Trying tcompile an use the Python 3.4a

[Ferrous Cranus]

$ mkdir temp
$ cd temp
$ wget http://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4/Python-3.4.tar.bz2
$ tar -xjvf Python-3.4.tar.bz2
$ cd Python-3.3.2
$ ./configure
$ make && make test
$ su
# make install
# exit
$ $ cd ../ && rm -rf Python-3.4


root@secure [/home/nikos/www/cgi-bin]# python3 -V
Python 3.4.0a4


can yu please tell me where python 3.4a was placed in the system?

i tried

#!/usr/bin/python3
#!/usr/local/bin/python3

and also is there a way to call it like #!/usr/bin/python

i know it can be done via ln 0s but i have to know where the newest
python got installed.

Thank you.

[Ferrous Cranus]

I also tried to install pip and easy_install on my CentOS but could not
find them.

How can I install them?

Also, I have two versions of Python, 2.6.6 and 3.4a. How will pip make
sure to link newly installed components with Python 3.4a ?

[Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick]

> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

The command you are looking for is: which python3
Alternatively, you could run `where python3` to see how big the mess
on your system is (i.e. how many interpreters you have).

--
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <http://kwpolska.tk>
PGP: 5EAAEA16
stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense

[Ferrous Cranus]

root@secure [~]# which python3
/usr/local/bin/python3
root@secure [~]# where pyhton3
-bash: where: command not found

also how can a link the newset python to just /usr/bin/python.
here is what i tried

root@secure [~]# ln -s /usr/local/bin/python3 /usr/bin/python
ln: creating symbolic link `/usr/bin/python': File exists
root@secure [~]#

[Ferrous Cranus]

Στις 13/11/2013 4:23 μμ, ο/η Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick έγραψε:

root@secure [~]# which python
/usr/bin/python

root@secure [~]# which python3
/usr/local/bin/python3

root@secure [~]# python -V
Python 2.6.6

root@secure [~]# python3 -V
Python 3.4.0a4
root@secure [~]#

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:26:37 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote:

> root@secure [~]# which python3
> /usr/local/bin/python3
> root@secure [~]# where pyhton3
> -bash: where: command not found

That just means that you don't have the "where" command installed. Oh
well, if it's not installed you can't use it. (I don't have it installed
on any of my systems either.)

> also how can a link the newset python to just /usr/bin/python.

Don't do that, you will break your system. The OS expects the python
command to be Python 2, not Python 3, and ESPECIALLY not an alpha-quality
version 3.4.

If you decide to ignore this advice, and break your system, don't bother
ask for help here. You won't get any from me.

> here is what i tried
>
> root@secure [~]# ln -s /usr/local/bin/python3 /usr/bin/python ln:
> creating symbolic link `/usr/bin/python': File exists root@secure [~]#

That's not a Python issue, that's a basic Linux sys admin issue. Go buy
yourself a book on Linux and study that. Or do some googling. Read the
man page for ln. Or just spend three seconds thinking about what an error
message like "File exists" could possibly mean.

Really Nikos, you're not a beginner at this. Your English is excellent.
Between simple logic and Google, you ought to be able to work out what
"File exists" means faster than writing a post and sending it here.


--
Steven

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:17:22 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote:

> $ mkdir temp
> $ cd temp
> $ wget http://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.4/Python-3.4.tar.bz2 $ tar
> -xjvf Python-3.4.tar.bz2
> $ cd Python-3.3.2
> $ ./configure
> $ make && make test
> $ su
> # make install
> # exit
> $ $ cd ../ && rm -rf Python-3.4
>
>
> root@secure [/home/nikos/www/cgi-bin]# python3 -V Python 3.4.0a4
>
>
> can yu please tell me where python 3.4a was placed in the system?
>
> i tried
>
> #!/usr/bin/python3
> #!/usr/local/bin/python3

And did they work? What result did you get? You've been here long enough
that you ought to know better than to post a question like this without
showing the actual error that you received.

> and also is there a way to call it like #!/usr/bin/python

Of course there is, but only if you wish to break your system. The OS
will be expecting /usr/bin/python to be Python 2. Leave it be.

> i know it can be done via ln 0s but i have to know where the newest
> python got installed.

Here's one way (although not the best):

sudo updatedb
locate python | grep bin

Or, you can start up the Python version of your choice, then do:


py> import sys
py> sys.executable
'/usr/local/bin/python2.5'


--
Steven

[Ferrous Cranus]

Στις 13/11/2013 6:13 μμ, ο/η Steven D'Aprano έγραψε:

>> and also is there a way to call it like #!/usr/bin/python
>
> Of course there is, but only if you wish to break your system. The OS
> will be expecting /usr/bin/python to be Python 2. Leave it be.

Okey i will leave it be although i dislike the idea of using the shebang
constructor as #~/usr/local/bin/python3

Is there any way that i can use it as it was #!/usr/bin/python but
firing python3 instead of python 2.6.6 ?

Also i'm tryong 'yum install python-pip' because some modules like
'pymysql' and 'pygeoip' are missing but CentOS doesn't seem able to
detect it.

Please help me install 'pip' so i can install the modules.

[Ned Batchelder]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:38:53 AM UTC-5, Ferrous Cranus wrote:
> Στις 13/11/2013 6:13 μμ, ο/η Steven D'Aprano έγραψε:
>
> >> and also is there a way to call it like #!/usr/bin/python
> >
> > Of course there is, but only if you wish to break your system. The OS
> > will be expecting /usr/bin/python to be Python 2. Leave it be.
>
> Okey i will leave it be although i dislike the idea of using the shebang
> constructor as #~/usr/local/bin/python3
>
> Is there any way that i can use it as it was #!/usr/bin/python but
> firing python3 instead of python 2.6.6 ?

No, you can't. "python" should mean Python 2.x. If you want to use Python 3, invoke it as "python3".

BUT: you should have a good reason to switch to Python 3. Your existing Python programs WILL NOT WORK with Python 3. They will require porting from Python 2 to Python 3, and that is not always a simple task, especially when you are dealing with text, such as on a web site.

I strongly recommend that you stay on Python 2, and focus on other concerns. "I want the latest Python" is probably not a good enough reason to switch.

--Ned.

[Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Ferrous Cranus <nikos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Στις 13/11/2013 6:13 μμ, ο/η Steven D'Aprano έγραψε:
>
>
>>> and also is there a way to call it like #!/usr/bin/python
>>
>>
>> Of course there is, but only if you wish to break your system. The OS
>> will be expecting /usr/bin/python to be Python 2. Leave it be.
>
>
> Okey i will leave it be although i dislike the idea of using the shebang
> constructor as #~/usr/local/bin/python3
> Is there any way that i can use it as it was #!/usr/bin/python but firing
> python3 instead of python 2.6.6 ?

You can link it to /usr/bin/python3. There should be no problem when
you do this.

> Also i'm tryong 'yum install python-pip' because some modules like 'pymysql'
> and 'pygeoip' are missing but CentOS doesn't seem able to detect it.

That should install it for the Python 2.6.6 you have, and possibly
under the name `python-pip` because of various shenanigans in the
redhatesque repos.

> Please help me install 'pip' so i can install the modules.

http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/installing.html#install-or-upgrade-setuptools

Get ez_setup.py and get-pip.py, and run them with the desired Python.

[Ferrous Cranus]

Why can't i just use that?

root@secure [~]# sudo yum install python-pip
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
* base: ftp.plusline.de
* extras: mirror.skylink-datacenter.de
* updates: ftp.plusline.de
base


| 3.7 kB 00:00
extras


| 3.4 kB 00:00
updates


| 3.4 kB 00:00
Setting up Install Process
No package python-pip available.
Error: Nothing to do
root@secure [~]#

'python-pip' is something that all repos should have, why it cannot be
found?

[Johannes Findeisen]

Please try to figure out your distribution specific stuff by
using a search engine! This was what I found as first result by
searching for "centos pip" at Google:

http://superuser.com/questions/292378/how-to-install-pip-and-easy-install-on-centos

This really is not a Python question but a CentOS issue!

Regards,
Johannes

[Ferrous Cranus]

I have foung this link myself in the morning but it wasnt successfull:

Look:

root@secure [~]# /usr/local/bin/easy_install pip
-bash: /usr/local/bin/easy_install: No such file or directory

root@secure [~]# /usr/bin/easy_install pip
-bash: /usr/bin/easy_install: No such file or directory

If i cannot use 'yum' or even 'easy_setup' how will i install 'pip' and
hence the modules?

[Ned Batchelder]

Nikos, we've talked about this before. These aren't Python questions. You need to fix your OS. We can't help you with that. I know you are frustrated and want answers, but you can't just post the same question here again and expect a response. You need to solve this some other way.

Asking over and over again will simply cause another fight on this list, and no one wants that. Find another way to solve your problem.

--Ned.

[Ferrous Cranus]

If i knew how to solve this Ned i wouldn't be asking you. My provider
haven't replied back to me.

Actually it is a python question regarding a python installation issue.
Is it so much trouble to help me with this?

[Mark Lawrence]

I really don't believe this, 24 lines above this one is the link to a
page telling you how to do it, but you're *STILL* asking!!! What do you
want, jam on it???

--
Python is the second best programming language in the world.
But the best has yet to be invented. Christian Tismer

Mark Lawrence

[Ferrous Cranus]

But i have gone to the link and did what it said and it didn't proved
usefull thats why i re-ask.

[Mark Lawrence]

Wrong. You've once again not bothered to read the information that's
been handed to you on a plate. If you'd followed the instructions you
would not get the "No such file or directory" error shown above. I'm
not going to spoon feed you, so please go away and sort this out for
yourself, we're sick to death of seeing you here.

[Johannes Findeisen]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 00:00:04 +0200
Ferrous Cranus wrote:

> Στις 13/11/2013 11:56 μμ, ο/η Mark Lawrence έγραψε:

<snip>

>
> But i have gone to the link and did what it said and it didn't proved
> usefull thats why i re-ask.

Try looking for a package named "setuptools". I think that is the
package you are missing for installing pip. I don't know anything about
the current CentOS release so may it will not be available via yum.

Good luck!

Regards,
Johannes

[Ned Batchelder]

On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:32:49 PM UTC-5, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Wrong. You've once again not bothered to read the information that's
> been handed to you on a plate. If you'd followed the instructions you
> would not get the "No such file or directory" error shown above. I'm
> not going to spoon feed you, so please go away and sort this out for
> yourself, we're sick to death of seeing you here.
>

> Mark Lawrence

Mark, language like that has no place on this list. Whatever problems are happening here, you are not helping to solve them. Please stop. Think about what you want this list to be like, and write when you can make a positive contribution to that effect.

http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

--Ned.

[Mark Lawrence]

Stop him and stop the spoon feeders and I stop. Simples. And we are
sick to death of seeing him here, don't you have the guts to say it like
it is?

[Denis McMahon]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:17:22 +0200, Ferrous Cranus wrote:

> root@secure [/home/nikos/www/cgi-bin]# python3 -V Python 3.4.0a4

Let me just check.

Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1]
are they?

[1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the
public internet upon which python code is executed in response to inputs
from the public internet.

--
Denis McMahon, denismf...@gmail.com

[Chris Angelico]

I don't know that that's necessarily stupid. For a lot of my work,
I've been using a trunk version of Pike (7.9.11 currently), and if I
were working more heavily with Python on my servers, I would consider
using alpha versions if there were features that I wanted (or fixes
that I needed). It's not stupid, but it does require a "hand on the
tiller" so to speak; running alpha code - or, for that matter, any
code you compiled yourself - in production means taking responsibility
for it. I'm confident of my own ability to keep up with changes, but
for most people, I would strongly recommend taking, in order: (1) the
Python that your distro provides; (2) a python.org published stable
version; (3) a preproduction (eg RC) version; and finally (4) anything
else, including straight from Mercurial. The further down that list
you go, the more work you have to do yourself to ensure compatibility,
dependency management, etcetera.

ChrisA

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:27:58 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Denis McMahon
> <denismf...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Nobody is so stupid as to run alpha software on a production server[1]
>> are they?
>>
>> [1] In this context, "production server" means any system facing the
>> public internet upon which python code is executed in response to
>> inputs from the public internet.

Surely the answer to that is, "define stupid"?

What are the consequences of breakage? If the consequences are minor, why
wouldn't I use alpha software? Hypothetically speaking, even if the
machine were totally compromised, I might just shrug and rebuild it
(hopefully having reported the security vulnerability that allowed the
compromise, and having it fixed).

But specifically in this case, I agree with your implication, and
question the wisdom of the OP upgrading from a stable version of 3.3 to
an alpha version of 3.4.

> I don't know that that's necessarily stupid. For a lot of my work, I've
> been using a trunk version of Pike (7.9.11 currently), and if I were
> working more heavily with Python on my servers, I would consider using
> alpha versions if there were features that I wanted (or fixes that I
> needed). It's not stupid, but it does require a "hand on the tiller" so
> to speak; running alpha code - or, for that matter, any code you
> compiled yourself - in production means taking responsibility for it.

Yes, this! A master craftsman knows when to break the rules. I personally
would not run a public web app using alpha software because I know my
limitations, but I'm sure there are those who have both the skill to
manage it and the wisdom to know whether or not to risk it.

> I'm confident of my own ability to keep up with changes, but for most
> people, I would strongly recommend taking, in order: (1) the Python that
> your distro provides; (2) a python.org published stable version; (3) a
> preproduction (eg RC) version; and finally (4) anything else, including
> straight from Mercurial. The further down that list you go, the more
> work you have to do yourself to ensure compatibility, dependency
> management, etcetera.

+1


--
Steven

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp....@pearwood.info> wrote:
> Yes, this! A master craftsman knows when to break the rules. I personally
> would not run a public web app using alpha software because I know my

> limitations...

+1. Plenty of people know that a master knows when to break the
rules... the flip side is that a master also knows when NOT to break
the rules. I'll run a trunk build of Pike, and I might of Python, but
I wouldn't run a pre-alpha version of Apache, nor of the Linux kernel,
nor pretty much anything else on my system. That is, not in
production. There are all sorts of things that I'll happily do in a
VM, where the consequences of totally hosing the system are "Oh dear,
now I have to restore from a snapshot". :)

For what it's worth, I've been running 3.4 builds for a while - not in
production, but only because my production box is actually a rather
ancient and very stable machine and I have no reason yet to change
anything. It's looking fairly good, but I'd say the change from 3.3 to
3.4 is a lot less exciting for me than the change from 3.2 to 3.3.
(Though asyncio may invert that valuation, once I dig into it enough
to find out how fun it is.)

ChrisA

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 09:29:38 -0800, Ned Batchelder wrote:

> I strongly recommend that you stay on Python 2, and focus on other
> concerns.

Nikos has been using Python 3.3 for his website for months now.


--
Steven

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:10:09 +0000, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Stop him and stop the spoon feeders and I stop. Simples.

Oh, why didn't you say so in the first place? Okay, I'll just wave my
magic wand and say the magic words and he'll go away...

Hmmm, it doesn't seem to be working. Perhaps you can suggest another way?

We've tried ignoring him and it doesn't work, we've tried shouting abuse
and not only doesn't it make him go away it just makes him shout abuse
back, and it frightens off newcomers to the group. I've tried wishing
really hard, rearranging the socks in my sock drawer, and kicking the dog
across the room, so if you've got any suggestions that don't involve a
pointless flamewar I'll be really, really grateful to hear them.

> And we are sick
> to death of seeing him here, don't you have the guts to say it like it
> is?

I prefer brains to guts. Guts is just an excuse for not thinking. What
good does it do to "say it like it is"? You don't discourage him, you
just send a message that flaming is acceptable, make this a more hostile
environment, AND rather than discourage him, your flames just encourage
him to counter-attack with abuse. Flaming as a way to remove annoying
posters (be they help-vampires or trolls) doesn't work.

Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
Nikos is helping to wreck this community.


--
Steven

[Ferrous Cranus]

i will but i must tell you that i had

'yum groupinstall "development tools"'

i did this before even installing Python 3.4a

[Nick the Gr33k]

Will someone please tell me how to install 'pip'

My website is not working because modules are missing and the only way i
can install them is by installing python's module manager 'pip'

but 'yum install python-pip' fails.

How would i install the damn thing?

These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able
to install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when
the easy thing to do was "yum install python3"

what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

[Chris Angelico]

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Nick the Gr33k <ni...@superhost.gr> wrote:
> These action should be done via package managers but i wasn't ven able to
> install python 3.4a like that, i had to compile it form source when the easy
> thing to do was "yum install python3"
>
> what wrong with this 'yum' manager?

With yum you get whatever yum is carrying. If you build from source,
you're on your own. You chose to build from source. Now you're on your
own. Have fun. Get to know what it takes to run your own system,
without the package manager's help (or rather, without as much of the
package manager's help). These are Linux system administration
questions, NOT Python questions.

ChrisA

[Mark Lawrence]

On 14/11/2013 02:55, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
> take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
> when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
> Nikos is helping to wreck this community.
>

No need for the bended knee old chap, although if you want some kind of
part I'm fairly sure that Chris Angelico could find you something in one
of his Gilbert and Sullivan productions.

Talking of Chris, I see that he, Robert Kern and alister (possibly
others?) have all pointed out to our illustrious Greek colleague that
his latest question, which has been repeated three times to my
knowledge, isn't Python related and would he please ask it elsewhere.
Hopefully this pattern will continue, meaning the end of hostilities.

I'll give up mentioning the spoon feeders part in this rather unpleasant
interlude. Doh!!!

[Benjamin Kaplan]

> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

package managers assume that they are the only thing installing software on your system. Any python related package you install through yum will only be compiled for and installed to the versions of python that you can get through yum. If you want to compile python outside they package manager, you'll also have to install all the libraries outside of the package manager.

[Chris Angelico]

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 6:12 AM, Mark Lawrence <bream...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/11/2013 02:55, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>

>> Please Mark, and anyone else reading, I'm begging you on bended knee,
>> take your flaming off list. You can be a valued member of this community
>> when you put your mind to it, but your prideful refusal to stop attacking
>> Nikos is helping to wreck this community.
>>
>

> No need for the bended knee old chap, although if you want some kind of part
> I'm fairly sure that Chris Angelico could find you something in one of his
> Gilbert and Sullivan productions.

Oh, absolutely! Quite a few! Also, there are references in "The Grand
Duke" to, and I quote, "histrionic art". I think that adequately
describes some of what we've seen here :)

ChrisA