PC-Pine ISO-8859-2 <=> Windows-1250

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Pavel Faltýnek

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Jan 4, 2005, 5:07:34 PM1/4/05
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Hi all,

is there any possibility to encode/decode outgoing/incoming mail texts
to/from ISO-8859-2 character set in PC-Pine 4.60?

I would like send/receive emails in standard ISO encoding, but my win32
natively uses crapy cp1250.

When I set "character-set" option to "Windows-1250", received ISO text is
mangled and outgoing message has non-standard encoding (but correct
readable by tolerant clients).

When "character-set" option is set to "ISO-8859-2", incoming ISO text is
mangled (because of cp1250 font?), outgoing text is mangled (marked as
ISO, but is cp1250).

I suppose, ideal solution is ability to filter outgoing/incoming
"text/plain" message through user filter (iconv) before
sending/displaying, is there any techique for PC-Pine?

Thanks for any suggestions.

-- pf

Andreas Prilop

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Jan 5, 2005, 11:52:18 AM1/5/05
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On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Pavel Faltýnek wrote:

> is there any possibility to encode/decode outgoing/incoming mail texts
> to/from ISO-8859-2 character set in PC-Pine 4.60?
>
> I would like send/receive emails in standard ISO encoding, but my win32
> natively uses crapy cp1250.
>
> When I set "character-set" option to "Windows-1250", received ISO text is
> mangled and outgoing message has non-standard encoding (but correct
> readable by tolerant clients).

Is it? I remember that even PC-Pine 4.50 could transcode incoming
messages from ISO-8859-5 to Windows-1251:
http://www.google.co.uk/groups?th=ca10b5ce1406462d

Here is a test for you:

Letters with acute
AÁ aá CĆ cć EÉ eé IÍ ií LĹ lĺ NŃ nń OÓ oó RŔ rŕ SŚ sś UÚ uú YÝ yý ZŹ zź

Letters with apostrophe
dď LĽ lľ tť

Letters with breve
AĂ aă

Letters with caron (hacek)
CČ cč DĎ EĚ eě NŇ nň RŘ rř SŠ sš TŤ ZŽ zž

Letters with cedilla (comma)
CÇ cç SŞ sş TŢ tţ

Letters with circumflex
AÂ aâ IÎ iî OÔ oô

Letters with diaeresis (umlaut)
AÄ aä EË eë OÖ oö UÜ uü

Letters with dot above
ZŻ zż

Letters with double acute
OŐ oő UŰ uű

Letters with ogonek
AĄ aą EĘ eę

Letters with ring above
UŮ uů

Letters with stroke
DĐ dđ LŁ lł

--
Mars, unlike Earth, has no atmosphere.
The Chicago manual of style, 15th ed., p. 362

Erik Quaeghebeur

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Jan 5, 2005, 2:06:49 PM1/5/05
to
Hi,

Just out of interest I tried it too, with
character-set: utf-8
font-charset (encoding?): Eastern-European

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Andreas Prilop wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Pavel Faltýnek wrote:
>

>> [...]


>>
>> When I set "character-set" option to "Windows-1250", received ISO text
>> is mangled and outgoing message has non-standard encoding (but correct
>> readable by tolerant clients).
>
> Is it? I remember that even PC-Pine 4.50 could transcode incoming
> messages from ISO-8859-5 to Windows-1251:
> http://www.google.co.uk/groups?th=ca10b5ce1406462d
>
> Here is a test for you:
>

I'll leave everything that doesn't come out right.

> Letters with acute
> AÁ aá CÆ cæ EÉ eé IÍ ií LÅ lå NÑ nñ OÓ oó RÀ rà S¦ s¶ UÚ uú YÝ yý Z¬ z¼
S¦ s¶ Z¬ z¼
>
> Letters with apostrophe
> dï L¥ lµ t»
L¥ lµ t»
>
> Letters with breve
(both ok)
>
> Letters with caron (hacek)
> CÈ cè DÏ EÌ eì NÒ nò RØ rø S© s¹ T« Z® z¾
S© s¹ T« Z® z¾
>
> Letters with cedilla (comma)
(all ok)
>
> Letters with circumflex
(all ok)
>
> Letters with diaeresis (umlaut)
(all ok)
>
> Letters with dot above
(both ok)
>
> Letters with double acute
(all ok)
>
> Letters with ogonek
> A¡ a± EÊ eê
A¡ a±
>
> Letters with ring above
(both ok)
>
> Letters with stroke
(all ok)

Not too bad...

Erik

Andreas Prilop

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Jan 6, 2005, 11:30:21 AM1/6/05
to
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Erik Quaeghebeur wrote:

> Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1434823-17610-1104952009=:388"

Please don't do this in news.

> Just out of interest I tried it too, with
> character-set: utf-8

There's something wrong with your message. It has "charset=utf-8"
but in fact it is encoded in ISO-8859-2.

> I'll leave everything that doesn't come out right.

I don't understand what you mean.

> Not too bad...

ISO-8859-2 and Windows-1250 have a lot of characters in the same
code positions. If _those_ characters come out right, it's not
a big surprise. The question is what happens to the rest.
Does PC-Pine treat Central European ISO-8859-2 differently
from Cyrillic ISO-8859-5?

Erik Quaeghebeur

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Jan 6, 2005, 4:40:54 PM1/6/05
to
Sorry for the noninformative citation for newcomers, but a quick followup
seemed necessary.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Erik Quaeghebeur wrote:

> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
> --10875538-9961-1105047051=:2040
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
>
> [ ... enormous 'snip' ... ]
>
Sorry, I did it again, but this time I expressly put everything back as
always. There wasn't (and also isn't) any setting in my pinerc(ex) which
selected ISO-8859-2. And as far as I know, there was no non-ASCII
character in the quoted post. It's a mystery to me. I wouldn't dare to
guess how this post will come out...

Erik

Erik Quaeghebeur

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Jan 6, 2005, 4:30:51 PM1/6/05
to
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Andreas Prilop wrote:

>> Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1434823-17610-1104952009=:388"
>
> Please don't do this in news.
>

Sorry, but I didn't do this... Pine did it for me ;-), I suppose to
accomodate for the non-ASCII nature of my post. I think I've seen some
discussion about this here in comp.mail.pine and I'm way too ignorant
about the specifics to discuss it. Most of the time I limit myself to
accentless English on usenet, otherwise I would probably care more.

>> Just out of interest I tried it too, with
>> character-set: utf-8
>
> There's something wrong with your message. It has "charset=utf-8"
> but in fact it is encoded in ISO-8859-2.
>

I wouldn't have know unless you told me and I still have to believe you on
faith, because I have no idea how to determine this. What I did was set
character-set=utf-8 and the "Window Font" to "Central European Script" in
the PC-Pine 'Config' menu.

>> I'll leave everything that doesn't come out right.
>
> I don't understand what you mean.
>

I removed all the pairs for which the accent displayed ok.

>> Not too bad...
>
> ISO-8859-2 and Windows-1250 have a lot of characters in the same
> code positions. If _those_ characters come out right, it's not
> a big surprise. The question is what happens to the rest.
> Does PC-Pine treat Central European ISO-8859-2 differently
> from Cyrillic ISO-8859-5?
>

Interesting question, I have no clue. I am interested in how Pine handles
character sets and such though, because even with my usage (Dutch, French,
some German, some Spanish) I have encountered numerous problems (I suppose
due to handling by other MUA's and due to terminal font encoding). Which
means I mostly follow the relevant discussions from a respectful distance.

Best regards,

Erik

Mark Crispin

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Jan 7, 2005, 2:52:30 AM1/7/05
to
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Andreas Prilop wrote:
>> Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1434823-17610-1104952009=:388"
> Please don't do this in news.

Please. We do not need Alan Connor-like net.fascist.cop behavior in
comp.mail.pine.

MIME has been standard for over 10 years.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Andreas Prilop

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Jan 7, 2005, 8:57:29 AM1/7/05
to
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Erik Quaeghebeur wrote:

> Sorry, I did it again, but this time I expressly put everything back as
> always.

Select downgrade-multipart-to-text in your Pine configuration.
This new feature of Pine 4.6 is annoying in news.

--
Western Europe is not the entire world.

Andreas Prilop

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Jan 7, 2005, 9:03:33 AM1/7/05
to
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Mark Crispin wrote:

> MIME has been standard for over 10 years.

How does PC-Pine 4.6 treat

| Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-2

? Can it display all special, non-ASCII characters correctly?

Andreas Prilop

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Jan 7, 2005, 9:15:50 AM1/7/05
to
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Erik Quaeghebeur wrote:

> Sorry, but I didn't do this... Pine did it for me ;-), I suppose to
> accomodate for the non-ASCII nature of my post. I think I've seen some
> discussion about this here in comp.mail.pine and I'm way too ignorant
> about the specifics to discuss it.

Select "[X] downgrade-multipart-to-text" in your Pine configuration.

> What I did was set
> character-set=utf-8 and the "Window Font" to "Central European Script" in
> the PC-Pine 'Config' menu.

Set "character-set=windows-1250" and try again:

Letters with acute


AÁ aá CĆ cć EÉ eé IÍ ií LĹ lĺ NŃ nń OÓ oó RŔ rŕ SŚ sś UÚ uú YÝ yý ZŹ zź

Letters with apostrophe
dď LĽ lľ tť

Letters with breve
AĂ aă

Letters with caron (hacek)
CČ cč DĎ EĚ eě NŇ nň RŘ rř SŠ sš TŤ ZŽ zž

Letters with cedilla (comma)
CÇ cç SŞ sş TŢ tţ

Letters with circumflex
AÂ aâ IÎ iî OÔ oô

Letters with diaeresis (umlaut)
AÄ aä EË eë OÖ oö UÜ uü

Letters with dot above
ZŻ zż

Letters with double acute
OŐ oő UŰ uű

Letters with ogonek
AĄ aą EĘ eę

Letters with ring above
UŮ uů

Letters with stroke
DĐ dđ LŁ lł

--

Mark Crispin

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Jan 7, 2005, 8:33:58 PM1/7/05
to
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> How does PC-Pine trea

> | Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-2
> ? Can it display all special, non-ASCII characters correctly?

Yes, if it is set to use that character set in Config -> Set Window Font

The current version of UNIX Pine and PC Pine must be set to a specific
character set. It will attempt to convert characters in another character
set to the user's set character set.

If you are asking, "can PC Pine display messages in any character set, no
matter what the user's setting?" then the answer is "not yet". But that
is a matter of Unicode, not MIME.

Mark Crispin

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Jan 7, 2005, 8:39:46 PM1/7/05
to
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> Select downgrade-multipart-to-text in your Pine configuration.
> This new feature of Pine 4.6 is annoying in news.

Note that when you do this, your messages are vulnerable to being
corrupted if they pass in 7-bit quoted-printable or base64 through a
mailing list or other system that appends arbitrary text to the message.
When this happens, your recipients will receive unreadable messages and
will blame you.

I believe that it is more important to send messages that are always
reliably received, than it is to obey self-proclaimed net.police who order
you to behave in a certain way to satisfy their capricious whims.

Erik Quaeghebeur

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Jan 8, 2005, 11:38:43 AM1/8/05
to
A quick reply:

> > What I did was set character-set=utf-8 and the "Window Font" to
> > "Central European Script" in the PC-Pine 'Config' menu.
>
> Set "character-set=windows-1250" and try again:
>

> [ ... snipped a list of paired accented/non-accented characters ... ]
>
All displayed perfectly.

Erik

Andreas Prilop

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Jan 10, 2005, 8:48:33 AM1/10/05
to
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Mark Crispin wrote:

>> How does PC-Pine trea
>> | Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-2
>> ? Can it display all special, non-ASCII characters correctly?
>
> Yes, if it is set to use that character set in Config -> Set Window Font

What do you mean by "that character set"? Should the PC-Pine user
set "character-set=ISO-8859-2" or "character-set=Windows-1250"
or are both possible?

> The current version of UNIX Pine and PC Pine must be set to a specific
> character set. It will attempt to convert characters in another character
> set to the user's set character set.

That's okay with me.

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