On 8/2/21 3:11 PM, John Goerzen wrote:
> Wow. That is a detail I had totally missed. I guess it does make
> sense given what I remember of the UUCP queue format; the destination
> node was encoded only in the directory name (at least in Taylor), IIRC.
I think it's more accurate to think of the directories as the next hop
(to borrow a descriptive phrase from more contemporary networking). As
in the local host would put messages in the queue for host1 when sending
a message via host1; host1!host2!host3!user. When host1 received the
UUCP file(s) from host0, it would put them in the outgoing queue for
host2. When host2 received the UUCP file(s) from host1, it would put
them in the outgoing queue for host3. When host3 received the UUCP
file(s) from host2, it would then interface with rmail.
Aside: I fear that my examples may be not syntactically correct. I
hope that you can over look that and understand the underlying meaning
that I'm trying to convey.
> That much I can deduce by reading the source code to rmail (which,
> though not terribly long, is terribly old C and not the easiest read).
> What I haven't figured out is what the mechanism for adding those
> extra From_ headers was. Was it delivermail (sendmail predecessor)
> doing it? Or surely something in the Sendmail configuration may
> have been? I grabbed the earliest sendmail I could easily find
> (from 2000) but it didn't have easy answers to this question either.
I don't know. I've done more with file transfer and remote commands
than I have with email via UUCP.
My experience with email via UUCP and Sendmail is that Sendmail does as
little as it can realistically get away with and then hands the message
off to the system's UUCP subsystem rather than getting deeper into the
minutia of UUCP itself.
> Oh yes, I've got a couple UUCP nodes running Debian on Docker.
> I used UUCP "back in the day", but not far enough back in the day
> for this. In the 90s, I lived in a rural area and used UUCP on
> FreeBSD and then Debian as a way to get email. Later I worked for
> the ISP that had provided me the UUCP feed, and was (by then) the guy
> designated to administer our by then barely-used UUCP service, which
> ran on BSD/i. As far as I can recall, all of these were Taylor UUCP.
> They were all used for email and Usenet, but solely for leaf sites
> hanging off the Internet, so domain addressing was used everywhere,
> file copying wasn't used at all, and uux was used only as a means
> to invoke rmail and rnews. So it was a pretty limited view of UUCP,
> and I didn't really understand the breadth of what had been UUCPNET
> until a number of years later when things like Usenet archives and
> search engines became more widely available.
My ah ha moment with UUCP was when I first built my UUCP network between
multiple sites which needed bastions at each side. It was really my
home and office, both of which had UUCP on the edge with systems behind
them. So office-workstation talked to office-router which talked to
home-router which talked to home-workstation. Configuring that was an
eye opening experience. I've since maintained some of that type of
functionality. Though I rarely use it.
I even had it configured on a macOS X 10.<something fairly new> before
macOS 11 Big Sur. -- Apple's updates have since stomped on the config.
It was a pita to tilt at the Apple macOS X windmill to configure.
Something I'm not eager to do if I'm not actually /using/ it.
The process was something like the following:
1) Reboot into maintenance mode.
2) Disable system protection. (I've forgotten what it's called.)
3) Reboot into normal mode and make all desired UUCP config changes.
4) Reboot into maintenance mode.
5) Re-enable system protection.
6) Reboot into normal mode and use UUCP.
> So while I'm familiar with UUCP itself, UUCPNET (as more than a
> node that dials into exactly one place (an ISP) because of lack of
> dedicated link) was just before my time.
I've had a full functional network of 2-4 hosts behind bastions before.
Multiple office computers on one side and multiple home computers on the
other side. So I got to play with UUCP routing.
> I did participate in other store-and-forward networks in the 90s,
> from the BBS world: primarily FidoNet and VirtualNet.
I suspect that even the venerable UUNET et al. mostly did point to point
connections and didn't do much with actual routing. In such as two
adjacent nodes exchanged mail and / or news directly between each other
and expected the higher layer application to do any routing. E.g. the
news server would receive articles from a direct peer, and the news
server itself would send them to other direct attached peers.
Even email, which would need the bang path would still likely do things
between adjacently connected mail servers rather than sending down to
UUCP to send through multiple hops to the far end before coming back up
to the receiving mail server. See the "uux 'host1!rmail
host2!host3!user'" vs "uux 'host1!host2!rmail host3!user'" comment in my
other reply.