open source e-commerce

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Brandon J. Van Every

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May 30, 2005, 2:06:15 PM5/30/05
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Does the Lisp universe have any open source projects that are greatly
suitable to e-commerce? Like, possibly, Lisp's answer to Python's Zope
or Plone. This would be for a subscription based web service, i.e.
people would sign up and pay by the month. I don't want to talk in any
greater detail about the project than that.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

Taking risk where others will not.

Pascal Bourguignon

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May 30, 2005, 9:29:37 PM5/30/05
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"Brandon J. Van Every" <mylastname...@mycompanyname.com> writes:

> Does the Lisp universe have any open source projects that are greatly
> suitable to e-commerce? Like, possibly, Lisp's answer to Python's
> Zope or Plone. This would be for a subscription based web service,
> i.e. people would sign up and pay by the month. I don't want to talk
> in any greater detail about the project than that.

Have a look at Uncommon Web http://www.cliki.net/ucw

--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

The world will now reboot. don't bother saving your artefacts.

Brandon J. Van Every

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May 31, 2005, 1:19:29 AM5/31/05
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Pascal Bourguignon wrote:

>"Brandon J. Van Every" <mylastname...@mycompanyname.com> writes:
>
>
>
>>Does the Lisp universe have any open source projects that are greatly
>>suitable to e-commerce? Like, possibly, Lisp's answer to Python's
>>Zope or Plone. This would be for a subscription based web service,
>>i.e. people would sign up and pay by the month. I don't want to talk
>>in any greater detail about the project than that.
>>
>>
>
>Have a look at Uncommon Web http://www.cliki.net/ucw
>
>
>

They had a nicely laid out document with some FAQ questions. Among them:


1.2 What is UCW not?

UCW deals with managing user interaction via HTTP and nothing more, no
database layer, no user authentication or security nor any content
management systems. This is an intentional design choice: there is no
way UCW could provide a single implementation of these features which
would well in every setup, so instead of trying to be everything for
everyone UCW will limit itself to help developers deal with interacting
via HTTP.


I think this pretty much means it's not taking e-commerce into
consideration. Rather, it could be 1 piece of a larger puzzle. Looking
around at the other language newsgroups about this subject, the puzzle
does indeed have several parts.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

"The pioneer is the one with the arrows in his back."
- anonymous entrepreneur

Pascal Bourguignon

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May 31, 2005, 1:43:37 AM5/31/05
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"Brandon J. Van Every" <mylastname...@mycompanyname.com> writes:

> Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
>
>>"Brandon J. Van Every" <mylastname...@mycompanyname.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Does the Lisp universe have any open source projects that are greatly
>>>suitable to e-commerce? Like, possibly, Lisp's answer to Python's
>>>Zope or Plone. This would be for a subscription based web service,
>>>i.e. people would sign up and pay by the month. I don't want to talk
>>>in any greater detail about the project than that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Have a look at Uncommon Web http://www.cliki.net/ucw
>>
>>
>>
> They had a nicely laid out document with some FAQ questions. Among them:
>
>
> 1.2 What is UCW not?
>
> UCW deals with managing user interaction via HTTP and nothing more, no
> database layer, no user authentication or security nor any content
> management systems. This is an intentional design choice: there is no
> way UCW could provide a single implementation of these features which
> would well in every setup, so instead of trying to be everything for
> everyone UCW will limit itself to help developers deal with
> interacting via HTTP.
>
>
> I think this pretty much means it's not taking e-commerce into
> consideration. Rather, it could be 1 piece of a larger puzzle.
> Looking around at the other language newsgroups about this subject,
> the puzzle does indeed have several parts.

http://www.zope.org/WhatIsZope

What is Zope?

Zope is an open source web application server primarily written in
the Python programming language. It features a transactional
object database which can store not only content and custom data,
but also dynamic HTML templates, scripts, a search engine, and
relational database (RDBMS) connections and code. It features a
strong through-the-web development model, allowing you to update
your web site from anywhere in the world. To allow for this, Zope
also features a tightly integrated security model. Built around
the concept of "safe delegation of control", Zope's security
architecture also allows you to turn control over parts of a web
site to other organizations or individuals. The transactional
model applies not only to Zope's object database, but to many
relational database connectors as well, allowing for strong data
integrity. This transaction model happens automatically, ensuring
that all data is successfully stored in connected data sources by
the time a response is returned to a web browser or other client.


So clearly, Zope is nothing more than UCW. If you want something like
Zope in Common-Lisp, once again have a strong look at UCW.

Next paragraph about Zope is not about Zope, but about third-party modules:

There are numerous products (plug-in Zope components) available
for download to extend the basic set of site building tools. These
products include new content objects; relational database and
other external data source connectors; advanced content management
tools; and full applications for e-commerce, content and document
management, or bug and issue tracking. Zope includes its own HTTP,
FTP, WebDAV, and XML-RPC serving capabilities, but can also be
used with the Apache or other web servers.

Please, write a full e-commerce application for UCW and make it
available for download too!


--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we. -- Georges W. Bush

Brandon J. Van Every

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May 31, 2005, 3:19:25 AM5/31/05
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Pascal Bourguignon wrote:

>Next paragraph about Zope is not about Zope, but about third-party modules:
>
> There are numerous products (plug-in Zope components) available
> for download to extend the basic set of site building tools. These
> products include new content objects; relational database and
> other external data source connectors; advanced content management
> tools; and full applications for e-commerce, content and document
> management, or bug and issue tracking. Zope includes its own HTTP,
> FTP, WebDAV, and XML-RPC serving capabilities, but can also be
> used with the Apache or other web servers.
>
>Please, write a full e-commerce application for UCW and make it
>available for download too!
>
>
>
>

Well, this particular project is about money and getting it done now,
not gratuitous R&D (like my game stuff). I'm just trying to figure out
the merits of Lisp-as-language, vs. demerits of
Lisp-as-libraries-and-tools-platform. I'm leaning very strongly towards
Eclipse-centric development, as this is the best open source project
I've seen. That would mean most stuff done in Java. There are big
stacks of open source stuff for Java, many related to e-commerce if not
exactly so. Things that integrate straight into the Eclipse IDE. For
instance see www.jboss.org Anyways, I'm wondering if there are Lisp -->
JVM things that would be helpful for certain parts of the puzzle. I'm
familiar with Scheme --> JVM things, for instance Bigloo Scheme and Kawa
Scheme, but I don't know that I trust the former for prime time, and I'm
not experienced in the latter. The Schemeway Eclipse plugin author is
deeply into Kawa Scheme, however.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

When no one else sells courage, supply and demand take hold.

Pascal Bourguignon

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May 31, 2005, 3:42:21 AM5/31/05
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"Brandon J. Van Every" <mylastname...@mycompanyname.com> writes:
> Anyways, I'm wondering
> if there are Lisp -->
> JVM things that would be helpful for certain parts of the puzzle.

And now for something completely different, there are several
lisp->java thingies. ABCL (Armed Bear CL) is an implementation of CL
written in Java.

Sava is a package to write java as sexps (so you can use the macro
machinery of CL to help you generate java). Contact Tomek Lipski for
more information:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/messages/b8c4137c55d4b9a4,95ca5289be280455,62155342a529e9ac,83be4eea610dc5dd,103d5484956ab3e2,f2a59bd391491854,9c8927d7bd909ce2,df463b8abafdcda9,976e1bcfdada3cb8,158705c003ccf037?hl=en&thread_id=7c435cb7f0943474&mode=thread&noheader=1&q=sava+java&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.lang.lisp%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F7c435cb7f0943474%2Fdf463b8abafdcda9%3Fq%3Dsava+java%26rnum%3D3%26hl%3Den%26#doc_95ca5289be280455

See also Stella: http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/Stella/index.html


--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

Kitty like plastic.
Confuses for litter box.
Don't leave tarp around.

Frank Buss

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May 31, 2005, 4:01:54 AM5/31/05
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Pascal Bourguignon wrote:

>> UCW deals with managing user interaction via HTTP and nothing more, no
>> database layer, no user authentication or security nor any content
>> management systems.

> What is Zope?


>
> Zope is an open source web application server primarily written in
> the Python programming language. It features a transactional
> object database which can store not only content and custom data,
> but also dynamic HTML templates, scripts, a search engine, and
> relational database (RDBMS) connections and code. It features a
> strong through-the-web development model, allowing you to update
> your web site from anywhere in the world. To allow for this, Zope
> also features a tightly integrated security model.

> So clearly, Zope is nothing more than UCW. If you want something like


> Zope in Common-Lisp, once again have a strong look at UCW.

Zope is much more than UCW. UCW has no database, Zope has an object
oriented database integrated. UCW provides no security, user managment and
content managment system, Zope does. I've used Zope some time ago: You can
add Python scripts at runtime, which are stored in the integrated database
and executed by URL path or it can be instatiated as a "product" for other
objects and it provides a nice management interface for changing the
content in the database (everything is stored as an object, accessed by an
URL), version management (every change to an object creates a new version
for this object, but you can restore old versions), managing users and user
roles etc.

Would be nice to rewrite Zope in Lisp, because the Python code of Zope is
sometimes chaotic, but writing an e-commerce application with UCW would be
much more work than writing it with Zope.

--
Frank Buß, f...@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

Paul F. Dietz

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May 31, 2005, 7:24:05 AM5/31/05
to
Frank Buss wrote:

> Zope is much more than UCW. UCW has no database, Zope has an object
> oriented database integrated.

How about BKNR?

http://www.cliki.net/bknr

Paul

Marco Baringer

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May 31, 2005, 12:53:23 PM5/31/05
to

or even better: use ucw along with bnkr's datastore (UnCommon
Baikonour :))

--
-Marco
Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget the perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.
-Leonard Cohen

Adrian Kubala

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May 31, 2005, 6:38:48 PM5/31/05
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Pascal Bourguignon <p...@informatimago.com> schrieb:

> So clearly, Zope is nothing more than UCW.

Is that sarcasm? Let me highlight a few phrases from the paragraphs you
quoted:

UCW: no database layer
Zope: a transactional object database ... many relational database
connectors

UCW: no user authentication or security
Zope: a tightly integrated security model

UCW: nor any content management systems
Zope: database which can store content ... a strong through-the-web
development model

Indeed, the entire Zope description you quoted may as well have been
dedicated to listing the ways that Zope is *much more* than UCW.

rsher...@gmail.com

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May 31, 2005, 10:30:26 PM5/31/05
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<blasphemy>
Read this
http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000tjp
and step two on this page:
http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/server-programming
(actually the reading the whole book isn't a bad idea).
</blasphemy>

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