clarion5a
Warwick
thnx
Warwick
David Troxell - Encourager Software
> Can Clarion5a be run on Vista? can apps written in C5a run on Vista?
Warwick,
You face MANY problems with both issues you have raised -
Is the problem C5a is the latest version you own, or some reason, you don't
want to convert it to C6 format?
Actually, C5b was the most stable version of C5.
In general, if you want to successfully deploy in Vista (or Windows 7),
you need to code sign the program EXE,
should be 32 bit (16 bit is still useable in Vista 32 bit - but not
recommended),
the program needs to be Vista or Windows 7 manifested
And the data should be written to UAC safe locations.
Running C5 in XP would be a better alternative.
But again, designing a program in C5 for Vista release is FULL of problem
areas.
David
>
> thnx
> Warwick
--
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David Troxell - Encourager Software
wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 18:39:45 +1000, Warwick wrote:
>
>> Can Clarion5a be run on Vista? can apps written in C5a run on Vista?
Warwick,
As a followup - There may be a way I am not aware of - but I don't think C5
programs can be Vista manifested - AND that is a HUGE stumbling block for
building programs in today's market.
David
Warwick
the problem is that I have a C5a app running on XP and the client wants to
upgrade the computer to Vista.
I will still have to support the app but don't want to rewrite or upgrade
the app.
Warwick
"David Troxell - Encourager Software"
<C3P_Remove_@_Me_encouragersoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1cl0usi0lnkbq.1...@40tude.net...
David Troxell - Encourager Software
> Thanks for your help David.
>
> the problem is that I have a C5a app running on XP and the client wants to
> upgrade the computer to Vista.
> I will still have to support the app but don't want to rewrite or upgrade
> the app.
Warwick,
This would be my opinion after working in Vista since almost it's first
release, and now mostly in Windows 7 -
you're not doing any favors for a client that really needs real Vista
support with any substitute methods.
Vista (and Windows 7) view programs without proper UAC manifests as Legacy,
and treats them differently from properly prepared Vista or Windows 7 ready
programs.
Charles Edmonds of LANSRAD (http://www.lansrad.com/) recently stated this
in a SoftVelocity newsgroup.
In order for your program to install and function correctly in a modern OS,
you need four things:
1) An installer creation tool capable of producing an elevated installer
that is Vista, Server 2008 and Windows 7 aware.
Product Description - SetupBuilder Professional, MFG - Lindersoft
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/products_setupbuilder_pro.htm
USD $199
2) You need a manifest for Windows 7 (and backwards compatible) to tell the
OS what the program needs to run.
There are various ways you can manifest a Clarion program.
3) Your installer and the app needs to be Code Signed so that the OS can
run assured that the installation file was from who it was supposed to be
from and that the executable's are from a known source and not from an
"unknown publisher".
For minimally - USD $79 for a single year (plus $25 for Lindersoft
Community Membership if you don't own a Lindersoft SetupBuilder product),
this source will help you properly code sign your program EXE.
Product Description - Comodo Code Signing Certificate, MFG - Comodo
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/order_codesigning.htm
4) Your app needs to create data and INI files in UAC safe locations so
that Virtualization of these files does not occur.
If you minimally use C6 - ABC - this Clarion Tool (Clarion ProPath USD
$39.95) will help you set UAC safe data paths for data files and ini's - a
MAJOR step forward.
Product Description - ProPath, MFG - LANSRAD
Internet Link - http://www.clarionproseries.com/html/propath.html
David
Roger Due
Before spending too much effort on this Vista issue, just try
installing the application OUTSIDE of c:\Program Files\ in another
folder. I have run many older program in c:\Programs\ and other
folders outside of c:\Program Files\ without any difficulty.
David & Charles are right in what we should be doing, but sometimes we
have to take a short cut first.
If you don't have access to Vista, consider installing VMware
Workstation and then Vista in VMware to do your testing. Works great.
-- Roger Due
David Troxell - Encourager Software
> Warwick,
> Before spending too much effort on this Vista issue, just try
> installing the application OUTSIDE of c:\Program Files\ in another
> folder. I have run many older program in c:\Programs\ and other
> folders outside of c:\Program Files\ without any difficulty.
>
> David & Charles are right in what we should be doing, but sometimes we
> have to take a short cut first.
Roger,
I would respectively disagree with this point - generally speaking, some
Clarion developers all too often having been taking short cuts for over 2
years.
This is 2009 - we have had UAC operating systems since January 2007 - this
has been more than enough time to prepare and develop applications that
work well with Vista and Windows 7 - AND, by following the "rules", we can
cover XP and older OSs as well.
Many companies have already been following UAC safe rules, developed during
XP days (not enforced then) and were ready for Vista from day 1.
The day will come when even XP will no longer be in widespread use -
equipment outdated, updated, MS no longer supporting OEM XP installs
Even the limited XP Mode in Windows 7 is a stop gap measure, not a signal
for XP forever.
No, IMHO, time to move up to better methods overall - live in the modern
era we live in - and develop accordingly.
It's not that difficult to do, and with the latest INEXPENSIVE Clarion
Third Party products like:
Product Description - ProPath, MFG - LANSRAD
Internet Link - http://www.clarionproseries.com/html/propath.html
It is becoming even easier to implement.
David
>
> If you don't have access to Vista, consider installing VMware
> Workstation and then Vista in VMware to do your testing. Works great.
> -- Roger Due
Warwick
Its quite an old app and I have informed the client that to keep using it,
it has to be run on XP and there will be no more mods.
Warwick
"David Troxell - Encourager Software"
<C3P_Remove_@_Me_encouragersoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1mtne0kkg21fw.1...@40tude.net...
Roger Due
I don't disagree that we should move up to the Vista standards, but
what I was pointing out was that there are times when other strategies
can be used effectively.
-- Roger Due
David Troxell - Encourager Software
Roger,
I agree that temp methods are a last resolution for some -
for instance, client refuses to pay for a particular updated program, yet
you still might gain income in other ways from the client, so you try to
accomodate them.
BUT, you would be surprised at the number of Clarion developers who still
refuse or have not even begun to switch to UAC safe methods of Clarion
development.
Unfortunately, even the latest C7 does NOT directly support UAC safe
methods in some very significant ways - even the help file is still written
as if under the older, unenforced XP rules.
However, I have written and maintain other blogs that help Clarion
developers with Vista, Windows 7, and Clarion 6, particularly:
Clarion programs - Making App Data UAC (Vista and Windows 7) safe and XP
compatible
http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=120
There is a wealth of information AND references to other sources to help
any Clarion developer start to transition successfully to UAC safe methods.
AND, of course, the SoftVelocity newsgroups
SoftVelocity news server
news.softvelocity.com
is visited by some of the best experts in the software development business
that will not only help you with state of the art Clarion methods, but
cutting edge Clarion and UAC safe methods.
My personal recommendation, but if you have these three tools - you are
WELL on your way to producing Clarion programs that will work successfully
in XP, Vista, Windows 7, Windows 7 Server, Server 2008, Server 2004, W2K
Pro...
Product Description - ProPath, MFG - LANSRAD
Internet Link - http://www.clarionproseries.com/html/propath.html
Control file paths CSIDL, Windows Registry, Control Files
AND
Product Description - SetupBuilder Developer, MFG - Lindersoft
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/products_setupbuilder_dev.htm
Deploy and Update your Applications over the Web
OR
Product Description - SetupBuilder Professional, MFG - Lindersoft
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/products_setupbuilder_pro.htm
State of the Art Installation System
AND
Product Description - Comodo Code Signing Certificate, MFG - Comodo
Internet Link - http://www.lindersoft.com/order_codesigning.htm
Code Signing Digital IDs - designed for software publishers
* * Blogs * *
Vista, Windows 7 and Clarion 6
C6 IDE appearance and help issues
"You can use the Windows XP version of WinHLP32.EXE to take full advantage
of the Clarion 6 Help in Vista." (same applies to Windows 7)
http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=20
* * * * *
Clarion 6 on Vista and Clarion Version Detection for 3rd Party Products
"The Clarion 6 Vista Installation Fix freeware application makes the
appropriate WIN.INI modifications so 3rd party installations can detect
Clarion 6 on Vista, Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 machines."
http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=47
* * * * *
Clarion programs - Making App Data UAC (Vista and Windows 7) safe and XP
compatible
http://profileexchanges.com/blog/?p=120
David