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Eiffel is a dead language
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Ignoramus2372
Oct 10, 2012, 11:26:32 PM10/10/12
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I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
by C++ and Java?
by C++ and Java?
ma...@eiffel.com
Oct 11, 2012, 1:26:52 AM10/11/12
to
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:26:32 PM UTC-7, Ignoramus2372 wrote:
> I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
>
> by C++ and Java?
It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
> I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
>
> by C++ and Java?
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012 (the listing for Eiffel goes up and down from month to month like any ranking based on websearch).
Now Eiffel could do better and is clearly a very good alternative to C++ or Java. This is what we are working on. Making Eiffel more attractive and more known to the developers.
Emmanuel Stapf
Eiffel Software
Simon Willcocks
Oct 14, 2012, 5:38:15 PM10/14/12
to
In message <af37b2ed-b9b2-4542...@googlegroups.com>
What happened with Objective-C (a comparable language to Eiffel, I think:
about the same age, OO, compiled, etc.) in mid 2009, and do you think Eiffel
can manage something similar?
Simon
--
ROLF - The RISC OS Look and Feel on Linux.
http://ro-lookandfeel.blogspot.com/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ro-lf/
ma...@eiffel.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:26:32 PM UTC-7, Ignoramus2372 wrote:
> > I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
> >
> > by C++ and Java?
>
> It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
>
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012
Third from bottom, as I write this.
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:26:32 PM UTC-7, Ignoramus2372 wrote:
> > I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
> >
> > by C++ and Java?
>
> It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
>
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012
What happened with Objective-C (a comparable language to Eiffel, I think:
about the same age, OO, compiled, etc.) in mid 2009, and do you think Eiffel
can manage something similar?
Simon
--
ROLF - The RISC OS Look and Feel on Linux.
http://ro-lookandfeel.blogspot.com/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ro-lf/
Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
Oct 15, 2012, 1:07:54 AM10/15/12
to
> Third from bottom, as I write this.
Indeed it fluctuates. In July we were #33. So it is to be taken with a
grain of salt.
> What happened with Objective-C (a comparable language to Eiffel, I think:
> about the same age, OO, compiled, etc.) in mid 2009, and do you think Eiffel
> can manage something similar?
that Eiffel still has the competitive edge compare to the other
programming languages. One thing missing is the library ecosystem that
you have with the more popular languages and we certainly would hope for
more contribution to fill the gap.
To make Eiffel more popular, people who are excited about the language
should talk about it to their friends and coworkers, they should write
blogs about Eiffel and its benefits. They are so many venues where
Eiffel could be mentioned. Eiffel enthusiasts don't be shy!
Regards,
Emmanuel Stapf
Eiffel Software
ccwu660601
Oct 15, 2012, 9:30:16 PM10/15/12
to
It's not only a problem of library.
I'd wish the code generated by EiffelStudio can achieve the speed of Gobo Eiffel or SmartEiffel.
Emmanuel Stapf [ES]於 2012年10月15日星期一UTC+8下午1時08分08秒寫道：
I'd wish the code generated by EiffelStudio can achieve the speed of Gobo Eiffel or SmartEiffel.
Emmanuel Stapf [ES]於 2012年10月15日星期一UTC+8下午1時08分08秒寫道：
Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
Oct 16, 2012, 1:56:33 PM10/16/12
to
> I'd wish the code generated by EiffelStudio can achieve the speed of Gobo Eiffel or SmartEiffel.
It can, it is just that our default config for memory management is made
for large systems that are made to run longer. As a result the cost of
memory management code instrumenting has an impact on things like
iterations. Although not supported in our commercial version, you can
choose to use a different garbage collector algorithm for which the
generated code is slightly more efficient overall.
If you compare Eiffel to C# or Java, we usually achieve very good
performance especially with large system. We can always do better and as
you may know EiffelStudio is open source and if there are some
optimizations that we do not do that you would like to see, feel free to
share it with us and to contribute.
Open source development website:
http://dev.eiffel.com
Source code (note that you need to accept a certificate):
https://svn.eiffel.com/eiffelstudio
Regards,
Manu
vfn...@gmail.com
Oct 14, 2013, 6:14:45 AM10/14/13
to
Hi,
Maybe this is an old 3d but I think still valid, because I think if we are still here debating about it, it means Eiffel is not dead.
With this i would like to say that it seems to me that the latest C++11 standard is an attempt to patch the weak points that this language, as heir of C, brings with it since 20 or more years.
For me Eiffel is still a superior language (I am a C++ developer) even after the supposedly great improvements that C++11 claims to have brought.
However we are still talking about low-level stuff, smart pointers (in Eiffel you dont need them, even better!), thread low level facilities like locks and mutexes (Eiffel has a higher level concurrent model), functional programming (they want to make C++ a multi-paradigm monster, at the end you dont know any more what programming style you are using, all mixed, functional, structural and object oriented).
No wonder that OO technology hasnt been understood after 20 years of practice, since no pure OO language has been adopted at large!
With this I say long live Eiffel and may the walking dead languages disappear soon, would be better for all of us...!
Maybe this is an old 3d but I think still valid, because I think if we are still here debating about it, it means Eiffel is not dead.
With this i would like to say that it seems to me that the latest C++11 standard is an attempt to patch the weak points that this language, as heir of C, brings with it since 20 or more years.
For me Eiffel is still a superior language (I am a C++ developer) even after the supposedly great improvements that C++11 claims to have brought.
However we are still talking about low-level stuff, smart pointers (in Eiffel you dont need them, even better!), thread low level facilities like locks and mutexes (Eiffel has a higher level concurrent model), functional programming (they want to make C++ a multi-paradigm monster, at the end you dont know any more what programming style you are using, all mixed, functional, structural and object oriented).
No wonder that OO technology hasnt been understood after 20 years of practice, since no pure OO language has been adopted at large!
With this I say long live Eiffel and may the walking dead languages disappear soon, would be better for all of us...!
lun...@gmail.com
May 12, 2016, 12:09:47 PM5/12/16
to
> > I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
> > by C++ and Java?
>
> It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
>
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012 (the listing for Eiffel goes up and down from month to month like any ranking based on websearch).
Just for the record: in spring 2016 Eiffel is no longer on that list, sadly.
> > by C++ and Java?
>
> It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
>
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012 (the listing for Eiffel goes up and down from month to month like any ranking based on websearch).
Bruce Axtens
Jun 6, 2018, 9:18:49 PM6/6/18
to
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Pascal J. Bourguignon
Jun 7, 2018, 1:09:48 PM6/7/18
to
Bruce Axtens <sne...@hotmail.com> writes:
> On 5/13/2016 12:09 AM, lun...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
>>>> by C++ and Java?
>>>
>>> It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
>>>
>>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>>>
>>> Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012 (the listing for Eiffel goes up and down from month to month like any ranking based on websearch).
>>
>> Just for the record: in spring 2016 Eiffel is no longer on that list, sadly.
>>
> and here we are, June 2018, and Eiffel's not on the page anywhere.
One way to keep a language alive, is to write a tool or an application
> On 5/13/2016 12:09 AM, lun...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> I am thinking, why did Eiffel die and why was it completely supplanted
>>>> by C++ and Java?
>>>
>>> It never died, it is very much alive. If you look at the following page:
>>>
>>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>>>
>>> Eiffel is listed in the top 50 for October 2012 (the listing for Eiffel goes up and down from month to month like any ranking based on websearch).
>>
>> Just for the record: in spring 2016 Eiffel is no longer on that list, sadly.
>>
> and here we are, June 2018, and Eiffel's not on the page anywhere.
that is useful to users, and package it so it can be distributed on the
main Linux distributions. Then people will want to maintain or improve
it, and will learn the language.
There are several such tools written in Haskell, or erlang for example.
--
__Pascal J. Bourguignon
http://www.informatimago.com
Larry Rix
Aug 4, 2021, 3:45:32 PM8/4/21
to
Manu!!!
TO ALL: Yes, it is true that Eiffel is on the Tiobe Index and has been for years! (in the top 50). This is pretty good accomplishment considering that there are about 700 programming languages in the world.
And to Manu's point—there are a lot of us who are working on attracting more and more developers into an Eiffel world. The biggest complaint (even from me) is the lack of libraries and products. For my part—I am trying to increase both (i.e. recently Foggler, Rialize, and now Stantion). Moreover—even though the Eiffel Team is small they still do a ton of work. They just need a helping hand.
Therefore—if you see a library that ought to be there, then roll up your sleeves and start coding. Even a weak attempt is better than no attempt at all. If that library happens to be a C API, then talk with the Eiffel Team about WrapC and getting a wrapper on it.
> Emmanuel Stapf
> Eiffel Software
TO ALL: Yes, it is true that Eiffel is on the Tiobe Index and has been for years! (in the top 50). This is pretty good accomplishment considering that there are about 700 programming languages in the world.
And to Manu's point—there are a lot of us who are working on attracting more and more developers into an Eiffel world. The biggest complaint (even from me) is the lack of libraries and products. For my part—I am trying to increase both (i.e. recently Foggler, Rialize, and now Stantion). Moreover—even though the Eiffel Team is small they still do a ton of work. They just need a helping hand.
Therefore—if you see a library that ought to be there, then roll up your sleeves and start coding. Even a weak attempt is better than no attempt at all. If that library happens to be a C API, then talk with the Eiffel Team about WrapC and getting a wrapper on it.
> Emmanuel Stapf
> Eiffel Software
Larry Rix
Aug 4, 2021, 3:49:02 PM8/4/21
to
Hi Bruce,
I counted wrong. It is in the Top 100 (e.g. Next 50 after the First 50).
The Next 50 Programming Languages
The following list of languages denotes #51 to #100. Since the differences are relatively small, the programming languages are only listed (in alphabetical order).
ActionScript, Alice, Arc, Awk, B4X, bc, BCPL, Bourne shell, CFML, CL (OS/400), Clipper, CLIPS, Common Lisp, Eiffel, Elixir, Elm, Forth, Fortress, Haskell, Icon, Inform, Io, J#, Korn shell, LiveCode, Maple, Modula-2, MQL4, MUMPS, NATURAL, NXT-G, Oberon, OCaml, Occam, OpenEdge ABL, PL/I, PostScript, PowerShell, Pure Data, Q, REXX, Ring, RPG, Simulink, Smalltalk, Solidity, SPARK, Stata, Uniface, Xojo
I counted wrong. It is in the Top 100 (e.g. Next 50 after the First 50).
The Next 50 Programming Languages
The following list of languages denotes #51 to #100. Since the differences are relatively small, the programming languages are only listed (in alphabetical order).
ActionScript, Alice, Arc, Awk, B4X, bc, BCPL, Bourne shell, CFML, CL (OS/400), Clipper, CLIPS, Common Lisp, Eiffel, Elixir, Elm, Forth, Fortress, Haskell, Icon, Inform, Io, J#, Korn shell, LiveCode, Maple, Modula-2, MQL4, MUMPS, NATURAL, NXT-G, Oberon, OCaml, Occam, OpenEdge ABL, PL/I, PostScript, PowerShell, Pure Data, Q, REXX, Ring, RPG, Simulink, Smalltalk, Solidity, SPARK, Stata, Uniface, Xojo
hank....@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2022, 7:53:37 PM1/28/22
to
> Therefore—if you see a library that ought to be there, then roll up your sleeves and start coding. Even a weak attempt is better than no attempt at all. If that library happens to be a C API, then talk with the Eiffel Team about WrapC and getting a wrapper on it.
>
> > Emmanuel Stapf
> > Eiffel Software
However, the Eiffel documentation is just about the pits, for me at least, with the numbers of practical examples close to zero. OTOH, it's good on the theoretical aspects. But that's not what I need when I'm in a hurry. When it comes to using Eiffel collections, it is even worse.
So, if you want people to com to Eiffel, write good introductory documentation.
The reason Python has attracted so many non-programmers (but physicists, statisticians, etc) is because they found the entry level easy (I heard this on a recent Lex Friedman podcast, forgot the guy's name). My take on Eiffel is that it's easy too, or reasonably easy - but the documentation and examples are so thin, you know? And that's on you guys, not on users coming to the language to check it out.
-- Hank
Lothar Scholz
May 19, 2023, 8:14:31 PM5/19/23
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