Python and Eclipse

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Joseph A Knapka

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Jun 25, 2002, 1:09:53 AM6/25/02
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Hi folks,

I am interested in having Python support in
Eclipse <URL: http://www.eclipse.org> - interested
enough to contribute code, or to tackle the
task myself, if need be. Of course, I'd like
the Python support to be at least as good as the
Java support, which is a pretty tall order,
'cause the Java support in Eclipse is awfully
damn good --- it nearly allows me to *enjoy*
writing Java code :-)

Anyway, I know some other folks have expressed
interest in this as well, and I'd like to hook
up with them. If you're working on Python+Eclipse
and you've got code in any state of completion,
I'm willing to alpha- or beta-test, fix stuff,
add new stuff, etc.

Cheers,

-- Joe
"It was me, drove off the offramp / of the
sweetheart highway..."
-- Joe Strummer & The Mescaleros, "Bummed-Out City"

Gerhard Kalab

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Jun 25, 2002, 8:07:40 AM6/25/02
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Joseph A Knapka <jkn...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3D17FAF4...@earthlink.net>...

> I am interested in having Python support in
> Eclipse <URL: http://www.eclipse.org> - interested

Have a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/rubyeclipse.
I replaced all occurrences of "Ruby" with "Python" and it works quite
well :)

Unfortunately it's under the GPL and I'd like a python integration
based on a different license (IBM Public License or Python License).

So I started to play with the wizards in eclipse and I've got a
working python editor (only with some sort of syntax hightlighting)
for now.

Gerhard

Cameron Laird

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Jun 25, 2002, 8:33:14 AM6/25/02
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In article <3D17FAF4...@earthlink.net>,

Joseph A Knapka <jkn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>I am interested in having Python support in
>Eclipse <URL: http://www.eclipse.org> - interested
>enough to contribute code, or to tackle the
>task myself, if need be. Of course, I'd like
>the Python support to be at least as good as the
>Java support, which is a pretty tall order,
>'cause the Java support in Eclipse is awfully
>damn good --- it nearly allows me to *enjoy*
>writing Java code :-)
>
>Anyway, I know some other folks have expressed
>interest in this as well, and I'd like to hook
>up with them. If you're working on Python+Eclipse
>and you've got code in any state of completion,
>I'm willing to alpha- or beta-test, fix stuff,
>add new stuff, etc.
.
.
.
Can you say a few more words about Eclipse? It ... well, I'm
wary. I understand its marketing more than its technology,
and on hostile days, I think it's *only* marketing. Maybe you
can make it more appealing. "[It] nearly allows me to *enjoy*
writing Java ..." is certainly a good start.
--

Cameron Laird <Cam...@Lairds.com>
Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html

Simon Brunning

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Jun 25, 2002, 8:22:02 AM6/25/02
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> From: cla...@starbase.neosoft.com [SMTP:cla...@starbase.neosoft.com]

> Can you say a few more words about Eclipse? It ... well, I'm
> wary. I understand its marketing more than its technology,
> and on hostile days, I think it's *only* marketing. Maybe you
> can make it more appealing. "[It] nearly allows me to *enjoy*
> writing Java ..." is certainly a good start.

I use Eclipse as my day-to-day Java IDE. It is just superb. If you need to
hack on Java, give it a try. I promise you, it's worthwhile.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbru...@trisystems.co.uk


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Lothar Scholz

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Jun 25, 2002, 9:46:06 AM6/25/02
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On 25 Jun 2002 07:33:14 -0500, cla...@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron
Laird) wrote:

Yes and thats why i'm not sure about the future of Eclipse. At
the moment its nothing else then IBM's way to force (enterprise)
developers using there Websphere Application Server - and
in a second step sell there consultants. If they not succeed with
this they will drop support as fast as you can shake your head.

I worked to much with IBM and there breakthrough technologies
like DSOM, OpenDoc or OS/2 to see that IBM can decide from
one day to another that a technologie is dead.

And you can't maintain a system like Eclipse with volunteers only.
All larger OS projects showed this.

And by the way i can't see a real difference between Eclipse, JBuilder
IntelliJ, CodeGuide or Netbeans for a person who is not developing
Enterprise Java Beans. They only prove one thing about globalization:
It makes the few products that survive look like twins or better
clones.

Thomas Guettler

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Jun 25, 2002, 11:01:42 AM6/25/02
to
Joseph A Knapka wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I am interested in having Python support in
> Eclipse <URL: http://www.eclipse.org> - interested
> enough to contribute code, or to tackle the
> task myself, if need be. Of course, I'd like
> the Python support to be at least as good as the
> Java support, which is a pretty tall order,
> 'cause the Java support in Eclipse is awfully
> damn good --- it nearly allows me to *enjoy*
> writing Java code :-)


Can someone tell me what eclipse is about?

Someone said it is IBM's intend spread the use of
WebSphere and someone else said it is an IDE.

The homepage does not say much, exept that a lot of
big company are in this consortium.

I wonder why SUN is not in the concortium.

thomas

Simon Brunning

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Jun 25, 2002, 11:06:45 AM6/25/02
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> From: Thomas Guettler [SMTP:zopes...@thomas-guettler.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:02 PM

> Can someone tell me what eclipse is about?
>
> Someone said it is IBM's intend spread the use of
> WebSphere and someone else said it is an IDE.

Hmmm. It's basically a framework for building IDEs, and other things. It
ships with a plug in which makes it into a Java IDE, which as I said, is
superb. IBM is using the Eclipse framework for the next generation of its
WebSphere Studio tools, and that is what IBM are in it for. But other tools
vendors are also basing tools on Eclipse.

I cover Eclipse quite a lot in my web log,
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/>.

Joseph A Knapka

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Jun 25, 2002, 12:30:02 PM6/25/02
to

I don't know about the marketing angle. I've
been using Visual Age for the past few years,
and IMO, after having used Eclipse for just
a couple of weeks, it is a great deal better
than Visual Age as an IDE. True, it doesn't
do visual UI layout, but I must say that VA's
UI builder never caused me anything but
grief anyhow. Someone could add a UI builder
to Eclipse if they wanted. Eclipse does everything
else as well as or better than VA - syntax-
aware editing, including context-sensitive
completion (definitely better than VA's!),
incremental compilation, debugging, edit-
compile-and-continue in the debugger...

Eclipse feels more solid than either
Visual Age or MS Visual Studio - I have had
no crashes or anomalous behavior while
using Eclipse rather intensively over the
past couple of weeks, save for an episode
yesterday that I believe was triggered by
a low-VM condition caused by another
process. Eclipse nevertheless exited
cleanly and saved my work, which is something
I have *not* come to expect from Visual Age.

Eclipse does like to have RAM to play in -
the Eclipse JVM on my NT laptop is currently
about 60MB large. Of course, Visual
[Age|Studio] have similar RAM demands.

Eclipse is open source, so no matter what
IBM decides, interested parties could pick
it up and run if necessary. It is designed
to be a platform upon which to build various
IDEs. It seems to be quite well documented
for IDE extension developers, although I
have not actually written any such extension
yet, so the perceived documentation quality
may be illusory.

I have not tried JBuilder. All my Java
work prior to Eclipse was done either in
Visual Age or at the command line, and
I strongly prefer Eclipse over either of
those other methods. For the price, it's
hard to beat.

-- Joe
"This is Radio Clash / using audio ammunition."
-- The Clash, "Radio Clash"

Paolo Invernizzi

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Jun 25, 2002, 1:24:31 PM6/25/02
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> Eclipse is open source, so no matter what
> IBM decides, interested parties could pick
> it up and run if necessary.

I've read the licence, I've understood that I can release product based
on Eclipse, either commercially, either compiled, preserving the
copyright note and a link to original eclipse source... but I'm a
terrible reader of license-style document! Someone can confirm this?

> I have not tried JBuilder.

I worked with jbuilder 5 for about 6 mnts, and I feel Eclipse is far
superior. I love the refactoring tools, but I still whisper for a form
builder plugin...(and Borland is a master in this field!)

Concerning elipse and python, I think there are 2 roads.
The first one is using jpe (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe) the
python-java framework. I've tried it some time ago... and I managed to
execute python code from a java VM (a jython prompt in reality! ;) but
I stopped there. Perhaps Frederic Giacometti and jython folks can give
some help!

The second one is to use socket (is possible?) to connect to a python
server application... (with the plus that switching various python
versions is very easy)... and move some logic in python (fast
development times ;)

The problem, as usual It's that I have no time ;(

Cya
Paolo Invernizzi

Joseph A Knapka

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Jun 25, 2002, 4:24:39 PM6/25/02
to
Paolo Invernizzi wrote:
> Concerning elipse and python, I think there are 2 roads.
> The first one is using jpe (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe) the
> python-java framework. I've tried it some time ago... and I managed to
> execute python code from a java VM (a jython prompt in reality! ;) but
> I stopped there. Perhaps Frederic Giacometti and jython folks can give
> some help!
>
> The second one is to use socket (is possible?) to connect to a python
> server application... (with the plus that switching various python
> versions is very easy)... and move some logic in python (fast
> development times ;)
>
> The problem, as usual It's that I have no time ;(

I think the latter is the best way. It's not clear, though,
that these are the only two roads. But in any case, we must
IMO be able to debug code under any Python version, preferably
selectable among a number of different installed versions
on the same machine (Eclipse allows this with the JVM, so
I don't see why it would be a problem for Python). That
way we could support CPython and Jython equally well.

Another poster suggests that the Ruby Eclipse plug-in
would be a good place to start, and I'm going to have
a look at that later this week.

-- Joe
"Many ways to get what you want / I use the best /
I use the rest!"
-- Sex Pistols, "Anarchy in the UK"

Paolo Invernizzi

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Jun 26, 2002, 3:19:58 AM6/26/02
to
Joseph A Knapka wrote:

> I think the latter is the best way. It's not clear, though,
> that these are the only two roads. But in any case, we must
> IMO be able to debug code under any Python version, preferably
> selectable among a number of different installed versions
> on the same machine (Eclipse allows this with the JVM, so
> I don't see why it would be a problem for Python). That
> way we could support CPython and Jython equally well.

This night I remembered another tip... pyro,
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/ ,a distributed framework, has
jython/cpython client and cpython server.
I think this is an attractive choice. The first step can be implement a
native support for jython, endebbing a jython interpreter in the plugin,
and then use it as a bridge for external cpython server via pyro...
But I remember that when I tried to compile/manage the jython code via
eclipse, I bounced against ANT wierdness (I haven't used ant at all in
my previous java works...)

Cya
Paolo Invernizzi

Gerhard Kalab

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Jul 9, 2002, 4:14:54 AM7/9/02
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Joseph A Knapka <jkn...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3D18D159...@earthlink.net>...

> Paolo Invernizzi wrote:
> > Concerning elipse and python, I think there are 2 roads.
> > The first one is using jpe (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe) the
> > python-java framework. I've tried it some time ago... and I managed to
> > execute python code from a java VM (a jython prompt in reality! ;) but
> > I stopped there. Perhaps Frederic Giacometti and jython folks can give
> > some help!
> >
> > The second one is to use socket (is possible?) to connect to a python
> > server application... (with the plus that switching various python
> > versions is very easy)... and move some logic in python (fast
> > development times ;)
> >
> > The problem, as usual It's that I have no time ;(
>
> I think the latter is the best way. It's not clear, though,
> that these are the only two roads. But in any case, we must
> IMO be able to debug code under any Python version, preferably
> selectable among a number of different installed versions
> on the same machine (Eclipse allows this with the JVM, so
> I don't see why it would be a problem for Python). That
> way we could support CPython and Jython equally well.
>

I've had a quick look at HAP remote debugger and it looks promising.
The client part has to be compiled whith each CPython version. I don't
know about Jython. IMHO it's the fastest way to get startet since the
client portion can be used immediately.

I've put something to start at
http://www.kalab.com/freeware/pythoneclipse/pythoneclipse.htm
Included is an incomplete Python editor and the possibility to launch
Python scripts. Currently it's only possible to specify one python
interpreter for the launch configurations.

Gerhard

Christophe Elek

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Jul 9, 2002, 9:05:08 AM7/9/02
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ka...@gmx.net (Gerhard Kalab) wrote in news:bf340738.0207090014.7fd2a74
@posting.google.com:

> http://www.kalab.com/freeware/pythoneclipse/pythoneclipse.htm

send a note to eclipse.org to have it listed

--
Christophe Elek
Eclipse Project
http://www.eclipse.org

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