Re: Whatsapp on the PC, a great idea.

[Frank Slootweg]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
> I thought I was installing Whatsapp on my PC just because that one
> airline insisted on my using it, but it turns out it's a really good
> thing.
>
> I pinned it to the taskbar, and now it shows a badge when I've gotten a
> whatsapp message. And it shows the text of the text message that was
> left. This should be good for everyone but it is especially good for
> me, because I only turn the cellphone on when I leave the house, and not
> always even then. (It probably required the phone to be on at one
> point to transfer the text messages.)
>
> And I presume I'll be able to use the mike and the speakers of the PC to
> make whatsapp calls.
>
> Installation on the PC is not straightforward compared to installing
> other PC programs, but you guys can figure it out.
>
> Thanks again, Frank.

You're welcome.

I fixed your typo 'comp.mobile.andrroid' (double-r), so this response
goes to the correct group. We wouldn't want our Swiss friend to miss
your praise of WhatsApp, would we now!? :-)

[Peter Johnson]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2024 10:01:46 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>

wrote:

>I thought I was installing Whatsapp on my PC just because that one
>airline insisted on my using it, but it turns out it's a really good
>thing.

PC/Android users can use any app on the PC by installing Phone Link on
the PC and activating it on the phone. I find it very useful under the
conditions you described. If I connected a microphone I could answer
and make phone calls via the PC. Doesn't work if you switch the phone
off though.

(Similar capabilities are available on Apple devices but I don't know
anything about them.)

[Patrick]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:53:31 +0000, Peter Johnson wrote:
> PC/Android users can use any app on the PC by installing Phone Link on
> the PC and activating it on the phone. I find it very useful under the
> conditions you described. If I connected a microphone I could answer
> and make phone calls via the PC. Doesn't work if you switch the phone
> off though.

I wonder how Microsoft/Samsung Phone Link differs with KDE Connect?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kde.kdeconnect_tp

KDE Connect provides a set of features to integrate your workflow
across devices:

Transfer files between your devices.
Access files on your phone from your computer, without wires.
Shared clipboard: copy and paste between your devices.
Get notifications for incoming calls and messages on your computer.
Virtual touchpad: Use your phone screen as your computer's touchpad.
Notifications sync: Access your phone notifications from your computer
and reply to messages.
Multimedia remote control: Use your phone as a remote for Linux
media players.
WiFi connection: no USB wire or bluetooth needed.
End-to-end TLS encryption: your information is safe.

Please note you will need to install KDE Connect on your computer for this
app to work, and keep the desktop version up-to-date with the Android
version for the latest features to work. https://kdeconnect.kde.org/
https://kdeconnect.kde.org/download.html
https://download.kde.org/Attic/release-service/23.08.1/windows/kdeconnect-kde-23.08.1-1463-windows-cl-msvc2019-x86_64.exe

Sensitive permissions information:
Accessibility permission: Required to receive input from another device
to control your Android phone, if you use the Remote Input feature.
Background location permission: Required to know to which WiFi network
you are connected to, if you use the Trusted Networks feature.

KDE Connect never sends any information to KDE nor to any third party.
KDE Connect sends data from one device to the other directly using the
local network, never through the internet, and using end to end encryption.

This app is part of an open source project and it exists thanks to all the
people who contributed to it. Visit the website to grab the source code.
https://userbase.kde.org/KDEConnect#Share_and_Receive

Here's a few things KDE Connect can do:

Receive your phone notifications on your desktop computer
and reply to messages
Control music playing on your desktop from your phone
Use your phone as a remote control for your desktop
Run predefined commands on your PC from connected devices.
See the list of example commands for more details.
The plugin silently synchronizes contacts, in vcard format,
from your phone to your desktop.
Check your phone's battery level from the desktop
Ring your phone to help find it
Share files and links between devices
Browse your phone from your desktop
Control the desktop's volume using your phone
Send SMS from your desktop

[kelown]

> PC/Android users can use any app on the PC by installing Phone Link on
> the PC and activating it on the phone.

Can you elaborate on the Android apps integration with Windows Phone
Link? I use it to copy/paste text between my Android phone and Windows
laptop. I use Nox emulator to launch Android apps on my laptop, but it's
a bit clunky to use.

[Carlos E.R.]

But this tool requires the phone to be running, whereas the whatsapp app
(or the equivalent on the web browser) do not.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[david]

Using <news:upjbtq$2n8qo$1...@dont-email.me>, kelown wrote:

>> PC/Android users can use any app on the PC by installing Phone Link on
>> the PC and activating it on the phone.
>
> Can you elaborate on the Android apps integration with Windows Phone
> Link?

I think Phone Link requires you to go through Microsoft Account servers.

> I use it to copy/paste text between my Android phone and Windows
> laptop.

With opensource scrcopy, you can copy & paste using both the Android
clipboard on Android & Windows & Windows clipboard on Windows & Android.
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/control-android-device-from-pc-using-scrcpy
https://www.smartprix.com/bytes/how-to-set-up-scrcpy-for-mirorring-phone-on-windows/
https://www.how2shout.com/how-to/how-to-use-scrcpy-to-control-android-phone-from-pc.html
https://www.xda-developers.com/free-android-mirroring-app-scrcpy-seamless-copy-paste-stay-awake/

You can get the open source clipboard management & mirroring here.
https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy

It focuses on:
lightness: native, displays only the device screen
performance: 30~120fps, depending on the device
quality: 1920×1080 or above
low latency: 35~70ms
low startup time: ~1 second to display the first image
non-intrusiveness: nothing is left installed on the Android device
user benefits: no account, no ads, no internet required
freedom: free and open source software

Its features include:
audio forwarding (Android 11+)
recording
mirroring with Android device screen off
copy-paste in both directions
configurable quality
camera mirroring (Android 12+)
mirroring as a webcam (V4L2) (Linux-only)
physical keyboard/mouse simulation (HID)
OTG mode and more

A lot of people use the scrcopy features when their USB debugging is off
and they accidentally break their touch screen. This controls the phone.
https://www.xda-developers.com/scrcpy-update-keyboard-mouse-passthrough/

> I use Nox emulator to launch Android apps on my laptop, but it's
> a bit clunky to use.

Looking that up is confusing because there's a "Nox player" and a "Nox
emulator" and a whole bunch of web sites claiming to be "it" for each.

"NoxPlayer, the perfect Android emulator to play mobile games on PC"
https://www.bignox.com/

"Get ready to play your favorite android games on your Windows PC and Mac
on one of the most robust android emulators."
https://noxofficial.com/

"Nox App Player has got tons of fantastic features to make your Android
experience easy and smooth on the big screen of your Windows PC/Laptop. In
fact, the user interface of the Nox Emulator is impeccably clean and tidy
with each functionality quick and easy to access. Thereÿs been a long
battle going on in terms of comparison between Bluestacks and Nox Player."
https://noxemulator.org/

"NoxPlayer is a free Android emulator that lets you play Android games and
apps on Windows or Mac."
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6751-nox-app-player.html

"Nox App Player is one of the best Android emulators out there in the
market which lets you turn your PC to an Android interface. You will be
able to install Android games and applications on your PC or Computer using
NOX Emulator."
https://noxemulator.org/download/

Which of those (or others) are the official download to test out?

[kelown]

>>> PC/Android users can use any app on the PC by installing Phone Link on
>>> the PC and activating it on the phone.
>>
>> Can you elaborate on the Android apps integration with Windows Phone
>> Link?
>
> I think Phone Link requires you to go through Microsoft Account servers.
>
>> I use it to copy/paste text between my Android phone and Windows laptop.
>
> With opensource scrcopy, you can copy & paste using both the Android
> clipboard on Android & Windows & Windows clipboard on Windows & Android.

PC Phone Link copy/paste is bi-directional between Android and Windows.
PC Phone Link feels more naturally integrated between the devices than
Scrcopy. But I used Scrcopy for mirroring, not copy/paste.

>> I use Nox emulator to launch Android apps on my laptop, but it's a bit
>> clunky to use.
>
> Looking that up is confusing because there's a "Nox player" and a "Nox
> emulator" and a whole bunch of web sites claiming to be "it" for each.
>
> "NoxPlayer, the perfect Android emulator to play mobile games on PC"
> https://www.bignox.com/
> "Get ready to play your favorite android games on your Windows PC and Mac
> on one of the most robust android emulators."
> https://noxofficial.com/
>
> "Nox App Player has got tons of fantastic features to make your Android
> experience easy and smooth on the big screen of your Windows PC/Laptop. In
> fact, the user interface of the Nox Emulator is impeccably clean and tidy

> with each functionality quick and easy to access. There�s been a long

> battle going on in terms of comparison between Bluestacks and Nox Player."
> https://noxemulator.org/
>
> "NoxPlayer is a free Android emulator that lets you play Android games and
> apps on Windows or Mac."
> https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6751-nox-app-player.html
>
> "Nox App Player is one of the best Android emulators out there in the
> market which lets you turn your PC to an Android interface. You will be
> able to install Android games and applications on your PC or Computer using
> NOX Emulator."
> https://noxemulator.org/download/
>
> Which of those (or others) are the official download to test out?

My Nox.exe shortcut launches NoxPlayer1 7.0.5.8. I'm emulating the
Samsung Galaxy S8+, Android 7.

[Zaidy036]

what is wrong with using Dropbox so files are automatically synced
between devices?

[david]

Using <news:upk169$2qnet$1...@dont-email.me>, kelown wrote:

>> With opensource scrcopy, you can copy & paste using both the Android
>> clipboard on Android & Windows & Windows clipboard on Windows & Android.
>
> PC Phone Link copy/paste is bi-directional between Android and Windows.

Since you use scrcpy (and maybe even sndcpy) to mirror Android screen &
sound onto Windows with full keyboard & mouse use, you already know this.
https://github.com/rom1v/sndcpy & https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy

But the others might not know that scrcopy & sndcopy don't need you to
create a Microsoft Account, while I think that the PC Phone Link does.

> PC Phone Link feels more naturally integrated between the devices than
> Scrcopy. But I used Scrcopy for mirroring, not copy/paste.

I never felt control+C/control+V is unnatural, nor a rightclick copy/paste.
Even snapping screenshots of Android on Windows is intuitive for me to use.

You can even copy and paste images using scrcopy as documented here.
https://scrcpy.org/
"It lets you copy and paste text and images between your computer and your
Android device."

What I didn't like about the 'Phone Link' Windows/Samsung collaboration
(it has changed ownership and names a lot over time) was the requirement to
create the Microsoft Account - which I considered completely unnecessary.

It has been years since I had last tested it and failed it for that reason.
Does the Microsoft/Samsung phone mirroring still require that MS Account?

>>> I use Nox emulator to launch Android apps on my laptop, but it's a bit
>>> clunky to use.
>>
>> Looking that up is confusing because there's a "Nox player" and a "Nox
>> emulator" and a whole bunch of web sites claiming to be "it" for each.

>> Which of those (or others) are the official download to test out?
>
> My Nox.exe shortcut launches NoxPlayer1 7.0.5.8.
> I'm emulating the Samsung Galaxy S8+, Android 7.

Emulation works great for executing Android apps on Windows, where I've
tested all the Android emulators andyroid, arm, bluestacks, genymotion,
google (via Android Studio), ko, memu, microsoft (died long ago) & nox.

They each are so very different that it's surprising how temperamental an
emulator can be when they all do (at the top level) exactly the same task.

I'm sure WhatsApp probably works on most of those Android emulators where
an advantage of screen copy is you can make POTS phone calls using the PC.

Given how mercurial each emulator is, if you've got Nox working, I would
take that as a recommendation that it will run WhatsApp well for the OP.

[Frankie]

That question is non sensical in the context of managing your phone on your
PC over Wi-Fi where it would be inconsistent with what Dropbox does to be
copying and pasting between someone else's machine and your PC & Android.

There are tens of thousands of things wrong with the terrible Dropbox use
model, but the most obvious of which is it doesn't run WhatsApp on the PC.

[Andrew]

david wrote on Fri, 2 Feb 2024 21:20:15 -0700 :

> Since you use scrcpy (and maybe even sndcpy) to mirror Android screen &
> sound onto Windows with full keyboard & mouse use, you already know this.
> https://github.com/rom1v/sndcpy & https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy

With scrcpy & sndcpy you have everything but the microphone to make/receive
POTS/WhatsApp calls over Wi-Fi on the PC with your phone in your pocket.

I just googled for a "miccpy" capability of Android onto Windows because
that's the only missing element to work the entire phone on the PC monitor.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=miccpy+android+windows

This was one of the hits in that search for casting the mic onto Windows.
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic
"Use your Android phone as a microphone to Windows PC"

Here's an image of the PC side of the microphone cast to the Windows PC.
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/blob/main/Assets/p1.png

And here's an image of the Android side of casting the mic over to Windows.
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/blob/main/Assets/p2.png

Here's the Android and Windows installers for casting the mic to the PC.
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/releases
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/releases/download/2.0.0/release.zip
.\Android\microphone.apk (10,707,199 bytes)
.\Windows\setup.exe (559,616 bytes)

I installed the Android APK and the Windows setup, but my old Win10 desktop
PC doesn't have a Wi-Fi card, nor does it have any Bluetooth capability.

(Side note is the Android app can record call audio, which is also useful.)

But if this works, the phone & PC would be one and the same at all times,
since you would be able to make & receive phone calls on the PC with the
phone itself only needing to be on the Wi-Fi LAN within Bluetooth range.

So it has immense value to everyone who does have a Wi-Fi & bluetooth PC.

Can someone with BT & Wi-Fi test how well that Android mic works on a PC?
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/tree/main?tab=readme-ov-file#readme

[Andrew]

In article <news:upkj88$1fs6$1...@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>, Andrew

<and...@spam.net> wrote:

> So it has immense value to everyone who does have a Wi-Fi & bluetooth PC.
>
> Can someone with BT & Wi-Fi test how well that Android mic works on a PC?
> https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/tree/main?tab=readme-ov-file#readme

This capability has extraordinary value to users because the microphone is
the last thing that Android needs to make the phone and PC one and the same
device. Both apps installed in mere seconds after unzipping the zip file.
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/releases/download/2.0.0/release.zip

1. I installed the "setup.exe" on Windows & up popped the Windows GUI.
2. I installed the "microphone.apk" on Android & up popped the Android GUI.
AndroidMic microphone.apk [com.example.androidMic, Version 2.0 (9)]

Now what?
https://i.postimg.cc/52Jq5QwS/androidmic1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RhcJqGb5/androidmic2.jpg

If we can get the microphone working, it would be one of the best things
that ever happened to Android & Windows working together since the entire
phone would instantly be useable on Windows as a real (POTS) phone.

I don't have Wi-Fi nor Bluetooth on my old desktop. But I have USB.
It says it works with any or all of that (based on the GUI anyway).

It only takes a minute to run the two installers to test it out.
Since this is so important, can you try it out quickly and let me know?

Is it just my (admittedly deficient) Windows desktop hardware?
Does it work for yours?

[kelown]

I am not interested in synchronizing files between my Android and PC. I
was discussing the automatic copy/paste of text between my Android and
Windows laptop, and the possibility of running Android apps on my
Windows laptop.

[kelown]

> Since you use scrcpy (and maybe even sndcpy) to mirror Android screen &
> sound onto Windows with full keyboard & mouse use, you already know this.
> https://github.com/rom1v/sndcpy & https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy

I rarely mirror anymore between my Android and PC. And I usually do so
using TeamViewer, not Scrcpy.

> But the others might not know that scrcopy & sndcopy don't need you to
> create a Microsoft Account, while I think that the PC Phone Link does.

I've had my Microsoft Account for years, so it's not an issue.

>> PC Phone Link feels more naturally integrated between the devices than
>> Scrcopy. But I used Scrcopy for mirroring, not copy/paste.

> Does the Microsoft/Samsung phone mirroring still require that MS Account?

I only use TeamViewer for mirroring. And I rarely mirror anyway now. My
original focus was on copy/paste text between Android and PC.

>>>> I use Nox emulator to launch Android apps on my laptop, but it's a
>>>> bit clunky to use.

>> My Nox.exe shortcut launches NoxPlayer1 7.0.5.8. I'm emulating the
>> Samsung Galaxy S8+, Android 7.
>
> Emulation works great for executing Android apps on Windows, where I've
> tested all the Android emulators andyroid, arm, bluestacks, genymotion,
> google (via Android Studio), ko, memu, microsoft (died long ago) & nox.
>

> I'm sure WhatsApp probably works on most of those Android emulators where
> an advantage of screen copy is you can make POTS phone calls using the PC.
>
> Given how mercurial each emulator is, if you've got Nox working, I would
> take that as a recommendation that it will run WhatsApp well for the OP.

I'm not interested in using WhatsApp. I use the emulator mostly for some
non-Windows games, a non-Windows wallet, and for viewing non-Windows
IPTV streaming apps.

[Oscar Mayer]

If all that's needed is for Android to be the microphone for the PC, then
there should be apps on the Google Play Store that do that for the PC.

Maybe this?
https://micstream.io/ "Your Android as a PC standalone microphone"

The Windows installer is here.
https://micstream.io/micstream-setup-x64.exe

The Android installer is here.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.totech.phoneasmic

How it works
Our Windows client creates a virtual microphone on the PC.
Select this mic in other applications (Skype, Zoom, etc.) as your input
device.
Done! The app now streams into this virtual mic.

Features
Superb audio quality - up to 32 Bit and 48 khz
Ultra low-latency - less than 10 milliseconds on flagship devices using USB
No Ads and free to use

Instructions
On your PC:

Download and install the Windows Client using the above link
Start the Client
On your Android phone:
Download the MicStream App
Connect using either USB or Wifi

Micstream - Virtual PC Mic
About this app
Why spend money on a USB microphone? Unlock the full potential of your
Android by turning it into a professional PC mic. Micstream lets you use
your phone or tablet as an audio input device for your Windows PC. Works
with USB and Wifi.

Effortless Setup:

1. Download the Micstream client from micstream.io
2. Select Micstream as your PC input device
3. Launch the app and connect to your PC
4. Start streaming!

Your phone is now a standalone PC microphone - just like one you would buy
in the store!

Key Benefits
* Save Money: No need to purchase expensive standalone microphones
* Ultimate Convenience: Use your smartphone as a professional-grade PC mic
* High-Quality Audio: Capture crisp, clear sound for podcasts,
gaming, video-calls, voiceovers, and more
* Customized Windows Driver: Use it just like a real hardware PC mic
in any application (Zoom, Discord, Games, etc.)

Core Features
* Ad-free experience
* USB and WiFi compatibility
* Automatic PC client discovery
* High-quality, low-latency Opus codec
* Stereo recording on supported devices
* Customized Windows audio driver
* Built with Oboe C++ for maximum performance

[david]

Using <news:upkskk$3228t$1...@dont-email.me>, kelown wrote:

>> Since you use scrcpy (and maybe even sndcpy) to mirror Android screen &
>> sound onto Windows with full keyboard & mouse use, you already know this.
>> https://github.com/rom1v/sndcpy & https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy
>
> I rarely mirror anymore between my Android and PC.
> And I usually do so using TeamViewer, not Scrcpy.

An advantage of TeamViewer and Vysor is they also work across networks.
https://www.vysor.io/download/

What I don't like about Vysor is they charge for higher resolution.
With scrcpy you're stuck on your local network, but with high resolution.

I wonder how TeamViewer compares to Microsoft Remote Desktop mirroring?
https://aka.ms/rdsetup & https://aka.ms/rdclients

They talk about "Azure" but I don't know what that really means. Do you?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.rdc.androidx

>> But the others might not know that scrcopy & sndcopy don't need you to
>> create a Microsoft Account, while I think that the PC Phone Link does.
>
> I've had my Microsoft Account for years, so it's not an issue.

But the account is not needed. Whenever they force an account on you for a
functionality that has no need for that account, something is very fishy.

>>> PC Phone Link feels more naturally integrated between the devices than
>>> Scrcopy. But I used Scrcopy for mirroring, not copy/paste.
>
>> Does the Microsoft/Samsung phone mirroring still require that MS Account?
>
> I only use TeamViewer for mirroring. And I rarely mirror anyway now. My
> original focus was on copy/paste text between Android and PC.

For something that simple as copying & pasting between Android & Windows, I
use scrcpy but they make apps just for copy/paste between Windows & the PC.

Searching, I found this, but I would not use it as it requires an account.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=za.co.canobakedbeans.instacopy
"Copy text from your PC to your Smart device's clipboard, and Paste text
from your device's clipboard to your PC, instantly! (You do need to be
signed in to your Google Account on your device since the application uses
Google Cloud Messaging)"

Running another search for you, this doesn't seem to require any signin.
"Ever wanted to copy paste text from Android to Windows, from Windows to
Android or from Android to Android? ClipSync does it all.
You can download ClipSync Server at http://bdwm.be/cs"

This seems to be the simplest way to sync clipboards across all your
Android devices and Windows on your local LAN without needing a login.
http://bdwm.be/cs
https://clipsync.bdwm.be/
https://clipsync.bdwm.be/setup
https://clipsync.bdwm.be/ClipSyncServer3.msi
Name: ClipSyncServer3.msi
Size: 923136 bytes (901 KiB)
SHA256: 7417F6BB137ABB331EC5176F0152B7729787E92D667E99FF0A26FBF514BCB37A

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.bdwm.clipsync

>>>>> I use Nox emulator to launch Android apps on my laptop, but it's a
>>>>> bit clunky to use.
>
>>> My Nox.exe shortcut launches NoxPlayer1 7.0.5.8. I'm emulating the
>>> Samsung Galaxy S8+, Android 7.
>>

>> Given how mercurial each emulator is, if you've got Nox working, I would
>> take that as a recommendation that it will run WhatsApp well for the OP.
>
> I'm not interested in using WhatsApp. I use the emulator mostly for some
> non-Windows games, a non-Windows wallet, and for viewing non-Windows
> IPTV streaming apps.

OK. But the sidethread is about using WhatsApp as if it's on the PC, where
you brought up emulation - not me. I was responding to what you brought up.

[Wolf Greenblatt]

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 03:20:11 -0500, Oscar Mayer wrote:

> The Windows installer is here.
> https://micstream.io/micstream-setup-x64.exe
>
> The Android installer is here.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.totech.phoneasmic

If all you need to do is run the phone on the Windows PC as a real phone,
why not just use an app dedicated to allowing phone calls from the PC?

Here's just one of those apps which run the phone on the Windows PC.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fonelab.mirror.recorder

FoneLab Mirror is a free wireless screen mirroring app.

It helps you quickly and easily cast any content from your Android
phone to your computer or laptop without delay.

Let you no longer be limited by the screen size and enjoy playing with your
phone directly on a larger screen.

Meanwhile, you can perform screen recording, and control your Android phone
on the computer, and get more unexpected but convenient services.

Are you excited? Download and try it now. Key Features:
Mirror Android to PC via WI-FI: Cast phone screen to computer quickly by
connecting the 2 devices via Wi-Fi. The phone and computer will be
connected to the same WLAN when connected to the same router or hotspot.

Control Android from PC Easily: Use a mouse and keyboard to control your
Android phone from a computer, copy text from your computer's clipboard,
and paste it onto your phone.

Play Android Games on PC: With the game keyboard function, you can set up
key mapping and enjoy the pleasure of playing mobile games on your
computer.

Remote Presentation: After connecting to the PC, you can start presenting
the phone screen. You can type key points or draw the formula on your phone
and share the screen with the computer.

Take Recording and Screenshot: The phone app offers a recording function,
and you also can use the PC to capture the phone screen in real-time.

[Peter Johnson]

Yes, but on the off-chance that someone might want to call us most of
us don't switch our phones off.

[Carlos E.R.]

But specifically the OP does.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Zaidy036]

I do not have Android devices to test but if you use Dropbox as the
working data location than half of your desire is satisfied. That is how
I see current data on my iPad and iPhone even though I usually work on
my Windows desktop for its easier to use keyboard and vision on a larger
display.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 3 Feb 2024 16:00:06 +0100, "Carlos

Yes, and I appreciate the personal attention. And your passing remark
was enlightening: "But this tool requires the phone to be running,

whereas the whatsapp app (or the equivalent on the web browser) do not."

I had not yet thought there might be a webpage that worked, and if I
had, I would have thought the phone had to be on, like with the windows
program, but by golly, it works, and in Firefox*** too
(https://blog.whatsapp.com/whats-app-web pushed Chrome.) I think I
could even saw it loading the new messages I had gotten since last I
looked (nothing important).

(I would have thought the equivalent of the whatsapp app was the
whatsapp program, the separate one, and that it would be more powerful
than the whatsapp webpage, but it's the opposite.)

This is so great! Now I don't have to turn the phone on. And it's
much easier to do housekeeping, like reading old chats and deleting
them. (The mouse and keyboard are easier than on the phone.)

And I can probably make calls using my laptops microphone and camera.
And I've added a microphone to the desktop too. (Already has a camera, I
usually turn both cameras off in Device Manager.) No more having to
hold the phone!

I've already put a "shortcut" on the new-tab page.

I no longer see much use for the separate whatapp program except that it
shows badges when I get a call or message, so I've moved that to the top
line of the taskbar, where I'll see it. My nephew and his wife are
back in Peru now, so one of them may call.


***Firefox currently has one weakness for which Chrome is better. You
can't use a microphone to talk into google translate, but you can with
Chrome on the PC. Not a big problem since usually I'm out and relying
on the phone when I would use it, where it works great by the way. Also
from Spanish. There were several people who IMO slurred their Spanish
words together or dropped the final consonants so I couldn't come close
to understanding them, but Google translate via microphone did. Every
time. Incredible.

In LIvingston, Guatemala, even the men who had to get their water at the
pila (I think they say pila for pileta**, where they have a big pool of
water and cement washboards for doing laundry, plus a 2" pipe with water
coming out. . Only saw this in one town. They carry it home in what
looked like 10gallon plastic cans. Even though I guess they had no
running water, at least 4 of them had smart phones. So just about
everyone was used to google translate. (One older woman ignored the
phone when I put it in front of her, but everyone else used it to get
English for me. OTOH, I only needed it for unusual words.)

**Even though google translate doesn't list pila to mean pool.


At home. I can always start Chrome on rare occasions when I want to use
the microphone to imput words to translate.

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 3 Feb 2024 01:57:31 -0600, kelown

<kel...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>
>
>I am not interested in synchronizing files between my Android and PC. I
>was discussing the automatic copy/paste of text between my Android and
>Windows laptop, and the possibility of running Android apps on my

===============
>Windows laptop.

Someone in this or another group tried to teach me about the difference
between an app and a program, BOTH on a PC. It hasn't sunk in yet. Are
you using app to mean program or are you using it differently from
program?

[Indira]

Zaidy036 wrote:

>>> what is wrong with using Dropbox so files are automatically synced
>>> between devices?
>>
>> I am not interested in synchronizing files between my Android and PC. I
>> was discussing the automatic copy/paste of text between my Android and
>> Windows laptop, and the possibility of running Android apps on my
>> Windows laptop.
>
> I do not have Android devices to test but if you use Dropbox as the
> working data location than half of your desire is satisfied. That is how
> I see current data on my iPad and iPhone even though I usually work on
> my Windows desktop for its easier to use keyboard and vision on a larger
> display.

Since this is a subthread about cloud storage, there is a thread all about
the best non-Dropbox free cloud storage currently on the Android newsgroup.

Some of those free non-big-name encrypted cloud storage solutions are only
10GB to 20GB but others are 1 terabyte for free, and one is unlimited.

Free secure cloud storage NOT from the likes of Google, M$ & Dropbox
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/R79ZrTmIhIY

[Indira]

micky wrote:

> Someone in this or another group tried to teach me about the difference
> between an app and a program, BOTH on a PC. It hasn't sunk in yet. Are
> you using app to mean program or are you using it differently from
> program?

If there is an official definition, I'm unaware of it.

To me, it's the difference between small and large, where apps are
basically small things that phones run & programs are larger for PCs.

[Paul]

They have characteristics, but they are likely coincidental.
In the case of Windows, they could have called them HotDogs, and
it would have made no difference.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/6q7Cz3CC/program-versus-App.gif

And as another example of that, when someone mentions
they have a UWP on their Windows desktop, what does that mean to
anyone ? Well, that's a "HotDog with Relish and Ketchup".

Paul

[kelown]

> OK. But the sidethread is about using WhatsApp as if it's on the PC, where
> you brought up emulation - not me. I was responding to what you brought up.

My original inquiry was to get elaboration on using Windows Phone Link
to run Android apps.

[Ken Blake]

On Sat, 03 Feb 2024 12:19:45 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
wrote:

There are no official definitions that distinguish between them. "App"
is short for "application" and both "application" and "program" are
short for "application program" (as opposed to "utility program").

So there's no real difference between them. However many people use
the two terms differently, in a variety of ways. Probably the most
common way they are used is that an "app" is something used on a smart
phone and a "program" is something used on a PC. But since there's no
consistency in the way "app" is used, I avoid using the term myself,
and advise you to be wary of making any assumption about someone who
uses it means.

[Wolf Greenblatt]

There are two (both easy) ways to "see/run" Android apps on Windows.
1. Emulation (they're actually running on the computer cpu)
2. Mirroring (they're just reacting to the computer monitor & kb & mouse)

Here's just one (of many) wireless screen mirroring tool.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fonelab.mirror.recorder

And here's just one (of many) phone emulator for the pc.
https://developer.android.com/studio/run/emulator

If it requires an account when it doesn't need that account, it's trash.

[Alan]

In my opinion, "app" is just a shorter way of saying "application", and
again in my opinion, the difference between "application" and "program"
is that "program" is a general term for software.

Any piece of software that is written is a "program" of some kind, and
an "application" is a particular kind of program that is created for a
computer user to perform some task.

[The Real Bev]

Probably a good way of determining age/experience; people who have been
around since card-punch days probably talk about programs and look upon
the app-people as children.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Screw the end users. If they want good software,
let them write it themselves." -- Anon.

[kelown]

>>> OK. But the sidethread is about using WhatsApp as if it's on the PC, where
>>> you brought up emulation - not me. I was responding to what you brought up.
>>
>> My original inquiry was to get elaboration on using Windows Phone Link
>> to run Android apps.
>
> There are two (both easy) ways to "see/run" Android apps on Windows.
> 1. Emulation (they're actually running on the computer cpu)
> 2. Mirroring (they're just reacting to the computer monitor & kb & mouse)

Further research has shown me that Windows Phone Link simply mirrors the
apps already on your Android phone. It does not independently run
Android apps as an emulator would. I'm already using NoxPlayer as an
emulator, so I'll continue using Windows Phone Link only for copy/paste
across PC <=> Android devices.

[Wolf Greenblatt]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 13:00:49 -0600, kelown wrote:

> Further research has shown me that Windows Phone Link simply mirrors the
> apps already on your Android phone. It does not independently run
> Android apps as an emulator would. I'm already using NoxPlayer as an
> emulator, so I'll continue using Windows Phone Link only for copy/paste
> across PC <=> Android devices.

If an application that doesn't need an account requires an account
(which PhoneLink does as far as I know) then it's trash in my book.

Luckily there are many apps to mirror & control the phone on the PC.
Here's another I found by searching which doesn't mention an account.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.vysor
It has a Windows server that controls the entire phone from the PC.
https://www.vysor.io/download/

I looked for a free app without ads that shared the clipboard between
Windows & Android and a few came up if clipboard sharing is needed.

Take a look at these apps to see if any do what you like about clipbrds.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ghiasi.roamitapp
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.deedatbilla.clipshare

This one says it syncs the clipbrd with Android, Windows & the iphone too.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.c2design.ClipSyncMulti

[micky]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 4 Feb 2024 11:00:21 -0800, The Real

Well, I felt that way and now that I know there is no difference, I feel
that way again.

someone, somewhere tutored me IIUC that there was an important
difference, and if I find the post again, I'll argue with him.

[kelown]

> I looked for a free app without ads that shared the clipboard between
> Windows & Android and a few came up if clipboard sharing is needed.

Before Windows Phone Link I tested plenty of Android <=> PC copy/paste
solutions and found that they all eventually unsynched unexpectedly and
I had to manually reconnect them, and sometimes had to reinstall them.
Windows Phone Link is the only bi-directional copy/paste solution that
hasn't given me a day of trouble. It automatically re-syncs after
Windows or my Android phone go to sleep.

Needing a MS account to make it all work is no issue since I used a MS
account long before Windows Phone Link was a thing. And you still
haven't proven that a MS account is not needed for all the stuff that
Windows Phone Link does. It certainly does more than just mirroring,
which is the only case you made for it not needing a MS account.

Before Windows Phone Link I used Google Keep for copy/paste syncs. It
was reliable but less convenient to use.

[Frank Slootweg]

On *Windows* - this thread is crossposted to Android and Windows
groups -, there *is* a big difference between regular 'old' style
Windows programs and 'new' style UWP/Metro/Modern/<whatever> apps.

It's not so much on the outside, but internally, how the software is
developed, how it is installed, where it is stored, etc., etc..

In general, Windows apps were and often still are more limited in
functionality than Windows programs. Often, there is no real need for
that, but that's what Microsoft decided in their infinite wisdom, is A
Good Thing (TM).

On the Windows 10/11 Start menu and Settings menu, Microsoft calls
everything 'Apps', but in Control Panel -> Programs, also they still
talk about programs (not apps) and only list the programs on your
system, not the apps.

If you have a third-party Start menu like Classic Start Menu,
Open-Shell Menu, etc., it probably makes the distinction for you. For
example Open-Shell Menu has a menu item for 'Programs' and another one
for 'Apps'. Wonder why *that* is!? :-) Probably they don't know either
what they're talking about, so if you want a candidate to "argue with",
there's your chance! :-)

Bottom line: You don't have to make a distinction and most of the time
saying 'app' is fine - if you don't mind looking a bit silly in a
Windows group, when you're actually referring to a program/non-app -,
but please do not "argue with" people who *do* know the difference.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-02-03 18:15, micky wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 3 Feb 2024 16:00:06 +0100, "Carlos
> E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-02-03 15:15, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 19:30:23 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-02-02 16:53, Peter Johnson wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2024 10:01:46 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>>>>> wrote:

...

>>>> But this tool requires the phone to be running, whereas the whatsapp app
>>>> (or the equivalent on the web browser) do not.
>>>
>>> Yes, but on the off-chance that someone might want to call us most of
>>> us don't switch our phones off.
>>
>> But specifically the OP does.
>
> Yes, and I appreciate the personal attention. And your passing remark
> was enlightening: "But this tool requires the phone to be running,
> whereas the whatsapp app (or the equivalent on the web browser) do not."

Welcome :-)

>
> I had not yet thought there might be a webpage that worked, and if I
> had, I would have thought the phone had to be on, like with the windows
> program, but by golly, it works, and in Firefox*** too
> (https://blog.whatsapp.com/whats-app-web pushed Chrome.) I think I
> could even saw it loading the new messages I had gotten since last I
> looked (nothing important).
>
> (I would have thought the equivalent of the whatsapp app was the
> whatsapp program, the separate one, and that it would be more powerful
> than the whatsapp webpage, but it's the opposite.)
>
> This is so great! Now I don't have to turn the phone on. And it's
> much easier to do housekeeping, like reading old chats and deleting
> them. (The mouse and keyboard are easier than on the phone.)
>
> And I can probably make calls using my laptops microphone and camera.
> And I've added a microphone to the desktop too. (Already has a camera, I
> usually turn both cameras off in Device Manager.) No more having to
> hold the phone!
>
> I've already put a "shortcut" on the new-tab page.
>
> I no longer see much use for the separate whatapp program except that it
> shows badges when I get a call or message, so I've moved that to the top
> line of the taskbar, where I'll see it. My nephew and his wife are
> back in Peru now, so one of them may call.
>
>
> ***Firefox currently has one weakness for which Chrome is better. You
> can't use a microphone to talk into google translate, but you can with
> Chrome on the PC.

This may be Google's fault. They do mention that FF doesn't have all the
features. Google can recode Chrome to better support their own web apps.

> Not a big problem since usually I'm out and relying
> on the phone when I would use it, where it works great by the way. Also
> from Spanish. There were several people who IMO slurred their Spanish
> words together or dropped the final consonants so I couldn't come close
> to understanding them, but Google translate via microphone did. Every
> time. Incredible.
>
> In LIvingston, Guatemala, even the men who had to get their water at the
> pila (I think they say pila for pileta**, where they have a big pool of
> water and cement washboards for doing laundry, plus a 2" pipe with water
> coming out. . Only saw this in one town. They carry it home in what
> looked like 10gallon plastic cans.

Yes, I saw this in Spain when I was a kid in remote villages. Not
plastic, but old earthenware. Heavy. At some time, it wall everywhere
like this.

> Even though I guess they had no
> running water, at least 4 of them had smart phones. So just about
> everyone was used to google translate. (One older woman ignored the
> phone when I put it in front of her, but everyone else used it to get
> English for me. OTOH, I only needed it for unusual words.)

Yeah, that is funny. Modern and old mixed.

>
> **Even though google translate doesn't list pila to mean pool.
>
>
> At home. I can always start Chrome on rare occasions when I want to use
> the microphone to imput words to translate.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Paul]

The only safe definition that I can figure out, is the "anti-particle" definition.

An "App" is anything which is not a Program or a Widget or a <insert-expanding-list-here>.

Windows 11

File 14004
\Users\username\AppData\Local\MICROS~1\WINDOW~1\notepad.exe
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident)
$FILE_NAME (resident)
$DATA (resident)
$REPARSE_POINT (resident)

File 247041
\Users\username-2\AppData\Local\MICROS~1\WINDOW~1\notepad.exe
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident)
$FILE_NAME (resident)
$DATA (resident)
$REPARSE_POINT (resident)

C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps
Notepad.exe 0 bytes <=== ??? Antiparticle.

On Windows 10, that file is not in that place, because
on Windows 10, Notepad.exe is a Program, and not stored in WindowsApps
various cubby holes.

The only reason I could make my joke picture, is I had access to both
a Win10 and a Win11 OS on the same disk drive, and I could reach into
the Win10 storage place and run the Program Version of Notepad.exe .

What we're looking for, is precise distinctive features a user can use.
They don't use the same font rendering or graphics surface.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/6q7Cz3CC/program-versus-App.gif

The Program on the left is using ClearType font rendering (blue feathering).
The App on the right is using grayscale feathering for its fonts (not ClearType).
The third kind of font rendering, can be seen on some older programs
which are runtime compatible with the OS (effectively 7x9 dot matrix or "fixed" fonts).

Apps like the Groove music player, try to distract you with huge
background images (Groove has probably been re-written multiple
times since launch). Programs which open a GUI, they don't try to
distract you.

The only Widget sample I have on my system, is News and Interests,
which is an App without App decorations around the edges.
It cannot be "dismissed" as such. The notifications dialog has some
Widget-like properties. Maybe the Search boxes I don't use, like the
one on the Task Bar I got rid of ? It could be widget-like.

Metro.App on Win 8.0 , did not have the "X" to dismiss them.
Win 8.1 added that back. There is a famous little video snippet,
of a "test user" in a lab, staring at a screen like a deer
in the headlights, when there is no "X" to dismiss the Metro.App
that occupies his entire screen :-) Of course alt-F4 would have
dismissed it, but we only learned that trick later (it's not the
first thing that comes to mind). Thanks to "that guy", today
the App has decorations. Thank you, sir.

What is design intent ? It's what you do when you not
taking hits off your bong.

Paul

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 14:40:45 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

Heavy earthenware, plus the water is heavy.

>
>> Even though I guess they had no
>> running water, at least 4 of them had smart phones. So just about

>> everyone was used to google translate. (Oneolder woman ignored the

>> phone when I put it in front of her, but everyone else used it to get
>> English for me. OTOH, I only needed it for unusual words.)
>
>Yeah, that is funny. Modern and old mixed.

Indeed.

I have my own pictures, but I'm not good at getting them from the phone
to the laptop to a website, so here is streetview. They don't have
every street but they have this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@15.8238108,-88.7497978,3a,26.5y,44.67h,69.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suwWIaWhCK8HPuC_j7xe07g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&entry=ttu
This is street view so you can move it around, move to the left up the
street to see froma different angle.

One can see that there are 6 places to do wash, on this side of the big
pool and there are another 6 on the other side. There are 3 women doing
their wash in the view I post, and to the left of the left-most one is a
"scrub board" that is not being used. It's cement, and the one woman
who was doing her wash when I was there didn't use it. She had a bag of
liquid, soap I guess or detergent, that she squeezed so it made a line
on the clothes and iirc she just rubbed the clothes against itself, and
then rinsed it in the sink (the scrubboard). I'm sure each of the 12
places has its own drain, so the water in the middle stays clean, and
indeed it was clean. When the woman needed water, frequently, she
dipped a plastic dishpan in the pool and brought out water.

In 1971, I had a glimpse of women washing clothes in a river, on the
rocks at the edge, the river that divides El Salvador from Honduras on
the PanAm Highway. I guess I was riding and couldn't go back and look
more or take a picture. The paragraph above is better.

On the left side (move the view to see better, though it's 5 steps down
from the street) were those men I was talking about who were filling
their 10 gallon plastic bottles with water. The water, from a 2"
plastic pipe, seemed to run constantly. The man closest to the pipe
was in charge of noticing when the "bottle" was getting full and
changing to the next bottle, but when his two were full he would take
them away, to his home I'm sure, and another guy sat there. They didn't
mind my taking pictures.

Livingston has no roads that go to it. You have to take a boat. These
days there are 5 or 6 or more boats a day from Rio Dulce and two other
towns. Most of those on my boat were not tourists.

I have a Shell Oil map from 1960. Rio Dulce didn't exist then, nor did
any road go to where it is now.

[Andrew]

Paul wrote on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:06:45 -0500 :

> The only Widget sample I have on my system, is News and Interests,
> which is an App without App decorations around the edges.

Have you ever installed a special appref-ms file on Microsoft Windows?

I once installed "this thing" on my system, but is it a program or app
or something that Microsoft seems to be calling an "appref-ms" instead?
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/tree/main?tab=readme-ov-file#readme
https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/releases/download/2.0.0/release.zip

It created a shortcut whose target is an "*.appref-ms", whatever that is.
C:\path_to\AndroidMic.appref-ms

A search on "*.appref-ms" shows it's something strange to Microsoft.
https://extensionfile.net/open/appref-ms/
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/some-programs-have-been-converted-to-appref-ms/4c8f1628-7208-41c4-be09-d6675ad6d33b

But what is it?
Is it a program? A widget? An app?

Or something new, called an "appref-ms"?

[Paul]

https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/blob/main/Windows/Experimental/Experimental.csproj

<ItemGroup>
<None Include="App.config" />
<None Include="packages.config" />
</ItemGroup>

The latency through the regular audio profile on Bluetooth,
is something like 245 milliseconds. There is a newer audio profile
with a 40 millisecond latency, but this is basically never
going to happen on any "ordinary" Windows computer (the Windows
profile support is never going to have that, not ever). It's possible
a third party BT stack could have it.

Microsoft likes to keep redefining how application manifests are
stored. Maybe the file you reference, has something to do with that.

Paul

[Andrew]

Paul wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 00:20:33 -0500 :

> https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic/blob/main/Windows/Experimental/Experimental.csproj
>
> <ItemGroup>
> <None Include="App.config" />
> <None Include="packages.config" />
> </ItemGroup>

I wish I understood what you wrote, but I simply do not.
I just wanted to know what this brand new Microsoft "appref-ms" file stuff is.

When I installed AndroidMic, the application went somewhere
but I still don't know where it installed itself because the
shortcut isn't like any shortcut I've ever seen before.

This is what the shortcut three tabs look like.
https://i.postimg.cc/vThHc47t/appref-ms.jpg

First of all the shortcut has no TARGET.
It has a General, Security & Details tab.

The shortcut simply has a "Location" in the "General" tab.
C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar

The shortcut has an "Object name" in the "Security" tab.
C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar\AndroidMic.appref-ms

The shortcut has that "Location" again in the "Details" tab.
C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch\User Pinned\TaskBar

> The latency through the regular audio profile on Bluetooth,
> is something like 245 milliseconds.

For this question, what the application does, doesn't matter.
The question is what the heck is an "appref-ms" file anyway?

[she...@outlook.com]

What is an APPREF-MS file?
Application reference file used by ClickOnce, a Microsoft platform used to
deploy and run remote Web applications; contains a local or remote link to
an application; commonly used to enable links from the Windows Start Menu.

More Information
APPREF-MS file and their corresponding .APPLICATION files are enabled by the
Microsoft .NET framework. When an APPREF-MS file is activated from a Web
hyperlink, ClickOnce can check for updates, make installations, and run a
program.

[Andrew]

Yes. Thanks. I saw that from the original post links I had provided.
https://extensionfile.net/open/appref-ms/

But that isn't in a human-readable form, at least not to me it isn't.

It's kind of like a pure technical dictionary meaning.
Versus using the word in context of installation of another app.

For example, I had never heard of "ClickOnce" until I wrote this thread.
Does anyone here have experience with ClickOnce with any other app?

If someone has experience with other appref-ms/clickonce installations,
your experience will be helpful for me (& others) to better understand it.

What experience have others had with appref-ms/clickonce installations?

[Paul]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms

It's apparently a ClickOnce App.

[Picture] ... of the stackoverflow page

https://i.postimg.cc/dV5Ld83L/click-once-appref.gif

Apps need the ability to update.

sideload (winget)
App Store (microsoftstore)
ClickOnce (essentially a private store, for your updates)

The appref-ms gives the ability to store a URL or similar,
and when the application starts, it checks for updates.

Otherwise, the App part works the usual ways, using its manifest
for loading, using certain (permission denied) areas for
component storage. This is what makes study of the construction,
searching for the gubbins, hard to do.

You can always use nfi.exe to list the component parts.
That's how I'd do it, if I needed "component part" info.

Paul

[Andrew]

Paul wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 12:49:33 -0500 :

> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10766334/how-to-find-the-target-exe-file-of-appref-ms

Yes. Thanks. I had already read that before I posted the question.
You can see that link in the original post.

I read every link found before I asked the question here.
If I had found the answer on the Internet, I wouldn't have asked here.

In particular, that link doesn't answer the question of what the thing is.
It answers the question of how to find the executable which I did try.

> It's apparently a ClickOnce App.

What does that mean when EVERY app is a click once app.
How's that different from a double click once app?

> [Picture] ... of the stackoverflow page
> https://i.postimg.cc/dV5Ld83L/click-once-appref.gif

Yes. I saw that BEFORE I posted. It answers a different question.
It's not asking what it is but where it went.

I did look at where it went though, which is here.
C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG\andr..tion_0000000000000000_0002.0000_0bbee2d2e624354e\AndroidMic.exe
(and yes, those doubledots are really there, as can be seen here)
https://i.postimg.cc/ZRn4VZdT/clickonce.jpg

Apparently this strange appref-ms thing installed into an AppData folder.
https://i.postimg.cc/Qxt11WtP/appdata.jpg

Where if you dig down deep enough you finally find the executable.
https://i.postimg.cc/rsdyFcVh/androidmic.jpg

Doesn't this "appref-ms" thing from Microsoft seem strange to you?

> Apps need the ability to update.

All apps have the ability to update, whether they're click once or click
twice apps. So that doesn't tell us anything.

> sideload (winget)
> App Store (microsoftstore)
> ClickOnce (essentially a private store, for your updates)
>
> The appref-ms gives the ability to store a URL or similar,
> and when the application starts, it checks for updates.

All apps can do that.
Whether or not they're these strange new Microsoft appref-ms things.

> Otherwise, the App part works the usual ways, using its manifest
> for loading, using certain (permission denied) areas for
> component storage. This is what makes study of the construction,
> searching for the gubbins, hard to do.
>
> You can always use nfi.exe to list the component parts.
> That's how I'd do it, if I needed "component part" info.

I don't have nfi.exe on my system as it's not native to Windows.
But I googled for it and see that it's described over here.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/resources/archive/v02n05

"Microsoft has released a free tool named NFI (NTFS Information) that
understands and can dump the internal structures of NTFS volumes.
You can download NFI as part of the OEM Support Tools at
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q253/0/66.asp. Running NFI
with a file name dumps the NTFS MFT record for that file."

From that I can tell it's not going to explain to me in human
understandable terms what these very strange new "appref-ms" files are.

What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder
C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG

And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.

[Andy Burns]

Andrew wrote:

> Doesn't this "appref-ms" thing from Microsoft seem strange to you?.

I'm tempted to file it under "Modern apps" and accept the don't really
want humans to understand how it all hangs together any longer.

> What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder
> C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG
>
> And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
> out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.

I have "C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\CX4NKDB8.9YL\2D70C5C9.D2W"
but it's empty, apart from a manifests folder.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 2 Feb 2024 19:30:23 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2024-02-02 16:53, Peter Johnson wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2024 10:01:46 -0500, micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com>
>> wrote:
>>

>>> I thought I was installing Whatsapp on my PC just because that one
>>> airline insisted on my using it, but it turns out it's a really good
>>> thing.
>>
>> PC/Android users can use any app on the PC by installing Phone Link on
>> the PC and activating it on the phone. I find it very useful under the
>> conditions you described. If I connected a microphone I could answer
>> and make phone calls via the PC. Doesn't work if you switch the phone
>> off though.
>>
>> (Similar capabilities are available on Apple devices but I don't know
>> anything about them.)

>
>But this tool requires the phone to be running, whereas the whatsapp app
>(or the equivalent on the web browser) do not.

I misunderstood before, and repeated my misunderstanding in another post
in this thread. You wrote idiomatically (a weakness in the current
English vernacular) but you still mean: *and* the equivalent on the web
browser. And by golly you're right. I just sent texts with both
methods. This means I don't have to turn on my phone to to send, and I
think receive, texts, and it seems audio and video calls (though I have
not done either of those yet.) This is great.

[Andrew]

Andy Burns wrote on Thu, 8 Feb 2024 19:09:46 +0000 :

>> What would be nice is if someone can look in their similar folder
>> C:\Users\user\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\N0AR711Q.1VA\PRHK4WQY.TYG
>>
>> And let me know what other apps they have installed which turned
>> out to be one of these brand new but very strange "appref-ms" things.
>
> I have "C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\CX4NKDB8.9YL\2D70C5C9.D2W"
> but it's empty, apart from a manifests folder.

That's good to know. Thanks for checking. I am surprised you have it too.

However, with only two datapoints it's hard to surmise much, but I'm going
to guess that anyone with a similar folder has run across one of these new
fangled appref-ms "modern apps" that they don't want us to know about.
"C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\."

If only we knew what these new fangled "appref-ms" modern apps are...

[Paul]

This is the only file on the test VM of that type, after installing AndroidMic there.

File 7089
\Users\Bullwinkle\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Teamclouday\AndroidMic.appref-ms
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident) \
$FILE_NAME (resident) \
$FILE_NAME (resident) \____ Resident means, fits it lives in a 1024 byte $MFT slot, max 700 bytes or thereabouts
$DATA (resident) /

Had to get at it from WSL. In Windows, the extension will not display. Attempting to
edit the entry, just defaces the filename portion of filename.ext . However, from
WSL, I am "allowed" to display the real name. Now, we just cat it.

/mnt/d$ file AndroidMic.appref-ms
AndroidMic.appref-ms: Little-endian UTF-16 Unicode text, with no line terminators

This is the content.

file:///C:/Users/Bullwinkle/Downloads/release--androidmic/release/Windows/AndroidMic.application
#AndroidMic.application, Culture=en, PublicKeyToken=0000000000000000, processorArchitecture=msil

That points to a file in the unpacked installer directory I used. I'm guessing
it's a good idea to keep that folder around ?

AndroidMic.application 1,926 bytes

/mntd$ file AndroidMic.application
AndroidMic.application: XML 1.0 document, UTF-8 Unicode (with BOM) text, with very long lines, with CRLF line terminators

ClickOnce Application Support Library [ what opens a .application ]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<asmv1:assembly xsi:schemaLocation="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1 assembly.adaptive.xsd"
manifestVersion="1.0" xmlns:asmv1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1"
xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v2" xmlns:asmv2="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v2"
xmlns:xrml="urn:mpeg:mpeg21:2003:01-REL-R-NS" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xmlns:asmv3="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v3" xmlns:dsig="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#"
xmlns:co.v1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:clickonce.v1" xmlns:co.v2="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:clickonce.v2">
<assemblyIdentity name="AndroidMic.application" version="2.0.0.0" publicKeyToken="0000000000000000"
language="en" processorArchitecture="msil" xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" />
<description asmv2:publisher="Teamclouday" asmv2:product="AndroidMic"
asmv2:supportUrl="https://github.com/teamclouday/AndroidMic" xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" />
<deployment install="true" mapFileExtensions="true" />
<compatibleFrameworks xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:clickonce.v2">
<framework targetVersion="4.7.2" profile="Full" supportedRuntime="4.0.30319" />
</compatibleFrameworks>
<dependency>
<dependentAssembly dependencyType="install"
codebase="Application Files\AndroidMic_2_0_0_0\AndroidMic.exe.manifest" size="18338">
<assemblyIdentity name="AndroidMic.exe" version="2.0.0.0" publicKeyToken="0000000000000000"
language="en" processorArchitecture="msil" type="win32" />
<hash>
<dsig:Transforms>
<dsig:Transform Algorithm="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:HashTransforms.Identity" />
</dsig:Transforms>
<dsig:DigestMethod Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#sha256" />
<dsig:DigestValue>mdsUreDH9SUF2xFb6Ig86FKgRB5EKoH9N6udG3uWHrk=</dsig:DigestValue>
</hash>
</dependentAssembly>
</dependency>
</asmv1:assembly>

[Picture] Runtime behavior...

https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Paul

[Andy Burns]

Paul wrote:

> https://i.postimg.cc/fknYTv9g/androidmic-startup.gif

Ah, that's the second stretched image you've posted recently, the first
time was the screenshot of disk manager you managed to extract as a
binary attachment for someone, so I assumed it was an artefact of having
to piece the image back together, and didn't mention it.

But this one is a screenshot from your own system, it works ok if I
click to zoom the image, but postimage is badly mangling the non-zoomed
version ...

[Paul]

Correct.

In all cases, you must use your "craft" to get something
from the exercise.

Unfortunately.

The other sites I might use, also present challenges,
so it's not like any site is "righteous".

"Download original image" is available as an option,
no matter how they degrade the default image.

Paul

[Char Jackson]

If things get bad enough with the image hosting sites, we might have to go back
to how we did it for 30 years - by posting the image to Usenet, typically to a
garbage group such as alt.binaries.test, and including the MID in the text post.
I assume most, if not all, NNTP clients know how to open a MID. The downside is
that you lose the advertising that comes with the web-based sites.

[Paul]

Yes, on E-S there is a group for that purpose.

However, depending on the size of the picture (I can do 10000 x 10000 on PostImage),
the attachment may be too big for a USENET post on some of the servers.

And yes, obviously I could go "full rogue" and use a binary chopper and
send it that way, and then a certain filter would open up with a
fifty caliber and none of my posts would go anywhere :-)

I would consider leaving posti... if the domain disappeared :-)

Paul

[Char Jackson]

I've never used E-S. It sounds awful. :-)
Just kidding, I'm sure it's fine in its own way.