you don't do any business
with them, they still might be spying on you. It's what they do.

| If Google sells it to the government it absolves the government of their
| restriction on warrants so it's doubly creepy that the government gets
this.
|

Exactly. Bypassing the 4th amendment on a large scale.

| > Many apps make money by add and/or selling your data. On
| > Windows my firewall controls what software can do. If it tries
| > to call out it gets removed. It's not so easy on cellphones.
| > So I generally just don't use apps. I make phone calls. :)
|
| I use NetGuard as my firewall which I'm sure you're well aware of.
| https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard
|

Thanks. I didn't know about that. Since I don't use the phone
for much I hadn't looked into it.

| > In the few cases where I've needed an app I go to APKPure.
| > (Though I can't think offhand of an app I've needed. My ladyfriend
| > wanted a flower ID app recently, but I don't think any were OSS.
| > We were lucky just to find one that didn't tell us a daisy was
| > an oak tree.)
|
| I have a lady friend who loves to identify flowers also.
| Searching I wonder if any of these four ad free apps are any good?
|
| PlantNet Plant Identification (4.6 rated)
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.plantnet
|
| NatureID Plant Identification (4.2 rated)
|
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=plant.identification.flower.tree.leaf.identifier.identify.cat.dog.breed.nature
|
| INaturalist (4.2 rated)
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.inaturalist.android
|
| Blossom Plant Identification (3.9 rated)
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.conceptivapps.blossom

|
| I'll test each of them out and give one of them to her.
| Was the one you chose in that list above?

She ended up with PictureThis, but I don't think it was
available except through the play store. I'll have to ask her
whether she's happy with it or wants to try something else.

|
| > My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
| > apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
| > play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
|
| I don't know if there is any repo that we can trust.
| I don't trust any of them but I trust FOSS more than I do proprietary.
|
| I generally do NOT use Google Play if I can find the app in a FOSS repo.
| Obviously you are aware of F-Droid & GitHub & Sourceforce & Guardian.
|

You overestimate my expertise. I know Windows. I'm a
beginner with cellphones and Android. I don't want to
spend 3 months learning the OS and I don't want to use
it much without knowing the OS. So I end up with my
increasingly common conclusion: "I'm too old for that shit." :)

I know about GitHub for software, and Sourceforge for code.
I didn't know phone apps were available in such places.

| We should aim for apps by Developers who adhere to these privacy
standards.
| https://source.android.com/security/best-practices/privacy

Again, thanks. I diudn't know about that either.

Mayayana

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Nov 20, 2021, 4:21:35 PM11/20/21

to

"Ken Blake" <K...@invalidinvalid.com> wrote

| I strongly disagree with that strategy. Several points:
|
| 1. I install many utility programs because they make it easier to do
| some of the things I do.
|
| 2. I install some programs because they reduce the risk of getting
| infected with malware.
|
| 3. I install some programs because I think they might be useful, and
| then uninstall them if turns out that I don't find them useful.
|
| 4. I personally don't play computer games, but many people install games
| because they enjoy playing games.
|
| 5. I no longer review software, but in the past I've installed several
| programs to study them and write a review of them.
|
| 6. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
| because I expect them to have improvements I would find valuable.
|
| 7. I install new versions of programs I know and find useful (need?)
| because I think it's likely that they will fix problems I've been having.
|
| 8. I install some programs because although I know little about them,
| they've been recommended by people whose computers skills I respect.
|
| 9. I install some programs to help friends and relatives with their
| problems (an example is Teamviewer)
|
|
| With a little more thought, I could probably come up with more reasons.
| Moreover "need" is a poor word to use for almost all software and
| people.

:) You're sounding like a salesman now. Next thing you'll be
telling me I can't afford not to buy an app that recommends the
best app for recommending the best app.

You could say that few people really need a computer, but
that's not really accurate. Business contracts, email, browsing,
doing business with the IRS or social security, editing photos...
Those are my needs. I also have pleasures: writing software,
doing web design, researching topics of interest, finding
books and videos, etc. I use a computer quite a bit. But I
don't find that I have much use for my cellphone, other than
to make occasional calls, except to relate to people who are
cellphone-addicted, like the occasional person who insists that
I call them instead of using their doorbell. They have trouble
relating to experiences that are not digitally mediated and I
don't want to traumatize them.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 20, 2021, 6:03:33 PM11/20/21

to

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:14:53 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't trust anything sourced from Chrome.

I don't blame you for not trusting anything sourced from Chromium.

Unfortunately, you need a web browser. At least one.
And, most likely it's either sourced from Chromium or Mozilla.

The one plain jane chromium sourced browser I use on Android is
https://9to5google.com/2016/09/30/ungoogled-is-the-chrome-browser-you-love-minus-the-google/

For Android, some of the not-as-bad-I-think not-plain-jane choices might be

Brave
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brave.browser

Aloha Lite
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alohamobile.browser.lite

Epic
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.epic.browser

Opera
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.opera.browser

Tor
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.torproject.torbrowser

> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorvault-location-tracking.html
> They seem to be saying that if you're logged in the data will
> be associated with your account. But they still seem to track it.
> And then they can associate it with your phone, your web
> browsing, etc

Thanks for reading that NYT article which was a backup link inside the
article you supplied originally about geofencing warrants.

The less you log into Google, the better it seems, and the more stuff you
turn off the better, but as you noted, identifiable information persists.

> I seem to also remember a recent piece about Google tricking
> people by providing some privacy settings but then hiding others
> that would override the first. Though I'm not certain that wasn't

> Apple.

Don't know about Apple but Google Maps will ask you for location and turn on
a bunch of switches you definitely don't need and certainly don't want. Best
to always say no when Google Maps does that and instead turn on location
manually yourself (which doesn't turn on those extra "accuracy" switches).

GPS accuracy in almost ever circumstance I've ever been in, is just fine.
(There's no need, as far as I've experienced, for the augmented garbage.)

> Google have also teamed up with credit card companies:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/

Yikes.
That article was a bit hard to read, but scary nonetheless.
Thanks for pointing that out as I had no idea they were doing that.
I knew Google keeps a "receipt" section of your email, which is creepy.

Not ever logging into a Google account while on the phone is a key step.

But that article says Google aggregates information from its many apps so,
again, a philosophy is to stay away from all known Google apps (if you can).

1. Don't log into anything Google (if you can help it)
2. Don't use a Google app (if you can help it)

That article also says you can turn off much of Google's location tracking,
which I think is critical for anyone who uses Google apps like Google Maps.

>| I use NetGuard as my firewall which I'm sure you're well aware of.
>| https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard
>|
>
> Thanks. I didn't know about that. Since I don't use the phone
> for much I hadn't looked into it.

NetGuard is one of the best Android apps ever as it gives you a FOSS system
firewall without rooting and it comes from appears to be a well respected
developer (who might work for the NSA as far as I really know though).
https://netguard.me/

For any app, NetGuard can monitor and control cellular data access and Wi-Fi
data access independently (it's a tap to turn access on or off per app).
https://f-droid.org/packages/eu.faircode.netguard/

NetGuard also does systemic ad blocking (if that's what you want) but you
have to get the non-google-play version because Google doesn't like that.
https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/ADBLOCKING.md

I use it for the firewall, where I turn EVERYTHING off and then, one by one,
when I need an app to have access to Wi-Fi or cellular data, I turn it on.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-6-0-netguard-no-root-firewall.3233012/

> She ended up with PictureThis, but I don't think it was
> available except through the play store. I'll have to ask her
> whether she's happy with it or wants to try something else.

Thanks for pointing that out. Normally I wouldn't test it as it has ads.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cn.danatech.xingseus

But, of course, NetGuard (see above) blocks those ads, but anyway....

> So I end up with my
> increasingly common conclusion: "I'm too old for that shit." :)

That's what I say when someone asks me if I'm on reddit or discord or
facebook or kik or even when they suggest I learn a new text editor! :)

> I know about GitHub for software, and Sourceforge for code.
> I didn't know phone apps were available in such places.

Well, there are a lot of repos and I don't have any insider information as
to which we can trust but that's why I stick with FOSS apps that are
unbundled from Google (google services framework free).

I think you may find it interesting to try the first three apps over here.
https://auroraoss.com/download/

They're as good as NetGuard in my humble opinion, in doing what they do.
With the first two apps in that list, 99% of all your app needs are covered.

Frank Slootweg

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 6:12:40 AM11/21/21

to

Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Andy Burnelli" <sp...@nospam.com> wrote
[...]

> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
> because no one else did and I don't understand that
> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
> phenomenon of apps and what people use.

Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.

[...]

> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?

APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
"non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
geofenced Play Store apps, etc..

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 6:56:06 AM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Andy Burnelli" <sp...@nospam.com> wrote
> [...]
>
>> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
>> because no one else did and I don't understand that
>> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
>> phenomenon of apps and what people use.
>
> Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
> some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.

I was suspicious the first time I read the first post, but seeing he
doesn't deny it, we can confirm it is him :-)

> [...]
>
>> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
>> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
>> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
>
> APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
> Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
> "non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
> APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
> geofenced Play Store apps, etc..

Do you have a link?

I want to install something in a tablet that doesn't have the google
install app.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Frank Slootweg

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Nov 21, 2021, 7:21:01 AM11/21/21

to

Not really *that* hard! :-) Just apkpure.com! <https://apkpure.com>

> I want to install something in a tablet that doesn't have the google
> install app.

You mean that it doesn't have the (Google) 'Play Store' app, but
*does* allow 'sideloading', right?

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 7:56:06 AM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 13.20, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [...]
>
>>>> My sense was that that APKPure provides non-Google-infested
>>>> apps, but I'm really not an expert. I'm curious why you go to the
>>>> play store instead. Have I been misled in trusting APKPure?
>>>
>>> APKPure also carries most apps which are available in the (Google)
>>> Play Store / on the Google Play website. So APKPure provides *both*
>>> "non-Google-infested" apps *and* Play Store apps. I sometimes use the
>>> APKPure website to get older/other versions of Play Store apps, or
>>> geofenced Play Store apps, etc..
>>
>> Do you have a link?
>
> Not really *that* hard! :-) Just apkpure.com! <https://apkpure.com>

Ah, yes. I had opened <https://m.apkpure.com/> instead (see the other
thread I started).

>> I want to install something in a tablet that doesn't have the google
>> install app.
>
> You mean that it doesn't have the (Google) 'Play Store' app, but
> *does* allow 'sideloading', right?

Finally I found it does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
register it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Mayayana

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 8:31:51 AM11/21/21

to

"Frank Slootweg" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

| Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
| some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.
|

Ah. Imagine that. He got me. But he did offer some
good links. Thanks.

Mayayana

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 8:36:50 AM11/21/21

to

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

| Finally I found it does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
| register it.
|

I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?
I don't really understand how all this works. I don't
remember enabling "sideloading". (A term which I really
dislike. It's not "side" loading. It's installing software.
There's no reason to start defining that as aberrant
behavior. Apple is the aberrant behavior.

Allodoxaphobia

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 8:48:21 AM11/21/21

to

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 13:23:03 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> ... The computer and its programs are there

> for some combination of making their life easier
> and making it more enjoyablei

And making it more complicated.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 8:52:27 AM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:36:59 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
> I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
> some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
> authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?

As far as I can tell from personal experience over the years, you never need
the Google Playstore App to install apps on any Android phone.

AFAIK, your only Google Playstore App restriction on most Android phones is
you can't delete the Google Playstore App (unless you're rooted, which most
people aren't).

What I do is delete that Google Playstore App from my homescreen so I'm
never tempted to use it. What's interesting is that even if you never use
the Google Playstore App (mine is disabled), you can still update all your
apps that are also found on the Google repo if that's what you like to do (I
don't, but many people want to auto-update their apps, which is why I
mention that observation.)

> I don't really understand how all this works. I don't
> remember enabling "sideloading". (A term which I really
> dislike. It's not "side" loading. It's installing software.
> There's no reason to start defining that as aberrant
> behavior. Apple is the aberrant behavior.

When people mention "sideloading" they may need to make a disctinction
between obtaining the APK versus installing that APK which they obtained.

While you can _obtain_ an APK from almost any app that allows such things
(whether that's an app repo client, or a web browser, or even your MUA or
sms/mms app), as I recall, it has always been my experience that the first
time you try to _install_ that APK you obtained, that Android asks for
permission to install using that app.

The permission appears to be for installing using that specific app (AFAIK).

Once you've said yes for permission to install using that app, then it has
been my experience that Android no longer asks for permission (Although I'd
have to test it to see if there is a one-time permission or not, as I
usually install from the same set of apps so I gave them permission long
ago).

There are so many ways to _obtain_ an APK that we should probably start a
separate thread as the list is likely to be enormous as to the many ways.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 9:04:32 AM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:32:00 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> Ah. Imagine that. He got me. But he did offer some
> good links. Thanks.

It's been my observation people think they're utter geniuses for figuring
out what isn't even hidden from human eyes (which always makes me chuckle).

It's been my observation that those people are often the ones who are the
_least_ helpful (not because they're the least knowledgeable).

They own absolutely no understanding whatsoever of what is basic privacy.

There's a reason you put wrapping paper around a helpful voluntary and
rather useful gift, which they don't understand (and they never will).

Particularly when those super helpful voluntary gifts are in the public
domain (and which are so good in terms of value that they often show up in
the top searches for years to come).

These people can't ever fathom the simple concept that the wrapping paper
isn't what's important on a gift which is value that nobody else can give.

They can't comprehend that's what's important is the kind-hearted gift of
the rather uniquely helpful information contained inside the wrapping paper.

All they care about is the source of the wrapping paper.
--
This post is a waste of yours & my valuable time but it needed to be said.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 9:12:28 AM11/21/21

to

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 17:47:19 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

> I don't use any apps I can avoid. Most of them are spyware.

While this thread is all about the best FOSS apps for Android...

If you use any Google apps (for example, Chrome, YouTube, Google Play,
Messages, etc.) then you are welcome to ask me which are the best
google-free privacy based alternatives.

As an example of how much better you can do in terms of a FOSS privacy based
Google replacement, if you use YouTube, you can't beat this FOSS replacement
https://newpipe.net/

Just ask if you want to replace any Google app with its FOSS replacement.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 9:20:06 AM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 14.52, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:36:59 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
>
>> I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
>> I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
>> some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
>> authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?
>
> As far as I can tell from personal experience over the years, you never need
> the Google Playstore App to install apps on any Android phone.
>
> AFAIK, your only Google Playstore App restriction on most Android phones is
> you can't delete the Google Playstore App (unless you're rooted, which most
> people aren't).
>
> What I do is delete that Google Playstore App from my homescreen so I'm
> never tempted to use it. What's interesting is that even if you never use
> the Google Playstore App (mine is disabled), you can still update all your
> apps that are also found on the Google repo if that's what you like to do (I
> don't, but many people want to auto-update their apps, which is why I
> mention that observation.)

No, my tablet will not auto-update.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Ken Blake

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Nov 21, 2021, 10:39:25 AM11/21/21

to

Yes, often true. But not always.

Ken Blake

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Nov 21, 2021, 10:41:27 AM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 4:12 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Andy Burnelli" <sp...@nospam.com> wrote
> [...]
>
>> As I said, I don't use apps. I answered your post partly
>> because no one else did and I don't understand that
>> hostility. Also because I'm curious about the general
>> phenomenon of apps and what people use.
>
> Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
> some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.

Is he? I hadn't realized it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 10:46:51 AM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>> Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
>> some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.
>
> I was suspicious the first time I read the first post, but seeing he
> doesn't deny it, we can confirm it is him :-)

And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.

Nymshifting makes a troll killfile-free here for just a day or two. It's
nearly useless.

He can deny it if he wants to; it doesn't matter.

AJL

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 11:27:11 AM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 8:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

> And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
> distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.

Why even bother with the hassle of a killfile? They don't work anyway as
the perp is often repeated in others posts anyway. Just don't open the
posts of the people you don't like. Easy peasy. Truth be known though I
actually kinda enjoy the plonking drama... 8-O

AJL

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 11:27:15 AM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 6:36 AM, Mayayana wrote:

> "sideloading". (A term which I really dislike. It's not "side"
> loading.

Very true. On my Fire tablets it's toploading. And on my phone it's
bottomloading... ;)

AJL

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Nov 21, 2021, 11:27:18 AM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 5:54 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> it [tablet] does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
> register it.

I keep a fake email address for such situations.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 11:45:57 AM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 9:27 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 11/21/2021 8:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
>> distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.
>
> Why even bother with the hassle of a killfile? They don't work anyway as

They *do* work. Yes, they don't work as perfectly as I would like, but
as far as I'm concerned, they are significantly better than nothing.

And using a killfile is not at all a hassle to me. It's quick and easy
to killfile someone. It takes only a couple of seconds to killfile
someone, as opposed to the couple of seconds it would take to recognize
that *every* post made by a troll needed to be skipped over.

> the perp is often repeated in others posts anyway.

That's unfortunately true. If everyone would killfile the obvious
trolls, that problem would go away. I'm not holding my breath for
everyone to do it, but the more people who do it, the better the
situation would be.

> Just don't open the
> posts of the people you don't like. Easy peasy.

No, it's not hard to do it your way, but it's harder than killfiling.
Skipping over messages means that I would have to remember the names of
all the trolls, and I would have more unread messages, thereby taking
extra time to skip over them.

Moreover, the more people who killfile a troll, the better the newsgroup
would be. As I said above "If everyone would killfile the obvious
trolls, that problem would go away. I'm not holding my breath for
everyone to do it, but the more people who do it, the better the
situation would be." If nobody resopnded to a troll's posts, he would
soon get bored and go away. Trolls troll because that want to start
arguments.

One remaining point: I don't killfile people I don't like. I killfile
trolls. In almost every newsgroup I participate in, there are people I
don't like, but don't killfile.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 11:48:07 AM11/21/21

to

I don't want even that, this time.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 11:52:07 AM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 17.27, AJL wrote:

> On 11/21/2021 8:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
>> distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.
>
> Why even bother with the hassle of a killfile? They don't work anyway as
> the perp is often repeated in others posts anyway.

Nope: in Thunderbird you can automatically kill all the replies to him
if you wish.

> Just don't open the
> posts of the people you don't like. Easy peasy. Truth be known though I
> actually kinda enjoy the plonking drama... 8-O

I don't filter him out, I just want to know it is is him.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

AJL

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 12:03:35 PM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 9:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

> I don't killfile people I don't like. I killfile trolls.

Sometimes (alleged) trolls actually impart interesting and useful info.
If I used a killfile I wold miss it. I've found that to be true of our
(alleged) resident troll. YMMV...

> In almost every newsgroup I participate in, there are people I don't
> like, but don't killfile.

Whew...

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 12:52:44 PM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:46:05 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>> it [tablet] does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
>>> register it.
>>
>> I keep a fake email address for such situations.
>
> I don't want even that, this time.

This thread is all about learning more about FOSS apps but it could just as
well be extended to learning how to obtain FOSS apps with complete privacy.

Part of complete privacy is never having to set up an email for any reason!
(Once you set up even a fake email, you've already lost your privacy.)

I don't have an account for Google or Google Play on my phone & (AFAICT)
I can install any free app on Google Play without any problem whatsoever.

I don't know what's different about the tablets that aren't designed for
Google Play by default, but for all the Android devices designed for Google
Play I've owned, you _never_ need to create any email address whatsoever to
obtain & install any app off of Google Play, at least for free apps (AFAIK).

For example, this FOSS app gets any APK for any device & Android version.
https://auroraoss.com/

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 1:00:30 PM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 10:03:34 -0700, AJL wrote:

> Sometimes (alleged) trolls actually impart interesting and useful info.
> If I used a killfile I wold miss it. I've found that to be true of our
> (alleged) resident troll. YMMV...

*In general, anyone who calls me a troll _is_ a troll, since I don't troll.*

FACT:
(They can't ever find even a _single_ troll from me, ever, in the history of
this newsgroup, for example - and yet - I can instantly find their trolls.)

Besides that fact that those who call everyone else a troll are almost
always the trolls themselves, and besides the fact that those who call
everyone else trolls simply because they have no value to add are simply
proving they almost never have any capacity to contribute to the topic.

Consider this given the topic of this thread is FOSS Android apps...
a. I added a shit ton of on-topic value to this thread.
b. The knowledge I imparted is knowledge most of you simply do not have.
c. For all who called me a troll... ask _them_ what value they provided.

Answer === none

Their posts are almost always completely devoid of value, and, in fact, of
negative value as a result (as is this post, since it adds no value to the
topic of helpfully contributing to the topic of useful FOSS Android apps).
--
Those who call everyone elese trolls are almost always trolls themselves.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 1:10:52 PM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 10:03 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 11/21/2021 9:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> I don't killfile people I don't like. I killfile trolls.
>
> Sometimes (alleged) trolls actually impart interesting and useful info.
> If I used a killfile I wold miss it. I've found that to be true of our
> (alleged) resident troll. YMMV..

I suppose it's possible that I might miss something that I would find
interesting or useful. But I'll take that risk; the likelihood of that
happening is small and even on the few occasions when it does happen,
there's still a good chance I'll see in another message quoted by
someone else.

And if I don't see it, so be it. My solution may not be perfect, but
it's the best one for me.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 1:15:54 PM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 9:49 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 21/11/2021 17.27, AJL wrote:
>> On 11/21/2021 8:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>> And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
>>> distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.
>>
>> Why even bother with the hassle of a killfile? They don't work anyway as
>> the perp is often repeated in others posts anyway.
>
> Nope: in Thunderbird you can automatically kill all the replies to him
> if you wish.

As far as I know, you can't killfile all the replies to a person, you
can only killfile all the replies to him in a particular thread. That's
a pain to do every time he posts.

If I'm wrong please tell me how to do it.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 1:25:53 PM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:49:02 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I don't filter him out, I just want to know it is is him.

a. Why do you hate privacy?
b. Said another way - why do you care only about the wrapping paper?
c. What you should care about, IMHO, is the value of the gift inside.

1. I provided a shit ton of useful _on-topic_ links to FOSS apps.
2. I addressed every valid concern brought up in this thread I opened.
3. I read (& understood) every article Mayayana suggested in this thread.

I don't troll.

Anyone who calls me a troll I will ask to point to even a _single_ thread
I've ever opened up in decades on this newsgroup that they consider a troll.
- They never can.

Their entire belief system is based on absolutely nothing.

In fact, it turns out almost always, those who call me a troll are almost
always the ones who can't contribute even an iota of on topic value.

For example, how much on topic value did nospam contribute to this thread?
*Answer === none*

How much on topic value did Joerg Lorenz contribute to this (or any) thread?
*Answer === none*

How much on topic value can Ken Blake contribute to this (or any) thread?
*Answer === none*

How much on topic value did Allodoxaphobia contribute to this FOSS thread?
*Answer === none*

How much on topic value does AJL ever contribute to this or any FOSS thread?
*Answer === none*

If you ask me who the trolls are here, I'd say it's them as they posted
nothing whatsoever of any on-topic value (they can't & they never can).

The only people who posted any value were you, me, Mayayana, & Frank
Slootweg, and even then, nobody but I contributed value in terms of FOSS
apps that are useful to others.

You'd be an idiot to plonk me as you'd lose all the value that I helpfully
provide because all those people above are horribly unpreposessing people,
and I'm actually someone who cares that people get the information I impart.

The difference between you and me is I care a _lot_ more than you seem to
about privacy (e.g., it's why my Wi-Fi SSID AP's have both _optout_ and
_nomap in them even as I learned in this thread from Mayayan'a links, which
I read, that some companies are NOT respecting those designations - which is
also why I don't broadcast my SSID).

I do all that 'work' for privacy.
It's why I use different wrapping paper.

But the gift inside of my purposefully helpful knowledge is always the same.
--
This entire post is a waste of my valuable time because of what Carlos did.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 1:49:51 PM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:16:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> No, my tablet will not auto-update.

Most people don't seem to know what I know simply because they never tried
to do what I do, which is that I always set up my Android phones without the
Google Play App and without using _any_ email whatsoever - and yet - I can
easily get (and update) any app that I want off Google Play.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yWq5g17M/settings07.jpg>

While I always read every post in every thread I initiate, I don't recall
exactly who it was that said they didn't have the Google Play App and then
later said they did... so looking back only at your posts let me first get
back to speed before I respond to your concern (since I can help you).

11/21/2021 12:52:40 PM === a completely off topic common troll by Carlos
11/21/2021 01:54:50 PM === you found the play store but didn't "register" it
11/21/2021 03:16:08 PM === your tablet will not auto-update the apps
11/21/2021 05:46:04 PM === you don't want to create a fake email for apps
11/21/2021 05:49:02 PM == another completely off topic troll by Carlos

OK. It was you (I had thought so but I wanted to be sure so as to be able to
help you without wasting your time like you wasted ours with your common
trolls).

Ignoring the glaringly obvious fact that 40% of the time you wasted our
valuable time by your completely off topic common trolls, I think you _can_
update _all_ the apps on your phone that are also found on Google Play _if_
you press the button inside of the Google Play App menu that does that.

Note that I have an entire thread on this topic, so to repeat the details
would be wasting even more of my time trying to help you since I already
gave you this answer many times in the past, but I care about you Carlos.

Even though I never use Google Play, and even though I don't have _any_
email registered on my Android phone, I can still update all the apps which
are found on Google Play at a single touch of a button from within the
Google Play app itself.

I repeat for clarity...

As far as my experience goes, I do not get my apps using the Google Play app
(it's disabled on my system), and, like you, I _never_ need to create a
bogus email address just to get apps off of Google Play's app repository,
yet (if I want to - which I don't) I can easily update all my apps at a
simple touch of a menu entry inside the topright menu of the Google Play App
itself.

I have an entire thread on this topic somewhere in the archives, Carlos.
So I know it works.

I don't profess to know _how_ the hell that works - but for me it works.
Have you tried it?
--
Note that I'm aware that touching a button isn't "automatic" but it's close.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 2:00:09 PM11/21/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 11:10:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> My solution may not be perfect, but
> it's the best one for me.

Jesus Christ Ken Blake.
Six off topic trolls in this one thread alone... and counting?

When will you ever stop trolling this newsgroup, Ken Blake?
Will you please stop your incessant off topic trolling of this thread.

More than 90% of this FOSS thread is wasted with your worthless off-topic
trolls and the similarly worthless trolls from the other completely off
topic trolls by nospam, Joerg Lorenz, AJL, and Allodoxaphobia.

*If you have absolutely nothing on topic to add, please stop proving it.*

Either you know of good FOSS Android apps to suggest to others - or you
don't. Clearly you don't. So please stop proving your posts add no value.
--
This post is in response to the completely off topic trolling of Ken Blake
(as such, it's a complete waste of my and your valuable time) simply because
Ken Blake has trolled this thread

Frank Slootweg

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Nov 21, 2021, 2:40:35 PM11/21/21

to

Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | Finally I found it does have the play store, but anyway, I don't want to
> | register it.
> |
>
> I don't know about the registering and playstore app.
> I've been going to APKPure. But I have found that for
> some apps it sends me to Google. Apparently some app
> authors cooperate with some kind of Google monopoly?
> I don't really understand how all this works. I don't
> remember enabling "sideloading".

The relevant setting doesn't mention 'sideloading', but something like
'unknown sources', 'unknown apps', etc. (depend on the Android version
or/and manufacturer).

But it's nothing to worry about, because when you try to install an
APK, your device will tell you if and how you have to give the
permission to 'sideload'. FYI, on my Android 10/11 device, the
permission is per app *from* which you're doing the APK installation,
for example *from* the file manager ('My Files' app in my case). So for
example you can disallow (read: not allow) your browser to install an
APK it has downloaded.

> (A term which I really
> dislike. It's not "side" loading. It's installing software.

I think it's a quite natural term, because you install the software
not in the normal way, but by side-stepping the normal (Play Store)
process.

I case you're interested, this is what Wikpedia has to say about it:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading>

> There's no reason to start defining that as aberrant
> behavior. Apple is the aberrant behavior.

"There's no reason to" get your knickers in a twist! :-) Nobody is
saying anything about Apple. That Apple and most Apple fanbois/seeds/
zealot sconsider it "aberrant behavior", is irrelevant, especially in an
Android newsgroup.

Frank Slootweg

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 3:01:49 PM11/21/21

to

AJL <noe...@none.com> wrote:
> On 11/21/2021 9:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> > I don't killfile people I don't like. I killfile trolls.
>
> Sometimes (alleged) trolls actually impart interesting and useful info.
> If I used a killfile I wold miss it. I've found that to be true of our
> (alleged) resident troll. YMMV...

I more or less do the same. I only killfile posters who do their
utmost to post nothing of any value or/and otherwise disrupt the group.
At the moment, only two such posters in the group.

> > In almost every newsgroup I participate in, there are people I don't
> > like, but don't killfile.
>
> Whew...

Yep, that was a narrow escape, wasn't it!?

Frank Slootweg

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 3:13:26 PM11/21/21

to

Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Frank Slootweg" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

>
> | Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
> | some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.
>

> Ah. Imagine that. He got me. But he did offer some
> good links. Thanks.

No worries. There's no need for *us* to be paranoid about it and
always wondering "Is it him?".

And if some of his info is of use, all the better.

BTW, only in the last 9 days, there are three other 'Arlen's in
alt.comp.os.windows-10. See (for yourself) if you can spot them! :-)

AJL

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 3:33:33 PM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 10:52 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:

> I don't know what's different about the tablets that aren't designed
> for Google Play

My Amazon Fire tablets don't come with the Google Play Store. But I can
sideload apps from the Play Store and they run just fine.

However if I try the opposite, that is run apps obtained from the Amazon
Appstore on a non-Amazon tablet they won't run. They complain they need
the Appstore to run. Once the Appstore is installed they run just fine.

And you thought Google was sneaky...

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 4:16:07 PM11/21/21

to

I can kill with a single and simple rule all the posts of one person,
all the direct reply to that post, and all the answers to any answer to
that post. That is, the entire subthread beneath him. I can also kill
the entire thread from the first post anytime the troll appears in the
middle (I don't do this).

Just try it :-)

>
> If I'm wrong please tell me how to do it.

Tools, Message filters, create new filter.

Name: Junk.

[X] manually Run
[X] Getting new mail before junk classification

match any of the following.
From contains [Good Guy]

Perform this actions
Ignore subthread

[OK]

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 4:20:08 PM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 19.00, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 10:03:34 -0700, AJL wrote:
>
>> Sometimes (alleged) trolls actually impart interesting and useful info.
>> If I used a killfile I wold miss it. I've found that to be true of our
>> (alleged) resident troll. YMMV...
>
> *In general, anyone who calls me a troll _is_ a troll, since I don't troll.*

Yes, Arlen, you do.

Each time you change your name you fit the definition: a name shifter is
a troll, by definition, no matter what you say to the contrary.

And I told you something like that the first time I noticed you did
this, several years ago. I think at the time you went by "harry newton".
It is true that sometimes you post interesting things, which is why I
don't have you kill filled and sometimes I answer your posts. But the
fact of changing your name, for whatever reason, defines you as a troll.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Ken Blake

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Nov 21, 2021, 4:22:22 PM11/21/21

to

OK, thanks. I just tried it. I'll see how it works.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 4:28:07 PM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 19.25, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:49:02 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I don't filter him out, I just want to know it is is him.
>
> a. Why do you hate privacy?

I don't.

You are not protecting your privacy by changing your name, as anybody
that tracks you knows your sixty names and archives your every post, and
can trace you back to your very house if they have that intention and
the resources.

> b. Said another way - why do you care only about the wrapping paper?
> c. What you should care about, IMHO, is the value of the gift inside.
>
> 1. I provided a shit ton of useful _on-topic_ links to FOSS apps.
> 2. I addressed every valid concern brought up in this thread I opened.
> 3. I read (& understood) every article Mayayana suggested in this thread.
>
> I don't troll.

You do. Definition of troll:

...
(list of "or" conditions)
Name shifter
...

You shift names, thus you are a troll, by definition. Even if you
sometimes post useful information, which you do.

Rest ignored.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 4:36:07 PM11/21/21

to

On 21/11/2021 19.49, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:16:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> No, my tablet will not auto-update.
>
> Most people don't seem to know what I know simply because they never tried
> to do what I do, which is that I always set up my Android phones without the
> Google Play App and without using _any_ email whatsoever - and yet - I can
> easily get (and update) any app that I want off Google Play.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/yWq5g17M/settings07.jpg>
>
> While I always read every post in every thread I initiate, I don't recall
> exactly who it was that said they didn't have the Google Play App and then
> later said they did... so looking back only at your posts let me first get
> back to speed before I respond to your concern (since I can help you).
>
> 11/21/2021 12:52:40 PM === a completely off topic common troll by Carlos

Oh, thankyou. Why trolling? It is a question about an android tablet in
the android group.

...

> Ignoring the glaringly obvious fact that 40% of the time you wasted our
> valuable time by your completely off topic common trolls, I think you _can_
> update _all_ the apps on your phone that are also found on Google Play _if_
> you press the button inside of the Google Play App menu that does that.

Google play in that table refuses to run at all, unless I register. Just
a fact. There is no other button except login or create account.

The rest ignored.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

sms

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Nov 21, 2021, 5:42:42 PM11/21/21

to

It's not useless. While some of the trolls nymshift, several of the
worst trolls do not. Also, it's possible to filter on things besides the
sender's e-mail address so you can craft filters that do pretty well
even with nymshifters.

When I check my filter log there are a lot of trolls' posts that get
removed, so they do have some effect.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 21, 2021, 6:00:23 PM11/21/21

to

On 11/21/2021 3:42 PM, sms wrote:
> On 11/21/2021 7:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 11/21/2021 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/11/2021 12.12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>>>> Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're
>>>> up to
>>>> some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.
>>>
>>> I was suspicious the first time I read the first post, but seeing he
>>> doesn't deny it, we can confirm it is him :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
>> distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.
>>
>> Nymshifting makes a troll killfile-free here for just a day or two. It's
>> nearly useless.
>
> It's not useless. While some of the trolls nymshift, several of the
> worst trolls do not. Also, it's possible to filter on things besides the
> sender's e-mail address so you can craft filters that do pretty well
> even with nymshifters.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but what I meant was that nymshifting is
useless to the troll, despite how often they do it.

Andy Burns

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Nov 22, 2021, 3:16:27 AM11/22/21

to

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Nobody responded, because 'Andy Burnelli' is yet another - we're up to
> some 60 nyms and counting - nym of 'Arlen Holder'.

You have to wonder why "Arlen" bothers with dreaming up new nyms, when his
writing style is such a tell-tale?

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 7:24:07 AM11/22/21

to

He claims privacy, but that's bollocks. He is recognized fast.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Chris

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Nov 22, 2021, 1:15:40 PM11/22/21

to

It's privacy from "them" not us :D

sms

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Nov 22, 2021, 2:54:48 PM11/22/21

to

He can evade a kill-file for at least a day or two.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 3:05:56 PM11/22/21

to

Yes, that's the typical reason why many trolls so often nym-shift.

If he thinks evading it for a day or two is valuable, so be it. It's his
prerogative to think whatever wants, no matter how many of the rest of
us here disagree with him.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 3:45:29 PM11/22/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:15:39 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

>>> You have to wonder why "Arlen" bothers with dreaming up new nyms, when
>>> his writing style is such a tell-tale?
>>

>> He claims privacy, but that's bollocks. He is recognized fast.
>
> It's privacy from "them" not us :D

FACT:
1. This thread is asking/supplying the best FOSS apps for Android.
2. Only one person added on topic value to the thread topic.
3. Everyone else can't add any on topic value (and they proved that).

FACT:
4. Only an utter idiot couldn't figure out my posts on this newsgroup.
5. I don't change my writing style - nor my privacy advice for example.
6. I don't even attempt to change my screenshots for heaven's sake.
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRkkvRJH/intent01.jpg
<https://i.postimg.cc/jS923YfR/intent02.jpg
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SPjFFp6/intent03.jpg

FACT:
In this thread alone, these 8 common trolls posted 20 trolls.
1. *Joerg Lorenz* <hugy...@gmx.ch> 11/19/2021 1:46:40 PM
2. *nospam* <nos...@nospam.invalid> 11/19/2021 1:45:34 PM
3. *Joerg Lorenz* <hugy...@gmx.ch> 11/19/2021 11:18:20 PM
4. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/20/2021 1:23:02 PM
5. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 8:39:22 AM
6. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 8:46:48 AM
7. *AJL* <noe...@none.com> 11/21/2021 9:27:10 AM
8. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 9:45:54 AM
9. *Frank Slootweg* <th...@ddress.is.invalid> 11/21/2021 8:01:48 PM
10. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 11:10:48 AM
11. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 11:15:50 AM
12. *Carlos E.R.* <robin_...@es.invalid> 11/21/2021 10:14:16 PM
13. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 2:22:18 PM
14. *Carlos E.R.* <robin_...@es.invalid> 11/21/2021 10:25:16 PM
15. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 4:00:20 PM
16. *Frank Slootweg* <th...@ddress.is.invalid> 11/21/2021 8:13:24 PM
17. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 8:41:24 AM
18. *Andy Burns* <use...@andyburns.uk> 11/22/2021 8:16:26 AM
19. *Carlos E.R.* <robin_...@es.invalid> 11/22/2021 1:21:28 PM
20. *sms* <scharf...@geemail.com> 11/22/2021 11:54:46 AM
21. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/22/2021 1:05:52 PM

All of you can only troll - since you can't add on topic technical value.
Why must you prove that you're incapable of ever adding on topic value?
--
These 8 trolls infested this thread and actually subtracted value each time:
*Joerg Lorenz* *nospam* *Ken Blake* *AJL* *Frank Slootweg*
*Carlos E.R.* *Andy Burns* *sms*

sms

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 3:55:44 PM11/22/21

to

On 11/22/2021 12:05 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

<snip>

> If he thinks evading it for a day or two is valuable, so be it. It's his
> prerogative to think whatever wants, no matter how many of the rest of
> us here disagree with him.

The sad thing is that, on occasion, he actually posts useful stuff.
Probably 30-35% of the stuff he posts is accurate and useful, which is a
lot more than you can say for several of the other trolls.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 4:01:21 PM11/22/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:34:11 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Oh, thankyou. Why trolling?

Carlos, please don't continue to be a despicable person.
Try to act like an adult for once, Carlos.

I'm the _only_ one on this thread who is posting on-topic valuable help.
The rest are the trolls - which if you don't see - you're an idiot.

Nonetheless, I'm a caring person (I'm nothing like you, Carlos).
You're a despicable person. I'm not. I'm actually a very caring & helpful
and quite intelligent person who wants to help people.

You just hate that I strive for privacy.
You despise that fact (probably because you're too stupid to understand it).

> It is a question about an android tablet in the android group.

As far as I can see Carlos, you can easily do what you seem to want to do.

In fact, I already did it for you (and here's the screenshot to prove it).
<https://i.postimg.cc/HsXKj7WK/updateallapps01.jpg>

Just post back when you've found the "update" button in the Google Play app.

Notice I spent even more of my rather valuable time testing it out for you,
which, you must understand, takes me longer than most people not only
because I have Google Play disabled but I also provide highly annotated
rather helpful detailed screenshots (which almost nobody else ever does -
mostly because they're not as helpful as I am).

a. There is no Google Play App in my app drawer (not even in a search)
b. That Google Play App only shows up in a search inside my App Manager
c. The app manager can redirect me to Google Play in my Android settings
d. From my Android Settings, only then can I re-enable the Google Play App

Keeping in mind I don't ever use Google Play to obtain apps, and keeping in
mind I don't have any Google Account registered on any of my Android phones,
when I press this "Updates" button in the Google Play App, it says "Checking
for Updates", and then, within seconds, it says "Update all" or for each app
it found that needed an update, it provided an "Update" button to update it.

Notice that Google Play app _can_ autoupdate apps; I just have it off.

Bear in mind these three facts which prove my point (and which most people
do not know simply because very few people set up Android sans an account):
a. I do NOT have a Google Account "registered" with my phone
b. Therefore, the Google Play app has no "registration" with any email addy
c. Therefore, predictably, the Google Play App won't download APKs
d. Even so, the Google Play App _can_ update apps without that email login

Most people don't know any of this because they only do things the way
they're told to do them - but if anyone out there knows _how_ Google Play
App knows which apps to update, I'd love to know how it knows that.

I don't expect anyone to know anywhere near what I know though (which is
sad), because all most people could do who posted to this thread was troll.

These people are clearly despicable human beings who care about nobody.
Nonetheless, I'm a good person with purposefully helpful intent.

In fact, so far I'm the only helpful kind hearted person who posted the good
FOSS apps out there (which is the main technical topic, after all).

In summary, the trolls have infested this thread such that only about five
posts, in total, contained on-topic value that was of any use to anyone.

Yet, even after all that, I'm still helpful to you Carlos, even as almost
every post from you proves you're a despicable piece of shit human being.

The fact is even without a Google Account, and even without logging into the
Google Play App (which requires a Google Account most of the time), you can
_still_ update your apps with a press of a button inside of the Google Play
app as I show in this series of screenshots below created just for you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/HsXKj7WK/updateallapps01.jpg>

Joerg Lorenz

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 4:11:31 PM11/22/21

to

Am 22.11.21 um 21:45 schrieb Andy Burnelli:

Arlen, this is your coming out! You urgently need professional help.

> In this thread alone, these 8 common trolls posted 20 trolls.
> 1. *Joerg Lorenz* <hugy...@gmx.ch> 11/19/2021 1:46:40 PM
> 2. *nospam* <nos...@nospam.invalid> 11/19/2021 1:45:34 PM
> 3. *Joerg Lorenz* <hugy...@gmx.ch> 11/19/2021 11:18:20 PM
> 4. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/20/2021 1:23:02 PM
> 5. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 8:39:22 AM
> 6. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 8:46:48 AM
> 7. *AJL* <noe...@none.com> 11/21/2021 9:27:10 AM
> 8. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 9:45:54 AM
> 9. *Frank Slootweg* <th...@ddress.is.invalid> 11/21/2021 8:01:48 PM
> 10. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 11:10:48 AM
> 11. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 11:15:50 AM
> 12. *Carlos E.R.* <robin_...@es.invalid> 11/21/2021 10:14:16 PM
> 13. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 2:22:18 PM
> 14. *Carlos E.R.* <robin_...@es.invalid> 11/21/2021 10:25:16 PM
> 15. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 4:00:20 PM
> 16. *Frank Slootweg* <th...@ddress.is.invalid> 11/21/2021 8:13:24 PM
> 17. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/21/2021 8:41:24 AM
> 18. *Andy Burns* <use...@andyburns.uk> 11/22/2021 8:16:26 AM
> 19. *Carlos E.R.* <robin_...@es.invalid> 11/22/2021 1:21:28 PM
> 20. *sms* <scharf...@geemail.com> 11/22/2021 11:54:46 AM
> 21. *Ken Blake* <K...@invalidinvalid.com> 11/22/2021 1:05:52 PM
>
> All of you can only troll - since you can't add on topic technical value.
> Why must you prove that you're incapable of ever adding on topic value?

Because wo do not have to prove you anything at any given time? With
your non-adult behaviour you destroy this group. Always.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 4:17:26 PM11/22/21

to

Am 21.11.21 um 17:27 schrieb AJL:

> On 11/21/2021 8:46 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> And for anyone here who doesn't realize it, nymshifting is one of the
>> distinguishing marks of a troll, done to escape people's killfiles.
>

> Why even bother with the hassle of a killfile? They don't work anyway as

> the perp is often repeated in others posts anyway. Just don't open the

Then you should learn to filter correctly: Action would be "ignore
subthread" and not "delete" as this is destroying threads too. You won't
see this Troll anymore.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 4:18:02 PM11/22/21

to

On 11/22/2021 1:55 PM, sms wrote:
> On 11/22/2021 12:05 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> If he thinks evading it for a day or two is valuable, so be it. It's his
>> prerogative to think whatever wants, no matter how many of the rest of
>> us here disagree with him.
>
> The sad thing is that, on occasion, he actually posts useful stuff.

Sad? Not to me. I think I've said it here before, but I'll say it more
strongly this time: I don't give a shit.

I'm not interested in seeing something a troll posts that is useful. The
great majority of it isn't useful, and I don't want to wade through his
(or any other troll's) crap in the hope of finding something useful.

> Probably 30-35% of the stuff he posts is accurate and useful,

Since he's long been killfiled here, I haven't seen anything he's posted
that is useful, and I have trouble believing that the percentage is
anywhere near that high. Moreover I caution anyone who reads his posts
to believe something that comes from him and appears to be useful.
Appearing to be useful isn't the same as being useful, and if it comes
from a troll it very likely isn't. Following a troll's advice or going
to a website he suggests is more likely to cause problems than to solve
them.

Ken Blake

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 4:19:36 PM11/22/21

to

He does not destroy this groups. He tries, but fortunately he doesn't
succeed.

nospam

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 4:31:04 PM11/22/21

to

In article <j02fo8...@mid.individual.net>, Ken Blake

<K...@invalidinvalid.com> wrote:

>
> > Probably 30-35% of the stuff he posts is accurate and useful,
>
>
> Since he's long been killfiled here, I haven't seen anything he's posted
> that is useful, and I have trouble believing that the percentage is
> anywhere near that high.

it's nowhere near that high.

Andy Burnelli

unread,

Nov 22, 2021, 5:09:51 PM11/22/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 08:56:07 -0800, sms wrote:

> Many apps work fine this way, even on devices where the app doesn't even
> show up in the Google Play store for a specific device

Bear in mind that you can easily spoof any Android (SDK) version and almost
any Android phone using the FOSS Aurora utility <https://auroraoss.com/>,

You get the _exact_ file that is on the Google Play repository.
Without Google Play.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 22, 2021, 5:16:48 PM11/22/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 14:19:33 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> He does not destroy this groups. He tries, but fortunately he doesn't
> succeed.

Says Ken Blake who has trolled this this thread the most, but the fact
remains that nobody (certainly not Ken Blake) has the necessary intelligence
and knowledge to add even a single useful FOSS app to the technical topic.

Meanwile, I supplied somewhere around a score, and, some of those are the
best Android apps on the planet, bar none.

What you trolls _hate_, other than privacy, is that you're ignorant.
You have never in your entire lives ever been able to add on topic value.

Certainly you, Ken Blake, keep proving that here.

FACT:
*You, Ken Blake, can't name even a _single_ FOSS app of any added value.*
--
All you trolls _can_ do, is troll.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 22, 2021, 5:20:05 PM11/22/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:31:03 -0500, nospam wrote:

> it's nowhere near that high.

FACT:
I added something like a score of rather useful FOSS apps
(some of which are the finest Android apps on this planet).

FACT:
You added none.

FACT:
Not a single post from you in this thread added any on topic value.

Assessment:
Your own behavior provides the assessment you are nothing but a troll.
--
In fact... every post from you _subtracted_ value from this thread.

sms

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Nov 22, 2021, 5:28:59 PM11/22/21

to

On 11/22/2021 1:19 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

<snip>

> He does not destroy this groups. He tries, but fortunately he doesn't
> succeed.

True. What is somewhat amusing is to read this group on Google Groups,
without filters, instead of using a real Usenet newsreader with
extensive filters. It's like a whole sub-group of all the trolls,
arguing with, and insulting, each other. But unlike some Usenet groups,
trolls have not destroyed it, yet.

Reddit is much more useful these days than Usenet because trolls are not
tolerated by moderators.

Carlos E.R.

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Nov 22, 2021, 5:44:06 PM11/22/21

to

On 22/11/2021 22.01, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:34:11 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Oh, thankyou. Why trolling?
>
> Carlos, please don't continue to be a despicable person.
> Try to act like an adult for once, Carlos.
>
> I'm the _only_ one on this thread who is posting on-topic valuable help.
> The rest are the trolls - which if you don't see - you're an idiot.

Ignoring this post.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 9:01:55 AM11/23/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 14:28:57 -0800, sms wrote:

> What is somewhat amusing is to read this group on Google Groups,
> without filters, instead of using a real Usenet newsreader with
> extensive filters. It's like a whole sub-group of all the trolls,
> arguing with, and insulting, each other. But unlike some Usenet groups,
> trolls have not destroyed it, yet.

Steve,
FACT:
This thread contains about 75 posts, almost 70 of which are you trolls.

FACT:
A troll is one who trolls a thread.

FACT:
You trolled this thread yourself, but you're not the worst offender.
Ken Blake is the worst troll but Carlos isn't far behind Ken in trolling.
Thankfully, nospam and Joerg Lorenz trolled far fewer times than they did.

This group is infested with you common trolls.
Not a single one of you common trolls added _any_ on-topic value
(Mayayana excepted, as he added ancilliary value.)

Worse... not a single one of you common trolls even understood the topic.
FACT: Not a single one of you common trolls added any value to the topic.

FACT:
I'm the only one in this thread who posted any on-topic value whatsoever,
(although Mayayana added ancillary value).

SUMMARY:
The common worthless pieces of shit like you, Steve, have infested this
newsgroup (easily proven with this one thread alone!); but you're not the
worst offender.

Ken Blake is (along with Carlos, Joerg, nospam, Frank, Andy Burns, et al.).

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 9:04:43 AM11/23/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:18:09 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Yes, Arlen, you do.

You hate privacy Carlos.
Why do you despise that I care about my privacy?

If you are going to fabricate out of absolutely nothing that I troll, then
prove it Carlos. Prove it or prove that you're a despicable person Carlos.

Either way.

Point to a _single_ thread of mine, in the entire history of this newsgroup,
Carlos, that is a troll.

If you can't point to even a _single_ troll from me, then you're a
despicable person for fabricating out of nothing that you claim I am one.

Note you trolled this thread in 50% of your posts, where the definition is
you posted completely off topic bullshit that has absolutely _nothing_
whatsoever to do with the thread topic Carlos, and which provides no value,
and, in fact, all your trolls (and those from others) _subtracted_ value.

YOU, Carlos, are the troll; not me.
The trolls like you are all despicable human beings, Carlos.

You are a despicable human being _because_ you troll.
Half of your posts, Carlos, are trolls.

This, in and of itself, proves you're a despicable piece of shit, Carlos.

> Each time you change your name you fit the definition: a name shifter is
> a troll, by definition, no matter what you say to the contrary.

You're an idiot.

We've covered this before, where what you just said is akin to saying all
Jewish people are greedy, all Italians are in the Mafia, all black people
are poor, all people wearing face masks are bank robbers.

Carlos... you are an idiot.

You can't just say every black person is poor just because they're black.
They have to actually be poor for you to claim they're poor.

You can't say every Jewish person is greedy just because they're Jewish.
They have to actually be greedy for you to claim they're greedy.

You can't just say every Italian is a Mafioso just because they're Italian.
They have to actually be in the Mafia for you to claim they're a Mafioso.

You can't just say every person wearing a face mask is robbing banks.
They have to actually rob banks for you to claim they're bank robbers.

To wit...
You can't just say everyone who cares about header privacy is a troll.
They have to actually troll for you morons to claim they're trolls.

Carlos... I am dismayed. You are an utter idiot.
You're so stupid that I can't fathom people as dumb as you prove to be.

You can't figure out the simple fact that someone has to troll in order to
be accurately called a troll - and yet - you - yourself - trolled in half
your posts!

> And I told you something like that the first time I noticed you did
> this, several years ago. I think at the time you went by "harry newton".
> It is true that sometimes you post interesting things, which is why I
> don't have you kill filled and sometimes I answer your posts. But the
> fact of changing your name, for whatever reason, defines you as a troll.

Look. You're a despicable person. I'm not.
You're the equivalent of a human piece of shit, Carlos. I'm not.
You're so ignorant, I find it hard to believe I'm trying to help you.

Still... I'm a good person. That's what I am. You don't like that.
You hate that I want privacy.

Now let's forget that you're an idiot.
And let's forget that you're the human equivalent of a piece of shit.

Let's get back to the topic.
If you post like a human should, then I'll respond like a human should.

I've told you many times what I was taught teaching kindergarten kids.
If you want to be treated like an adult, Carlos, then act like an adult.

If you act like an adult in the next post, Carlos, I'll treat you as one.
I'm a mirror of your implied intent.

Usenet is water under the bridge to me.
Act like an adult - I'll treat you like an adult.

Act like a human piece of shit, Carlos... and I'll treat you like shit.
It's 100% up to you.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 9:07:04 AM11/23/21

to

On 21 Nov 2021 20:01:48 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> I only killfile posters who do their
> utmost to post nothing of any value

How much added on topic value did _you_ add to this thread, Frank?
--
HINT: You only trolled it.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 9:11:40 AM11/23/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 23:43:11 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> I'm the _only_ one on this thread who is posting on-topic valuable help.
>> The rest are the trolls - which if you don't see - you're an idiot.
>
> Ignoring this post.

Which proved my point for me.

You hate privacy so much that you call everyone who wants privacy a troll.

Yet it's unassailable logic that someone must troll in order to be a troll.

You hate that you have absolutely no defense to that basic adult logic.

So you ignore all logic.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 9:18:19 AM11/23/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 18:15:39 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

>> when his writing style is such a tell-tale?
>> He claims privacy, but that's bollocks. He is recognized fast.
>
> It's privacy from "them" not us :D

*Chris is the only one who owned basic adult cognitive skills here...
*It's privacy from "_them_", not us :D*

I'm not seeking privacy in the body (hell, I post my general location,
thousands of photos, and thousands of screenshots of the _same_ phone!).

I even post the same apps (and I always say I don't even have a Google
Account and that I scrape the Google Play database with Aurora, etc.).

If it takes someone more than five seconds to figure me out, they're dumb.

Yet trolls in this newsgroup think they're geniuses for figuring out this?
<https://i.postimg.cc/HsXKj7WK/updateallapps01.jpg>
--
Chris impressed me; the rest of the trolls are DK first quartile in that
they think they're utter geniuses for figuring out what isn't even hidden.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 9:25:52 AM11/23/21

to

On 21 Nov 2021 20:13:24 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> There's no need for *us* to be paranoid about it and
> always wondering "Is it him?".

Frank,
Long ago, I used to respect you but you're just proving to be a moron.
I post hundreds of photos of the _same_ phone for Christs' sake!
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRkkvRJH/intent01.jpg>

And you think you're a genius for figuring out that I don't hide who I am in
the body (only in the headers)?

Only Chris understood.
None of you worthless pieces of shit, Frank, understands what privacy is.

Worse, not a single one of you common trolls added any on-topic value.
Not you Frank.

How stupid are you Frank?
Seriously.

a. You don't own the cognitive skills to even understand the topic, Frank.
b. Certainly you've proven incapable of adding any on-topic value, Frank.
c. You consider anyone who wants privacy to be a troll, Frank.

And yet, with all that proof that you are nothing but a common troll, Frank,
you still consider yourself a genius for figuring out what isn't hidden?
<https://i.postimg.cc/HsXKj7WK/updateallapps01.jpg>
--
I shake my head in dismay as in decades of working in startups, I have never
met people as fantastically stupid as Frank proved to be in this thread.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 10:55:43 AM11/23/21

to

Despite the common trolls infesting this thread (none of whom even
comprehended the topic since none of them added any on topic value
whatsoever)... I'm still hoping to edify people as to what are the great
FOSS apps out there that I've found in my experience.

Just now I used another fantastic FOSS app to help Carlos (since I'm a good
person, unlike the despicable trolls) which is called "App Manager".

While a lot of apps have "App Manager" in the name, the app I'm talking
about was discussed moments ago while I was helping Carlos, so I'll just
save time by appending that post below (which contains the needed URL).

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 00:08:25 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> This is what I get. I can only "stop" or "report", which is greyed out.
> Nothing else in the screen responds to taps.
>
> https://susepaste.org/48327850
>
> Nothing similar two what you post. Unless you are using some special
> took that you do not say.

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for posting that screenshot as there is often more detail in
screenshots (which is why I often supply them myself, to be helpful).
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xxyCJYB/updateallapps04.jpg>

One important factor is the unique name of the "Play Store" app, which, for
you, appears to be the same as it is for me (com.android.vending).
<https://i.postimg.cc/02xKj04h/updateallapps03.jpg>

Mine is stock for my phone (Samsung Galaxy A325G) currently at app version
27.9.15-21 (which I don't think matters as I keep mine at the stock version
because I don't update anything unless I use it and know the update is
useful). <https://i.postimg.cc/4djB69pr/updateallapps02.jpg>

The fantastic FOSS app I used that tells me pages and pages and pages about
any given app is App Manager (which is by far the best app manager extent).
<https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>

My Google Play (it's called "Play Store" in the icon) isn't any different
than any other stock Google Play Store App (afaik) so it should work the
same for you (unless your tablet is vastly different than stock Android).
<https://i.postimg.cc/HsXKj7WK/updateallapps01.jpg>

About the only thing I do differently is you'll notice for privacy reasons
I've denied that Google Play App any permission for location (why would it
need my location?) but otherwise, ever since yesterday I have had it not
disabled so I can test it for you.

What happens for me when I click on the Google Play homescreen icon is that
first screen comes up, which then allows me to press the update button
(without having any login to Google whatsoever) as long as I'm on a network.

I'm sure almost everyone sees the same GUI as I do, so we can ask them too.
Anyone who is a good person will step in to test it for you like I did.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 11:59:28 AM11/23/21

to

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 11:54:46 -0800, sms wrote:

> He can evade a kill-file for at least a day or two.

What shocks me is how stupid you always prove to be, Steve.
If you actually think that, you're a moron as you have no idea what you
don't know (and I do know tons about that statement you don't know).

So please Steve... stop proving you're an utter idiot.
Even Alan Baker said the same thing - you're both on the same level Steve.

If you only knew what I know about headers - you'd see why your statement
proves you are clearly an idiot. (Ask Frank Slootweg, for example, about
headers as Frank ran a Usenet server and Frank knows exactly what headers
can be spoofed for privacy reasons.)

Anyway, since I'm not a despicable person like Steve clearly is, I am still
adding on-topic technical value to this thread, which I must remind all you
idiot trolls is about useful FOSS apps for Android.

Again, I just advised Carlos & Andy & Piet as to some useful traits of
Google Play where I added another rather useful FOSS app to the mix.

To save my valuable time, particularly given nobody on this thread even
understood the topic, I'll just paste what I wrote to KenW which contains
yet another fantastic FOSS app (many of which are privacy replacements for
Google apps).

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:59:13 -0700, KenW wrote:

> Google knows everything about you.

Not really.
Especially if you don't have a Google account on your phone.
And in terms of Google Play, if you never log into it (mine is disabled).

The Google Play app enumeration only catches these 14 apps on my phone.
1. Google Maps
2. Google Duo
3. Google
4. Android Auto
5. Speech Services by Google
6. Android System WebView
7. YouTube
8. Google Play Services for AR
9. Your Phone Companion
10. Microsoft OneDrive
11. Samsung My Files
12. Samsung Internet Browser
13. Samsung Push Service
14. T-Mobile
15. Google Play Services (accidentally updated 2 days ago)

My initial suspicion is these are all stock apps since I don't use _any_ of
them directly. And certainly I have _hundreds_ of apps which mostly came
from the Google repo, and certainly I don't habitually update them.

Logic tells me Google Play only updates a subset of apps on my phone.
However, on most phones, that subset is likely to be more substantial.

> You know Chrome spies why not their apps ?

I'm a logical person so I agree with you on Google spying.
But that's why I use the best FOSS replacements for all Google apps.

The FOSS app I use most for my Chrome replacement is Ungoogled Chromium.
Do you have any evidence that it spys on us?
<https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-android>

The FOSS app I use most for my Google Play replacement is Aurora.
Do you have any evidence that it spys on us?
<https://auroraoss.com/>

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 7:36:57 PM11/23/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:25:17 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> You are not protecting your privacy by changing your name, as anybody
> that tracks you knows your sixty names and archives your every post, and
> can trace you back to your very house if they have that intention and
> the resources.

Carlos,

Everything you believe in, is easily shown to be dead wrong, Carlos.

Do you have any idea how many _thousands_ of articles I write on the net?
How many of my XDA-Developer forum tutorials have you seen of mine, Carlos?

Everything you write reeks of the fact you lack adult cognitive skills.

In all my years in colleges and in Silicon Valley startups, I've never even
once met a human being, in the flesh, as incredibly ignorant as you are.

I'm helpful, intelligent, resourceful, and above all things, caring.
You're none of that.

You're a despicable piece of human shit, Carlos.

> You shift names, thus you are a troll, by definition.

A person has to rob a bank to be called a bank robber, where you'd call them
a bank robber simply because they wear a mask in the bank.

That you think everyone who wears a mask is a bank robber shows how
fantastically stupid you are Carlos. You don't own adult cognitive skills.

Only an utter moron would think the way you think Carlos (or a racist).

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 7:37:10 PM11/23/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:22:19 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> I'll see how it works.

Ken Blake,

Please infest some other newsgroup with your off topic trolls.

You've never added any on-topic value to any thread in your entire life.

Why must you troll this thread fifteen times just to prove that fact?

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 23, 2021, 7:40:50 PM11/23/21

to

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 16:00:20 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> Sorry if I wasn't clear, but what I meant was that nymshifting is
> useless to the troll, despite how often they do it.

A person has to rob a bank to be called a bank robber, where you'd call them
a bank robber simply because they wear a mask in the bank.

That you think everyone who wears a mask is a bank robber shows how

fantastically stupid you are Ken Blake.

You don't own adult cognitive skills.

Only an utter moron would think the way you think Ken (or a racist).

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 25, 2021, 11:19:44 AM11/25/21

to

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:19:45 -0000 (UTC), Andy Burnelli wrote:

> What handful of free open source apps do you use most?

Given the FOSS google app clients are often far better than the original
Google client apps, a tangentially related thread was opened just now.

*Are there any downsides to supplementing the Google Play client with the Aurora Store client?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/zGYFITEjemc>

Personally, I can't think of a single functionality that the original
google play client does that the FOSS google play client doesn't do better.

Can you?

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 26, 2021, 6:05:17 PM11/26/21

to

To add further on-topic technical value to this thread...

Today someone posted a thread where the OP seemed particularly keen on
minimizing cellular data, where the suggestions below using FOSS apps are
useful to anyone who wishes to restrict the amount of cellular (or Wi-Fi)
data any given app uses.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 10:35:14 -0900, Bill Bradshaw wrote:

> I was using a flip Tracfone but I needed to upgrade to 4G. So I purchased a
> Tracfone Samsung A12 and this is my very first smart phone which I mainly
> carry for emergencies. I have some questions.

That 8-core A12 looks decent, at ~$100, Android 10/11, & 4/6 GB RAM, etc.
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a12-10604.php

> What activities use Data?

To be purposefully helpful, and to opine advice which is directly contrary
to what Carlos suggested, I'd say almost nothing "uses data" if you're smart
about it. For example, what I do is turn off data for _all_ apps first, and
then, when any one app "needs" data, I turn it on.

You can easily do that with the FOSS software firewall named "NetGuard".
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.netguard>

It's interesting almost zero apps need to "use data" in my experience.
Certainly each app can easily be restricted to use zero cellular data.

> Also would connecting through an ethernet port save on the Data useage?

There are two kinds of "data", one of which is Wi-Fi and the other cellular.
With NetGuard, you can restrict any or all apps to use only Wi-Fi data.

> This phone is normally powered off. I am noticing in my router log all
> kinds of new ip addresses trying to make contact and I am assuming this is
> really people trying to contact the phone. Is this normal?

I don't think I understand that question.
If the phone is powered off, I can't imagine _anything_ in the router logs.
You may need to clarify by snapshotting your router logs for us, especially
as most routers have a history which can span hours, days, or even months.

> It is kind interesting disabling google play services has lead to issues and
> a beeping notification running across the top of the screen to turn it on.
> Can I stop this?

In my humble experience, I can easily disable _some_ google packages, but
not others. For example, I can disable these without much ramification
"com.google.android.gms.location.history"
"com.google.android.apps.photos"
"com.google.android.videos"
"com.google.android.gm"
"com.google.android.youtube"
"com.google.vending"
etc.

But when I disable this, I get too many warnings to make it feasible
"com.google.android.gms"

> I am going to install AuroraStore on the phone from an APK file using a
> Samsung program called cool-android-assistant which is installed on my
> Laptop. Can most of the android programs be found as an APK file?

I would use the official Aurora Store APK from AuroraOSS itself.
<https://auroraoss.com/>

Bear in mind the Aurora Store is the FOSS google play client replacement.
The Aurora Droid app is the FOSS F-Droid client replacement.

With the Aurora Store alone, you can get any and every APK on Google Play.
The only (minor) caveat being that APKs are deprecated by Google Play for
apps which are new as of August 2021 (but for now, that doesn't matter).

> I am trying to figure out how many people want to access my phone when it is
> turned on. I bought this phone but I really wonder if I own it.

I don't know how exactly to determine for sure who is accessing your phone.
I would suggest you start with the FOSS NetGuard firewall which keeps a log.

We should likely have an entire thread on how to determine, for sure, who is
accessing our phones over time (as the data learned would be interesting).

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 27, 2021, 1:25:48 AM11/27/21

to

Notwithstanding the obvious fact that nobody else on this newsgroup has the
intelligence & knowledge to add value to the technical topic, today
MajorLanGod asked a question which naturally resolves with FOSS apps.

Here's what I wrote to be purposefully helpful for his query today...

On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 03:10:29 GMT, MajorLanGod wrote:

> How do I find out what is taking all the space on my phone's internal
> storage?

A lot of people recommend "Storage Analyzer & Disk Usage" by Anton
Patapovich but personally I don't recommend any apps that have ads.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobile_infographics_tools.mydrive>

While any idiot can find the best app that has ads, it takes intelligence to
find the best FOSS apps that don't stoop to that level of unwanted
intrusiveness.

One of the better FOSS storage analyzers is "DiskUsage" by Ivan Volosyuk
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.diskusage>
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.google.android.diskusage/>

Not far behind in utility is the free ad-free "Diskinfo", by Kuder Apps
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.kuder.diskinfo>

Or try Storage Truth, by Scary Alien if you want to know what space is only
available to your apps for their storage and data storage use.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=sa.storagetruth>

And, if you wish to live dangerously, you can have something like the "SD
Maid" by darken actually do the cleanup of your partitions for you.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.thedarken.sdm>

Each of the free, ad-free, gsf-free, google-free apps above does something
different to help you identify (and perhaps clean) out storage wastage.

> I will probably step up to at least
> Android 10, if not 11. Any opinions on that decision?

I've had them all. IMHO, they're essentially the same.
As you move up from Android 9 you don't lose much, you don't gain much.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 27, 2021, 1:50:03 AM11/27/21

to

Today there was a discussion whose tangential offshoots dived into clock
apps, where the following purposefully helpful suggestions also lend
themselves to the listing of FOSS clock apps to replace the stock app.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 15:16:59 -0000 (UTC), Joe Beanfish wrote:

> There are numerous full screen clocks in the play store. Not sure how
> that translates to apkpure that you can use. I use Night Clock by Ned
> Fox as a nightstand clock.

Thanks for that hint of "Night Clock", which I wanted to test myself.

That ad free gsf free google free "Night Clock" by Ned Fox looks good
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.neddashfox.nightclock>

Searching for similar or better, I found a higher rated "Night Clock" by
Benjamin Laws which seems upon initial inspection to be of similar use.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.program_co.nightclockfree>

There is also the free ad free gsf free "Night Clock" by Black Gray Studio
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackgraybgs.nightclock>

And also this "Night Clock" by sid (seems to be a rather common name it is).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.sid.night_clock>

Then there's the free ad free gsf free "Big Night Clock", by Digital Dreams
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digital_and_dreams.android.night_clock>

(The list of free, ad free, google free, gsf free "night clocks" went on and
on and on and on, so I'll switch to the FOSS apps below which add a bit more
functionality than do the analog/digital standalone night clocks above).

These are the canonical FOSS ad free gsf free google free clock apps that I
use to replace the stock clock app that comes with any new Android phone.

"Simple Alarm Clock", by Yuriy Kulikov
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.better.alarm>

"Simple Clock: Alarm, Stopwatch", by SimpleMobileTools
<https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/Simple-Clock>
<https://f-droid.org/packages/com.simplemobiletools.clock/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplemobiletools.clock>

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 29, 2021, 9:47:16 AM11/29/21

to

In keeping with adding value to the technical topic of this thread...

This is a potentially useful minimalist FOSS dialer, named "koler"
<https://github.com/Chooloo/koler/releases>

It's a swipe-based FOSS dialer by Chooloo.
<https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.chooloo.www.koler>

It doesn't have all the bells & whistles; but it does the job, even when
it's not the default dialer (which makes it useful as a secondary dialer).

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 29, 2021, 8:24:58 PM11/29/21

to

In keeping with the thread topic, which nobody actually understood but me,
if you like to encrypt your photos on your phone, this is a FOSS privacy
based app that does that for you for free, sans ads.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dev.leonlatsch.photok>

Andy Burns

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Nov 30, 2021, 4:47:50 AM11/30/21

to

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> if you like to encrypt your photos on your phone, this is a FOSS privacy
> based app that does that for you for free, sans ads.
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dev.leonlatsch.photok>

If you use android full disk encryption, with a lock screen, do most people need
this?

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 30, 2021, 11:12:31 AM11/30/21

to

Hi Andy,

Thanks for adding value to the topic of this thread, and in particular to
the topic of whether or not Android FOSS file-based encryption is necessary.

That's a great question, which we could also ask of the truecrypt/veracrypt
containers and maybe even keepass2android encrypted password file managers.
<https://www.ghacks.net/2014/04/25/manage-truecrypt-containers-android-device/>
<https://proprivacy.com/password-manager/review/keepass2android>

Basically, the question devolves to personal preference on "file-base"
encryption versus "disk-based" encryption, I believe, does it not?
<https://source.android.com/security/encryption/>

My preferences, always, would be based on the _functional_ differences.

When I googled the status of Android encryption, I found that file based
encryption is already mandatory, so we already have that for some files.
<https://www.tinymdm.net/android-encryption-mdm/>

I'm not an encryption expert by any means, and, in fact, I've not performed
full-disk Android encryption (particularly ever since CentOS screwed me over
with full-disk encryption by corrupting the entire disk about a decade ago).

Given full disk encryption was dangerously flaky then, I've been burned
badly, and now I'm shy of risking the entire disk to crappy software again.

However, that's probably not a reasonable fear given the progress of
encryption, and, in particular, the progress of Android encryption.
<https://www.cloudwards.net/how-to-encrypt-android/>
<https://source.android.com/security/encryption/full-disk>
<https://resources.infosecinstitute.com/topic/understanding-disk-encryption-android-ios/>

Hence may I ask you what the status is in full-disk Android encryption?
a. Is it fast enough yet?
b. Is it stable/reliable enough yet?
c. Is it secure enough yet?

Basically, what I'd like to know (and I'm sure other intelligent people
would also like to know) from someone who actually uses full-disk
encryption, is whether it's "usable" yet.

Is it?

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 30, 2021, 11:55:45 AM11/30/21

to

InVizible Pro is a FOSS app expressly for privacy
https://invizible.net/en/

It adds DNSCrypt, Tor and Purple I2P to your phone.

Andy Burns

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Nov 30, 2021, 12:05:59 PM11/30/21

to

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> Hence may I ask you what the status is in full-disk Android encryption?
> a. Is it fast enough yet?
> b. Is it stable/reliable enough yet?
> c. Is it secure enough yet?

I think I tried it quite early on a nexus7 and that struggled, but it had slow
flash anyway.

My pixel3 (now deemed obsolete by google at 3 years old) has been encrypted
since day one, no problems.

I don't know if the device and/or google [a la apple/fbi] would be robust
against a skilled adversary, but I don't have one of those, and I doubt anyone
here does either, so if someone finding my phone has to remove the flash chips
and extract a key from the secure element to see my photos, I think I'm good.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 30, 2021, 12:31:09 PM11/30/21

to

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 17:05:56 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> I think I tried it quite early on a nexus7 and that struggled, but it had slow
> flash anyway.

Thanks for letting me know, as I've known about full disk encryption ever
since, oh, maybe when nospam claimed that "only Apple had it" or something
like that (where Android has had it for a long time - but it might not have
been usable due to speed issues in software versus hardware encryption).

> My pixel3 (now deemed obsolete by google at 3 years old) has been encrypted
> since day one, no problems.

Ah. That's GREAT to know as we trust your advice. (You can trust my advice
on many things, but on the FOSS apps, I haven't tested them all, so the FOSS
aps I'd recommend are on a short list of only about a half dozen or so).
1. NewPipe <https://github.com/TeamNewPipe/NewPipe>
2. NetGuard <https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases>
3. Aurora Store/Aurora Droid <https://auroraoss.com/>
4. Pedometer <https://github.com/SecUSo/privacy-friendly-pedometer>
5. Ungoogled Chromium <https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-binaries/>
6. App Manager <https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>

I think it was you who may have turned me and sms on to NetGuard, which is
my second favorite FOSS app (after NewPipe). The Aurora Store is my third
favorite app, and the rest are just decent apps that happen to be FOSS apps.

BTW, what I "should" do is write FOSS & KISS software reviews, for hire.
That way I could help a lot more people choose the best apps.

But I want you to know I have not tested all the FOSS apps I listed.
If you want to know if I've tested an app, just ask, and I'll let you know.

For example, I'm currently testing the InviZible Pro FOSS app as we speak.

> I don't know if the device and/or google [a la apple/fbi] would be robust
> against a skilled adversary, but I don't have one of those, and I doubt anyone
> here does either, so if someone finding my phone has to remove the flash chips
> and extract a key from the secure element to see my photos, I think I'm good.

I'm ecstatic that you've said what you said above, which is 100% my feelings
also. If I were Osama bin Laden, then I'd shun all computers (and flash
drives, and couriers, and expensive buildings in Pakistan with tall privacy
patios without Internet access or garbage pickup), etc.

My adversary is not my wife and kids, who have daily access to my phone.
I don't even lock my house at night, nor my car (I leave the keys on the
front seat even when I park it outside the garage), so I'm not worried, like
the Apple Fan Boys seem to be, about someone "snatching" my phone out of my
hands.

I don't keep anything I care about (save for photos of the kids & grandkids)
on the phone and hence I don't even use a PIN for a lockscreen.

I do keep an encrypted container (EDS Lite) but I don't put much in it save
for text files of reminders that may have sensitive medical information in
them), and I do have Keepass2Android for web site login/password details.

But that's about it as my adversary is the general hacker on the Internet.
Basically, my adversary is the robotic hacker, and not the focused hacker.

Given my latest Android phone was free, I still have my previous phone,
which I might think of adding full-disk encrpytion to it just to check it
out. Thanks for letting me know it works well on the Pixel 3.

My older phone is a Moto-G7, on, oh, I think Android 10.

sms

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Nov 30, 2021, 12:51:30 PM11/30/21

to

On 11/30/2021 9:05 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> Hence may I ask you what the status is in full-disk Android encryption?
>> a. Is it fast enough yet?
>> b. Is it stable/reliable enough yet?
>> c. Is it secure enough yet?
>
> I think I tried it quite early on a nexus7 and that struggled, but it
> had slow flash anyway.

<snip>

I remember turning on encryption on my old LG Stylo 3 Plus. It was a
disaster. It worked, but the lag times were way too high. The processor
was far too slow. But that was a low-end phone.

On mid-range to high-end phones the processor is fast enough that you
don't notice any speed hit caused by full encryption, even though there
likely is some speed hit.

Andy Burnelli

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Nov 30, 2021, 2:45:00 PM11/30/21

to

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 09:51:29 -0800, sms wrote:

> On mid-range to high-end phones the processor is fast enough that you
> don't notice any speed hit caused by full encryption, even though there
> likely is some speed hit.

This is good information if it's correct that on decent phones there isn't a
discernible hit from full disk encryption, where the phone I would try it on
would be my old $100 Moto G7 and not my current free Samsung Galaxy A32 5G.

Personally, I don't really see the value in the full disk encryption as we
have to assess how much of an adversary our wives and kids are, and, even if
the phone was lost (it's likely never going to be stolen, realistically),
how much data do we store on a _mobile device_ that we shouldn't store there
(if we're that worried about our data getting into someone else's hands)?

The risk, realistically, at least to me, seems to be the random hacker, who
would most likely be coming in from the Internet somehow, and, of course,
the risk of the data collectors/sellers (who invade our privacy daily).

Hence, the protection that I think matters most is that of the encryption
and proxies in our web browsers and the protection of our ad blockers and
that of our DNS connections to the Internet, and even the protections we
insert into our nav routing & media files, etc.

Some FOSS apps that help with that which I'm testing, for example, are those
FOSS apps which scramble our EXIF data whenever we send an image to others
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jarsilio.android.scrambledeggsif>

Another FOSS app I'm testing for location privacy is Private Location
<https://github.com/wesaphzt/privatelocation>
(but I kind of like my old location spoofer in terms of functionality)

To continue to add on-topic technical value to this thread, yet another FOSS
location tracker I'm testing out is the privacy aware Trail Sense app
<https://github.com/kylecorry31/Trail-Sense>
But again, I kind of like functionality in my old GPS/compass/sun-moon app)

Andy Burnelli

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Dec 12, 2021, 1:51:44 PM12/12/21

to

Because I'm a kind-hearted good person, for this recent thread today
*December Android Update?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/styWUWOxyX0>

Given I already have set one-tap shortcuts to useful hidden settings.
*Opening Android intents & activities, working syntax & beginner examples*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/dj1OYyp6FOI/m/tY0STSUIBgAJ>

I was looking up how all the _others_ could access hidden update settings
*Here's how to Access Hidden Settings on your Phone*
<https://www.xda-developers.com/heres-how-to-access-hidden-settings-on-your-phone/>

If you need to access _hidden_ Android settings (such as update settings),
this FOSS app is recommended in that XDA-Developers' explanation above.
*Activity Launcher* by Adam Szalkowski
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.szalkowski.activitylauncher>

While there are _many_ similar apps found in searches, most have ads or are
otherwise obnoxious, where out of the goodness of my heart, I've listed
below the key activity apps I use (I'm not sure if they're all FOSS though).

(These are helpfully listed in the order I use them based on my use model.)

Icon named "Shortcut Widgets" [aka com.cemique.shortcutwidgets]
*Shortcut Widgets (+ Inspector)* by Hamed Nikbakht
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cemique.shortcutwidgets>

Icon named "Activitie" [aka com.cunnj.activitylauncher]
*Activities* by J. Cunningham
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cunnj.activitylauncher>

Icon named "X Shortcut Creator" [aka com.oldmen.shortcutcreator]
*X Shortcut Creator* by oldmen
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.oldmen.shortcutcreator>

Icon named "Activity Launcher" [aka de.szalkowski.activitylauncher]
*Activity Launcher* by Adam Szalkowski
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.szalkowski.activitylauncher>

Icon named "Shortcut Maker" [aka rk.android.app.shortcutmaker]
*Shortcut Maker* by Rushikesh Kamewar
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=rk.android.app.shortcutmaker>

Icon named "Create Shortcut" [aka com.alextern.shortcuthelper]
*Shortcut Creator* by AlexTernHome
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alextern.shortcuthelper>
ShortcutExecutors [aka com.alextern.shortcutexecutors]
*Shortcut Executors* by AlexTernHome
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alextern.shortcutexecutors>

Icon named "QuickShortcutMaker" [aka com.sika524.android.quickshortcut]
*QuickShortcutMaker* by sika524
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sika524.android.quickshortcut>

Icon named "Instant Intent" [aka com.trianguloy.instantintent]
*Instant Intent [Experiment]* by TrianguloY
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.trianguloy.instantintent>

Icon named "Intents" [aka krow.dev.scheme]
*Intent* by krow
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=krow.dev.scheme>

Icon named "CurrentActivity" [aka com.willme.topactivity]
*Current Activity* by WillLi
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.willme.topactivity>

Each of the apps above does something useful that the others don't do.
--
What matters isn't the wrapping paper but the worth of the gift inside.
Those with a good heart are the ones who continually add value to Usenet.

Andy Burnelli

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Feb 10, 2022, 11:28:46 AM2/10/22

to

Since every post should add to thread value, this post today in another
thread brings up a potentially useful FOSS privacy keyboard found today.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 06:56:31 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> The only leak of information I have detected was years ago, and I traced
>> it back to the google keyboard, not to whatsapp.
>
> what about the leaks you didn't detect?

Both nospam and Carlos and nospam bring up good points
a. Keyboards "can" leak privacy (so they should be chosen wisely)
b. There are plenty of leaks (a new one every day!) we don't even know about

Carlos brings up a good point that keyboards _can_ transmit information to
the mothership (particularly if they use voice to text features).

I don't know if iOS has privacy keyboards, but there are some Android
keyboards that expressly 'claim' they don't hand off your keystrokes.

Searching the Google Play repo with the typical Aurora persistent filters
(i,e., free, ad-free, gsf-free, google free, rated 4+, 100K+ d/l, etc.)
comes up with a some apps befitting those strict requirements, such as...

*OpenBoard*, by dslul "a FOSS keyboard that doesn't spy on you"

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dslul.openboard.inputmethod.latin>

*Hacker's Keyboard*, by Klaus Weidner

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard>

And some privacy based apps come with their own encrypted keyboards
(AFAICR):
*Keepass2Android Password Safe* by Philipp Crocoll (Croco Apps)

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=keepass2android.keepass2android>
<https://philipp.crocoll.net/keepass2android/index.php>
<https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android>
--
I didn't search Apple 'cuz their search engine is as crippled as Google's.

Andy Burnelli

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Feb 27, 2022, 5:21:19 AM2/27/22

to

Tutorial: How to set up single-tap homescreen folder icon toggle shortcut
to any pre-defined commonly used Wi-Fi access point

Every day I test out useful apps where today I tested this FOSS app.
<https://opengait.github.io/>

It's on Amazon and Google Play also:
*Wifi Shortcuts+* by OpenGait.NET, 3.8, 10K+ downloads, free, ad free, etc.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.opengait.wifishortcuts>

It doesn't do anything you can't do a different way, but what it does is
wonderful in that it saves you steps (I try to make all actions 1 step).

It's _also_ especially useful to me for deeper-level privacy reasons.
1. I have _lots_ of access points that I often connect to at home.
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg>
2. I hide my SSID broadcast to prevent upload to Google/Mozilla servers
3. Therefore, I have my phone Wi-Fi set to never try to reconnect
(There are too many details as to why this works for this thread.)

But even if you don't employ privacy measures, if you frequently connect to
more than one access point, you can benefit from an easier connect switch.

Here's how I did it (in tutorial format so that you can follow along):
1. Install and set up the app for one "widget icon" per Access Point
(Note: These are the first widgets I've ever seen that are identical
in function to regular icons that go inside homescreen folders!)
(That's important to me because I maintain a well organized sysystem
with _everything_ in folders, all on only one homescreen page!).
2. For each access point create a "widget icon" and set it up.
3. Then put all those "widget icons" into your network access point folder!
Voila!

a. Customize the icon & name & the colors for each access point widget icon.
b. I set mine to _only_ connect but you can set them to also disconnect.
c. It also can be used to schedule wifi and to toggle wi-fi settings.

For me this is a keeper because it reduces multiple steps to a single step
for when I want to reconnect to one of my many access points, or when my
phone drops an access point as my phone is set to never automatically
reconnect to any known access point (for reasons of privacy).

As always, please test and let me know what you've learned, as Usenet is a
team sport where we all help each other become more powerful on Android.
--
I write these tutorials out of the goodness of my heart to help others.