Are there any certifications for C++

[Robert Hutchings]

Hi all,

SOME employers like "certs"...are there any for C++? What is the best?

Regards,

Rob Hutchings

[Robert Hutchings]

I found this link:

http://www.cppinstitute.org/?p=5

Have you ever heard of this?

[Christopher Pisz]

I'd give negative points to anyone that had a "certification" in any
programming language on their resume. It's not the type of thing you get
tested for once and are forever deemed worthy. It's something you have
to do every day, have a passion for, and an intuition for. Reciting the
rules of the language is a small percentage of what is required to be a
good programmer.

Certifications are for those guys that sit in the closet with their copy
of Windows Server and push Windows Updates through the network, while
feeling like they are super smart, IMO.

[Robert Hutchings]

Well, I tend to agree. In the past, some prospective employers used
Brainbench to test applicants knowledge. I think "certs" have always
been overrated...

[Jorgen Grahn]

On Wed, 2014-09-24, Robert Hutchings wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> SOME employers like "certs"...are there any for C++?

If there is one, I've never heard about it, or met anyone
who admitted to being certified.

Back in the 1990s certification for Java and MS stuff
seemed popular; perhaps it still is but, I'm not even
sure about that.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Robert Hutchings <rm.hut...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<lvul7c$qhd$1...@dont-email.me> thusly:

>SOME employers like "certs"...are there any for C++? What is the best?

Speaking as someone who has interviewed many programmer candidates in
the past 3 years, I would recommend that you contribute to an open
source project instead of working towards a certification.

If you contribute to OSS, it becomes part of your public portfolio
that anyone can browse to learn about your programming abilities.
Usually when you work at a company, the software you write is their
intellectual property and you are unable to share it with potential
future employers. (You may be lucky enough to have an employer that
pays you to improve OSS, in which case you get the best of both.)

If you contribute to the right OSS project (like a library that is
part of Boost or plans to be submitted to the ISO standards committee),
it could be a serious feather in your cap. It could open employment
opportunities simply because you wrote the library/application. Where
I work we wanted to use some OSS and extend it in specific directions
that would help our hardware product. The easiest way to achieve that
was to hire the main contributor to the OSS and pay them to work on
the extensions we wanted.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

[Robert Hutchings]

On 9/25/2014 12:45 AM, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Robert Hutchings <rm.hut...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <lvul7c$qhd$1...@dont-email.me> thusly:
>
>> SOME employers like "certs"...are there any for C++? What is the best?
>
> Speaking as someone who has interviewed many programmer candidates in
> the past 3 years, I would recommend that you contribute to an open
> source project instead of working towards a certification.
>
> If you contribute to OSS, it becomes part of your public portfolio
> that anyone can browse to learn about your programming abilities.
> Usually when you work at a company, the software you write is their
> intellectual property and you are unable to share it with potential
> future employers. (You may be lucky enough to have an employer that
> pays you to improve OSS, in which case you get the best of both.)
>
> If you contribute to the right OSS project (like a library that is
> part of Boost or plans to be submitted to the ISO standards committee),
> it could be a serious feather in your cap. It could open employment
> opportunities simply because you wrote the library/application. Where
> I work we wanted to use some OSS and extend it in specific directions
> that would help our hardware product. The easiest way to achieve that
> was to hire the main contributor to the OSS and pay them to work on
> the extensions we wanted.
>

I think this is an excellent suggestion! Thanks Richard...

[woodb...@gmail.com]

I suggest you consider a hybrid approach where you have
some open source and some closed. That's the approach
I've taken. If you are a super-genius, you might be
able to make Richard's suggestion work. But if, like me,
you are not so smart, I think you will have a better chance
of making it with a hybrid approach.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

woodb...@gmail.com spake the secret code
<325f1435-d46d-436d...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

>On Thursday, September 25, 2014 6:43:26 AM UTC-5, Robert Hutchings wrote:
>> On 9/25/2014 12:45 AM, Richard wrote:
>>
>> > Robert Hutchings <rm.hut...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
>> > <lvul7c$qhd$1...@dont-email.me> thusly:
>> >
>> >> SOME employers like "certs"...are there any for C++? What is the best?
>>
>> > Speaking as someone who has interviewed many programmer candidates in
>> > the past 3 years, I would recommend that you contribute to an open
>> > source project instead of working towards a certification.
>>

>> I think this is an excellent suggestion! Thanks Richard...
>
>I suggest you consider a hybrid approach where you have
>some open source and some closed. That's the approach
>I've taken. If you are a super-genius, you might be
>able to make Richard's suggestion work. But if, like me,
>you are not so smart, I think you will have a better chance
>of making it with a hybrid approach.

Most places will pay you to work on their intellectual property, i.e.
closed source software. This is valuable experience, but it's not
something that you can share with anyone else other than what you
write on your resume.

Besides open source, another thing that is useful is to offer to pair
program with the people on the team of your prospective employer.
There are many more factors to consider in a candidate beyond the
resume. The resume is just the starting point and only scratches the
surface.

Looking at someone's contributions to open source tells me a lot more
about their programming ability than anything on a resume. In fact,
if someone's resume was just a list of their open source projects and
the username under which they made commits, that would be fine with
me.

Beyond technical ability and knowledge is how well you would fit into
the team. Unless it is a very small company, the likelihood is very
high you will be working on a team with other engineers, UX designers,
testers and so-on. If you pair program with the team for a day you
will both get a feel for how well you are going to fit into that team.

[Jorgen Grahn]

Based on your earlier postings, I think you're talking about making a
living writing (partly) open source software. That's not what they're
talking about.

[Christopher Pisz]

On 9/25/2014 2:56 PM, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> woodb...@gmail.com spake the secret code
> <325f1435-d46d-436d...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>
>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 6:43:26 AM UTC-5, Robert Hutchings wrote:
>>> On 9/25/2014 12:45 AM, Richard wrote:
>>>
>>>> Robert Hutchings <rm.hut...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
>>>> <lvul7c$qhd$1...@dont-email.me> thusly:
>>>>

SNIP

> Looking at someone's contributions to open source tells me a lot more
> about their programming ability than anything on a resume. In fact,
> if someone's resume was just a list of their open source projects and
> the username under which they made commits, that would be fine with
> me.
>

SNIP


How would you ever be able to tell while looking at open source whether
the candidate wrote the lines in question or if someone else did, or if
it was edited? At least without spending hours in their source control
system.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:56:41 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
>
> Beyond technical ability and knowledge is how well you would fit into
> the team. Unless it is a very small company, the likelihood is very
> high you will be working on a team with other engineers, UX designers,
> testers and so-on. If you pair program with the team for a day you
> will both get a feel for how well you are going to fit into that team.
>

I'm looking more for "misfits" I guess.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - If you can't join 'em, beat 'em.
http://webEbenezer.net

[David Brown]

You can often get an idea after spending just minutes in their source
control system.

If the candidate thinks their open source contributions are relevant,
they should tell their prospective employer in their resume or covering
letter, and should say roughly what they did. It should only take a
very quick check to see if they are telling the truth about their role
in the project, and (assuming it was significant enough) it will not
take long to get some samples of their code.

[Ian Collins]

Richard wrote:
>
> Besides open source, another thing that is useful is to offer to pair
> program with the people on the team of your prospective employer.
> There are many more factors to consider in a candidate beyond the
> resume. The resume is just the starting point and only scratches the
> surface.

I would always get a candidate who passed our first interview to spend
an hour or so pairing with one or more team members. Some people come
across really well in interviews but can't program their way out of a
paper bag.

> Looking at someone's contributions to open source tells me a lot more
> about their programming ability than anything on a resume. In fact,
> if someone's resume was just a list of their open source projects and
> the username under which they made commits, that would be fine with
> me.
>
> Beyond technical ability and knowledge is how well you would fit into
> the team. Unless it is a very small company, the likelihood is very
> high you will be working on a team with other engineers, UX designers,
> testers and so-on. If you pair program with the team for a day you
> will both get a feel for how well you are going to fit into that team.

+1. A development team should have a say in the recruitment process.
Although I must admit the process confused our HR people no end!

--
Ian Collins

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Christopher Pisz <nos...@notanaddress.com> spake the secret code
<m01tnj$tov$1...@dont-email.me> thusly:

>On 9/25/2014 2:56 PM, Richard wrote:
>> Looking at someone's contributions to open source tells me a lot more
>> about their programming ability than anything on a resume. In fact,
>> if someone's resume was just a list of their open source projects and
>> the username under which they made commits, that would be fine with
>> me.
>
>

>How would you ever be able to tell while looking at open source whether
>the candidate wrote the lines in question or if someone else did, or if
>it was edited? At least without spending hours in their source control
>system.

As others have said, for starters you browse around the source control
system. You can also do things like run static analysis tools on
their source and then ask them in an interview about any problems
detected. The source code isn't a substitute for an interview, but I
might accept it as a substitute for a resume. Their contributions to
open source form the starting point for a discussion.

It is very similar to the practice of asking candidates to code a
solution to a programming problem. This is something that many teams
do to guage a minimum level of competency. They submit code in
response to the problem and we evaluate it for correctness and style.
Personally I think open source contributions are a better
representative of what they do in code when they are coding just for
themselves and not in an attempt to please others. So it could be a
more typical representation of how they code.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 1:42:26 PM UTC-5, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Christopher Pisz <nos...@notanaddress.com> spake the secret code
> <m01tnj$tov$1...@dont-email.me> thusly:
>
> >On 9/25/2014 2:56 PM, Richard wrote:
>
> >> Looking at someone's contributions to open source tells me a lot more
> >> about their programming ability than anything on a resume. In fact,
> >> if someone's resume was just a list of their open source projects and
> >> the username under which they made commits, that would be fine with
> >> me.
>
> >How would you ever be able to tell while looking at open source whether
> >the candidate wrote the lines in question or if someone else did, or if
> >it was edited? At least without spending hours in their source control
> >system.
>
> As others have said, for starters you browse around the source control
> system. You can also do things like run static analysis tools on
> their source and then ask them in an interview about any problems
> detected. The source code isn't a substitute for an interview, but I
> might accept it as a substitute for a resume. Their contributions to
> open source form the starting point for a discussion.

I would say their contributions to their company are a starting
point for a discussion. The contributions might not be to an open
source project. It's possible to make decisions based on closed
source contributions ... was the product successful ... in
the case of the C++ Middleware Writer people can evaluate the
open source output from the code generator ...

I would also consider if they had contributed to failed
open source projects.

>
> It is very similar to the practice of asking candidates to code a
> solution to a programming problem. This is something that many teams
> do to guage a minimum level of competency. They submit code in
> response to the problem and we evaluate it for correctness and style.
> Personally I think open source contributions are a better
> representative of what they do in code when they are coding just for
> themselves and not in an attempt to please others. So it could be a
> more typical representation of how they code.
>

I don't code just for myself.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - To G-d be the glory.
http://webEbenezer.net