LMI UR/Forth download

[Cecil Bayona]

I'm looking at various old Forth and I'm interested in getting a copy of
LMI UR/Forth specially the Windows version.

I seen several articles that mention that it was free when Ray Duncan
decided to shut down his business, but I have not found a downloadable
link. I vaguely recall seeing it at www.forth.org but it doesn't seem to
be there anymore.

Anyone out there have a clue where I can find a copy, Google seems to
offer little help.

Thanks
--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Paul Rubin]

Cecil Bayona <cba...@cbayona.com> writes:
> I'm looking at various old Forth and I'm interested in getting a copy
> of LMI UR/Forth specially the Windows version.

I see "LMI WinForth V1.01" on http://forth.org/compilers.html

I've no idea if that's the same thing as UR/Forth.

[Cecil Bayona]

Thanks for the link, I've seen references to NTForth but not WinForth,
however, it's by LMI so it must be a version of it or similar.

One more toy to play with.

Again Thanks.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Cecil Bayona]

On 7/5/2016 2:17 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

Looks like it won't run in Windows 10, not unusual with old software,
will have to try it in a Win7 Virtual PC later today when I get back
from running errands.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Cecil Bayona]

On 7/5/2016 2:17 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

Well the site says is a Windows Forth, but it is not, it will not even
run in a Windows 7 DOS box, so the search continues, there was a free
Win32 version available at one time.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Steve Graham]

UR/Forth was for DOS. And I believe WinForth was the first Windows Forth and it easily predates Win 7.

[Cecil Bayona]

On 7/5/2016 7:53 PM, Steve Graham wrote:
> UR/Forth was for DOS. And I believe WinForth was the first Windows Forth and it easily predates Win 7.
>

I have seen references to NTForth, a Win32 version of LMI Forth, the one
in the link gives an error message that I need to get the Win32 version,
which this one is not. This one will not run under DOS either, it's
neither DOS nor Win32 (Win16 was in use for a while and then was
deprecated), the ones released just before closing the business are
supposed to be a Win32 version.

So I keep looking, the Win32 LMI Forth is mentioned in emails that it is
available for free, but is there is no link to download the file. Unless
it's a Win32 version it's of not much use.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[hughag...@gmail.com]

I experimented with that a little bit and it appeared to be the same as UR/Forth except running under Windows rather than MS-DOS. As I recall, that was one of the very first compilers available for Windows, of any language --- I think it was designed for Windows 3.1 which was 16-bit.

It doesn't run under the modern Windows versions. I don't recall which version of Windows I was using when I got it to run --- that was maybe 15 years ago though.

Is it even possible to run 16-bit software under Windows anymore? Also, do the modern x86 chips still have a 16-bit mode?

[Cecil Bayona]

Modern Intel CPUs are compatible all the way back to the I8088, the
issue is that the software at www.forth.org is made for Win16 which was
deprecated a long time ago. There are messages and sites that mention
that just before LMI was shutdown they released a free copy of their
Forth running under Win32 which is what I'm looking for, it's of not
much use for me if it can't run under Win32 specially if the source is
not available.

For the longest time I used Pygmy Forth a descendant of cmForth by
Charles Moore. Full source is available, but it's a DOS program, but it
will run in a DOS box in 32 bit Windows 7.

I like Pygmy, it's small and simple, and comes with a meta-compiler that
is simple to understand but it would need to be modified to use Win32 as
the output format. I been looking at some books on Win32 programming and
it's not as difficult as I anticipated, so worse case I can modify the
source code, compile it once under a DOS box, and from then on it will
be a Win32 Forth, that is assuming you don't end up with a million bugs.

In anticipation, I setup several of my PCs, with Visual Studio, MASM in
various versions, FASM, and some editing tools. The purpose of the
project is to have a small simple Forth that is easily modified to
generate versions of itself for Soft FPGA Forth CPUs. Right now I am
using eForth for that purpose and it's working OK, but I'm not sure at
this point if I have the complete source to the core WIN32 eForth, and
before I pour a lot of time into this project I want to secure the
source code to everything involved so I can deal with future issues.
Right now Forth sites are disappearing at a pretty good clip, and with
it the code so either one gets it now or do without forever.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Richard Owlett]

On 7/6/2016 3:58 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> Right now Forth sites
> are disappearing at a pretty good clip, and with it the code so
> either one gets it now or do without forever.
>

The "Wayback Machine" http://archive.org/web/web.php may be useful.

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 05 Jul 16 at group /comp/lang/forth in article 38d1563f-6a35-4b12...@googlegroups.com

<hughag...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Is it even possible to run 16-bit software under Windows anymore?

My mailer (XP aka CrossPoint) is 16bit DOS and runs (after some hickups)
in W7X86 Ultimate DOSbox.

>Also, do the modern x86 chips still have a 16-bit mode?

I think so, otherwise my XP wouldn`t run.

Mine is a little outdated P5 Dual-Core e5700 3GHz


Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Ich bin in Paraguay lebender Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

[Cecil Bayona]

Thanks for the link to the "Wayback Machine", but in order to use the
"Wayback Machine", you have to have a url, one thing I have not found in
this case, lots of mentions of free downloads, but no links, even in
emails from Ray Duncan himself. Another thing is that rarely does the
"Wayback Machine" have downloads. It's good if what you are looking for
is the webpage itself for the information it contains, not so good for
file downloads.

I have, and will keep looking for a while but it's beginning to look
like a lost cause in this case, one more item lost to history in Forth
ever moving decay, that doesn't not bode well for the future of Forth,
it's few adherents mostly consisting of older grey headed persons are
loosing interest and letting the information and software disappear.
I've thought of collecting some of the available information and making
it available, the problem is that many will not allow mirroring of their
sites, then one day their site is gone and it's too late.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Julian Fondren]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 10:20:51 AM UTC-5, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
>
> I have, and will keep looking for a while but it's beginning to look
> like a lost cause in this case, one more item lost to history in Forth
> ever moving decay, that doesn't not bode well for the future of Forth,
> it's few adherents mostly consisting of older grey headed persons are
> loosing interest and letting the information and software disappear.
> I've thought of collecting some of the available information and making
> it available, the problem is that many will not allow mirroring of their
> sites, then one day their site is gone and it's too late.
>

"You have disappointed me so I am going to punish you by pronouncing your
death", the post. In my experience thriving commmunities are *less* interested
in keeping bitrotten and abandoned resources around. Go ask Perl people to
help you find and learn perl4 and see how patient they are with you. I bet
that PHP people will be more interested in getting you to use PHP7 than in
entertaining your questions about PHP 5.2. I once helped translate an early
Ruby tutorial by matz, the one where you wrote a proto-irb script; if you go
asking Ruby people for it, because "you want to learn Ruby", they're probably
not going to help you much beyond pointing you to modern tutorials or books.

If you want to produce apps for Windows, you have

. Win32Forth
, iForth
. SwiftForth
. VFX Forth

in rough order of price. Win32Forth is free; SwiftForth and VFX Forth have
generous evaluation copies.


-- Julian

[jf...@ms4.hinet.net]

I have the "LMI Forth for Windows" version 1.01 (released at AUG1995) which works under Win7. It's in a self-extracted exe file. If you are interested, I can mail it to you.

--Jach

[hughag...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 6:20:26 PM UTC-7, jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> I have the "LMI Forth for Windows" version 1.01 (released at AUG1995) which works under Win7. It's in a self-extracted exe file. If you are interested, I can mail it to you.
>
> --Jach

I'd be interested too --- please email it to me if you don't mind --- the copy I have won't run under Windows 7.

hughag...@gmail.com

thanks --- Hugh

[HAA]

Cecil Bayona wrote:
> ...

> So I keep looking, the Win32 LMI Forth is mentioned in emails that it is
> available for free, but is there is no link to download the file. Unless
> it's a Win32 version it's of not much use.

Forth-94 and Win32 would have required Ray to update all his products.
The amount of work necessary may well have factored in his decision
to wind up LMI.

[Elizabeth D. Rather]

His decision to return to Medical School and get a postdoctoral degree
in Neonatology and return to practice was a major factor.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[Cecil Bayona]

On 7/6/2016 8:20 PM, jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> I have the "LMI Forth for Windows" version 1.01 (released at AUG1995) which works under Win7. It's in a self-extracted exe file. If you are interested, I can mail it to you.
>
> --Jach
>

Please do, I been looking for that Forth on and off for a long time, and
would like to check it out.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[jf...@ms4.hinet.net]

Cecil and Hugh, let me know if you didn't receive the file.

--Jach

[Cecil Bayona]

On 7/7/2016 5:46 AM, jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> Cecil and Hugh, let me know if you didn't receive the file.
>
> --Jach
>
>

Thank You, and yes, I received it just fine.

I'm presently setting up a Virtual Windows 7 i386 PC and while at it a
Win10 i386 virtual PC while the upgrades are free, to make sure it has a
good chance of working.

The Windows 7 32 bit Pro edition supports the use of Win16 so I have the
Win16 version from Forth.org working, I'm hoping your version is the
Win32 version, the Win32 version has been referred to as NTForth which a
search for a download gets one nowhere. I will be trying it out shortly.

Thanks again.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[hughag...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 3:46:47 AM UTC-7, jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> Cecil and Hugh, let me know if you didn't receive the file.
>
> --Jach

I got it --- thanks --- I'll let you know if it works on my Windows version.

[HAA]

Cecil Bayona wrote:
> ...

> I'm hoping your version is the
> Win32 version, the Win32 version has been referred to as NTForth which a
> search for a download gets one nowhere. I will be trying it out shortly.
>
> Thanks again.

Interesting because according to the following the 32bit version wasn't
supposed to happen...

http://computer-programming-forum.com/22-forth/7dc1fabb7c9e572b.htm

[Cecil Bayona]

Interesting information, could be true, not much but often contradictory
information is available on the LMI Win32 version of Forth.

In any case for my purposes I need the Win32 bit version, better yet the
source, but searches on occasion for several years have proved
fruitless, so we move on, but keep our eyes open in case it's available
somewhere.

Right now I'm using a version of eForth called weForth for my purposes
which is generating native eForth for FPGA Forth CPUs. weForth does the
job, it comes with a simple meta-compiler, and even works in Windows 10
64 bit. I have what I believe is the source to the core Forth in
assembler, but I have not tried to run it on an assembler and see if my
source is valid but in any case it's close enough.

There is a newer fancier version of weForth called F#, a bad choice of
names, and a couple of days ago I found the source to it thanks to Jack
Fong. Maybe it the source but after I assembled it, it did not use a
Windows graphical window like my original copy without source from C H
Ting, so it's a modification. Looking at the source it's a mess, tons of
Windows code, but why? I been playing with the assembler MASM lately and
put together some simple Windows 32 applications using the graphical
Windows, and it was simple and only needed a handful of instructions so
I'm not sure why it's so complicated.

--
Cecil - k5nwa

[Steve Graham]

In what sense was his Forth used for laboratories?

[krishna...@ccreweb.org]

Steve Graham wrote:
> In what sense was his Forth used for laboratories?

I used LMI's DOS-based Forth systems from roughly the mid 1980s to the late 1990s. My primary applications during that time was laboratory data acquistion and instrument control, graphics (visualization), and analysis. One example was an image acquisition and analysis package for Data Translation frame grabber boards under UR/Forth. Under DOS and 32-bit DOS extenders, the Forth systems provided the user with total control of hardware resources. I remember getting technical help directly from Ray Duncan over the phone, related to UR/Forth.

Krishna

[hughag...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 10:42:56 AM UTC-7, Steve Graham wrote:
> In what sense was his Forth used for laboratories?

Ray Duncan is a medical doctor.