Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
BASIC vs FORTH
457 views
Skip to first unread message
Alexander Wegel
Dec 31, 2014, 11:27:20 AM12/31/14
to
Hi all.
Really noone should be using FORTH - but don't take my word on it,
rather believe the master:
http://lennartb.home.xs4all.nl/forthhoax.txt
Really noone should be using FORTH - but don't take my word on it,
rather believe the master:
http://lennartb.home.xs4all.nl/forthhoax.txt
visua...@rocketmail.com
Dec 31, 2014, 1:30:52 PM12/31/14
to
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 11:27:20 AM UTC-5, Alexander Wegel wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> Really no one should be using FORTH - but don't take my word on it,
A real interesting satire!
One sentence struck me:
"When the TRS80 came out, its developers wanted to build FORTH into it"
Does anybody know if this is true?
By the way, Lennart Benschop wrote about this "interview" on c.l.f. twenty years ago: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/6J1_ldlf1g8
Seems to be he added it to his own website.
There he writes:
"This is yet another boring homepage of yet another boring person."
He is working at a company that designs cryptographic chips and software, and one of his Programming Projects is an emulator for a 32-bit stack machine, called SOD32, designed to run Forth.
And on http://lennartb.home.xs4all.nl/forth.html he confesses "Forth is not a joke, though I once wrote a fake interview with Charles Moore in which he confessed it was. By the way, the real WSOY radio station is located in Decatur IL. Even worse, WSOY is also the name of one of FInland's largest publishing companies. What's in a name? Like all three-letter and four-letter combinations WSOY also has to be the assembler mnemonic for some bizarre instruction on some bizarre machine."
So I have to add that he not only added the "Interview" to his own website, but he wrote it by himself.
> Hi all.
>
> Really no one should be using FORTH - but don't take my word on it,
A real interesting satire!
One sentence struck me:
"When the TRS80 came out, its developers wanted to build FORTH into it"
Does anybody know if this is true?
By the way, Lennart Benschop wrote about this "interview" on c.l.f. twenty years ago: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/6J1_ldlf1g8
Seems to be he added it to his own website.
There he writes:
"This is yet another boring homepage of yet another boring person."
He is working at a company that designs cryptographic chips and software, and one of his Programming Projects is an emulator for a 32-bit stack machine, called SOD32, designed to run Forth.
And on http://lennartb.home.xs4all.nl/forth.html he confesses "Forth is not a joke, though I once wrote a fake interview with Charles Moore in which he confessed it was. By the way, the real WSOY radio station is located in Decatur IL. Even worse, WSOY is also the name of one of FInland's largest publishing companies. What's in a name? Like all three-letter and four-letter combinations WSOY also has to be the assembler mnemonic for some bizarre instruction on some bizarre machine."
So I have to add that he not only added the "Interview" to his own website, but he wrote it by himself.
Alexander Wegel
Dec 31, 2014, 9:34:59 PM12/31/14
to
<visua...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 11:27:20 AM UTC-5, Alexander Wegel wrote:
> > Hi all.
> >
> > Really no one should be using FORTH - but don't take my word on it,
> > rather believe the master:
> >
> > http://lennartb.home.xs4all.nl/forthhoax.txt
>
> A real interesting satire!
Is it? ;-)
> On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 11:27:20 AM UTC-5, Alexander Wegel wrote:
> > Hi all.
> >
> > Really no one should be using FORTH - but don't take my word on it,
> > rather believe the master:
> >
> > http://lennartb.home.xs4all.nl/forthhoax.txt
>
> A real interesting satire!
> One sentence struck me:
> "When the TRS80 came out, its developers wanted to build FORTH into it"
>
> Does anybody know if this is true?
things (such as trs80).
Q - How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
A - Three: nobody needs a forth programmer.
Happy new year!
visua...@rocketmail.com
Dec 31, 2014, 11:21:08 PM12/31/14
to
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 9:34:59 PM UTC-5, Alexander Wegel wrote:
<I> Yes, it is!
<II> Wrong answer!
A Forth programmer does it by himself!
<II> Wrong answer!
A Forth programmer does it by himself!
Mark Wills
Jan 1, 2015, 1:24:50 AM1/1/15
to
It's true that a forth programmer does it all by himself, but upon an initial inspection of the work to be carried out, he determines, unilaterally, that the light bulb is "unsuitable" for the task at hand and sets about developing a new one. The new bulb is "better" but requires a new bulb holder which is not compatible with any of the standard bulb holders in use. The new bulb also pulls more current so requires a more robust switch to be installed. It only takes six weeks to complete the job. Whilst it is true that the bulb could have been replaced in 60 seconds with one of the original type, the new solution is "better" because the Forth programmer designed it himself, by himself, with no help or advice from anyone else, because he knows better than anyone else.
Anton Ertl
Jan 1, 2015, 11:20:32 AM1/1/15
to
Mark Wills <markwi...@gmail.com> writes:
>It's true that a forth programmer does it all by himself, but upon an initi=
>al inspection of the work to be carried out, he determines, unilaterally, t=
>hat the light bulb is "unsuitable" for the task at hand and sets about deve=
>loping a new one. The new bulb is "better" but requires a new bulb holder w=
>hich is not compatible with any of the standard bulb holders in use. The ne=
>w bulb also pulls more current so requires a more robust switch to be insta=
>lled.
"More current" is probably a Java requirement. The Forth bulb is, of
course, more efficient, and requires less current, but a non-standard
voltage. And of course installing an additional transformer close to
the light bulb would be inefficient, so the Forth programmer installs
a house transformer and wiring for the Forth voltage. Of course, if
everything was converted to Forth, the Forth approach would save lots,
but the user is to stubborn to do that, so now he has two house
transformers and two sets of wirings.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/
>It's true that a forth programmer does it all by himself, but upon an initi=
>al inspection of the work to be carried out, he determines, unilaterally, t=
>hat the light bulb is "unsuitable" for the task at hand and sets about deve=
>loping a new one. The new bulb is "better" but requires a new bulb holder w=
>hich is not compatible with any of the standard bulb holders in use. The ne=
>w bulb also pulls more current so requires a more robust switch to be insta=
>lled.
"More current" is probably a Java requirement. The Forth bulb is, of
course, more efficient, and requires less current, but a non-standard
voltage. And of course installing an additional transformer close to
the light bulb would be inefficient, so the Forth programmer installs
a house transformer and wiring for the Forth voltage. Of course, if
everything was converted to Forth, the Forth approach would save lots,
but the user is to stubborn to do that, so now he has two house
transformers and two sets of wirings.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/
visua...@rocketmail.com
Jan 1, 2015, 1:13:16 PM1/1/15
to
On Thursday, January 1, 2015 11:20:32 AM UTC-5, Anton Ertl wrote:
Reminds me on Tesla vs. Edison aka AC vs. DC.
Concerning Programming we are still at DC, which was Edison's current mainstream.
Concerning Programming we are still at DC, which was Edison's current mainstream.
JUERGEN
Jan 1, 2015, 1:54:58 PM1/1/15
to
So what is available out there??
And All The Best for 2015
lynx
Jan 2, 2015, 6:26:57 AM1/2/15
to
In <28227034-98ba-4a0d...@googlegroups.com> Mark Wills <markwi...@gmail.com> writes:
>It's true that a forth programmer does it all by himself, but upon an initi=
>al inspection of the work to be carried out, he determines, unilaterally, t=
>hat the light bulb is "unsuitable" for the task at hand and sets about deve=
>loping a new one. The new bulb is "better" but requires a new bulb holder w=
>hich is not compatible with any of the standard bulb holders in use. The ne=
>w bulb also pulls more current so requires a more robust switch to be insta=
>lled. It only takes six weeks to complete the job. Whilst it is true that t=
>he bulb could have been replaced in 60 seconds with one of the original typ=
>e, the new solution is "better" because the Forth programmer designed it h=
>imself, by himself, with no help or advice from anyone else, because he =
actually need a lightbulb. ;-)
>It's true that a forth programmer does it all by himself, but upon an initi=
>al inspection of the work to be carried out, he determines, unilaterally, t=
>hat the light bulb is "unsuitable" for the task at hand and sets about deve=
>loping a new one. The new bulb is "better" but requires a new bulb holder w=
>hich is not compatible with any of the standard bulb holders in use. The ne=
>w bulb also pulls more current so requires a more robust switch to be insta=
>lled. It only takes six weeks to complete the job. Whilst it is true that t=
>he bulb could have been replaced in 60 seconds with one of the original typ=
>e, the new solution is "better" because the Forth programmer designed it h=
>imself, by himself, with no help or advice from anyone else, because he =
>knows better than anyone else.
Some Forth programmers, after some thought, would decide they didn't
actually need a lightbulb. ;-)
hughag...@gmail.com
Jan 2, 2015, 8:29:39 PM1/2/15
to
On Friday, January 2, 2015 4:26:57 AM UTC-7, lynx wrote:
> Some Forth programmers, after some thought, would decide they didn't
> actually need a lightbulb. ;-)
I started a light-bulb joke thread on comp.lang.lisp to continue in this vein:
> Some Forth programmers, after some thought, would decide they didn't
> actually need a lightbulb. ;-)
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/0XhO2KXlOcw
BTW: while I was over there, I noticed that WJ has taken over the forum by starting multiple threads in which he posts code for a simple problem in a language other than Lisp --- I didn't notice him post any Forth code on the Lisp forum, but that would be pretty ironic, as he posts Lisp code on the Forth forum.
visua...@rocketmail.com
Jan 2, 2015, 10:18:25 PM1/2/15
to
assume that there is a shared understanding of the existence some stereotype
about something between the joker and the audience.
0 new messages