Wiki reader

[Mark Wills]

The price of the handheld WikiReader on Amazon has tumbled from the
100's of dollars to $14 (in the USA).

In the UK, it's £20:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pandigital-Handheld-Electronic-Encyclopedia-Wikipedia/dp/B0039NLVB2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349549948&sr=8-4

Looks like they're selling the stock out and then that'll be it. If
anyone is interested in getting one, now might be a good time.

Note: These machines run Forth. You can place ANS Forth text files on
the SD card and it will happily compile and run them. It comes with a
number of Forth words to allow GUI interaction, SD card access etc.

Also, if you hook it up to a serial port and a terminal emulator you
get a Forth prompt and you're off.

I just bought mine! At that price, I couldn't resist it!

[Mark Wills]

On Oct 6, 8:02 pm, Mark Wills <forthfr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The price of the handheld WikiReader on Amazon has tumbled from the
> 100's of dollars to $14 (in the USA).
>
> In the UK, it's £20:
>

> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pandigital-Handheld-Electronic-Encyclopedia-W...

>
> Looks like they're selling the stock out and then that'll be it. If
> anyone is interested in getting one, now might be a good time.
>
> Note: These machines run Forth. You can place ANS Forth text files on
> the SD card and it will happily compile and run them. It comes with a
> number of Forth words to allow GUI interaction, SD card access etc.
>
> Also, if you hook it up to a serial port and a terminal emulator you
> get a Forth prompt and you're off.
>
> I just bought mine! At that price, I couldn't resist it!

Some more links:

http://createuniverses.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/wikireader-forth-simulator.html
http://toddbot.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/wikireader-forth-and-hacking.html
http://www.tuxbrain.com/en/content/wikireader-hidden-menus
http://www.pulster.de/info/openmoko/wikireader/openmoko-wikireader-faq-pulster.htm
http://github.com/wikireader/wikireader/wiki/software-information

[rickman]

Interesting. I found the info about updating the wiki info so it can be
kept relatively up to date, at least for now. If they are closing them
out they might not continue to provide updates. I wonder if they are
replacing it with a new model?

I'd like to use these as front panels if I can get to the serial port.
I'm a little confused about that. I can't find much info on it. Did I
miss that? The github page talks about a console port in the battery
compartment. But that's all.

Is there an easy way to connect a wall wart? Todd says it uses up to
80/90 mA when doing something, but pulster.de says one set of batteries
will last a year. That doesn't add up.

Rick

[Paul Rubin]

rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> writes:
> Interesting. I found the info about updating the wiki info so it can
> be kept relatively up to date, at least for now. If they are closing
> them out they might not continue to provide updates. I wonder if they
> are replacing it with a new model?

I think they have pretty much given up, but I may be wrong.

It looks to me like you can deal with updates yourself. Wikipedia text
is distributed as compressed xml files (dumps.wikimedia.org) and you
would download the current dump and install it on the reader.

[paulh...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 4:09:47 AM UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> writes: > Interesting. I found the info about updating the wiki info so it can > be kept relatively up to date, at least for now. If they are closing > them out they might not continue to provide updates. I wonder if they > are replacing it with a new model? I think they have pretty much given up, but I may be wrong. It looks to me like you can deal with updates yourself. Wikipedia text is distributed as compressed xml files (dumps.wikimedia.org) and you would download the current dump and install it on the reader.

Had a look at the one I just bought from Amazon and wondered where the lead would connect. Found out that the Debug connections are under a sticky tab in the side of the battery compartment. With the device upside down and battery compartment to the top and battery cover removed, the sticky cover is right of centre near you. Removing the sticky plate will reveal a hole of 8mm by 4mm that is approximately 11mm to 12mm deep. The connections are 8 flat gold pads at the bottom. I shall be looking for a suitable connector for this (even if I have to make one).

Paul E. Bennett
(via Google Groups)

[Mark Wills]

I've heard of people mounting a female stereo 3.5mm jack and using a
stereo 3.5mm male jack on the serial cable, giving you RX, TX and GND.
I'll see if I can dig some links up...

Here you go:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?136770-OpenMoko-WikiReader-Now-With-Programming

The first post has pictures. Click 'em to see them full size.

Mark

[Mark Wills]

This guy has turned it into a data logger, in Forth, of course!

http://toddbot.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/wikireader-data-logger.html

[Mark Wills]

On Oct 12, 11:57 am, paulhid...@gmail.com wrote:

More piccies of the same sort of serial port hack:

http://toddbot.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/wikireader-serial-port-hack-pictures.html

[Paul E. Bennett]

I was aiming to bring out all eight connections via a thin cable into a
small box which will allow interfacing to a decent comms port. I'll make
details available as and when. I shall also include the reset button and
programme switch as part of the box. May even make the device sit on the box
and eliminate the need for the thin cable (idea still evolving).

I think the device could end up being a useful small terminal for other
programmable projects.

--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E....@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

[rickman]

Yeah, but the pics don't really show where to connect the wires. Here
is a page that lists some details on the pin out.

https://github.com/wikireader/wikireader/wiki/Hardware-Specifications

I haven't had a chance to view your link at parallax.com

I should have some 2mm surface mount connectors, but they may need some
trimming to fit the pads. I can send you a couple if you want. I won't
have my wikireaders until next week. I ordered two.

My main concern is how fast a Forth can run the serial port.

Rick

[rickman]

On 10/13/2012 12:37 AM, rickman wrote:
>
> My main concern is how fast a Forth can run the serial port.
>
> Rick

Has anyone gotten their units yet and used the serial port? I won't
have mine until next week.

I am looking to buy a USB to TTL adapter from eBay and it seems to be
hard to find one with much info on the pins. Most units use a PL2303
chip. Anyone know if that will interface ok to the Wikireader? Are the
Wikireader pins 3.3 volts?

Rick

[Paul E. Bennett]

Mine arrived last Thursday and I already have a schematic being sketched up
to provide a reasonable driver for the Debug port, along with a couple of
switches (prog and reset).I have contacted a firm who do spring loaded pins
and I am going to build a location block that I will mount on the PCB of the
jig on which the driver circuit is located. Yes, all the Wikireader pins are
3.3V (apart from the Bat+ and Bat-)

[rickman]

On 10/17/2012 1:36 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/2012 12:37 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>
>>> My main concern is how fast a Forth can run the serial port.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>
>> Has anyone gotten their units yet and used the serial port? I won't
>> have mine until next week.
>>
>> I am looking to buy a USB to TTL adapter from eBay and it seems to be
>> hard to find one with much info on the pins. Most units use a PL2303
>> chip. Anyone know if that will interface ok to the Wikireader? Are the
>> Wikireader pins 3.3 volts?
>>
>> Rick
>
> Mine arrived last Thursday and I already have a schematic being sketched up
> to provide a reasonable driver for the Debug port, along with a couple of
> switches (prog and reset).I have contacted a firm who do spring loaded pins
> and I am going to build a location block that I will mount on the PCB of the
> jig on which the driver circuit is located. Yes, all the Wikireader pins are
> 3.3V (apart from the Bat+ and Bat-)

I understand the processor is an Epson device. What debugger is used
with it? Or is this just to reprogram the flash? I have the impression
that there is not much need to program the serial flash since nearly all
the data and much code are on the SD card.

How are you going to use the debug port? How are you going to use the
WikiReader?

The spring loaded contact pads are typically used in manufacturing where
you want to save the cost of the connector. Is the spring loaded cable
expensive? Why not solder a standard connector?

Rick

[Paul E. Bennett]

rickman wrote:

> On 10/17/2012 1:36 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
>> rickman wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/13/2012 12:37 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My main concern is how fast a Forth can run the serial port.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>
>>> Has anyone gotten their units yet and used the serial port? I won't
>>> have mine until next week.
>>>
>>> I am looking to buy a USB to TTL adapter from eBay and it seems to be
>>> hard to find one with much info on the pins. Most units use a PL2303
>>> chip. Anyone know if that will interface ok to the Wikireader? Are the
>>> Wikireader pins 3.3 volts?
>>>
>>> Rick
>>
>> Mine arrived last Thursday and I already have a schematic being sketched
>> up to provide a reasonable driver for the Debug port, along with a couple
>> of switches (prog and reset).I have contacted a firm who do spring loaded
>> pins and I am going to build a location block that I will mount on the
>> PCB of the jig on which the driver circuit is located. Yes, all the
>> Wikireader pins are 3.3V (apart from the Bat+ and Bat-)
>
> I understand the processor is an Epson device. What debugger is used
> with it? Or is this just to reprogram the flash? I have the impression
> that there is not much need to program the serial flash since nearly all
> the data and much code are on the SD card.

Most of the data is on the SD card from what I have gleaned so far. The SD
card seems to be quite well buried inside the device and thus you need to
take it apart to get at it. Access to the debug port (from under the battery
compartment lid) should give an easier in. I also have other plans for the
Wikireader as a potential small terminal for other systems.

> How are you going to use the debug port? How are you going to use the
> WikiReader?

As a Wikireader (updated as required) and as a small terminal for embedded
systems testing and debug.

> The spring loaded contact pads are typically used in manufacturing where
> you want to save the cost of the connector. Is the spring loaded cable
> expensive? Why not solder a standard connector?

The company I have been in touch with do them for bed-of-nails test jigs. I
have a price from them and am organising the making of teh support block at
the moment. I shall probably be adding the LTC1387 to get a decent RS232
signal for the onward comms connections. The RESET and PROG pins will also
be connected to a switch and pushbutton as appropriate.

I am aiming at a worthwhile and useful tool out of this.

[Hannu Vuolasaho]

On 2012-10-18, Paul E. Bennett <Paul_E....@topmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Most of the data is on the SD card from what I have gleaned so far. The SD
> card seems to be quite well buried inside the device and thus you need to
> take it apart to get at it.

I got mine today. Bad batteries and o boot. Now I have new batteries
and bigger card and downloading newest wikis.

The card comes out nicely when you first push it in and let the spring
throw it out for you.

--
Hannu Vuolasaho

[Paul E. Bennett]

My Wikireader does not seem to have a visible access to the SD card slot. I
haven't yet had the bottom cover off. Where is your SD card located?

[rickman]

That is exactly how I plan to use it. But there must be some access to
the card. I thought you only had to remove the batteries to reach it?
Otherwise how could they sell you Wikipedia updates by SD card?

>> How are you going to use the debug port? How are you going to use the
>> WikiReader?
>
> As a Wikireader (updated as required) and as a small terminal for embedded
> systems testing and debug.
>
>> The spring loaded contact pads are typically used in manufacturing where
>> you want to save the cost of the connector. Is the spring loaded cable
>> expensive? Why not solder a standard connector?
>
> The company I have been in touch with do them for bed-of-nails test jigs. I
> have a price from them and am organising the making of teh support block at
> the moment. I shall probably be adding the LTC1387 to get a decent RS232
> signal for the onward comms connections. The RESET and PROG pins will also
> be connected to a switch and pushbutton as appropriate.
>
> I am aiming at a worthwhile and useful tool out of this.
>

Ok. I will likely wire directly or through a jack as others have done.
Some of my tasks don't need the level converter and can talk TTL
levels. In fact, I had trouble with a USB converter once because the
converter chip had a very slow slew rate on one edge which distorted the
edge timing for fast data rates. I don't see that with TTL and my cable
is rather short.

Still, I'd like to see what you end up with. I guess there is some
advantage to not having to open the case, but are you sure you can
update the SD card via the RS-232 port?

Rick

Rick

[Paul E. Bennett]

rickman wrote:

> Still, I'd like to see what you end up with. I guess there is some
> advantage to not having to open the case, but are you sure you can
> update the SD card via the RS-232 port?

I'll put details up somewhere when I get some of it more together. I'll
probably make some arrangements for the TTL levels as well but I will need
the RS232 at near proper levels for quite a lot of my systems. At least then
I could add standard converters for RS485 if I need that aspect.

As for updating the SD card, I would hope a little coding could provide an
easy way to do that across the serial interface. From what I can see of
mine, the access to the SD card does not seem to be anywhere around the
outside of the casing. The only holes under the battery cover that I could
see are where the cover latch locates and the debug port (under a sticky
patch). Might end up having to take the bottom plate off to have a look but
the notes suggest that this is not as easy as it may seem because of the
case construction tending to keep the halves firmly together.

[Mark Wills]

On Oct 18, 9:38 pm, "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>
wrote:

> rickman wrote:
> > Still, I'd like to see what you end up with.  I guess there is some
> > advantage to not having to open the case, but are you sure you can
> > update the SD card via the RS-232 port?
>
> I'll put details up somewhere when I get some of it more together. I'll
> probably make some arrangements for the TTL levels as well but I will need
> the RS232 at near proper levels for quite a lot of my systems. At least then
> I could add standard converters for RS485 if I need that aspect.
>
> As for updating the SD card, I would hope a little coding could provide an
> easy way to do that across the serial interface. From what I can see of
> mine, the access to the SD card does not seem to be anywhere around the
> outside of the casing. The only holes under the battery cover that I could
> see are where the cover latch locates and the debug port (under a sticky
> patch). Might end up having to take the bottom plate off to have a look but
> the notes suggest that this is not as easy as it may seem because of the
> case construction tending to keep the halves firmly together.
>
> --
> ********************************************************************

> Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>

> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
> Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
> Going Forth Safely ..... EBA.www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
> ********************************************************************

Place the unit on the table, screen facing down.
Remove battery cover and remove batteries
Run your finger around the top of the battery compartment opening.
You should feel the edge of the SD card under your finger.

Mark

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 4:48:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> On Oct 18, 9:38 pm, "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk> wrote: > rickman wrote: > > Still, I'd like to see what you end up with.  I guess there is some > > advantage to not having to open the case, but are you sure you can > > update the SD card via the RS-232 port? > > I'll put details up somewhere when I get some of it more together. I'll > probably make some arrangements for the TTL levels as well but I will need > the RS232 at near proper levels for quite a lot of my systems. At least then > I could add standard converters for RS485 if I need that aspect. > > As for updating the SD card, I would hope a little coding could provide an > easy way to do that across the serial interface. From what I can see of > mine, the access to the SD card does not seem to be anywhere around the > outside of the casing. The only holes under the battery cover that I could > see are where the cover latch locates and the debug port (under a sticky > patch). Might end up having to take the bottom plate off to have a look but > the notes suggest that this is not as easy as it may seem because of the > case construction tending to keep the halves firmly together. > > -- > ******************************************************************** > Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk> > Forth based HIDECS Consultancy > Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 > Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 > Going Forth Safely ..... EBA.www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. > ******************************************************************** Place the unit on the table, screen facing down. Remove battery cover and remove batteries Run your finger around the top of the battery compartment opening. You should feel the edge of the SD card under your finger. Mark

Surprise, surprise!
Information about the WikiReader is available at Wikipedia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikireader - including price, distributor, and links like http://thewikireader.com/#how-do-i-update-wikireaders-memory-card with pictures about updating the WikiReader’s memory card.

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

On Thursday, October 18, 2012 7:37:34 PM UTC-4, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 18, 2012 4:48:11 PM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote: > On Oct 18, 9:38 pm, "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk> wrote: > rickman wrote: > > Still, I'd like to see what you end up with.  I guess there is some > > advantage to not having to open the case, but are you sure you can > > update the SD card via the RS-232 port? > > I'll put details up somewhere when I get some of it more together. I'll > probably make some arrangements for the TTL levels as well but I will need > the RS232 at near proper levels for quite a lot of my systems. At least then > I could add standard converters for RS485 if I need that aspect. > > As for updating the SD card, I would hope a little coding could provide an > easy way to do that across the serial interface. From what I can see of > mine, the access to the SD card does not seem to be anywhere around the > outside of the casing. The only holes under the battery cover that I could > see are where the cover latch locates and the debug port (under a sticky > patch). Might end up having to take the bottom plate off to have a look but > the notes suggest that this is not as easy as it may seem because of the > case construction tending to keep the halves firmly together. > > -- > ******************************************************************** > Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk> > Forth based HIDECS Consultancy > Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 > Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 > Going Forth Safely ..... EBA.www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. > ******************************************************************** Place the unit on the table, screen facing down. Remove battery cover and remove batteries Run your finger around the top of the battery compartment opening. You should feel the edge of the SD card under your finger. Mark Surprise, surprise! Information about the WikiReader is available at Wikipedia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikireader - including price, distributor, and links like http://thewikireader.com/#how-do-i-update-wikireaders-memory-card with pictures about updating the WikiReader’s memory card.

The serial Interface is set to 19200 8N1
Source: https://github.com/wikireader/wikireader/wiki/Hardware-Specifications
Contains the debug connector pinning - 8 pads under a seal in the battery compartment, too.

Choosing the right SD card seems to be important. Some SD cards don't work:
https://github.com/wikireader/wikireader/wiki/Sd-cards

[rickman]

Yes, they give you the pin out of the pads which you can solder a
connector to, but they don't show the pads in the context of the unit so
you don't know the orientation. Given that two pins are labeled Bat+
and Bat- you might be able to ohm them to the battery terminals to get
it right the first time.

Rick

[Hannu Vuolasaho]

On 2012-10-18, Paul E. Bennett <Paul_E....@topmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Hannu Vuolasaho wrote:
>
>> On 2012-10-18, Paul E. Bennett <Paul_E....@topmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Most of the data is on the SD card from what I have gleaned so far. The
>>> SD card seems to be quite well buried inside the device and thus you need
>>> to take it apart to get at it.
>>
>> I got mine today. Bad batteries and o boot. Now I have new batteries
>> and bigger card and downloading newest wikis.
>>
>> The card comes out nicely when you first push it in and let the spring
>> throw it out for you.
>
> My Wikireader does not seem to have a visible access to the SD card slot. I
> haven't yet had the bottom cover off. Where is your SD card located?
>

In battery compartment. First inserted and then spring ejected.
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~vuolasah/IMGP2926.JPG
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~vuolasah/IMGP2927.JPG

--
Hannu Vuolasaho

[Paul E. Bennett]

rickman wrote:

Thanks for the hint on the SD card location. In a recess I took to be just
the view of the battery holder on the PCB. Don't recall a mention in the
manual that came with it but then I just skimmed that quickly.

> Yes, they give you the pin out of the pads which you can solder a
> connector to, but they don't show the pads in the context of the unit so
> you don't know the orientation. Given that two pins are labeled Bat+
> and Bat- you might be able to ohm them to the battery terminals to get
> it right the first time.

There are some photos of the PCB which show the silk screen. So I think I
have it from that. I will do a meter check before I lay out the connections
though.

--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E....@topmail.co.uk>

[rickman]

On 10/19/2012 2:28 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
> Thanks for the hint on the SD card location. In a recess I took to be just
> the view of the battery holder on the PCB. Don't recall a mention in the
> manual that came with it but then I just skimmed that quickly.
>
>> Yes, they give you the pin out of the pads which you can solder a
>> connector to, but they don't show the pads in the context of the unit so
>> you don't know the orientation. Given that two pins are labeled Bat+
>> and Bat- you might be able to ohm them to the battery terminals to get
>> it right the first time.
>
> There are some photos of the PCB which show the silk screen. So I think I
> have it from that. I will do a meter check before I lay out the connections
> though.

I thought I remembered seeing some detailed photos of the PCB, but I
can't find them now. Where did you find them? We need to start
accumulating this information someplace central perhaps.

Rick

[Paul E. Bennett]

rickman wrote:

> On 10/19/2012 2:28 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:

[%X]

>> There are some photos of the PCB which show the silk screen. So I think I
>> have it from that. I will do a meter check before I lay out the
>> connections though.
>
> I thought I remembered seeing some detailed photos of the PCB, but I
> can't find them now. Where did you find them? We need to start
> accumulating this information someplace central perhaps.

Here:-

<http://wiki.seabright.co.nz/wiki/WikiReader.html>

[rickman]

On 10/19/2012 6:24 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
>> On 10/19/2012 2:28 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
>
> [%X]
>
>>> There are some photos of the PCB which show the silk screen. So I think I
>>> have it from that. I will do a meter check before I lay out the
>>> connections though.
>>
>> I thought I remembered seeing some detailed photos of the PCB, but I
>> can't find them now. Where did you find them? We need to start
>> accumulating this information someplace central perhaps.
>
> Here:-
>
> <http://wiki.seabright.co.nz/wiki/WikiReader.html>

Interesting. The pads look like they are nail head type things rather
than just PCB copper. Is that right? I wouldn't expect PCB copper to
be left exposed.

Rick

[rickman]

On 10/19/2012 6:24 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
>> On 10/19/2012 2:28 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
>
> [%X]
>
>>> There are some photos of the PCB which show the silk screen. So I think I
>>> have it from that. I will do a meter check before I lay out the
>>> connections though.
>>
>> I thought I remembered seeing some detailed photos of the PCB, but I
>> can't find them now. Where did you find them? We need to start
>> accumulating this information someplace central perhaps.
>
> Here:-
>
> <http://wiki.seabright.co.nz/wiki/WikiReader.html>
>
>

Thanks. The image for the base clips doesn't link to the correct larger
file. The file is there, the link is wrong. I see you add links to all
the photos at the end, so no real problem.

Rick

[Paul E. Bennett]

rickman wrote:

> On 10/19/2012 6:24 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:

[%X]

>> Here:-
>>
>> <http://wiki.seabright.co.nz/wiki/WikiReader.html>
>
> Thanks. The image for the base clips doesn't link to the correct larger
> file. The file is there, the link is wrong. I see you add links to all
> the photos at the end, so no real problem.

The link is to a site that is not mine. The pads are gold flashed. The
spring loaded contacts that I have found have a 1mm diameter gold plated
multi-faceted head which will make a decent contact with such pads.

[Mark Wills]

On Oct 20, 9:49 am, "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>
wrote:

> rickman wrote:
> > On 10/19/2012 6:24 PM, Paul E. Bennett wrote:
>
> [%X]
>
> >> Here:-
>
> >> <http://wiki.seabright.co.nz/wiki/WikiReader.html>
>
> > Thanks.  The image for the base clips doesn't link to the correct larger
> > file.  The file is there, the link is wrong.  I see you add links to all
> > the photos at the end, so no real problem.
>
> The link is to a site that is not mine. The pads are gold flashed. The
> spring loaded contacts that I have found have a 1mm diameter gold plated
> multi-faceted head which will make a decent contact with such pads.
>
> --
> ********************************************************************

> Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>

> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
> Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
> Going Forth Safely ..... EBA.www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
> ********************************************************************

The whole machine is a little gem, isn't it?!

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 5:59:23 AM UTC-4, M.R.W Wills wrote:
> The whole machine is a little gem, isn't it?!

Yes, it is.

I did some research and I found a lot of interesting links, including this special one:

Go Forth and WikiReadit
4 December 2009, by Ben

He wrote:
There’s something about a product that does one simple thing well. But what really sets the WikiReader apart is that it lasts a year on 2 AAA batteries with no charging. How? The low-power LCD screen, and the tiny microprocessor.

But what’s even cooler, at least for someone who learned to program by dabbling in Forth, is that the device has a built-in Forth interpreter for testing the hardware and running small programs.

I was pleasantly surprised – I know that Forth is good for embedded work on tiny micros, but since the main WikiReader app is written in C, I was curious why they chose Forth for testing and apps. So I asked Christopher Hall, one of the main firmware developers. His reply was very informative, and he’s kindly allowed me to copy it here:

I have written testing programs in several languages, but compiled programs always have the problem of the edit, cross compile, load, and try to debug. Sometimes the platform can run BSD or Linux, and then you can have the full suite of tools on the platform. This is okay if the person doing the initial testing can write programs, but often the test is how to toggle a particular I/O line on/off and see the effect on the rest of the circuit. Then having some kind of scripting on the platform seems the best way to achieve this.
For the initial testing, just start the interpreter REPL and you can start the initial tests. Initially I looked at TCL and Python which I have used before, but they would take far too long to port since they need a lot of Posix system calls which do not exist for this platform.
I also considered Hedgehog, Pico Lisp or perhaps some simple Scheme interpreter but the syntax would probably be too difficult for the hardware engineers to use. Forth is pretty simple syntax and RPN was probably not too difficult for them to learn. Also it was easy to build the Forth interpreter, incrementally adding features until it is now an almost ANSI standard Forth.
Since I added all the device registers the hardware engineers can use commands like the following (I used the same register names as the datasheet):
P0_P0D p? \ display value of port
1 P0_P0D p! \ set port to 1While waiting for the main application development I could build tests for items like the LCD and CTP with just a serial connection on the device itself – using cut/paste from Emacs to picocom to upload Forth words. This is much quicker than cross-compiling and swapping SD cards.
The Forth is rather slow in compiling, the dictionary search is quite slow for example, and the indirect threading adds run-time overhead so in its present form it is probably not fast enough for the main reader application, but for quick applications to try things out I find it very convenient.
Also, the first version was hand translated from a version of EForth for Linux before I migrated it to the ANSI standard. (I kept copies in samo-lib/forth/EForthOriginals subdirectory.)

Very neat. If Lisp is the secret weapon for developing web apps, maybe Forth is it for embedded apps. Both are extensible at the language level and both have real macros, but Lisp is high level and Forth is low level.

Carsten commented: "You can write and test a program using a Forth System on your PC (Linux or other OS), then you copy the source on the Micro-SD card in the Wikireader, and start executing. For debugging, you probably want to solder a serial terminal to the wikireader so that you can interactively develop and debug on thw wikireader itself (and not do cross-development, see http://wiki.github.com/wikireader/wikireader/hardware-specifications under “debug-connector”)."

Source: http://blog.brush.co.nz/2009/12/wikireader/


And guess what? It is easy to access Forth programs inside the WikiReader:

The software platform also comes with a FORTH interpreter that can run several small programs that are stored on the SD card. To access these programs, you hold the "random" button down while you turn on the device. It will display a menu of the FORTH programs and allow you to run one of them by tapping it on the touchscreen. The apps that are shipped on the SD card include a simple drawing program and a calculator. There are also a few diagnostic utilities for performing various kinds of tests.

Source: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/11/hands-on-openmoko-wikireader-is-simple-appealing/

Here for your convenience some other links which I found, but not sorted:

https://github.com/wikireader/wikireader/tree/master/samo-lib/forth/
http://www.mentby.com/christopher-hall/
https://github.com/wikireader/wikireader/wiki/Building-an-image
http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-forth/606844-wikireader.html
http://gitorious.org/wikireader-ness/wikireader-ness?page=6
http://gitorious.org/wikireader-ness/wikireader-ness/commits/master?page=7
http://elm-chan.org/fsw/ff/00index_e.html

And last, but not least:

How did you learn to program?
5 June 2007, by Ben

He wrote:
I learnt to program for fun at home, and my theory is that this is the best way to learn. I started in seriously when I was about 14 (I couldn’t quite grasp the concepts before then), and began by learning 80x86 assembly language and Forth. I tried to learn C, but for some reason I grokked assembly more quickly. Plus, assembly made it easy to play with the VGA hardware and write cool graphics demos. The joy of the art was setting in.

Mostly my dad taught me, though I also learnt a lot from reading FidoNet groups and from Demoscene coders. After playing with graphics stuff and coding the first 50 lines of about five different games that were going to “change the face of computer gaming”, my first serious project was to write a Forth compiler. I bootstrapped it by writing the core in assembly, then the rest in Forth.

Speaking of which, I really rate learning Forth. It’s probably the earliest language apart from Lisp which is extensible at the language level and has real macros. But it’s much simpler than Lisp.

The only problem is that it’s so easy to write your own Forth compiler that everyone does that instead of writing good libraries or language extensions.

Source: http://blog.brush.co.nz/2007/06/how-did-you-learn-to-program/

[Ian Osgood]

On Saturday, October 6, 2012 12:02:38 PM UTC-7, M.R.W Wills wrote:
> The price of the handheld WikiReader on Amazon has tumbled from the
>
> 100's of dollars to $14 (in the USA).
>
>
>
> In the UK, it's £20:
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pandigital-Handheld-Electronic-Encyclopedia-Wikipedia/dp/B0039NLVB2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349549948&sr=8-4
>
>
>
> Looks like they're selling the stock out and then that'll be it. If
>
> anyone is interested in getting one, now might be a good time.
>
>
>
> Note: These machines run Forth. You can place ANS Forth text files on
>
> the SD card and it will happily compile and run them. It comes with a
>
> number of Forth words to allow GUI interaction, SD card access etc.
>
>
>
> Also, if you hook it up to a serial port and a terminal emulator you
>
> get a Forth prompt and you're off.
>
>
>
> I just bought mine! At that price, I couldn't resist it!

I'm on the fence with this one.

To be honest, what is the advantage of this kit over an old Palm device with Quartus Forth? Get a Treo and you even get a reasonable keyboard.

Ian

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:21:31 PM UTC-4, Ian Osgood wrote:
> I'm on the fence with this one. To be honest, what is the advantage of this
> kit over an old Palm device with Quartus Forth? Get a Treo and you even get a
> reasonable keyboard.
> Ian

You are right.
You get a reasonable keyboard, GPS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, USB and voice command.
The Palm Treo starts at $68.95
That's intriguing.

May be you should open a discussion for comparison, or better: what would be the best low cost handheld Forth device?