What is your total cost of ownership of your phone, over five years?

[Harold Newton]

My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?

We should cover:
1. Original cost including tax (which could be almost 10% in some states)
2. Cases (if used - where some all-glass phones literally *require* a case)
3. Batteries (if required, including those required to maintain CPU speeds)
4. Useful items (e.g., courageous non-3.5mm earbuds, SD/SIM cards, etc.)
5. Minus current Ebay/Amazon used resale value (realistic numbers please)

It would interesting to see your total cost of ownership over 5 years.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Samsung S4 was about $400 new. No additional cost to consider so just
divide that by 5. No plans to ever sell it so no reason to factor that
nonsense. It will be dead when finally replace.

The one that have astronomical costs are the ones that replace every
years just to get the new model.

Not sure what the point of your exercise it.

[nospam]

In article <ikN9C.1557$0%2....@fx07.iad>, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net>
wrote:

to troll.

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 15:56:45 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Samsung S4 was about $400 new. No additional cost to consider so just
> divide that by 5. No plans to ever sell it so no reason to factor that
> nonsense. It will be dead when finally replace.
>
> The one that have astronomical costs are the ones that replace every
> years just to get the new model.
>
> Not sure what the point of your exercise it.

Thank you for those numbers where your total cost of hardware ownership is
about $80 per year.

My Samsung Galaxy S3 from 2012 is also still going strong where the only
things I've added are the extra $20 batteries you see below (some of which
are 2,300mAh stock sizes with antenna, while others are 7,000mAh with
antenna, using $1 rubber backs and no additional expensive & huge case is
needed, desired, nor required).
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/01/19/battery1.jpg>

It will be interesting and informative for all to see what we each get by
way of average yearly cost of ownership of the hardware, and how long we
retain our devices to amortize those initial & maintenance hardware costs.

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 15:58:48 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Not sure what the point of your exercise it.
>
> to troll.

Hi nospam,

Why don't you stay on topic please, and just give us your truthful numbers?
(or just don't post to troll saying everyone but you is a troll)

Thanks!

[Clare Snyder]

Well, since someone gave me my current Blackberry Q10, and I also
have 3 Z30 , 1 z10, and 1 q10 as spares that I also got for nothing,
my total cost so far was $5 on ebay for a case, plus the Sim card from
Rogers and my monthly user fees.
My wife's cell phone was also free, and I replaced the battery off
e-bay for $7. I have 2 spares of hers as well - at no cost.

Beat that!!!

[nospam]

In article <p4888j$1g5f$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Harold Newton

<har...@example.com> wrote:

> Why don't you stay on topic please, and just give us your truthful numbers?
> (or just don't post to troll saying everyone but you is a troll)

i didn't say everyone was a troll.

i said *you* are a troll.

[Joe Customer]

On 01/23/2018 03:43 PM, Harold Newton wrote:
> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
> YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?

I had a 21-month-old HTC Desire 612 that I had to trash because it had the WPA2 / krack security hole and HTC couldn't be bothered to create a security patch for it.

Guess what brand my new phone is not.  Guess what brand I'll never buy again.

[Eli the Bearded]

Newsgroups: comp.mobile.ipad,comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair

Not a real friendly cross post, is it? Supports those claims that you
are a troll. I've trimmed it.

In comp.mobile.android, Harold Newton <har...@example.com> wrote:
> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
> YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?

Late 2006 to late 2013: Audiovox CDM-8915. Practically indestructable.
It still worked, but battery life was fairly short, when I stopped using
it. I never purchased any accessories, cases, replacement parts for it
at all. Probably cost $50 new in 2005, but certainly less than $100.
TCOO: $7 to $14 per year (~ $1 per month)

Late 2013 to mid 2016: Samsung Convoy 2 (SCH-U660). I never purchased any
accessories, cases, replacement parts for it at all. Probably cost $200 new
in 2013. Still (mostly) worked when I stopped using it, but I never
liked that phone much.
TCOO: $66 per year ($16 per month)

Mid 2016 to present: Cat S60. I have not yet purchased any accessories,
cases, replacement parts etc for this; EXCEPTING a single 64GB microSD
card I put in it on day one. Phone was $600, I don't recall what the SD
card cost, probably ~$30 since I usually won't purchase thumbdrives / SD
cards more than that much (small things are too easy to lose). I don't
expect to replace this phone or any parts in 2018. If I keep it until
mid 2019: TCOO will be $210 per year.

> We should cover:

> 4. Useful items (e.g., courageous non-3.5mm earbuds, SD/SIM cards, etc.)

"Courageous" is an interesting term. Presumably you include all
bluetooth in that, and the courage is to face down Harold Bluetooth,
the Danish king whose name was borrowed for the tech.

> It would interesting to see your total cost of ownership over 5 years.

My pockets are not a friendly place for electronics. I carried point and
shoot cameras for 15+ years, and would get ~2 years out of them before
they were destroyed. That's why I've gravitated towards rugged phones.
I'll be happy if I get 5 years out of this one, but given battery
lifetimes, I'm not expecting it.

I certainly paid a premium for the ruggedness of this phone, but the
built-in FLIR was very enticing for me, and I don't regret it. The CAT
S60 cost more than my last two laptops put together. (Just barely more.)
I look for ~$300 / year in laptop costs. What I want in a laptop is
small and cheap enough to not worry if it breaks. What I want in a phone
is Don't Break, even if dropped or submerged.

Elijah
------
does not use headphones wired or not

[The Real Bev]

If I keep mine for 2 years (previous phones) it will be ~$40/year. I'll
probably keep it longer unless I discover something that changes my mind
-- like I run out of memory or something goes bad.

I don't think I should subtract the resale value, though; I never get
rid of anything :-(


--
Cheers, Bev
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death."
-- Hunter S. Thompson

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:33:53 -0500, Joe Customer wrote:

>> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
>> YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?
>
> I had a 21-month-old HTC Desire 612 that I had to trash because it
> had the WPA2 / krack security hole and HTC couldn't be bothered to
> create a security patch for it.

Pictures of the phone in your hand, or it didn't happen.

HINT: You complain about this made-up imaginary phone all the time.
Give it a rest. And stay on topic.

> Guess what brand my new phone is not.+AKA-

What's the cost of hardware ownership of that phone you profess to own?

> Guess what brand I'll never buy again.

What's the cost of hardware ownership of that phone you profess to own?

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:22:20 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:

> Well, since someone gave me my current Blackberry Q10, and I also
> have 3 Z30 , 1 z10, and 1 q10 as spares that I also got for nothing,
> my total cost so far was $5 on ebay for a case, plus the Sim card from
> Rogers and my monthly user fees.
> My wife's cell phone was also free, and I replaced the battery off
> e-bay for $7. I have 2 spares of hers as well - at no cost.
>
> Beat that!!!

That's hard to beat, but I have two new iPads I received for free, plus a
relative received a free used iPhone 6 for free ... so, freebies do abound.

I give a lot of gifts out though, so for example, I just received back 4
Android phones because I bought four of those 32GB octacore $130 LG Stylo 3
Plus phones as stocking stuffers for Christmas.

So when I get that iPhone 6 back (she now has an iPhone 7), I'll have five
extra phones, all "free" to me (so to speak) to play with, in addition to
my tried and true circa 2012 Samsung Galaxy S3.

My cases were $1 each but I do have a bunch of batteries:
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/01/19/battery1.jpg>

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:27:11 -0500, nospam wrote:

> i didn't say everyone was a troll.
>
> i said *you* are a troll.

Why don't you just post your numbers.
I can't wait to see your completely fabricated resale value numbers.

I can easily guess *why* you don't - and yet you refute the numbers I
posted.

It's simply because your belief system isn't supported by facts.
In fact, your belief system is *threatened* by facts.

Facts such as true total cost of ownership.

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:56:25 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

> If I keep mine for 2 years (previous phones) it will be ~$40/year. I'll
> probably keep it longer unless I discover something that changes my mind
> -- like I run out of memory or something goes bad.
>
> I don't think I should subtract the resale value, though; I never get
> rid of anything :-(

So far we have from free, to about $40/year, to about $80 per year.
We need to hear more though.

As for resale value, it's not as high as some people claim
(I looked up the numbers already) so for the most part, resale value can be
almost completely ignored as a viable differentiator.

But let's see what the numbers turn out to be...

[Davoud]

Harold Newton:

> > My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
> > YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?

Thanks to sound planning and a little bit of luck I don't have to worry
about such trivia. I also don't keep phones for five years.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Don Wiss]

I haven't owned a cellphone for five years yet!

I have never paid more than $100/year for my Tracfine service. Early on I
did buy two phones for $30 each (Android 4 and then Android 5). Now that I
know about the deals on HSN, I can get a phone free with a year service for
under $100. See:
https://www.hsn.com/shop/samsung-cell-phones/ec0373-1043-2361-8283-10962?sort=&skip=0&take=60&page=1&view=all&akamai-feo=off

I now have an Android 6 with 16 GB. I am waiting for the J3 to come out
with Android 7. I am paid up through next November. I expect a new phone to
be out before then.

Early on I did buy some cases and RF bags. Say $30. Now an adequate case is
included in the HSN deal.

Most people (i.e. the ones that don't steam music or videos) are grossly
overpaying for their cellphone and service.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

[rbowman]

On 01/23/2018 02:06 PM, Harold Newton wrote:
> It will be interesting and informative for all to see what we each get by
> way of average yearly cost of ownership of the hardware, and how long we
> retain our devices to amortize those initial & maintenance hardware costs.

I think my LG flip phone was $20. iirc I put a $7 battery in it
somewhere along the way.

[Your Name]

On 2018-01-24 03:12:56 +0000, Don Wiss said:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018, Harold Newton <har...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
>> YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?
>>
>> We should cover:
>> 1. Original cost including tax (which could be almost 10% in some states)
>> 2. Cases (if used - where some all-glass phones literally *require* a case)
>> 3. Batteries (if required, including those required to maintain CPU speeds)
>> 4. Useful items (e.g., courageous non-3.5mm earbuds, SD/SIM cards, etc.)
>> 5. Minus current Ebay/Amazon used resale value (realistic numbers please)
>>
>> It would interesting to see your total cost of ownership over 5 years.
>
> I haven't owned a cellphone for five years yet!

<snip>

I've never had *any* cellphone, ever, so my "total cost of ownership"
over the past 5 years (or 10 years, or 20 years, ...) is *$0*. :-p

I owned my PowerMac G3 computer for nearly 20 years before it died, so
that had an very low "total cost of ownership", even including the few
hardware upgrades software upgrades it had. Probaby the biggest costs
would have been the electricity and internet plans.

I've also had my car for 20 years. That of course needs on-going money
spent for petrol, tyres, six-monthly road-worthiness tests, servicing,
repairs, etc., but it's still way less than buying a newer car every
four or five years like some people do.

[mike]

How can cost of service NOT be included in "total" cost of ownership?
FreedomPop will give you free service on a $30 refurbished phone.

[dorayme]

In article <mrtf6dh70a4f17cmg...@4ax.com>,

Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:

> Most people (i.e. the ones that don't steam music or videos) are grossly
> overpaying for their cellphone and service.

Not me, a kind person gave me an iPhone, I use a prepaid sim for calls
and text messages only

The sim provider has even kindly turned off mobile data for me so I
could not use it if I tried or if Apple decided or if some app or some
bug decided (yes, it happened that somehow mobile data got turned on
at some stage without me doing it, that is when I contacted the sim
company and was very pleased they could bar cellular data use at their
end).

There are advantages to the iPhone (A 5S), it can be used as a hard to
read iPad when on wifi (most of the time for me), you can send text
messages via iMessage at no cost to your sim prepaid, you can send
pictures and other stuff, like voice messages, it has a mike that you
can dictate text, it has a pretty nice camera for many purposes, you
can download podcasts on wifi and listen when out and about and
navigate between the shows more easily than with say my great tiny
little iPod Shuffle.

The downside it is something many folk hardly need, especially if they
have iPads and Macbooks. Big and heavy compared to some very cheap
little flip phones (with very adequate phone and texting facilities,
and a few other things that were useful) that used to be current.

--
dorayme

[Pseudonym]

On 01/23/2018 08:59 PM, Harold Newton wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:33:53 -0500, Joe Customer wrote:
>
>>> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering what
>>> YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past five years?
>> I had a 21-month-old HTC Desire 612 that I had to trash because it
>> had the WPA2 / krack security hole and HTC couldn't be bothered to
>> create a security patch for it.
> Pictures of the phone in your hand, or it didn't happen.
>
> HINT: You complain about this made-up imaginary phone all the time.
> Give it a rest. And stay on topic.
>

Unless you have been living under a rock for the last 6 months, you'd know there are millions of wifi devices that remain unpatched to this day.
You are free to do what you like with your stuff but I don't want unpatched WPA2 / krack vulnerable devices on my network.

[Clare Snyder]

That's REAL:LY simple. Turn off the WiFi. It's a PHONE for crying
out loud. When you are within range of your "network" use your
computer for stuff that requires network connectivity.

[Clare Snyder]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:13:15 +1100, dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com>
wrote:

Can't beat a Blackberry of any vintage for texting with it's QUERTY
Keyboard.

[Clare Snyder]

Not in Canada (the highest cell-phone cost country in the world)

[nospam]

In article <d55h6dhl6pirlm3rk...@4ax.com>, Clare Snyder

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

> >
> >Unless you have been living under a rock for the last 6 months, you'd know
> >there are millions of wifi devices that remain unpatched to this day.
> >You are free to do what you like with your stuff but I don't want unpatched
> >WPA2 / krack vulnerable devices on my network.
>
> That's REAL:LY simple. Turn off the WiFi. It's a PHONE for crying
> out loud. When you are within range of your "network" use your
> computer for stuff that requires network connectivity.

phones are computers, often a better choice for many tasks than using a
desktop/laptop computer, sometimes the only choice.

plus, some desktop/laptop computers haven't been patched either.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
battery. You could have gotten a new, less durable phone for only $799.

[nospam]

In article <q91aC.80624$3U1....@fx36.iad>, Ed Pawlowski

<e...@snet.net> wrote:

> > I think my LG flip phone was $20. iirc I put a $7 battery in it
> > somewhere along the way.
>
> Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
> battery.

true, particularly when newer and more capable flip phones were offered
for free when renewing a contract.

[Peter]

>
>> On 1/23/2018 3:43 PM, Harold Newton wrote:
>>> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just
>>> wondering what YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is
>>> over the past five years?
>>>
>>> We should cover: 1. Original cost including tax (which could be
>>> almost 10% in some states) 2. Cases (if used - where some
>>> all-glass phones literally *require* a case) 3. Batteries (if
>>> required, including those required to maintain CPU speeds) 4.
>>> Useful items (e.g., courageous non-3.5mm earbuds, SD/SIM cards,
>>> etc.) 5. Minus current Ebay/Amazon used resale value (realistic
>>> numbers please)
>>>
>>> It would interesting to see your total cost of ownership over 5
>>> years.
>>>
>>

Over 5 yrs, my total cost = $50, because I purchased my T-mobile To Go
Nokia 6030 "dumb" phone (for about $30) 8 yrs ago, along with $100 worth
of talk time. That qualified me for Gold status, where all unused
minutes roll over for a full year if I purchase only a minimal number of
refill minutes ($10) within that year. I use the phone for only 15-45
minutes/year, refill 364 days after the previous refill, and still have
a balance of about 1200 minutes of talk time. My wife has the same type
of phone, same plan, and similar balance. We use the phones only for
emergencies and only have them turned on when one of us is out of the
house. Maybe 10 people in the world know our cell phone numbers. We
have texting turned off by T-Mobile, so we never have to pay for spam texts.

[BurfordTJustice]

ZERO!



"Harold Newton" <har...@example.com> wrote in message
news:p486p6$1dmt$4...@gioia.aioe.org...

[Clare Snyder]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 10:36:23 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

They sure as heck are not FREE - you are just paying for them on a
monthly plan. My phone service costs me less when I "bring my own
phone"
Over a 3 year contract you are paying full price for your "free" phone

[Frank]

The one I got was free and I got it before I needed to add time to the
contract. With Tracfone you buy minutes and contract time as you need
them. When you buy more time you will get more minutes and unused
minutes roll over. For someone like me that seldom uses the phone but
wants to carry a cell phone mainly for emergency or just out of the
house and want to call someone, it is perfect and the absolute cheapest
way to go.

[XS11E]

Harold Newton <har...@example.com> wrote:

> My phone is still going strong at 6 years, so I was just wondering
> what YOUR phone hardware total cost of ownership is over the past
> five years?

I do NOT want to know, OK?

--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[nospam]

In article <erkh6d5f5i84gi6ou...@4ax.com>, Clare Snyder

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

> >> > I think my LG flip phone was $20. iirc I put a $7 battery in it
> >> > somewhere along the way.
> >>
> >> Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
> >> battery.
> >
> >true, particularly when newer and more capable flip phones were offered
> >for free when renewing a contract.
>
> They sure as heck are not FREE - you are just paying for them on a
> monthly plan.

which would be paid anyway, so might as well get a new phone.

> My phone service costs me less when I "bring my own
> phone"

now it does. it didn't used to be that way.

[dorayme]

In article <oc5h6dp3qmn0daau6...@4ax.com>,

Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:13:15 +1100, dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>

...

> >The downside it is something many folk hardly need, especially if they
> >have iPads and Macbooks. Big and heavy compared to some very cheap
> >little flip phones (with very adequate phone and texting facilities,
> >and a few other things that were useful) that used to be current.
>
>
> Can't beat a Blackberry of any vintage for texting with it's QUERTY
> Keyboard.

Perhaps not. I liked the simple keyboard on my flip Samsung (a tiny
thing) where up to 4 letters (but mostly 3) operated on each key. You
can get quite quick texting on these things.

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <q91aC.80624$3U1....@fx36.iad>,
Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> On 1/23/2018 11:07 PM, rbowman wrote:

...

> > I think my LG flip phone was $20. iirc I put a $7 battery in it
> > somewhere along the way.
>
> Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
> battery.

Makes perfect sense where the costs are trivial.

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <240120181036230182%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

Yes, of course, it would be you to agree with such nonsense. It makes
perfect sense in some circumstances, like when the sums are very low.
You, naturally, cannot understand stats, you just see them and
generalise without thought for human circumstances.

--
dorayme

[Ed Pawlowski]

Evidently either you did not see the entire post or are humor impaired.

[nospam]

In article
<do_ray_me-BFD9B...@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>, dorayme

<do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:

> > Can't beat a Blackberry of any vintage for texting with it's QUERTY
> > Keyboard.
>
> Perhaps not. I liked the simple keyboard on my flip Samsung (a tiny
> thing) where up to 4 letters (but mostly 3) operated on each key. You
> can get quite quick texting on these things.

nowhere near as quick as with an actual qwerty keyboard, possibly even
faster with custom keyboards, all of which are faster than blackberry.

97 wpm:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxSbkfwHgc>

[The Real Bev]

Kids -- against the rules -- used to be able to send messages in class
without looking at the keyboard.


--
Cheers, Bev
"I love to go down to the schoolyard and watch all the
little children jump up and down and run around yelling and
screaming...They don't know I'm only using blanks." --Emo

[nospam]

In article <p4b0qm$ot$2...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Kids -- against the rules -- used to be able to send messages in class
> without looking at the keyboard.

they still can.

[Willy]

+1

+1

+1

Exactly right, Clair!  You go girl!

Just use that $10/gig cellular data or buy a new phone.  It's just money for crying out loud.  People are so fucking cheap.

[Don Wiss]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Kids -- against the rules -- used to be able to send messages in class
>without looking at the keyboard.

And they read them without looking at the screen?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

[Andy Burns]

Clare Snyder wrote:

> QUERTY Keyboard.

Didn't it feel /wrong/ typing that? :)

[dorayme]

In article <bO6aC.530434$iX.2...@fx39.iad>,

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> On 1/24/2018 4:07 PM, dorayme wrote:
> > In article <q91aC.80624$3U1....@fx36.iad>,
> > Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/23/2018 11:07 PM, rbowman wrote:
> > ...
> >>> I think my LG flip phone was $20. iirc I put a $7 battery in it
> >>> somewhere along the way.
> >>
> >> Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
> >> battery.
> >
> > Makes perfect sense where the costs are trivial.
> >
> Evidently either you did not see the entire post or are humor impaired.

Not necessarily the only options. You left out that maybe I
misunderstood.

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <240120181639448289%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

So what? Neither as as good as a perfect smart voice dictation system.
So what? Not everything is a simple competition ripe for you to be
simplistically on one side.

The point was simply that having fewer but bigger multifunctional keys
on a device that is very small is a good thing and for some people
better than lots of keys (whether hard or screen) on a bigger heavier
device.

--
dorayme

[Clare Snyder]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:17:37 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

Mine has for several years - but it's still pricey.

[Clare Snyder]

I'm a pretty funny lookin' girl.

Clare for Clarence

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yes, I suggested he buy a new phone for $800 instead of the $7 battery.

[rbowman]

How does a flip phone that is capable of originating and receiving voice
and text messages become any more capable?

[rbowman]

On 01/24/2018 12:42 PM, Frank wrote:
> The one I got was free and I got it before I needed to add time to the
> contract. With Tracfone you buy minutes and contract time as you need
> them. When you buy more time you will get more minutes and unused
> minutes roll over. For someone like me that seldom uses the phone but
> wants to carry a cell phone mainly for emergency or just out of the
> house and want to call someone, it is perfect and the absolute cheapest
> way to go.

Yup. Right now I have 1226 minutes since I seldom use the thing. I wish
I could just buy days and not minutes.

[rbowman]

On 01/24/2018 09:39 AM, Peter wrote:
> Maybe 10 people in the world know our cell phone numbers.

Unfortunately one of the people who knows my number is name Heather and
is a lower than whale shit telemarketer. What's worse is the maggots
have started to spoof out of service local numbers that constantly
change. May they all die of STDs.

[Harold Newton]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:43:45 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:

> They sure as heck are not FREE - you are just paying for them on a
> monthly plan. My phone service costs me less when I "bring my own
> phone"
> Over a 3 year contract you are paying full price for your "free" phone

Worse, in California, you are forced to pay the *tax* on the full (usually
inflated) MSRP on that "free" phone.

So you pay roughly $100 tax on a free $1,000 phone, *plus* the carrier's
jackup in service costs, plus the additional *tax* on the jacked-up service
costs, such that the tax alone could be one quarter of the inflated MSRP of
the "free" phone (depending on the math used).

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 21:55:19 -0500, Davoud wrote:

> Thanks to sound planning and a little bit of luck I don't have to worry
> about such trivia. I also don't keep phones for five years.

We're asking about an *average* over five years.

If you only keep a phone for 3 years, then you average it and add two
years.

[Harold Newton]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 04:49:48 -0500, Pseudonym wrote:

> Unless you have been living under a rock for the last
> 6 months, you'd know there are millions of wifi devices
> that remain unpatched to this day.
> You are free to do what you like with your stuff but
> I don't want unpatched WPA2 / krack vulnerable devices
> on my network.

And my grand mother had gray hair.
And lighting bolts usually come up from the ground.
And a tree fell in the forest a while back.
etc.

What does the patch level of the OS have to do with the hardware costs
averaged over time?

[Harold Newton]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 09:18:48 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:

> Can't beat a Blackberry of any vintage for texting with it's QUERTY
> Keyboard.

My Blackberry died an early death because the clit stopped working.
I think I got three? Maybe four? years out of it.

It's what made me leave AT&T for T-Mobile though, as I needed a new phone,
and smart phones were about half (roughly) the sales at that time, and AT&T
wouldn't let me NOT pay for data even though I had a data block on the
line.

I think the clit was the weakest link in the Blackberry hardware, as I did
so very much love the keyboard.

[nospam]

In article
<do_ray_me-6B3A4...@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>, dorayme

<do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>
> The point was simply that having fewer but bigger multifunctional keys
> on a device that is very small is a good thing and for some people
> better than lots of keys (whether hard or screen) on a bigger heavier
> device.

it isn't.

[nospam]

In article <fcsv2l...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman

<bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> >>> I think my LG flip phone was $20. iirc I put a $7 battery in it
> >>> somewhere along the way.
> >>
> >> Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
> >> battery.
> >
> > true, particularly when newer and more capable flip phones were offered
> > for free when renewing a contract.
>
> How does a flip phone that is capable of originating and receiving voice
> and text messages become any more capable?

because flippers (and candybars) do a shitload more than that, and have
for a couple of decades, including a camera, email, calendar, games, a
web browser (for wap-enabled sites), music (usually midi but sometimes
mp3/aac) and could even run third party apps, such as:
<https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-great-j2me-apps-nonsmartphone/>

the phones also became thinner, lighter and had better battery run time.

that's pretty good for a 'free' upgrade.

[nospam]

In article <p4bhli$mnm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Harold Newton

<har...@example.com> wrote:

>
> Worse, in California, you are forced to pay the *tax* on the full (usually
> inflated) MSRP on that "free" phone.

buy it in oregon.

[nospam]

In article <fcsvg8...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman

<bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> > Maybe 10 people in the world know our cell phone numbers.
>
> Unfortunately one of the people who knows my number is name Heather and
> is a lower than whale shit telemarketer.

emily and elizabeth keep calling me. oddly, they both have the same
voice, and probably the same voice as heather too.

> What's worse is the maggots
> have started to spoof out of service local numbers that constantly
> change. May they all die of STDs.

something far more painful would be much better.

[The Real Bev]

On 01/24/2018 05:00 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Kids -- against the rules -- used to be able to send messages in class
>>without looking at the keyboard.
>
> And they read them without looking at the screen?

Probably not, but we can all read faster than we can write. Even faster
than we can touch-type on a real keyboard.


--
Cheers, Bev
Why do men's hearts beat faster, their knees get weak, their throats
become dry and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather
clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[rbowman]

This one has a calendar. I don't use it. I have a real camera plus a
couple of tablets. I take photos extremely infrequently. I don't play
games. I listen to music -- on my Fire tablet. That also has a web
browser superior to anything you will find on a flip phone.

I charge the battery every couple of weeks unless I'm in an area with no
cell reception and forget to turn it off. I might have to charge it more
frequently if I ever used it more than a few times a year.

I don't like phones, never did, and nothing in a 'free' upgrade would
make me like them better.

[Your Name]

On 2018-01-25 02:19:10 +0000, dorayme said:
> In article <240120181639448289%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article
>> <do_ray_me-BFD9B...@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>, dorayme
>> <do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can't beat a Blackberry of any vintage for texting with it's QUERTY
>>>> Keyboard.
>>>
>>> Perhaps not. I liked the simple keyboard on my flip Samsung (a tiny
>>> thing) where up to 4 letters (but mostly 3) operated on each key. You
>>> can get quite quick texting on these things.
>>
>> nowhere near as quick as with an actual qwerty keyboard, possibly even
>> faster with custom keyboards, all of which are faster than blackberry.
>
> So what? Neither as as good as a perfect smart voice dictation system.

Nobody has made one of those yet and they probably will never make one
that is good for *everyone* either. There's simply too many accents,
too many regional quirks, etc. ... even Americans can't spell "colour"
correctly. :-p

> So what? Not everything is a simple competition ripe for you to be
> simplistically on one side.
>
> The point was simply that having fewer but bigger multifunctional keys
> on a device that is very small is a good thing and for some people
> better than lots of keys (whether hard or screen) on a bigger heavier
> device.

Using a normal phone number pad (or similarly a TV remote control) to
enter text is awful, excessively slow and frustrating, and completely
unnecessary these days. That's why most phone makers and models have
moved to a touchscreen interfaces instead. It's also why Blackberry and
a couple of others had qwerty keyboards even on their old phones.

[dorayme]

In article <WtbaC.202110$%a1.1...@fx35.iad>,

Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

> On 1/24/2018 9:09 PM, dorayme wrote:

...

> >>>> Makes no sense to spend 30% of the cost of the phone to replace a
> >>>> battery.
> >>>
> >>> Makes perfect sense where the costs are trivial.
> >>>
> >> Evidently either you did not see the entire post or are humor impaired.
> >
> > Not necessarily the only options. You left out that maybe I
> > misunderstood.
> >
>
> Yes, I suggested he buy a new phone for $800 instead of the $7 battery.

OK, I missed it! That is the first joke I have missed in 786 years
(I'm very old).

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <240120182226095464%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article
> <do_ray_me-6B3A4...@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>, dorayme
> <do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >

> > ... having fewer but bigger multifunctional keys

> > on a device that is very small is a good thing and for some people
> > better than lots of keys (whether hard or screen) on a bigger heavier
> > device.
>
> it isn't.

Of course, you would know what is good for *everyone*. You are such a
dickhead.

--
dorayme

[Harold Newton]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 22:26:11 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Worse, in California, you are forced to pay the *tax* on the full (usually
>> inflated) MSRP on that "free" phone.
>
> buy it in oregon.

I don't blame you for not thinking this one through, so I will gently
remind you that *today*, you can buy the phone, online, for the full price,
from a seller who doesn't have a "substantial presence* in California - and
you can "avoid" the oppressive sales tax.

However .... we weren't talking about buying the phone.
We're talking about the typical carrier "free" phone deals.

If you get the phone "for free" from the carrier, then there is no
practical way to tell the carrier that you live in Oregon, when you don't.

Remember ...
They know where you live.

HINT: California gets people who try this when they *register* a car bought
out of state, for example. If it has fewer than 7,500 miles on it, and you
bought it out of state, it's considered "new" and you have to truck it
*out* of the state. They won't register it. (Of course, you can drive in
circles for 7,500 miles, and then you *can* register it - so there will
always be a way round the law.)

[Kraigw]

+1

The nice thing about my neighbors unpatched devices is that it allows me to once again easily use their internet connections free of charge.

I don't need no stinkin' VPN, LOL.

[Jonesy]

+1

Prison is not harsh enough.  I'd like to see the death penalty for these assholes.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/ataris-michael-davenport-indicted-27m-telemarketing-scam-article-1.3760799

[Frank]

That's why I bought 2 years last time. Not sure how many minutes came
with it but did not care.

[nospam]

In article <p4btm9$16lj$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Harold Newton

<har...@example.com> wrote:


> However .... we weren't talking about buying the phone.

yes you were.

however, now that you moved the goalposts again, sales tax won't be a
problem.

[nospam]

In article <tLhaC.180$1V2...@fx17.iad>, Jonesy <Jon...@internet.isp>
wrote:

> > Unfortunately one of the people who knows my number is name Heather and is
> > a lower than whale shit telemarketer. What's worse is the maggots have
> > started to spoof out of service local numbers that constantly change. May
> > they all die of STDs.
>
> +1
>
> Prison is not harsh enough.  I'd like to see the death penalty for these
> assholes.

much too quick.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On the do not call list?

I just reported a number that called 42 times trying to sell me an
extended warranty on a car I sold two years ago. Most times I don't
answer, other times I let them go theough the whole spiel and tell them
I sold the car, a fe times I told them the owner they are looking for
dies a month ago. After that, one still had the balls to ask if I still
had the car.

[rbowman]

Not in those states that haven't figured out how to do a lethal
injection... Junkies do it every day but professionals can string it out.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27215508

[Harold Newton]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 09:06:28 -0500, nospam wrote:

> yes you were.
>
> however, now that you moved the goalposts again, sales tax won't be a
> problem.

It's funny how you act, don't you think?
It's not what normal adults do.

a. Normal adults either care about their credibility,
b. Or, they don't.

In your case, you don't care about your credibility, except when you do,
and then when you are gently told you made a minor mistake, you respond
with childish insults.

[Harold Newton]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 04:33:08 -0500, Kraigw wrote:

> The nice thing about my neighbors unpatched devices is that it
> allows me to once again easily use their internet connections
> free of charge.
>
> I don't need no stinkin' VPN, LOL.

I suspect this is Snit.
Same off-topic meaningless rant that is complete bullshit.
Hence, it must be Snit.

[nospam]

In article <fcu9ep...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman

<bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> >>> Unfortunately one of the people who knows my number is name Heather and is
> >>> a lower than whale shit telemarketer. What's worse is the maggots have
> >>> started to spoof out of service local numbers that constantly change. May
> >>> they all die of STDs.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> Prison is not harsh enough. I'd like to see the death penalty for these
> >> assholes.
> >
> > much too quick.
>
> Not in those states that haven't figured out how to do a lethal
> injection... Junkies do it every day but professionals can string it out.

it's still too quick.

a better alternative would be something which causes significant
ongoing pain for the remainder of their natural life, possibly 50+
years of pain.

[nospam]

In article <p4crcg$t1v$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Harold Newton

<har...@example.com> wrote:

> a. Normal adults either care about their credibility,
> b. Or, they don't.

you clearly don't.

[Peter]

Do not call list is worthless. Telemarketers mostly evade
identification and even when they are caught, the fines are just a
fraction of what most of them make; they just consider it a cost of
doing business. Ever since we've configured our phones for NOMOROBO, we
hear a single ring ---- and then silence for almost all robocalls. It
didn't reduce the number of telemarketing calls we get, but maybe only 1
in 30 are a live person from a number we haven't blocked yet. (Our
phones allow us to manually block any incoming call with the press of a
button on the handset with a memory for 250 blocked numbers. In
addition, we can go on-line to our phone service provider, view our
calling history and block an unlimited number of numbers.) However,
lately we've noticed that they callers are getting more desperate.
We're getting robocalls as early as 8:30 on Sunday mornings!

[Ken Blake]

You might want to use NoMoRoBo. I like it a lot.

https://www.nomorobo.com/

[Frank]

On 1/24/2018 9:23 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <d55h6dhl6pirlm3rk...@4ax.com>, Clare Snyder

> <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Unless you have been living under a rock for the last 6 months, you'd know
>>> there are millions of wifi devices that remain unpatched to this day.
>>> You are free to do what you like with your stuff but I don't want unpatched
>>> WPA2 / krack vulnerable devices on my network.
>>

>> That's REAL:LY simple. Turn off the WiFi. It's a PHONE for crying
>> out loud. When you are within range of your "network" use your
>> computer for stuff that requires network connectivity.
>
> phones are computers, often a better choice for many tasks than using a
> desktop/laptop computer, sometimes the only choice.
>
> plus, some desktop/laptop computers haven't been patched either.
>

I heard a smart phone defined as a computer with a phone ap. I know
people that say they don't have a computer, don't need one, yet use a
smart phone to access things. These are the denizens of the
Twitterverse where messages are limited to maybe 18 words or less. They
are just lightweight computer users.

[nospam]

In article <p4d48h$g7r$1...@dont-email.me>, Frank < "@frank.net> wrote:

> >>> Unless you have been living under a rock for the last 6 months, you'd know
> >>> there are millions of wifi devices that remain unpatched to this day.
> >>> You are free to do what you like with your stuff but I don't want
> >>> unpatched
> >>> WPA2 / krack vulnerable devices on my network.
> >>
> >> That's REAL:LY simple. Turn off the WiFi. It's a PHONE for crying
> >> out loud. When you are within range of your "network" use your
> >> computer for stuff that requires network connectivity.
> >
> > phones are computers, often a better choice for many tasks than using a
> > desktop/laptop computer, sometimes the only choice.
> >
> > plus, some desktop/laptop computers haven't been patched either.
>
> I heard a smart phone defined as a computer with a phone ap. I know
> people that say they don't have a computer, don't need one, yet use a
> smart phone to access things. These are the denizens of the
> Twitterverse where messages are limited to maybe 18 words or less. They
> are just lightweight computer users.

nonsense. people do all sorts of things on their phones and tablets,
stuff that once required a desktop computer, including creating and
editing photos and videos and quite a bit more.

in other words, someone can shoot a video, edit it and then upload it,
entirely on a device that fits in their pocket.

[Frank]

You somewhat misinterpret me. I'm speaking of those that only use the
smartphone. I would have one too if not retired and home most of the day.

[nospam]

In article <p4d5pu$s5k$1...@dont-email.me>, Frank < "@frank.net> wrote:

> >> I heard a smart phone defined as a computer with a phone ap. I know
> >> people that say they don't have a computer, don't need one, yet use a
> >> smart phone to access things. These are the denizens of the
> >> Twitterverse where messages are limited to maybe 18 words or less. They
> >> are just lightweight computer users.
> >
> > nonsense. people do all sorts of things on their phones and tablets,
> > stuff that once required a desktop computer, including creating and
> > editing photos and videos and quite a bit more.
> >
> > in other words, someone can shoot a video, edit it and then upload it,
> > entirely on a device that fits in their pocket.
> >
> You somewhat misinterpret me. I'm speaking of those that only use the
> smartphone. I would have one too if not retired and home most of the day.

you don't understand what phones and tablets can actually do.

[Frank]

Of course I do. They are not capable of the stuff I have to do on a
computer.

[nospam]

In article <p4d7fo$9ir$1...@dont-email.me>, Frank < "@frank.net> wrote:

> >>>> I heard a smart phone defined as a computer with a phone ap. I know
> >>>> people that say they don't have a computer, don't need one, yet use a
> >>>> smart phone to access things. These are the denizens of the
> >>>> Twitterverse where messages are limited to maybe 18 words or less. They
> >>>> are just lightweight computer users.
> >>>
> >>> nonsense. people do all sorts of things on their phones and tablets,
> >>> stuff that once required a desktop computer, including creating and
> >>> editing photos and videos and quite a bit more.
> >>>
> >>> in other words, someone can shoot a video, edit it and then upload it,
> >>> entirely on a device that fits in their pocket.
> >>>
> >> You somewhat misinterpret me. I'm speaking of those that only use the
> >> smartphone. I would have one too if not retired and home most of the day.
> >
> > you don't understand what phones and tablets can actually do.
> >
>
> Of course I do.

no, you clearly do not

> They are not capable of the stuff I have to do on a
> computer.

maybe so, but that doesn't mean they're 'lightweight computers'.

mobile devices can do a lot of things that are difficult to impossible
on a desktop/laptop.

[Frank]

OK I give up. No sense fighting with a lightweight.

[dorayme]

In article <250120181020278772%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> a better alternative would be something which causes significant
> ongoing pain for the remainder of their natural life, possibly 50+
> years of pain.

Yes, it only takes a little prompt to make your thoroughly rotten
corrupt soul to reveal itself in all its inglory. You are really quite
a piece of work!

--
dorayme

[rbowman]

Oh. A kneecapping...

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 11:27 AM, nospam wrote:
> mobile devices can do a lot of things that are difficult to impossible
> on a desktop/laptop.

Can I run Visual Studio on a smartphone?

[nospam]

In article <fcvhc5...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman

<bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> > mobile devices can do a lot of things that are difficult to impossible
> > on a desktop/laptop.
>
> Can I run Visual Studio on a smartphone?

can you use augmented reality apps on a desktop computer, where there
isn't even a camera?

some tasks can only be done on a desktop, some can only be done on a
mobile device and some can be done on either or both. pick the best
tool for the job.

some mobile devices benchmark as fast or faster than some laptops,
making it a *better* choice.

the number of tasks that require a desktop is shrinking, and shrinking
rapidly. mobile is the future.

those who claim mobile devices are 'lightweight' have no clue what they
can actually do. it's a *lot* more than just email and web surfing.

[Harold Newton]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 20:20:01 -0800, mike wrote:

> How can cost of service NOT be included in "total" cost of ownership?
> FreedomPop will give you free service on a $30 refurbished phone.

Easy answer.

The hardware is (almost) completely divorced from the service costs.

Two completely different things.

One can mix and match hardware with service.

But you can't mix and match hardware with itself.

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 07:39 PM, nospam wrote:
> the number of tasks that require a desktop is shrinking, and shrinking
> rapidly. mobile is the future.
>
> those who claim mobile devices are 'lightweight' have no clue what they
> can actually do. it's a *lot* more than just email and web surfing.

We develop applications for Android phones and tablets and are starting
to target Apple devices using Xamarin as a cross platform tool. Trust
me, we aren't coding on smart phones.

I did try to use an IDE on a 10" tablet once. A virtual keyboard just
doesn't cut it for an input device and by the time you add an external
keyboard you've essentially built a notebook computer.

I would not do email on a mobile device. once you get past the tweet
level of communication, typing with your thumbs is painful. Mobiles are
close to being a read only device with limited input. This is one of the
things you need to keep in mind when designing for them. Content has to
be pared down to take their limitations in account.

[nospam]

In article <fd0uu7...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman

<bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> > the number of tasks that require a desktop is shrinking, and shrinking
> > rapidly. mobile is the future.
> >
> > those who claim mobile devices are 'lightweight' have no clue what they
> > can actually do. it's a *lot* more than just email and web surfing.
>
> We develop applications for Android phones and tablets and are starting
> to target Apple devices using Xamarin as a cross platform tool. Trust
> me, we aren't coding on smart phones.

nobody said you should write apps on smartphones, although that day is
definitely coming, and sooner than you think.

the point is there are tasks where mobile is a much better choice,
sometimes the only choice.

also, apps that use xamarin or other cross platform frameworks are not
as good as native apps on their respective platforms. at a minimum, you
end up with the least common denominator of all platforms, and usually
it's quite obvious that it's not native on any of them.

> I did try to use an IDE on a 10" tablet once. A virtual keyboard just
> doesn't cut it for an input device and by the time you add an external
> keyboard you've essentially built a notebook computer.

you're trying to use an app designed for a laptop/desktop on mobile
device, which is guaranteed to fail.

this is something microsoft learned the hard way.

an ide *designed* for mobile would work well. it would, however, be
very different than simply running a legacy ide on a mobile device.

> I would not do email on a mobile device. once you get past the tweet
> level of communication, typing with your thumbs is painful. Mobiles are
> close to being a read only device with limited input. This is one of the
> things you need to keep in mind when designing for them. Content has to
> be pared down to take their limitations in account.

nonsense. complete nonsense.

people are using mobile devices to *create* all sorts of content, from
writing email to longer documents to taking and editing photos and
video, drawing and painting, composing and playing music and much more.


<https://mashable.com/2017/07/01/michel-gondry-iphone-7-film/>
French director Michel Gondry is well known for his many innovative
approaches to shooting film and music videos, but none may be more
disruptive than his recent decision to shoot a short film using an
iPhone 7. 
...
Gondry, whose previous films include Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless
Mind, The Green Hornet, and a number of groundbreaking music videos
for the likes of Björk, Kanye West, Beck, and the White Stripes,
seems at home attaching the iPhone 7 to various rigs to achieve the
final result. 

and as for typing speed,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNcTE5WJGdw>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxSbkfwHgc>

[Eli the Bearded]

Probably. You'll run into issues like It's Closed Source And There Are
No Existing Binaries For Your Phone. But that could be solved by
building a phone around a different processor. Or by convincing the nice
people who wrote Visual Studio to compile it for for a phone.

I can run *my* IDE on a phone. My IDE consists of vim, makefiles, gcc
and shell programs. I've ported trn, the "threaded news reader" to my
device using that environment. (Mostly as a proof of concept. I'd rather
read news from a regular unix shell, because it has the rest of stuff
already -- mail, smtp config, .newsrc file, post archives, etc.)

"Compile and run my own code" carries a lot of weight as a "Is this a
general purpose computer or not?" test. And my phone lands squarely on
the lightweight (< 6 oz as well as metaphorically) computer side of the
fence.

Elijah
------
posted the necessary trn changes to news.software.readers last year

[Chris]

rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
> I would not do email on a mobile device. once you get past the tweet
> level of communication, typing with your thumbs is painful.

Don't type, use Swype.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 08:34 AM, nospam wrote:
> people are using mobile devices to *create* all sorts of content, from
> writing email to longer documents to taking and editing photos and
> video, drawing and painting, composing and playing music and much more.

They have more patience than I.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 12:13 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> I can run *my* IDE on a phone. My IDE consists of vim, makefiles, gcc
> and shell programs. I've ported trn, the "threaded news reader" to my
> device using that environment. (Mostly as a proof of concept. I'd rather
> read news from a regular unix shell, because it has the rest of stuff
> already -- mail, smtp config, .newsrc file, post archives, etc.)

Actually that is also my preferred IDE. If I can't do it with gVim is
doesn't need doing. There is even a Vim plugin for VisualStudio. While
their editor has gotten better over the decades it still sucks compared
to a 1985 version of Brief. It even sucks compared to emacs.

I have no doubt you can do a lot on a phone but I see it as limping
along with a Leatherman when you have a shop full of real tools.

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> I have no doubt you can do a lot on a phone but I see it as limping
> along with a Leatherman when you have a shop full of real tools.

Not a bad analogy, but also consider do the people carrying a Leatherman
not have better tools, just somewhere else? Most of them will. I know I
do, but the Leatherman and the cellphone are with me almost always, and
the proper computer and real tools don't get carried with me.

Elijah
------
carried a pocket computer starting in the late 1980s

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 08:58 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>> I have no doubt you can do a lot on a phone but I see it as limping
>> along with a Leatherman when you have a shop full of real tools.
>
> Not a bad analogy, but also consider do the people carrying a Leatherman
> not have better tools, just somewhere else? Most of them will. I know I
> do, but the Leatherman and the cellphone are with me almost always, and
> the proper computer and real tools don't get carried with me.

True, and I usually have a 7" tablet with me. When we first started
developing for tablets I bought a couple of 10" tablets for testing and
realized they were inconvenient to carry. I'm not interested in the
phone part so 7" has proven to be a good size. However what I really use
it for is surfing, podcasts, and music.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:20:33 -0700, lowbrowman, yet another endlessly
driveling senile idiot, blabbered again:

>> people are using mobile devices to *create* all sorts of content, from
>> writing email to longer documents to taking and editing photos and
>> video, drawing and painting, composing and playing music and much more.
>
> They have more patience than I.

Awww, come on, you only don't have the time because you are busy driveling
on Usenet and feeding retarded trolls on Usenet!

[nospam]

In article <fd2jmp...@mid.individual.net>, rbowman

<bow...@montana.com> wrote:

>
> True, and I usually have a 7" tablet with me. When we first started
> developing for tablets I bought a couple of 10" tablets for testing and
> realized they were inconvenient to carry. I'm not interested in the
> phone part so 7" has proven to be a good size. However what I really use
> it for is surfing, podcasts, and music.

then you're not using it to its potential.

also keep in mind that many people use a laptop or desktop for surfing,
podcasts and music too.