Best language for low IQ programmers?

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Brian Metc

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Nov 5, 2001, 2:54:36 PM11/5/01
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I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
for me.

My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual Basic or Eiffel.
My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I learn Ada because
it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.

She dis couraged me from using Eiffel because itr was a language going out of the
market, no longer used by any serious corporation, She said the same thing for Ada.

Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.

This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under Windows, Microsoft
stuff is always easier.

Would any one sugest the best language for me.

Brian

Daniel Torreblanca

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:10:36 PM11/5/01
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I don't see you getting into programming at all. If it's a "money
issue", don't except to make lots of money (or any for that matter). You get
a job and you get paid according to what your employer wants and needs, not
what you are capable of. As a programmer, it is almost necessary to know a
few different languages, or at least different applications of one language.
If you don't think you can do something like C or C++, stay out of the
field. Consider web design.

I don't think C or C++ are inherently "difficult". The thing is that
they are such powerful languages and their applications are so widespread
that it may seem overwhelming at first. But once you learn one language, the
transition to others is much less tedious.

--

Daniel

"I am so amazingly cool you could
keep a side of meat in me for a
month. I am so hip I have difficulty
seeing over my pelvis."


"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Gregory Toomey

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:22:32 PM11/5/01
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"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:10049900...@aol.com...
> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have
low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am
stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.

Any Microsoft language is suitable -VB in particular is perfect for managers
and stoopid people.

Here at comp.lang.perl.misc we deal with regular expression backtracking,
polymorphism, & closures as objects - too advanced for someone like you.

gtoomey


Marshall Spight

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:31:10 PM11/5/01
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"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message news:10049900...@aol.com...
>
> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.


Is this some kind of joke?


Marshall

Marc Bissonnette

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:29:04 PM11/5/01
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"Daniel Torreblanca" <torr...@unbc.ca> wrote in
news:341DCBB5A5FBD411900F...@xserv.unbc.ca:

> I don't see you getting into programming at all. If it's a "money
> issue", don't except to make lots of money (or any for that matter).
> You get a job and you get paid according to what your employer wants
> and needs, not what you are capable of. As a programmer, it is almost
> necessary to know a few different languages, or at least different
> applications of one language. If you don't think you can do something
> like C or C++, stay out of the field. Consider web design.
>
> I don't think C or C++ are inherently "difficult". The thing is
> that
> they are such powerful languages and their applications are so
> widespread that it may seem overwhelming at first. But once you learn
> one language, the transition to others is much less tedious.

Daniel's got the right gist of this.

You don't get into programming just because of the money. At best, if
that's all you're in it for, you'll be a mediocre programmer and that's
assuming you're a real bookworm to learn all the 'textbook' answers.

A ***really good*** programmer is into it because (s)he really enjoys it.
That's where the innovative solutions come from: Because someone enjoys the
language they code in so much that they are specifically *not* limited
solely to what the textbooks suggest are the answers.

Me, I chose Perl as my primary language after 'growing up' through basic,
Pascal, and Turbo Pascal. I chose Perl because it's all about manipulating
data (well, they're all about that, I mean text data, primarily) and
because it is a very logical language. The support for Perl is phenominal,
as well, esp. in NG's like comp.lang.perl.misc, as long as you're willing
to work for your answer (i.e. show the code you've tried to date and be
perfectly willing to wade through a FAQ or three if your question is mind-
numbingly common).

If you're just looking for money in a career, go and get yourself an MBA
and become a manager, somewhere :)

--
----------------------------

Marc Bissonnette
InternAlysis
Intelligence in Internet Communications
http://www.internalysis.com

ar...@hpcvplnx.cv.hp.com

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:38:13 PM11/5/01
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In comp.lang.java.programmer Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.

This sounds a *lot* like a troll to me. The proper use of "amongst" seems
to favor the troll theory, despite the amusing misspellings. But maybe
I'm being unfair.

Anyway, all computer languages are the same conceptually. One either
"gets" the concept of giving a machine a list of instructions to follow,
or one doesn't. So I'd recommend you try whichever language requires
the least investment and see if you "get it". Java is free. So are
many others. Pick any of them, and see if you "get it". You'll know.
I do have to admit that I've met few stupid programmers, but I have met
many intelligent folks who don't "get" programming. Nothing wrong with
it. I don't consider myself stupid, but I am unable to walk into a
room and figure out which person is most likely to buy something from
me. I've met folks in marketing to whom this is so obvious they have
a hard time explaining how. And they get paid more than me! ;-)

--arne

DISCLAIMER: These opinions and statements are those of the author and
do not represent any views or positions of the Hewlett-Packard Co.

a r i o . g r g i c @home.com Mario Grgic

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:56:22 PM11/5/01
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"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:10049900...@aol.com...

I say, wait till someone writes a cross platform compiler for English. Then
you'll have a chance.


Bruce Lewis

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:56:52 PM11/5/01
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Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) writes:

> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I
> have low IQ due to early childhool learning deprivation and TV
> overdose.

Sounds like programming is not for you. You should find other ways to
amuse yourself. For example, it might be fun to crosspost an incendiary
message to various programming language newsgroups, sit back, and watch
the mindless language war that ensues. In fact, that way you're likely
to encounter other low-IQ folks who are into programming.

Oh, wait. You've already done that. Never mind.


P.S. What's this "nyc.food" programming language? I've never heard of
it.

--
Bruce R. Lewis <brlewis@[(if (brl-related? message)
"users.sourceforge.net"
"alum.mit.edu")]> http://brl.sourceforge.net/

Tim Hammerquist

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Nov 5, 2001, 4:04:50 PM11/5/01
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Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> graced us by uttering:

> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I
> have low IQ due to early childhool learning deprivation and TV
> overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am pretty good amongst my
> friends, but not solving problems. You know what I mean. Anyways, I
> want to go into computor programing because of money issue. I now need
> to choose languege for programming, simple enough for me.

"learning deprivation"? You were deprived of learning?

> My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual
> Basic or Eiffel.
> My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I
> learn Ada because it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.

Heh. "Fool proof." Now _that's_ funny in any language.

[ snipped standard issue troll bait re. Ada & Eiffel ]

> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on
> hype.

A bold statement for any but a troll, no matter how much I might agree.

> This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under
> Windows, Microsoft stuff is always easier.

Nice. You'll go far. (Too bad it's just a troll.)

> Would any one sugest the best language for me.

i8088 assembly language is definitely the most efficient, easiest
language someone of your calibre intellect could learn.

Ya know, the spelling errors are fun to watch, but the fact that the
OP used "perl" instead of "PERL" means he can't be all that dumb.

Tim Hammerquist
--
Don't hit the keys so hard, it hurts.

Marin David Condic

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Nov 5, 2001, 3:50:54 PM11/5/01
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It looks an awful lot like a troll to me. "Gee - let's see if we can get
folks arguing about which is the stupidest programming language by posting
to several language groups..."

If not, I'd suggest the question should be rephrased to be less inciteful.
(Something more along the lines of "What are the advantages to learning
language X if my goal is Y..." might be less apt to start a language war.)
Otherwise, we're better off ignoring it.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail: marin....@pacemicro.com
Web: http://www.mcondic.com/


"Daniel Torreblanca" <torr...@unbc.ca> wrote in message
news:341DCBB5A5FBD411900F...@xserv.unbc.ca...

Alain D

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Nov 5, 2001, 4:31:54 PM11/5/01
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Brian, te me you sound like the Duc in "The big Lebowski" movie. In the
english version, he was called dude I think(I'm french speaking).

So what I mean is at first glance you look very stupid but, next, maybe, you
could be as clever as the person in this movie. (watch it if you did'nt yet
and you'll see what I mean).

You are very lazy so you want to use your brain to work as less as possible.
Am I right ?

Then Eiffel is the right tool for you. The more you use the power of it, the
less you work.

Unfortunately, it will take you a period of 3 or 4 years to handle the
object philosophy starting with the basis of programming (unless you have
160 of IQ).

Unfortunatelly, only few companies are working with Eiffel, so for the
money, maybe you rather making movies !

Alain


Jeff Connelly

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Nov 5, 2001, 4:36:48 PM11/5/01
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"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:10049900...@aol.com...

Wow what a troll.


Jeff Connelly

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Nov 5, 2001, 4:40:52 PM11/5/01
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<ar...@hpcvplnx.cv.hp.com> wrote in message
news:9s6tbl$ga2$1...@hpcvnews.cv.hp.com...

> In comp.lang.java.programmer Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
> > I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have
low IQ due to
> > early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am
stuped, I am
> > pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems.

> This sounds a *lot* like a troll to me. The proper use of "amongst" seems


> to favor the troll theory, despite the amusing misspellings. But maybe
> I'm being unfair.

I thought the spelling of "stuped" was rather unrefined - a bit heavy-handed,
wouldn't you say? "learning deprivation"? "TV overdose"?


Charles Krug

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Nov 5, 2001, 4:48:22 PM11/5/01
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:54:36 -0600, Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Would any one sugest the best language for me.
>
> Brian
>

I think Phoenitic Polynesian has the simplest spelling and syntax, though the
expressiveness of the language is belied by its simplicity.

Make sure you learn Standard. Don't get sucked into any particular vendor's
specialized version. The famous M version (Margaret Meade) had some
oversights in the earlier versions that have since been corrected.

Marin David Condic

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Nov 5, 2001, 4:53:41 PM11/5/01
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Actually, a *good* troll would have sucked hundreds of angry, incensed
replies out of the net by now and nobody would have seen it coming. A "good"
troll wouldn't look so obviously like a troll - or been so irresistable that
even as an obvious troll it would *still* inflame and incense the masses.

I am reminded of the chain-email begging for money for a boy who was just a
head with a burlap bag stuffed with leaves for a body. Except this one
doesn't even have humor working for it.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail: marin....@pacemicro.com
Web: http://www.mcondic.com/


"Jeff Connelly" <jcon...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:WCDF7.52445$Z2.7...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> Wow what a troll.
>
>


Richard Heathfield

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Nov 5, 2001, 6:09:21 PM11/5/01
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Brian Metc wrote:
>
<snip>

>
> Would any one sugest the best language for me.

APL.

--
Richard Heathfield : bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton

Patrick Doyle

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Nov 5, 2001, 6:37:03 PM11/5/01
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In article <10049900...@aol.com>, Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
>issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
>for me.

You may want to begin with the TROLL programming language:

http://www.intex.com/troll/program.html

Once you have mastered that, you could get a job with Trolltech
or Troll Touch Touchscreens:

http://www.trolltech.com/
http://www.trolltouch.com/

--
--
Patrick Doyle
doy...@eecg.toronto.edu

Thaddeus L Olczyk

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Nov 5, 2001, 7:17:33 PM11/5/01
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:37:03 GMT, doy...@eecg.toronto.edu (Patrick
Doyle) wrote:

>In article <10049900...@aol.com>, Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
>>issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
>>for me.
>
>You may want to begin with the TROLL programming language:
>
> http://www.intex.com/troll/program.html
>

Can't be a very good language there's no download page for me to get
the interpreter/compiler/whatever. There's also no emacs mode for it.

Thaddeus L Olczyk

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Nov 5, 2001, 7:20:31 PM11/5/01
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 23:09:21 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> wrote:

>Brian Metc wrote:
>>
><snip>
>>
>> Would any one sugest the best language for me.
>
>APL.

I was thinking of CL with meta object protocol.
In fact I think he should start with The Art of The
Metaobject Protocol.

Thaddeus L Olczyk

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Nov 5, 2001, 7:23:34 PM11/5/01
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:54:36 -0600, Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc)
wrote:

>My problem is that I have low IQ due to
>early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose.

Well considering the fact that you haven't posted to Usenet
before ( according to google ), your IQ can't be that badly fried.
While many of the jobs that require programming do require
a high IQ I've met many a programmer whose low IQ does not
deter them.
Good luck.

TheStonge

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Nov 5, 2001, 7:34:51 PM11/5/01
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Try Assembly Language :-D


Adrian Hoe

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Nov 5, 2001, 7:46:00 PM11/5/01
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Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) wrote in message news:<10049900...@aol.com>...


Brian,

No one is stupid in this world! It is only stupid if you think you
are. Learn Ada and you will never regret it. It is not difficult to
learn but only time that's matter.

I have many colleagues in my work place have not even got into
college. But their interest in computer and perseverence make them
software engineer today. They use Ada in their daily programming
chores.

Get a book teaching Ada for a start and you will find Ada is very
different from others.

Go ahead. You can make it!

Logan Shaw

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Nov 5, 2001, 8:13:27 PM11/5/01
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In article <9s6tbl$ga2$1...@hpcvnews.cv.hp.com>,

<ar...@hpcvplnx.cv.hp.com> wrote:
>Anyway, all computer languages are the same conceptually. One either
>"gets" the concept of giving a machine a list of instructions to follow,
>or one doesn't.

I don't know that I quite agree with that. Prolog isn't the same
conceptually as assembly language. Neither is a pure functional
programming language. Or maybe it is true if you think of Prolog
as having an implicit "tell me whether this is true" instruction
and pure functional languages as having an implicit "tell me the
value of this" instruction. But that's kind of a stretch.

Anyway, if the original poster is looking for a programming language
for stupid people, they should check out http://www.cobolscript.com/ .

- Logan
--
"In order to be prepared to hope in what does not deceive,
we must first lose hope in everything that deceives."

Georges Bernanos

Tim Hammerquist

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Nov 5, 2001, 9:05:22 PM11/5/01
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Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> graced us by uttering:
> Would any one sugest the best language for me.

If you want to learn a language that solves any problem that today's
world can throw at you, look at COBOL. There's not a language out there
that is as widely used as COBOL. Not only does it offer "classic"
programming experience to the user, but it offers more methods of
reinventing the wheel than any other programming language!

--
How dare the government intervene to stifle innovation in the computer
industry! That's Microsoft's job, dammit!

Thaddeus L Olczyk

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Nov 6, 2001, 2:11:26 AM11/6/01
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On 5 Nov 2001 16:46:00 -0800, by...@greenlime.com (Adrian Hoe) wrote:

>No one is stupid in this world!

Yeah there are. Those who take the original post seriously to name a
few.

Dan Hinojosa

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Nov 6, 2001, 3:11:27 AM11/6/01
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It's not the IQ, but the persistence that makes a programmer.

Kenny Chaffin

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Nov 6, 2001, 7:37:53 AM11/6/01
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In article <10049900...@aol.com>, Bria...@aol.com says...


IQ is inherent, like personality. It has nothing to do with
learning/deprivation/TV.

KAC
--
Kenny A. Chaffin
KAC Website Design - http://www.kacweb.com
Custom/Contract Programming, Graphics, Design
Poetry Page: http://www.kacweb.com/poems/

peter

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Nov 6, 2001, 7:49:01 AM11/6/01
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for you, i suggest logo for a few years then move onto basic :)

karsten v.

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Nov 6, 2001, 10:29:14 AM11/6/01
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Kenny Chaffin wrote:

> In article <10049900...@aol.com>, Bria...@aol.com says...
>
>>I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
>>early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
>>pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
>>mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
>>issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
>>for me.


why bother being a programmer ? you can apply as a manager ! :)

regards,

karsten

Doug

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Nov 6, 2001, 11:18:44 AM11/6/01
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In article <10049900...@aol.com>, Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
>I would like to get into the programing field. ...

Troll

Gary Labowitz

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Nov 6, 2001, 12:25:04 PM11/6/01
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"Doug" <do...@halcyon.com> wrote in message news:9s92h4$2c5$1...@halcyon.com...
Yes. And only best language is English.
Use it to write specs. Then hire someone to program them.
Gary


Tim Hammerquist

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Nov 6, 2001, 1:34:48 PM11/6/01
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Kenny Chaffin <ke...@kacweb.com> graced us by uttering:

> IQ is inherent, like personality. It has nothing to do with
> learning/deprivation/TV.

If the OP only knew what the people in this thread would _actually_
spend their time arguing about...

Tim Hammerquist
--
Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own.
-- Nelson Algren

Lou Moran

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Nov 6, 2001, 2:01:48 PM11/6/01
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:50:54 -0500, "Marin David Condic"
<dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote wonderful things
about sparkplugs:

SNIP


>
>If not, I'd suggest the question should be rephrased to be less inciteful.

SNIP
>
This line is priceless. It has 100 diff't ways to go. I applaude you
and your masterful use and wildly entertaining misspelling of
insightful. You are a lingusitic genius. You can't see me but I am
Golf Clapping right ... now.

:)

Disclaimer -- Any sarcasm real or imagined is not the intent of this
post.


--
TMTOWTDI: My way tends to be wrong...
lmo...@wtsg.com

James Khan

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Nov 6, 2001, 4:00:54 PM11/6/01
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Brian, the best bet is to learn "Japanese Language" and make a lot of money
there. It is fun as well for people with low ICQ. Belive me it is true.

James


Marin David Condic

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Nov 6, 2001, 4:20:59 PM11/6/01
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Wish I could claim to be that clever. Mostly, I was just typing fast and
inventing words as I went along. Probably should have said something like
"less likely to incite argument..." or similar.

But with 20/20 hindsight, it does look rather clever. :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail: marin....@pacemicro.com
Web: http://www.mcondic.com/


"Lou Moran" <lmo...@wtsg.com> wrote in message
news:plcgutonok9r5hhdn...@4ax.com...

ar...@hpcvplnx.cv.hp.com

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Nov 6, 2001, 5:27:57 PM11/6/01
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In comp.lang.java.programmer James Khan <ak...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> Brian, the best bet is to learn "Japanese Language" and make a lot of money
> there. It is fun as well for people with low ICQ. Belive me it is true.

A honto?

> James


Scott Peshak

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Nov 6, 2001, 5:58:39 PM11/6/01
to
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:00:54 -0700, "James Khan" <ak...@ucalgary.ca>
wrote:

>Brian, the best bet is to learn "Japanese Language" and make a lot of money
>there. It is fun as well for people with low ICQ. Belive me it is true.
>
>James
>

Low ICQ huh?


Scott Peshak
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.

Ulrich Windl

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Nov 7, 2001, 9:16:55 AM11/7/01
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Just try to understand some example code (let someone explain it to
you). If you don't understand any of the code, either find some new
friends, or give up the idea of programming. As one of my professors
said, once you managed to learn one language and the concepts, you
shouldn'd have trouble to learn any language in two weeks. Actually I
learned the basics of Perl in one weekend, any I actually can write
ugly Perl code ;-)

Ulrich

Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) writes:

> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.
>

Clinton A. Pierce

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Nov 7, 2001, 12:50:51 PM11/7/01
to
[Groups and Followups trimmed. I hope.]

On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 01:11:27 -0700, Dan Hinojosa <dhin...@qwest.net>
wrote:


>It's not the IQ, but the persistence that makes a programmer.
>

As I pointed out before in:


http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=s0dy5.1995%24hD4.575937%40news1.rdc1.mi.home.com

There are some programmers that should just quit. No slight to the
original poster, but if he's not a clear thinker or gets into it and
has nothing but problems...all of the persistance in the world
wouldn't make him a good programmer or even an adaquate one.

Which isn't to say "don't try." That'd be nonsense and stupid. You
could be a savant. This might be "your thing." Try it. But if it
doesn't work out, PLEASE try a related field instead.
--
Clinton A. Pierce Teach Yourself Perl in 24 Hours *and*
cli...@geeksalad.org Perl Developer's Dictionary
"If you rush a Miracle Man, for details, see http://geeksalad.org
you get rotten Miracles." --Miracle Max, The Princess Bride

Ken Stauffer

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Nov 7, 2001, 1:53:36 PM11/7/01
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> "Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:10049900...@aol.com...

> > I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have
> low IQ due to
> > early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am
> stuped, I am
> > pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what
I
> > mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> > issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> > for me.
> >

C++ is the best choice for dull programmers. The quality of your code will
be indistinguishable from that of a the C++ guru.


Ken Stauffer
"If C++ is a serious object oriented language then Eiffel isn't -- an visa
versa"


dmason

unread,
Nov 7, 2001, 5:27:46 PM11/7/01
to
...I can't believe how many people actually took this seriously....


Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) wrote in message news:<10049900...@aol.com>...

> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.
>

jmburton

unread,
Nov 7, 2001, 10:06:37 PM11/7/01
to
> C++ is the best choice for dull programmers. The quality of your code will
> be indistinguishable from that of a the C++ guru.

Are you a troll?

In case if you are genuine, which I doubt, I disagree. Eiffel is a
better language for dull programmers. Since Eiffel is usually abandoned
before software goes into production, no one will ever have to deal
with the inevitable bugs left by sloppy Eiffel programmers.
Plus, poor performance due to bad algorithms designed by poorly
educated programmers can be excused by the natural slowness of Eiffel
(garbage collection instead of efficient on-demand memory allocation
and deallocation).

You have to know C++ anyway, as Eiffel is merely a front end to C++
(it is compiled into C++, not native code), and requires external calls
to C++ for anything useful like OS services.

I studied Eiffel in college and have a buddy who used to program in
that sad pathetic language, so I do know what I am talking about.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
J M Burton
FreeBSD Consulting & Security Administration
* * * This is a .sig virus. Copy it into your .sig to propagate. * * *

Ken Stauffer

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 12:50:40 AM11/8/01
to

"dmason" <dylm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb69ecbe.01110...@posting.google.com...

> ...I can't believe how many people actually took this seriously....
>
>

Some people took communism seriously, too. Don't be so suprised.


Eirik Mangseth

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 3:06:09 AM11/8/01
to

"jmburton" <jmbu...@usenix.org> wrote in message
news:10051887...@usenix.org...

> > C++ is the best choice for dull programmers. The quality of your code
will
> > be indistinguishable from that of a the C++ guru.
>
> Are you a troll?
>
> In case if you are genuine, which I doubt, I disagree. Eiffel is a
> better language for dull programmers. Since Eiffel is usually abandoned
> before software goes into production, no one will ever have to deal
> with the inevitable bugs left by sloppy Eiffel programmers.
> Plus, poor performance due to bad algorithms designed by poorly
> educated programmers can be excused by the natural slowness of Eiffel
> (garbage collection instead of efficient on-demand memory allocation
> and deallocation).
>
> You have to know C++ anyway, as Eiffel is merely a front end to C++
> (it is compiled into C++, not native code), and requires external calls
> to C++ for anything useful like OS services.
>
> I studied Eiffel in college and have a buddy who used to program in
> that sad pathetic language, so I do know what I am talking about.

And pigs will fly.

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> J M Burton
> FreeBSD Consulting & Security Administration
> * * * This is a .sig virus. Copy it into your .sig to propagate. * * *
>

-- eirik

"If I can't Eiffel in heaven, I won't go"

IsraelRT

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 6:38:46 AM11/8/01
to
>"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:10049900...@aol.com...
>> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have
>low IQ due to
>> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am
>stuped, I am
>> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
>> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
>> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
>> for me.

Go away troll...
Go to MS land and use their brain damaged designed for trolls
language..

IsraelRT

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 6:41:03 AM11/8/01
to
On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 23:09:21 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> wrote:

>Brian Metc wrote:
>>
><snip>


>>
>> Would any one sugest the best language for me.
>

>APL.

ATL: A Trolling Language

IsraelRT

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 6:42:34 AM11/8/01
to
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 05:37:53 -0700, Kenny Chaffin <ke...@kacweb.com>
wrote:

>IQ is inherent, like personality. It has nothing to do with
>learning/deprivation/TV.

How about oxygen deprivation :-)

Graham Perkins

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 6:48:48 AM11/8/01
to
jmburton wrote:
>
> > C++ is the best choice for dull programmers. The quality of your code will
> > be indistinguishable from that of a the C++ guru.
>
> Are you a troll?
> In case if you are genuine, which I doubt, I disagree.

Lighten up! It was a joke!


> Eiffel ...

Now you say four false things (not controversial, actually
FALSE):

Garbage collection is inefficient
Eiffel is front end for C++
Programmer has to know C++ to use Eiffel
Eiffel programmer has to call C++ for anything useful like OS calls

which makes us think YOU are a troll. Please, if you have some
sensible questions to ask, about Eiffel and other technologies,
don't spoil it by making assertions from a position of ignorance.


-------------+ http:/www.gperkins.co.uk/

Joona I Palaste

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 10:07:20 AM11/8/01
to
(Crossposting snipped to only include CLC++, CLJP and CLE)

Graham Perkins <gper...@gperkins.co.uk> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.java.programmer:

>> Eiffel ...

A programmer doesn't have to know C++ to use Eiffel. This is for the
same reason that a programmer doesn't have to know Assembler to use C++.
Or have to know hard-wired CU implementation logic to know Assembler.
Or have to know subatomic-level particle physics to know hard-wired CU
implementation logic.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"To doo bee doo bee doo."
- Frank Sinatra

Marin David Condic

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 2:07:06 PM11/8/01
to
Wasn't that the joke told by Karl Marx? The funniest of The Marx Brothers?
:-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail: marin....@pacemicro.com
Web: http://www.mcondic.com/


"Ken Stauffer" <k...@stauffercom.com> wrote in message
news:9sd6ga$voa$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...

Jim Cochrane

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 4:53:37 PM11/8/01
to
Don't feed the trolls, Eirik - or the trolls responding to trolls ... :-)

In article <R1rG7.14$eZi.17...@news.telia.no>,


--
Jim Cochrane
j...@dimensional.com

[When responding by email, include the term non-spam in the subject line to
get through my spam filter.]

Patrick Doyle

unread,
Nov 8, 2001, 4:46:20 PM11/8/01
to
In article <3BEA7120...@gperkins.co.uk>,

Graham Perkins <gper...@gperkins.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Now you say four false things (not controversial, actually
>FALSE):
>
> Garbage collection is inefficient
> Eiffel is front end for C++
> Programmer has to know C++ to use Eiffel
> Eiffel programmer has to call C++ for anything useful like OS calls
>
>which makes us think YOU are a troll. Please, if you have some
>sensible questions to ask, about Eiffel and other technologies,
>don't spoil it by making assertions from a position of ignorance.

Ah, Graham. I had a whole response to this all typed up, and then
I realized that this is exactly the purpose of a troll, so I
deleted it. :-)

I must say, though, that this fellow's troll is MUCH better than
the original one. The original one seemed like a joke to me the
first moment I read it.

--
--
Patrick Doyle
doy...@eecg.toronto.edu

nofreejack

unread,
Nov 9, 2001, 5:22:10 PM11/9/01
to

"Jeff Connelly" <jcon...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:WCDF7.52445$Z2.7...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

> "Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:10049900...@aol.com...
> > I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have
low
> IQ due to
> > early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am
> stuped, I am
> > pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what
I
> > mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> > issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> > for me.
> >
> > My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual
Basic
> or Eiffel.
> > My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I learn
Ada
> because
> > it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.
> >
> > She dis couraged me from using Eiffel because itr was a language going
out
> of the
> > market, no longer used by any serious corporation, She said the same
thing
> for Ada.
> >
> > Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on
hype.
> >
> > This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under
Windows,
> Microsoft
> > stuff is always easier.
do you smoke the weed the taliban grows? Micro$hite is useless, Im using VB
for the simple fact I ws brought Up on Risc Basic and I figure it uses the
same stone age methodology. Im not saying VB is crap, in fact its rather
nice, but its expensive and can mess ur pc, like it did mine when i first
started...

A tip from me, never try to open a system file with:
Open ("C:\windows\ [some dll]") for output as #1
print #1, "If the program works you will see this writing"
Close #1

But, if you can make a program that can load and crash less than 10 times in
a week, then Bill Gates will be out of a job. I suggest this little code
snippet

Private Sub Form_Load()
Msgbox "So far, so good, doesnt seem to crash...oh wait...windows is
loadin......",vbinformation,"Hmmm"
End
End Sub

> Wow what a troll.
>
>


nofreejack

unread,
Nov 9, 2001, 5:26:04 PM11/9/01
to

"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:10049900...@aol.com...
> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have
low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am
stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.
>
> My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual Basic
or Eiffel.
> My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I learn
Ada because
> it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.
>
> She dis couraged me from using Eiffel because itr was a language going
out of the
> market, no longer used by any serious corporation, She said the same thing
for Ada.
>
> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.
>
> This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under Windows,
Microsoft
> stuff is always easier.
>
> Would any one sugest the best language for me.
>
> Brian
>
Hi, I would suggest VB
For me it was really useful. Draw a control, double click it to bring up the
sub for a click event and make it do something sexy. And even better than
that, everything you do is prompted with some sort of drop down or tooltip,
like if you type form1. it gives you a list of all the things you can do, so
if your not sure how to make a window show, it stumped me once upon a
time... you would type form1. (or whatecer the name of the form was!) [drop
down list] [select "Show"]

Simple, they chuck in a load of samples that you can call your own. Trouble
is Biblio doesnt work!

Trust Microsoft to do a mini windoze called biblio :P


Eircom News

unread,
Nov 10, 2001, 7:12:19 PM11/10/01
to
> It's not the IQ, but the persistence that makes a programmer.

Could be true. At least I 've seen a couple of examples :)

Frances Klein

unread,
Nov 12, 2001, 5:49:40 PM11/12/01
to
Java? I love to drink java at the end of a good meal. Can anyone recommend
a nice kosher restaurant in the southern half of Manhattan, full of
atmosphere and lots of choices beyond the usual?

Frances

Where have all the foodies gone???


"Marshall Spight" <msp...@dnai.com> wrote in message
news:iGCF7.23838$wj5.13...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...


"Brian Metc" <Bria...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:10049900...@aol.com...
>

> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.


Is this some kind of joke?


Marshall

no

unread,
Nov 16, 2001, 12:55:45 AM11/16/01
to

Frances Klein wrote:
>
> Java? I love to drink java at the end of a good meal. Can anyone recommend
> a nice kosher restaurant in the southern half of Manhattan, full of
> atmosphere and lots of choices beyond the usual?

KATZ's

nos...@nospam.com

unread,
Nov 16, 2001, 9:23:18 AM11/16/01
to

Learn COBOL. You won't have to worry about any GUI and
the language is more English like.


In comp.lang.perl.misc Brian Metc <Bria...@aol.com> wrote:
> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.

> My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual Basic or Eiffel.
> My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I learn Ada because
> it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.

> She dis couraged me from using Eiffel because itr was a language going out of the
> market, no longer used by any serious corporation, She said the same thing for Ada.

> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.

> This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under Windows, Microsoft

Greg Comeau

unread,
Nov 16, 2001, 10:04:40 AM11/16/01
to

2nd Avenue Deli, at 10th St I think. Once upon a time a bunch
of C++ geeks used to go and eat there, perhaps they still do at times
(see http://www.cppsig.org).
--
Greg Comeau export ETA: December See our Oct 31st special
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?

Kirsten Bayes

unread,
Nov 16, 2001, 9:13:14 PM11/16/01
to
Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) wrote in message news:<10049900...@aol.com>...
> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.
>
> My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual Basic or Eiffel.
> My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I learn Ada because
> it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.
>
> She dis couraged me from using Eiffel because itr was a language going out of the
> market, no longer used by any serious corporation, She said the same thing for Ada.
>
> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.
>
> This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under Windows, Microsoft
> stuff is always easier.
>
> Would any one sugest the best language for me.
>
> Brian

Dear Brian

If marketability is what you want, it's often good to go with the
scripting languages of popular systems. So, for UNIX that's C/C++ and
Perl, for Windows its Visual Basic & VBScript, for web apps its Java &
Javascript.

New languages grow from the established base, so up and coming
languages like PHP or Python owe alot to Perl, for example. Start with
what's out there, before moving onto languages which are out-there.

I'd let your prejudices guide you. Larry Wall, the Perl guy, often
jokes that impatience, laziness and hubris are the essential
characteristics of a good programmer. Lots of people like Microsoft,
many others think Windows is bad enough without writing more of it. A
day without Java is a day without Sun, and that's fine for many
people.

In the end, it's not the language or the platform that matters, but
the person. And, hey, you matter, Brian.

Best wishes
Kirsten

Alexandre

unread,
Nov 16, 2001, 10:51:48 PM11/16/01
to
Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) wrote in message news:<10049900...@aol.com>...
> I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> for me.
>
> My friend wh does C plus plus recommended that I learn either Visual Basic or Eiffel.
> My ex girlfriend who is a sys admin who did perl, sugested that I learn Ada because
> it has "serious type system" which is fool proof.
>
> She dis couraged me from using Eiffel because itr was a language going out of the
> market, no longer used by any serious corporation, She said the same thing for Ada.
>
> Java is simple compared to c plus plus but a scam language, based on hype.
>
> This only leaves visual basic. Especally because it is used under Windows, Microsoft
> stuff is always easier.
>
> Would any one sugest the best language for me.
>
> Brian

Go away, a good way to formulate you question would be:

I'm a stupid monkey who has no interest in computer science and want
to be a rich ass like bill gates. What should I start with?

If you want an easy language, choose QBASIC, it does exactly what you
deserve to be able do for the effort you want to put in it: almost
nothing, you might if you are lucky be able to writte a book on QBASIC
for monkeys like you who want money without effort != programming (!=
stands for not equal in C). My friendliest advice is get to work on
VB, Perl, Java(it is easier to C/C++ almost as powerful, but still
easy), C++, C, ASM and then you will get a bunch of cash by trying to
choose and love a language (Not VB, no offence, but u dont want to
carry OCXs around). (The normal way is love a language and then since
you are good, you get lots of cash, but it might work the other way
around who knows)

Andrzej Jan Taramina

unread,
Nov 17, 2001, 10:05:36 AM11/17/01
to

> Bria...@aol.com (Brian Metc) wrote in message news:<10049900...@aol.com>...
> > I would like to get into the programing field. My problem is that I have low IQ due to
> > early childhool learning deprivation and TV overdose. Simply said I am stuped, I am
> > pretty good amongst my friends, but not solving problems. You know what I
> > mean. Anyways, I want to go into computor programing because of money
> > issue. I now need to choose languege for programming, simple enough
> > for me.

> > Would any one sugest the best language for me.

English. If this is a "genuine" question, I think you need to rethink
whether programming is the best avenue for you to pursue. A career in
QA/Testing might be more in tune with your abilities rather than
programming.

Oh...and turn the TV off and get some books out instead.


Andrzej Jan Taramina

Chaeron Consulting Corp
Enterprise System Solutions
http://www.chaeron.com

NOTE: Remove Spamicide(tm) before replying!!!

Gregor

unread,
Nov 23, 2001, 8:34:20 PM11/23/01
to
As a professional web developer, I would have to say LOGO is the wave
of the future. LOGO is an unappreciated language and easy to learn!
It's so fun to watch the turtle running around my Atari Mega ST4's
screen! A few easy commands and you're ready to go.
Avoid at all costs C++, Java, Visual Basic, JavaScript/VBscript, and
PERL. These languages are the tools of the US military/industrial
complex that controls the W3 and are only truly understood by
operatives of the CIA, NSA and FBI.
Also, do not code any web pages beyond the HTML 2.0 spec since there
are serious security issues involved in later implementations of the
DTD.

IsraelRT

unread,
Nov 24, 2001, 4:58:43 AM11/24/01