Mac Os X forth

[NN]

Hello,

I wondered if anyone can recommend a good free forth to use on a macbook air. Googling seems to bring up swiftforth, vfx forth and powermops. I am new to
mac os so I would like something that doesnt bypass the apps-store at least
until I know what I am doing.

NN

[Ron Aaron]

The free version of 8th works on macOS, if you're willing to use a
non-ANS Forth-derivative.

[NN]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the quick response. Love the website. Will give it a try for sure.

NN

[Joel Rees]

Last time I checked, gforth was available for Macintosh, both Intel and PPC.

[gavino himself]

dont use apple

[Joel Rees]

Don't use anything you can buy on th market today.

(shrug)

--
Joel Rees

Reinventing the entire industry all by myself:
http://defining-computers.blogspot.jp/

[Albert van der Horst]

In article <68b05722-b12e-4e08...@googlegroups.com>,

NN <novembe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I wondered if anyone can recommend a good free forth to use on a macbook air.

Limit char's to 72. Define "good". I know a lot of apple users
who think xina for the apple is no good because it is a console
application.
Anyway you may try https://forth.hcc.nl/w/Producten/Ciforth
(Note that this url is casesensitive. Damned yoomla)
Read the tutorial, download xina.

[There have been reports that the -c option to compile standalone programs
may not work on the newest versions of the Max OS. ]

> Googling seems to bring up swiftforth, vfx forth and powermops. I am new to
>mac os so I would like something that doesnt bypass the apps-store at least
>until I know what I am doing.

You didn't find gforth? It is there for the apple.
swiftforth and vfx forth have tryout version that are free as in "free
beer". Even if you've a paid version you're not allowed to
change the source and redistribute.

xina and gforth are free as in "freedom".
You didn't find them in the apps-store, I see.

Anyway.
You can unpack and try out xina in /tmp. No installing, just unpacking.
Next time you boot it'll be gone.

>
>NN

Groetjes Albert
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[NN]

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 13:03:32 UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <68b05722-b12e-4e08...@googlegroups.com>,

By "good" I meant a forth that has features you would reasonably expect.

I ran the google search again and Gforth does appear. I can only
guess it was due to my location being outside the country.

I am guessing from the general lack of replies to my original post that forth
may not be the best choice of a programming language on the mac.

[Albert van der Horst]

In article <cf864a6b-7999-4f5a...@googlegroups.com>,

NN <novembe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>By "good" I meant a forth that has features you would reasonably expect.

I'm pretty sure that you don't mean the features I would
reasonably expect.
You probably want to say: " the features I would reasonably expect".

What are those? It is impossible to guess. There are of course
requirements like somewhat standard ISO, somewhat documented,
somewhat bugfree.
What else? Some people has been here who find it reasonable
to play all examples from "Starting Forth" (from 1980 some.)
Some people want a graphical IDE. Experienced Forthers don't
expect that from a Forth.

I can tell you that experienced Forthers will not expect
more than gforth can deliver.

[NN]

Gforth would have sufficed as I have used it on Windows
before.

I tried Swiftforth, gforth, factor and xina.

However I stopped at the point where the os informed me
that the current security preferences did not allow for
the executable to run as it wasn’t from the app store or
an identified developer. I am reluctant to side step this
for the moment.

Maybe once I am more familiar with the OS, I will revisit
and see.

[Albert van der Horst]

In article <3f22775b-43d0-4f3c...@googlegroups.com>,

NN <novembe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Gforth would have sufficed as I have used it on Windows

>before.=20
>
>I tried Swiftforth, gforth, factor and xina.=20
>
>However I stopped at the point where the os informed me=20
>that the current security preferences did not allow for=20
>the executable to run as it wasn=E2=80=99t from the app store or=20

>an identified developer. I am reluctant to side step this
>for the moment.

There is no security better than open source.

I hope you trust yourself as an identified developer.
Read through the xina source (one file) and see that there are no
trapdoors. An assembler file is very naked with no place for
concealed weapons.
Then use the two line instructions in the source to build it.

; nasm -f macho xina.asm -o xina.o
; ld xina.o -segprot __TEXT rwx rwx -segprot __DATA rwx rwx -o xina

A similar process can be done with gforth, but it takes more effort.

>
>Maybe once I am more familiar with the OS, I will revisit
>and see.

It would be a pity if security prevents you from having fun with Forth.

[Julian Fondren]

It just sounds like he just wants to do things 'the macOS way', to
follow along the broad path Apple have beaten for their users -- at
least for a while, at least to understand what would forgo. I can
understand that. Apple is presented as the 'high class' option, so
you'd want to try and get the promised experience, rather than be like
a guy who stays at a five-star inn but then sleeps on the floor of his
room in a sleeping bag because that's what he's used to.

But searching the app store, the only *programming language* I found
after a few minutes was Haskell, in a $25 package of other software.
Usually what's offered is the 'other software' - editors, or flash
cards, or training tools, or such nonsense. So I'm not sure it says
much about Forth usage on this environment, that Forth isn't there.

For my part I only use OSX because the alternative business laptop
would've had Windows, and I just use it as a window to more serious
environments. When I locally edit software in Emacs, even the linting
happens on a remote server. I have a couple of Forths installed but
only use them for quick tests, so I can't vouch for them as good for
OSX development. I use the sleeping bag because I've stayed here
before and the five-star rating is a lie.

[Bernd Paysan]

Am Mon, 26 Jun 2017 08:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
schrieb Julian Fondren <julian....@gmail.com>:

> It just sounds like he just wants to do things 'the macOS way', to
> follow along the broad path Apple have beaten for their users -- at
> least for a while, at least to understand what would forgo. I can
> understand that.

Anyone who wants to use free software on Mac OS X should use
Homebrew instead, the App Store is a joke (for free software).

https://brew.sh/

Gforth is available as brew tap, and I let Travis continuous
integration check that the development version builds with brew.

Developers have to pay a yearly fee to participate in the App Store,
and the only way to get me there is if you pay as user. net2o
will likely go to the app store, but Gforth, no way.

--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

[jimno...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 1:33:35 PM UTC-4, NN wrote:

There is also Diaperglu from http://www.rainbarrel.com, but it also is not on the apps store.

[jimno...@gmail.com]

> Developers have to pay a yearly fee to participate in the App Store,
> and the only way to get me there is if you pay as user. net2o
> will likely go to the app store, but Gforth, no way.

I think the Apple Developer fee is $100/year. If you build from source code, does OS X still give the warning?

[Bernd Paysan]

Am Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
schrieb jimno...@gmail.com:

> I think the Apple Developer fee is $100/year.

Yes, that's what I remember, too. Gforth is a GNU project, and even
if I pay that fee, it's not going to go into that store for political
reasons.

> If you build from
> source code, does OS X still give the warning?

I don't see such a warning. I think it's only for internet-downloaded
stuff.

[Albert van der Horst]

In article <8e86a532-407b-4740...@googlegroups.com>,

I build an tested xina on my brothers Apple and no, OS X doesn't give a
warning that running your freshly built program is dangerous.
(It was exactly like working on Linux. All the tools are there too,
like make, m4 and nasm.)

Under MS windows it is possible that the virus protection has
deleted your program before you can run it.

[Ron Aaron]

On 06/27/17 03:13, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Am Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> schrieb jimno...@gmail.com:
>> I think the Apple Developer fee is $100/year.
>
> Yes, that's what I remember, too. Gforth is a GNU project, and even
> if I pay that fee, it's not going to go into that store for political
> reasons.
>
>> If you build from
>> source code, does OS X still give the warning?
>
> I don't see such a warning. I think it's only for internet-downloaded
> stuff.

That's right. I constantly run programs I built myself, without
signing, on macOS.

[Paul Rubin]

What about "brew install gforth"?

[Joel Rees]

I should have been more clear about not downloading binaries from
random sites.

The discussion should make it clear now. If you don't feel confident
about collecting the various source code you need, use brew.

(Especially since Bernd says he's got a friend watching over the
brew packaging.)

But building all the dependencies from source is not hard, just a
bit tedious, and, as everyone says, the result is something you
don't have to give an excuse to the OS about.

(Now, building from source on openbsd is a bit troublesome. If I had
the time, I'd try it again, but I think it runs afoul of the write-or-
executable, but not both protections.)

[cptn...@gmail.com]

I think the message you are referring to is saying the developer did not sign up with Apple in which case flags the software as unknown to it. Check the internet for reviews of the software and developer than download and use it if/when you feel comfortable. Holding down the cntrl key while opening brings you to a window that will open it.

[hughag...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 5:03:28 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> I can tell you that experienced Forthers will not expect
> more than gforth can deliver.

Way back in 2009 I wrote an early-binding MACRO: that I thought was good ANS-Forth, but it failed on GFORTH because ticking ; is illegal in GFORTH:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/wP5nw1ClzsM%5B1-25%5D
I was an experienced Forther and I expected to be able to tick semicolon, but this was more than GFORTH could deliver.

It was at this time that Anton Ertl invented the disambiguifiers to solve this problem. I came up with the name "disambiguifier" --- he invented them though.

So, if you want GFORTH to deliver the ability to tick semicolon, you need the disambiguifiers.

[NN]

On Tuesday, 27 June 2017 08:05:52 UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote:
> What about "brew install gforth"?

I thought I would update this thread just in case there are any
other macbook users considering the same question.

I finally took the jump and installed homebrew. ( It's a package
manager - open source)

I found and installed gforth.

Both turned out to be easier to install than I imagined. It might
be my familarity with linux helped.

I am by no means an expert and this is only step1 so far nothing
has broken. If you have questions feel free to ask, and if you
have any tips to share let me know.

NN