Your advise on databases wanted
Arjan D.W. de Haan
We're starting a rewrite of an old application for use in Windows. The
rewrite is to be done in Delphi. However, we are having trouble deciding
which database to use.
These are the criteria for the required database:
* relational database model support
* preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
* Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
* royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
* support for both single- and multi-user
Next to that, if possible we need encryption to ensure database security.
Some of these criteria may look strange, but they are there for historic
reasons. For example, the royalty-free distribution is 'required' because it
has been so in the past. It is hard pushing a new version of an application
and requiring people to fork over some more money just to keep working with
the app.
Also, the OS-specific stuff means we're hoping to find a solution where the
access mechanism for the database is not tied to a specific OS. MS Access
requires Windows to run and no other platform (maybe the Mac?) can access
it. But old dBase files are accessable from a wide range of solutions.
However, we are seeking a database where all tables live inside a single
database file (like Access does). I hope this makes some sense to you all.
If you have any questions, please ask. Any advise will be greatly
appreciated.
-
--
Arjan D.W. de Haan
Quality SDC
email : adw...@netlane.com.nospam
(remove .nospam when replying)
Opinions expressed are mine alone and need not reflect those of my employer
--
-
Martijn Tonies
> These are the criteria for the required database:
> * relational database model support
> * preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
> * Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
> * royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
> * support for both single- and multi-user
I would say: InterBase and Local InterBase... It's a fully SQL-92 compliant
RDBMS, not OS specific (Novell/Windows/Unix variants available), Delphi
supported (BDE, IBExpress or IBObjects (the best)) and very multi user...
However, it's not royalty-free! But I wonder if you can find a real, full
grown rdbms that's royalty free. (it's not 2 expensive though)
Martijn Tonies
Upscene Productions
For Delphi Components and InterBase tools:
http://www.upscene.com
Sundial Services
really want their royalty fees.
There are various SQL-compliant more-or-less databases out there, such
as MySQL, but I'll be frank and say to you that the best way to go is to
simply decide what database is *best* for your purposes, then calculate
any royalty-fees into the price of the product. The customer wants to
know the total cost of ownership. It's a given that you might be
purchasing something from someone to sell it to your customer --
retailers do that all the time.
Interbase IS a very nice database, in fact it is my preferred system,
and the reason why I like it is that it -is- very scalable, from
single-user right on up to very large systems indeed. It's simple to
install, and "it just sits there and does its job, for months on end
without a peep."
So it costs money. So there's a royalty involved. "Cost of goods
sold," period.
Martijn Tonies wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> > These are the criteria for the required database:
> > * relational database model support
> > * preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
> > * Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
> > * royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
> > * support for both single- and multi-user
>
> I would say: InterBase and Local InterBase... It's a fully SQL-92 compliant
> RDBMS, not OS specific (Novell/Windows/Unix variants available), Delphi
> supported (BDE, IBExpress or IBObjects (the best)) and very multi user...
> However, it's not royalty-free! But I wonder if you can find a real, full
> grown rdbms that's royalty free. (it's not 2 expensive though)
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sundial Services :: Scottsdale, AZ (USA) :: (480) 946-8259
mailto:in...@sundialservices.com (PGP public key available.)
> Why =shouldn't= it be quick and easy to keep your database online?
> ChimneySweep(R): "Click click, it's fixed!" {tm}
> http://www.sundialservices.com/cs3web.htm
Markku Nevalainen
>
> I would say: InterBase and Local InterBase... It's a fully SQL-92 compliant
> RDBMS, not OS specific (Novell/Windows/Unix variants available), Delphi
> supported (BDE, IBExpress or IBObjects (the best)) and very multi user...
> However, it's not royalty-free! But I wonder if you can find a real, full
> grown rdbms that's royalty free. (it's not 2 expensive though)
>
Interbase would be great alternative to many Delphi apps, to replace
BDE/Paradox. But despite of several suggestions that have made to Borland,
they have not been able to write a good price list in the low end, in
1..2 user category. MS instead did this for their SQL Server, with their
MSDE launch http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/msde/default.asp
But now, there is something happening at Borland/Interbase. About one
week ago maybe 3..5 persons from Interbase's top management marched
out, and have not come back. Borland has said, that within 1 week, they
will announce what will happen with Interbase.
Some have even quessed IB could become some kind of freeware database
or something. Now we are waiting with interest, what will the news be
on the first week of 2000.
Markku Nevalainen
Dr John Stockton
Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:09:21 in news:comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc, Arjan
D.W. de Haan <adw...@netlane.com> wrote:
>Path: news.demon.co.uk!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.ne
>t!demon!news.demon.nl!demon!qsdc.demon.nl!not-for-mail
>Newsgroups: borland.public.delphi.database.multi-tier,comp.lang.pascal.delphi.da
>tabases,comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc
>NNTP-Posting-Host: qsdc.demon.nl
>We're starting a rewrite of an old application for use in Windows. The
>rewrite is to be done in Delphi. However, we are having trouble deciding
>which database to use.
> ...
Be aware that the TeamB news:borland.* newsgroup experts do not like
cross-posting to their groups; it is against the Borland Guidelines.
Be also aware that, as you have injected your post via news.demon.nl, it
will not appear on the Borland server at forums.borland.com, and,
therefore, the experts will not see your post - and will repose in
contented silence.
I have chosen to use f.b.c for all borland.* groups, and Demon for the
rest; Turnpike makes this easy.
I have maintained the cross-post, in order to reach you.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. j...@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME ©
Web <URL:ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/link/tsfaqn.zip> - Timo Salmi's Usenet Q&A.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
Michael D. Long
The only way that you are going to meet all of your feature
requirements including royalty-free distribution is to write
the database engine yourself. You aren't seriously looking
for advice, are you?
Mike
Arjan D.W. de Haan wrote in message
<946499953.28250....@news.demon.nl>...
>Hi.
>
>We're starting a rewrite of an old application for use in Windows. The
>rewrite is to be done in Delphi. However, we are having trouble deciding
>which database to use.
>
>These are the criteria for the required database:
>* relational database model support
>* preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
>* Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
>* royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
>* support for both single- and multi-user
>
Arjan D.W. de Haan
Michael D. Long wrote in message ...
>
>The only way that you are going to meet all of your feature
>requirements including royalty-free distribution is to write
>the database engine yourself. You aren't seriously looking
>for advice, are you?
>
>Mike
Actually we are. The royalty-free distribution is 'nice to have' but we'll
try to manage without it if needed. And we wrote a database engine ourselves
a couple of projects ago, but that one isn't suitable for the rewrite we are
about to do...
Bjørge Sæther
SQL-servers, like Interbase or Oracle. This cost somewhat minimum $200
per user, more if few clients on one server. It would not be a good idea
to write it yourselves, unless you have special needs, because this
would easily be much more expensive than even Oracle.
But - I don't get it either, how you're thinking when asking for a
royalty-free one ? Then you'd have to tell us which one of the other
requirements that are not absolute...
--
Bjoerge Saether
Consultant / Developer
Asker, Norway
bsaether....@online.no (remove the obvious)
Arjan D.W. de Haan skrev i meldingen
<946840771.10948....@news.demon.nl>...
Arjan D.W. de Haan
"Bjørge Sæther" <REMOVE_...@online.no> wrote:
>
> But - I don't get it either, how you're thinking when asking for a
> royalty-free one ? Then you'd have to tell us which one of the other
> requirements that are not absolute...
>
maybe our interpretation of the term 'royalty-free deployment' should
clarify things. The old DOS app is written in Clipper and this allowed
for distributing the database engine with the application.
What we are looking for is a database engine to buy which would allow
us to deploy it with the application we ship to our clients. We don't
mind buying a database engine but were hoping to find an engine which
does not require end-users to buy licenses just to run our app. It has
been so in the past and we would like to keep it that way if possible.
If not, well, we need to find a close match to the other requirements
and live with it.
As far as the other requirements is concerned: they are hard in the
sense that those are required for the application to be sold. We don't
want to tie into only Windows because the majority of our current
clients are not using a Windows NT server but Novell to run their
networks. The relational model is required because of the effort in the
past just for maintaining referential integrity in Clipper. We're done
with that and would rather the database engine takes that role.
I hope this makes some (if not all) of the requirements of the original
posting clearer. I'm sorry if the original posting was not clear enough.
Thank you all for your time. I appreciate your responses.
-
--
Arjan D.W. de Haan
Quality SDC
email : adw...@netlane.com.nospam
(remove .nospam when replying)
Opinions expressed are mine alone and need not reflect those of my
employer
--
-
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Markku Nevalainen
>
I understand this was one of your requirements for the database:
>* preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
I quess there are maybe couple of hundred different operationg systems,
when you start your counter from the days of IBM 360 or so. Even if you
forget all those that are older than 1980, there still remains quite
an interesting bunch.
I would not want to support even them, but if it is your decision to
do do, then why not.
---
Well, you must have heard about the Java language. The hype says that it
is a true portable development environment. And the apps will run almost
anywhere, from microwave owens to radiotelescopes.
Currently, Delphi is tied to Windows API. The Java hype says, that you
can run Java apps even in the coming EPOC Cellular Phone models etc.
Even if Borland will get their Linux Delphi out, they will still be out
of that hardware for some years.
If you want to mix Delphi to your project, you'll lose much of the portability.
If you want to get a portable system, with a quite portable database,
then better go along with Java hype, and also choose some Java written
database engine. And this means also, dump Delphi.
Of course, you can't write even nearly as fast and efficient apps with Java
as you can do with Delphi. But that's the price of interpreted, portable
Java.
And again, that's just one more new compromise to make, and choose. Most
of the developers are familiar with compromises anyway. One has to make
decisions and compromise, to be able to get through some of the daily
jams.
Markku Nevalainen
Bjørge Sæther
When you clearly express that multi-platform is essential - well, that
leaves you with the more "grown-up" db's to choose from. What you get
from all those, which you also asked for, is Multiuser capabilities, SQL
and Referential Integrity. When you have been able to work with Clipper,
it tells me you don't need a large-scale server, so you don't need
anything like Oracle & Sybase. Interbase is an alternative, representing
a medium scale server. In this class we had Btrieve, but I wasn't able
to find it the last time I searched the web.
Cheaper alternatives like MySQL works on virtually any blatform *but*
Netware, I believe.
Well - I searched again today, and it seems like it's been swallowed by
Pervasive SQL server or something
(http://www.pervasive.com/products/psql/psql_servengine/).
I do only have experience with other than interbase and Oracle of the
mentioned servers, and I may recommend Interbase for one reason: It's
tremendously easy to install and maintain. To install a server and have
the first DB up and running, you'll use less then 5 minutes. But - it's
not exactly for free...
Well, I nearly forgot that it seemed like you also want it to run on a
standalone PC - that leaves out Oracle. Again, IB is very flexible, as
the very same engine runs as a local db and a workgroup server. As a
Local server you may run it on all Win Platforms.
Michael D. Long
After reading your latest post, it becomes clear that you aren't
up to speed on database technology.
Clipper is not an engine, per se, but rather a compiler for dBase
code (with extensions). Applications that were written in it perform
all processing at the client (just like Access); the data files could
be stored either locally or on a remote file system (running NT or
Netware - the server OS is irrelevant). The manner in which a
database-oriented program of this type manipulates files is
application-centric, rather than server-centric (processing is
performed on the server, and results returned to the client).
>* relational database model support
>* preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
>* Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
>* royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
>* support for both single- and multi-user
Since you have clarified things, it becomes more obvious that
you could utilize Access mdb files (whether or not you want to
is another matter). Other options would included Paradox, or the
MSDE (the latter of which is limited to 5 users).
Because you have cross-posted to multi-tier, and have specified
that the solution not be OS-specific and be written in Delphi leads
most respondents to believe that you are targeting clients for both
Windows and Linux platforms. This is the reason for recommendations
for server-based DBMS engines, even though this is probably not
what you require.
I suggest that you read the documentation that comes with Delphi,
along with articles published in the MSDN and educate yourself
about databases. There are also some good beginners books
available in the typical bookstore.
Good luck,
Mike
Arjan D.W. de Haan wrote in message <84q8d9$621$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Jon Shemitz
> We're starting a rewrite of an old application for use in Windows. The
> rewrite is to be done in Delphi. However, we are having trouble deciding
> which database to use.
>
> These are the criteria for the required database:
> * relational database model support
> * preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
> * Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
> * royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
> * support for both single- and multi-user
As per http://www.borland.com/about/press/2000/ib.html, Borland is going
to release Interbase as Open Source. This should suit your needs - and
it might help make Kylix a hit when it comes out.
--
http://www.midnightbeach.com - Me, my work, my writing, and
http://www.midnightbeach.com/hs - my homeschool resource pages
Dragon City Systems
database product,
VERY well supported and VERY efficient, check out the liciencing
arrangements for distrubution as this may not fit your needs, its
available on a wide range of O/S's : Linux, Unix, Windows, etc
On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:09:21 +0100, "Arjan D.W. de Haan"
<adw...@netlane.com> wrote:
>Hi.
>
>We're starting a rewrite of an old application for use in Windows. The
>rewrite is to be done in Delphi. However, we are having trouble deciding
>which database to use.
>
>These are the criteria for the required database:
>* relational database model support
>* preferably not OS-specific (eg. Access only runs on Windows, so no go)
>* Delphi support required (either VCL or ADO/ODBC)
>* royalty-free distribution (no licensing fees)
>* support for both single- and multi-user
>
>Next to that, if possible we need encryption to ensure database security.
>
>Some of these criteria may look strange, but they are there for historic
>reasons. For example, the royalty-free distribution is 'required' because it
>has been so in the past. It is hard pushing a new version of an application
>and requiring people to fork over some more money just to keep working with
>the app.
>Also, the OS-specific stuff means we're hoping to find a solution where the
>access mechanism for the database is not tied to a specific OS. MS Access
>requires Windows to run and no other platform (maybe the Mac?) can access
>it. But old dBase files are accessable from a wide range of solutions.
>However, we are seeking a database where all tables live inside a single
>database file (like Access does). I hope this makes some sense to you all.
>
>If you have any questions, please ask. Any advise will be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>
Markku Nevalainen
>
> As per http://www.borland.com/about/press/2000/ib.html, Borland is going
> to release Interbase as Open Source. This should suit your needs - and
> it might help make Kylix a hit when it comes out.
>
Yes, this is interesting news. Borland makes the _coming_ Interbase 6.0
release an Open Source product. Yet the current Interbase release 5.6,
and also the earlier versions still remain proprietary products.
I'm not sure what Borland means with their press release, when they say
that 6.0 version will be free for NT and Linux platforms. How about the
W95/98 installations, will the 6.0 run there at all?
Markku Nevalainen
Jon Shemitz
> I'm not sure what Borland means with their press release, when they say
> that 6.0 version will be free for NT and Linux platforms. How about the
> W95/98 installations, will the 6.0 run there at all?
I'm not sure, either. My guess is that in this context NT means Win2K.
Of course, if the Open Sourced version won't run on legacy systems,
you'll always have the option of hacking on the source until it does.
Nick Gabb
Choose a fixed database and database platform and access it across the
network from any platform with TCP/IP & SQL
I'm currently looking at Interbase on Linux for the database but with
all workstations under some version of windows (A stable one!!) with
the rest of the network garbage handled by either nt server, nt
workstation or novell dependant on the customers other requirements. NT
workstation makes an excellent CHEAP server for smaller networks.
Nick
Arjan D.W. de Haan wrote:
>
> Michael D. Long wrote in message ...
> >
> >The only way that you are going to meet all of your feature
> >requirements including royalty-free distribution is to write
> >the database engine yourself. You aren't seriously looking
> >for advice, are you?
> >
> >Mike
>
> Actually we are. The royalty-free distribution is 'nice to have' but we'll
> try to manage without it if needed. And we wrote a database engine ourselves
> a couple of projects ago, but that one isn't suitable for the rewrite we are
> about to do...
>
Brendan
attachment (text file) to a particular email address.
Bjørge Sæther
>I'm currently looking at Interbase on Linux for the database but with
>all workstations under some version of windows (A stable one!!) with
Of course one could install a db on a different platform..especially
when talking about Interbase, a dedicated server is a must. It just
occupies about 100% of the CPU when running queries (WinNT), so you
don't use that server for anything else....Running IB and Oracle queries
in parallell with leaves less than 1% CPU time for Oracle...;-)
Markku Nevalainen
>
> Of course, if the Open Sourced version won't run on legacy systems,
> you'll always have the option of hacking on the source until it does.
>
That's a good point. The weak point is, that those IB sources are probably
pure C++.
Or Chinese++, as we Delphi/Pascal folks use to call it. Anyway quite beyond
my current Chinese capabilities. But maybe someone else will do that
hacking, if needed.
Markku Nevalainen
Mike Shkolnik
you can create a message in Outlook using OLE:
const olMailItem = 0;
var Outlook: OLEVariant;
MailItem: Variant;
begin
try
Outlook := GetActiveOleObject('Outlook.Application');
except
Outlook := CreateOleObject('Outlook.Application');
end;
MailItem := Outlook.CreateItem(olMailItem);
MailItem.Recipients.Add('mshk...@rs-ukraine.kiev.ua');
MailItem.Subject := 'your subject';
MailItem.Body := 'Welcome to my homepage:
http://www.geocities.com/mshkolnik';
MailItem.Attachments.Add('C:\Windows\Win.ini');
MailItem.Send;
Outlook := Unassigned;
end;
--
With best regards, Mike Shkolnik.
E-Mail: mshk...@rs-ukraine.kiev.ua
mshk...@yahoo.com
WEB: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Grid/3989
http://www.geocities.com/mshkolnik
Brendan пишет в сообщении ...
Martijn Tonies
You might want to try searching www.delphipages.com and search for POP3
etc...
Martijn Tonies
--
For Delphi Components and InterBase tools:
http://www.upscene.com
Brendan <bri...@pnp.com.au> wrote in message
news:tWwc4.12$0b1...@vic.nntp.telstra.net...
Steven Harris
(Michael D. Long) wrote:
> I suggest that you read the documentation that comes with Delphi,
> along with articles published in the MSDN and educate yourself
> about databases. There are also some good beginners books
> available in the typical bookstore.
Great. Just the kind of advice the poster of the original poster was
looking for....
Alex Wong
www.advantagedatabase.com.
Alex Wong
ADS
Arjan D.W. de Haan <adw...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:84q8d9$621$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <foOb4.7959$sH.4...@news1.online.no>,
> "Bjørge Sæther" <REMOVE_...@online.no> wrote:
> >
> > But - I don't get it either, how you're thinking when asking for a
> > royalty-free one ? Then you'd have to tell us which one of the other
> > requirements that are not absolute...
> >
> Bjørge,
>
> maybe our interpretation of the term 'royalty-free deployment' should
> clarify things. The old DOS app is written in Clipper and this allowed
> for distributing the database engine with the application.
> What we are looking for is a database engine to buy which would allow
> us to deploy it with the application we ship to our clients. We don't
> mind buying a database engine but were hoping to find an engine which
> does not require end-users to buy licenses just to run our app. It has
> been so in the past and we would like to keep it that way if possible.
> If not, well, we need to find a close match to the other requirements
> and live with it.
>
> As far as the other requirements is concerned: they are hard in the
> sense that those are required for the application to be sold. We don't
> want to tie into only Windows because the majority of our current
> clients are not using a Windows NT server but Novell to run their
> networks. The relational model is required because of the effort in the
> past just for maintaining referential integrity in Clipper. We're done
> with that and would rather the database engine takes that role.
>
> I hope this makes some (if not all) of the requirements of the original
> posting clearer. I'm sorry if the original posting was not clear enough.
> Thank you all for your time. I appreciate your responses.
>
> -
> --
> Arjan D.W. de Haan
> Quality SDC
> email : adw...@netlane.com.nospam
> (remove .nospam when replying)
>
> Opinions expressed are mine alone and need not reflect those of my
> employer
> --
> -
>
>
pc
I have tried your code.
no errors and nothing happens
Is something missing?
pc
Mike Shkolnik <mshk...@rs-ukraine.kiev.ua> wrote in message
news:84vb6e$ehe$1...@news.lucky.net...
> Brendan пише??сообщени?...