Where is my 'Inbox'?

[Peter Ceresole]

I recently had to change my email setup; I was using Eudora 6.2.4 in OS
10.6.8, with POP3. It worked just fine but then my ISP switched to an
Exchange mail system, and I couldn't connect Eudora to their server.
I've tried everything, with a very helpful helpline, but nothing doing.
It simply won't connect- while Apple's Mail connects first pop with
never a problem. It looks like a Eudora speciality.

So I tried Mail with IMAP, and that works very well too. As Apple has
dropped Rosetta, Eudora wouldn't make it past the next upgrade, so I
stuck with Mail for now. But I have a huge mailbase in Eudora, and it's
useful for now to be able to read and quote from those past mailbaxes in
the same application, so I tried Eudora with IMAP to that same Exchange
server, and it works absolutely fine. Except that in Mail I have a
mailbox called 'Inbox' into which messages arrive, and are part
automatically sent to other specified mailboxes, and partly kept in
'Inbox'. But although all the other mailboxes are displayed under
'Dominant' in Eudora, 'Inbox' doesn't appear, and nor do its contents.

Should 'Inbox' appear in Eudora? It's on the server, as far as I can
tell. How can I make it visible?
--
Peter

[Peter Ceresole]

Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Should 'Inbox' appear in Eudora? It's on the server, as far as I can
> tell. How can I make it visible?

I really am not at all knowledgeable about IMAP, so please be gentle
with me...
--
Peter

[David Sankey]

In article <1ku6x9q.m0snri1qjm6psN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,

I'm afraid that the details are starting to fade away now...

But yes IMAP gives you an inbox, called Inbox

But Cmd-1 takes you to your local In box (on your Mac) - I always had
this as an alias to the true Inbox.

Try firkling in the IMAP Folder in your Eudora Folder. No joy, then go
to Mailboxes window in Eudora, select a folder on the server and click
on 'Options' at bottom of the window and choose 'Refresh Mailbox List'
(p 160 in't manual).

Dave

[Peter Ceresole]

David Sankey <David....@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> I'm afraid that the details are starting to fade away now...

I'm not surprised- and let me start by saying how grateful I am for your
help with Eudora. You were right, that Eudora connects to Demon fine via
IMAP, although still not to POP3. But I have to say that, as Eudora is
time-limited on a Mac, being forced to use Mail isn't the hell I feared
it might be, and gives me a rather more future-proof way ahead. Actually
Mail is (gulp) rather good.

> Try firkling in the IMAP Folder in your Eudora Folder.

No Inbox there...

> No joy, then go
> to Mailboxes window in Eudora, select a folder on the server and click
> on 'Options' at bottom of the window and choose 'Refresh Mailbox List'
> (p 160 in't manual).

Yup, did that, no change.

I shall pursue this out of interest, but for no other reason. After all,
cut and paste between applications works seamlessly on the Mac, so using
the old Eudora mailbase, and its super-quick Find function, means that
it's really easy to use it alongside Mail.
--
Peter

[David Sankey]

In article <1ku7upc.16t56n51qzjhyrN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,

pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) wrote:

> David Sankey <David....@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'm afraid that the details are starting to fade away now...
>
> I'm not surprised- and let me start by saying how grateful I am for your
> help with Eudora. You were right, that Eudora connects to Demon fine via
> IMAP, although still not to POP3. But I have to say that, as Eudora is
> time-limited on a Mac, being forced to use Mail isn't the hell I feared
> it might be, and gives me a rather more future-proof way ahead. Actually
> Mail is (gulp) rather good.
>
> > Try firkling in the IMAP Folder in your Eudora Folder.
>
> No Inbox there...
>
> > No joy, then go
> > to Mailboxes window in Eudora, select a folder on the server and click
> > on 'Options' at bottom of the window and choose 'Refresh Mailbox List'
> > (p 160 in't manual).
>
> Yup, did that, no change.

I now see that I've already removed my IMAP cache from Eudora and had
previously excluded it from Time Machine, so haven't come across a
working version of what I had.

>
> I shall pursue this out of interest, but for no other reason. After all,
> cut and paste between applications works seamlessly on the Mac, so using
> the old Eudora mailbase, and its super-quick Find function, means that
> it's really easy to use it alongside Mail.

I'll say again Eudora Mailbox Cleaner and sounds like force a Spotlight
refresh (in Spotlight preferences first exclude ~/Library then remove it
from exclusions). The search in Mail has impressed me so I'm a tad
puzzled by your tale of woe here. In deed, just for fun I searched for
you in Mail and found this little titbit from 2004 (indentation has gone
AWOL on copy from Mail, but you get the gist)!

Kind regards,

Dave

Begin forwarded message:
From: Martin Sammtleben <no...@m.is>
Subject: Re: Incomplete importation of Eudora mailboxes by Mail.app
Date: 4 August 2004 10:42:04 GMT+01:00

In article <ceoq7c$3ue$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
jbr...@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:

In article <1ghyi7i.yw24741eil0cgN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,
Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:
John Brock <jbr...@panix.com> wrote:

In particular I have wondered whether these problems might go away
if I installed Eudora 6.1, imported the mailboxes from 4.3 to 6.1,
and then imported from 6.1 to Mail.app.

Why not just install 6.1 and use it? It's rather good.

That's certainly an option.  But Mail.app is integrated into OS X,
and it seemed simpler to just use that (in particular since I expect
that the difference between Eudora 6.1 and 4.3 is probably at least
as great as that between 4.3 and Mail.app).

No, if you've used 4 you will feel right at home in 6 which is a good
thing. Eudora is much faster with large amounts of mail, too.
Improvements appear to be fairly subtle except for the much needed spam
filtering in paid-mode.


Do you have any idea why Mail.app fails to
import attachments?

No, but it screws up accented characters, too.

Here is a little app that has reportedly solved most of those problems
for many users but I haven't tried it myself:

<http://homepage.mac.com/aamann/Eudora_Mailbox_Cleaner.html>

Last but not least:  why not ask your mother first what she'd prefer to
use?

--
Cheers   Martin

[Peter Ceresole]

David Sankey <David....@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> I'll say again Eudora Mailbox Cleaner and sounds like force a Spotlight
> refresh (in Spotlight preferences first exclude ~/Library then remove it
> from exclusions). The search in Mail has impressed me so I'm a tad
> puzzled by your tale of woe here.

I downloaded Eudora Mailbox cleaner and just waited to see if I really
needed to do the conversion, but find, as I said, that running both
Eudora (not connecting though) and Mail works really pretty well, and
very simply. My wife, who uses email more than I do as she's still
lecturing and organising things, caught on straight away.

As for Mail's search, I had some trouble finding it (didn't think to use
the search box in the toolbar as although it's standard Apple interface,
I don't exploit that interface as much as I should, what with having
used non-Apple software a lot in the past e.g Eudora) but now, I know
better. What threw me was that doing a 'Find' in Eudora opens a new
window with options, whereas in Mail it simply puts the cursor into the
search box. So discreet, I thought it was doing nothing.
--
Peter

[David Morrison]

In article <1ku6w54.1xb7vce9hnqhkN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,

IMAP has some oddities. Some servers choose to place the standard
mailboxes (Deleted messages, Drafts, Sent Messages, Sent, Spam and
Trash) inside the INBOX. Some choose to place them at the same level as
the INBOX. Some are even case sensitive so INBOX is not the same as
Inbox.

Then you have Apple Mail which can map its standard mailboxes (Sent,
Trash, Junk, Drafts) to the corresponding mailboxes on the IMAP server.
It seems to automatically know where INBOX is.

On the IMAP accounts I have used with Eudora, iCloud has all the
mailboxes at the same level as INBOX. Another account on a hosting
provider only has Inbox directly inside it, and all the other mailboxes
inside Inbox.

I have just noticed that at the top of the list of mailboxes inside
Inbox is an italicised entry called "This mailbox" which contains a lot
of messages (for me).

Failing that, the Personality Extra setting has a field called "Location
Prefix". You could try putting Inbox or INBOX in there and seeing what
you can see then.

[John H Meyers]

On 11/26/2012 5:20 PM, Peter Ceresole wrote:

> I recently had to change my email setup; I was using Eudora 6.2.4 in OS
> 10.6.8, with POP3. It worked just fine but then my ISP switched to an
> Exchange mail system, and I couldn't connect Eudora to their server.

The Exchange administrator can enable any combination of
POP, IMAP, or proprietary Microsoft communication with the server.

If they have enabled POP then you can use POP with Eudora,
but if they have not enabled POP then of course you can not.

Lack of specific details, both about their server
and what "couldn't connect" means,
limits offering connection help from this end.

It would be a bit strange for a normal ISP to stop allowing POP,
but stranger things have happened (e.g. iCloud now allows only IMAP,
but doesn't offer enough storage to hold many users'
complete mail archive?)

> I've tried everything, with a very helpful helpline, but nothing doing.
> It simply won't connect- while Apple's Mail connects first pop with
> never a problem.

Can readers translate "Tried everything"
into any idea of what specific settings were really tried,
and spot what omission might then be what's needed?

Did Apple Mail set itself up as a POP account,
as an IMAP account, or what?

For each account type, with normal ISPs,
a systemic "trial" of only two settings would be needed
to succeed in connecting to incoming mail if possible,
and only three combinations of settings
for outgoing mail, but if "trying everything"
becomes less than systematic, one might instead
run in unproductive circles and fail.

The systematic "trials" that I would use for incoming mail are
to set SSL for the given account once to "Required (Alternate Port)"
and if server isn't contacted at all, then "If Available, [Start]TLS"

For the outgoing side, the "If Available, [Start]TLS" try
might need to be done once with "Use...587" set
and once without, and always with "authorize/authenticate"
set and "use relay" disabled.

Those two or three trials per server cover all
"standard ports" used by all ISPs that serve the public,
but behind closed corporate doors lurk many a "BOFH" ;-)

Saying that Eudora has a problem while Apple Mail doesn't
is like saying that you plugged in two similar-looking appliances,
and Brand X worked while Brand Y didn't -- but have you measured
the voltage at the wall outlet, and examined more closely
the legend on each appliance, saying what voltage etc.
each appliance was constructed for?

It could be a matter of your ISP enabling only IMAP and not POP,
while you left Eudora set on POP and Apple Mail set on IMAP.

It could also be a matter of just selecting the correct
SSL setting for each server (and/or "use 587" for SMTP).

If you name the actual new servers, it would take us
only a moment to find out what's enabled, on what ports,
and then to identify what Eudora settings go with that,
but thus far the information offered is not sufficient
for us to diagnose, test, or tell you what settings might work,
or whether the ISP has simply not enabled what you want to use.

> so I tried Eudora with IMAP to that same Exchange
> server, and it works absolutely fine.

Did your helpful ISP ever disclose whether they even
support POP at all? If not, then you'd better
either settle for using IMAP or not using that ISP ;-)

> Except that in Mail I have a
> mailbox called 'Inbox' into which messages arrive, and are part
> automatically sent to other specified mailboxes, and partly kept in
> 'Inbox'. But although all the other mailboxes are displayed under
> 'Dominant' in Eudora, 'Inbox' doesn't appear, and nor do its contents.

The fundamental meaning of an IMAP account is that all mailboxes
reside on the remote server, and you are as if looking through
a telescope at that remote server's content, not at the local
mailboxes which you defined on your own computer when using POP.

Therefore, not one single IMAP mailbox corresponds to
any POP mailbox, because they reside at opposite ends of a network.

"East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet"
said Kipling, and when it comes to IMAP vs. POP,
"IMAP mailboxes live at the ISP, and POP mailboxes live on
your computer, and never those twain shall meet, either."

Every IMAP account has, in fact, its own completely separate
set of mailboxes, because each one lives in a different place,
in absolute segregation from any other account's storage,
as well as absolutely separate from your own computer's file storage.

Unfiltered incoming mail is normally labeled "Inbox" in every IMAP account,
and any other mailboxes are as you (or the ISP) may have created
in the totally independent remote file storage area for that sole account.

You can usually arrange to copy messages between remote (IMAP)
and local (POP) storage, or between the mailboxes of one IMAP account
and another, just as you can ship your belongings
between different homes, but the "homes" themselves
will always remain distinctly apart.

--

[Peter Ceresole]

John H Meyers <jhme...@nomail.invalid> wrote:

> Lack of specific details, both about their server
> and what "couldn't connect" means,
> limits offering connection help from this end.

I realise that, but I wanted to keep the post reasonably short. So:

The ISP does provide a POP3 service which I have used for many years
before they switched to an Exchange server. They also provide IMAP,
which I hadn't used before.

When I say we 'tried everything', I mean that with the ISP's helpline, I
checked the port settings, SSL, passwords. With identical settings in
both, Mail connected immediately to the POP3 server and Eudora timed out
announcing that it couldn't connect to the POP3 server.

For the IMAP service, again with identical settings, Mail connected and
so did Eudora, but Mail showed the Inbox mailbox while Eudora didn't
(and still doesn't). There was no confusion with the POP3 mailboxes; I
knew that these were completely separate from the IMAP boxes, that the
systems were different.

On the ISP's newsgroup, demon.service, there are plenty of complaints
about the configuration of the new Exchange system, to do with the
implementation of forwarding and other features that don't affect me
directly, like SPF, but most users seem to be using it with few
problems, both with POP3 and IMAP.

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that there is some problem with using
Eudora with this exchange server whereas there is none with Mail, and
that this is a peculiarity of Eudora, not Mail. And right now, I'm
perfectly ready to forego using POP3 (which I can use in Mail anyway)
but would like to be able to use IMAP, if only I could get Eudora to
display the Inbox mailbox, which is available on the IMAP server and
displayed perfectly well in Mail.

This is of course not a life or death issue- it's far more important
than that.
--
Peter

[David Morrison]

> It's hard to avoid the conclusion that there is some problem with using
> Eudora with this exchange server whereas there is none with Mail, and
> that this is a peculiarity of Eudora, not Mail.

Or perhaps Eudora needs some configuration tweaking to work....

> And right now, I'm
> perfectly ready to forego using POP3 (which I can use in Mail anyway)
> but would like to be able to use IMAP, if only I could get Eudora to
> display the Inbox mailbox, which is available on the IMAP server and
> displayed perfectly well in Mail.

Did you try my suggestion from yesterday?

[Peter Ceresole]

David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:

> Did you try my suggestion from yesterday?

Yes, and I was trying to digest it all. However, inspired by the fact
that I sometimes couldn't work out what you meant, I've had another go
through the Eudora settings and in (d'oh!) IMAP, I saw a checkbox for
'Grab top level Inbox with mailbox list'. So I checked it, resynched the
mailbox list and TADA! there it was. I'd never realised that it might
*not* grab the Inbox. I wonder why it might not...

So, problem solved. Simply because there are so many settings, and I'd
never properly gone through the IMAP set, so never realised that that
one was there.

Thank you all for your help- as I said, I'm a total novice with IMAP,
but learning bit by bit.
--
Peter

[John H Meyers]

On 11/28/2012 3:00 AM, Peter Ceresole wrote:

> When I say we 'tried everything', I mean that with the ISP's helpline, I
> checked the port settings, SSL, passwords. With identical settings in
> both, Mail connected immediately to the POP3 server and Eudora timed out
> announcing that it couldn't connect to the POP3 server.

It's just slightly tricky to be absolutely sure
that Apple Mail and Eudora have "identical settings,"
because their user interfaces are very different,
and the very fact of the different results
is a very strong indication that the settings
really aren't equivalent.

Not being able to even "connect," if going by my understanding
of meaning not even getting the standard "greeting response"
of a POP server, the server having to be the first party to "speak"
when any client first connects, is usually due to either
a wrong server name or wrong port number,
and the only two "standard" ports used for POP3
are 110 (when "Alternate Port" isn't specified for SSL)
and 995 (when "Alternate Port" is specified for SSL).

Note, in particular, that there is no way for any POP3 server
to identify the type of client trying to connect to it,
hence no way to discriminate for or against any particular client,
as far as whether it can connect or not at the start of a session.

Using SSL via "Alternate Port" adds an extra layer
to the initial interaction, in that I believe the client side
then "speaks" first, although it "speaks" binary data
having no meaning to people, while trying to establish
the SSL connection even before the first human-readable
conversation begins, right after SSL encryption is set up.

A Eudora log is the usual means for studying exactly what
does occur when trying to connect, which provides something
concrete for more detailed diagnosis of any connection failure.

> For the IMAP service, again with identical settings, Mail connected and
> so did Eudora, but Mail showed the Inbox mailbox while Eudora didn't

> On the ISP's newsgroup, demon.service, there are plenty of complaints
> about the configuration of the new Exchange system, to do with the
> implementation of forwarding and other features that don't affect me
> directly, like SPF, but most users seem to be using it with few
> problems, both with POP3 and IMAP.
>
> It's hard to avoid the conclusion that there is some problem with using
> Eudora with this exchange server whereas there is none with Mail, and
> that this is a peculiarity of Eudora, not Mail.

You can imagine such a conclusion only if you do not know how POP works,
and have not inspected your Eudora log in detail,
but once you do know (and inspect), it will be harder to avoid the conclusion
that your Eudora settings are simply not as correct as you thought,
much the same as you finally found out (below) about your IMAP settings.

> And right now, I'm
> perfectly ready to forego using POP3 (which I can use in Mail anyway)
> but would like to be able to use IMAP, if only I could get Eudora to
> display the Inbox mailbox, which is available on the IMAP server and
> displayed perfectly well in Mail.

> This is of course not a life or death issue -

> it's far more important than that [ ;-) ]

But just afterwards:

> I've had another go
> through the Eudora settings and in (d'oh!) IMAP, I saw a checkbox for
> 'Grab top level Inbox with mailbox list'. So I checked it,
> resynched the mailbox list and TADA! there it was.

Indeed, a "top level Inbox" is often completely independent
of a "mailbox list," as it is on our own combination POP/IMAP server,
where the POP and IMAP Inbox are the same file in path /var/mail,
but any other IMAP mailboxes (and mailbox list itself) are elsewhere,
under a user's "home" directory (if they even have one).

Glad to hear that the IMAP issue is thus solved,
and that Eudora even manages to have no other IMAP issues.

If you want to proceed to solve the POP3 issue,
a slightly trimmed "all bytes" Eudora log would be a good
diagnostic aid (and make sure that it identifies your POP server name,
as well as what port a connection attempt is being made on).

Good Luck!

--

[David Morrison]

> Yes, and I was trying to digest it all. However, inspired by the fact
> that I sometimes couldn't work out what you meant, I've had another go
> through the Eudora settings and in (d'oh!) IMAP, I saw a checkbox for
> 'Grab top level Inbox with mailbox list'. So I checked it, resynched the
> mailbox list and TADA! there it was. I'd never realised that it might
> *not* grab the Inbox. I wonder why it might not...

Ah, I had that checked already.

> So, problem solved. Simply because there are so many settings, and I'd
> never properly gone through the IMAP set, so never realised that that
> one was there.
>
> Thank you all for your help- as I said, I'm a total novice with IMAP,
> but learning bit by bit.

I am too. I did look at it once years ago and it was just too painful.
But when Apple abandoned POP with iCloud, I had to set it up. And now
with iPhones doing mail, it seems as though IMAP - for all its faults -
is the way of the future if you want to access all your mail from
multiple devices.

[Peter Ceresole]

David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:

> > Thank you all for your help- as I said, I'm a total novice with IMAP,
> > but learning bit by bit.
>
> I am too. I did look at it once years ago and it was just too painful.
> But when Apple abandoned POP with iCloud, I had to set it up. And now
> with iPhones doing mail, it seems as though IMAP - for all its faults -
> is the way of the future if you want to access all your mail from
> multiple devices.

Sure. But I don't do mail on a mobile (I like to sit quietly on the top
of the bus and let the world slip by). Text is the extent of my mobile
skills. But at home, Anne and I share the connection, me with an iMac,
her with a MBP. It was easy enough with POP3 and Eudora, because of the
transparency of Eudora's mail filing system. But with Apple dropping
Rosetta, Eudora wasn't so much 'legacy', more 'late'. And the hell with
it; IMAP does seem to work pretty well, even if I have trouble trusting
it although that's more my problem than IMAP's.
--
Peter

[John H Meyers]

On 11/29/2012 3:18 AM, David Morrison wrote:

> When Apple abandoned POP with iCloud, I had to set up IMAP. And now

> with iPhones doing mail, it seems as though IMAP - for all its faults -
> is the way of the future if you want to access all your mail from
> multiple devices.

IMAP and POP are not mutually exclusive possibilities.

Our own mail server offers both, where both POP and IMAP "demons"
share the identical server-side Inbox,
as apparently also do numerous ISPs.

Gmail has also, for several years,
been offering both POP and IMAP access
to the same accounts, and I believe that its rivals
are also playing "catch up" to do the same.

Gmail even has two different POP "modes,"
with what they call "recent mode"
permitting any account to be shared
by multiple clients via POP, just as has always been done,
with conventional ISP servers, via "leaving mail on server."

Gmail's very unconventional "server" emulation
balances its desire to allow an unlimited mail history
to accumulate in the "cloud" vs. the profound strain
which that would otherwise place on both conventional
POP and IMAP servers (and bandwidth, and clients),
via an array of "smarter" options at the remote end.

When it comes to small mobile devices,
which generally still provide far less on-board storage
then desktop computers, IMAP gives them a relief
from otherwise having to depend on remote proxy servers
to fetch POP mail and hold on to it, then provide
something IMAP-like between the proxy and the mobile device,
but this does not, as we have outlined above,
constitute an excuse for the email provider
to refuse to still provide POP access to customers,
as Apple's iCloud now does, particularly if its
"IMAP only" service simultaneously is so miserly
when it comes to imposing low "cloud" storage quotas.

I assume that the real reason for Apple's "IMAP only" cloud email
is simply to force both mobile devices and computers
to present the identical "seamless, universal view,"
even if this is at the expense of reducing desktop computers,
no matter how much data they can actually manage
(in addition to storing on removable volumes
and easily migrating their data to other providers),
to be as limited as if they were pocketable devices,
by offering only limited "cloud" storage,
scaled down to match the capacity of one's pocket,
and also holding them "captive" to their own cloud service,
leaving "data power users" in the lurch.

--

[Kathy Morgan]

Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> as Eudora is
> time-limited on a Mac, being forced to use Mail isn't the hell I feared
> it might be, and gives me a rather more future-proof way ahead. Actually
> Mail is (gulp) rather good.

I recently had to switch to Mail and that was my reaction, too. (Long
story short, I spilled milk into my old MacBook while it was on, so I
got a new MacBook with OS 10.7 that wouldn't run Eudora, so I was forced
to change. The good news--I was able to resurrect the old MacBook by
removing the battery and swishing it about in distilled water to rinse
the milk out, then waiting for several weeks for it to dry thoroughly.
Power management was shot, though, so I don't regret the new Mac, but I
was able to recover all the data.)

One feature that I seriously missed was having the mailbox windows open
for those mailboxes that had new mail. I've pretty much resolved that
by creating a smart mailbox that shows all messages received in the past
two days.

> After all,
> cut and paste between applications works seamlessly on the Mac, so using
> the old Eudora mailbase, and its super-quick Find function, means that
> it's really easy to use it alongside Mail.

You will probably want to use Eudora Cleaner eventually when you upgrade
the system. Run it *before* you do the system upgrade because, like
Eudora, it requires Rosetta.

--
Kathy

[Kathy Morgan]

Peter Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> When I say we 'tried everything', I mean that with the ISP's helpline, I
> checked the port settings, SSL, passwords. With identical settings in
> both, Mail connected immediately to the POP3 server and Eudora timed out
> announcing that it couldn't connect to the POP3 server.

Sorry for being so late coming to this party. If you want to make one
more try at connecting Eudora to the POP3 server, it might be that you
need to adjust the timeout settings, so Eudora will try longer before
timing out. (You need to have the Esoteric Settings plugin installed.)

--
Kathy

[Peter Ceresole]

Kathy Morgan <kmo...@spamcop.net> wrote:

> Sorry for being so late coming to this party.

But I was sure you would eventually- and I was really looking forward to
hearing from you.

> If you want to make one
> more try at connecting Eudora to the POP3 server, it might be that you
> need to adjust the timeout settings, so Eudora will try longer before
> timing out. (You need to have the Esoteric Settings plugin installed.)

I have Esoteric Settings installed, and Eudora tries for *ages* before
giving up. I know it's found the server, because it behaves quite
differently when I have the right port setting (995) as opposed to what
it used to be. I did try everything...

I will try Eudora Mailbox cleaner later. I'm trying to get really
familiar with Mail, though. And I'm not doing badly at all. No good
crying over spilt milk.
--
Peter

[John H Meyers]

On 12/3/2012 1:59 PM, Peter Ceresole wrote:

> I have Esoteric Settings installed, and Eudora tries for *ages* before
> giving up. I know it's found the server, because it behaves quite
> differently when I have the right port setting (995) as opposed to what
> it used to be. I did try everything...

Could you describe whether you did anything using Esoteric Settings
to adjust this connection? For example,
attempting to set the POP port to 995
(instead of selecting "Alternate Port" for SSL)
would be expected not to work.

What does the Eudora log say?

Without a surveillance camera,
all we know is "we wuz robbed,"
but with a complete video,
analogous to a detailed log,
we can pinpoint "who done it,"
also exactly how, possibly even
find out where the loot went and recover it.

Logging instructions for Mac Eudora
http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=437
http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=1546

I would be glad to independently test any server
whose name or IP address is provided. Since setting up
SSL precedes any other exchange of information,
servers can be tested by anyone for SSL issues,
with no need for any account info.

--

[John H Meyers]

On 12/4/2012 9:02 PM, John H Meyers wrote:

Quoting P.C.:

>> I have Esoteric Settings installed.

>> I know it's found the server,
>> because it behaves quite differently
>> when I have the right port setting (995)
>> as opposed to what it used to be.

One of the shortcomings of Eudora
is that if you can see any mention of port 995
in your Eudora settings, then what you are seeing is incorrect ;-)

If you even search the entire PDF manual for port numbers
995, 993, or 465, you'll come up empty-handed each time.

If you search for port numbers 110 or 143, the only matches
will be to page numbers in the manual :)

If you search for port numbers 25 or 587,
you may finally find something besides page numbers containing "25"
despite the misleading presence of several typographical errors,
in which what was supposed to say 587 actually says
either 578 or 597, by mistake, but that mistake
was not repeated every single time,
so it's still possible to find a correct mention of port 587,
which ought to be in the manual, after all, because
it's the only port number to actually appear in the title of a setting :)

As long as Eudora was so popular that ISPs would always include
its quirky way of setting things in special instructions for
the most common mail clients, being quirky didn't hurt,
but as Eudora's popularity declined, user frustration mounted,
as a never-ending stream of both old and new users
was confronted by ISPs saying only to use certain port numbers,
while Eudora is the only client to never mention a port number
(except for 587) anywhere in its settings.

The "Ports & Protocols" settings inserted by the "Esoteric Settings" plugin
turn out, in the case of any SSL-only port number (995, 993, or 465)
to be just a "sand trap" for the unwary to fall into,
because they do not work for those port numbers,
and although some people manage to insert 587 for SMTP and get it to work,
there is no need for this in 6.2.4, since "Use..587" has its own
separate check box for each individual personality, whereas
anything inserted into "Ports & Protocols" affects all personalities,
thus potentially continuing the frustration if one account needs 587
while another still needs port 25.

I've tried for years to suggest "pasting black tape"
over "Ports & Protocols," with about as much success
as suggesting to any Republicans in the USA
a restoration of formerly higher tax rates
(which were accompanied by periods of high prosperity)
for those in high income brackets :)

I do not know, of course, whether P.C. is already doing
what actually properly sets up any of the "SSL-only" ports 995 (POP),
993 (IMAP) or 465 (SMTP), which is to select "Alternate Port"
next to "SSL for POP(995) or IMAP(993) or SMTP(465)"
regardless of "Esoteric.. Ports & Protocols" even being installed.

Egads, is it really true, as the manual says on page 381,
that you can use SSL only in "Sponsored" or "Paid" modes?

If so, please make sure you are in one of those modes,
perhaps via free "Paid" registration info from:
<http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showpost.php?p=50617>

Speaking of "Paid," a dentist (and former model, actress,
and race horse owner) whose father was a bit quirky himself,
gave her two middle names which provided P.A.I.D. as her four initials.

Anyway, we bonded right away -- or actually, only I bonded,
because what I saw her for was to get my teeth bonded,
which must have been a good job, because it lasted
until just a couple of years ago :)

OMG, and so has Pat, who, according to Google,
is still practicing dentistry at the same address in NYC,
and now has even more other occupations:
tv producer, host, pet therapist, writer.

And all the while, all I've ever become is an obsolete Eudora port therapist :)

--

[David Morrison]

> You will probably want to use Eudora Cleaner eventually when you upgrade
> the system. Run it *before* you do the system upgrade because, like
> Eudora, it requires Rosetta.

If you want to, you can run it in a virtual OS X. Strictly speaking, you
need OS X Server, but there are plenty of sites that describe how to
make it work with an ordinary copy of Snow Leopard. Then you can run
Eudora, Mailbox Cleaner, etc for as long as you wish.

I have found a few bugs with both Parallels and VMware. The Parallels
one is more serious in that the cursor disappears when you drag it over
the frontmost Eudora window. I have lodged a support case about this and
they have been looking into it for me.

VMware has its own quirks, but mostly works fine with an OS X 10.6
virtual machine.

For both, Snow Leopard appears to be faster than running it natively on
a Mac of a couple of years ago.

David

[Kathy Morgan]

John H Meyers <jhme...@nomail.invalid> wrote:

> setting up
> SSL precedes any other exchange of information,
> servers can be tested by anyone for SSL issues,
> with no need for any account info.

I didn't know that; that's very useful information.

--
Kathy