Real programming: Psion and Python
Sven Havemann
========
> Have you had any contact with Duncan who made the Python port to the Psion
> 5? I emailed him a few months back asking about the development status (and
> offering help), but nothing came back.
>
> The more I use python on the psion, the more I wished it had a few more
> features (more modules, an editor...), but as you posted in the news group,
> http://dales.rmplc.co.uk/Duncan/PyPsion.htm hasn't been changed for quite
> some time.
I have the same feeling concerning missing python features, but I'm
sorry, I haven't had any recent news from Duncan for quite a while,
that's to say he didn't react on the newsgroup posting of mine you
mentioned. That's quite a pity.
I seems that the intersection set of psion owners WITH SDK and python
users is very small, not to say empty. - Maybe Duncan is afraid of
actually having to support PyPsion, so it would be a good idea, maybe,
to ask for people willing to continue his work. Maybe he'd give his
project files for the Psion SDK to somebody who'd continue his work?
Unfortunately, I don't have neither the SDK, nor the time to actually
organize this project...
TO ALL PSION USERS: FORGET ABOUT OPL!!!
PYTHON IS THE ONLY REASONABLE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE FOR THE PSION 5!
SEE: http://www.python.org
Best regards, Sven.
--
__________________________________________________________________
dipl-inform. Sven Havemann Institut fuer ComputerGraphik
Odastrasse 6 Rebenring 18
38122 Braunschweig - Germany 38106 Braunschweig - Germany
Tel. 0531/2808955 Tel. 0531/391-2108, Fax: -2103
s.hav...@tu-bs.de http://www.cg.cs.tu-bs.de
Tyler Thueson
No thanks. :)
> PYTHON IS THE ONLY REASONABLE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE FOR THE PSION 5!
> SEE: http://www.python.org
Python looks like a very nice system, but I think that OPL is excellently
suited to its purpose. Considering its very large software library and
installed user base it is not logical to argue for another language to replace
it. But augment? Enhance? Sure.
--
Tyler Thueson
SIBO Shareware author: http://netnow.micron.net/~tylernt
(spam trap in email reply address)
Everything I need to know about life I learned from taglines.
Ifyoucanreadthis,youspendtoomuchtimefiguringouttaglines.
Tiamat
huh! you underestimate the parsing ability of the human brain - I read it
faster than I would have were there spaces.
Duncan Booth
>Hi Rhys!
>========
>
>> Have you had any contact with Duncan who made the Python port to the Psion
>> 5? I emailed him a few months back asking about the development status (and
>> offering help), but nothing came back.
>>
>> The more I use python on the psion, the more I wished it had a few more
>> features (more modules, an editor...), but as you posted in the news group,
>> http://dales.rmplc.co.uk/Duncan/PyPsion.htm hasn't been changed for quite
>> some time.
>
>I have the same feeling concerning missing python features, but I'm
>sorry, I haven't had any recent news from Duncan for quite a while,
>that's to say he didn't react on the newsgroup posting of mine you
>mentioned. That's quite a pity.
>
>I seems that the intersection set of psion owners WITH SDK and python
>users is very small, not to say empty. - Maybe Duncan is afraid of
>actually having to support PyPsion, so it would be a good idea, maybe,
>to ask for people willing to continue his work. Maybe he'd give his
>project files for the Psion SDK to somebody who'd continue his work?
>
>Unfortunately, I don't have neither the SDK, nor the time to actually
>organize this project...
>
>
>
Hi, I am still around, but sometimes forget to reply to emails. I must have
missed the newsgroup posting you mentioned.
What I haven't had for some time, is any spare time to work on this. I guess
the main catch is that most of the other people out there don't have the SDK,
so that makes it hard to farm out bits of work. The other thing that makes it
hard is that, at least for now, you cant put Python extensions into DLLs on
the Psion which means you have to statically link in everything.
I am happy to give copies of the project files to anyone who does have an SDK.
Perhaps if there are some people with the Evaluation SDK (of dubious
legality), they could do some work and return the code to me for final
compilation.
There has actually been one minimal update to the version on my website. After
some justified nagging, I fixed the bug that stopped Python being installed on
drive D: so you can now install it on any drive and it will expect to find the
lib files on the same drive.
--
Duncan Booth dun...@dales.rmplc.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?
http://dales.rmplc.co.uk/Duncan
Brian Ritchie - remove 'no f***ing junk' acronym to reply
> > TO ALL PSION USERS: FORGET ABOUT OPL!!!
>
> No thanks. :)
Agreed. There are *some* programming languages I'd like to forget all about,
but can't :-) But OPL and Python aren't two of them.
> > PYTHON IS THE ONLY REASONABLE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE FOR THE PSION 5!
> > SEE: http://www.python.org
>
> Python looks like a very nice system, but I think that OPL is excellently
> suited to its purpose. Considering its very large software library and
> installed user base it is not logical to argue for another language to replace
> it. But augment? Enhance? Sure.
Indeed. Horses for courses. I use Python to do lots of text-file
munging (including mass modifications to Data files: export as text,
munge, import into fresh file) and a few (Unix) grep-like things on
directories; but OPL32 is still the bee's knees (sorry non-English
speakers:-) for most other things I want to do, not least those that
involve interaction other than tty-based!
(If anyone has managed to get a Python prog that supplies an
EPOC-style GUI (or *any* GUI, come to think of it!) running on the S5,
I'd love to know how!)
--
Dr. Brian Ritchie, W3 Group, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, UK
<http://www.dci.clrc.ac.uk/Person.asp?B.Ritchie>
Duncan Booth
>(If anyone has managed to get a Python prog that supplies an
>EPOC-style GUI (or *any* GUI, come to think of it!) running on the S5,
>I'd love to know how!)
Michael Vezie
Duncan Booth <dun...@rcp.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <vkg19cl...@rl.ac.uk>, b.ri...@rnfjl.ac.uk (Brian Ritchie - remove 'no f***ing junk' acronym to reply) wrote:
>>(If anyone has managed to get a Python prog that supplies an
>>EPOC-style GUI (or *any* GUI, come to think of it!) running on the S5,
>>I'd love to know how!)
>I haven't, but I do have various ideas how to do it.
One other nice thing would be to get Python .pyc files to be runnable
directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be trivial).
If that's impossible, then I wonder how dangerous a thought it is to
consider a different .pyc format for the Psion (are .pyc files ever
distributed without the .py file)?
Michael
Mark Hammond
> directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
> magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
> then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be
trivial).
> If that's impossible, then I wonder how dangerous a thought it is to
> consider a different .pyc format for the Psion (are .pyc files ever
> distributed without the .py file)?
We are doing just this for Windows CE. Only .pyc files are installed on
the device, and it allows you to either import them or run them as scripts.
A quick DejaNews search turned up code by Chris Tismer (relating to Apace)
which I then converted. From C code, PyRun_AnyFile also runs .pyc files as
"scripts"...
[Just finished working on this yesterday :-]
Mark.
John Forrest
Michael Vezie wrote in message <795bbl$8r1$1...@shell5.ba.best.com>...
>In article <77vnfm$jkm$1...@panther.rmplc.co.uk>,
>
>One other nice thing would be to get Python .pyc files to be runnable
>directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
>magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
>then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be trivial).
EPOC is not that simplistic, but it is an urban myth that the EPOC system
can't cope with files identified by suffix alone. Afterall, it can deal with
.exe files that have no appropriate UIDs. Somebody just has to write a
recogniser....
John
Fred Pacquier
>
>One other nice thing would be to get Python .pyc files to be runnable
>directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
>magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
>then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be trivial).
>consider a different .pyc format for the Psion (are .pyc files ever
>distributed without the .py file)?
>
BSCW come to mind, although that would have nothing to do on a Psion :-).
Rather than modify the files themselves, which seems a bad idea for a
croos-platform thing, it might be better to modify the OS behaviour. There was
a thread recently in the Psion groups that seems to indicate it _is_ indeed
possible to teach EPOC to associate file extensions with programs after all,
by installing the appropriate patch. Claim is the Message Suite does exactly
that, as unmodified text files are opened in the browser after installation.
Duncan Booth
>Duncan Booth <dun...@rcp.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <vkg19cl...@rl.ac.uk>, b.ri...@rnfjl.ac.uk (Brian Ritchie -
> remove 'no f***ing junk' acronym to reply) wrote:
>>>(If anyone has managed to get a Python prog that supplies an
>>>EPOC-style GUI (or *any* GUI, come to think of it!) running on the S5,
>>>I'd love to know how!)
>>I haven't, but I do have various ideas how to do it.
>
>
>directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
>magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
>then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be trivial).
>If that's impossible, then I wonder how dangerous a thought it is to
>consider a different .pyc format for the Psion (are .pyc files ever
>distributed without the .py file)?
>
What I am currently trying to do is:
a) Get a text editor together that edits something that is basically a text
file with a set of Psion UIDs as a header.
b) Modify Python.exe to skip the UIDs when reading a source file, if they are
present (sort of like -x, but different).
c) Make the editor recognise a first line of the format:
#!Python someargs
as being a request to invoke python, and in that case run it instead of
editing when invoked directly from the shell.
I could make it do something similar for .pyc files, but if you don't want to
distribute the source, you can distribute a source file which simply imports
the real application, so it probably isn't essential to be able to run .pyc
files directly.
At the moment I'm slightly stuck on (a). It's one of those Epoc development
issues where you take a working program, make a pile of changes, and end up
with something that panics in an obscure place for no discernable reason.
Duncan Booth
>
>Michael Vezie wrote in message <795bbl$8r1$1...@shell5.ba.best.com>...
>>In article <77vnfm$jkm$1...@panther.rmplc.co.uk>,
>
>>
>>directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
>>magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
>>then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be trivial).
>
>can't cope with files identified by suffix alone. Afterall, it can deal with
>recogniser....
>
As far as I can tell, while it should be possible to do a recogniser for a
particular file extension, there is no way to associate an icon with a file
unless it has the UID block at the beginning. If anyone knows differently, I
would be very interested to know how.
John Forrest
Duncan Booth wrote in message <7994h8$50q$1...@panther.rmplc.co.uk>...
>As far as I can tell, while it should be possible to do a recogniser for a
>particular file extension, there is no way to associate an icon with a file
>unless it has the UID block at the beginning. If anyone knows differently,
I
>would be very interested to know how.
I believe that is correct.
John
Duncan Booth
..snip...
>I guess you guys all mean "Psion 5" when saying "Psion", right?
Actually I mean EPOC (or EPOC32 as it was known) devices. I'll try to be less
inaccurate next time.
> Dont forget
>that 80% of all Psions are not Psion 5. And tell me how you intend to run
>python on a Series 3.
Well, first we have to find someone with the Series 3 SDK...
>
>Regards,
> Fionn (3a/3c owner with SDK)
Aha!
Next you download the source and start work on it... :-)
I suspect the Series 3 may be a little short on memory (come to that, the
Series 5 is a little short on memory for this stuff unless you have a chunky
CF card).
Dr. Peter Stoehr
maybe that's the wrong newsgroup, but as a Python-devoted person looking
for a "small computer" I'm very interessted in this discussion.
One thing I'd like to know is, how much does this SDK cost and what
"host"-systems are supported ?
Thanks in advance
Peter
> > >>(If anyone has managed to get a Python prog that supplies an
> > >>EPOC-style GUI (or *any* GUI, come to think of it!) running on the S5,
> > >>I'd love to know how!)
> > >I haven't, but I do have various ideas how to do it.
> >
> > One other nice thing would be to get Python .pyc files to be runnable
> > directly on the Psion. This might be possible if the pyc file has a
> > magic number at the front that happens to match python (which would
> > then have to support opening a file in that way, which should be trivial).
> > If that's impossible, then I wonder how dangerous a thought it is to
> > consider a different .pyc format for the Psion (are .pyc files ever
> > distributed without the .py file)?
>
> I guess you guys all mean "Psion 5" when saying "Psion", right? Dont forget
> that 80% of all Psions are not Psion 5. And tell me how you intend to run
> python on a Series 3.
>
--
Dr. Peter Stoehr mailto:peter....@sdm.de
sd&m GmbH & Co. KG http://www.sdm.de
software design & management
Thomas-Dehler-Strasse 27, D-81737 Muenchen, Germany
Tel +49 89 63812-783
John Forrest
Dr. Peter Stoehr wrote in message <36BAF859...@sdm.de>...
>Hi all,
>
>maybe that's the wrong newsgroup, but as a Python-devoted person looking
>for a "small computer" I'm very interessted in this discussion.
>One thing I'd like to know is, how much does this SDK cost and what
>"host"-systems are supported ?
The EPOC C++ SDK is about Ł200. On top of that you need Visual C++ v5, but
you only actually need the development environment. It runs under 95/98 but
Symbian recommend NT.
John
jeff...@bigfoot.com
> Dr. Peter Stoehr wrote in message <36BAF859...@sdm.de>...
> >for a "small computer" I'm very interessted in this discussion.
> >One thing I'd like to know is, how much does this SDK cost and what
> >"host"-systems are supported ?
>
> you only actually need the development environment. It runs under 95/98 but
> Symbian recommend NT.
Not wanting to step on any Psion users toes, but a reminder to
CE owners that they can develop Python applications on CE for
free. Mark Hammond has just swigged most of the Win32 api, and
is bringing the CE and Win32 code closer to unification.
Of course C/C++ CE SDK costs are similar to what John describes
for the Psion <sigh>.
Relevant links:
http://www.digicool.com/~brian/PythonCE/
http://starship.skyport.net/crew/mhammond/ce/
http://www.egroups.com/list/python-ce/
Jeff Bauer
Rubicon, Inc.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Duncan Booth
>Again, you are talking about the Psion5 SDK, which is EPOC32 without
>mentioning. Even if you cant imagine there are still Psion 3 users. The EPOC16
>SDK for the Series 3xx is priced similarly.
Just so we can all get the terminology straight:
The current names used by Symbian for the two systems are EPOC (the 32 bit
system used by Psion 5), and SIBO (the 16 bit system used by Series 3). These
were formerly known as EPOC32 and EPOC16 respectively.
So if someone writes about EPOC without otherwise qualifying it, they
should mean the 32 bit system.
Duncan Booth
>I would say it is near to impossble to make sensible use of python on a Series
>3xx Psion.
Thanks for the info, I thought that was probably the case.
>
>P.S.: I really dont like being mailed with copies of news posts. Thanks.
Ok, I'll try to remember not to CC you in future.