Summer of Code 2008

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Heow

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Mar 26, 2008, 11:05:26 AM3/26/08
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Guys,

LispNYC is an official Google Summer of Code 2008 mentoring
organization and is now accepting proposals for anything involving
Lisp-based technology:

http://lispnyc.org/soc.clp

This is an exciting year as we already have non-Google funding offers
for projects. Check out the ideas, toss in your own and feel free to
participate.

Thanks,

- Heow

Heow

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Mar 26, 2008, 11:05:28 AM3/26/08
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Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

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Mar 27, 2008, 6:41:51 AM3/27/08
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> From: Heow <heowb...@gmail.com>
> Guys,

What about the gals??? (Ellen Lewis/Golden might be reading this thread.)

> LispNYC is an official Google Summer of Code 2008 mentoring
> organization and is now accepting proposals for anything involving
> Lisp-based technology:
> http://lispnyc.org/soc.clp

I have all sorts of ideas for useful/valuable Web-based services,
using a mix of PHP and Common Lisp as appropriate. But I've been
unable to find anyone else interested in my ideas, so I haven't
been able to get any funding for implementing my ideas.

* Lexicons First-Class Global Lexical Environments for Common Lisp.
Mentorship and sponsoring by Ron Garret.
Hey Ron, congratulations in not only stirring up interest here in
c.l.l but getting the number one spot in lispnyc!!

* cl-typesetting: Improved math typesetting. Add ability for
cl-typesetting to handle mathematics using Knuth's algorithms in
TeX Requires knowledge of TeX/LaTeX and typesetting. Difficulty
level 4
It's sad that TeX is still advertised as the state of art in math
typesetting, when in 1975, *before* TeX, I created a better way to
lay out math in MRPP3 (using what I called "overlays", named after
clear-plastic overlays stacked on top of each other, used with
overhead projectors, basically transparent sections of text and/or
graphics which can be nested into larger objects, much as panels
are nested in Java awt/swing except that MRPP3 kept track of the
measurements of each overlay/panel in a bottom-up methodology so
that the toplevel overlays could then be printed correctly within
flowing text). Too bad Knuth didn't collaborate with me to combine
my "overlays" with his finely-tuned font&kerning to get something
both easy to use (like MRPP3) and locally pretty (like TeX). Note
that MacSyma implemented something similar to a subset of MRPP3 in
laying out 2-d mathprinting. Later (around 1987) I ported MRPP3 to
Lisp, whereupon it became MRPP4, used to display formulas in CAI
Calculus.

* Write an interpreter or compiler for the latest version of
Javascript. Integrate it into the Closure web browser.
Hey, that's something *I* have on *my* list of things to do if
anybody ever shows interest. In particular, the Lisp emulator for
JavaScript would run in VT100 full-screen-stdio mode on Unix just
as well as it runs on native GUI such as MS-Windows or Macintosh,
unlike regular JavaScript in MS-InternetExplorer and
Mozilla-FireFox which runs *only* on native GUI.

* Write a Common Lisp plugin for Firefox, so that Lisp can be used
instead of Javascript for client-side scripting. Difficulty level
4.
I'd like that done too! Of course it would run on VT100 too if I
had my say about it.

* Storage engine for various databases. The Idea would be to produce
a lib that is incorporated into other projects. to handle
efficient storage on disk of data.
Efficient in what way? Normally for efficient multi-user access, we
use a relational database such as MySQL or MS-Access, and connect
to it from Java or PHP or some other language.

Mentors
Sign up with Google and you'll also be added to the mentor
discuss-list.
I'd be glad to mentor some student, if he/she would be working on
something I want to be accomplished, such as the items I mentionned
above. Let me click on the link and see if I'm allowed to offer to
mentor...
Google Summer of Code Mentor Organization Participant Agreement
IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ THIS PARTICIPANT AGREEMENT CAREFULLY AND
COMPLETELY BEFORE SUBMITTING YOUR APPLICATION FOR GOOGLE SUMMER OF ...
Ugh!!! One huge run-on paragraph of legalese, no paragraph or
section breaks, no line breaks except running line-overflow.
Section numbers right in the middle of a line whereever they
randomly occur, such as:
form as applicable. You will be given the appropriate form and
instructions for sending the completed document to Google as part of
the Application process. 1.6 Release of Claims. Independent of any
consideration accruing to you hereunder, you hereby release Google
from, and agree not to sue Google for, any claim or cause of action,
See that 1.6 right in the middle of the line?
publicity or personality, or any other claim or cause of action based
on or related to your participation in the Google Summer of Code
Program. 1.7 No Obligation to Use. Google is not obligated to make any
use of any code, or to exercise any of the rights granted to Google by
this Agreement. 2. MENTOR ORGANIZATION OBLIGATIONS 2.1 The Mentor
Organization agrees: (a) To provide a publicly published list of
project ideas that participating students will choose a project from
to work on for the duration of the Program (b) To make available a
See a mix of toplevel (2.) mid-level (1.7, 2.1) and low-level (a, b)
headings all flowing in that huge paragraph instead of stood out at
left margin at various levels of indentation?

(By clicking the button below, you agree to the above and to the Terms
of Service)
I agree
<http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/tos.html>
"Mentor Organizations" are defined as individuals, groups,
organizations and/or businesses engaged in the development and
distribution of free and/or open source software. ...
...
6. To make available alternate mentor or mentors ready to take over
for the aforementioned Mentor(s) in the event s/he is unable to
continue providing guidance to the accepted student applicant;
I have a problem: If an *individual* may define him/herself as a
"Mentor Organization", but that *individual* later becomes unable
to continue providing guidance, how can that *individual* be
expected to **make** some *other* person take over that role as
mentor??

Organizations based in Iran, Syria, Cuba, Sudan, North Korea and
Myanmar (Burma), with whom we are prohibited by U.S. law from engaging
in commerce, are ineligible to participate.
Hey, Myanmar has gotten on the no-commerce list, as a result of
recent tortuing of their citizens? This is good news, that our
goverment has taken that action! I didn't know it until just now!

Link that you currently have selected
Linkname: I agree
Method: POST
Enctype: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
Action: http://code.google.com/soc/mentor.html

Please sign in in order to use the Mentoring interface.
Linkname: sign in
URL:
http://www.google.com/accounts/Login?continue=http://code.googl
e.com/soc/mentor.html&followup=http://code.google.com/soc/mento
r.html
So it appears I won't be allowed to sign up as a mentor unless and
until I reveal to Google one of my e-mail addresses, at which point
Google will sell my e-mail address to spammers who will flood that
e-mail address with spam so that later if Google Lisp managers or
my student (whom I'm mentoring) send me e-mail I won't see it
because it'll be mixed with tens of thousands of spam, like this:
Folder Name Messages Unread Space Used
Inbox 11 11 245k
Bulk Mail 15 15 60k
(above all spam that arrived within the past 19 hours, below all older spam)
Bulk-future 2151 2132 6011k
Bulk-past 54 36 390k
Bulk-unsub 241 231 1512k
Bulk43 1976 1974 16640k
Bulk46 812 809 6846k
Bulk51 1600 1597 11887k
Bulk52 1884 1882 9976k
Bulk53 1661 1654 9665k
Bulk54 1744 1707 12439k
Bulk55 1731 1681 10513k
Bulk56 1769 1745 10566k
Bulk57 1673 1660 10814k
Bulk61 1374 1363 7112k
Bulk63 1706 1672 15249k
Bulk66 812 801 4757k
Bulk67 1565 1558 8783k
Bulk6B 1140 1136 10442k
Bulk71 1523 1511 12520k
Bulk72 734 722 6554k
Bulk73 1508 1453 10800k
Bulk74 1270 1228 6253k
Bulk75 1898 1872 9188k
Bulk76 2023 2007 9515k
Bulk77 1997 1985 13615k
Bulk78 2052 2047 11986k
Bulk81 1971 1958 11651k
Bulk82 2043 2039 12499k
Bulk83 671 671 3156k
City2-IrvineCa 118 116 648k
City2-LathropCa 21 20 109k
City2-LongBeachCa 121 117 1230k
City2-LosAngelesCA 603 588 6424k
City2-NewportBeachCa 5 3 36k
City2-SanDiegoCa 701 695 4780k
City2-SantaMonicaCA 214 212 1956k
City2-TracyCa 50 46 431k
City2-WoodlandHillsCa 171 170 618k
City4-Az 287 265 1582k
City4-CoColoradoSprings 75 75 464k
City4-CoWestminster 968 963 2237k
City4-NvLasVegas 3815 3792 11359k
City4-Tx 264 257 1849k
City4-WyCheyenne 871 862 4389k
City5-CtHamden 6 5 64k
City5-De 211 203 1070k
City5-Fl 1916 1879 8694k
City5-GaNorcross 22 16 1207k
City5-IlNorthbrook 5 4 38k
City5-InIndianapolis 68 67 421k
City5-MaChelmsford 1 0 5k
City5-MnMinnetonka 76 75 334k
City5-NdBismarck 33 32 105k
City5-NjJerseyCity 13 12 113k
City5-Ny 867 856 3869k
City5-OhCincinnati 76 69 619k
City5-PaEmmaus 12 11 77k
City5-WvHuntington 159 158 972k
City6-ThornhillOn 166 163 554k
City6-VancouverBc 384 381 940k
InMonster 153 127 569k
K-Careerbuilder 232 200 2910k
SK-1001Postcards 2 1 7k
SK-Activation 394 391 2238k
SK-Advertisement 1819 1812 8878k
SK-AgemoNetwork 9 7 28k
SK-Blockbuster 53 52 755k
SK-Capitalone 16 0 309k
SK-Casino 440 432 1670k
SK-Emma 106 91 899k
SK-Erection 213 210 493k
SK-Erotic 42 40 203k
SK-Ezine 5 3 104k
SK-Financing 383 375 1866k
SK-Fragrances 24 24 163k
SK-Fuck 177 172 1038k
SK-Giveaway 1092 1086 4512k
SK-HomeEquityLoan 5 5 13k
SK-Hoodia 293 290 1975k
SK-Insurance 883 870 5582k
SK-Iphone 93 92 471k
SK-JCPenney 35 34 114k
SK-Latinas 23 22 65k
SK-LegalRxMedications 44 30 83k
SK-Lottery 1044 978 7697k
SK-ManXl 157 153 2344k
SK-Medication 113 111 415k
SK-NoExperienceNecessary 96 92 769k
SK-Pdf 218 206 5889k
SK-Pictures 199 199 845k
SK-Podcasts 8 7 165k
SK-PrematureEjaculation 125 122 216k
SK-Removal 210 205 983k
SK-RepublicanNationalCommittee 115 105 1467k
SK-SecretShopper 192 188 671k
SK-SecurityPatch 732 699 107858k
SK-SingleAsianLadies 14 12 44k
SK-StudentLoans 169 168 938k
SK-Timeshare 319 318 646k
SK-Vistaprint 178 176 1000k
SK-Wines 75 74 408k
SK-eBay 1080 1057 8437k
SK-eHarmony 57 57 243k
SKK-0EM 314 303 2475k
SKK-Bank-Phish 281 249 1947k
SKK-Christ 2754 2681 19965k
SKK-Diploma 326 311 1843k
SKK-GrowGrass 131 129 403k
SKK-Penis 1071 1039 2322k
SKK-Pharmacy 1846 1802 7470k
SKK-Replica 1311 1262 4969k
SKK-SecretLover 252 247 1590k
SKK-Tobacco 691 687 4886k
SX-BadAdr 4 0 17k
SX-DnsHang 1 0 3k
Spam-empgib 677 648 2530k
Spam-empty 13 0 49k
Spam-gibberish 24 0 405k
Spam1TW 401 393 1999k
Spam419 463 417 3094k
SpamAim 2 1 20k
SpamCanSpam 286 286 1041k
SpamChrist 88 86 781k
SpamCollege 275 269 1462k
SpamConfirm 465 462 1826k
SpamDataex 42 40 182k
SpamDrugs 158 130 496k
SpamForLang 263 243 1690k
SpamGiftCard 6379 6347 24525k
SpamInvest 416 406 2078k
SpamKeepLegal 1 1 35k
SpamLinkBounce 15 11 622k
SpamLoan 2977 2944 9455k
SpamLottery 164 159 679k
SpamMS 58 57 1091k
SpamMees 4823 4799 20738k
SpamMystery 4 0 120k
SpamNewCar 1 0 3k
SpamNutrisystem 3 3 26k
SpamObama 54 32 480k
SpamPaypal 128 124 673k
SpamPhish 147 132 861k
SpamPyramid 8 7 35k
SpamResume 2 0 5k
SpamSecurity 1056 1014 9217k
SpamSex 1280 1213 7891k
SpamSingapore 473 469 1393k
SpamSmoking 177 177 892k
SpamSoftware 136 133 1677k
SpamSpam 206 201 1137k
SpamSurvey 1110 1106 4688k
SpamTmobile 17 16 59k
SpamUrgent 253 237 1247k
SplatAmerica 10 4 1423k
SplatBigfoot 6 2 714k
SplatFreemail 13 10 1852k
SplatMicrosoft 18 14 2564k
SplatNetmail 20 12 2846k
SplatPuremail 19 14 2704k
SplatRocketmail 24 20 3276k
Splatter 467 404 61430k
Sue2004Ipod 40 40 152k
Sue2005Ipod 709 698 2296k
SueNewportBeach 127 123 1144k
SueNoCostG 3 0 15k
SueProdTest4 42 0 129k
SueProdTest5 113 101 351k
ToComplain 146 136 3168k
^^^^ (what's grand total in that column?)
Exercise for any Lisp newbie: Write a program to parse that
columnar layout, convert each string decimal integer in that marked
column to actual integer, add the integers from that column, then
convert total back to decimal string for output.
(No fair writing the program in FORTRAN or COBOL where parsing
columnar format would be trivial. It's almost trivial in Common Lisp.)

Frank Buss

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Mar 27, 2008, 7:03:04 AM3/27/08
to
Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t wrote:

> I'd be glad to mentor some student, if he/she would be working on
> something I want to be accomplished, such as the items I mentionned
> above. Let me click on the link and see if I'm allowed to offer to
> mentor...

I hope no one will work with you, because would be really a pain if you
have VT100 access to the internet, only (especially if you mentor the
Firefox plugin or other GUI related projects).

--
Frank Buss, f...@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

Ludovic Courtès

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Mar 27, 2008, 9:10:54 AM3/27/08
to
Hi,

rem...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) writes:

> It's sad that TeX is still advertised as the state of art in math
> typesetting, when in 1975, *before* TeX, I created a better way to lay

> out math in MRPP3 [...] Too bad Knuth didn't collaborate with me to


> combine my "overlays" with his finely-tuned font&kerning to get
> something both easy to use (like MRPP3) and locally pretty (like TeX).

Any links to code or papers regarding MRPP{3,4}?

Thanks,
Ludovic.

C Y

unread,
Mar 28, 2008, 8:27:50 AM3/28/08
to
On Mar 27, 9:10 am, l...@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:
> Hi,

Second that request - coming up dry on searches.

CY

Pascal J. Bourguignon

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Mar 28, 2008, 11:31:03 AM3/28/08
to
C Y <smust...@yahoo.com> writes:

Yes, that may happen with stuff developped before the web. Oldies
better put their stuff on the web soon, or they'll be forgotten
forever. (But perhaps by some strange archeologist who would still go
to physical "libraries"...).


--
__Pascal Bourguignon__

Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

unread,
Mar 28, 2008, 6:43:08 PM3/28/08
to
> From: l...@gnu.org (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?=)

> Any links to code or papers regarding MRPP{3,4}?

The code for MRPP3 was DEC PDP-10 assembly language (FAIL,
developed at Stanford AI Lab, better assembler than MACRO which was
developed by DEC). It ran on WAITS, the SU-AI machine in the D.C.
Powers building. It did WAITS I/O directed to the XGP (Xerox
Graphics Printer). If you have a PDP-10 + WAITS emulator plus XGP
emulator, I could show you the code if I still have it.

It used explicit nested macros following the structure of
mathematical parse trees to generate the bottom-up code to actually
generate the nested overlays. For example, if there was a macro for
generating a sum, and a macro for generating a product, you'd nest
the calls in the natural way as if function calls $!plus(5
$!product(x y)), and the product macro would expand into code for
building the x and y overlays the combining them into the product
overlay with a gensymmed name, and the plus macro would expand into
code for building the 5 overlay and combining it with the
previously-created product overlay. These math macros were the work
of Bill Gosper, after I built the engine to handle overlays and
nested macros. Bill also wrote a utility to convert internal
MacSyma structures (embedded in MacLISP, with funny-named symbols
and funny-named symbols in first-element position, different from
the usual Lisp operators for arithmetic) into the nested-macro
notation needed by his MRPP3 macros.

The code for MRPP4 was PSL (Portable Standard Lisp). I forget which
output devices it handled. (Later my boss insisted I parameterize
the device-control part of the program to allow it to be configured
dynamically for multiple output devices, yielding MRPP5, but under
time pressure and with no inspiration how to do it, and my boss not
available for design-talk, it came out a horrible mess, so I don't
advertise that edition of the series.)

All internal math expressions were basically in REDUCE format, i.e.
nested lists that if EVALuated would actually compute the result
numerically (except for functional operators such as
differentiation), i.e. exactly (PLUS 5 (TIMES X Y)). A math-printer
traversed these nested lists just the way that PRINT and
PRITTYPRINT would except the algorithm was multi-pass: First the
Lisp/REDUCE expressions were converted to nested-overlay
expressions, then the nested overlay structure was flattened to a
single-layer of <offsets text> tuples, then a charcter array of
sufficient size was allocated and all the pieces of text were
copied into appropriate places respecting their offset within that
array, then the array was printed by rows. (Something like that
anyway.) For output devices where a fixed-pitch character array
wasn't appropriate, compiling REDUCE expressions to nested overlays
was almost the same, and flattening might have been the same, but
output was done directly using random access on the IBM 2260(?) CRT
on VM/CMS or the window system 'X' on Unix.

I've wanted to translate MRPP4 to Common Lisp and have it use ASCII
character-array mode feeding into a <pre>...</pre> section of HTML,
but never got around to it because nobody ever showed any interest
and no funding was available and I never got in the mood to do it
with neither pay nor appreciation nor any user base except just
myself.

I've also considered writing a driver for TeX output, and also
directly to PostScript output, and also to RTF output, using
MRPP<n> to convert from Lisp/REDUCE expressions to nested overlays
then generating TeX/PS/RTF, but I've never had access to TeX nor
PostScript nor RTF, so no version of that task has been feasible.

I've also considered writing a driver for JPG or GIF or BMP output,
which could directly generate pretty mathprint-images for embedding
in Web pages, but I've never had direct Web access (except in a
public computer lab such as the library where I don't have any way
to do development work), so that idea hasn't been feasible either.

The head person where I developed MRPP4, Pat Suppes, later
published a paper about our CAI-Calculus software, but I didn't
receive a copy and haven't had access to it, so I don't know what
if anything he said specifically about the technology I developed
for MRPP4 and MRPP5, so I don't know whether there's anything in
print that would say anything I haven't said in this newsgroup
article.

By the way, the past few days I've been developing (without pay)
some software to draw near-optimal neighbor links between nodes in
ProxHash space, and to generate a nice ASCII character-array of the
graph so that I can directly see how my code is working. Here's the
output from one of the test runs (view with fixed-pitch font such
as Monaco).
...................................................AL.....................#
...................................................\......................#
....................................................\.....................#
....................................................\.....................#
....................................................\.....................#
.....................................................\....................#
.....................................................\....................#
......................................................\...................#
......................................................\...................#
......................................................\...................#
........................................AP-BI-----.....\..................#
...........................................|......-----BJ.................#
...........................................|...........|..................#
............................................|........./AA--...............#
............................................|......../.....--BH...........#
............................................|.....///......./.............#
.............................................|.../........../.............#
.............................................|///..........AM.............#
.............................................AQ............|.\\..........AI#
.......................................AO..//..............|...\\......//.#
........................................\./................|.....\\..//...#
.........................................AF...............|........\AB....#
......................................../.................|...............#
..................................../AVAC.................|...............#
.................................../....\../BN--AW........AU..............#
.............................BE--AT......AD......\\.......|...............#
............................/....\.......\.........\....--BF..............#
.........................../......AX......BC......./AJ--...\..............#
.........................../.......\\.......\\..BGAR.......ASAG...........#
.......................---BK.........\\.......\BL.|........|..............#
.................------...|............\..........|........|..............#
............-AZ--.........|.............\\........|....---BABB............#
........----..............|...............\\...---AE---...|...............#
.....---..................AK.............../AN-...........|...............#
.----......................\.............//...............|...............#
AH...........................BD.........//..................|..............#
.............................\.......//....................|..............#
.............................\.....//......................|..............#
..............................\..//........................|..............#
...............................AY..........................|..............#
...........................................................|..............#
...........................................................|..............#
............................................................|.............#
............................................................|.............#
............................................................|.............#
............................................................BM............#

After verifying that all the dots line up in neat columns, and the
number-sign at right margin lines up (except at one spot where
where node "AI" sits right at the right margin forcing the
number-sign to be displaced to the right), showing that you really
do have a fixed-pitch font, replace each dot with space to get a
better visualization of the image.

For an even better view, instead of 46 lines of 75 characters each
(not counting the # mark, and not counting the one label "AI" which
overflows the margin), I can generate a character array of 80 rows
and appx. 163 columns which looks great in Monaco 4. (You can't
*read* the labels in that size font, but you can always copy a tiny
part of one row and paste into another edit buffer where the font
is normal and you can read it, or even paste into the find-string
dialog. Or you can mark part of the screen to highlight it then
switch to Monaco 9 then scroll until you see the highlighted region
appear.)

I also have a HyperCard script for converting (label,row,col)
tuples to paint-text labels with pretty circles around them, and
converting links between labels as (row1,col1, row2,col2) tuples to
ordinary pencil-lines on the GUI. But the ASCII array displays in
Monaco 4 has been good enough for my debugging purposes so I
haven't yet interfaced my in-development code with the HyperCard
script I wrote several years ago. (I would need to look at the
data structure used by my HyperCard script, then write an output
routine in my Common Lisp code to generate exactly that format of
output, then manually copy&paste a block of such output from the my
VT100 emulator showing CL output to the TextArea in HyperCard.
(Actually HyperScript calls it something different, "Card Field"
(or "Background Field" if it's on a shared background instead of on
just a specific card), but I'm trying here to communicate with an
audience that might not have ever programmed in HyperTalk but is
familiar with the jargon of HTML and Java.)

> Ludovic

Serbian (like Slobodan Milosevic)?
Or Croatian (like Dennis Kucinich)?
Or somewhere else in that region?

George Neuner

unread,
Mar 28, 2008, 10:26:53 PM3/28/08
to

There's a lot of interesting stuff to be found searching old FTP
sites. A number of old sites are still running (some have switched to
web portals and shut down FTP access), but they aren't easy to find
using search engines unless you know the site name because the search
engine spiders routinely ignore them. About the only way to find some
of them is by mention in a newsgroup.

George
--
for email reply remove "/" from address

Nuno J. Silva

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Mar 29, 2008, 12:03:10 PM3/29/08
to
p...@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) writes:

> C Y <smust...@yahoo.com> writes:


>
>> On Mar 27, 9:10 am, l...@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> rem6...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, seehttp://tinyurl.com/uh3t) writes:
>>>
>>> > It's sad that TeX is still advertised as the state of art in math
>>> > typesetting, when in 1975, *before* TeX, I created a better way to lay
>>> > out math in MRPP3 [...] Too bad Knuth didn't collaborate with me to
>>> > combine my "overlays" with his finely-tuned font&kerning to get
>>> > something both easy to use (like MRPP3) and locally pretty (like TeX).
>>>
>>> Any links to code or papers regarding MRPP{3,4}?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ludovic.
>>
>> Second that request - coming up dry on searches.
>
> Yes, that may happen with stuff developped before the web. Oldies
> better put their stuff on the web soon, or they'll be forgotten
> forever. (But perhaps by some strange archeologist who would still go
> to physical "libraries"...).

IMO somewhere in the internet is enough.

No result with veronica, btw:

*** Search terms: MRPP ***
First 20 selectors displayed (total limit 1500; page 1).
Results sorted by apparent relevance.
0 total matches.

--
Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
LEIC student at Instituto Superior Técnico
Lisbon, Portugal
Homepage: http://njsg.no.sapo.pt/
Gopherspace: gopher://sdf-eu.org/11/users/njsg
Registered Linux User #402207 - http://counter.li.org

-=-=-
"The process of preparing programs for a digital computer
is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically
and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic
experience much like composing poetry or music."
-- Donald Knuth

Ludovic Courtès

unread,
Mar 29, 2008, 6:19:50 PM3/29/08
to
Hi,

rem...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) writes:

> The code for MRPP3 was DEC PDP-10 assembly language (FAIL,
> developed at Stanford AI Lab, better assembler than MACRO which was
> developed by DEC). It ran on WAITS, the SU-AI machine in the D.C.
> Powers building. It did WAITS I/O directed to the XGP (Xerox
> Graphics Printer). If you have a PDP-10 + WAITS emulator plus XGP
> emulator, I could show you the code if I still have it.

Thanks for the interesting description. Too bad no "write ups" and no
code are available. There's still interesting research being done on
document layout, notably using functional languages.

>> Ludovic
>
> Serbian (like Slobodan Milosevic)?
> Or Croatian (like Dennis Kucinich)?
> Or somewhere else in that region?

Not quite. That's my first name (unlike Milosevic), from France.

Thanks,
Ludovic.

Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

unread,
Mar 30, 2008, 6:58:09 AM3/30/08
to
> From: l...@gnu.org (Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?=)

> Thanks for the interesting description. Too bad no "write ups"
> and no code are available.

There seems to be a misunderstanding. I'm not aware of any *published*
reports of that software I wrote, except possibly in this:
(1995) Computer-based advanced placement calculus for gifted students.
Instructional Science, 22, 339-362 (written by my supervisor about our work)
I don't have access to that journal, and I wasn't told (four years
after I got laid off in 1991 due to recession and consequent lack
of funding) even that such an article had ever been published, and
I never received a preprint or reprint of it despite the fact that
my own work on that project was essential for its success. It was
only in mid-2005 that somebody did a search for my name in some
database of published journal articles which I don't have access to,
and thereby discovered that article mentionning my name, and posted
the info about it in a newsgroup, so that I could subsequently cite
it in my resume.

However there are plenty of unpublished files/articles mentionning it:

** MRPP3 later renamed "Prototype Overlay Xerographics" = POX

POX FAI REM Prototype Overlay Xerographics, formerly MRPP3.FAI
POX.DUC (REM024->REM021 RP3) (= POX.FAI) (Fdone.861103)

75801A WRU description of XGP and POX
75801A.810 (REM024->REM021 DC09) (Fdone.860208)

POX POX Source for pox writeup
POXPOX DUC Source for pox writeup
POXPOX.DUC (REM024->REM021 RP3) (= POX.WRU) (Fdone.861103)

POX PLN REM Plans and requested bug-fixes in POX not yet done
POX.PLN (REM024->REM021 DCNR) (Fdone.861103)

POX UPD REM New stuff in POX not yet in manual
POX.UPD (REM024->REM021 DCNR) (Fdone.861103)

MCR1 POX REM's first attempt to make a macro library for POX
MCR1.POX (DEL REM024->REM021 DCGM) (Fdone.861103) -> POX1.ARC

GRAPH POX Some preliminary macros for graphics in POX
GRAPH.POX (DEL REM024->REM021 DCGM) (Fdone.861103) -> POX1.ARC

NGB25 FNT REM (BINARY) Mixed font for POX and LMD, will be obsolete
; someday
NGB25.FNT (DEL REM024->REM021 DCNR) (Gone <90.8.11)
NGB25.FNT-OCT (DCNR)

POXMAC BIB Bibliography of POX macro libraries
POXMAC.BIB (REM024->REM021 DCNR) (Fdone.861103)

POX1.ARC from these files: Part of 798g.p,
All of 6502ab.pox 6502d.pox 6502p.pox 798b.pox 798m.pox 798p.pox 799h.pox
comovl.pox datime.pox dial1.pox graph.pox grhock.pox mcr1.pox nutrzz.pox
weekly.pox
POX1.ARC (90707P)

72827 REM Good/bad qualities of REM, from Marilyn Taylor, POX
72827.REM (REM024->REM021 RP2)
72827 TTY Good/bad qualities of REM, from Marilyn Taylor, ASCII
72827.TTY (REM024->REM021 RP2) (Fdone.860208)

** After MRPP3/POX, during interim before I got funding for MRPP4

MRPP4 PRO Proposal for son of POX using MacLISP
MRPP4.PRO (REM024->REM021 RP3) (Fdone.860715) Long before IMSSS/PSL

MRPP4 STATUS Status of son of POX (MRPP4) Long before IMSSS/PSL
MRPP4.STA (REM024->REM021 RP3) (Fdone.860715)
MRPP4.INF (DEL REM034->REM020 87730F) (Old name, renamed -> MRPP5.INF)


** MRPP4 and MRPP5 a.k.a. "MathPrint" in CAI-Calculus program

MRPP4.PRO (REM033 86Z87W) WorkCalc: New proposal for IMSSS work

MathPrint.I (91218W) WorkCalc: Math-printer stuff (MRPP4 and MRPP5)
; (formerly in *.INFO files on Tenex)

MRPP5HLP.STA
MP5HLP.STA (WatW-813) WorkCalc: For Arsen: Descr. language and spec of what
; formulas to print and how they will look

MRPP5U.NOT (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) (Gone <90.8.11)
MRPP4U.NOT (DEL REM005 89128W) (No keywords yet)
MRPP5U.NOTFICHE (DEL WatF-922b) (Keywords now) (Same as WatF-206)
MRPP5U.NOTFICHE (DEL WatF-206)
MRPP5U.NOTFICHE-WatF-206-V0 (90B03W) WorkCalc: Collection of all
; documentation and notes directly relevant to writing a technical
; report and user's manual for MRPP4

WISHMP.PRO (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) (Gone <90.8.11)
WISHMP.PRO (DEL REM005 89128W) (Gone <90.8.11)
WISHMP.PROFICHE (WatF-922c) WorkCalc: Wish list for mathprinter (MRPP4),
; proposed new features

89502A.NOT (WatW-601) WorkCalc: MRPP5 TODO-IDEAS

MRPP4I.PRO (REM030->REM020 87708F) (should be renamed as below)
MRPP5I.PRO = WorkCalc: Proposals for internal representation of infix
; boxes

MRPP5M.DOC (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) (Gone <90.8.11)
MRPP4M.DOC (DEL REM005 89128W) Older than WatF-922b
MRPP5M.DOCFICHE (DEL WatF-922b) Has keywords, same as WatW-716
MRPP5M.DOC (DEL WatW-716)
MRPP5M.DOC-WatW-716-V0 (90B03W) WorkCalc: How to modify MRPP4 (user's
; manual)

MP4TRY.PSL (DEL REM031->REM020 88225F)
MRPP5TRY.PSL
MP5TRY.PSL (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) - Nethdr; 4->5; One diff at end, else
; identical
MRPP5TRY.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-216) - Keywords; Bugfix to call canonicalize
;One diff at end, else identical
MPTRY.PSLFICHE-WatF-216-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Test rig for MRPP5

MRPP4.PSL (REM033 86Z87W) WorkCalc: Probably the version before converting to
; table-lookup and splitting into modules?

MPSTD.PSL (DEL REM031->REM020 88225F) (gone <90.5.18)
MPSTD.PSL (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) <TINY> - Nethdr
MPSTD.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-119) Keywords, Else identical to above
MPSTD.PSLFICHE-WatF-119-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: toplevel hook for MRPP5
; for STDASCII
MPUGS.PSL (DEL REM031->REM020 88225F) (gone <90.5.18)
MPUGS.PSL (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) <TINY> - Nethdr
MPUGS.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-C08) Keywords, Else identical to above
MPUGS.PSLFICHE-WatF-C08-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: toplevel hook for MRPP5
; for UGS
MRPP5A PSL
MRPP5A.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-922c) - Keywords; MRPP5; Identical to 813
MRPP5A.PSL (DEL WatW-813)
MPA.PSL-WatW-813-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: MRPP5A PSL = Part of mathprinter
; that sets up PrintEnv internally. This is presently run interpreted
; only.
MPB.PSLFICHE-WatF-C06a-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: MRPP5B PSL = Part of
; mathprinter that converts ME to OVERLAY, but only the parts that are
; fully table-driven.
MRPP5C.PSL (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) Nethdr
MRPP5C.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-C06a) Keywords, One line diff at end
MPC.PSLFICHE-WatF-C06a-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of mathprinter that
; reformats overlays to fit a region or just checks to see if it already
; fits.
MRPP4D.PSL (DEL REM034->REM020 87730F) - MRPP4
MRPP5D PSL
MRPP5D.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-922c) - Keywords; MRPP5; 1 diff line at end
MRPP5D.PSL (DEL WatW-813)
MPD.PSL-WatW-813-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of mathprinter that converts
; overlay to CPO.
M4DU.PSL (DEL REM030->REM020 87C29F)
MRPP5DU PSL
MRPP5DU.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-922c) - Keywords; 4->5 Identical to 813
MRPP5DU.PSL (DEL WatW-813)
MPDU.PSL-WatW-813-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of MRPP5D specific to UGS
M4DW.PSL (DEL REM030->REM020 87C29F)
MRPP5DW PSL
MRPP5DW.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-922c) - Keywords; 4->5; Identical to 813
MRPP5DW.PSL (DEL WatW-813)
MPDW.PSL-WatW-813-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of MRPP5D specific to WINDX
MRPP4E.PSL (DEL REM034->REM020 87730F)
MRPP5E PSL
MRPP5E.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-216) Keywords, 4->5, One line diff at end
MPE.PSLFICHE-WatF-216-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of mathprinter that
; emits CPO to device.
M4EU.PSL (DEL REM030->REM020 87C29F)
MRPP5EU PSL
MRPP5EU.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-216) - Keywords; Under edit to avoid load
; utility files; 4->5; Else same until 1 line before end
MPEU.PSLFICHE-WatF-216-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of MRPP5 specific to
; UGS
M4EW.PSL (DEL REM034->REM020 87730F)
MRPP5EW PSL
MRPP5EW.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-922c) - 4->5; Keywords; Else identical
MRPP5EW.PSL (DEL WatW-813) ;Identical to 922c
MPEW.PSL-WatW-813-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of MRPP5 specific to WINDX
MP4OT.PSL (DEL REM031->REM020 88225F)
MRPP5OT PSL
MP5OT.PSL (DEL REM025->REM020 88624F) - Nethdr; 4->5; Else identical
MRPP5OT.PSLFICHE (DEL WatF-C06a) - Keywords; Else identical
MPOT.PSLFICHE-WatF-C06a-V0 (90B11W) WorkCalc: Part of MRPP5O needed for
; STDASCII but not UGS

MP4RUS.CTL (REM005 89128W) WorkCalc: Tenex/PUP-level script for sending
; mathprinter files to FERMAT

** Result of Google search I conducted tonight in response to your article:

<http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2007-01/msg00281.html>
<http://www.interactivecode.com/googles-summer-code-17/modifying-array-access-syntax-34689-6/>
<http://www.interactivecode.com/software-engineering-2/software-job-market-myths-26540-27/>
<http://groups.google.co.il/group/comp.programming/msg/075a1d97dc4a49d9?dmode=source>
<http://ctan.math.utah.edu/ctan/tex-archive/web/glasgow/lit2x-0.16/literate/doc/REM.comments>


Now back to direct reply to your article:

> There's still interesting research being done on document layout,
> notably using functional languages.

I don't see any advantage of using functional languages, compared
to using procedural or OO or even rule-driven coding style. Is this
just a case where it happens that people doing research on
functional languages are the only major group of people who are
*also* interested in automatic mathematical layout for
display/printing? Or can you explain why a functional language
would be of any particular advantage? All you need really is a
nested representation for math expressions, i.e. a parse tree, i.e.
Lisp data structures following the (operator arg1 arg2 ...)
convention, plus data-processing software to recursively traverse
such a structure to bottom-up build the result structure such as
nested overlays. Either Algol 60, or Lisp 1.5, would have been
quite sufficient for this kind of D/P task. (Fortran wouldn't have
been sufficient, because it didn't support recursion back then,
because it stored return addresses from subroutines in fixed
locations rather than on a stack. Likewise I don't believe COBOL
had recursion either.)

START: (plus x (times 3 y)), it's not atomic.
Recurse to: x, it's atomic, build atomic overlay[x] and return it.
Recurse to: (times 3 y), it's not atomic.
Recurse to 3, it's atomic, build atomic overlay[3],
and return it.
Recurse to y, it's atomic, build atomic overlay[y],
and return it.
Combine the two returned pieces for 3 and y per the product rule:
Build the atomic overlay for the multiplication symbol [Unicode 22C5].
Compute offsets based on partial sums of horizontal size of components:
0 5 10 15
[3] [*] [y]
Build composite overlay:
CO1 = [ x= 0 y=0 [3] ]
[ x= 5 y=0 [Unicode 22C5]]
[ x=10 y=0 [y] ]
[ xsize=15 ysize=7]
Return that composite overlay.
Combine the two returned pieces for x and (times 3 y) per the sum rule:
Build the atomic overlay for the addition symbol [+],
and return it.
Build the atomic overlay for the thin space [Unicode 2009],
and return it.
Compute offsets based on partial sums of horizontal size of components:
0 5 8 13 16 31
[x] [Unicode 2009] [+] [Unicode 2009] CO1
Build composite overlay:
CO2 = [ x= 0 y=0 [3] ]
[ x= 5 y=0 [Unicode 2009] ]
[ x= 8 y=0 [+] ]
[ x=13 y=0 [Unicode 2009] ]
[ x=16 y=0 CO1 ]
[ xsize=31 ysize=7]
Return that composite overlay.

Ludovic Courtès

unread,
Mar 30, 2008, 11:04:38 AM3/30/08
to
Hi,

rem...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) writes:

> However there are plenty of unpublished files/articles mentionning it:

Thanks, that's indeed a long list. However, none of them seems to
be publicly accessible.

Unfortunately, none of these articles (all by you AFAICS) really gives
an overview of the system, which is what I was looking for.

>> There's still interesting research being done on document layout,
>> notably using functional languages.
>
> I don't see any advantage of using functional languages, compared
> to using procedural or OO or even rule-driven coding style.

I guess these are the same as for any kind of application, notably
referential transparency, which eases reasoning, etc.

The research I had in mind is about Lout [0] and Nonpareil [1], both
designed and implemented by Jeff Kingston [2]. Lout is a lazy, purely
functional DSL, while Nonpareil is a lazy, OO, purely functional general
purpose programming language. A significant departure from TeX' macro
system...

Thanks,
Ludovic.

[0] http://lout.sf.net/
[1] http://www.it.usyd.edu.au/~jeff/nonpareil/
[2] http://www.it.usyd.edu.au/~jeff/

Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

unread,
Apr 17, 2008, 1:52:44 AM4/17/08
to
This is an update to an earlier posting:
> From: rem6...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t)
> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:41:51 -0700

> <http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/tos.html>
> "Mentor Organizations" are defined as individuals, groups,
> organizations and/or businesses engaged in the development and
> distribution of free and/or open source software. ...

Which seems to mean that if I'm engaged in development and
distribution of free and/or open source software then I can declare
myself to be a "Mentor Organization" for the purpose of joining the
"Summer of Code 2008" as a mentor.

> Please sign in in order to use the Mentoring interface.
> Linkname: sign in
> URL:
> http://www.google.com/accounts/Login?continue=http://code.googl
> e.com/soc/mentor.html&followup=http://code.google.com/soc/mento
> r.html
> So it appears I won't be allowed to sign up as a mentor unless and
> until I reveal to Google one of my e-mail addresses, at which point
> Google will sell my e-mail address to spammers who will flood that
> e-mail address with spam so that later if Google Lisp managers or
> my student (whom I'm mentoring) send me e-mail I won't see it

> because it'll be mixed with tens of thousands of spam, ...

Somebody helped me get an account on spamgourmet, so I signed up
for the "Summer of Code 2008" as a mentor using that address. But
after I filled out their sign-up form and submitted it, this alert
showed on screen:
This page won't be much help until an Organization accepts you as a mentor
That alert makes no sense, considering that per the definition
given earlier I myself qualify as a "Mentor Organization", and by
filling out the form I formally accepted myself as a mentor. Will
somebody please tell me how to get past this obvious bug in the
sign-up procedure?

Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t

unread,
Jul 17, 2008, 11:39:00 AM7/17/08
to
> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:52:44 -0700
> From: lisp1.3.CalRob...@SpamGourmet.Com (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t)

> This is an update to an earlier posting:
> > From: rem6...@yahoo.com (Robert Maas, see http://tinyurl.com/uh3t)
> > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:41:51 -0700
> > <http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/tos.html>
> > "Mentor Organizations" are defined as individuals, groups,
> > organizations and/or businesses engaged in the development and
> > distribution of free and/or open source software. ...
> Which seems to mean that if I'm engaged in development and
> distribution of free and/or open source software then I can declare
> myself to be a "Mentor Organization" for the purpose of joining the
> "Summer of Code 2008" as a mentor.
..
> Somebody helped me get an account on spamgourmet, so I signed up
> for the "Summer of Code 2008" as a mentor using that address. ...

So that was three months ago that I signed up to server as a mentor
for the "Summer of Code 2008", and so-far nobody with the
organization has contacted me, not even to ask to confirm that I'm
the person who really signed up. Thus so-far communication with
them is one-way, I contact them, but they never contact me back.

Is there anybody in this newsgroup who has any two-way contact with
anyone involved in the "Summer of Code 2008" program, or with
LispNYC in general? Or is that organization a communication black
hole for everyone else too?

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