since msot lisp books suck, how about a wikibook on lisp like php manual?
gavino
I would volunteer as test subject.
jos...@lisp.de
> taking beginner to master in small steps in most modern techniques
>
> I would volunteer as test subject.
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| don't feed the |
| TROLL! |
'~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ooO~~~'
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo
gavino
wrote:
rainer you are a pain. I see you are a troll to my questions. This is
like the best idea ever for common lisp.
A community grown book on leanrning lisp with terms defined and
concets laid out in small pieces.
Then all the people can improev it bit by bit like wikipedia, add
examples etc. and grow it into some thing just awesome.
What do you reccomend to the beginner then rainer?
Larry Coleman
> taking beginner to master in small steps in most modern techniques
>
> I would volunteer as test subject.
Is this what you had in mind?
Lars Rune Nøstdal
Dude, it has already been done. Search the archives here and the logs
on #lisp (freenode). Peter Seibel asked around for feedback and advice
while writing his book and it was a community effort.
Victor
wrote:
Probably that's what he had in mind.
IMHO, this one could be a good read for those who wish
to learn Common Lisp.
Unfortunately, even basic chapters are still far from
being complete.
Hopefully it will attract more attention and will become
a useful beginners manual.
Happy New Year!
Victor
Tamas K Papp
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:30:15 +0200, Larry Coleman
> <larryl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 29, 2:00 am, gavino <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> taking beginner to master in small steps in most modern techniques
>>>
>>> I would volunteer as test subject.
>>
>> Is this what you had in mind?
>>
>> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Common_Lisp
>
> Probably that's what he had in mind.
>
> IMHO, this one could be a good read for those who wish to learn Common
> Lisp.
I disagree. Currently, PCL is a far better option for most people.
Wikibooks is a nice idea, but pretty pointless when there are already
excellent books around, some of which are freely available online.
> Unfortunately, even basic chapters are still far from being complete.
>
> Hopefully it will attract more attention and will become a useful
> beginners manual.
Writing a coherent and useful introductory book on any subject is an
enormous undertaking, and CL is no exception. Unless the authors are
willing to devote a lot of effort (which is unlikely), the best a CL
wikibook can aspire to is distracting newbies from far better
alternatives.
Tamas
gavino
wrote:
Yeah I am not into how he uses proprietary lisp products though. I
also feel that perhapsPaul Grham was more successful so I wish his bok
as less impenetrable to reading [ansi common not on lisp].
I am going to read lamkins and tourestky.
I got to ch3 in siebel didn't like it at all.
gavino
how pessimistic
linux and openbsd are group effort and are nice
Bigos
> taking beginner to master in small steps in most modern techniques
>
> I would volunteer as test subject.
Gavino,
I think Common Lisp books are written the way they are, not to suck,
but to target specific audience who is able to grasp concepts
described in them.
Maybe you should try easier way, and stop trying to learn Common Lisp
but try scheme or Emacs Lisp.
Somebody previously posted links to excellent Scheme tutorials. This
is link to Emacs Lisp.
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/html_node/index.html
try it maybe it will work for you and finally you will be able to
grasp Common Lisp.
Good Luck
Jacek
Tamas K Papp
> On Dec 29 2009, 7:00 am, gavino <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> taking beginner to master in small steps in most modern techniques
>>
>> I would volunteer as test subject.
>
> Gavino,
>
> I think Common Lisp books are written the way they are, not to suck, but
> to target specific audience who is able to grasp concepts described in
> them.
>
> Maybe you should try easier way, and stop trying to learn Common Lisp
> but try scheme or Emacs Lisp.
Scheme and Emacs Lisp are _different_, but I don't see how they would
be any easier. Eg Scheme has continuations which are pretty difficult
to grasp. And Emacs Lisp is a DSL for programming the Emacs editor, it
is not really worthwhile to learn it unless you want to do precisely
this. Otherwise, it is not a nice dialect, it has dynamic scope by
default, etc.
> try it maybe it will work for you and finally you will be able to grasp
> Common Lisp.
Gavino is not trying to learn CL, he is just asking random questions
once in a while. There is not indication whatsoever that he even
reads the replies.
Tamas
Tamas K Papp
> * Tamas K Papp <7q6u1i...@mid.individual.net> : Wrote on 1 Jan 2010
> 18:43:00 GMT:
>
> | Wikibooks is a nice idea, but pretty pointless when there are already
> | excellent books around, some of which are freely available online.
>
> And by that same token: Wikipedia is a nice idea but pretty pointless,
> when there is already excellent material around, all of which is freely
> available online
I disagree. Wikipedia has good articles on some topics, but most of
them are much shorter than even a short book. Writing books and short
articles requires very different approaches, they are not really
comparable.
Tamas
Madhu
* Tamas K Papp <7q9a6o...@mid.individual.net> :
Wrote on 2 Jan 2010 16:22:50 GMT:
The first is just Your Opinion. The second is a generality which you
are overstating. (many research/technical books are indeed collections
of articles). And neither has to do with the argument that the content
is already available and packaged up for consumption without Yet Another
Middleman getting between you and your content.
--
Madhu
Bigos
> Gavino is not trying to learn CL, he is just asking random questions
> once in a while.
It's hard to tell, maybe he just doesn't want to put an effort into
learning Lisp.
> There is not indication whatsoever that he even
> reads the replies.
I have seen his replies to political remarks, which might indicate
where his main interests are. If he put so much effort into Lisp as he
did put in politics, he might learn something and start asking more
sensible questions.
Pascal J. Bourguignon
Oh! Then it's even worse than we thought. He's not idiot or lazy,
he's a politician!
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/