[ANN] ThunkGen released!

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Andrea Dallera

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Apr 3, 2010, 12:38:40 PM4/3/10
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Ahem...

I am a little ashamed of the fact that i actually wasted a couple of
hours on this but i just couldn't refrain myself after i read the
"suggestion" from Robert.

You can find the code here :

http://github.com/bolthar/thunkgen

If you want to go adding phrases you're my guest :-)

--
Andrea Dallera
http://github.com/bolthar/freightrain
http://usingimho.wordpress.com


Philip Rhoades

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Apr 3, 2010, 1:46:05 PM4/3/10
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Andrea,


On 2010-04-04 02:38, Andrea Dallera wrote:
> Ahem...
>
> I am a little ashamed of the fact that i actually wasted a couple of
> hours on this but i just couldn't refrain myself after i read the
> "suggestion" from Robert.
>
> You can find the code here :
>
> http://github.com/bolthar/thunkgen
>
> If you want to go adding phrases you're my guest :-)


Fantastic! I love it! - not wasted time at all . .

Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

GPO Box 3411
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
E-mail: ph...@pricom.com.au

thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 2:07:21 PM4/3/10
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Alright! Great humor! Thunk loves it...

Thunk was researching "actors" just now...

When he started it was a different world, one of pioneers more than
great brains, he was one of them.... and so his background is
fundamentally different. No formal traning, he said that, but it also
did not stop him from getting things done for the likes of McGraw-Hill
as R&D manager for more than a few years before the universities got
any clue what was going on.

The "ru'id" is something like an actor, and you guys are absolutely
right, and thunk never said otherwise, they are trivial.

The system around them is not so trivial.


But have your fun, thunk deserves it in a way, he was an inadvertent
"troll" and doesn't conform to the norm.

Thunk is not ashamed to admit that, he's at peace that he has made an
effort to describe this thing to the guys that have replaced his
peers. Most old guys go on to "management" and such, poor dumb thunk
just enjoys programming. If he thought his efforts were useless he'd
be more than glad to give up, but he still hasn't seen a thing on the
web that looks like what he believes he can do.

Can anybody explain that?

thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 2:18:35 PM4/3/10
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Thunk thinks that a couple of his best thunks are captured in his wiki
page titled "capturing the aluminum moment".

If you guys think that is also a joke after considering it, then
something is seriously amiss, and thunk must conclude he has started
dropping bits, or you guys are not as smart as you think you are
yet.

he seriously can't think of anything else that makes sense.

thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 2:34:35 PM4/3/10
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"capturing the aluminum moment" is about the economic opportunities.

"categorization, the secret sauce" could be a key to the difference
between the role of an"actor" and a "ru'id" - and that was one of the
most interesting "revelations" that may be the key to the some of
the confusion.

==========================

about categorization:

the ru'ids are fired sequentially and the "command the stage" for only
as long as it takes them to do their schtick. The whole system is
designed, now, around this simple but strange arrangement.

When the "ru'id" is done (.0005 sec or so) its gone a record remains.
The record would be floating in space like a piece of sputnik past,
except it knows its "categorization" and the "result" of its schtick.

Those two things allow a completely domain independent "reader" to do
some useful things - and the first time thunk saw that thunk could not
sleep for a couple of days.

Peter Hickman

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Apr 3, 2010, 2:37:23 PM4/3/10
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[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Well he has posted enough for a decent corpus so maybe something based on a
Markov chain would be in order.

But then again, it's not like I actually want more

Chuck Remes

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Apr 3, 2010, 3:56:05 PM4/3/10
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On Apr 3, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Andrea Dallera wrote:

> Ahem...
>
> I am a little ashamed of the fact that i actually wasted a couple of
> hours on this but i just couldn't refrain myself after i read the
> "suggestion" from Robert.
>
> You can find the code here :
>
> http://github.com/bolthar/thunkgen
>
> If you want to go adding phrases you're my guest :-)

Hilarious!

BTW, I am certain "thunk" goes out of his way to make his writing obtuse. I read some of his earlier non-boid/non-ruid posts to this list; they made sense and had (for the most part) proper syntax and grammar.

Methinks thunk likes his odd reputation. And we're just feeding it.

cr


thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 4:33:55 PM4/3/10
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>
> Methinks thunk likes his odd reputation. And we're just feeding it.
>
> cr

how many programmers get to "invent" a whole new way to get a job
done, get to be run out of town by his peers?

its the stuff of legends!

ps there was a thunk in the Icelandic sagas - he was a hero for taking
hard blows to his head and living to laugh about them, not sure what
happened to the guys he fought, they did not get recorded in the
legends.

Matt Lawrence

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Apr 3, 2010, 4:45:49 PM4/3/10
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On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, thunk wrote:

> ps there was a thunk in the Icelandic sagas - he was a hero for taking
> hard blows to his head and living to laugh about them, not sure what
> happened to the guys he fought, they did not get recorded in the
> legends.

There's also a Thunk in "Heroics for Beginners" by John Moore. He was
used as comic relief.

Just sayin....

-- Matt
It's not what I know that counts.
It's what I can remember in time to use.

thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 4:54:03 PM4/3/10
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and who are the beginners?

thunk was writing code generators before many of you were born,

his dad used to say things like that, and thunk hated it, but its
still true.


Robert Dober

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Apr 3, 2010, 4:55:55 PM4/3/10
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I agree and I feel a little bit guilty about it, however we had some
fun, what's soo bad about this. Thunk is not just a normal troll she
is a troll of a higher level, a meta troll, that should gain her some
respect after all. And she reacted quite well to what might have been
taken badely by lots of others, my respect for that too. But I agree a
troll she remains and I will stop feeding her now *promised*.
BTW.
Complimenti Andrea!

R.
Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.”
--- Confucius

thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 5:56:03 PM4/3/10
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The troll rode in here looking for the answer to the question, that,
in retrospect could be worded so:

"they are members of a group, they are minimalistic, they
are ..blablabla and they remind the group seems like a "Swarm" so I
will start with "Boid".

Boid carries AI baggage offending some, intriguing others, and
dazzling not a few.

Circles were gone in, kophs were butted, gurus passed judgements,
mullas mulled and so on....

A nekkid ru'id was posted, examples given, .................

"Actors" were suggest but they are all tied up in more trivial seeming
tasklets

"ABS" doesn't impress (at least what was turned up in 1/2 hour of....

Bottom.bottom.bottom line nobody has been able to tell the troll what
the freak'n thingy is:

sooo, the troll must assume

1. nobody cares anymore
||
2. nobody really understands (even looking right at a nekkid one)
||
3. the troll has done something to register at least a
"interesting" (but nobody has the balls to acknowledge)
||
4. the troll is wacked


the troll thinks a mix of 1&2&3, yaaa some 4 (what else is new)
but lots of 2 and enough 3 to make the troll even more
curious what is the REAL big picture is.

and also the troll is frustrated, yes, frustrated because the domain
she is working in is not where the greatest Good is to be done.
trinkgeld ya, but not much for good.

but screw it, enough is enough


posting now so this is DONE, the troll will not feed herself, she's
not of that sort...


and that dot.com startup theory? the troll thinks you guys may be
eating some of the wrong mushrooms.

thunk

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Apr 3, 2010, 6:23:59 PM4/3/10
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ps this is the most fun the troll has had in awhile, she's off now to
write a book on:


How Emergent Swarms build knowledge farms in the clouds; and why your
shopping basket just laughed at you

or

how to make ru'id behavior pay


she's still pondering on that choice


Robert Klemme

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Apr 4, 2010, 6:42:06 AM4/4/10
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On 04/03/2010 11:56 PM, thunk wrote:
> The troll rode in here looking for the answer to the question, that,
> in retrospect could be worded so:
>
> "they are members of a group, they are minimalistic, they
> are ..blablabla and they remind the group seems like a "Swarm" so I
> will start with "Boid".

There is no question in that paragraph. This is an example of what made
me stop listening.

> Bottom.bottom.bottom line nobody has been able to tell the troll what
> the freak'n thingy is:

IMHO it's your part to explain what all this is about. Either you have
an idea for a design or software architecture and want our judgment. Or
you present some ideas and want to know what architecture would fit that
or whether that thing does exist already. But it's your turn to convey
your point. We can only help by asking questions about things that are
not clear to us.

> sooo, the troll must assume
>
> 1. nobody cares anymore

Well, fact is that with the flow of posts and news coming our way most
of us employ some form of heuristic that stops following a topic if they
did not get to the bottom of the issue after a certain time. Given that
I'd say people have followed your "boit" stuff pretty long.

> 2. nobody really understands (even looking right at a nekkid one)

I believe this is the main problem. For whatever reasons people did not
or do not seem to understand what all this is about.

> 3. the troll has done something to register at least a
> "interesting" (but nobody has the balls to acknowledge)

That's not true: IIRC several people have stated interest in your
project but failed at point 2 of your list.

> posting now so this is DONE, the troll will not feed herself, she's
> not of that sort...

Apparently you broke your vow already... :-)

Cheers

robert


PS: I don't think it is a good idea to invest time in a piece of
software as that advertised in this thread.

--
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

Andrea Dallera

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Apr 4, 2010, 10:48:27 AM4/4/10
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> PS: I don't think it is a good idea to invest time in a piece of
> software as that advertised in this thread.

It's not. But it was very little time and it's been fun :-)

Seebs

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Apr 4, 2010, 2:10:08 PM4/4/10
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On 2010-04-04, Andrea Dallera <and...@andreadallera.com> wrote:
>> PS: I don't think it is a good idea to invest time in a piece of
>> software as that advertised in this thread.

> It's not. But it was very little time and it's been fun :-)

Sometimes, it's a good idea to spend some time doing something that is
recreational but not of any other particular value.

-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet...@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

Robert Dober

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Apr 5, 2010, 6:39:13 AM4/5/10
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On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Andrea Dallera <and...@andreadallera.com> wrote:
>
>> PS: I don't think it is a good idea to invest time in a piece of
>> software as that advertised in this thread.
>
> It's not. But it was very little time and it's been fun :-)
What puzzles me, dear Andrea, is that in some cultures you still need
to appologize for having fun... while you can criticize with a grim
voice as much as you want, as long as you make believe that you are
unhappy ('cause that makes you serious, laughable).
Cheers
R.


--

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 7:28:17 AM4/5/10
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this is thunkalene, no oaths being broken

thunk thinks this may break the logjam of misunderstandings

http://wiki.github.com/gkoller/Ruids/categorization-the-secret-sauce-of-a-ruid

or maybe not, he thinks it makes some things clear

but then, he is wondering if he has really gone batShit crazy

Andrea Dallera

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Apr 5, 2010, 7:33:15 AM4/5/10
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Hei,

it's cool, let's not be grumpy about it. I'm sure Robert (Klemme) didn't want
to be mean. And he's also kind of right :-)
Thanks a lot for the support, that little time I invested feels a little less
wasted now.

Keep hacking!

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 8:01:53 AM4/5/10
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Robert Klemme

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Apr 5, 2010, 12:21:45 PM4/5/10
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On 04/05/2010 01:33 PM, Andrea Dallera wrote:

> it's cool, let's not be grumpy about it. I'm sure Robert (Klemme) didn't want
> to be mean. And he's also kind of right :-)

I certainly did not intend to be mean. I tried to remind everybody that
we're dealing with humans here (and not a swarm of chat bots) and that,
while it's completely legal to make fun of someone, there are better
ways to entertain oneself. We are really lucky that our community is
such a friendly place and I believe we should not risk that easily.

Kind regards

robert

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 12:46:21 PM4/5/10
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hier speaks thunktoktor, her englisch not so good

no buks to sell
no real site to sell anything
no framework - not even one about nilch
no seaking of guru-status

no nothing for sail - not even a speech to go to

this is being a "troll"?

WHAT is a troll?

Robert Klemme

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Apr 5, 2010, 12:50:39 PM4/5/10
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On 04/05/2010 01:28 PM, thunk wrote:
> this is thunkalene, no oaths being broken
>
> thunk thinks this may break the logjam of misunderstandings
>
> http://wiki.github.com/gkoller/Ruids/categorization-the-secret-sauce-of-a-ruid

> Tabulating, Scoring, Reporting, Summarizing, (Guiding drilldown,
> changing the colors of icons) and such functions can be done without
> Domain Specific Knowldeg – something to think about….. a Framework
> could do usefull things for people, without a glimmer of
> understanding of what it is working with.

Take any RDBMs combined with Crystal Reports, MS Excel or any other
reporting package and you have exactly that: a tool suite that can do
reports with zero knowledge about the nature of the data that is being
reported.

What is it that your package does better or different?

Kind regards

robert

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 12:58:35 PM4/5/10
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100 percent ruby in a tight mass of dynamic power!

give them 100 blackboxes of boring stuff, them what they are looking
for, send them off....

in real-time, continually... over and over all day....

shopping baskets examined

quality issues to be caught from patterns (before?)

oh my, does excel to do that already?

ms couldn't do what osborne/paperback back in the day.

then there are these "satz" and well, its just a lot of fun.....

thunk is not a re-inventor, not on purpose.... maybe it is for him to
become a walmart greeter instead of worrying about other people's
shopping baskets (where the bright idea came from and Jen jenson of
voicehero's said "vow"

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 1:04:27 PM4/5/10
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and, and... "reports" - are the dumb shit automatic stuffs - they need
to be done before the fun stuff only.

this "satz" thing gives the computer something it needs, and can be
turned into sentences for the humans. fits into this. and rdms - wow
- thunk forgot about those when he met couchDB - this is all OO & no
AOO (Almost OO)


thunktocktor

Andrea Dallera

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Apr 5, 2010, 1:09:22 PM4/5/10
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Hei,

there was absolutely no intent to offend anyone from my side: i believe thunk
himself understood that and i also think he took the joke with the right
spirit. You will have to concede me that, while my prank was surely a little
sour, thunk went a great deal to deserve it :-)
Anyway, I agree with you on the fact that making fun of someone just to have a
laugh at it is despicable. I just think this was not the case.

Best!

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 1:18:17 PM4/5/10
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had thunk been a troll, real or inadvertant

then he would deserve stones, arrows, and any device of thereof

without anything to sell, without even a framework to give away, and
mostly eerily not seeming to care about guru status candidateshipness
he was most certain a outlier...


let him ramble???

ya, thanks, we had a customer that was doing studies for a new jet
model. reflexes. they ran an ad. folks showed up. studies got
made. and they puzzled the bejezzus out of all the experts -

well, not to bore, but a surprising portion of those ersatz turned out
to be winos (without reflexes) - true story - who could make THAT up??

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 1:31:38 PM4/5/10
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Robert,

thunk is no guru but perhaps some of the "intuitive" excitement of
things that could be done with this comes from the fact that the
Ru'ids are distributable. This is understood in his primitive way
from years of DOS based multi-layererd but pre-webland things of a
somewhat similar nature without a depth of web-era specific do-
thingings that cannot be all that different.

The concept of an "Expert session" using the same central class as the
run-time ru'ids and all kinds of dynamic mischief seems - ahh , put
that ego down boy - "interesting"

thunktocktor

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 2:13:24 PM4/5/10
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ahhhh,

The point about "satz" could have been lost, so sorry. Let's say this
super succinctly:

satz are just simple "hashes"
satz follow simple conventions
satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

satz are understandable by computers -

satz make for much more interesting output than the report-writers
written by thunk in circa 1982 - (for mcGraw-hill) AS they can be
turned into
Techlish or TechDeutsch or you name it - the valuable stuff are
symbols and those symbols are keys to the a yet unexplored land (for
the author anyway)....

and the author looked up tuples a couple of times now and they don't
make sense to him. and since this works, and since is silly simple,
and since he is seeing what he calls "worksheets" which elbow past
"reports" and consider themselves to be of another nature than reports
- reports have been done - oh wow, but the author could really write
a book on that.

not to over-advertise on these satz! no. they just are making the
worksheets do things the author never thought he could do before. try
turning a bunch of rdms stuff into readable sentences?!? has MS found
a way to do that? then its not the MS the author knew.

thunktocktor

Aldric Giacomoni

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Apr 5, 2010, 2:34:44 PM4/5/10
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thunk wrote:
> ahhhh,
>
> The point about "satz" could have been lost, so sorry. Let's say this
> super succinctly:
>
> satz are just simple "hashes"
> satz follow simple conventions
> satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings

"Satz" means "thing" in German. I believe explaining this single thing
makes it much simpler.
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Aldric Giacomoni

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Apr 5, 2010, 2:36:31 PM4/5/10
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Aldric Giacomoni wrote:
> thunk wrote:
>> ahhhh,
>>
>> The point about "satz" could have been lost, so sorry. Let's say this
>> super succinctly:
>>
>> satz are just simple "hashes"
>> satz follow simple conventions
>> satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings
>
> "Satz" means "thing" in German. I believe explaining this single thing
> makes it much simpler.

Gasp! I have an itchy "Send" finger. I apologize for the typo! Please do
not flagellate me.
http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Satz

Essentially, a sentence, or a clause. Something similar to that.

Marvin Gülker

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Apr 5, 2010, 2:41:40 PM4/5/10
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That correct but there's a second meaning, although much less frequently
used. We Germans may say: "Das ist ein Satz Buchstaben" and aren't
talking about sentences. The translated sentence is: "That's a set of
letters".

I think that meaning is more accurate here.

Marvin

Robert Dober

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Apr 5, 2010, 2:49:12 PM4/5/10
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On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Aldric Giacomoni <ald...@trevoke.net> wrote:

>
> "Satz" means "thing" in German. I believe explaining this single thing
> makes it much simpler.

You must be kidding
Satz means amongst others, sentence, theorem, set (in tennis as well
as regading a collection of objects) thing, I really cannot come up
with a context for this.

Robert Dober

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Apr 5, 2010, 2:55:42 PM4/5/10
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On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Marvin Gülker <sut...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Aldric Giacomoni wrote:
>> Aldric Giacomoni wrote:
>>> thunk wrote:
>>>> ahhhh,
>>>>
>>>> The point about "satz" could have been lost, so sorry.  Let's say this
>>>> super succinctly:
>>>>
>>>> satz are just simple "hashes"
>>>> satz follow simple conventions
>>>> satz hang out in methods in an array with their siblings
>>>
>>> "Satz" means "thing" in German. I believe explaining this single thing
>>> makes it much simpler.
>>

or a jump. Maybe we have covered most common usages now ;)


>> Gasp! I have an itchy "Send" finger. I apologize for the typo! Please do
>> not flagellate me.
>> http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Satz
>>
>> Essentially, a sentence, or a clause. Something similar to that.
>
> That correct but there's a second meaning, although much less frequently
> used. We Germans may say: "Das ist ein Satz Buchstaben" and aren't
> talking about sentences. The translated sentence is: "That's a set of
> letters".
>
> I think that meaning is more accurate here.
>
> Marvin
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
>
>

--

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 3:15:26 PM4/5/10
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buchstaben?!

Das Wort entstand wahrscheinlich aus den germanischen, zum Los
bestimmten Runenstäbchen (*bōks). Diese als Runen bezeichnete
Schriftzeichen wurden damals oft mittels Punzieren in Waffen, aber
auch in Stäbchen aus dem harten und schweren Holz der Buche geritzt.
Die derart beschriebenen Stäbchen benutzten die Germanen als Orakel
für wichtige Entscheidungen und nach einer Theorie leitet sich deshalb
das Wort „Buchstabe“ von diesen kultisch bedeutsamen Buchen-Stäbchen
ab. Nach einer anderen Theorie geht der Ausdruck „Buchstabe“ auf den
kräftigen Zentralstrich der Runen zurück, mit dem sie jeweils gebildet
werden. [1]

the author remembers puzzling on this in his highschool german class,
where he was about the only non-fluent german in the bunch. his
grandparents thought they spoke german, but it turned out to be some
dialect that didn't gain the author any respect :) just really weird
looks when it was his turn to speak.

it was his first real challenge, or so his saga might read....

he literally fell into the "Nebulungen" / poetry / sagas and such.
imagine reading detailed descriptions of ancient sagas with nothing
but a smattering of things like "wash cloths", "table", "walls", cats,
dogs and such as that.... ?? it was a strange/wonderful experience
he can read almost anything these days but can't speak, but thinks he
can after enough beer.

thunk

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Apr 5, 2010, 4:19:12 PM4/5/10
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on a serious note:

Seriously I do not know what this is either. I am not an experienced
progammer, as mentioned I was doing report-writers for McGraw-Hill in
the early 80's (because Fixed Assets needed 30 plus reports and
floppies were not going to hold anything else. Also screen
generators, our own db, and you just name it all, ol thunk invented it
because nothing but nothing was available in UCSD Pascal despite all
the dreams.)

I showed up here thinking the defining unit was a "Boid" but that
drags in too much AI baggage and this is not that, yet.

The ABS stuff seemed to be doing some similar things but looked like
something legacy like and smelled of c crud.

Actors seem clearly more "sophisticated" but, as of this moment, and
this is evolving as I get pinged here, it seems like the best fit.

A Ru'id does not seem to be nearly as powerful as an Actor. A ru'id
commands the stage for 0.0005 sec and is gone, only the "casing"
remains.

However, what the Ru'id lacks in Actor abilities, perhaps it gains
from simplicity, (distributability??), simple authorability and such
as these characteristics?

That is the author's best guess right now.

NEXT STEP - if there is to be one -

well, one offer on the table would be to bring the whole thing to some
trusted 3rd party and take a good look at it. no consulting fees,
this is not about that. but it is also not about taking time away
from the doable to talk about the meaning of distributed, ok?, the
ultimate thing would be to put this whole thing into a demo version
planted in the Heroko gardens and let everybody author sets of these
things to see what they can do. the author is not capable of that by
himself. the author can't imagine being at the center of a gitHub
club.

or the author really needs to get back to his work...


thunktoktor


Mark T

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Apr 6, 2010, 1:19:27 AM4/6/10
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Here's a problem space which may fit the description of the thunkaTron.

The set of browsers available increases each month.
Some are derivatives of a common code base.
Though these can have different javascript engines.
So across the javascript implementations, there are many differences.
There have been attempts to shim these.
Could a swarm of boids be sent flying around web sites:
1) Gain an element location, pick up the 'twig' = 'URL + xpath'.
2) Return this to a set of browser proxies.
3) Take the result to a 'nest' where growing javaBoids eat at the
edges until a single rule is obtained which:
Results in a shim routine which normalizes the behavior of a script.
The path of javascript over the next 5-10 years, coupled with the
xhtml (svg) + javascript could do with such a project.

Boids or no boids.

MarkT

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 2:55:27 AM4/6/10
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The original Thunkatron "problem space" was the "Is this a 'system'"
and if so, then what can we tell the shopping basket person?

That "problem space" seems to be totally untapped but the thunk
appreciates the problem much better - real expertise is needed.

Real expertise and experience is floating around out there. There are
likely 1000 computer junkies plugged into a forum this moment doing
their geeky things and slinging bloblets of text at each other.

One of the most particular ways that these things ru'ids seem
interesting is this:

=================
The thunk cannot see why a "Knowledge Farm" could not be built
parallel to any technical forum about anything that resembles a
"system".
=================

Read that carefully? This is a favorite "gedankengang" - (??) -
thought path for the author, NOT his field of major interest, not his
expertise, not his paygrade. But something the old thunker keeps
going to, to push and pull ideas around and play "what if", "why not",
"wtf - why haven't those very bright guys with all their very bright
tools, started doing this yet"

OK? Its a question I have, it is not crystal clear, crystal clear
is for past tense. Like the war in Afganistan - the president of
thunkastan did not threaten to join the enemy today - his problem
domain is much simpler :)

Take a gedankengang with the author??

Instead of 20 postings zinging right and left, and often at each
other, lets visualize that the people here could "author a ru'id" by
simply doing not too much more than a click, and then answering a
series of multiple choices. And when he is done, in LESS time than is
spent composing many postings - instead of another bloblet of text -
there is in "problem space" - SOMEWHERE - a new ru'id that does
basically no more, and no less than the Ru'ids the author is playing
with.

Now - the next time a posting is made on such a thing as:

:PROGRAMMING, :LEARNING, :DKJAKS_SLKDJFKD

all the Ruids of the Universe known play in this "problem space" get
"fired" at the subject. Nothing may happen, but one or one hundred
may "hit". The hits form a pattern (if there are a quantity of hits)
- now the question writer is presented with a table/dashboard of the
hits with colors, and icons and that kind of stuff - (automatic).
This dashboard is PASSIVE, not in your face flashing and stupid
advertising or that sort of thing, it says basically that your
question has been "HIT" there is a pattern, if you would rather look
at the results, at any level of detail, than proceed with your
question then be our guest.

This is NOT the author's favorite Gedangengang, this is NOT the
author's direct field of expertise, IT IS ONLY SOMETHING HE CANNOT
FIGURE AN ANSWER TO.

ok?

thunktocktor


thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 3:27:44 AM4/6/10
to

......

and nothing has to happen to that ru'id for it to become a part of a
system that is continually "fired! at" every new posting. Authors are
sorted and given ranks by "merito-tology" / secret meetings / politico
points / inverse to spelling errors or whatever the bright people
behind all this think is should be. (oh boy, that's a sleeper)

Conceptually the ru'ids are not "flying around" rather they much more
like a BULLET (metaphore #103, sorry) but that is true. The hit the
target or they don't. Oh. Like a light wave - that fits, and recently
a nifty phrase pinged the author's gedanker, something like "shadow
caster" and a flag got attached to that, a not got made on a wiki-
page, and the author was accused of rambling too long..... it was a
suspended idea shoved into text.... how to explain?

Bullets seem not so peaceful, but excuse the author for a moment, and
let him share? - not an unfascinating gedangengang partner?
A modern machinegun can "caste" (like stones... wow) bullets in such a
way that square meters are covered in seconds. now, if they were less
menacing and smart enough to send a message back.... then a
helicopter could bullet caste objects of interest and build an image
of what the target was. ahhhh, light does that too, right? so these
Ru'ids are about the speed of a bullet, less harmful, they-come-in-
peace! , but they "form an image" of what they are thrown at by way of
very simple communications.... it's a shame bullets cannot do the
same yet.

OK?

The author was in "Blue Sky Research" where we did "brain storming"
and some of that has never gone away - it is a technique that has
probably been renamed in problem space but in such sessions you don't
inhibit thoughts. No, stream of consiousness did not "die" with Joyce
- do you know who Robin Williams is? Oh boy. that man can caste
thoughts....... puff the magic comedian - git it?


thunktocktor


thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 5:06:57 AM4/6/10
to

Damned!

That's what "boids" can do? Seriously? I thought you were making fun
of thunk at first.

Way Short ans: no.

More thoughtful short ans: yes

Explain? I think I like "ru'ids" as part of this tightly packed
"100% ruby set of modules". There is messynesses in this already - a
demo requires a weblet - and that weblet would really help all this
make sense. I don't want to "over advertise" this, seriously, but the
"ru'id" is born distributed to be distributed and to be a small part
of this bundle that can use them on any machine that can execute ruby,
anywhere, over and over, I guess, or once an hour, or once a day. it
is - maybe - more about "signals" and "broadcasting"
than .....????? ........... this would be nice to chat about with
some professor someplace.

a ru'id is trained to respond in a scrpted way to some particular set
of keys.... like the example above. "it" leaves a coded mssg that
the swarm_reader must decode. its all a tight "bundle" of dynamic
action - lots of reflection - the "magic" comes from how simple it is
to take a urRuid and get it ready to go on it's mission - which is
basically "to listen" - think about instructions to a wwII pilot as a
part of a set of planes going on a single misssion - his instructions
could be:

follow your usual guy
use your usual handle
follow in the usual formation
report anything interesting (what ain't water)

or - "do it again, fly boy" might be all he needs to hear

the urRu'id has all the otherstuff, and the pilot gets that free.

AND why are you doing "Boids" on the author?? you teasing/testing
him?

======================

could a Ru'id do that?? let them watch "TopGun" a few times, and
watch out?!

seriously, they could get fibered and go on much longer missions - and
that would raise the consulting fees but that's not what they were
born to do.

Perhaps, however, if building a nest of shim-sticks (?) is worth
something more than bombarding NewEgg shopping baskets - then who am I
to say - I can say that would seem to be more fun! that what the
author is doing now - but getting something done rather than writing
about it also is a consideration.


thunktocktor

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 6:13:33 AM4/6/10
to

another shot from the side on this:

a swarm/collection of Ru'ids could be partially of as:

===============
a set of pre-trained "scanners", EACH of which has a set of simple web-
online-authored mission specific instructions.

there is something with "broadcasting" going on here.
there is something with "shadow casting" going on here - debriefing -
"xray images"

there is a strong hint of distributed - the expert is in Milwaukee,
the Ru'id weblet he's communicating with while authoring - is in
Berlin - and that's JUST the start - it would be distributed from
there - after vetting - or as a young candidate in waiting - to
regional hospitals in Israel and Boston and so on - immediately - no
hands touching anything - no special excel programs - no crystal
reports - nothing like that.

So bottom.line the Ru'id was generated upon seeing an EVENT of
significance to an EXPERT in Milwaukee, and 10 minutes or so later,
somebody "interested" / prepared to respond to that same lesson /
event could be NOTIFIED (via email / text message) per his settings on
His /its "personally tuned SwarmReader".

and yes this is done with RSS or whatever, i know, but then so are
reports - maybe the "key-key-key" is the ease and compactness and
automatic-ness of it all?

whew. I'm not going to even re-read than for a couple of hours.

Every distributed to center would have to have a "SwarmReader".
Alarms could go off, or an icon could go from green to yellow in a
dashboard like manner.

All this stuff together is like 4,000 lines before you start adding
the Ru'ids.

and that, seems "distributed", to the author, now that he thinks about
it :)
================

the "docking" with the Helper_class gives the ru'id his window to the
world - the ru'id just gives the system a set of scripted instructions
(DSL) to follow in his 0.00005 (or so) sec on the stage. (so far
ru'ids have made only 2-5 assertions)

the ru'id might have learn, for example that the CPU and the
Motherboard in the customers "shopping basket" are not compatible.
this little "factoid" has no particular meaning unless the entire
contents of a shopping basket has been determined to be a single
system. if the customer has 3 systems in there, and for example, no
CPU matches with any Motherboard then.... but that's there passively
at the first level.

The "swarm_reader" could make sense of this and look up the shopping
habits of the customer, consult the statistical universe of all
shoppers, call the client, send the client a email with or without a
WTF? subject title depending on his age, and humor threshold.


thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 10:25:49 AM4/6/10
to

Thunk just finished this new analogy, it seems to him to hit home....

it probably can use a lot of tweaking, but the idea IS IN THERE, and
really, for the first time thunk thinks he "could not miss".

It starts with

imagining a kid with 10,000 "nurfs" (firing 2000/sec)

it ends with imaging

and seems to clarify the whole thing to a point beyond his own recent
understanding (his project is not using much of this, yet)


thunktoktor

http://wiki.github.com/gkoller/Ruids/a-nurf-analogy

Chuck Remes

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Apr 6, 2010, 12:54:13 PM4/6/10
to

I get a 404 Not Found error when trying to bring up that URL. Please check to make sure that page exists.

cr

Aldric Giacomoni

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Apr 6, 2010, 1:05:23 PM4/6/10
to
thunk wrote:
> Thunk just finished this new analogy, it seems to him to hit home....
>

You guys see this horse? It's dead. You guys see this stick? STOP
BEATING THE HORSE WITH IT!

Chuck Remes

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Apr 6, 2010, 1:11:03 PM4/6/10
to
On Apr 6, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Aldric Giacomoni wrote:

> thunk wrote:
>> Thunk just finished this new analogy, it seems to him to hit home....
>>
>
> You guys see this horse? It's dead. You guys see this stick? STOP
> BEATING THE HORSE WITH IT!

Aldric,

you are free to ignore this thread.

I have chatted with Mr. thunk off-list a few times and think there may be some life left in this horse.

cr


Ryan Davis

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Apr 6, 2010, 1:34:02 PM4/6/10
to

On Apr 6, 2010, at 10:11 , Chuck Remes wrote:

> you are free to ignore this thread.

and you are free to stay off list with thunk.

> I have chatted with Mr. thunk off-list a few times and think there may be some life left in this horse.

I think that means you may be just as insane (or drunk) as thunk. You sound like this guy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8591303.stm

:P

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 1:35:44 PM4/6/10
to
Chuck,

GitHub had it up, then it was down, I resent one (had a copy) then
they both were up, then they both disappeared.

Just read the N.Korea is selling an open source os and spying on us,
um, i'm like wondering.... those people SPY on folks, nothing like
that happens, nah, but anyway I have copies and GitHub is in the
BackUp boniness, right?

It features 100,000 or so Nurfs building an image by the simple
expediency of calling into a helper_library::assertion_method when
they strike something.
In "Image" can be built of what folks are wearing, their temperature,
the hardness and stuff like that - each successive wave of "nurfs"
helps build the image by being fired in a raster scan like pattern
(anybody still remember how cathode based TVs used to work?? :) )

Seemed like a killer idea.

Warning: Don't let a US Marine "take your image" - it won't hurt for
long. a friend sends me links of long range sni p e r shots (1 mile)
that go through walls - the image there is not as clear because on
shot seems to do it.


Aldric Giacomoni

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Apr 6, 2010, 2:06:03 PM4/6/10
to

I have a suggestion: all of us, including thunk, stop talking about that
particular project until it comes to fruition and/or we have some actual
code we can look at.

It's of course welcomed to hear thunk's Ruby-related questions on this
forum. Ruby on Rails questions should go to the RoR forum.

Does that sound good?

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 2:37:59 PM4/6/10
to
Aldric,

This won't go on. I have no more interest in writing to a black-hole,
than you guys have to read stuff from one. OK?

This IS a ruby 'issue" in so far as it probably only possible in Ruby
in such a tight little pack. OK from what others have told me about
Python and so (functions vs methods) that would not have been
possible.

I would be HAPPY to forget about communicating, really, it is eating
up too much of my time too. However, "what ever this is" that was
created to "blast folks" shopping baskets is bigger than that. If I
wasn't as experienced I would not have confidence to say things about
100,000 ru'ids when I only have 200 or so.
OK? The question of to "framework or not to framework" IS NOT really
the question I have - as much as "How could this contribute to the
'greatest good'. You can believe ol' thunk or not on that, but if ol'
thunk was motivated by money.

ol' thunk just learned that the least imaginative, slowest witted\,
most political creation in his bevy of programmers to be is not in
charge of all things quality for Mititoyo. The Hong-kong PHD he had
working on the project went to MS and is doing something out
there.... he went off to sail and program in Smalltalk. Ruby rather
is.... you know... has done it right.

The world does strange things to people, I did ceramics and ran with
artists - and in that world being called "normal" would be like you
guys calling me BatShit crazy. They are different worlds but some of
us have never been anything but artists to start with... go figure.

I can SEE worksheets being produced by 2 swarms of these things. I
have this (Meise) - lowly / route to a few dollars route planned out
that is 90% and a lot of work. I see much much much more powerful
things to be done, and I am 100% prepared to share 100% but I am not
willing to put the code up on a github and have people ask me why it
doesn't run on JRuby2.3x on his Linux dkjfkd os after he did this..
how incredibly unrewarding would that be?

BUT ol thunk has picked up a lot, the "actor" thing (which he
remembers evaluating for McGraw-hill way back in some early
manifestation??) fits fairly well. But from recording "Events" in
factories for years - like Toyota (??) in England, John Deere plants,
HP, and such as those he can see somethings - and let ol' thunk tellya
they ain't "reports" - read the Nurf thing if gitHub coughs it back up
- but (we) all think that makes it much clearer than anything written
before, once you see it, it will be obvious, there's a ahha thing that
seems to happen. But the weather is clear and beautiful and sky is
BLUE on the other side of that moment.

the gang

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 2:52:06 PM4/6/10
to
and further complicating the factors is that ol'thunk is not a natural
guru type - he doesn't see himself writing books, chatting, or any
such thing.

then, he'd also dearly love to around some ruff dogs that know about
the whole big picture whereas ol'thunk only loves to program.

so some university, some trusted entity would be welcome.

there is a certain amazing ramazian fellow that ol'thunk would trust
in a heartbeat on this - he would be such a "3rd party". he's young,
he's interesting, he knows this stuff and he'd make an excellent
gitHub guy, he does that already. last ol'thunk heard he's busy as
heck, however.

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 3:09:38 PM4/6/10
to
Miese
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=miese

whoops!

ol' thunk can type too fast for his brain, and the spelling checker
says ok - he goes on and so things like inexperienced can become
experienced zB and since he's sorta already got multiple sources for
words saying "send me" it all gets confusing - and if ol thunk slows
down and makes it all proper it takes hours and ends up not being what
he wanted to say anyway.... but being faster than these spelling
checked text fields is rather a thing to be proud of in one way?

sorry about all that..................

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 3:19:28 PM4/6/10
to

AND

Rather the best thing that could happen is that this "thing" gets
planted in a Heruko garden and becomes a LIVING CLONE of the latest
evolving version while an earlier release or such could be the public
one.

THAT WOULD give more without a penny being spent until such time as it
is time to chat business and would be what it is - BUT the engine for
a viable on going effort, books, the right folks doing the right
things

THAT WOULD MAKE THE MOST SENSE TO OL THUNK. how does one call
heruko? there is no telephone # and how much chance would ol' thunk
have to speak to the right people??

but in one heartbeat - a done deal - ol' thunk would be pedaling his
flying pigeon 50# double bar pig carrying capable bike in LA for as
long as it takes.


thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 3:30:28 PM4/6/10
to

about the "demo system" that is sitting there to be done in not too
much time....
I'm talking a week or two?

1. The RUBY programmer would have a Module to put his
"HelperClasses"

2. the RUBY programmer would have an online manual to follow certain
conventions like the '?' at the end of Assertion methods and such as
that (not too tough, not too many - the UrHelperClass keeps it going)

3. that is how the RUBY programmer would program (and that could be
evolved but let's keep this simple to start with)

4. now the RUBY programmer OR anybody anywhere anytime with a
browser (or a Handy) could cause "Ru'ids" to be created into that same
cloud space garden thingy - pond? -

5. Now anybody with a standard "SwarmReader" module (almost trivial
at the basic level) could get pinged by any Ru'id that get's its
little flag in a twist!

that would be one way to put the pieces together, anyway....


Josh Cheek

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Apr 6, 2010, 3:45:43 PM4/6/10
to
[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Seriously -.^

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/4913/screenshot20100406at241.png

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 4:03:00 PM4/6/10
to

Josh,

you go to great effort to help a novice programmer, right?


so you have this 32+ plus year programmer that has seen a few things,
helped grown a new industry (first bitmapped, first DB'd, first new
class of product) and he IS NOT ABOUT selling anything.....

and you don't know how to deal with an "outlier", but how else would
you explain this, huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier

and ol' thunk is not ashamed of this

or should he be?

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 4:41:56 PM4/6/10
to

Josh, guys,


Try this on?

Ol thunk was doing "inter-Corporation" to factories in the 80's & 90's
what you guys are rather "doing to the world". We had DOS which was
solid enough and the job got done. Along came windoz and thunk walked
off, but he didn't die... he did Smalltalk, and kept himself
entertained doing micro-spits on ceramic substrates and such at places
like Alfred University Innovation Center and such..

THEN ol'thunk is looking over books at a Barnes & Noble and it is
about "Ruby" and he is rather - re-incarnated so to say. He goes off
and works and plays with some ruff-dogs in CO and gets some idea of
how the new world is shaped (Thank you Alcott) and he does some
Craigslist, finds some people in Berlin (his secret world capital) and
runs 3 official packages past a interesting couple people and he
senses ho-hum (he does this kinda thing - he was in business 15 - 30
years) and wings on a #4 which is this "shopping basket" idea.

He pushes a lot of code around even in his advancing years, goes
through the nights and piece by piece a puzzle emerges - all kinds of
things about "Systems" - recognizing one, diagnosing one, BUT his DSL
trick of Old blows up into a complex monster despite his very best
efforts, and despite that fact that Wisconsin hands him lot of cold,
windy nights to just do what he does.

A NEW approach, like 180 degrees opposite occurs to him using some
rules, well he outlines maybe 10 things that would have to happen to
make that come together, AND RUBY DOES THAT AND GOES ON TO SAY "hey, I
can do this too" - like those Simpleton Methods - wow -and a real guru
or two (amazing ramazians mostly) helps him along and a critique his
code and tell him - if you feel an urge to do a switch statement ol
timer - call me - those are tot/dead (they all seem to be germans) and
so the whole thing goes on - this is 3 years - and there is pressure
and there isn't - up here a good job ain't that good - there was a
consulting gig for a big yacht company and CNNs stuff for the British
owners - not without just changing the whole way they build their
boats - but the software they could use didn't fit with anything
except CinCom and.... but I digress.

So, saying this is not about RUBY doesn't fly

And saying this is about SALES - or BOOKS (mr ryan) would not be true

And saying this is just a waste of time, will be true if a connection
can't be made - but ol'thunk could headbutt with the Terminator. and
win. but he's really not into repeating himself to people that glaze
over, and you dear people do not strike me as that type, but maybe
this is the new world...and the old world is listening??


Josh Cheek

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Apr 6, 2010, 4:43:03 PM4/6/10
to
[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

I don't know what you're talking about, my point is that you are spamming.

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 4:52:48 PM4/6/10
to

what the devil is thunk spamming??

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 4:53:43 PM4/6/10
to


CAN ONE REALLY "SPAM" AN IDEA??

Rimantas Liubertas

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Apr 6, 2010, 5:22:56 PM4/6/10
to
> CAN ONE REALLY "SPAM" AN IDEA??

There is no idea, just spam.


Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 5:23:21 PM4/6/10
to
In statistics, an outlier[1] is an observation that is numerically
distant from the rest of the data. Grubbs[2] defined an outlier as:

An outlying observation, or outlier, is one that appears to
deviate markedly from other members of the sample in which it occurs.

Outliers can occur by chance in any distribution, but they are often
indicative either of **MEASUREMENT ERROR** or that the population has
a heavy-tailed distribution. In the former case one wishes to discard
them or use statistics that are robust to outliers, while in the
latter case they indicate that the distribution has high kurtosis and
that one should be very cautious in using tool or intuitions that
assume a normal distribution. A frequent cause of outliers is a
mixture of two distributions, which may be two distinct sub-
populations, or may indicate 'correct trial' versus 'measurement
error'; this is modeled by a mixture mod


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier

Mario Antonetti

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Apr 6, 2010, 5:25:50 PM4/6/10
to
[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:55 PM, thunk <gmko...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> CAN ONE REALLY "SPAM" AN IDEA??
>

> Yes. All communication is representations of an idea, so all spam is idea
spam.

thunk

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Apr 6, 2010, 5:56:48 PM4/6/10
to
On Apr 6, 4:25 pm, Mario Antonetti <mjtan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:55 PM, thunk <gmkol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > CAN ONE REALLY "SPAM" AN IDEA??
>
> > Yes.  All communication is representations of an idea, so all spam is idea
>
> spam.

Yes. All communication is representations of an idea, so all spam is
idea


amazing!

and does it follows somehow, that all ideas/concepts are spam?

then some of you guys are safe enough
but a couple of us may not agree

Ryan Davis

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Apr 6, 2010, 6:10:07 PM4/6/10
to

Ryan Davis

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Apr 6, 2010, 6:10:29 PM4/6/10