System Admin - Perl vs Tcl.
Patrick Finnegan
scripting. Is there any functionality in Perl that is lacking in Tcl
and vice versa?
Phil Ehrens
Of course, Perl has the Tcl event loop too ;^)
Cameron Laird
When people set up these bake-offs, I usually turn
away; it's just too easy for Perl to dominate in
the obvious "check-box" items.
I have particularly strong feelings about this role,
though. In all the "Is {Java,Erlang,PHP,...} better
than {C++,Rexx,,Ada,...} for {Web scripting,COM auto-
mation,...}?" competitions, one of the easiest
correct conclusions to draw is that Tcl is the single
most essential and desirable language for cross-plat-
form system administration. Here's why:
1. Expect is a Tcl extension. Expect is
absolutely crucial for SysAd. Perl
has an Expect.pm--but it's about a
decade (slight exaggeration) behind
the original Expect in its polish.
2. Tk is a Tcl extension. Again, Perl
has Perl/Tk, but the latter has seri-
ous flaws on the Windows side.
3. Tcl glues better than Perl. Speci-
fically, it's a lot easier to teach
newcomers how to manage external
processes with Tcl than with Perl.
Some Perlites will argue this point.
I've been studying it for a long
time. I'm right.
4. Tcl Blend works. The Java/Perl
combinations mostly don't.
5. Tcl has the strongest tradition of
use as a testing language. Is the
pertinence of that to SysAd clear?
6. Naive users take to Tcl at least as
quickly as to Perl.
I don't put too much weight on this
proposition. Season to taste, or,
more specifically, apply as appropri-
ate in your own situation.
In what language did Oracle develop its Oracle Enterprise
Manager sysad tool? Tcl. In what language did IBM develop
its WebSphere Control Program? OK, Patrick, I know you
already know this answer. Neither of these companies
particularly *likes* Tcl; I've talked with PR types with
both, and they're trained to hide Tcl's role. Tcl's
technical virtues in these applications are unmistakeable,
though.
Also, see <URL: http://mini.net/tcl/SystemAdministration >.
--
Cameron Laird <Cam...@Lairds.com>
Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html
Patrick Finnegan
are mainly an NT/java shop but we do have a couple of unix/ingres
boxes and our unix system admin is an Expect advocate. The Tcl syntax
is closer to Java than Perl syntax and has a smaller command set so it
should be easier to learn. If Tcl cannot produce the goods we can
switch to Perl and run inline Tcl if required.
cla...@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<FB1787AA4CEE4C93.11D6C912...@lp.airnews.net>...
Arjen Markus
>
>
> In what language did Oracle develop its Oracle Enterprise
> Manager sysad tool? Tcl. In what language did IBM develop
> its WebSphere Control Program? OK, Patrick, I know you
> already know this answer. Neither of these companies
> particularly *likes* Tcl; I've talked with PR types with
> both, and they're trained to hide Tcl's role. Tcl's
> technical virtues in these applications are unmistakeable,
> though.
>
Why do they hide Tcl's role? Have you any idea?
Regards,
Arjen
Cameron Laird
.
.
'Cause they're businessfolk, rather than engineers.
Briefly, they see no advantage in mentioning Tcl, so
they don't. They push Java *hard*, and talk of other
languages just confuses them and their customers.
Marketing folks have exceedingly busy lives without
having to learn more stuff that doesn't benefit them.
That's how they see Tcl. It's just a confusion and a
distraction.
There are all kinds of fascinating software uses in
big organizations, but they will NOT talk about them
with outsiders (in general). They're out to make
money/fulfill congressional mandate/..., not explain
what interests us.
Cameron Laird
Patrick Finnegan <pfin...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Thanks for your replies. We have decided to go with Tcl for now. We
>are mainly an NT/java shop but we do have a couple of unix/ingres
>boxes and our unix system admin is an Expect advocate. The Tcl syntax
>is closer to Java than Perl syntax and has a smaller command set so it
>should be easier to learn. If Tcl cannot produce the goods we can
>switch to Perl and run inline Tcl if required.
.
.
I salute your judgment. 'Twould be fine with me
if you chose Perl; your reasons for selection of
Tcl are largely sound ones, though.
While I don't agree that Tcl syntax is closer to
Java than Perl's, I think you'll find that your
colleagues *do* have an easier time learning Tcl.
Willingness to consider "polyglottalism"--use of
Perl and Tcl together, for example, with Inline--
is wise. I think you'll find this can pay off
for you.
With your emphasis on NT and Java, I suggest
someone on your team make a point of looking into
the capabilities of Tcl Blend (especially for
quality assurance automation) and the COM exten-
sions (one of which might become standard in an
upcoming 8.4 or 8.5 release). You'll find won-
derful opportunities opening up to you.
Arjen Markus
>
.
> .
> 'Cause they're businessfolk, rather than engineers.
> Briefly, they see no advantage in mentioning Tcl, so
> they don't. They push Java *hard*, and talk of other
> languages just confuses them and their customers.
>
> Marketing folks have exceedingly busy lives without
> having to learn more stuff that doesn't benefit them.
> That's how they see Tcl. It's just a confusion and a
> distraction.
>
> There are all kinds of fascinating software uses in
> big organizations, but they will NOT talk about them
> with outsiders (in general). They're out to make
> money/fulfill congressional mandate/..., not explain
> what interests us.
> --
>
Well, at least it is not something technical!
Regards,
Arjen
Cameron Laird
Arjen Markus <Arjen....@wldelft.nl> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>>
> .
>> .
>> 'Cause they're businessfolk, rather than engineers.
>> Briefly, they see no advantage in mentioning Tcl, so
>> they don't. They push Java *hard*, and talk of other
.
.
>> with outsiders (in general). They're out to make
>> money/fulfill congressional mandate/..., not explain
>> what interests us.
>> --
>>
>
>Well, at least it is not something technical!
.
.
To the best of my knowledge--and remember, all my
sources are "off the record"--Oracle, IBM, Cisco,
AT&T, Boeing, and other major Tcl users have no
particular technical reason for being as quiet as
they are.
Cameron Laird
Arjen Markus <Arjen....@wldelft.nl> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>>
> .
>> .
>> 'Cause they're businessfolk, rather than engineers.
>> Briefly, they see no advantage in mentioning Tcl, so
>> they don't. They push Java *hard*, and talk of other
.
.
>Well, at least it is not something technical!
.
.
And conversely, I should add. When an industrial giant
long identified with, say, Visual Basic, appears to
publicize use of Tcl/Tk, don't think it's on the basis
of a simple technical judgment.
Bruce Hartweg
"Cameron Laird" <cla...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:DB0D3D977EEE056D.A49394F5...@lp.airnews.net...
> In article <3C35B690...@wldelft.nl>,
> Arjen Markus <Arjen....@wldelft.nl> wrote:
> >Cameron Laird wrote:
> >>
> > .
> >> .
> >> 'Cause they're businessfolk, rather than engineers.
> >> Briefly, they see no advantage in mentioning Tcl, so
> >> they don't. They push Java *hard*, and talk of other
> .
> .
> .
> >Well, at least it is not something technical!
> .
> .
> .
> And conversely, I should add. When an industrial giant
> long identified with, say, Visual Basic, appears to
> publicize use of Tcl/Tk, don't think it's on the basis
> of a simple technical judgment.
>
> <URL:
http://cedar.intel.com/cgi-bin/ids.dll/content/content.jsp?cntKey=Generic+Editorial%3a%3aws_tcl&cntType=IDS_EDITORIAL&catCode=BMZ >
> --
>
Cameron - as that link required an account on the intel developer system - could you give a brief summary ?
Bruce
Bob Techentin
>
> Cameron - as that link required an account on the intel developer
system - could you give a brief summary ?
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
This is an article by Cameron, touting Tcl as an excellent lightweight
SOAP and Web programming platform. Nice article. Even includes a
picture of Mr. Laird at the end. :-)
Odd, though, that the Intel registration process doesn't include Tcl in
its list of languages. :-(
Bob
--
Bob Techentin techenti...@mayo.edu
Mayo Foundation (507) 538-5495
200 First St. SW FAX (507) 284-9171
Rochester MN, 55901 USA http://www.mayo.edu/sppdg/
lvi...@yahoo.com
According to Cameron Laird <cla...@starbase.neosoft.com>:
:(especially for
:quality assurance automation) and the COM exten-
:sions (one of which might become standard in an
:upcoming 8.4 or 8.5 release).
This is a really good idea - a package similar to the AppleScript one
for the Macs, right? Something in a seperate namespace and package, but
included with Tcl.
Anyone out there actually working on the TIP for this one? Hopefully
it will have more community support than the nearly dead OO TIP...
--
"I know of vanishingly few people ... who choose to use ksh." "I'm a minority!"
<URL: mailto:lvi...@cas.org> <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/>
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
Allen Flick
Lurking around and just couldn't pass on without commenting on this
one.
IMHO much of this has to do with the dreaded "open source".
Though attitudes appear to be changing, management doesn't like
to use open source software. Customers will show concern as to
"who's going to support it?" and unfortunately, management does
not buy into the "we will" answer. It's so much better for them
to say things like "well, we have purchased 100 licenses with full
support." It's not a real answer but it's the kind of political speech
they are familiar with.
Also, as j.hobbs (i think) once said something like "Tcl folks are
too busy to write books." about the lack of books on the shelves
concerning Tcl.
--
:^) Allen Flick (ALF)
<http://msbc.simplenet.com/quotes/>
Microsoft has done for software what McDonald's did for the hamburger.
Todd Coram
> >Why do they hide Tcl's role? Have you any idea?
> .
> .
> .
> 'Cause they're businessfolk, rather than engineers.
> Briefly, they see no advantage in mentioning Tcl, so
> they don't. They push Java *hard*, and talk of other
> languages just confuses them and their customers.
>
> Marketing folks have exceedingly busy lives without
> having to learn more stuff that doesn't benefit them.
> That's how they see Tcl. It's just a confusion and a
> distraction.
>
> There are all kinds of fascinating software uses in
> big organizations, but they will NOT talk about them
> with outsiders (in general). They're out to make
> money/fulfill congressional mandate/..., not explain
> what interests us.
There is a benefit to the non-celebrity status of Tcl. It isn't
subject to trends and fads. Perl is suffering from this right now.
Once the darling of the web community, Python and Java have stolen its
limelight. This is not to say that there isn't a lot of new Perl work
out there, but now quite often, mentioning Perl as a potential IT tool
is met with management disdain (ugh, its unreadable, what about Python
instead? All the cool kids are doing it).
Whenever I bring up Tcl as a potential tool, there is little opinion
expressed (positive or negative) until I show them what Tcl can do.
Then, its all smiles and nods. I have been able to introduce Tcl into
4 organizations in the past 6 years, because it _doesn't_ have a
marketing buzz. Tcl: Its a tool, not a celebrity.
(To be fair, I have also recommended and inserted Python into several
organizations too! ;-)
-- todd
Joel Rees
> According to Cameron Laird <cla...@starbase.neosoft.com>:
> :(especially for
> :quality assurance automation) and the COM exten-
> :sions (one of which might become standard in an
> :upcoming 8.4 or 8.5 release).
>
> This is a really good idea - a package similar to the AppleScript one
> for the Macs, right? Something in a seperate namespace and package, but
> included with Tcl.
Speaking of Macs, I notice that Tcl/Tk is available for Macs. How well
does it work? How reasonable would it be to develop a teaching tool on
(say) a Mac in Tcl/Tk, hoping to simply recompile for UNIX and
Windows? Would running it on Mac OS X require installing X11?
Joel Rees
Arjen Markus
You do not need to compile scripts - they are (at least in general)
interpreted. Unless you make use of specific commands or are careless
with file names and such, your scripts will run smoothly on Windows,
UNIX and Mac, without any need to do anything special (except for
having to install Tcl/Tk).
If you want an example of a teaching tool, try "TclTutor" (See for
instance: <http://mini.net/tcl/1681.html>)
Regards,
Arjen
Donal K. Fellows
> Anyone out there actually working on the TIP for this one?
No idea. If they are, they've not told me.
> Hopefully
> it will have more community support than the nearly dead OO TIP...
Hah! I've just taken action to get that one moving again...
Donal.
--
[Seen in a discussion about automounters; names omitted to protect the guilty]
A> "I don't know. All I know is that it wasn't there until I tried to use it"
B> "You mean like some guy's cat?"
A> "I didn't mount his cat. The photo's are fake"
lvi...@yahoo.com
According to Donal K. Fellows <fell...@cs.man.ac.uk>:
:lvi...@yahoo.com wrote:
:> Anyone out there actually working on the TIP for this one?
:
:No idea. If they are, they've not told me.
:
:> Hopefully
:> it will have more community support than the nearly dead OO TIP...
:
:Hah! I've just taken action to get that one moving again...
Hurrah! That's wonderful news. Thank you very much Donal.
Ray Johnson
> We are assessing Perl and Tcl for cross platform system admin shell
> scripting. Is there any functionality in Perl that is lacking in Tcl
> and vice versa?
I think thre are two specific features missing. (They are available
as extension but most SysAdmin's are not interested in building thier
own version of Tcl. They use what is installed.) The two features
are:
1) The ability to post to and manipulate SysLog - both locally and
remotely.
2) Built in support for SNMP.
On Windows it is a bit worse. There are additional things missing:
1) Like UNIX - needs support for windows events, syslog & SNMP
2) Expect - it IS a sysadmin tool but it is not readily available on
Windows.
3) Support for COM - unix exposes system admin functions through
utilities which Tcl can manipulate with exec. Windows, however,
exposes system admin functions through COM which Tcl does not support
very well out of the box.
Frankly, Perl and Python both have better *built-in* support for those
areas.
Ray
Jean-Luc Fontaine
> pfin...@ozemail.com.au (Patrick Finnegan) wrote in message news:<88f15abc.02010...@posting.google.com>...
>
>>We are assessing Perl and Tcl for cross platform system admin shell
>>scripting. Is there any functionality in Perl that is lacking in Tcl
>>and vice versa?
>>
>
> I think thre are two specific features missing. (They are available
> as extension but most SysAdmin's are not interested in building thier
> own version of Tcl. They use what is installed.) The two features
> are:
>
> 1) The ability to post to and manipulate SysLog - both locally and
> remotely.
Agreed. I think syslog would be a nice addition to TclX.
Jean-Luc
Jeffrey Hobbs
>
> pfin...@ozemail.com.au (Patrick Finnegan) wrote in message news:<88f15abc.02010...@posting.google.com>...
> > We are assessing Perl and Tcl for cross platform system admin shell
> > scripting. Is there any functionality in Perl that is lacking in Tcl
> > and vice versa?
>
> I think thre are two specific features missing. (They are available
> as extension but most SysAdmin's are not interested in building thier
> own version of Tcl. They use what is installed.) The two features
> are:
> Frankly, Perl and Python both have better *built-in* support for those
> areas.
That's picking hairs, because "built-in" in the only difference.
Tcl has full support for all that you mentioned in well-known
extensions. Tcl has also always been well-known for being a
lighter-weight base distro, so often you have to download the
extensions yourself.
--
Jeff Hobbs The Tcl Guy
Senior Developer http://www.ActiveState.com/
Cameron Laird
? This surprises me. Are you counting Expect.pm, snmpy,
and even Win32 as built-ins? Maybe it would be valuable
to go through these comparisons in detail. Win32, yes, I'll
grant Perl that (finally!), but I truly don't understand
how you regard Expect.pm and others of these as "built-in".
Kurt Wimmer
Perhaps an argument could be made to have different 'BI' distributions, based on area of usage. So there could be:
+ Base BI (possibly ActiveTcl BI or a bit less)
- Common BI (base BI + general extensions for general purpose == ActiveTcl Current BI?)
- SysAd BI (ie: base BI + sysad extensions)
- Telecom BI
- DataManip BI (adds full math, heavy file parsing, perhaps 'conversion' extenstions...)
- Integration BI (Java, Python, Perl, ...)
- Extension BI (ET (still used?), CriTcl, Freewrap [bit different yes, but...])
- more...
I'm sure some of those could be removed or added to and others will definetly have more.
But at least some of the 'larger' ones could be gathered into released BI's. Best as multiple downloads, 'Base BI' +
'SysAd BI' + 'Integration BI' so not replicating 'Base BI' in each.
Kurt
lvi...@yahoo.com
According to Ray Johnson <ra...@best.com>:
:Frankly, Perl and Python both have better *built-in* support for those
:areas.
By built in, I assume you mean that somewhere in the monster tar file
that one initially downloads to build perl and python these functions
are present, right from the start?
I thought most of the Windows stuff was NOT in the source distribution -
that it needed to be downloaded from ActiveState?
Jeff, perhaps some of the useful extensions mentioned by Ray could be
bundled into ActiveTcl ?
Mark Harrison
Saw your post and thought I'd buzz you. I'm in the bay area now...
moved here this summer.
I left AsiaInfo last month and am now working at Pixar.
How goes it with you? Maybe we can meet for lunch sometime.
Cheers,
Mark
leam
> > Why do they hide Tcl's role? Have you any idea?
>
> Lurking around and just couldn't pass on without commenting on this
> one.
>
> IMHO much of this has to do with the dreaded "open source".
I would disagree, because Perl is Open Source.
Personally, I think it's a cycle. Perl comes along for sysadmins, and
they use some of it. Developers have different tools, like Tcl, but
try getting your average Sysadmin to install your favorite toy, er,
tool! So the developers start using perl, and then they like it, and
write lots of code in it and talk about it so that the managers hear
it and then all the jobs reference perl so the developers who knew
better now think they have to know perl, so they code more of it and
then the managers are frantic because it's taking more developers to
maintain all this obfuscation so they create more perl jobs, which
developers see, ad infinitum.
Bryan Oakley
> moved here this summer.
>
> I left AsiaInfo last month and am now working at Pixar.
Ooooohhhhh. Pixar. Do they need any more Tcl programmers? :-)
On a more serious note... is this job tcl related? It'd be nice to add Pixar
to the List O' Companies That Use Tcl.
Don Porter
> Ooooohhhhh. Pixar. Do they need any more Tcl programmers? :-)
>
> On a more serious note... is this job tcl related? It'd be nice to add Pixar
> to the List O' Companies That Use Tcl.
Have we forgotten the 1998 Tcl Conference already?
http://www.usenix.org/events/tcl98/brochure/TechProgram1.html#keynote
--
| Don Porter Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division |
| donald...@nist.gov Information Technology Laboratory |
| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/ NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Jeffrey Hobbs
>
> Allen Flick <allen...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<3C368531...@attbi.com>...
>
> > > Why do they hide Tcl's role? Have you any idea?
> >
> > Lurking around and just couldn't pass on without commenting on this
> > one.
> >
> > IMHO much of this has to do with the dreaded "open source".
>
> I would disagree, because Perl is Open Source.
>
> Personally, I think it's a cycle. Perl comes along for sysadmins, and
> they use some of it. Developers have different tools, like Tcl, but
But ask any of those sysads if they ever got official permission
to use Perl, and I think most in corporate business would say no.
Tcl is more often used at a different level, and thus is more
susceptible to PHBs[1].
--
Jeff Hobbs The Tcl Guy
Senior Developer http://www.ActiveState.com/
[1]: Pointy-Haired Bosses
lvi...@yahoo.com
According to Bryan Oakley <oak...@bardo.clearlight.com>:
:Ooooohhhhh. Pixar. Do they need any more Tcl programmers? :-)
:
:On a more serious note... is this job tcl related? It'd be nice to add Pixar
:to the List O' Companies That Use Tcl.
Michael Johnson of Pixar was a keynote speaker at a Tcl conference a few
years ago. He showed us some of the Tk tools used during A Bug's Life
early production...
Bryan Oakley
news:slrna3ope...@clover.cam.nist.gov...
> Bryan Oakley wrote:
> > Ooooohhhhh. Pixar. Do they need any more Tcl programmers? :-)
> >
> > On a more serious note... is this job tcl related? It'd be nice to add
Pixar
> > to the List O' Companies That Use Tcl.
>
> Have we forgotten the 1998 Tcl Conference already?
I don't know about "we", but I know that "I" did. Thanks for the reminder.
Marty Backe
that Mark is/was responsible for this site)? Will it ever be on-line again? It
doesn't add much to tcltk's credibility that the tcl site referenced many places
on the web has not been reachable for months.
As with Perl, Python, etc, I image many people might try tcltk.com or tcltk.org
as a first guess to get more info regarding the language. Too bad it doesn't
work.
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:19:52 -0600, "Bryan Oakley" <oak...@bardo.clearlight.com>
wrote:
Marty Backe
-------------------------------
mgb...@usa.net
http://www.lucidway.org
David N. Welton
> As with Perl, Python, etc, I image many people might try tcltk.com or tcltk.org
> as a first guess to get more info regarding the language. Too bad it doesn't
> work.
Yep, a pity, but we do have www.tcl-tk.net which I have promised to
the comunity for the 'main' Tcl/Tk site. It should be an URL we can
keep using for the foreseeable future, as it is resistant to changes
in companies.
--
David N. Welton
Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/
leam
> But ask any of those sysads if they ever got official permission
> to use Perl, and I think most in corporate business would say no.
> Tcl is more often used at a different level, and thus is more
> susceptible to PHBs[1].
I can only speak from my personal experience, which is limited, at
best. Perl was noted as being a unified replacement for sed, awk, and
shell. With it you could do work and not have to balance the syntax
and construct differences between languages. It was thus used by
sysadmins (self included) to do quickie work. Since sysadmins can
install stuff, it got put in on the fly and under the radar. Of
course, that also means that a lot of perl code is wrtitten by
un-skilled programmers.
I hadn't heard of Tcl until I got fed up with perl and went looking
for something better. Tk got my attention, Tcl deserved more time, and
expect just blew me away.
I think expect is the best "foot in the sysadmin door". Tk is great
for senior admins to set things up for juniors who can then come up to
speed quicker. Although Tcl can do everything perl can, and more, lots
of folks just haven't seen it.
Places I've worked at have had sysadmins install perl because it was
"cool", but only a few could really use it well. Now the developers
are using it because it's on the system. I think it draws people
because the obfuscation and "magic" re-enforce the specialness of the
programmer, in the programmers own ego. By "doing perl" they can
identify with a known, visible community.
This is not to say that perl does not have it's uses. Nor that the Tcl
community is less. Tcl seems to have become for the elite, without
being elitist. Now all we need to do is encourage others to want to be
elite, too!
Mark Harrison
> Is this why http://www.tcltk.com has been offline for months (I think/thought
> that Mark is/was responsible for this site)? Will it ever be on-line again? It
> doesn't add much to tcltk's credibility that the tcl site referenced many places
> on the web has not been reachable for months.
Yes, the original server went away when AsiaInfo rehosted some
other things. I've been too busy relocating back to the US,
along with switching jobs, etc, to look at it very much.
There is a guy in AsiaInfo who is sponsoring a proposal to
host the site from a server in the US office.
The site is checked in at sourceforge... when it's revived
I hope to:
1. allow multiple projects to be hosted there.
2. get some sites to mirror the content so there's no
single point of failure as there is now.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Mark Harrison work: m...@pixar.com
Studio Tools home: ma...@markharrison.net
Pixar Animation Studios http://www.markharrison.net
Emeryville, CA
Mark Harrison
> On a more serious note... is this job tcl related? It'd be nice to add Pixar
> to the List O' Companies That Use Tcl.
I think I was hired more for my distributed networking experience...
either that or my good looks, you be the judge. :-)
Tcl is definitely in the mix, along with most of the usual
languages. (I'm a newbie here, so I don't know how much
of what we do can be discussed.)
If you recall, Michael "Wave" Johnson gave a great talk a
couple of years ago, talking about how Tcl can be used
in computer animation. Check out his "Wave's World"
thesis at
http://xenia.media.mit.edu/~wave
for some really cool Tcl things.
Also check out some of our product pages, such as
http://www.pixar.com/renderman/artist_tools/tools/alfred.html
See if you can spot the packed widgets.
Cameron Laird
leam <leam...@dowjones.com> wrote:
.
.
.
>I think expect is the best "foot in the sysadmin door". Tk is great
.
.
Worth repeating.
Jeff Hobbs
> 2. get some sites to mirror the content so there's no
> single point of failure as there is now.
I think we can look into mirroring it at the ActiveState Tcl server
(now hosting www.tcl-tk.net, the Tcl Dev Xchange). I'm not sure
how we'd go about making it smoothly operate over port 80, but we
could put it on another port, or as a subdir.
BTW, congrats on the move to Pixar. That's got to be a fun place
to work.
--
Jeff Hobbs The Tcl Guy
Senior Developer http://www.ActiveState.com/
Tcl Support and Productivity Solutions
http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/ASPN_Tcl/
Mark Harrison
> Mark Harrison wrote:
>
>>2. get some sites to mirror the content so there's no
>> single point of failure as there is now.
>>
>
> I think we can look into mirroring it at the ActiveState Tcl server
> (now hosting www.tcl-tk.net, the Tcl Dev Xchange). I'm not sure
> how we'd go about making it smoothly operate over port 80, but we
> could put it on another port, or as a subdir.
That sounds like a good idea. Let's look into this.
> BTW, congrats on the move to Pixar. That's got to be a fun place
> to work.
Thanks... it's been great so far. I'm working on the networking
side of their render farm, which is currently about 1600 CPUs
and growing. Their new studio is fantastic... Steve Jobs personally
oversaw the design as his gift to the company. Drop me a line if
you're in the Bay Area and would like a tour.
Mark