Tcl Ambassador: Jeff Hobbs

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John Ousterhout

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May 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/28/99
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I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is
a new one that we created to raise the level of support Scriptics
provides to the Tcl community. Jeff will work on several projects
related to the open source Tcl community, such as the following:

- Read comp.lang.tcl in detail and participate in discussions.
- Keep the Tcl community informed about what is happening at Scriptics.
- Act as an advocate inside Scriptics for the Tcl community to make
sure we do the things that are most important to the community
- Organize open source projects within the community
- Work closely with people submitting patches and bug reports for Tcl/Tk
to (a) speed up the process of getting patches incorporated into the
core, and (b) improve the quality of patches so that we can more
easily incorporate them
- Carry out various engineering projects to improve the open source
Tcl/Tk core

Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
with the community, but the overall goal of this position is to empower
the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
Scriptics.

Jeff won't start at Scriptics until sometime in late July, so please
don't start bombarding him with email yet. Once he gets started I'm
sure that he'll be very interested in all of your ideas, but first he
has to finish things up in his current job. Please bear with us for
the next couple of months; we'll let you know once Jeff is on-board
here.

Over the last year, our meager resources at Scriptics have kept us
from providing the level of service to the community that we would
have liked. I apologize for the inconvenience that this has caused.
I hope that with Jeff's arrival, and other improvements in our
resources, we'll be able to do much better in the future.
________________________________________________________________________
John Ousterhout 650-210-0102 tel
Chief Executive Officer 650-210-0101 fax
Scriptics Corporation john.ou...@scriptics.com
The Tcl Platform Company http://www.scriptics.com

Cameron Laird

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May 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/28/99
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In article <374EF581...@scriptics.com>,

John Ousterhout <ous...@scriptics.com> wrote:
>I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
>in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is
>a new one that we created to raise the level of support Scriptics
>provides to the Tcl community. Jeff will work on several projects
>related to the open source Tcl community, such as the following:
>
>- Read comp.lang.tcl in detail and participate in discussions.
>- Keep the Tcl community informed about what is happening at Scriptics.
>- Act as an advocate inside Scriptics for the Tcl community to make
> sure we do the things that are most important to the community
>- Organize open source projects within the community
>- Work closely with people submitting patches and bug reports for Tcl/Tk
> to (a) speed up the process of getting patches incorporated into the
> core, and (b) improve the quality of patches so that we can more
> easily incorporate them
>- Carry out various engineering projects to improve the open source
> Tcl/Tk core
>
>Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
>with the community, but the overall goal of this position is to empower
>the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
>Scriptics.
.
.
.
And the beer gardens? This *is* about Jeff's cultural
acument and diplomatic skills, right?

Congrats, all around. I think we've all learned more
in the past year about how important social factors are.
Jeff sounds like the ideal person to mediate between
the work going on within, and outside, Scriptics.
--

Cameron Laird http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html
cla...@NeoSoft.com +1 281 996 8546 FAX

Gawain Lavers

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May 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/28/99
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John Ousterhout wrote:
>
> I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
> in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is

Sounds like good news to me.

Jeffrey Hobbs

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to Cameron Laird
Cameron Laird wrote:

> John Ousterhout <ous...@scriptics.com> wrote:
> >I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
> >in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is
...

> >Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
> >with the community, but the overall goal of this position is to empower
> >the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
> >Scriptics.
> .
> And the beer gardens? This *is* about Jeff's cultural
> acumen and diplomatic skills, right?

You know, I tried to convince John that the best way to go about this
would be to establish a Stammtisch in one of Munich's beautiful beer
gardens (and what beautiful weather we are having at the moment...)
with a wireless net connection and a big sign saying "Tickle Me".

However, he convinced me that I might be a little more effective if
I were in the same time zone (not to mention the resultant lack of
beer fog when working...).

** Jeffrey Hobbs jeff.hobbs @SPAM acm.org **
** I'm really just a Tcl-bot My opinions are MY opinions **

Jeffrey.Hobbs.vcf

Volker Hetzer

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to
John Ousterhout wrote:
>
> I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
> in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is
> a new one that we created to raise the level of support Scriptics
> provides to the Tcl community. Jeff will work on several projects
> related to the open source Tcl community, such as the following:
>
> - Read comp.lang.tcl in detail and participate in discussions.
> - Keep the Tcl community informed about what is happening at Scriptics.
> - Act as an advocate inside Scriptics for the Tcl community to make
> sure we do the things that are most important to the community
> - Organize open source projects within the community
> - Work closely with people submitting patches and bug reports for Tcl/Tk
> to (a) speed up the process of getting patches incorporated into the
> core, and (b) improve the quality of patches so that we can more
> easily incorporate them
> - Carry out various engineering projects to improve the open source
> Tcl/Tk core
>
> Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
> with the community, but the overall goal of this position is to empower
> the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
> Scriptics.
I know, I'm inviting flames, but don't you guys think it a pity to downgrade
him as a figurehead?
And as to "advocating for the community", whom does he get paid by?

Greetings!
Volker

Jeffrey Hobbs

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to Volker Hetzer
Volker Hetzer wrote:
> John Ousterhout wrote:
> > I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
> > in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is
> > a new one that we created to raise the level of support Scriptics
> > provides to the Tcl community. Jeff will work on several projects
> > related to the open source Tcl community, such as the following:
....

> > Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
> > with the community, but the overall goal of this position is to empower
> > the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
> > Scriptics.

> ... don't you guys think it a pity to downgrade
> him as a figurehead?

I'm getting downgraded? That would be a bummer. 'figurehead' has the
connotation that the person isn't an effective player, but rather just
there in body (yeah, most "true" ambassadors fit into this role). I
think many would be disappointed (included myself foremost) if my role
would really be reduced to that of 'figurehead' for Scriptics in the
Tcl community. I plan to take full advantage of the opportunities that
the job affords, which is a plus for both Scriptics and the community.
Which comes to the next q...

> And as to "advocating for the community", whom does he get paid by?

I will be an employee of Scriptics, at Scriptics. My work will be 150%
on and for the Tcl/Tk core. I think the term "Tcl Ambassador" just
comes across a little awkward, because it is hard to encapsulate all
that I will do into one title. I will be part engineering, part general
advocacy, part marketing (Use Tcl!), part management (community events),
etc...

I think this is an interesting step forward for Scriptics, and for the
Tcl community as a whole. Scriptics is pushing forward its investment
in the community and open source side of Tcl. Some will of course ask
why. Well the answer is pretty simple: The better I do at working with
the community to improve the Tcl language in the "best" possible way,
the more people that will want to use or extend the use of Tcl. The
larger the Tcl user base, desto the larger the pool of potential
customers for Scriptics' commercial products and services.

Everyone wins.

As for the title, I am, as always, open to better suggestions.

Jeffrey.Hobbs.vcf

Bruce Stephens

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to
Jeffrey Hobbs <Jeffre...@icn.siemens.de> writes:

> You know, I tried to convince John that the best way to go about
> this would be to establish a Stammtisch in one of Munich's beautiful
> beer gardens (and what beautiful weather we are having at the
> moment...) with a wireless net connection and a big sign saying
> "Tickle Me".

Sounds good. You'd be ideally placed to organise European
conferences, too.

> However, he convinced me that I might be a little more effective if
> I were in the same time zone (not to mention the resultant lack of
> beer fog when working...).

Well, that depends on whose time zone you want to be in. You'd also
be working from, say, 3pm to 11pm or something, which would surely
correspond pretty well to US daytime.

(I hope this new position doesn't threaten tkcon development. While
tkcon overlaps slightly with little bits of TclPro, it's really not a
significant competitor.)

Volker Hetzer

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to
Jeffrey Hobbs wrote:
>
> Volker Hetzer wrote:
> > John Ousterhout wrote:
> > > I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
> > > in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador". The Ambassador position is
> > > a new one that we created to raise the level of support Scriptics
> > > provides to the Tcl community. Jeff will work on several projects
> > > related to the open source Tcl community, such as the following:
> ....
> > > Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
> > > with the community,
I'm not going cynical over evolving roles...

> > > but the overall goal of this position is to empower

nor about empowerment...

> > > the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
> > > Scriptics.

no, I'll be reasonable. That last statement was ok.

> > ... don't you guys think it a pity to downgrade
> > him as a figurehead?
>
> I'm getting downgraded? That would be a bummer. 'figurehead' has the
> connotation that the person isn't an effective player, but rather just
> there in body (yeah, most "true" ambassadors fit into this role).

Ambassador is probably a good and useful job, don't misunderstand me.
(Apart from the name that sounds too familiar to the "presidents
club" thingy in a company you know. I'd certainly try to change it.)

> I
> think many would be disappointed (included myself foremost) if my role
> would really be reduced to that of 'figurehead' for Scriptics in the
> Tcl community.

Worst case: Your job will be to summarize this group and talk to people
about future possibilities without real responsibility. Plus taking the
heat in comp.lang.tcl.
Is THIS the job for the guy who did tktable?
Couldn't they get some PR guy, teach him tcl and let you do something better?

> > And as to "advocating for the community", whom does he get paid by?
>
> I will be an employee of Scriptics, at Scriptics.

Isn't there a conflict of interest?
I mean you are supposed to advocate free SW and at the same time need
your company to make a profit.
How will this work out if scriptics starts to shrink the core (good thing)
and to sell packages (bad thing)?

> My work will be 150%
> on and for the Tcl/Tk core. I think the term "Tcl Ambassador" just
> comes across a little awkward, because it is hard to encapsulate all
> that I will do into one title. I will be part engineering, part general
> advocacy, part marketing (Use Tcl!), part management (community events),
> etc...

Sorry, have you ever read dilbert?
I'd like nothing better than to be wrong, but I feel your talent is wasted
at this position and therefore a loss to us, which is why I posted this.

>
> I think this is an interesting step forward for Scriptics, and for the
> Tcl community as a whole.

To have SOMEBODY at this position, yes.
To have YOU in this position, well, I certainly think you can do it, but I
have the feeling you are a bit overqualified for this. I hope you'll not be
disappointed.
Please don't get me wrong, the choice of career is most certainly yours
and no business of mine. I'm purely arguing for what I think is best for
me as a tcl-user.

> Last Name Hobbs
> First Name Jeffrey
> Version 2.1
How'd you get the version number? :-)

Greetings!
Volker

Disclaimer: Although I work for siemens I do NOT mind him going to scriptics
and wish him everything he needs for being successful there. And anyway, this is no "official" siemens posting.

Cameron Laird

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to
In article <37526772...@icn.siemens.de>,
Jeffrey Hobbs <Jeffre...@icn.siemens.de> wrote:
.
.
.

>Tcl community as a whole. Scriptics is pushing forward its investment
>in the community and open source side of Tcl. Some will of course ask
>why. Well the answer is pretty simple: The better I do at working with
>the community to improve the Tcl language in the "best" possible way,
>the more people that will want to use or extend the use of Tcl. The
>larger the Tcl user base, desto the larger the pool of potential
>customers for Scriptics' commercial products and services.
>
>Everyone wins.
.
.
.
This is a darned good start for an ambassador:
a policy statement that is meaningful, signifi-
cant, and welcome. Hooray!

lvi...@cas.org

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to

According to Bruce Stephens <br...@cenderis.demon.co.uk>:
:(I hope this new position doesn't threaten tkcon development. While

:tkcon overlaps slightly with little bits of TclPro, it's really not a
:significant competitor.)

In fact, the _current_ tkcon seems to be a superset of what ships on Windows
and MacOS for a console window anyways - might be nice to get full tkcon
functionality on all platforms portably...

--
<URL: mailto:lvi...@cas.org> Quote: Saving the world before bedtime.
<*> O- <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/>
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.

John Ousterhout

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to
Volker Hetzer wrote:

You've done an excellent job of analyzing all the things that could
potentially go wrong with this arrangement, but I wish that you had
also considered the upside potential. If this works out right, I think
it will be a fun position for Jeff, a huge help for the Tcl community,
and it will accelerate the evolution of Tcl, which is good for all of
us. If all we had wanted was a PR person to do spin control on the
newsgroup, it would have been silly to hire Jeff, and it would have been
crazy for him to take the job.

As for your conflict-of-interest concerns, there is certainly a tension
between the open source work and our commercial work. We knew that when
we started the company, and it has always been our goal to balance them
in a way that works out well for both. I don't believe that Scriptics
can succeed without a growing and prosperous open source community. We
created the Tcl Ambassador position to strengthen the open source side
of our work, so that we maintain an appropriate balance.

It seems to me that this position could make a big positive difference,
and it's unlikely to hurt anything. I hope you can suspend your
disbelief
long enough to give this a chance to work. Give us until next year's
Tcl Conference and judge us then on the results that Jeff has produced.
I think that the community is going to be pretty happy with the results.

Cameron Laird

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
to
In article <3752D414...@scriptics.com>,
John Ousterhout <ous...@scriptics.com> wrote:
.
.

.
>You've done an excellent job of analyzing all the things that could
>potentially go wrong with this arrangement, but I wish that you had
>also considered the upside potential. If this works out right, I think
>it will be a fun position for Jeff, a huge help for the Tcl community,
>and it will accelerate the evolution of Tcl, which is good for all of
>us. If all we had wanted was a PR person to do spin control on the
>newsgroup, it would have been silly to hire Jeff, and it would have been
>crazy for him to take the job.
>
>As for your conflict-of-interest concerns, there is certainly a tension
>between the open source work and our commercial work. We knew that when
>we started the company, and it has always been our goal to balance them
>in a way that works out well for both. I don't believe that Scriptics
>can succeed without a growing and prosperous open source community. We
>created the Tcl Ambassador position to strengthen the open source side
>of our work, so that we maintain an appropriate balance.
>
>It seems to me that this position could make a big positive difference,
>and it's unlikely to hurt anything. I hope you can suspend your
>disbelief
>long enough to give this a chance to work. Give us until next year's
>Tcl Conference and judge us then on the results that Jeff has produced.
>I think that the community is going to be pretty happy with the results.
.
.
.
Great statement.

The "conflict-of-interest" points sounds to me like
a generalization of the open-source battle we've all
been fighting. The Old Guard don't get how open
source works. Now, I suspect, John's out in front
(along with, say, Ericsson, Digital Creations, Crynwr,
...) at creating new organizations and systems that
put profit and free distribution in co-operation,
rather than competition. There'll be another Old
Guard skeptical about this struggle, too. I'm
simply thrilled to see Scriptics over and over set
up mechanisms that align its interest with those of
the Tcl community at large.

John, do you have explicit criteria beforehand on
the results you expect from Jeff's appointment?

Gerald W. Lester

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May 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/31/99
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Jeffrey Hobbs wrote:
Cameron Laird wrote:
> John Ousterhout  <ous...@scriptics.com> wrote:
> >I'm delighted to announce that Jeff Hobbs will be joining Scriptics
> >in July as the first "Tcl Ambassador".  The Ambassador position is
        ...
> >Jeff's exact role will evolve as we learn more about how to work best
> >with the community, but the overall goal of this position is to empower
> >the Tcl community and improve interactions between the community and
> >Scriptics.
>                         .
> And the beer gardens?  This *is* about Jeff's cultural
> acumen and diplomatic skills, right?

You know, I tried to convince John that the best way to go about this

would be to establish a Stammtisch in one of Munich's beautiful beer
gardens (and what beautiful weather we are having at the moment...)
with a wireless net connection and a big sign saying "Tickle Me".

I think John made a really bad decision here!

From experiences at the various Tcl/Tk Conferences/Workshops, I think the beer gardens are idea for the type of work you are slated to do.

However, he convinced me that I might be a little more effective if
I were in the same time zone (not to mention the resultant lack of
beer fog when working...).

The fog might help sometimes!  As to the time zone, with Tcl/Tk being accepted world wide I'm not sure that is an issue!  but it will be nice to have you back in the US (makes it easier to buy those beers).

**  Jeffrey Hobbs                jeff.hobbs @SPAM acm.org     **
**  I'm really just a Tcl-bot    My opinions are MY opinions  **

A big congratulations!

--
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Gerald W. Lester               | "The man who fights for his ideals is |
| gerald...@bellsouth.net    |  the man who is alive." -- Cervantes  |
|               Webmaster for http://www.mtolive-lcms.org                |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
 

Volker Hetzer

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Jun 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/1/99
to
John Ousterhout wrote:
> You've done an excellent job of analyzing all the things that could
> potentially go wrong with this arrangement,
Thanks for the flowers :-)

> but I wish that you had also considered the upside potential.

Oh yes, the potential is there. Let's see how that evolutionary job
description works out. (Not joking.)


> If all we had wanted was a PR person to do spin control on the
> newsgroup, it would have been silly to hire Jeff,

Which was the reason for my posting.

> and it would have been crazy for him to take the job.

I agree and hope that Jeff is right.

> [...] I don't believe that Scriptics


> can succeed without a growing and prosperous open source community.

Same here.

> We
> created the Tcl Ambassador position to strengthen the open source side
> of our work, so that we maintain an appropriate balance.

Sounds interesting. Since this problem is common, how DOES one solve it?
I mean, it's not that Jeff gets paid by the FSF or the government or is
some kind of independent auditor.
Does he work by trying to convince people or will he have authority over
an open source budget or something?


> It seems to me that this position could make a big positive difference,
> and it's unlikely to hurt anything.

I hope it won't hurt tktable nor the tkconsole.
And, of course Jeff going to you means another developer going to a company
making money in a field he used to work for fun/reputation (and yes,
for free).

> I hope you can suspend your disbelief long enough to give this a chance to
> work.

I just held out my opinion for consideration...
After all, Jeff likes it, you like it, and nobody but me complained :-)

> Give us until next year's
> Tcl Conference and judge us then on the results that Jeff has produced.

Oh certainly.

> I think that the community is going to be pretty happy with the results.

Dividing the bears fur already? :-)

Greetings!
Volker

Jeffrey Hobbs

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Jun 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/1/99
to
Volker Hetzer wrote:
> John Ousterhout wrote:
> > It seems to me that this position could make a big positive difference,
> > and it's unlikely to hurt anything.

> I hope it won't hurt tktable nor the tkconsole.

The works that I have contributed will continue to be developed,
perhaps even in a more consistent way than has been in the past,
and will continue to be free.

Do take note though that for all the contributions I currently
make to the Tcl community, I have had a full time job on the side
(OK, full time in Germany isn't the same as it is in the States),
and my managers haven't ever complained about the results (usually,
quite the opposite). When I join Scriptics, *all* my efforts will
be focused on improving Tcl...

> And, of course Jeff going to you means another developer going to a company
> making money in a field he used to work for fun/reputation (and yes,
> for free).

All the better, I think. A hobby of mine was to help make Tcl the
best possible scripting language. Now it will be my job (that means
I get paid for it). Too bad you can't see the smile on my face right
now. Who says that work can't be fun? OK, I know too many who would
think that, but they won't have my job (unlucky them).

Jeffrey.Hobbs.vcf

Phil

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Jun 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/1/99
to
Jeffrey Hobbs <Jeffre...@icn.siemens.de> wrote:
>Do take note though that for all the contributions I currently
>make to the Tcl community, I have had a full time job on the side
>(OK, full time in Germany isn't the same as it is in the States),
>and my managers haven't ever complained about the results (usually,
>quite the opposite). When I join Scriptics, *all* my efforts will
>be focused on improving Tcl...

Jeff, I've always been amazed at the care and thoroughness of
your responses on comp.lang.tcl. I think Scriptics is making a
great choice.

Now, if you and Dr.O were to conspire on a book...

Phil
--
Phil Ehrens <peh...@ligo.caltech.edu>| Fun stuff:
The LIGO Laboratory, MS 18-34 | http://www.ralphmag.org
California Institute of Technology | http://www.yellow5.com
1200 East California Blvd. | ftp://ftp.no.pgpi.com/pub/pgp
Pasadena, CA 91125 USA | http://slashdot.org
Phone:(626)395-8518 Fax:(626)793-9744 | http://freshmeat.net

Lars E. Mobæk

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Jun 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/1/99
to
Phil wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Hobbs <Jeffre...@icn.siemens.de> wrote:
> >Do take note though that for all the contributions I currently
> >make to the Tcl community, I have had a full time job on the side
> >(OK, full time in Germany isn't the same as it is in the States),
> >and my managers haven't ever complained about the results (usually,
> >quite the opposite). When I join Scriptics, *all* my efforts will
> >be focused on improving Tcl...
>
> Jeff, I've always been amazed at the care and thoroughness of
> your responses on comp.lang.tcl. I think Scriptics is making a
> great choice.
>
> Now, if you and Dr.O were to conspire on a book...
>
> Phil

I certainly agree.
I believe the community needs it.
Maybe Scriptics don't want to undermine other
people's book-projects, but "Dr.O"'s book is
now so old that I can't even remember its name.
My guess is that a book would generate a lot of income.

Regards,
Lars Eirik

Robin Becker

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Jun 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/1/99
to
In article <3753CCB...@icn.siemens.de>, Jeffrey Hobbs
<Jeffre...@icn.siemens.de> writes

...
>> And, of course Jeff going to you means another developer going to a company
>> making money in a field he used to work for fun/reputation (and yes,
>> for free).
>
>All the better, I think. A hobby of mine was to help make Tcl the
>best possible scripting language. Now it will be my job (that means
>I get paid for it). Too bad you can't see the smile on my face right
>now. Who says that work can't be fun? OK, I know too many who would
>think that, but they won't have my job (unlucky them).
I sure hope that getting paid to have fun doesn't turn the fun into
work. I've been made ill over the last few years by the evil finance
industry doing things I used to really enjoy.

>** Jeffrey Hobbs jeff.hobbs @SPAM acm.org **
>** I'm really just a Tcl-bot My opinions are MY opinions **
>[ A MIME text / x-vcard part was included here. ]
>

--
Robin Becker

Volker Hetzer

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
Lars E. Mobæk wrote:

>
> Phil wrote:
> > Now, if you and Dr.O were to conspire on a book...
> >
> > Phil
>
> I certainly agree.
> I believe the community needs it.
> Maybe Scriptics don't want to undermine other
> people's book-projects, but "Dr.O"'s book is
> now so old that I can't even remember its name.
> My guess is that a book would generate a lot of income.

I fear a book would probably not be able to keep up with the development of Tcl.
What about a commercial online magazine?
A bit like a collection of howto's but being properly edited and (most importantly) maintained.

Greetings!
Voolker

Volker Hetzer

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
Robin Becker wrote:
>
> In article <3753CCB...@icn.siemens.de>, Jeffrey Hobbs
> <Jeffre...@icn.siemens.de> writes
> ...
> >> And, of course Jeff going to you means another developer going to a company
> >> making money in a field he used to work for fun/reputation (and yes,
> >> for free).
> >
> >All the better, I think. A hobby of mine was to help make Tcl the
> >best possible scripting language. Now it will be my job (that means
> >I get paid for it). Too bad you can't see the smile on my face right
> >now. Who says that work can't be fun? OK, I know too many who would
> >think that, but they won't have my job (unlucky them).
> I sure hope that getting paid to have fun doesn't turn the fun into
> work. I've been made ill over the last few years by the evil finance
> industry doing things I used to really enjoy.
The trick is to get a hobby radically different from the job.
Like brewing beer or something. :-)

Greetings!
Volker

Cameron Laird

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
In article <3754DEA7...@abg1.siemens.de>,
Volker Hetzer <volker...@abg1.siemens.de> wrote:
.
.

.
>What about a commercial online magazine?
>A bit like a collection of howto's but being properly edited and (most im=
>portantly) maintained.
.
.
.
I guess you're saying that you welcome the opportunity
to support <URL:http://www.eda.bg/~sto/journal/>.

Volker Hetzer

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
Cameron Laird wrote:
>
> In article <3754DEA7...@abg1.siemens.de>,
> Volker Hetzer <volker...@abg1.siemens.de> wrote:
> .
> .
> .
> >What about a commercial online magazine?
> >A bit like a collection of howto's but being properly edited and (most im=
> >portantly) maintained.
> .
> .
> .
> I guess you're saying that you welcome the opportunity
> to support <URL:http://www.eda.bg/~sto/journal/>.

I had a look at it. It was ok, but not exactly what I had in mind.
Perhaps I should be a bit clearer.
I was not looking for a magazine where everybody can just pop in and explain his
last feature. I've got comp.lang.tcl and comp.lang.tcl.announce for that.
The purpose of such a scriptics journal should be to give up to date
information on the code and packages that are the responsibility of scriptics.

Like a couple of articles about the stub package, a message that prevoius
articles about getting shared libraries to work are no longer "in" or supported,
several articles about the object interface, the thread interface once it
is ready, "definite" answers to selected questions (that I can cite later on),...

Perhaps the internet RFC's and standards are a better example. They have a definite
status, a lifetime and updates and you always know whether the information contained
therein is still valid.

I'm not looking for free info here, but rather for some form of semi-commercial
support. More than just the manpages, less than a support contract.
I would rather pay for that than for a book that is out of date as soon as
it is available.

A free contribution is nice, but once the author stops bothering about it
I, as a user am in a fix. I can't contact the author, I don't know whether
he has officially abandoned it and I certainly don't know whether it will
work with the next release of Tcl or perhaps magically come back to life
once the author changes his mind.
I can't change that for packages I get from somewhere, but scriptics has
the chance to provide more and better info for its own code.

Greetings!
Volker

Bob Techentin

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
Volker Hetzer wrote:
> The trick is to get a hobby radically different from the job.
> Like brewing beer or something. :-)
>

Or just get a job brewing beer ...

--
Bob Techentin techenti...@mayo.edu
Mayo Foundation (507) 284-2702
Rochester MN, 55905 USA http://www.mayo.edu/sppdg/sppdg_home_page.html

Robin Becker

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
In article <3755240C...@mayo.edu>, Bob Techentin
<techenti...@mayo.edu> writes

>Volker Hetzer wrote:
>> The trick is to get a hobby radically different from the job.
>> Like brewing beer or something. :-)
>>
>
>Or just get a job brewing beer ...
drinking ?
>

--
Robin Becker

Mitch Gorman

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Jun 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/2/99
to
Bob Techentin wrote:

> Volker Hetzer wrote:
> > The trick is to get a hobby radically different from the job.
> > Like brewing beer or something. :-)
> >
>
> Or just get a job brewing beer ...

Or just get beer.

--
Mitch Gorman
gor...@sportsline.com
mi...@speedlimit35.com
http://www.speedlimit35.com/

laurent....@cgi.ca

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
to
Robin Becker <ro...@jessikat.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Or just get a job brewing beer ...
> drinking ?

You know how that would tunr out: you'd get quotas, you have to drink so many
beers a day, no more. Plus you aren't allowed to drink whatever beer you want.
You gots to drink the beer they tell you to. And you have to fill out
paperwork after every beer, etc., etc. ad nauseum. It'd be enough to make you
turn to milk.


--
Penguin Power! Nothing I say reflects the views of my employer

Laurent Duperval mailto:laurent....@cgi.ca
CGI - FWFM Project Phone: (514) 391-9523

Donal K. Fellows

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Jun 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/3/99
to
In article <3752A0E0...@abg1.siemens.de>,
Volker Hetzer <volker...@abg1.siemens.de> wrote:

> Jeffrey Hobbs wrote:
>> Last Name Hobbs
>> First Name Jeffrey
>> Version 2.1
> How'd you get the version number? :-)

There is a long history of names with version numbers. Royalty has
been doing it for ages. I would like to know what the minor version
number means though... :^)

Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ fell...@cs.man.ac.uk
-- The small advantage of not having California being part of my country would
be overweighed by having California as a heavily-armed rabid weasel on our
borders. -- David Parsons <o r c @ p e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s>

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