The modules I need are:
A/P
A/R
G/L
PR
P/O (not required, but would be nice)
Invoicing
Needs to be multi-user and multi-company.
Thanks for any suggestions. BTW, is Gerald Duke out of business, I couldn't
locate anything on him on the net.
Ken Knight
Ken, you might want to check this web page address, I just logged onto
that address with no problems.
Vendor Name - Gerald W Duke and Company, Contact - Gerald Duke
Primary ID - Application Shells, OFFICE Plus
Email Address - gwd...@ix.netcom.com
Internet Link - http://www.gwduke.com/
Dave
--
From Encourager Software - Dave Troxell,
Email - mailto:eso...@worldnet.att.net
Author of Product Scope 32 Bookmarks -
Profile Exchanges - Clarion (TopSpeed), Newsgroup - Email, HTML, PRO
Music USB, and Search Engines
http://www.encouragersoftware.com/
Ken
You may wish to check out KV Enterprise's MAP accounting package at
www.kve.com. Source code is available.
Jim Johnson
Ken Knight wrote in message ...
|Can someone recommend a good Accounting package written in clarion. I need
|this to have source code (like Gerald Dukes).
|
|The modules I need are:
|
|A/P
|A/R
|G/L
|PR
|P/O (not required, but would be nice)
|Invoicing
|
|Needs to be multi-user and multi-company.
|
|Thanks for any suggestions. BTW, is Gerald Duke out of business, I
couldn't
|locate anything on him on the net.
|
|Ken Knight
|
|
|
I had purchased the Payroll module from KV Enterprise a couple of months
ago. Until now, they haven't even give me a program that is complete. All
the source sent by them to be cannot be compile into a complete program at
all.
They promised, promised, promised and finally disappeared. After that, I
have not receive any mail from them. I paid USD399, if I have not recall
wrongly.
My advice, do not purchase until they settle my module.
Thanks.
Kelvin Chua
SINGAPORE
Jim Johnson <jim...@kve.com> wrote in message
news:Rn4v3.584$_l2....@news.flash.net...
nothing against duke.. im point is clarion is not like vb,access where
"established" vendors like ua cyberoffice etc.. offer source code..
we're on our own to have full blown accounting pacakges.. i wish i can
share mine.. hehe.. one of these i will share least the screen images
<g>
I had been selling Accounting Packages since 1988, and I myself is a Master
Degree in Accounting. Just in certain occassion when my lazy bone simply do
not want to work, hoping to pick up some good codes around, just modify it
and maintain it. But I might be wrong...
I did not press K V Enterprise very hard, as I understand the problems of
programming, I love to be a programmer, if only I do not need to meet all
this datelines (deadline??? Dead by then). Everyday, I simply keep my
fingers crossed, hoping that one fine day, they may complete the Payroll
module and send me a copy .
So far, I had experienced and deemed that as far as Clarion is concerned,
there are few vendors which you can trust and believe;
Capesoft
Gitano
Mike Hanson - Just wonder if I had remembered wrongly.
Berthume Software
GAP Development
Linder Software Systems
Sterling Data
The Cowboy
As for other third party developers, I could not comment much as I am yet to
experience using their software. It is certainly no easy to be a software
house, and it is even more difficult to serve software houses. Well...
everyone have their bad days.
I think I am getting old.....<VBG>..
Kelvin Chua
SINGAPORE
cybertrader <cyber...@home.net> wrote in message
news:37BCD73C...@home.net...
You mean you actually cut out all the confusing layouts and screens. I have
looked at Duke's and every CW package with source that I could locate, and
have decided, in my case, to wait for the linking templates for QuickBooks
that are currently under development.
Don Harvey
www.moark.com
cybertrader <cyber...@home.net> wrote in message
news:37BCD73C...@home.net...
> i'm on kevins side.. these guys popped up out of no where and shouldn't
> selling 1/2 *** modules if that is the case..
>
> nothing against duke.. im point is clarion is not like vb,access where
> "established" vendors like ua cyberoffice etc.. offer source code..
>
> we're on our own to have full blown accounting pacakges.. i wish i can
> share mine.. hehe.. one of these i will share least the screen images
> <g>
>
Keeping in mind that all they can ever be is export/import templates.
Im not sure Id want anything else from anyone but Intuit anyhow, and
thats no slight on Mike.
---
Mark Riffey
Granite Bear Development
http://www.granitebear.com
Software for professional photography studios
and non-profit organizations
You are correct of course. Having a degree in business and accounting, and
having kept books for a number of companies, from the old manual ledgers to
computer accounting, I have no desire to delve into all the intricate
relationships of all the ledgers and supporting ledgers.
The only data I desire to export/import is the the invoice/payable data. My
program at the present has a form holding all the information, Bill To, Ship
To, Amount to bill,Carrier, Total to Carrier (the payable) etc.
It would be quite easy to have this app generate the invoice. Next step I
see is to export only this information to an accounting app without typing
it all over again.
Im my case, that is as far as I want to take it. I hate doing accounting
<g>.
Don Harvey
Mark Riffey <m...@granitebear.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00000049.08ea5ef5@mark...
I completely agree. I haven't seen a CW package yet that's up to par.
If you are referring to Mike templates, aren't they just "import" (CW to QB)
templates?
Paul
Don Harvey <moa...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:gOfv3.37$4D2....@typhoon01.swbell.net...
> Cyber,
>
> You mean you actually cut out all the confusing layouts and screens. I
have
> looked at Duke's and every CW package with source that I could locate, and
> have decided, in my case, to wait for the linking templates for QuickBooks
> that are currently under development.
>
The worst thing in my mind (about this at least<g>) is keeping it up to date,
even if it is the most perfect CW accounting on the planet.
Every time GAAP, the IRS or some other fed or state yahoo changes something,
accounting packages have to change. I have my doubts that KV, Duke etc are
capable of keeping up with that. I know Im not.
Yes, I am referring to Mike. I have both QuickBooks and MYOB. MYOB has
been a super accounting package for me and the reason I purchased QuickBooks
was because of its interface with TurboTax.
I haven't had the time to explore QuickBooks, but most of my clients use it
and like it. Should'nt be difficult to switch the accounting over and that
way will be in sync and know exactly what happens with live data.
Don Harvey
Catalyst Systems <sa...@catalyst-systems.com> wrote in message
news:cQiv3.37$2p1....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
I have been away from computers for the last few days and therefore have not
jumped into this fray yet. <g> I want to address the thread as a whole so
this is not meant just for you Don.
I see nothing wrong with Dukes Accounting. However, please note that most
of his stuff is *NOT* accounting. Accounting is G/L *period*. All the rest
is either RECORDKEEPING OR BOOKKEEPING. Some of it is even SALES
MANAGEMENT. And in other cases it is BUSINESS MANAGEMENT of some kind. You
know, those Business Rules they talk about once in a while. Manufacturing,
Warehousing, Services, etc.....
Accounting is the same same same from business to business, although the
"setup" for the Chart Of Accounts usually is different for various
businesses.
You want two ACCOUNTING reports from the G/L, Financial (Position and
Change) Statement and Profit and Loss (Income and Expense - P&L) Statement.
That's it!!! All the rest are bookkeeping, recordkeeping, business and
sales management reports and not accounting reports.
As for recordkeeping and bookkeeping, they can vary all over the place from
business to business and even between two different businesses of the same
"kind". And if you are cheating on your taxes, they are even *more*
different. <g>
So what the inexperienced "business owner and/or developer" says when they
look at someone else's "Accounting Package" is.... "It's no good. Won't
work for my business."
I've heard it a thousand times. <g>
That may very well be true but let's put the blame where it really belongs.
Many times IMHO, the blame belongs with the business owner because they do
not know how to read a financial statement but usually do (but not always
<g>) know to read an income and expense report.
In Dukes case, he has written stuff that is generic enough so that most
anyone *THAT CAN FIGURE OUT HOW* can very easily modify it to do *their
unique job* with minimum difficulty. It probably will not fit "anyone's"
situation when one first get's Duke's stuff BECAUSE it was MEANT to be
modified to fit a unique situation. So in that fashion, Duke's stuff was
"meant" to be "incomplete" and the developer needs to be savvy enough to
*make* it complete. In many cases that's a really easy job. <grinnnnn>
Someone talked about changing screens. Hey.... I don't like some of his
screens either, but if you get 50 developers doing it you are going to get
50 different screen layouts.
However, if all one wants is a very generic system, Dukes stuff will work
just fine the way it is. <grinnnnnn>
But then, one needs to know how to setup the chart of accounts. <g>
Another thing that crops up in my mind about now is that this thread proves
a point I made elsewhere about the difference between Developers,
Programmers and Coders.
IMHO, a Developer will take Dukes stuff and go to town with it. A
Programmer will usually say what's being said in this thread. A (tricky)
Coder will refuse to even look at it because he/she will want to do their
own tricky code version. <grinnnn>
So I say to Ken Knight, go for Dukes stuff and if you have questions, what
the hey, ask me privately if you want. You will also learn how to write
apps using Clarion without 3rd party addin's.
and my .02 too...
HTH some
--
----------
Health, happiness, prosperity.
Earl
www.kwiksystems.com
k...@revealed.net
Don Harvey <moa...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:Ujkv3.136$4D2....@typhoon01.swbell.net...
u da man!
I agree with most (or maybe all<g>) of what you said, Earl. What I dont
have time to deal with is keeping track of changes in GAAP, etc. Thats
the best reason to integrate with something.
> I agree with most (or maybe all<g>) of what you said, Earl. What I dont
> have time to deal with is keeping track of changes in GAAP, etc. Thats
> the best reason to integrate with something.
That is done in the setup of the chart of accounts and needs to be dealt
with by the businesses Accountant on an individual basis. Accounting is
accounting is accounting so it makes no difference what "GAAP system" is
used and the difference is in how one uses the system. If the tax laws
change, you change the chart of accounts and the way they are used in making
the P&L and Income Statement to fit the new tax law change.
Regards,
Earl
I agree to a point. All accounting starts from the very basic equation of
Asset = Liability + Capital (except in the case of government). From that
point on it can get as sophiscated as one wants it to be.
If I just needed to develop accounting for this business, the source from
Duke and others may well be a good place to start. But I am not. This app
is sold to mainly smaller brokers with revenue between 1 and 3 million.
What about keeping up with tax tables for 48 states? Generating a myriad of
reports for the government. All this comes into play no matter the term
accounting, record keeping, bookkeeping, etc.
MYOB, Peach Tree, QuickBooks all do an excellent job. The problem, as you
most correctly stated, lies with the business owner that does not understand
the basics of accounting.
For example, I get calls all the time from these small brokerages that
invariably tell me "Well, MYOB or whatever won't work here because we have
to bill Number of Miles X Rate Per Mile, and we have to bill Extra Drops,
Layover, Tarp Charges, Fuel Surcharges, etc. and these packages insist on
selling products and keeping inventory."
And I reply, oh really, have you every thought about going into inventory
and set up a non inventoried item to sell and name one Miles, give a
description Product delivered per attached B/L. Set another item named
Layover and so forth.
And the reply always is, "Oh, I never thought about that". A basic flaw of
not thinking and using a nifty little accounting package to the best
possible advantage.
So, no thanks to developing accounting <g> I will stick with the big boys
that always have current tax tables, etc. and "think" about how to link
just a few items to avoid duplicate keying of information.
Mike, hurry up with those templates <g>.
Don Harvey
Mike Hanson of BoxSoft. He is in the process of developing links for
QuickBooks.
Don
Earl R. Coker <k...@revealed.net> wrote in message
news:37be...@news.x-gen.com...
> Hi Don,
>
> <moa...@swbell.net> wrote in message
> news:qJyv3.1775$4D2....@typhoon01.swbell.net...
> > Hi Earl,
> >
> > I agree to a point. All accounting starts from the very basic equation
of
> > Asset = Liability + Capital (except in the case of government). From
that
> > point on it can get as sophiscated as one wants it to be.
>
> That's true and the Income Statement one is P=I-E or
Profit=Income-Expense.
> Really simple stuff *until* you start setting up the chart of accounts to
> deal with it. Someone with the knowledge/training needs to do it and
most
> small business owners do not fit that description.
>
> > If I just needed to develop accounting for this business, the source
from
> > Duke and others may well be a good place to start. But I am not. This
> app
> > is sold to mainly smaller brokers with revenue between 1 and 3 million.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > What about keeping up with tax tables for 48 states? Generating a
myriad
> of
> > reports for the government. All this comes into play no matter the term
> > accounting, record keeping, bookkeeping, etc.
>
> You must be talking about payroll. The user keys in information
*directly*
> from the tax book into the app. It's a "monkey see monkey do" type of
> operation. Otherwise for the chart of accounts, someone that knows the
tax
> rules must set it up. And they don't change those rules a lot. Most of
the
> rule "changes" are considered *only* when the tax preparer is filling out
> the tax form, but not always.
>
> > MYOB, Peach Tree, QuickBooks all do an excellent job. The problem, as
you
> > most correctly stated, lies with the business owner that does not
> understand
> > the basics of accounting.
> >
> > For example, I get calls all the time from these small brokerages that
> > invariably tell me "Well, MYOB or whatever won't work here because we
have
> > to bill Number of Miles X Rate Per Mile, and we have to bill Extra
Drops,
> > Layover, Tarp Charges, Fuel Surcharges, etc. and these packages insist
on
> > selling products and keeping inventory."
>
> I've heard that one a thousand times too. <g>
>
> > And I reply, oh really, have you every thought about going into
inventory
> > and set up a non inventoried item to sell and name one Miles, give a
> > description Product delivered per attached B/L. Set another item named
> > Layover and so forth.
> >
> > And the reply always is, "Oh, I never thought about that". A basic flaw
> of
> > not thinking and using a nifty little accounting package to the best
> > possible advantage.
>
> I've also heard this one that thousand times too. One gets kind of tired
of
> hearing it after a while.
>
> I think it comes from the fact that to open a successful business in
> America, all one needs is the willingness to work hard and for long hours.
> You can hire all of the "skilled stuff" done for you, like accounting,
> legal, advertising, etc.... (If you can afford it!!)
>
> > So, no thanks to developing accounting <g> I will stick with the big
boys
> > that always have current tax tables, etc. and "think" about how to link
> > just a few items to avoid duplicate keying of information.
>
> To each their own.... Different strokes for different folks and all of
> that. <g>
>
> > Mike, hurry up with those templates <g>.
>
> Who is Mike and what templates.
True, but neither myself nor my clients are coherent enough to do this for
them each year (and I dont have time to do it). The last thing I want to issue
is individualized accounting advice. While this sounds stupid (I think it
does), many people substitute "QuickBooks" for "my accountant". You know what
happens then.
If the accounting code is "mine", then they expect accounting answers from me.
This has been proven historically in this clientele. Its not right, but its
what happens. I deal with clients whose annual revenue is anywhere from 50k to
10MM. I dont get accounting advice hassles from the big guys, of course (they
just want integration). I get them from the little ones. They want to know
what the difference is between cash and accrual. Why they should be accrual
instead of cash (because 99% of them take deposits MONTHS in advance) and so
on. Not my job to be their accountant, especially for free<g>
Someday, I intend to have a CPA on staff to provide a turnkey solution like
these people need (but not for free). That someday is not today<g>
Speaking of that, I just found the first reasonably priced sales tax table Ive
ever seen. Not sure what level of detail it goes to. I believe it was at
envelopemanager.com.
-- Craig (The Data Ferret)
Using Virtual Access 4.52 build 277 (32-bit) in Win98
CPD 2.1 / CDD 3.x / C5EE&IC
CPCS CCS CLACom WinEvent CWA
JANUS/Ada 83 95 CLAW
"Do not meddle in the affairs of FERRETS...."
I use RAD accounts I believe you can now get it from Mitten software only
extra template used is PDLookup which comes with it and you get all the
source.
(mittensoftware.com I think)
--
Regards
Laurence Cope
Publishing Software Company
pub...@propnet.dircon.co.uk
Tel: 01299 826030 Fax: 01299 822271
Ken Knight <tech...@bellsouth.net> wrote in article
<VKVu3.1083$vk....@news3.mia>...
Thanks one of those adjustments between book income and taxable income.<g>
Paul
Craig E. Ransom <dataf...@annapolis.net> wrote in message
news:VA.00000044.00bf5a74@dataferret...
This is not true. I've been developing and maintaining accounting systems
for years. I maintain systems for CPAs, public companies and others.
Sometimes, a change in GAAP will require the presentation of a report to
change.
If you hard code your financial statements (which all the CW ones I've seen
do) then yes, it's a pain to maintain.
I don't hardcode reports. The last major change in reporting was regarding
the statement of cash flows which required adding some capabilities to the
financial statement processors.
Paul
Mark Riffey <m...@granitebear.com> wrote in message
news:VA.0000004b.0920b07f@mark...
Earl R. Coker <k...@revealed.net> wrote in message
news:37be...@news.x-gen.com...
> I see nothing wrong with Dukes Accounting. However, please note that most
> of his stuff is *NOT* accounting. Accounting is G/L *period*. All the
rest
> is either RECORDKEEPING OR BOOKKEEPING. Some of it is even SALES
Hmmm. When I took the CPA exam they sure had alot a bookkeeping on it
then.<g>
I see what you are trying to say (I think) and that is.......
In reality there is only the G/L. They rest are SUBLEDGERS intended to
summarize activity for the General Ledger. Every entry made in a subledger
affects the G/L. When an entry is made to record a sale and it records an
increase in a/r, sales tax payable, reduced WIP or determines COGS according
to a GAAP method, it's accounting. It may be automated, but it's
accounting.
> So what the inexperienced "business owner and/or developer" says when they
> look at someone else's "Accounting Package" is.... "It's no good. Won't
> work for my business."
I guess this is directed at my previous comments about Duke/Rad/Kve not
being up to par.
My "inexperience" (Degree in accounting, Public Practice for 10 years,
private practice for 10, 15 years of maintaining and modifying accounting
systems for CPA, F100s, etc) tells me that the underlying structure design
is not open enough to handle a wide variety of situations I would need to
make it a good investment of my time.
> I've heard it a thousand times. <g>
But have you really listened?
> Another thing that crops up in my mind about now is that this thread
proves
> a point I made elsewhere about the difference between Developers,
> Programmers and Coders.
>
> IMHO, a Developer will take Dukes stuff and go to town with it. A
> Programmer will usually say what's being said in this thread. A (tricky)
> Coder will refuse to even look at it because he/she will want to do their
> own tricky code version. <grinnnn>
Well I think you have the Developer and Programmer mixed up.
Developers usually evaluate things before they include them in a project.
I know you use Duke's stuff for your own products. It may work for you in
your vertical.
My perspective is bent because of my background.
My reporting requirements are probably much more complex.
None of the packages I've seen to date are up to MY par in what I expect in
an accounting system.
Paul
I do not know accounting, as one man's meal is another man poison.
As far as I know, accounting is very very basic, it is simply debits and
credits, 50 vs 50, nothing much simpler than this. But... the operational
part is the headache..
Just think that it is never prudent to compare apples and oranges, no doubt
that they are both fruits..
Thanks.
Kelvin Chua
SINGAPORE
Catalyst Systems <sa...@catalyst-systems.com> wrote in message
news:8KOv3.72$h3....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Thats the kind of stuff Im talking about. I dont have the time to monitor the
accounting trades or Federal Register or whatever you monitor to keep a
handle on this sort of thing. The code changes are probably the smallest
amount of time compared to that.
So what do YOU recommend? My clients are either on QuickBooks, Solomon or
Mas90, for the most part. Customers dont like changing accounting software. I
dont plan to ask them to, so we integrate.
Some questions:
1) What do you use for an accounting/bookeeping package?
2) What ---exactly--- is not open enough in structure in what you have seen?
3) What is the base package of design/features that you are using for
comparison?
4) What is your basic design criteria and set of features for an accounting
package?
5) What ---specific--- industries are you dealing with in the customized
parts?
6) What size (in revenue) are the individual companies you are dealing with?
7) Would you create a basic design DCT with all the necessary file
structures and post here?
8) Would you consider selling your accounting package as an accounting
shell?
Thanks in Advance for your response,
Roberto Artigas Jr
>Earl,
>
>Earl R. Coker <k...@revealed.net> wrote in message
>news:37be...@news.x-gen.com...
>> I see nothing wrong with Dukes Accounting. However, please note that most
>> of his stuff is *NOT* accounting. Accounting is G/L *period*. All the
>rest
>> is either RECORDKEEPING OR BOOKKEEPING. Some of it is even SALES
>
>Hmmm. When I took the CPA exam they sure had alot a bookkeeping on it
>then.<g>
>
>I see what you are trying to say (I think) and that is.......
>
>In reality there is only the G/L. They rest are SUBLEDGERS intended to
>summarize activity for the General Ledger. Every entry made in a subledger
>affects the G/L. When an entry is made to record a sale and it records an
>increase in a/r, sales tax payable, reduced WIP or determines COGS according
>to a GAAP method, it's accounting. It may be automated, but it's
>accounting.
Surely SUBLEDGERS don't summarize activity from the General Ledger?
They record the detail & only the summary goes into the General Ledger?
What was called bookkeeping above is simply using separate sub systems
to hold in more detail, & with more ability to interrogate, but essentially the
same information.
Excuse my limited knowledge of american terminology, but the Accounts
Payable sub system is merely a detailed database of what is held in
the General ledger Account called Accounts Payable Control Account.
Ditto for Accounts Receivable, Inventory, Payroll etc. All of these sub
systems hold info that definitely is part of your General Ledger, just in
more detail.
>I know you use Duke's stuff for your own products. It may work for you in
>your vertical.
>
>My perspective is bent because of my background.
>My reporting requirements are probably much more complex.
>None of the packages I've seen to date are up to MY par in what I expect in
>an accounting system.
Packages like MYOB etc are great for small business's or non accounting
people. My personal favorite is Accpac from Computer Associates. Not
easy to come to grips with, and expensive, but never not been able to
achieve what I wanted to using it. The crappiest big system I have used
is SAP. Like MS, the worst systems often become the most popular.
Thanks
--
Roger Dilling
Dilling Technical Services, Inc
www.tmmp.com
rdil...@innova.net
Earl R. Coker <k...@revealed.net> wrote in message
news:37bf...@news.x-gen.com...
--
Roger Dilling
Dilling Technical Services, Inc
www.tmmp.com
rdil...@innova.net
Mark Riffey <m...@granitebear.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00000059.29ac4b06@mark...
> In article <rsbkt7...@corp.supernews.com>, Roger Dilling wrote:
> > I am very
> > interested in finding an interface to Quick Books to get away from
> > export/import.
> Ive tried to contact them several times. They pretend like we dont
> exist. I am returning the favor in due time<g>
> ---
> Mark Riffey
> Granite Bear Development
> http://www.granitebear.com
>
> Software for professional photography studios
> and non-profit organizations
>
Funny you should mention that, I got exactly the same treatment, and then
they wanted to charge me for tech support when I pointed out some serious
errors in their documentation on export/import
Thanks,
Roger
>Hi, have you been successful in writing directly to the pastel data files? Is
>is a major mission to accomplish?
>
>In article <37c287a5...@news.saix.net>, jo...@jvz.co.za wrote:
>>Hi
>>check out
>>http://www.pastel.com
>>for Pastel Partner Accounting
>>You can download a fully functional demo with its only restriction
>>that you are limited to 800 transactions.
>>Also download the 3rd party developers toolkit which allows you to
>>talk directly with its data using Clarion.
>>Regards
>>Johan van Zyl
>>greetings from Johan van Zyl
>>Somerset West
>>South Africa
>>jo...@jvz.co.za
>>Clarion 5ee, FM2
>>Customised Software
greetings from Johan van Zyl
Somerset West
South Africa
jo...@jvz.co.za
Clarion 5ee, FM2
Customised Software