Eudora and old email retrieval

[Inquisitive]

am having a problem with downloading some older emails using Eudora.

I have a POP3 account with an ISP that also has a Webmail interface
and generally use the Web interface but from time-to-time download
emails to Eudora (version 7). I had 150-200 emails on the server
dating from August last year and over the weekend tried to download
them all.

Unfortunately, while all of the messages from the last 8 months or so
were downloaded without an issue, all mails on or before October 30th
last year were not retrieved. No error message crop up during the
download process, and all new messages that are subsequently sent to
me also seem to be retrieved fine.

I had a look at the options but cannot find one that restricts the
date for which emails should be retrieved. Is this a problem with one
of the settings on the client, and if so could you please let me know
what I need to change? Alternatively, could the messages on the server
somehow be marked in a different way such that Eudora does not see
them?

[John H Meyers]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:35:37 -0500, Inquisitive wrote:

> am having a problem with downloading some older emails using Eudora.
>
> I have a POP3 account with an ISP that also has a Webmail interface
> and generally use the Web interface but from time-to-time download
> emails to Eudora (version 7). I had 150-200 emails on the server
> dating from August last year and over the weekend tried to download
> them all.

Does the ISP have a quota, or a limit to how much old mail you can store?

If so, it is prudent to get those emails fetched to somewhere else,
either to your own computer or to some web-based account, such as Gmail,
at the same time deleting them from what is usually a limited quota
on the incoming servers of most conventional ISPs.

Think of the ISP's incoming server as like a collection of
Post Office Boxes, each having only so much physical space --
what if people never emptied those boxes, and just let mail
accumulate indefinitely, perhaps only reading some of it
through the glass window, but never removing any of it?

> Unfortunately, while all of the messages from the last 8 months or so
> were downloaded without an issue, all mails on or before October 30th
> last year were not retrieved. No error message crop up during the
> download process, and all new messages that are subsequently
> sent to me also seem to be retrieved fine.

Are the emails that you did download still seen on the server,
when using webmail? How about those which did not download?

> I had a look at the options but cannot find one
> that restricts the date for which emails should be retrieved.

There isn't any.

> Is this a problem with one of the settings on the client?

No, but you may be using "Leave mail on server" inappropriately,
which may include never setting an expiration time
for keeping previously downloaded mail on the incoming server.

> Alternatively, could the messages on the server
> somehow be marked in a different way
> such that Eudora does not see them?

Is there any possibility that Eudora _has_ seen them before?

In other words, might you have last used Eudora on or before last October 30,
and actually retrieved those messages, but left them on the server?
(is the "Leave mail on server" option check-marked?)

If you have previously downloaded messages _and_ left them on the
ISP's incoming mail server, then Eudora (or any client)
remembers which messages it has already downloaded,
and will not retrieve them a second time,
even if you have deleted your downloaded copy,
to avoid duplicates on your own computer of the same messages.

Eudora remembers which messages have been previously downloaded
using files named LMOS.DAT -- the "Dominant" personality's file
is in the "spool" subfolder of the main mail folder,
and any other personalities have their own LMOS.DAT files
in additional named subfolders within "spool"

Deleting or renaming an LMOS.DAT file will cause a new download
of every message still residing in the corresponding server;
this may, however, result in very many duplicates.

A more complex way to selectively re-download
is to "Fetch all message headers to 'In' mailbox,"
then change the "Server status" of all those you want to re-download
to "Fetch from server," then check mail normally.

Hold down a keyboard "Shift" key while manually initiating a "Check Mail"
to reveal a set of special "Mail Transfer Options" which includes
"Fetch all message headers to 'In' mailbox" -- as the phrase implies,
this fetches only message headers; it also suppresses filtering
(so that everything remains in the 'In' mailbox),
and contrary to any wording in the manual,
it fetches all headers of mail still existing on the POP server,
regardless of whether it is "new" or "old."

Eudora's help (and manual) also include a warning
that if you delete downloaded headers-only messages
and then empty those from trash,
the "Delete from server when emptied from Trash" option,
if active, will apply to those messages as well.

--

[Inquisitive]

Hi,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.

I tried your suggestions:

- SHIFT and manually initiate a Check Mail
- Deleting the LMOS.DAT file
- Fetch all message headers

Unfortunately in none of the cases did I manage to download the
messages that are on the server. I can still see them in the Webmail
interface, and if I send myself a test message from another email
account then the mail client correctly manages to retrieve the new
message when I initiate a Check mail manually.

I wonder if somehow the messages on the server are marked in a
different way that renders them invisible to Eudora? I haven't
downloaded them before, and even when I deleted the LMOS.DAT file they
were still not retrieved....

[John H Meyers]

Were any duplicates at all (of previously downloaded messages) retrieved?

Did you ever try "Fetch all message headers to 'In' mailbox"?
Did headers for the "missing" messages then get fetched?
(look for the old dates, etc.)

You might try an independent POP client,
such as this simple, web-based one
(be sure to choose POP3 protocol, not IMAP4):
http://mail2web.com/login/?lid=0&il=0
or http://mail2web.com/ then click "Advanced Login"
(this works via a web site, and shows all messages
which the server would list for ANY client using POP).

If this web client, using POP3, does not see some messages,
then NO other POP3 client can see them.

If you'd like to try something else, you can use any Gmail account (free)
to retrieve all of the mail in any other POP account, anywhere, via:
"Settings" | "Accounts" | "Get mail from other accounts"
(one can choose whether or not to leave original mail on the original server).

The POP protocol is really very simplistic; the client asks for
a list of all the messages available, and can then request, for each one,
to see either the entire message or only the "top" so many lines.

The only thing that would discourage a download of every single message
is if it appears to have already been downloaded,
during a previous session.

It is theoretically possible for a POP server to exist
which does not implement (or improperly implements)
the "UIDL" command, which assigns a never-changing meaningless "unique ID"
to each message, which is how most clients implement
"leave mail on server," saving those unique IDs in each session,
and comparing them on later sessions, but to find such a server
would be like spotting a "Model T" Ford still rolling along a major highway :)

I do not see where we ever mentioned what ISP this is.

Some ISPs may not use POP for their own "webmail" application,
in which case they may show different mail, which can not be retrieved
(but it's generally in a different mailbox than the common "Inbox");
some of these ISPs actually use IMAP (a different protocol),
which clients can optionally also use, instead of POP
(but there are major differences in how these work).

Did you, by any chance, start with any very old version of Eudora,
then keep updating it to newer versions?

One can "fix all obsolete settings problems"
by "resetting" almost the entire set of Eudora options
http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1929hq.html
but for a less drastic experiment,
one can copy all of the following into a Eudora message,
click in turn on each one while holding ALT on the keyboard,
then say "OK" to each pop-up (be sure to do all three):

<X-Eudora-Option:FirstUnreadNormal=1>
<X-Eudora-Option:FirstUnreadStatus=0>
<X-Eudora-Option:UsePOPLast=0>

--

[Happy Oyster]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:50:30 -0700 (PDT), Inquisitive <s.wi...@talk21.com>
wrote:

Hi,

the last passage is strange. Using web-mail, can you still see the old messages
on the server?

Suggestion:
1. Move all emails of the IN-box of eurora into another mbx file.
2. Close Eudora
3. delete in.mbx AND in.toc
4. start Eudora and try to download again.

Eudora somewhere keeps track of what it downloaded. Perhaps deleting the IN-box
will enable a new download.

If that does not work: Install Eudora on a second machine and try to download
from there. Be very careful to set the option in the parameters to "let email
stay on server". This prevents the email to be deleted if the attempt fails.

Regards,

Aribert Deckers
--
" Ich glaub, ans gro�e Weltgericht
glaubt selbst manch Pfarrer heute nicht."

http://www.reimbibel.de

[Inquisitive]

I think I have it sorted thanks to you. It looks like messages before
October 30th were resident in an IMAP server.

When I used the client you suggested below and selected POP3, I could
not see the messages in it, but on a hunch I selected IMAP4 and then
the messages suddenly appeared. With that in mind I temporarily
changed the configuration in Eudora to IMAP and I finally managed to
get the messages!

The messages are still available in the Webmail client but I will
delete them using the browser client, so all is good.

Thanks very much for your help.

On Jul 1, 12:32 am, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:50:30 -0500, Inquisitive wrote:
> > I tried your suggestions:
>
> > - SHIFT and manually initiate a Check Mail
> > - Deleting the LMOS.DAT file
> > - Fetch all message headers
>
> > Unfortunately in none of the cases did I manage to download the
> > messages that are on the server. I can still see them in the Webmail
> > interface, and if I send myself a test message from another email
> > account then the mail client correctly manages to retrieve the new
> > message when I initiate a Check mail manually.
>
> > I wonder if somehow the messages on the server are marked in a
> > different way that renders them invisible to Eudora? I haven't
> > downloaded them before, and even when I deleted the LMOS.DAT file
> > they were still not retrieved....
>
> Were any duplicates at all (of previously downloaded messages) retrieved?
>
> Did you ever try "Fetch all message headers to 'In' mailbox"?
> Did headers for the "missing" messages then get fetched?
> (look for the old dates, etc.)
>
> You might try an independent POP client,
> such as this simple, web-based one
> (be sure to choose POP3 protocol, not IMAP4):http://mail2web.com/login/?lid=0&il=0

> orhttp://mail2web.com/then click "Advanced Login"

> by "resetting" almost the entire set of Eudora optionshttp://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1929hq.html

> but for a less drastic experiment,
> one can copy all of the following into a Eudora message,
> click in turn on each one while holding ALT on the keyboard,
> then say "OK" to each pop-up (be sure to do all three):
>
> <X-Eudora-Option:FirstUnreadNormal=1>
> <X-Eudora-Option:FirstUnreadStatus=0>
> <X-Eudora-Option:UsePOPLast=0>
>

> --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Inquisitive <s.wi...@talk21.com> wrote:

>I think I have it sorted thanks to you. It looks like messages before
>October 30th were resident in an IMAP server.
>
>When I used the client you suggested below and selected POP3, I could
>not see the messages in it, but on a hunch I selected IMAP4 and then
>the messages suddenly appeared. With that in mind I temporarily
>changed the configuration in Eudora to IMAP and I finally managed to
>get the messages!

Now isn't that interesting! Good troubleshooting. And thanks for posting back your
solution for others.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/