[OT] MSC

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Duilio Foschi

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Aug 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/12/00
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I need old MSC v.6.01a. Where can I find it ?

Thank you

Duilio Foschi

Gregory Pietsch

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Aug 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/12/00
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<OT>

This compiler is proprietary to Microsoft, so I doubt that it's on the
Web. Probably http://www.microsoft.com is a good address, if Microsoft
even bothers to put their old compilers on their website. Otherwise,
consider another compiler. Someone has a big list of free C compilers;
it gets posted every once in a while on this list.

</OT>

Later, Gregory Pietsch

an.rei

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Aug 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/12/00
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Hallo Duilio,

I have MSC 6.0.
If you have something to compile send me,
I can do.

Regards Andreas

Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
3995b202...@news.tiscalinet.it...

Mark McIntyre

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:23:01 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
wrote:

>I need old MSC v.6.01a. Where can I find it ?

1) this is offtopic here
2) MSC 6 is a commercial product. The best place to buy it would be
either from microsoft, or from a software vendor.
3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
auction sites etc.


--
Mark McIntyre
C- FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html

Duilio Foschi

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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Mark,

>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>auction sites etc.

can you suggest a site ?

Thank you

Duilio

Kaz Kylheku

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> wrote:
>Mark,
>
>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>auction sites etc.
>
>can you suggest a site ?

Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.

lillo

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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>Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.

VERY funny.

What's the problem?

I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.

Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?

Regards

Duilio

Nils Goesche

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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ded...@yifan.net (lillo) writes:

(No, not the first sentence. That was in fact written by Kaz
Kylheku. Learn to quote)

> >Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
>
> VERY funny.

It's not meant to be funny.

> What's the problem?
>
> I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.

If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
not ask somewhere where it's topical??

> Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?

Now who is being VERY funny here?
--
Nils Goesche
Ask not for whom the <CONTROL-G> tolls.

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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lillo wrote:
>
> >Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
>
> VERY funny.

I fail to see what's so amusing. Kaz was perfectly serious.

>
> What's the problem?
>
> I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.

In other words, you knew it was off-topic and you posted it anyway.

>
> Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?

Why did you post the message, when you knew it was off-topic?

--

Richard Heathfield

"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.

C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
65 K&R Answers: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton/kandr2/index.html (32
to go)

Mark McIntyre

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
wrote:

>Mark,
>
>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>auction sites etc.
>
>can you suggest a site ?

Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
the web, its searchable...

Kaz Kylheku

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Aug 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/13/00
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>wrote:
>
>>Mark,
>>
>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>>auction sites etc.
>>
>>can you suggest a site ?
>
>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>the web, its searchable...

CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)

Chris Mears

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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No, no, Kaz, you have to mispell all the other words too. They'd
never get "suggest" or "engine" right. :)


Richard Heathfield

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Mark,
> >>
> >>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
> >>>auction sites etc.
> >>
> >>can you suggest a site ?
> >
> >Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
> >the web, its searchable...
>
> CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)

Thomas the Tank Engine?

386sx

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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lillo <ded...@yifan.net> says:

>I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.

[OT]
This one's good and it really *is* fast:
http://www.ussc.alltheweb.com/
[/OT]

Don't ever try to access the non-value of a NULL pointer.

[OT]
This one's pretty good:
http://search.msn.com/
[/OT]

Always remember to free() your malloc().

[OT]
This one seems to be a favorite around here:
http://www.yahoo.com/
[/OT]

There. I regularly stated [OT] in the article.

--

http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
The comp.lang.c FAQ


AndrewJ

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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>> >Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>> >the web, its searchable...
>>
>> CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
>
>Thomas the Tank Engine?

ROTFLMAO. ;)

-------
AndrewJ

"This is a wonderful answer. It's off-topic, it's incorrect, and it doesn't
answer the question." - Richard Heathfield.

Joona I Palaste

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:
: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>

: wrote:
:>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
:>wrote:
:>
:>>Mark,
:>>
:>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
:>>>auction sites etc.
:>>
:>>can you suggest a site ?
:>
:>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
:>the web, its searchable...

: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)

Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
such as the Anaconda.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/

"It sure is cool having money and chicks."
- Beavis and Butt-head

Brendan Sechter

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:21:42 GMT,
Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> wrote:

>>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of

^^^^^^^^
>>the web, its searchable...

>CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)

He did.

--
With the amount of idiots in this world....I'll have a fun time filtering
out the defects =P -Khilent

Lew Pitcher

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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On 14 Aug 2000 13:58:41 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
wrote:

>Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:
>: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
>: wrote:
>:>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>:>wrote:
>:>
>:>>Mark,
>:>>
>:>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>:>>>auction sites etc.
>:>>
>:>>can you suggest a site ?
>:>

>:>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>:>the web, its searchable...


>
>: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
>

>Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
>such as the Anaconda.

But, you need a Langston field generator to protect it. I'd recommend
a Puppetteer General Class 3 hull equipped with a KK drive (from two
universes over) instead. <g>


Lew Pitcher
Information Technology Consultant
Toronto Dominion Bank Financial Group

(Lew_P...@tdgroup.com)


(Opinions expressed are my own, not my employer's.)

Mark McIntyre

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:21:42 GMT, k...@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz
Kylheku) wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Mark,
>>>
>>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>>>auction sites etc.
>>>
>>>can you suggest a site ?
>>
>>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>>the web, its searchable...
>
>CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)

Troll ye not.
Yahoo turned up 28,800 references to regular expression "Microsoft C
6". Surely one of them is relevant?

Mark McIntyre

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Aug 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/14/00
to
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:35:46 GMT, Lew_P...@tdgroup.com (Lew
Pitcher) wrote:

>On 14 Aug 2000 13:58:41 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
>wrote:
>
>>Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:

>>: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:57:49 +0100, Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk>


>>: wrote:
>>:>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:21:07 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
>>:>wrote:
>>:>
>>:>>Mark,
>>:>>
>>:>>>3) Failing that, a web search might turn up some copies for sale on
>>:>>>auction sites etc.
>>:>>
>>:>>can you suggest a site ?
>>:>
>>:>Try a WEBSEARCH using your favorite search engine. Thats the joy of
>>:>the web, its searchable...
>>
>>: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)
>>

>>Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
>>such as the Anaconda.
>
>But, you need a Langston field generator to protect it. I'd recommend
>a Puppetteer General Class 3 hull equipped with a KK drive (from two
>universes over) instead. <g>

Stop it, my sides hurt already.... :->

Joona I Palaste

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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Mark McIntyre <ma...@garthorn.demon.co.uk> scribbled the following:
: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:35:46 GMT, Lew_P...@tdgroup.com (Lew
: Pitcher) wrote:

:>On 14 Aug 2000 13:58:41 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
:>wrote:
:>
:>>Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net> scribbled the following:

:>>: CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)


:>>
:>>Buy the Class 7 hyperdrive. It works wonders on the lighter freighters,
:>>such as the Anaconda.
:>
:>But, you need a Langston field generator to protect it. I'd recommend
:>a Puppetteer General Class 3 hull equipped with a KK drive (from two
:>universes over) instead. <g>

: Stop it, my sides hurt already.... :->

For that, add about 16 or 20 shield generators. Should damage still
get through, you can't go wrong with a Hull Auto-Repair System
(providing you have a reasonably large ship though).

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/

"Stronger, no. More seductive, cunning, crunchier the Dark Side is."
- Mika P. Nieminen

Richard Bos

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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ded...@yifan.net (lillo) wrote:

> >Go back to Mark's article and re-read point 1) until you understand it.
>
> VERY funny.
>

> What's the problem?

>
> I regularly stated [OT] in the subject.
>

> Why did you read the message if you didn't want to ?

*sigh* I keep having to repost this:

"I asked my greengrocer for a pound of beef. I even mentioned that I
knew I was in the wrong shop. Why didn't I get my beef? And why is my
greengrocer now mad at me?"

Richard

Duilio Foschi

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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>If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
>not ask somewhere where it's topical??

in all NGs one can write OT subjects.

The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.

Is this NG an exception ?

Duilio

Duilio Foschi

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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>I fail to see what's so amusing. Kaz was perfectly serious.

I was afraid of that :)

>In other words, you knew it was off-topic and you posted it anyway.

you will be happy to know that thanks to my OT message, I solved my
problem.

Did you notice how much useless bandwidth you added just to point out
that my OT message was OT ?

Duilio


Duilio Foschi

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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>CAN U SUGGEST A ENGINE? :)

it seems that you have a lot of free time (as I do, of course).

But you don't post OT messages, do you ? :)

Duilio

Gergo Barany

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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Well, this newsgroup is certainly something very special. We adhere
to standards, for instance. Could you maybe quote the document that
backs up the statements I quoted?

Gergo

--
If a 6600 used paper tape instead of core memory, it would use up tape
at about 30 miles/second.
-- Grishman, Assembly Language Programming

Kaz Kylheku

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 06:18:32 GMT, Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> wrote:
>>If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
>>not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
>in all NGs one can write OT subjects.

False. In most newsgroups, one should respect the topic.

>The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.

The requirement is that you read the FAQ, read the newsgroup for a while before
starting to post, and try to remain on topic. You should also read the
recurring postings in news.announce.newusers to learn more about Usenet itself.

There is no special provision for posting whatever crap you want so long
as you have [OT] in the subject line. This is the first time I have heard
of this idea in some 11 years of reading Usenet.

From time to time people use prefixes like OT: in the subject lines of
followups to warn that the thread is drifting off topic. This annotation is a
mere courtesy to the readers, not a license to initiate crap.

Most newsgroups tolerate some degree of off topic banter from the regular
contributors, some more than others. However, it is not all that well tolerated
when coming from newcomers whose brief history consists of nothing but
off topic postings.

Writing topical, quality postings is like depositing pennies into a bank.
Going off topic is like withdrawing dollars. When the newsgroup senses
that you are in debt, you get treated like a parasite. It's not much different
from any other social structure.

A newsgroup is a bit like a sports club, for instance, a tennis club. At a
tennis club, one does not only play tennis. One also socializes. However, if,
upon joining a tennis club, you waltz onto the courts wielding a hockey stick,
you will be looked upon as an irritating nutcase. Now after a lengthy
membership, you could get away with doing that and be looked upon as a
comedian, so long as you don't make it a regular habit. Then you are back to
irritating nut. The underlying theme of the club is the particular game;
every serious member plays that game on nearly each visit, and does not
disrupt others who have come to do the same.

--
Any hyperlinks appearing in this article were inserted by the unscrupulous
operators of a Usenet-to-web gateway, without obtaining the proper permission
of the author, who does not endorse any of the linked-to products or services.

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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Duilio Foschi wrote:
>
> >If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
> >not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
> in all NGs one can write OT subjects.

In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself. That doesn't mean
it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".

>
> The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.

Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap. BTW it seems you
could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.

>
> Is this NG an exception ?

This newsgroup discusses the C programming language. If you want to talk
about something else, go somewhere else. If you want to talk about C,
this is the place to do it.

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/15/00
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Duilio Foschi wrote:
>
> >I fail to see what's so amusing. Kaz was perfectly serious.
>
> I was afraid of that :)
>
> >In other words, you knew it was off-topic and you posted it anyway.
>
> you will be happy to know that thanks to my OT message, I solved my
> problem.

This statement is incorrect.

>
> Did you notice how much useless bandwidth you added just to point out
> that my OT message was OT ?

I noticed how much useless bandwidth you generated by commencing an
off-topic post. Off-topic posters are morally responsible for the
resources expended in dissuading them from doing so again in the future.
In other words, you're right that resources were wasted, and it's *your*
fault. Don't do it again.

Duilio Foschi

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
>Could you maybe quote the document that
>backs up the statements I quoted?

I don't get this.

Could you please explain ?

Thank you

Duilio

Duilio Foschi

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
>In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself.

I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
this exact moment :)

>That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".

where do you take the moral authority to state what one "may" or
"should" ? :)

>Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.

what is that ?

Could you explain ?

>BTW it seems you could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.

English is not my native language. Which foreign languages do you know
? We may find a better language to continue our discussion.

Regards

Duilio

Duilio Foschi

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
Richard,

>In other words, you're right that resources were wasted, and it's *your*
>fault. Don't do it again.

"your fault" ? childish.

I am guilty at the same extent as the number of druids who politely
showed me the exit door :)

Lenny Bruce wrote a very funny book whose title was (more or less)
"how to speak dirty and impress people".

Lenny was brought to court because he had used the word "c****s*****"
in one of his shows.

The prosecutor said <Your Honour, this man used the word
"c****s*****"!>

The judge said <What! Did you really use the word "c****s*****"?>

and so on...

Regards

Duilio

Gunnar Andersson

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
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On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Duilio Foschi wrote:

> >Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
>
> what is that ?

Internet netiquette guidelines, copies are all over the Internet, e.g.
http://www.tamucc.edu/~compserv/polocies/rfc1855.html (thanks AltaVista).

You may even be able to find it in your native language, the first hit
reported by AltaVista was a translation into Japanese...

/ Gunnar

Richard Bos

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
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ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi) wrote:

> >If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
> >not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
> in all NGs one can write OT subjects.

Balderdash. One _can_ write anything anywhere, yes; but one is supposed
to keep to the topic everywhere I know, even in NGs where the topic is
extremely wide.

> The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.

Doing so marks one as an anti-social jerk, who is more interested in
getting his own way than in keeping the newsgroup working.

> Is this NG an exception ?

No, it isn't. This NG, like all, tries to keep on-topic. That's what
"topic" is for.

Richard

Gergo Barany

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
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Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> wrote:
> >Could you maybe quote the document that
> >backs up the statements I quoted?
>
> I don't get this.
>
> Could you please explain ?

You said that one can write off-topic articles as long as the
subject line says "OT". Why do you think so?

Gergo

--
It took me fifteen years to discover that I had no talent for writing,
but I couldn't give it up because by that time I was too famous.
-- Robert Benchley

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
Duilio Foschi wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> >In other words, you're right that resources were wasted, and it's *your*
> >fault. Don't do it again.
>
> "your fault" ? childish.

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
partake in that community.

>
> I am guilty at the same extent as the number of druids who politely
> showed me the exit door :)

No, much more so. Topicality discussions are always topical (by
convention in comp.lang.c), so the "druids" you mention are on-topic.
You were not (although, oddly, you are now!).

Those who get most out of comp.lang.c are those who observe its
conventions.


<snip irrelevancy>

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
Duilio Foschi wrote:
>
> >In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself.
>
> I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
> this exact moment :)

When you're in a hole, you should stop digging.

>
> >That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".
>
> where do you take the moral authority to state what one "may" or
> "should" ? :)

I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.

And have you noticed that all the other respondents are giving you the
same message I am, and (IIRC) nobody has leapt gallantly to your
defence? There's a reason for that.

>
> >Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
>
> what is that ?
>

> Could you explain ?

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html

>
> >BTW it seems you could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.
>
> English is not my native language. Which foreign languages do you know
> ? We may find a better language to continue our discussion.

Let's try C.

386sx

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
Richard Heathfield <bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> says:

>That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
>that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
>to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
>partake in that community.

It might be wise, but it's not mandatory.

>Duilio Foschi wrote:
>>
>> I am guilty at the same extent as the number of druids who politely
>> showed me the exit door :)

No one can show you something that does not exist. You are the one who
decides whether to exit or not.

Mark McIntyre

unread,
Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> wrote:
> >If you know it's off-topic, why post here in the first place and
> >not ask somewhere where it's topical??
>
> in all NGs one can write OT subjects.

Of course one can write offtopic questions. The point is, will they be
welcome? The answer is very definitely NO in most newsgroups. Most
have charters which say so. This group is one of the oldest, and
consequently has no charter, just the accepted rules. You broke one..

> The only requirement is to state [OT] in the subject, what I did.

Simply putting OT in the subject is like walking into a bakers and
saying "I know you don't sell car parts, but can I have a spark plug
please". You know in advance you're in the wrong place but you still
ask - thats just stupid. What kind of silly person would do that?

> Is this NG an exception ?

No, far from it. Most groups encourage topicality.

Mark McIntyre

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:39:20 GMT, ded...@yifan.net (Duilio Foschi)
wrote:

>>In all newsgroups, one can make an idiot of oneself.
>
>I hope that you have humor enough to see that this may apply to you in
>this exact moment :)

Now you're being an ass. Go read the "read this first, newbies"
message when Billy Chambless posts it next, and also learn the meaning
of the word *plonk*. And then consider the likely effect of continuing
to annoy the group gurus.

>>That doesn't mean it's a good idea. And "can" is not the same as "may" or "should".
>
>where do you take the moral authority to state what one "may" or
>"should" ? :)

Richard is one of the more respected people here, and frequently posts
clueful answers, so in a sense he's in a strong position to make
suggestions. But even if that were not so, he's not taking moral
authority, the group is. Stop it.

>>Go read RFC1855 instead of writing this kind of crap.
>
>what is that ?

Why not read it and find out? Your ISP should have an archive of RFCs,
and if not a websearch will quickly turn this one up, I promise you.

>>BTW it seems you could profit from lurking in alt.english.usage for a while.
>
>English is not my native language. Which foreign languages do you know
>? We may find a better language to continue our discussion.

Richard was a little rude there. He should not have been but sometimes
people ask too many silly questions.

Richard Heathfield

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00
to
386sx wrote:
>
> Richard Heathfield <bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> says:
>
> >That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to consider
> >that topicality is valued very highly by this newsgroup, and it is wise
> >to consider the opinions of the majority of a community if you wish to
> >partake in that community.

s/partake/participate/ (oops!)

>
> It might be wise, but it's not mandatory.

This is perfectly correct. In the same way, it's wise, but not
mandatory, to refrain from wearing a blue scarf at the Stretford End on
a Saturday afternoon.

(Most British subscribers will know exactly what I mean.)

386sx

unread,
Aug 16, 2000, 11:42:31 PM8/16/00
to
Richard Heathfield <bin...@eton.powernet.co.uk> says:

[...]

>...it's wise, but not


>mandatory, to refrain from wearing a blue scarf at the Stretford End on
>a Saturday afternoon.
>
>(Most British subscribers will know exactly what I mean.)

I believe that in America that would be equivalent to wearing a black and
gold cap in the Dog Pound.

Duilio Foschi

unread,
Aug 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/17/00
to
Gergo,

>You said that one can write off-topic articles as long as the
>subject line says "OT". Why do you think so?

usually you download thread subjects first and the message body when
and if you feel interested in the subject.

If you read "OT" and you are interested in kosher messages only, you
skip the message.

The bandwidth penalty is trivial.

I use "Free Agent" to read NGs and it has no filter. But I guess that
better OLRs can filter out unwanted subjects, too.

In this case, the bandwidth penalty is zero.

I read many NGs, and nowhere I have seen this fury against OT
messages.

Regards

Duilio

Duilio Foschi

unread,
Aug 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/17/00
to
>This group is one of the oldest, and
>consequently has no charter, just the accepted rules. You broke one..

this group has a charter and I duly read it before writing my
deprecated OT message. The charter does not forbid OT messages.
I enclose the charter text for your convenience.

>What kind of silly person would do that?

come on. Things are not as you describe them.

I needed to reach C programmers, and this was the right forum.
I was so right in my choice that - as a result of my OT message - what
I was looking for is now happily installed in my PC.

Still, as I try to be a correct NG user, I placed a big [OT] in the
message subject, so that most users could easily skip it.

I think that the religious fury with which I was shown the exit door
is exaggerated and a dangerous sign of intolerance.

Regards

Duilio


<charter follows>

Welcome to comp.lang.c!

This post is intended to give the new reader an introduction to
reading
and posting in this newsgroup. We respectfully request that you read
all the way through this post, as it helps make for a more pleasant
and useful group for everyone.

First of all, please keep in mind that comp.lang.c is a group for
discussion
of general issues of the C programming language, as defined by the
ANSI/ISO
language standard. If you have a problem that is specific to a
particular
system or compiler, you are much more likely to get complete and
accurate
answers in a group that specializes in your platform. Some common
ones are:

Languages and Programming
-------------------------
comp.lang.c++ The C++ Programming Language
comp.lang.asm.x86 x86 assembly language
programming
comp.programming Non-language specific
programming
comp.graphics.algorithms Issues of computer graphics

Compilers
---------
gnu.gcc The gcc free C compiler
comp.os.msdos.djgpp MS-DOS version of the free gcc
C compiler

Operating Systems
-----------------
comp.os.msdos.programmer DOS, BIOS, Memory Models,
interrupts,
screen handling, hardware
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc MS/Windows: Mice, DLLs,
hardware
comp.os.os2.programmer.misc OS/2 Programming
comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Macintosh Programming
comp.unix.programmer General Unix: processes, pipes,
POSIX,
curses, sockets
comp.unix.[vendor] Various Unix vendors

The FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) list has a wealth of information
for
both the new and veteran C programmer. No matter what your experience
level, you are encouraged to read the entire list, if only to
familiarize
yourself with what answers are available to minimize redundant
replies.
The list may be ftp'd from rtfm.mit.edu, or an online version is
available
at <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>. A handy list of
subjects
with HTML links is available at the end of this post.

If the FAQ list does not help, then many regular readers of this group
are happy to assist with problems of standard C. We have only a few
requests that we ask be adhered to, for the benefit of all:

* Please put a short summary in the subject line. Descriptions such
as
"HELP!!!!!!" are not helpful, and many regular posters ignore such
requests. A good example is, "Problem with pointers and arrays."

* State the question or the problem clearly and concisely. Describe
what
you are trying to do, and the problem you are running into. Include
all
relevant error messages.

* Include the smallest, complete and compilable program that exhibits
your
problem. As a rule, posters in comp.lang.c will not do homework,
but will
give helpful hints if you have shown some willingness to try a
solution.

* comp.lang.c is forum for discussion, and as such some regular
posters do
not give E-mail replies. Very often follow-ups to postings have
corrections,
so plan on taking part in the discussion if you post a question. If
you
do receieve e-mail replies, it is considered polite to post a
summary.

A note on comp.lang.c etiquette: Accuracy is valued very highly in
this
newsgroup; therefore posts are frequently corrected, sometimes perhaps
too harshly, and often to the annoyance of new posters who consider
the
correction trivial. Do not take it personally; the best way to fit in
with comp.lang.c is to express gratitude for the correction, move on,
and be more careful next time.

This is a very busy group, so these requests are designed to make it
as
pleasant and efficient an experience as possible. We hope it proves
a valuable commodity to you.

Feedback on this post is always welcome. Please send it to

Billy Chambless Tim Behrendsen
bi...@cast.msstate.edu t...@a-sis.com

------ OTHER RESOURCES

In addition to comp.lang.c, there is a great deal of information about
C
programming available on the World Wide Web.

Probably the definitive list of C resources on the web is Lysator
Computer
Society's Hotlinks to C Resoures:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/c-www.html

Smaller than Lysator, but less busy is my own small C Resources page:

http://www.cast.msstate.edu/~billy/c-prog.html

Many code snippits (algorithms) are available from the "snippets"
collection
by Bob Stout. It's available from http://www.brokersys.com/snippets,
or
alternatively via ftp from ftp.cdrom.com in /pub/algorithms.

Web searches can often turn up source code more efficently than asking
for
it. Try <http://www.altavista.digital.com>, or
<http://www.hotbot.com>.

Deja News allows efficient searching of Usenet. It is possible your
query was covered recently, and the answer is only a search away. Try
<http://www.dejanews.com>.

------ The comp.lang.c Frequently Asked Question subject list

The FAQ list is maintained by Steve Summit (s...@eskimo.com). An
excellent,
much-expanded book version is also available; "C Programming FAQs",
published by Addison-Wesley.

The HTML version is located at
<http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>.
It may be ftp'd from "rtfm.mit.edu" in the directory /pub/usenet.

The individual sections may be conveniently reached directly by using
the following links:

Declarations and Initializers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s1.html
Structs, Unions, and Enums
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s2.html
Expressions
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s3.html
Pointers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s4.html
Null Pointers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s5.html
Arrays and Pointers
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s6.html
Memory Allocation
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s7.html
Characters and Strings
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s8.html
Boolean Expr's and Variables
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s9.html
C Preprocessor
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s10.html
ANSI/ISO Standard C
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s11.html
Stdio
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s12.html
Library Functions
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s13.html
Floating Point
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s14.html
Variable-Length Argument Lists
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s15.html
Strange Problems
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s16.html
Style
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s17.html
Tools and Resources
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s18.html
System Dependencies
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s19.html
Miscellaneous
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/s20.html

----- Other FAQs on related topics:

UNIX Programming FAQ
http://www.erlenstar.demon.co.uk/unix/faq_toc.html
Unix Socket FAQ
http://kipper.york.ac.uk/~vic/sock-faq/


Duilio Foschi

unread,
Aug 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/17/00
to
Gunnar,

>Internet netiquette guidelines, copies are all over the Internet, e.g.
>http://www.tamucc.edu/~compserv/polocies/rfc1855.html (thanks AltaVista).

ok, I did a quick read of the guidelines.

I found a few warns against off-topic advertising, but I cannot find
my case.

I will read them more carefully later.

In the while, can you point me to the sentences you find up to the
point ?

Regards

Duilio

Duilio Foschi

unread,
Aug 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/17/00
to
>I don't. But comp.lang.c guards its topic jealously. I'm just letting
>you know what the majority of comp.lang.c subscribers think.

well, I for one find this religious zeal narrowminded and dangerous.

I just want to be sure that you don't export it to other areas of your
lives, or we could have quite a few new members of KKK :)

On top of it, you are adding OT to OT, and you don't seem to notice it

>http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html

I have found warns against off-topic advertising. I didn't find my
case there.

>Let's try C.

ok. Please translate your message into C and re-post. I will be happy
to debug your code.

Regards

Duilio

Kaz Kylheku

unread,
Aug 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/17/00
to
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:06:04 GMT, Duilio Foschi <ded...@yifan.net> wrote:
>If you read "OT" and you are interested in kosher messages only, you
>skip the message.
>
>The bandwidth penalty is trivial.

False. The article is still copied to thousands of servers around the world.
Usenet is actually broader than the Internet; articles travel into nooks and
crannies like little bulletin boards with UUCP gateways. They may go over slow
or metered data links.

>I use "Free Agent" to read NGs and it has no filter. But I guess that
>better OLRs can filter out unwanted subjects, too.
>
>In this case, the bandwidth penalty is zero.

You have a funny idea of zero. The article header, which has to be downloaded
by your reader before you can see the subject line, is not zero bytes long.

Your utter cluelessness, and your irrational defence of off-topic litter is
making you ever more irritating.

It looks like the time has come to vote another lamer off the island.

*plonk*

Richard Heathfield

unread,
Aug 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/17/00