fortran.com web site
Walt Brainerd
on the fortran.com web site, correcting links
and removing old items.
If you have something (preferably a link) that
you think I should include, please let me know.
Thanks.
Walt
Luka Djigas
wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but that
page could use some serious redesign job - starting with the
background colour.
with regards
Luka
GaryScott
> On Wed, 13 May 2009 13:17:43 -0700, Walt Brainerd <w...@fortran.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have just finished reviewing all the things
> >on the fortran.com web site, correcting links
> >and removing old items.
>
> >If you have something (preferably a link) that
> >you think I should include, please let me know.
>
> >Thanks.
>
> >Walt
>
> Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but that
> page could use some serious redesign job - starting with the
> background colour.
>
> with regards
> Luka
lol, for me, its hard to get up the energy when the payback from all
the work is so small. My own site hasn't been refreshed in nearly 10
years.
dpb
...
> Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but that
> page could use some serious redesign job - starting with the
> background colour.
Compared to a lot of others, I'd say it's pretty utilitarian, not full
of Flash and doesn't take forever to load for us still relegated to
dialup...
--
viper-2
better dialup!
Before you're persuaded by the utility though, you need to be
attracted to the site. When I found fortran.com a couple months ago,
the site seemed to square with my then (incorrect) perception that
there was little excitement about a language on its way out.
Maybe not flash dpb, but the site could use a facelift!
That said, I found a bunch of useful links on fortran.com. I've also
seen where people are now choosing Fortran over C++. Can you imagine
the migration to Fortran with some upbeat marketing on the main sites?
We could retire the petition to retire.:-)
agt
--
Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!
Code Art Now
http://codeartnow.com
Email: a...@codeartnow.com
dpb
...
> Before you're persuaded by the utility though, you need to be
> attracted to the site. When I found fortran.com a couple months ago,
> the site seemed to square with my then (incorrect) perception that
> there was little excitement about a language on its way out.
>
> Maybe not flash dpb, but the site could use a facelift!
I guess it depends on whether one is attract by glitter or
utility/content. I'm of an age where it could be nothing but straight
text links to what I'm interested in and that would be just as
attractive as whatever. Granted, I generally would just as soon use a
text ftp interface if there was a directory structure and a "readme"
online to use to navigate. But, I recognize I AM a fogey... :)
As Gary says, where's the payback to the site owner to justify the
cost/effort?
Somehow "excitement" and any programming language don't seem to have
anything in common w/ each other.
--
Franken Sense
I clicked on the syntax, and this is typical:
Constraint: The subroutine-name in the end-subroutine-stmt shall be
identical to the subroutine-name specified in the subroutine-stmt.
R208 execution-part
is [ executable-construct ] ...
R215 executable-construct
is action-stmt
or case-construct
or do-construct
or forall-construct
or if-construct
or where-construct
Does F piggyback on fortran? Does it have its own standard? I always like
finding something written in F; then I know it's gonna work.
--
Frank
There's no liberal echo chamber in this country. There's a right-wing echo
chamber. I want to create a countervailing echo chamber.
~~ Al Franken, Chicago Tribune interview, on
viper-2
> viper-2 wrote:
>
> ...> Before you're persuaded by the utility though, you need to be
> > attracted to the site. When I found fortran.com a couple months ago,
> > the site seemed to square with my then (incorrect) perception that
> > there was little excitement about a language on its way out.
>
> > Maybe not flash dpb, but the site could use a facelift!
>
> ...
> <snip> But, I recognize I AM a fogey... :)
Definition of "fogey":
Someone who doesn't think that "excitement" and "programming" have
anything in common.
> Somehow "excitement" and any programming language don't seem to have
> anything in common w/ each other.
ROFL
Richard Maine
> viper-2 wrote:
> ...
> > Before you're persuaded by the utility though, you need to be
> > attracted to the site. When I found fortran.com a couple months ago,
> > the site seemed to square with my then (incorrect) perception that
> > there was little excitement about a language on its way out.
> >
> > Maybe not flash dpb, but the site could use a facelift!
> ...
> I guess it depends on whether one is attract by glitter or
> utility/content.
..
> As Gary says, where's the payback to the site owner to justify the
> cost/effort?
And where is the skill to do such a facelift? Just saying that it needs
one doesn't help and can well be counterproductive.
I have lots of experience over almost 4 decades of seeing what many
people did to even text, as in those old-fashioned book things, to help
to try to give it a "facelift". Almost invariably, a big mistake that
amateurs in typesetting make is to use too many fonts and styles. It
makes their documents garish and hard to read. Typesetting professionals
are familiar with this. This isn't new to the web. I get the impression
that it wasn't new in the typesetting business 4 decades ago when I
first started learning about such things.
That's about the kind of thing you are likely to get if you just tell
someone to jazz up their web site. Unless they are actually skilled in
the artristry of such things, that's likely to get translated into
distracting clutter. If they were skilled in such things, likely they
already would have done it. So I conclude that there isn't much benefit,
and likely more harm, in just saying to jazz up the site, unless it
comes with an offer to actually do it (and then the site owner would
have to deal with the question of whether he trusted the offerrer's
judgement).
Hiring out such things professionally is no guarantee of quality work
either. There seem to be a lot of people who take some course in how to
put lots of fancy glitter on a web site and then try to hire themselves
out as web designers. They don't necessarily have a clue about how to
design something that actually is attractive, but they know how to add
all kinds of flourishes and figure that the more they add, the more it
must be worth.
P.S. I know I'm no good at such things. I'll claim it to be a good point
that at least I know my limitations in this area.
--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
Luka Djigas
>I guess it depends on whether one is attract by glitter or
>utility/content. I'm of an age where it could be nothing but straight
>text links to what I'm interested in and that would be just as
>attractive as whatever.
Of course that content and functionality come first - no doubt about
that.
But when I mentioned a redesign, I didn't mean anything drastic. I
ment something like changing the background (please :-) to for
example, white; font to let's say - Consolas, Inconsolata, Arial;
throw a picture or two and voila - a new site.
For example, www.polyhedron.com is content oriented, but also quite
pleasing to the eye. No flash & other bandwidth wasting stuff.
(Still, for some reason even with my ADSL connection it sometimes
loads terribly slow, but I think that's a problem with the connection,
not the content).
Someone also mentioned that outdated content (I divide all design
content in categories 'modern'-'conservative'-'outdated'-'looks like
my old 1995. home page' categories) can also knock off newbies to
fortran. You wouldn't believe it but it's true. When I'm describing
fortran to someone who's heard of it before, one of their first
adjectives will be 'old and outdated language'.
But it doesn't have to be like that - with a little marketing it has a
potential to rise as a mainstream language again - expecially in the
competition with today's general mainstream languages that are
becoming so abstract that they're putting off the physics guys or any
other -non-programmers by trade- people).
Just my 0,02 eurocents
Luka
p.s. I admit, what would be in it for the webmaster except the
satisfaction with the job well done, is unknown to me :-(
p.s.2. fortranwiki, with its new easy to modify concept has quite a
chance to become one of the central fortran locations.
viper-2
>
> And where is the skill to do such a facelift? Just saying that it needs
> one doesn't help and can well be counterproductive.
>
> and likely more harm, in just saying to jazz up the site ...
To the tune of "All That Jazz" from the musical "Chicago"
Apologies to John Kander, Fred Ebb, and Guy Steele:
Come on Babe
Why don't we paint the town
And all that jazz
That Fortress Guy
Is just a Scheming Clown
And all that jazz
Fortran has a place
Will always be a roun'
Jus tryin' to play a part
To get a brand new start
We're gonna brush the sky
Get a Fortran high
... And all that Jazz!
There's no intention to be couterproductive. Some people are just more
responsive to visual stimuli than others. I'm sure Walt recognizes
that my comments were born out of appreciation for the work put into
building his site.
Lighten up!;-)
Jugoslav Dujic
> dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:
>
>> viper-2 wrote:
>> ...
>>> Before you're persuaded by the utility though, you need to be
>>> attracted to the site. When I found fortran.com a couple months ago,
>>> the site seemed to square with my then (incorrect) perception that
>>> there was little excitement about a language on its way out.
>>>
>>> Maybe not flash dpb, but the site could use a facelift!
>> ...
>> I guess it depends on whether one is attract by glitter or
>> utility/content.
> ..
>> As Gary says, where's the payback to the site owner to justify the
>> cost/effort?
>
> And where is the skill to do such a facelift? Just saying that it needs
> one doesn't help and can well be counterproductive.
Well, I'm far from an expert on web technology and design (heck,
my own personal website was created with Microsoft FrontPage,
a decision I deeply regret), but:
a) careful creation of one .css file,
(e.g. http://www.gregtutor.plus.com/webdesign/externalcss.html)
b) usage of an included sidebar in order to get rid of the frames
(http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/creating/include.html)
c) a global replace in all site pages to insert reference
to a) and b), with perhaps an icon around
(<LINK href="foobar.ico" rel="SHORTCUT ICON">)
could do wonders for design and maintainability in a fairly short time.
--
Jugoslav
www.xeffort.com
Please reply to the newsgroup.
You can find my real e-mail on my home page above.
viper-2
All I can think of just now is a link to the new Fortran wiki begun by
Jason Blevins:
<http://fortranwiki.org/>
and maybe some new close ups of Sophie <http://fortran.com/
sophie.html> to add some jazz.:-)
Revised version:
To the tune of "All That Jazz" from the musical "Chicago".
Apologies to John Kander, Fred Ebb, and Guy Steele:
Come on Babe
Why don't we paint the town
And all that jazz!
Fortran has a place
Will always be a roun'
To add some jazz!
That Fortress Guy has no Scheme
To take our Fortran down
And all our jazz!
I'm jus tryin' to play a part
To get a brand new start
We're gonna brush the sky
Get a Fortran high
... From all that Jazz!
See thread "Petition against Fortran":
<http://tinyurl.com/pvv4g5>
Dave Allured
On this page "Standards Documents":
http://fortran.com/stds_docs.html
More recent standards are needed. For starters, add a link to this
page:
http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/GFortranStandards
Also I recommend that you hyperlink "the J3 documents" in the first
paragraph.
--Dave
Dick Hendrickson
> In Dread Ink, the Grave Hand of Walt Brainerd Did Inscribe:
>
>> I have just finished reviewing all the things
>> on the fortran.com web site, correcting links
>> and removing old items.
>>
>> If you have something (preferably a link) that
>> you think I should include, please let me know.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Walt
>
> I clicked on the syntax, and this is typical:
>
> Constraint: The subroutine-name in the end-subroutine-stmt shall be
> identical to the subroutine-name specified in the subroutine-stmt.
>
> R208 execution-part
> is [ executable-construct ] ...
>
> R215 executable-construct
> is action-stmt
> or case-construct
> or do-construct
> or forall-construct
> or if-construct
> or where-construct
>
> Does F piggyback on fortran? Does it have its own standard? I always like
> finding something written in F; then I know it's gonna work.
F is a subset of F95 with some F2003 stuff added. Mostly, the old
fashioned redundant features were eliminated and a few (or too many,
depending on your point of view) value judgments were imposed
on syntax.
Dick Hendrickson
Walt Brainerd
Excellent. I think I will link directly to this page
as it contains all of the information on my page
(including a few links to fortran.com :-).
Thanks to all who have responded. I think I basically
agree with all of you. I want to keep it simple. It
certainly could use some "jazzing up". And I do have
some motivation to keep it up not only as a service
to the community but to attract interest in the Fortran
training, which still earns me a few bucks.
viper-2
> It
> certainly could use some "jazzing up". And I do have
> some motivation to keep it up not only as a service
> to the community but to attract interest in the Fortran
> training, which still earns me a few bucks.
The payback may amount to much more than a few bucks. I bet even old
Fortran fogeys will be delighted with a touch of jazz!
Gary Scott
> On May 15, 1:33 pm, Walt Brainerd <w...@fortran.com> wrote:
>
>>It
>>certainly could use some "jazzing up". And I do have
>>some motivation to keep it up not only as a service
>>to the community but to attract interest in the Fortran
>>training, which still earns me a few bucks.
>
>
> The payback may amount to much more than a few bucks. I bet even old
> Fortran fogeys will be delighted with a touch of jazz!
I prefer bluegrass to jazz.
>
> agt
>
>
> --
> Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!
>
> Code Art Now
> http://codeartnow.com
> Email: a...@codeartnow.com
--
Gary Scott
mailto:garylscott@sbcglobal dot net
Fortran Library: http://www.fortranlib.com
Support the Original G95 Project: http://www.g95.org
-OR-
Support the GNU GFortran Project: http://gcc.gnu.org/fortran/index.html
If you want to do the impossible, don't hire an expert because he knows
it can't be done.
-- Henry Ford
Franken Sense
Is there an F standard in closed form in a .pdf?
--
Frank
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.
~~ Al Franken
viper-2
> viper-2 wrote:
> > On May 15, 1:33 pm, Walt Brainerd <w...@fortran.com> wrote:
>
> >>It
> >>certainly could use some "jazzing up". And I do have
> >>some motivation to keep it up not only as a service
> >>to the community but to attract interest in the Fortran
> >>training, which still earns me a few bucks.
>
> > The payback may amount to much more than a few bucks. I bet even old
> > Fortran fogeys will be delighted with a touch of jazz!
>
> I prefer bluegrass to jazz.
Noted!
Dick Hendrickson
something a few guys dreamed up after a lifetime of
consuming various chemicals.
If you go to www.fortran.com and then click on
"Information about F"
and then on
"About F"
you'll get to a page that has a link
"The syntax of F, in BNF form"
which might be what you want. I'm not sure if it's
in "closed form", but it is finite ;).
There's also the inverse of the syntax under the link to
"What is in Fortran 95 but not in F".
Hope that helps,
Dick Hendrickson
Franken Sense
I've been reading _The Omnivore's Dilemma_, and I'm afraid that almost all
of our cohort ingests the same chemicals. The mass spectroposcpy of a
McDonald's meal might dampen your belief that you can opt out of garbage
in.
I recognize Walt Brainerd as a name that appears before either yours or
Richard's on a text that I consider, along with MRC, to be contemporary,
authoritative fortran references.
I've never seen F break. I have limited experience.
Thomas Koenig
>> Is there an F standard in closed form in a .pdf?
> There isn't a "standard" in any official form. It's just
> something a few guys dreamed up after a lifetime of
> consuming various chemicals.
Who doesn't? *reaches for his glass of hydrogen oxide*
Gordon Sande
Beware that dihydrogen monoxide is toxic in large quantities!
Dick Hendrickson
Dick Hendrickson
robin
news:slrnh15s7c....@meiner.onlinehome.de...
The chemical that you really need to watch out for is the second
part of Hydrogen Oxide.
It's readily absorbed by the lungs, gets into the bloodstream,
and is then freely distributed through all parts of the body.
robin
news:2009051915095016807-gsande@worldnetattnet...
Indeed it is, as one person found out just a few weeks ago
after being admitted to hospital in a critical (life-threatening) condition
(with low electrolytes in the blood).
Franken Sense
On the contrary, the Bush-Obama policy is that it's better for inmates to
receive small amounts daily, with a towel over the mouth, so as to adhere
to the FDA's guidelines on hydrating.
Waterboarding: FDA approved.
--
Frank
In many ways I'm still a Hubert Humphrey Democrat -- someone who believes
in afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted. A society is
judged by how it treats the elderly, the sick, the impoverished. To me it's
a matter of ethics and compassion.
~~ Al Franken, Playboy interview
Franken Sense
> Gordon Sande wrote:
Next time I come to Twin Cities, I'll invite you to Nye's with us.
It has everything: a piano, a virtuoso who can transpose anything on the
keys, a microphone, bartenders in suits who don't do bad things to good
booze, and Stella Artois on tap for me.
I think Belgium might me leading the free world now, in particular, their
navy.
--
Frank
It's the Power of the Almighty, the Splendor of Nature, and then you.
~~ Al Franken