problem with Forum display
Terence
display format and larger font and differnt colours, and the other to
what I am accustomed to with this Forum.
Now, I don't mean half and half screen either vertically or
diagonally,
but PARTS which are always rectangles; possibly 10 or so with 5-10
lines height and mainly on the right side..This is only the last two
days.
Anybody else sees this?
After about 1 second it all goes normal and stays so.
Another point.
I posted a reply yesterday; it doesn't show up where it shoul, but the
NEXT posting has somebody else who saw it, use it to copy and post a
further reply. So at least PART of this is Google and not just my
computer.
Reagan Revision
Google will occasionally revamp its view. I've never been able to use
google reliably to differentiate between the content of subthreads.
When I get a new look from google, I have to play hide, seek, hunt and peck
with which buttons or text operate. As the antecedent circumstance for
using google is that I'm likely traveling or using someone else's machine, I
rarely have high expectations. Lurking is usually the best option.
The immediate strength of google is that you see quite easily what all a
person posts on usenet, and, precisely, where and when. These 3 screen
captures show how to do this:
http://zaxfuuq.net/fortran8_2.htm
Can you give me a better reference for the first image?
--
Reagan Revision
"We are being told that a competent, trustworthy president is someone
who brandishes his religion like a neon sign, loads a gun and goes out
hunting for beautiful winged creatures, and tries to imitate a past
president who, by the way, never shot a bird or felt the need to imitate
anybody."
~~ Patti Davis Is Not Flattered by GOP Candidates' Pale Imitations of
Her Father
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Walter Spector
> When I select this Google group, roughly half my screen goes to one
> display format and larger font and differnt colours, and the other to
This is a *usenet* group - not something specific to google. Most of
us avoid the google interface like the plague. (Though since google
bought dejanews a few years back, they do have archives going back to
the beginning of usenet.)
Does your ISP provide a usenet feed? If so, just point most email
programs (e.g., thunderbird is a good choice) to the feed.
W.
Terence
It says Google groups at the top and has my real e-mail address, which
surprises me.
However, that shows me the change is been done at the Google end.
i.e. it sends me the priveledged screen witj my full details, than the
public screen, with the user protection applied. This is NOT good!.
Looks like a lousy update of the software.
I plead ignorance about "Usernet Groups".
Where are to be found the direct URLs of these Forums?
Michael Metcalf
"Terence" <tbwr...@cantv.net> wrote in message
news:6fc17498-ca1c-4a6b...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I plead ignorance about "Usernet Groups".
> Where are to be found the direct URLs of these Forums?
As already mentioned, your ISP can probably do a better job. I use, for
instance, new.verizon.net directly from Outlook Express (and have done for
years with various ISPs, changing them as I move around).
Regards,
Mike Metcalf
Gary Scott
AT&T will be something like:
I vastly prefer the netscape news group reader. Very easy to sort any
way you want.
> Regards,
>
> Mike Metcalf
>
>
--
Gary Scott
mailto:garylscott@sbcglobal dot net
Fortran Library: http://www.fortranlib.com
Support the Original G95 Project: http://www.g95.org
-OR-
Support the GNU GFortran Project: http://gcc.gnu.org/fortran/index.html
If you want to do the impossible, don't hire an expert because he knows
it can't be done.
-- Henry Ford
Terence
I checked over and over what happens when I select another google
group URL from all the groups i usually consult or post on.
Only this one and alt.lanng.asm have the double-screen initial
display.
After which the screens are stable for that Forum.
I am still trying to understand what the above posters mean about
direct access to User Groups without going through a Google interface.
How?
I use Opera by choice over the MS applications and Netscape, all of
which I have the latest versions. I need to be able to selectively
clear refeence and history out.
dpb
...
> I am still trying to understand what the above posters mean about
> direct access to User Groups without going through a Google interface.
http://www.ibiblio.org/usenet-i/usenet-help.html
--
e p chandler
I don't know about Opera but Internet Explorer and Netscape both have
the ability to launch a separate program which is a news-reader. This
must be configured following the directions from your internet service
provider.
At one time, the main piece of information needed was the name of the
news-server:
Gary Scott cited
but of course AT&T does not own the telcos in Oz, yet! :-).
More recently some news servers require a user name and password plus
some form of authentication.
The main difference between a dedicated newsreader and using the web
interface of Google Groups is that while you do see messages grouped
by thread, you lose the ability to search through an archive of
messages for a specific topic. Instead you see a list of recent topics
with individual messages listed below, usually in a tree like format.
You can mark messages and threads as perviously read, etc.
See your ISP for setup information - if they offer access to
newgroups.
(I still use Google's web interface in preference to that of my ISP
because in the past the coverage has been spotty and more recently
that ISP does not offer access to the full spectrum of usenet
newsgroups.)
-- e
Walter Spector
> I plead ignorance about "Usernet Groups".
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
> Where are to be found the direct URLs of these Forums?
Usenet predates the web by 15+ years. More if you count
uucp. We don't need no stinkin' web browser. :)
Again, ask your ISP if they carry a usenet feed. Then point
your email program (several have been suggested - I use
thunderbird) at it. Or find a dedicated news reader such as
rn, tin, etc.
W.
e p chandler
Excuse addition to this message - I did not make it clear that after
setting up your newsreader you need to either download a list of
newsgroups or perhaps select the name of the newsgroup to read. IIRC
Internet Explorer and Netscape required a download first.
-- e
Gordon Sande
Lets backup a few steps.
Newsgroups use something called NNTP which is Network Newsgroup
Transport Protocol, or something close to that name. There are
specialized programs, that look a lot like email programs to users and
they often are often bundled to add to the confusion, that deal with a
NNTP source. The NNTP source is typically part of the service offered by
an ISP. It used to be mentioned early in their ads but now it is often
hard to find. It will be called news.city.isp.net if you subscribe to
isp.net and they choose to localize traffic in city, or whatever arcane
sequence of symbols the isp guru chose to dream up. The isp will be
running a news server that both receives news postings from other news
operators and sends them posting. The route from you to me is typically
fragmented in the internet style which leads to all the technical
difficulties of dealing with messages that may be duplicated and out of
order etc. That is why the posting can be out of order and can have
"echos" if one of the servers botchs the labelling so duplication is no
longer detected. A side confusion is the NNTP uses different TCP/IP
ports than other services like the web or email. The purpose of all
this is that one copy of the posting arrives at the isp and can be read
by many newsgroup readers. A mailing list would have to send separate
copies to each reader at greater communication cost.
As a service to those who do not bother to get a NNTP reader many isps
offer a web interface to the newsgroups. If they can offer a web
interface to email then it is a small step to do the same for
newsgroups. That used to be the AOL way and was often noted for the many
totally clueless newgroup users who arrived via AOL. Google has its web
interface so you do not even need to use your local isp.
Many sites offer forums for technical support or discussing the state of
the world. They have seaparate users postings but that is about the
limit of the similarity to newsgroups. Forum posting stay there and are
not exchanged. Compare this newsgroup to the Intel support forums as a
concrete example. Web interfaces to newsgroups and forums will have
similar visual appearances so it is easy to be confused.
A news reader can be online in which it requests the content of a
posting as you select it from the titles which have been downloading
when you selected the newsgroup. This can lead to delays when you hit
return for that posting if the server is busy. A news reader can also be
offline in which it will download all the posting for the newsgroups
that you have selected in advance. It will spool the contents to your
local disk with whatever dealys are required. It allows you to read the
postings from your disk with no delays. When 9600 baud was a fast modem
the offline style was common. In the days of 1.5mbs cable feeds the
online style is the most common.
If you read newsgroups regularly it is a very good bet that the use
of a specialized newsreader will make things easier in the long run.
The initial cost of choosing a newsreader, which is as subjective as
choosing an editor, will save itself in the ease of use over a web
interface. When you go an vacation and really need to keep up then
the web interface can be tolerated.
Google will be several layers away from the real NNTP service so all
sorts of funny things can be going on. Get a nice NNTP reader and
use the NNTP service of you local isp and things will look a lot
cleaner. There are several open source newsreaders (ask Google!)
although I use a commercal one on MacOsX. It is an online reader
as I have a cable modem. I still like the offline reader that I had
on MacOs back when the bleeding edge was 38k dialups. I have also
had times when I used PCs and found that I preferred the commercial
newsreaders there. I tend to prefer a well choosen set of useful
features out of the box rather than an uncountablely large collection
of arcane fetures with an awkward set of defaults which is all too
typical of various open software offerings. Some open software follows
the usability style so my tar brush is not universal. Gnome vrs KDE
is a good example of this issue. Or Ubuntu comapred to other Linux
offerings. "It just works" sounds real good to me so I can spend my
time on other persuits.
So much for ramblings on isps and newsgroups.
Sebastian Hanigk
> If you read newsgroups regularly it is a very good bet that the use
> of a specialized newsreader will make things easier in the long run.
> The initial cost of choosing a newsreader, which is as subjective as
> choosing an editor, will save itself in the ease of use over a web
> interface. When you go an vacation and really need to keep up then
> the web interface can be tolerated.
Without intent to start a war: try looking at Emacs if you're not
uncomfortable with it as editor, it has an extremely capable news reader
(Gnus) and is available for a plethora of platforms.
Sebastian
Gordon Sande
I would hazard a guess that folks who are comfortable with Emacs
would already know it capable of being a newsreader and that folks
who are at the level of using the google web interface would not
be comfortable with Emacs.
It is the old story that if you hold the first organizational meeting
of some group on a Tuesday afternoon that all the folks who are there
will not have conflicts with further meetings on Tuesday afternoon.
The technical name for the effect is selection bias.
(I used an Emacs clone for many years but gave it up when I found
that multiple windows was more to my liking than splitting of the
main window. I like many things about Emacs but not enough to stick
with it when I found a preferable alternative for a few very important
features. Clearly a very subjective issue.)
Terence
Actually, this doesn't help.
On using this URL I get a screen of HTML-formatted text about USERNET,
but clicking on anything gets me an error message that the URL is not
valid.
There must be an EARLIER start point which provides the valid pointers
to this HTML construct.
Terence
> See your ISP for setup information - if they offer access to
> newgroups.
>
Yes, but in OZ, there's only one ISP for the continent (pretty much).
Several vendors use the same physical infrastructure.
It's difficult to ask those sort of questions.
Just one person here SPAMS too much and the continent is shut off for
"not controlling the traffic on its server" - a huge number of them.
(Then I have to inform Telstra which nation did it to us, and wait...).
Terence
This was a very informative posting Gordon, but it implies that one
has a constant drip-feed of data through an always-on broadband
connection.
Now, I've just got beyond dial-up, (which has its benefits), but my 1
Mbyte/s broadband (which delivers cable TV too) is only data-active
when I say so. A news feed also implies I must store the data I want,
whereas with Google groups I select and browse THEIR data base.
The point that still escapes me is that I suspected there was ANOTHER
url where I could go to see, with my browser, just "Comp.Lang.Fortran"
for example, without the Google framework and anonimity.
Terence
(google tiny type), for about four seconds I found the same new mixing
of the two different screen formats half-painted. It HAS to be Google,
since some data is in different relative places and part can be seen
in two places for a few seconds. And still only this Forum and one
other among all the ones I view.
dpb
Whatever you posted the last response with which (I didn't look at the
headers to see) seemed to have broken the group return link so I just
pasted a short bit here..
...but clicking on anything gets me an error message that the URL is not
valid.
Hmmm...it was an old bookmark -- at one time it was active. You might
try reading wikipedia entry for usenet at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
then...
--
dpb
You might try news.aioe.org which is the free server I've been using
since the little local ISP here pulled the plug on their news server.
It's not very wide but propagation of clf and most others of similar ilk
aren't too bad...
I've been using Mozilla Thunderbird as the client for a couple years and
it's ok...
--
Gary Scott
I probably missed something but separate news readers work just fine
with dial-up.
> Now, I've just got beyond dial-up, (which has its benefits), but my 1
> Mbyte/s broadband (which delivers cable TV too) is only data-active
> when I say so. A news feed also implies I must store the data I want,
> whereas with Google groups I select and browse THEIR data base.
>
> The point that still escapes me is that I suspected there was ANOTHER
> url where I could go to see, with my browser, just "Comp.Lang.Fortran"
> for example, without the Google framework and anonimity.
Steve Lionel
> And when I re-loaded and check the above for far-too-late typos
> (google tiny type), for about four seconds I found the same new mixing
> of the two different screen formats half-painted. It HAS to be Google,
I use Google Groups mainly because at work we don't have any
newsgroups servers connected to the "outside world". I do not see the
effect you describe.
Google Groups definitely has its drawbacks, but it usually works
well. My main gripe is that once in a while it stops getting new
posts to c.l.f. (That and I can't tweak the headers.)
Steve
e p chandler
At times it appears to lose its pointers to this newgroup entirely,
reporting that there are no messages at all! Also CLF is nested below
itself in the Google hirerarchy, something I have not seen in other
newsgroups.
Now if only we could get some users to do a Google search before
asking a FAQ for the Nth time! :-(.
>
> Steve
I was able to reproduce the effect ONLY with the Opera Browser, not
with Ineternet Explorer. With IE I DO see occasional screen hesitation
while a vertically elongated line of text appears briefly, then
resolves into a normal appearing page.
On my system under Opera the page sometimes corrects itself if I wait
long enough. In addition I see some display glitches where fonts shift
back and forth. It appears that Opera is built on Java which IMO might
well intoduce some sloth into rendering a page.
To the OP, I suggest a different browser.
-- e
Gordon Sande
The constant drip feed is to the isp's news server. You call up its
resevoir of postings when you decide to connect to its NNTP service.
Your description of the constant drip feed would also assume that your
computer would be on which is rarely true for consumers. The isp server
would be a 24/365 operation.
> Now, I've just got beyond dial-up, (which has its benefits), but my 1
> Mbyte/s broadband (which delivers cable TV too) is only data-active
> when I say so. A news feed also implies I must store the data I want,
> whereas with Google groups I select and browse THEIR data base.
See above. You are still confused on where the posting get stored in
bulk. An offline newsreader (rare anymore) will only pull the full
set of your to be read posting so that you are not bothered by the
intermitant delays that were common in the days of dialup. Now when
I read 100 postings (98 get scanned real fast for a few lines only)
I may see the delay icon on one or two. Those are usually on newsgroups
that have a lot of noise as they are too close to being politics
(sci.econ to be specific).
> The point that still escapes me is that I suspected there was ANOTHER
> url where I could go to see, with my browser, just "Comp.Lang.Fortran"
> for example, without the Google framework and anonimity.
The standard Unix based NNTP service only provides c.l.f content after
some amount of interaction. Even the very specialized news servers that
host a single newsgroup will make you jump through the same set of hoops.
Most of the hoop jumping will be automated by your newsreader and may seem
to disappear. There are 60-100 thousand newsgroups with constant creating
and deleting of the alt.whatever zoo so a url for each newsgroup makes
no operational sense for the isp.
If you look at some of the shareware type sites you will find listings
of third party newsservers that will provide full content news for a
monthly fee. I would guess $10 to be in the range of practice. At one
time (back when Archy was the way to go for ftp) I recall seeing that
there were caches of files maintained so that OZ had lower cable traffic.
With the current oversupply of optical cables that may no longer be true.
Steven Correll
> When I select this Google group, roughly half my screen goes to one
> display format and larger font and differnt colours, and the other to
> what I am accustomed to with this Forum.
Have you tried a number of different browsers? HTML, ECMAscript, CSS
and
all the other W3G standards are a moving target, and if Google is
using
some construct that the particular version of your browser doesn't
implement (or doesn't implement correctly) that could cause such a
problem.
So could a "plugin" that has been helpfully added to your browser for
some totally unrelated purpose.
If possible, I recommend installing a browser that hasn't been on your
machine before (Opera, perhaps?) to see whether the problems persist
or
change--at worst that may give some clues about their nature.
John Harper
Gordon Sande <g.s...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>Your description of the constant drip feed would also assume that your
>computer would be on which is rarely true for consumers. The isp server
>would be a 24/365 operation.
24/366 this year I hope :-)
-- John Harper, School of Mathematics, Statistics and Computer Science,
Victoria University, PO Box 600, Wellington 6140, New Zealand
e-mail john....@vuw.ac.nz phone (+64)(4)463 5662 fax (+64)(4)463 5045
Gordon Sande
Sometimes one has to allow for only ~99.75% uptime!
Terence
As a "Scientist" I was trained to note and investigate the unexpected.
(13 years at university, and more later). My best guess is I should re-
install Opera and re-check.
The bug is related to two Forums, definately, and not three others all
of Google, so it has to be a massaging of the data, possibly a failing
in my machine only (although above postings indicate others have seen
this on this site) and so Java-related or similar local mis-match.
Reagan Revision
without the benefit of anything nntp. I still don't understand how the perl
programming language can't catch a post, while OE chokes on some flooder's
tripe.
> Google will be several layers away from the real NNTP service so all
> sorts of funny things can be going on. Get a nice NNTP reader and
> use the NNTP service of you local isp and things will look a lot
> cleaner. There are several open source newsreaders (ask Google!)
> although I use a commercal one on MacOsX. It is an online reader
> as I have a cable modem. I still like the offline reader that I had
> on MacOs back when the bleeding edge was 38k dialups. I have also
> had times when I used PCs and found that I preferred the commercial
> newsreaders there. I tend to prefer a well choosen set of useful
> features out of the box rather than an uncountablely large collection
> of arcane fetures with an awkward set of defaults which is all too
> typical of various open software offerings. Some open software follows
> the usability style so my tar brush is not universal. Gnome vrs KDE
> is a good example of this issue. Or Ubuntu comapred to other Linux
> offerings. "It just works" sounds real good to me so I can spend my
> time on other persuits.
>
> So much for ramblings on isps and newsgroups.
--->Apparently, google has a setting to buck the trend as far as quotation
is concerned.
This was a very informative posting Gordon, but it implies that one
has a constant drip-feed of data through an always-on broadband
connection.
Now, I've just got beyond dial-up, (which has its benefits), but my 1
Mbyte/s broadband (which delivers cable TV too) is only data-active
when I say so. A news feed also implies I must store the data I want,
whereas with Google groups I select and browse THEIR data base.
The point that still escapes me is that I suspected there was ANOTHER
url where I could go to see, with my browser, just "Comp.Lang.Fortran"
for example, without the Google framework and anonimity.
--->yeah, not so much with anonymity:
http://zaxfuuq.net/fortran8_3.htm
What amazing software google has! I think I'm gonna do a little recon on
Terence and fire up google earth for the first time.
I see the earth as you might look at Kansas city. I take the paw and move it
to Sydney. All of a sudden, it starts getting smart. It finds and marks up
the region to reflect political boundaries. I swear the image recognition
stuff started near Singapore, which is a good place to tell your ass from a
hole in the ground, if you're looking down on planet earth. You see the
software marking the edges of Austarlia in the second screen capture.
I then determined that Sydney was part of the least-populated hemisphere,
where the topology is determined by looking at the sphere at arm's distance
(Escher has a good one of these.). Your hand can manipulate the sphere.
You include Sydney and then the Hawaiian Islands. Then the Pacific. Then
you exclude Sydney, and find that this requires that you either include
China, California, or Rio. Widerspruch.
By now, the app has had plenty of time to talk to the mother ship, which it
does easily on a dial-up modem. I seem to have very responsive controls
what with the dingspumps on the top right, that also gives north. All of a
sudden, I'm jonesing for a globe, as I wondered, what's on the other side of
the earth from Sydney? You start playing with that control dingspumps and
find the answer. You start with sydney, press on one of the directional
buttons, and the globe starts heaving in that direction. After pi
revolutions, you're there, using any of the 4 buttons. I thought Minsk was
the antipode, but it appears to be Kiev. The revolotion through pi from
Sydney is shown on the last 2 screendumps.
As I write, I have an application in my tray that has been orbiting earth
along soemthing other than the ecliptic. It's amazing.
--
Reagan Revision
"We are being told that a competent, trustworthy president is someone
who brandishes his religion like a neon sign, loads a gun and goes out
hunting for beautiful winged creatures, and tries to imitate a past
president who, by the way, never shot a bird or felt the need to imitate
anybody."
~~ Patti Davis Is Not Flattered by GOP Candidates' Pale Imitations of
Her Father
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Terence
dial-up experience WAS on almost the opposite point of the globe, at
10N,67W. You can see both my residences from Google Earth; both tall
white 15-storey buildings, if it helps (and it's someone else's car in
my space). But I get my Lahey Fortran e-mail at both places. And if
you know your theatre, no, I'm NOT "The Man from Kiev", nor "The Tenth
Man". And I've forgotten all the Russian I learned to pass University
exams.
But what has all this got to do with how to view this Forum without
using Google?
Reagan Revision
> No Reagan, I am only NOW in Sydney (34S,154E), as a visitor, but my
> dial-up experience WAS on almost the opposite point of the globe, at
> 10N,67W. You can see both my residences from Google Earth; both tall
> white 15-storey buildings, if it helps (and it's someone else's car in
> my space). But I get my Lahey Fortran e-mail at both places. And if
> you know your theatre, no, I'm NOT "The Man from Kiev", nor "The Tenth
> Man". And I've forgotten all the Russian I learned to pass University
> exams.
>
Caracas appears to be closer to the opposite side of the globe of sydney
than was Minsk. I was using the buttons that google provides to spin the
globe and guesstimate when it had reached the other side. The better way to
find it is to ask where the point is that is, as much north as sydney was
south, and (180-sydney.east) western longitude.
http://zaxfuuq.net/fortran8_5.htm shows 10 N, 67 W in its first screenshot.
Then I got to wondering how far it was from being sydney's antipode, and
asked g.e. to find 33N, 36E. Not only does it find it, it helps a traveler
get out there from Caracus! The second screenshot shows a lot of places to
get a helicopter or plane. I didn't realize that Puerto Rico was so near.
> But what has all this got to do with how to view this Forum without
> using Google?
The next 2 screenshots show how a person experiences usenet with google, and
how it looks with a newsfeed and Outlook Express, MS's client. Most people
like it a lot better to have the messages come into their own machines, to
deal with on your own terms.
The final shot shows what happens when you tell google earth to switch to
sky. Overhead is mars here at 34 degrees north. I've always wondered if
Australia and the states viewed a given planet at the same time, meaning,
within 24 hrs. To find out, all I need to do it focus on sydney at around
noon US time and then switch to sky.
--
Terence
The problem went away, with no change to my computer or O/S.
Must have been Google (or moderator?) changing something.
But it was a worrying 4 days.
(Have I backed up everything???)
Wade Ward
Terence *does* see most of the sky that we northerners see. He sees
our winter sky, dominated by Orion. It is summer in Sydney.
Tonight has a brilliant celestial display. At about 21:21 + 9 hrs. US
mtn time, the line that connects cannis major, betelgeuse, mars and
capella will be overhead in sydney. These brightest objects are, for
him, shifted north. The dog star is still in the southern sky for
him, but not by much. Orion is almost exactly as visible for him as
it is for me. I see it in the south. He sees it in the north. Going
north from the dog star through betelgeuse is mars on the ecliptic. I
reckon that Terence sees it as we see Polaris. Capella is beyond what
Terence can see to the north.
There also exists a line from Cannis major through Orion through the
Plieades to Cassiopeia, the final also invisible to Terence and John.
--
Gerry Ford
"Wade Ward" <zax...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7172ace4-f231-4469...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 16, 4:07 pm, Terence <tbwri...@cantv.net> wrote:
Tonight has a brilliant celestial display. At about 21:21 + 9 hrs. US
mtn time, the line that connects cannis major, betelgeuse, mars and
capella will be overhead in sydney. These brightest objects are, for
him, shifted north. The dog star is still in the southern sky for
him, but not by much. Orion is almost exactly as visible for him as
it is for me. I see it in the south. He sees it in the north. Going
north from the dog star through betelgeuse is mars on the ecliptic. I
reckon that Terence sees it as we see Polaris. Capella is beyond what
Terence can see to the north.
--->If Mars is overhead and on the ecliptic, it is where the Schauer sees
the Sun at its zenith. Terence' sun rises lazily in the south, spends most
of its day in the north, then comes back to the south to slumber. Is there
a counterexample to the sun rising in the east, with the exception of
skyviewing within N degrees of the poles, where N <24' ?
--
--
Gerry Ford
"The apple was really a peach."
-- Allison Dunn on the garden of eden
Terence
end of Australia, especially with lower light polution, is nothing
like what northerners see; but yes, most of the (actually 13) northern
constellations (being mainly in the ecliptic) are visible even if
inverted...
Dr Ivan D. Reid
Orion doing a face-plant at 67°36'S:
http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~eesridr/Orion_Mawson.jpg
--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
Terence
And Mars in Orion.
But what's the yellow streak? Surely not Aurora?
Gerry Ford
Meaning Aurora Borealis? Because that's what it looks like to me.
That's one thing I'm wondering about, and why wouldn't they have Southern
Lights just like us?
The other aspect of this shot I don't get is that Orion truly looks to be
getting piledriven: Riga is visible; Betelgeuse is not. The belt appears
to be parallel to the horizon. Terence would see Orion with Betelbeuse as
the right knee, but the figure would be amazingly similar, as he is just
about as far south as we are north --and--Orion starts at about the same
declination for either of us, so it really is a mirror image. How does his
belt twist so as to get piledriven when he sets?
Dr. Reid, can you say a few more words about when, where and whereto this
photo happened?
Dr Ivan D. Reid
1980, Mawson Base, Antarctica; as I said a few degrees south of
the Antarctic Circle. I don't remember exactly when the photo was taken,
probably before midwinter. Ektachrome, ~8 seconds exposure, pushed to
2000 ASA or more in development. The point of the exercise was to
photograph the Aurora _Australis_. Which was reasonably successful. The
large black shape is a neighbouring building, and you can see a pole (radio
mast or similar) to the left and a guy wire with a signal cable looped
around it running up to the pole. The dark irregular shapes across the
skyline are rocky outcrops up on the ice plateau behind the base --
probably Mount Rumdoodle.
The nebula in Orion shows up more clearly than with the human eye
because Ektachrome is relatively more sensitive in the red. I guess that's
what Terence thought was Mars. Compare with
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030207.html
Unfortunately, my Exidy Soorcerer didn't have a Fortran compiler,
and I was reduced to using CBASIC under CP/M to try to analyse the scan
data from our 6" Fabry-Perot interferometer studying airglow spectra.
It was a near-run thing as to whether it was quicker to calculate the trig
functions needed for a 256(?)-point FFT or to read them off a precalculated
file on floppy disk. The floppy just won. (ISTR it took 1'20".)
Terence
> The nebula in Orion shows up more clearly than with the human eye
> because Ektachrome is relatively more sensitive in the red. I guess that's
> what Terence thought was Mars. Compare withhttp://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030207.html
>
Ah! 1980! You see, Mars WAS in Orion this last month in January 2008,
between M1 and M5 (mu,nu Geminii), right at the finger tips of the
Hunter's right arm. I thought, surely the ecliptic was below (your
"above") and not running through Orion as Mars seemed to be doing in
the photo! Anyway I do recognise an Aurora, but most I saw in Canada,
not Tassy.
Gerry Ford
--->That Dr. Reid took the photo within 24 degrees of the south pole
explains, of course, the Aurora, but also the funny angle the belt makes
with the horizon. It's close to noon here in the states, so Terence would
now see Orion in the north and the west. The warrior's arm would have to be
a leg. Mars would be his helmet right now, right on the bilateral axis.
For northerners, something dangles down from his belt, which, for Terence,
would be rising. I'll leave anthropomorphic interpretations to the
individual stargazer on that one.
Less than two hands away on the ecliptic to the east is Saturn in Leo.
Mars symbolizes war. I've decided that the current celestial display could
say "when the warrior exits, so does the war." It doesn't help that this
war is being prosecuted by a person who couldn't find the moon without help.
--
Gerry Ford
"Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:12024974...@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
> Less than two hands away on the ecliptic to the east is Saturn in Leo.
Mars is not two hands but sixty degrees from saturn. Mars, for being "on
the ecliptic" is now very high relative to saturn, the sun and the solar
system.
Saturn is harder to find, but this sky is perfect for the would-be saturn
watcher, in particular in the northern hemisphere. The Big Dipper serves
triple duty here. The problem with finding Saturn right now is that it's
not near anything particularly bright. This turns out to be an advantage in
finding a planet that is brighter than all stars save a couple dozen.
The pointer stars of the Big Dipper, part of the big bear, point to Polaris.
Northerners then know which direction is north. Consequently, you point
them the other way, they point south, every day of the week. They wouldn't,
however, work well as "pointer stars" in the the other direction. Better
you "figure" what is south of them--I simply face south-- as opposed to
cutting an arc in the sky where small errors become large.
Saturn is between bright objects seen at midnight. He is between the dog
star and arcturus. Both stars would be visible to Sydneyites, but the means
to find them differ north to south. In the north, you "arc to arcturus,"
which you do off of the other end of the big dipper. Start at the north
star, go through the pointer stars (backwards), then through the handle to
find the red giant arcturus, which might be the most northern lustrous
object Terence has in his sky. Saturn is almost equidistant between the
first- and third-brightest stars.
Saturn is in Leo, right where his heart would be. Leo is faint and blue
relative to this local bigshot, without a red giant that would be the only
way to explain away the farthest visible planet. You check to see that
you're right by going north and hitting the outer lip of the Big Dipper.
Gary Scott
> "Terence" <tbwr...@cantv.net> wrote in message
> news:ea547fdb-b41f-4ffa...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 14, 3:18 am, Gordon Sande <g.sa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> On 2008-01-12 17:51:14 -0400, Terence <tbwri...@cantv.net> said:
> what with the dingspumps on the top right, that also gives north. All of a
> sudden, I'm jonesing for a globe, as I wondered, what's on the other side of
> the earth from Sydney? You start playing with that control dingspumps and
> find the answer. You start with sydney, press on one of the directional
> buttons, and the globe starts heaving in that direction. After pi
> revolutions, you're there, using any of the 4 buttons. I thought Minsk was
> the antipode, but it appears to be Kiev. The revolotion through pi from
> Sydney is shown on the last 2 screendumps.
>
> As I write, I have an application in my tray that has been orbiting earth
> along soemthing other than the ecliptic. It's amazing.
>
is Thunderbird. It works almost identical to an email program. And its
free.
James Van Buskirk
from 2008. I wonder why all these old posts are reappearing?