"Unexpected tagged response" can't receive mails

[Nikki]

Hi out there

Thanks to the great help I got a couple of months ago, I can now
happily send emails from alpine wherever it is, on a Mac, a PC or
laptop running Debian, even on my Pinephone running Mobian. All good.

Well, not ALL, exactly, because now I'd like to be able to RECEIVE some
mail too.

I'm getting closer, and this time round have got stuck with a message I
don't understand, nor has a Duck-Duck search helped. Alpine seems to be
launching well, asks for the password, seems happy with it, but then I
get:

"Unexpected tagged response"

or more fully:

{mail.tpg.com.au:110/notls/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX : unexpected
tagged response

And no mails received. Alpine goes back to "Opening INBOX", coplete wth
dancing ASCII until it asks me if I want to give up:

"No reply in 239 seconds from server mail.tpg.com.au. Break connection?"

BTW. All these machines will successfully send-and-receive with
Thunderbird, but not alpine. Problem: I'd rather have alpine.

Any suggestions? I'll readily provide whatever is asked for.

Thanks

Nikki

PS. among the (many) matters I'm far from certain about is the tls,
notls, starttls thing. I tried ssl and alpine suggested notls. Duh.

[Eduardo Chappa]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021, Nikki wrote:

> Hi out there
>
> Thanks to the great help I got a couple of months ago, I can now
> happily send emails from alpine wherever it is, on a Mac, a PC or
> laptop running Debian, even on my Pinephone running Mobian. All good.
>
> Well, not ALL, exactly, because now I'd like to be able to RECEIVE some
> mail too.
>
> I'm getting closer, and this time round have got stuck with a message I
> don't understand, nor has a Duck-Duck search helped. Alpine seems to be
> launching well, asks for the password, seems happy with it, but then I
> get:
>
> "Unexpected tagged response"
>
> or more fully:
>
> {mail.tpg.com.au:110/notls/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX : unexpected
> tagged response

port 110 is an insecure port for POP. Although Alpine will connect you to
that port, Alpine is not a good pop client. I would recommend that you
change the previous definition from

{mail.tpg.com.au:110/notls/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX

to

{mail.tpg.com.au/ssl/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX

the definition you have will leak your username and password. I will not
help you fix it so your credentials be stolen. The fix I am giving you
will work better for you.

I hope this helps.

--
Eduardo
https://tinyurl.com/yc377wlh (web)
http://repo.or.cz/alpine.git (Git)

[Adam H. Kerman]

I am in no way disputing your sound advice, that sending credentials in
the clear over an insecure connection is undesireable and that the OP
should instead use a secure connection.

But what does the error message mean? What was tagged unexpectedly?

I will pitch the use of IMAP as a preferred alternative to POP wherever
it's available. pine/alpine implements IMAP perfectly as the two grew up
together.

[Eduardo Chappa]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> I am in no way disputing your sound advice, that sending credentials in
> the clear over an insecure connection is undesireable and that the OP
> should instead use a secure connection.
>
> But what does the error message mean? What was tagged unexpectedly?
>
> I will pitch the use of IMAP as a preferred alternative to POP wherever
> it's available. pine/alpine implements IMAP perfectly as the two grew up
> together.

Dear Adam,

the configuration sent by the OP is for an insecure connection to an IMAP
server, however, the server in port 110 is a pop server.

Since Alpine was trying to connect to an IMAP server, it read the reply
from the server upon connection, and it found something like

+OK POP3 Ready rpt-glb-mail01 00020e05

which was an untagged response (there was no tag sent by Alpine, so this
was supposed to be an untagged reply) and the reply from the server does
not match format of an untagged response (they begin with the "*"
character), so that reply is an unexpected untagged response.

Upon such response from the server, Alpine will close the connection. It
does that to protect you. Who knows what a server might send later if
Alpine does not leave.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Eduardo Chappa <cha...@washington.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2021, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>I am in no way disputing your sound advice, that sending credentials in
>>the clear over an insecure connection is undesireable and that the OP
>>should instead use a secure connection.

>>But what does the error message mean? What was tagged unexpectedly?

>>I will pitch the use of IMAP as a preferred alternative to POP wherever
>>it's available. pine/alpine implements IMAP perfectly as the two grew up
>>together.

>the configuration sent by the OP is for an insecure connection to an IMAP

>server, however, the server in port 110 is a pop server. . . .

Ah. That's the bit I missed. Thanks for the interesting explanation.

[Nikki]

In article <a415d99a-3531-672...@washington.edu>,

Thanks Eduardo, for the advice and also the caveats. Rest assured I
used a fresh (and hence empty installation) on a computer I don't
generally use, a nom de plume, and an email address reserved for the
learning process ... so they'll never get my recipe for Crespelle alla
Fiorentina this way!

I'd tried ssl before but TPG refused it; I expect it clashed with the
port number, so I've learned from your advice, headless chicken that I
am -- in this subject area at least. Yes I'll admit I'm unsure whether
I'm IMAP or POP and would have called TPG support, but for the fact
they ring off as soon as you mention the word "Linux".

Anyway, an update: now I simply get "Login failed", with no useful
information WHY it failed. I can assure you I can type the password in
my sleep by by now. Perhaps I should go back to the drawing board and
learn about email first.

BTW: I do know something about POP and IMAP and the mails being stored
on either their server, on the my machine. Is that all there is to that
distinction? And I thought to declare my choice by using the port
number. And yes, I tried changing everything I could think of, and must
have used every possible combination - probably some improbable ones.

Sorry if I'm wasting your time. I'll go back to basics.

Many thanks

PS. I'm still sending mails effortlessly. That's the more important of
the two directions for my needs currently, and it'll have to do for
now.

Nikki

[Eduardo Chappa]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021, Nikki wrote:

> Thanks Eduardo, for the advice and also the caveats. Rest assured I used
> a fresh (and hence empty installation) on a computer I don't generally
> use, a nom de plume, and an email address reserved for the learning
> process ... so they'll never get my recipe for Crespelle alla Fiorentina
> this way!

Getting email passwords insecurely also has to do hacking into services.
Your provider could be hacked, and someone on your behalf could break
havoc. In some other providers it could also give access to the hacker to
other resources of yours, like files you store in the service, and much
more.

> I'd tried ssl before but TPG refused it; I expect it clashed with the
> port number, so I've learned from your advice, headless chicken that I
> am -- in this subject area at least. Yes I'll admit I'm unsure whether
> I'm IMAP or POP and would have called TPG support, but for the fact they
> ring off as soon as you mention the word "Linux".

I can connect to ssl securely, but I do not have a username and password
to use. If you call your provider, ask them what is the username you
should use to login in IMAP using, say, Thunderbird. Let's say that they
say "foo", then you should set Alpine to use the definition

{mail.tpg.com.au/ssl/user=foo}INBOX

and then enter your password (my hunch is that foo is the local part of
you email address f...@tpg.com.au)

On the other hand, when I go to

https://www.tpg.com.au/support/email_settings.html

I read that you only have insecure connections available (shiver!) In that
case get ready to lose your secret recipe for Crespelle alla Fiorentina.
If that is the case, then your configuration for your inbox should
be

{mail.tpg.com.au/user=foo}INBOX

> BTW: I do know something about POP and IMAP and the mails being stored
> on either their server, on the my machine. Is that all there is to that
> distinction?

No, there is more to the distinction, and Alpine does not store your
emails in your local machine at any time. Alpine always accesses your
email remotely.

> And I thought to declare my choice by using the port number.

You must tell alpine the protocol and port to connect, since you only told
alpine the port and not the protocol, Alpine used imap, because that is
what it does when you do not specify the protocol.

> Sorry if I'm wasting your time. I'll go back to basics.

This should be easy to configure, but I do not have the information I
need.

[Gary R. Schmidt]

On 29/08/2021 01:21, Nikki wrote:
[SNIP]
>
> I'd tried ssl before but TPG refused it; I expect it clashed with the[SNIP]

Late noticing this, but:

Is TPG your RSP or MSP??

If they are your RSP you do *not* have IMAP access to your mailbox, it
is simple POP3 and can only be accessed directly from within the TPG
network. (I use getmail to pull stuff out of my TPG mailbox, I just use
the SimplePOP3Receiver, I've never worried about securing it.)
A bit of checking reminds me that it supports SSL connections but not
with an encrypted password.

If they are your MSP - i.e. you have purchased this:
<https://www.tpg.com.au/products_services/imap.php> for forty quid a
year - then you have IMAP access.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

[My Name]

In article <8kdrvh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>, Gary R.

Hi Gary, and thanks for your comments. I'm with TPG as an NBN bundle,
and frankly I can't answer your question, or even say what the acronyms
stand for. RSP I assume (after a spot of DuckDucking) is "remote
service platform". MSP?

The fact is I've not really had to understand much about email before.
I moved to TPG (from Internode) as an aspect of moving to NBN, and
looked on it as a package deal, no MSP ingredient that I'm aware of. No
extra $40.

Maybe I should have my email accounts at Protonmail. Any thoughts on
them?

I'd hoped 'alpine' would be an all-in-one affair I could use in a CLI
environment, and as far as using 'getmail' or any of those utilities to
deal with mail, I clearly have a heap of learning to do. BTW: advice
about where to do that would be appreciated.

For context: I'm a long term MacOS user, and having toyed with Linux
for some time, am looking to take it seriously and abandon the Apple
Universe if-and-wherever possible.

All the best, and stay safe

Nikki

[My Name]

In article <93b664b-2a5c-b258...@washington.edu>,

Hi Eduardo

And thanks for another bunch of advice. A while back I launched
Thunderbird just to check that getting through was possible, and it
worked readily and easily, though I had to teach it to use the
'mail.tpg.com.au' combination rather than the 'smtp.tpg.com.au' etc it
defaulted to. However, the point is I could get it to send-and-receive
email, and I am indeed using the same data set. I'm now concerned about
TPG! The point is: they own almost all the 'other' providers (and
Vodafone as well) so there may be no escaping them. I'm trying to
escape the Apple Universe too. As a long-term MacOS user, I'm hoping to
escape Apple's clutches.

I've been lazy about email, it's clear, and am on a stiff learning
curve. Perhaps I'll not put all my eggs in TPG's basket. And go very
much more cautiously that I have done.

To sum up: I followed you advice rigorously, but nevertheless "Login
failed". I accept it must be frustrating without "the information you
need".

Sometimes you need to know the answers before understanding the
question!

Thanks for your time and efforts, they are much appreciated.

Nikki

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Residential Service Provider - because the NBN does what your previous
ISP and telephone provider did.

MSP is Mail Service Provider.

> Maybe I should have my email accounts at Protonmail. Any thoughts on
> them?
>

If you're freaked about the need for your email to be "secure" then
they're probably no more or less reliable that any other. They will all
roll over if the correctly worded court-order lands in the office.

(Proton mail is an MSP, as are Google and Hotmail/live.com &c.)

> I'd hoped 'alpine' would be an all-in-one affair I could use in a CLI
> environment, and as far as using 'getmail' or any of those utilities to
> deal with mail, I clearly have a heap of learning to do. BTW: advice
> about where to do that would be appreciated.
>
> For context: I'm a long term MacOS user, and having toyed with Linux
> for some time, am looking to take it seriously and abandon the Apple
> Universe if-and-wherever possible.
>

I don't think you are an Alpine user.

Some history: Pine was/is an email client (Mail User Agent, MUA)
developed back in the days (1992) when email systems were all internal
and when something went wrong you wandered down/up stairs to where the
people managing your servers sat and asked what was going on.

Alpine is a continuation of Pine, it was supposed to be easier to use
than Pine, but, IMNSHO it's just as opaque. (Note: I fiddle with alpine
from time to time, but there are problems getting it to play nicely with
my Panda-IMAP changes - see, that's the sort of stuff that happens when
you get into weird bollocks like alpine - so I don't use it in anger.)

Things like Alpine work best in a fully controlled environment, where
you run your own mail-server and know just what every little bit and
byte is doing, if you *know* how email works, it'd be fine.

If you have some overwhelming need to run a CLI environment - such as
being on the end of a noisy telephone line - then it might even be
necessary, but it certainly can be a rod for your back.

(Oh, I forgot the other big reason for wanting a CLI MUA, being blind.
I don't know what BCA or VisionAustralia are recommending these days,
back in 1980's I did some stuff using DEC hardware to make things easier
for people, but I've not paid much attention since.)

If you're moving to Linux, just use the GUI stuff, it all tends to work
just fine and is much more likely to be supported by /any/ RSP.
Although I've not had any problems with TPG support when I say UNIX or
Linux, it usually means they jump to the end of the script and bounce me
straight up a level!

I use Thunderbird on Solaris, Linux, and Windows, it just works, and I
don't have to think too hard about what I am doing. (I use LookOut! in
my day job, that's the problem with having to earn a living!!)

But I've made my living as a programmer and administrator since the days
of 300bps acoustic couplers and UUCP-maps, I'm all for making my life
easier.

[Roderick]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

...

> I don't think you are an Alpine user.

...

> I use Thunderbird on Solaris, Linux, and Windows, it just works, and I don't
> have to think too hard about what I am doing. (I use LookOut! in my day job,
> that's the problem with having to earn a living!!)

Is your task here to do advertisement for thinderbird?

I never used a GUI mail program, always used UNIX/BSD mail, pine, alpine,
and never missed something else. I just tried these bloated GUI programs
and find them horrible, with too much latency.

For downloading mails one can also use fetchmail.

R.

[Eduardo Chappa]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021, Nikki wrote:

> Hi out there
>
> Thanks to the great help I got a couple of months ago, I can now
> happily send emails from alpine wherever it is, on a Mac, a PC or
> laptop running Debian, even on my Pinephone running Mobian. All good.
>
> Well, not ALL, exactly, because now I'd like to be able to RECEIVE some
> mail too.
>
> I'm getting closer, and this time round have got stuck with a message I
> don't understand, nor has a Duck-Duck search helped. Alpine seems to be
> launching well, asks for the password, seems happy with it, but then I
> get:
>
> "Unexpected tagged response"
>
> or more fully:
>
> {mail.tpg.com.au:110/notls/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX: unexpected
> tagged response
>

Dear Nikki,

based on the input you and others have given, I suggest that you change
your configuration of your inbox-path to

{mail.tpg.com.au/pop3/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX

I hope this works.

[Eduardo Chappa]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021, Eduardo Chappa wrote:

> Dear Nikki,
>
> based on the input you and others have given, I suggest that you change
> your configuration of your inbox-path to
>
> {mail.tpg.com.au/pop3/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX
>
> I hope this works.

And if that does not work try

{mail.tpg.com.au/pop3/user=address}INBOX

instead (here "address" is the local part of "add...@tpg.com.au".

[Adam H. Kerman]

Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:

>. . .

>Some history: Pine was/is an email client (Mail User Agent, MUA)
>developed back in the days (1992) when email systems were all internal
>and when something went wrong you wandered down/up stairs to where the
>people managing your servers sat and asked what was going on.

Hah!

>Alpine is a continuation of Pine, it was supposed to be easier to use
>than Pine,

alpine is pine with a lot of the code rewritten. The concern was that
code had been incorporated that had been written by others. University
of Washington didn't want to deal with defending a software copyright
infringement lawsuit.

>but, IMNSHO it's just as opaque.

Actually, the features have always been reasonably well documented
because they didn't want to hold the hands of incoming freshmen.

>(Note: I fiddle with alpine
>from time to time, but there are problems getting it to play nicely with
>my Panda-IMAP changes - see, that's the sort of stuff that happens when
>you get into weird bollocks like alpine - so I don't use it in anger.)

Sigh

With a lot of trial and error, I was able to get alpine to work with
Gmail pseudomailboxes. There is absolutely no reason why it wouldn't
work with any IMAP and real mailboxes.

I'm called "weird bollocks" on you.

>Things like Alpine work best in a fully controlled environment, where
>you run your own mail-server and know just what every little bit and
>byte is doing, if you *know* how email works, it'd be fine.

I use alpine for remote access to Mail servers controlled by others.
When I have problems, it's with the server more often than not, nothing
to do with the client.

>If you have some overwhelming need to run a CLI environment - such as
>being on the end of a noisy telephone line - then it might even be
>necessary, but it certainly can be a rod for your back.

I like text from the command line. GUI has its place, but not with
plain text email.

>. . .

[Eduardo Chappa]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

> Alpine is a continuation of Pine, it was supposed to be easier to use
> than Pine, but, IMNSHO it's just as opaque. (Note: I fiddle with alpine
> from time to time, but there are problems getting it to play nicely with
> my Panda-IMAP changes - see, that's the sort of stuff that happens when
> you get into weird bollocks like alpine - so I don't use it in anger.)

Dear Gary,

if you ever want to collaborate, I woulw be happy to work with you to see
if we can find the correct way to modify Panda-IMAP so that it will work
with Alpine, and other Imap clients. Feel free to contact me
off-newsgroup. My email address is good.

[Nikki]

In article <827a449f-3715-952...@washington.edu>,

Eduardo Chappa <cha...@washington.edu> wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021, Eduardo Chappa wrote:
>
> > Dear Nikki,
> >
> > based on the input you and others have given, I suggest that you change
> > your configuration of your inbox-path to
> >
> > {mail.tpg.com.au/pop3/user=add...@tpg.com.au}INBOX
> >
> > I hope this works.
>
> And if that does not work try
>
> {mail.tpg.com.au/pop3/user=address}INBOX
>
> instead (here "address" is the local part of "add...@tpg.com.au".

Thanks yet again for your advice, all of which I shall try. I've
learned a lot in this exchange, about alpine, email generally, and
particularly security.

I'm most grateful.

Nikki

[Nikki]

In article <9m7svh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>, Gary R.

Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:

> I don't think you are an Alpine user.

I thought this was a little harsh. We all have to start somewhere, and
I haven't finished yet.

All the best in these tough times.

Nikki