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Feb 25, 2004, 8:34:23 AM2/25/04

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Does anyone have the proceedings of the 1989 Glasgow Workshop on

Functionl Programming? In particular, I'm interested in "Expressing

and Reasoning about Non-deterministc Functional Programs", by John

Hughes and John O'Donnell (pp. 308 through 328).

Functionl Programming? In particular, I'm interested in "Expressing

and Reasoning about Non-deterministc Functional Programs", by John

Hughes and John O'Donnell (pp. 308 through 328).

Apparently in that paper, Hughes and O'Donnell describe a means of

introducing nondeterminism in a pure, referentially transparent,

functional notation, through the use of some type of sets where in

some sense each set is represented by a single element chosen from the

set. Can someone outline how that works, or point to (or publish) a

copy of the paper online?

Feb 27, 2004, 6:49:34 AM2/27/04

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Jack Waugh wrote:

> Apparently in that paper, Hughes and O'Donnell describe a means of

> introducing nondeterminism in a pure, referentially transparent,

> functional notation, through the use of some type of sets where in

> some sense each set is represented by a single element chosen from the

> set. Can someone outline how that works, or point to (or publish) a

> copy of the paper online?

This may be the "stupid answer" but maybe it was elaborating on what is now

the "list monad", i.e. the type list when inserted in the typeclass "monad"

in haskell?

V.

Feb 27, 2004, 8:28:07 AM2/27/04

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Vincenzo aka Nick Name wrote:

> This may be the "stupid answer" but maybe it was elaborating on what

> is now the "list monad", i.e. the type list when inserted in the

> typeclass "monad" in haskell?

Disclaimer: the following reflects my current understanding of monads in

general and the List monad in particular. Any corrections,

clarifications and rectifications appreciated.

Which, essentially, means that you simulate nondeterminism by evaluating

all possible results and storing them in a list (the "monad" bit just

refers to a specific way of implementing this - an elegant way, but it's

essentially still "just implementation").

Regards,

Jo

--

Currently looking for a new job.

Feb 27, 2004, 1:18:59 PM2/27/04

to

Joachim Durchholz wrote:

> you simulate nondeterminism by evaluating

> all possible results and storing them in a list

of course you meant "by storing all possible results in a list" since you

don't evaluate them, you know but others might misunderstand:

Prelude> [1,2] >>= (\ x -> [x,x])

[1,1,2,2]

Prelude> [undefined] >>= (\ x -> [x]) >> [3]

[3]

Bye

Vincenzo

Feb 29, 2004, 7:13:08 PM2/29/04

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wa...@acm.org (Jack Waugh) writes:

The way it works is pretty straight-forward, really. Each function

is declared to return a set of results. At the very top level, even

the main function is declared to return a set of results. However,

the system won't try to compute every element in the set returned from

the main function; it will just compute a single element of the set.

The set ADT provides operations to convert a value into a singleton set,

to take the union of two sets, and map a function over every element of a

set to give you a new set, but it provides no way to test to see whether a

particular value is in a set. As a result of this, the representation of

these sets doesn't need to hold all the elements, just a single element.

System functions whose behaviour is nondeterministic can be modelled as

returning the set of all possible results that they might return,

and all the usual mathematical principlces of functional programming can

be applied when reasoning about these functions; but the actual

implementation of such functions only needs to compute a single value,

not the set of all possible values.

See also my mail to the Haskell mailing list

<http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/mail-www/haskell/msg00560.html> which

gives some concrete Haskell code for the NDSet ADT, shows how it can

be made an instance of the Monad class, and suggests how it can be used

for modelling the nondeterminism that arises when catching exceptions.

(This nondeterminism arises because the order of execution is unspecified.

That implies that in cases where the code being executed might throw

more than one exception, it is unspecified which of these exceptions

will occur.)

--

Fergus Henderson <f...@cs.mu.oz.au> | "I have always known that the pursuit

The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit"

WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.

Feb 29, 2004, 7:27:41 PM2/29/04

to

Joachim Durchholz <joachim....@web.de> writes:

>Vincenzo aka Nick Name wrote:

>

>> This may be the "stupid answer" but maybe it was elaborating on what

>> is now the "list monad", i.e. the type list when inserted in the

>> typeclass "monad" in haskell?

No, it was not.

There are two common ways of using nondeterminism: committed choice

nondeterminism, where you may have a set of results, but you only want

to find a single member of that set, and all-solutions nondeterminism,

where you may need to find all solutions. The Hughes and O'Donnell

paper is about a way to model committed choice nondeterminism.

Modelling committed choice nondeterminism is important, because some

important operations are inherently nondeterministic unless the system

is overspecified, and yet cannot reasonably be implemented in a way that

returns all possible solutions. For example, merging the outputs of

two concurrently executing threads in the order in which those outputs

are generated is nondeterministic, unless the language specifies in

detail the exact thread scheduling policy and also the relative time

that each language operation takes, which would essentially prevent

any optimization; and we certainly don't want to compute every possible

interleaving -- we just want to compute the particular interleaving

based on the order in which the values happened to be output.

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