Confusing language, library and OS

[James Harris]

From another thread:

On 07/12/2021 09:57, David Brown wrote:
DB> On 07/12/2021 10:22, Bart wrote:

B>> That might be the case on Unix where where the OS and C are so
B>> intertwined that that you don't know where one ends and the other
B>> begins.

DB> No, /you/ don't know where one ends and the other begins

I suspect that's true of many of us. It /is/ confusing when:

1. the C standards documents include the standard library, not just C
2. Clib and OS calls are invoked in the same way (flat namespace)
3. compiler and linker are expected to /search/ for referenced files
4. the 'OS calls' aren't really OS calls but wrappers
5. C headers are separate from the modules they describe
6. one C header can bundle declarations for multiple modules and one
module may need the inclusion of multiple headers (AIUI)

IMO that's a bit of a mess. All of those, even if I understand them
correctly (which is far from certain), blur the boundaries between the
language, the language's library/ies, and the operating system.

In a new language all of those six problems can be fixed - and should
be, IMO.


--
James Harris

[David Brown]

I am not sure how much of a "problem" this all is - we've had C for
decades, and it seems unlikely that you, me, or anyone else in this
group is smarter than the last 40-odd years worth of programmers,
language designers and systems architects put together.

Without going into details of your points, since that might just start
another long and unproductive thread, I would certainly agree that the
single flat namespace of C is a limitation of the language. Any new
language that aspires to be used for more than small and simple tasks
needs hierarchical namespace handling of some sort - modules,
namespaces, units, interfaces, whatever you want to call it and however
you want to divide it up. And it is definitely important to think
through the balance between flexibility and structure here - there are
significant pros and cons associated with tying interface files and
implementation files together tightly or loosely.