The banning of Ben Brady.
Jay Ambrose
and occasionally contribute. The situation with Ben and the
rest of the Clarion community is quite interesting. I have read
all of the messages from several different threads and have come
to the following conclusions.
1) I feel Ben has a right to say what he wants. Even if it is negative
toward the Clarion Product. His views will not change my views
and should not change anyone else's. It is like arguing which football
team is better or my dad is Stronger than your dad. It is an opinion!!!
2) It was not disruptive to the news group. The news group let it be
disruptive. If you want something to go away, just ignore it. It is
just like
when a movie comes out that a certain interest group doesn't want
you to see. They protest (respond) to the movie and then everyone
wants to go see it. If you ignore it, then it does not become a
problem.
I know it is hard not to respond but sometimes saying nothing is the
best
solution. I was even tempted to respond several time but refrained until
I read about the banning.
3) No product or company is perfect. We all have complaints about other
development tools and how the companies handle their support and
products.
I work on PeopleSoft's line of HRMS and Financial products for Big
Companies.
Their products are used by every (and I mean every) fortune 500 company
and they are one of the few software vendors making a great profit, their
products
are not perfect and I complain to them and in their discussion groups.
Bigger is not better.
4) I love Clarion. Clarion is the best PC Development tool I have ever
used and I have used
them all. The 3rd part group is one of the best around. Great
Products!!! Ben's opinion has
not stopped me from using Clarion and will not stop me from updating to
5.5. Some of what
he has to say makes sense and from the responses (in favor and not), he
did strike a nerve.
5) We need to realize that Clarion is only a software product. It is not who
we are but what we use.
When someone attacks the product or it's vendor you can not take it
personally. It is only a
business opinion. Remember it is only business. It only got ugly when
the personal attacks
started happening and that should have never happened. We can't take
attacks on Clarion or SV
personally.
Solution: ""Personal"" apologies should be made on both sides. What was
said about Clarion and
SV on both sides does not require an apology. Those were
opinions on a company and product
and we all have a right to speak our mind in those regards.
When a company hosts a news group they need to
take the good with the bad.
Michael Gould
I will agree with you on your point that Ben can say anything he wants in
comp.lang.clarion since it is a Usenet group, but on the privately owned
newsgroups, SV has every right to even ban and deny access to anyone who is
disruptive on "thier" private newsgroups.
Michael Gould
"Jay Ambrose" <jcam...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:3bc10379$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Ben E. Brady
are hardly able to be defined as being 'disruptive'.
Ben E. Brady
Brady & Associates, LLC.
www.firewallreporting.com
"Michael Gould" <mgo...@omnicc.com> wrote in message
news:3bc186c7$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Jeppe Jensen
> comp.lang.clarion since it is a Usenet group, but on the privately owned
> newsgroups, SV has every right to even ban and deny access to anyone who
is
> disruptive on "thier" private newsgroups.
>
> Michael Gould
"You may not use the Software in connection with any site that disparages
Microsoft, MSN, MSNBC, Expedia, or their products or services, infringe any
intellectual property or other rights of these parties, violate any state,
federal or international law, or promote racism, hatred or pornography."
Michael Gould
That isn't the same at all... MS is saying any site that uses their
product... I'm saying that SV has the right to monitor their own private
newsgroups. All of the newsgroups with the TopSpeed or SoftVelocity label
are their private groups. They have the right to set the rules of conduct
on these groups.
--
Michael Gould
Omni Computer Consulting, Inc.
"Jeppe Jensen" <Jepp...@Bestseller.dk1> wrote in message
news:3bc1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Randy Rogers
It follows then that if someone doesn't like what is happening in the
'private' ng's they should just not use them. Although the ng's on
Softvelocity servers are technically 'private', SV has made their access
'public'. At least Ben has a forum here. While I don't always agree with
his views, he knows how to get a thread going.
Regards
Randy
Russell B. Eggen
was moaning about being banned from the IRC sessions.
--
Russ
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous"
"Randy Rogers" <rro...@keystonecr.com> wrote in message
news:3bc1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Riebens
http://www.softvelocity.com/services/services_techsupp.free.htm
Regards
--
Benjamin Dell (CCD)
Riebens Systems
www.riebens.co.za
+27827743256
"Michael Gould" <mgo...@omnicc.com> wrote in message
news:3bc1adbd$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Ben E. Brady
the same web page when it is convenient for them to do so for their own
purposes...
http://www.softvelocity.com/services/services_techsupp.free.htm
"SoftVelocity's internal news server offers newsgroups for all Clarion
products. This is a great venue to exchange ideas with your peers while
receiving assistance from SoftVelocity employees and Team SoftVelocity
members.
<snip> ...
You can also participate in the Clarion Usenet newsgroup that is available
on the Internet — comp.lang.clarion. Clarion programmers from around the
world use this newsgroup to exchange ideas and techniques. SoftVelocity
employees and Team SoftVelocity members also offer assistance in this
newsgroup.
Just a bit 'inconsistent' don't you think?
Ben E. Brady
Brady & Associates, LLC.
"Riebens" <b...@riebens.co.za> wrote in message
Dan Scott
Right on the nose buddy..
where on earth these guys get the idea that they need to defend a business
(not their own) is totally beyond me.
The worst part is when they can't defend it truthfully so they start
attacking individuals personally with name calling etc...
By the way, the personal attacks are only from a small group of users lead
by the self appointed NG guru. I think Ben realizes this, or he would have
simply signed off the NG for good. The majority of users in the NG are not
like that at all.
Dan
"Jay Ambrose" <jcam...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:3bc10379$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Dan Scott
I think I will keep that link for defense purposes. <g>
Dan
"Riebens" <b...@riebens.co.za> wrote in message
Ben E. Brady
Us one-eyed guys don't miss much.
Ben E. Brady
Brady & Associates, LLC.
"Dan Scott" <dsc...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3bc1eff4$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Michael Gould
that they feel is contray to their company.
Michael Gould
"Riebens" <b...@riebens.co.za> wrote in message
James Cooke
Because:
If your town has a public swimming pool and you are
caught peeing in it you will also be banned from the pool.
Same applies here.
--
Kind regards,
James Cooke
=================================
"Riebens" <b...@riebens.co.za> wrote in message
Jesus Moreno
--
Jesus F. Moreno
CEO, President
Gitano Software, Inc.
Certified Clarion Developer
www.gitanosoftware.com
------Software Consulting and Development
www.g-reg.com
------Software Licensing and Registration
www.clarionutilities.com
------Add-ons for Clarion Developers
"Ben E. Brady" <bbra...@SPAMiname.com> wrote in message
news:9psud0$dpi$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
Ville Vahtera
"James Cooke" <jamesc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3bc1f592$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
> Public <> Abusable.
> Because:
> If your town has a public swimming pool and you are
> caught peeing in it you will also be banned from the pool.
> Same applies here.
I've heard that peeing into pants will worm for a moment <g>
Regards,
Ville
Ville Vahtera
"Ville Vahtera" <vi...@vahterat.net> wrote in message news:3bc2007d$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
>
> "James Cooke" <jamesc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3bc1f592$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
> > Public <> Abusable.
> > Because:
> > If your town has a public swimming pool and you are
> > caught peeing in it you will also be banned from the pool.
> > Same applies here.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ville
>
>
James Cooke
--
Kind regards,
James Cooke
=================================
Andrew Ireland
> Right on the nose buddy..
> where on earth these guys get the idea that they need to defend a business
> (not their own) is totally beyond me.
Probably because some of us spent a great deal of time working either for Topspeed and or SV and we / they feel hurt by what
some people say as it is a personal attack on what was a good job done by most. I myself worked for them on and off for nearly 4
years. On and off because I had left TS because of felt uncomfortable with the direction but I did not get out here and do my
best to try to destroy them, I went away and did something else for a while. The condemnation DAB got for instance re the
wizatrons was not deserved. The product grew beyond it's original design but with ever increasing pressure to ship therefore the
problem being one of feature creep. DAB is a great coder and a nice person as were many of the employees at TS and as are many
at SV. Being the guardian of clarion is a thankless task and I suggest you read my only other post. I have stayed out of these
discussions till now but the thread on the demise of clarion is just complete rubbish from people that know nothing of what SV
are doing and less of what TS was doing. I suggest you get some background on the companies before you start defending a
position that has very little basis in fact except where TS was concerned.
> The worst part is when they can't defend it truthfully so they start
> attacking individuals personally with name calling etc...
What did I say that was not truthfull for example? Yes some may have gotten very personal but not all, and tarring everyone that
has had a go at ben with the same brush is not how to win friends and influence people. Read my comments, they were fair,
balanced and definately truthfull. Many of us here are passionate about our work and sometimes things are said that go a bit OTT
and I'm sure for the most part this is the same with ben, but your comments are completely wrong. Yes some people have gone too
far in thier condemnation of ben but ben has also taken this too far and this thread should now be stopped before someone says
anything really hurtfull to SV or any one particular individual. If you want some home truths about this community, I'll give
them to you but a portion of this community will certainly not like what I would have to say and it most certainly would be
truthfull.
If you want things to improve, this is certainly not the way to do it. All you are doing is harming the community and SV in
particular. When someone is evaluating tools and they read these messages, what do you think they think to themselves?
SV needs to grow. They do not have the resources to do newsletters all the time and have a constantly updating web page etc.
This has been mentioned by SV. And why not, because they are currently fixing bugs and shipping these patches for free and
working long hours to do it. And still people are not happy. So I guess the question is, can these people ever be happy? Think
about it and if you still can't see anything positive, please feel free to use another tool because, and this is not being
unfair, if the tool and the vendor can't keep you happy, you do not need to shout from every tower, you need to find another
tool.
Regards
Andy.
gary shank
I work for the Portland School Dist in Oregon
We have PeopleSoft PeopleTools 7.6
Is this one of yours.. did you work on this project
gary
> and occasionally contribute. The situation with Ben and the
> rest of the Clarion community is quite interesting. I have read
> all of the messages from several different threads and have come
> to the following conclusions.
>
>
Ville Vahtera
"Andrew Ireland" <andrew_...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:3bc20e07$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
> SV needs to grow. They do not have the resources to do newsletters all the time and have a constantly updating web page etc.
> This has been mentioned by SV. And why not, because they are currently fixing bugs and shipping these patches for free and
> working long hours to do it. And still people are not happy. So I guess the question is, can these people ever be happy? Think
> about it and if you still can't see anything positive, please feel free to use another tool because, and this is not being
> unfair, if the tool and the vendor can't keep you happy, you do not need to shout from every tower, you need to find another
> tool.
Thank you for the information Andrew!
At least someone gave the answers for the questions I made :-)
Anyway, if SV is so busy while practicing above activities, is there any chance that
persons who are aware about the status behind the curtain will throw some pieces
of information over here?
Regards,
Ville
Russell B. Eggen
Judging by their past history, then yes they will. So one could conclude
that they have nothing to announce at this time. I think the bulk of their
efforts is getting patch F ready. Judging by some comments I've heard, just
a few wrinkles were found in last minute testing, so it sounds real close.
Once that is done, I think their thrust will be getting 5.6 out the door
(guess on my part). That and a few other things (on their own development
time line) that due to NDA, I cannot comment on.
--
Russ
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous"
"Ville Vahtera" <vi...@vahterat.net> wrote in message
news:3bc21574$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Ben E. Brady
Andy said...
"They do not have the resources to do newsletters all the time and have a
constantly updating web page etc. This has been mentioned by SV. And why
not, because they are currently fixing bugs and shipping these patches for
free and working long hours to do it. And still people are not happy. So I
guess the question is, can these people ever be happy? Think about it and if
you still can't see anything positive, please feel free to use another tool
because, and this is not being unfair, if the tool and the vendor can't keep
you happy, you do not need to shout from every tower, you need to find
another
tool. "
My rebuttal...
Then they should not make promises that they do not have the resources to
deliver on. It was SoftVelocity that stated they would be more
communicative with their customers via newsletters and the web site. It was
SoftVelocity that stated they were going to do things differently than their
previous counterparts and it was SoftVelocity that has stated they are going
to deliver the product that we have been promised long ago.
Using your logic there would not be any need for the Federal Trade
Commission, the Better Business Bureau or the Consumer Product Safety
Commission because any and all valid customer complaints about lousy
products or poor business practices would be totally ignored by the
organizations who are the subject of the complaints.
All I, and many other customers, want is a product that works as advertised.
We are tired of the broken promises and false statements. That is what
will make us happy.
These are not personal attacks against anyone in the development team of
SoftVelocity or TopSpeed. We know they are working hard and long hours.
What I am complaining about is the management aspects of SoftVelocity and
the fact that nothing has changed in the past year and a half and we are
still waiting for them to deliver on their promises. There are more than a
few of us that are getting very tired of waiting.
Regards,
Susan Pichotta
Hmm. Never heard that. If I had, I would have tried it... <g>
I did my certification dives in Lake Tahoe & Donner Lake,
California, elevation something very high, and the water was
COLD!
--
Susan Pichotta -- su...@candobidding.com
Can Do Bidding Software / Icetips Software & Consulting
www.candobidding.com / www.icetips.com
Art Bonds
lot like having a peeing section in the swimming pool." How close to the
peeing section do you sit? (rhetorical question).
"Ville Vahtera" <vi...@vahterat.net> wrote in message
news:3bc2...@news.softvelocity.com...
Kelvin Chua
prohibited. The only place you can smoke is lobby or rest-rooms. So...
when you go to rest-rooms, you can hardly see any hole to pee... visibility
is darn bad! <G> Just kidding, should be able to do a good job.
Thanks.
Kelvin Chua
SINGAPORE
"Art Bonds" <artb...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
James Cooke
Well, its even better if you borrowed the wetsuit.
But its a cardinal rule never to *tell* the lender about
your act of thermal adjustment. Ask any diver. <g>
I dived on the USS Helerberg in Hout Bay in Cape Town.
The water was 7 Degrees Celsius (about 45 Fahrenheit)
It hurt, especially the missing finger on my glove. But my
built in thermal compensator made up for it..
--
Kind regards,
James Cooke
jamesc...@yahoo.com
www.ClarionFoundry.com
--
"Susan Pichotta" <su...@candobidding.com> wrote in message
news:3bc2597b$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Randy Rogers
I did not mean to imply that Ben had been banned from SV ng's. As far as I
am aware he has not....although one of his earlier posts indicated that he
felt some of his messages had disappeared.
Regards
Randy
"Russell B. Eggen" <reg...@removethis.gte.net> wrote in message
news:3bc1b1b0$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Randy Rogers
I think Abraham Lincoln said something like "You can please some people all
the time and all the people some of the time, but you can never please all
the people all the time"
Regards
Randy
"Andrew Ireland" <andrew_...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3bc20e07$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Steve Parker
--
Steve Parker
====================================
kb and download center at: www.par2.com
====================================
"Randy Rogers" <rro...@keystonecr.com> wrote in message
news:3bc2d835$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Randy Rogers
Maybe we should get CNN involved!
Regards
Randy
"Ville Vahtera" <vi...@vahterat.net> wrote in message
news:3bc21574$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Ville Vahtera
"Randy Rogers" <rro...@keystonecr.com> wrote in message news:3bc2...@news.softvelocity.com...
> Ville,
> Maybe we should get CNN involved!
> Regards
> Randy
Jee! ... media can do miracles. You don't have by chance any friends working on there?
This must be worth of line or two?!
Regards,
Ville
Russell B. Eggen
--
Russ
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous"
"Susan Pichotta" <su...@candobidding.com> wrote in message
news:3bc2597b$1...@news.softvelocity.com...
Roel S.F. Abspoel - WKM Business Software
Softvelocity.products.Clarion.divers.only or something?
From what i gather there are plenty diving clarion users :)
Did my training right here in the cold waters of the Netherlands...
"Russell B. Eggen" <reg...@removethis.gte.net> schreef in bericht
news:3bc2...@news.softvelocity.com...
Richard Rogers
<spa...@megsinet.net> wrote:
>"fool"
Who are you calling a fool? <VBG>
Best Regards
Richard
The AppInit Template Set
Tommyd
correct quote made by Abe... I am pretty sure that is what he meant...
Richard Rogers <rich...@online.no> wrote in message
news:3bc29388...@news.softvelocity.com...
Richard Rogers
>Substitute the word "fool" for the word "please" in your posting for the
>correct quote made by Abe... I am pretty sure that is what he meant...
I knew that, that's why I was grinning. However, understanding Steve's
humor a little... <G>, And it wasn't MY posting... it was my evil
twin... Randy. <VBG>
Dan Scott
Snip from Andrew
> Probably because some of us spent a great deal of time >working either
for Topspeed and or SV and we / they feel >hurt by what some people say as
it is a personal attack on >what was a good job done by most. I myself
worked for >them on and off for nearly 4 years.
I can see why it may affect you and a very small handfull of other people
who may have worked for TS/SV at one time, understandable. I am talking
about the people who have no business whatsoever defending anything SV does,
they just follow the leader.
As far as the rest of your reply, I think it would more fitting that Ben
answers. I was not involved in the Offense or Defense of SV or TS. I am
happy in my own little Legacy World. I could care less what they do, as long
as they don't break what I got, shit I am still using c5eeB <g>
Dan
"Andrew Ireland" <andrew_...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3bc20e07$1...@news.softvelocity.com...