Conservative employees "don't feel safe"

[woodb...@gmail.com]

https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics

As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
(one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies. I
realized in the 1990s that my back was against the wall
and I had no choice but to start a company. It hasn't
been easy as there have been a lot of attempts to undermine
the credibility of my company. But it's now 19 years later
and G-d has been faithful in terms of helping me build an
increasingly robust code base:
https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards

. My message to conservative employees who don't feel
safe is to join smaller, more conservative companies.
For example, DuckDuckGo -- https://duckduckgo.com

is a good alternative to Google. They don't track your
searching and they don't follow you around with ads.
I've been using them for over ten years and never had a
problem with them.

If you are a conservative at Twitter, Facebook, etc.,
don't be fooled by these words from the Twitter CEO.
I think he feels bad about the situation, but don't think
he will do anything to really improve matters for you.
You will be left with difficult choices similar to what
I faced in the 1990s. If you decide to walk away from
Twitter, IBM, Facebook, etc.:

1. Congratulations. I think you will be happier in the
long run.

2. I'm willing to spend 16 hours/week for six months on a
project that uses my software. You can also refer yourself
and get a referral bonus. See http://webEbenezer.net/about.html
for more details.



Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - Enjoying programming again.
http://webEbenezer.net

[jacobnavia]

Le 15/09/2018 à 19:04, woodb...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>
> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer)

(otherwise known as bigots!)

> I wouldn't
> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.

Yeah, most people try to avoid bigots, they are absolutely unbearable,
and you are no exception.

> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.

Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.

> I
> realized in the 1990s that my back was against the wall
> and I had no choice but to start a company. It hasn't
> been easy as there have been a lot of attempts to undermine
> the credibility of my company. But it's now 19 years later
> and G-d has been faithful in terms of helping me build an
> increasingly robust code base:
> https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards
>

<quote>
"G-d has been faithful"
<end quote>

So, you say that your "G-d" has been faithful?
Faithful to whom?

To YOU of course!

There we have it. "G-d" is faithful to Ebenezer and Co.

Incredible how blind this bigots can be!

[Ian Collins]

What about Labour employees or Liberal employees or Green employees?

On 16/09/18 05:04, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:

Ah I see, more religious bigotry. Please bugger off and take your views
elsewhere.

--
Ian.

[bitrex]

On 09/15/2018 01:04 PM, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics

<snip>

Majority control of all three branches of government plus brag "we have
all the guns" and you _still_ don't feel safe? You want a blankie, too?

What a pack of pussies.

[bitrex]

On 09/15/2018 03:23 PM, jacobnavia wrote:
> Le 15/09/2018 à 19:04, woodb...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>
>> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>>
>>
>> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer)
>
> (otherwise known as bigots!)
>
>> I wouldn't
>> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
>
> Yeah, most people try to avoid bigots, they are absolutely unbearable,
> and you are no exception.

Gun-toting wingnut Evangelical Americans aren't Christians. "Christian
Nation"? what a laugh.

[Juha Nieminen]

jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
>> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
>> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.
>
> Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.

It's a good thing not to support marriage? Can you elaborate?

[bitrex]

It means they didn't fire all the gays.

[bitrex]

That is to say in religious wackadoo language "not being supportive" of
them means the company didn't treat everyone who didn't share their
views like trash.

[Juha Nieminen]

Until he corroborates that's what he meant, I'm giving him the
benefit of the doubt. You are reading between the lines something
he didn't say. (You could well be completely correct, but I don't
like to jump into conclusions and make assumptions.)

He could just as well have meant that the companies refused to make
an open statement opposing gay marriage. (Not that that's a good
reason to boycott them either, but it's really not the same thing.)

[jacobnavia]

Companies are there to make money, not to give their employees
directions about how to live their lives!

Employees are entitled to their opinions, way of life, sexual
preferences, fashions they follow or not, whatever. Companies aren't
entitled to tell anyone anything about those aspects of their individual
FREEDOM!

Bigots would love that we come back to the 19th century and give gays
the death penalty, together with atheists, free thinkers, etc.
Happily, two centuries have passed and they have lost their grip on
society and no matter how strong they cry, they aren't able to control
people anymore as they did in the past.

The history of mankind shows us that the churches are losing ground
everywhere, and that science is gaining ground everywhere. This fight
between science and religion started in the renaissance, a few centuries
ago.

Galileo was condammed by the church because of his heretic views, but
science won in the end because science is based on facts, and even their
"G-d" can't do anything against facts.

Marriage, am I for "marriage"?

Of course I am for the union of a man and a woman (I wouldn't be here if
my mother wouldn't have loved my father, as everybody else here).

But I am not for chasing gays, trans-sexuals or other 'deviant' humans
because I am of the opinion that those people are HUMANS and merit all
our respect, contrary to the silly teachings of the church.

And of course I am against pedophilic priests by the way. I am against
them even if they cry that they are "for marriage".

:-)

[Öö Tiib]

Whatever he meant he does not understand that he is expecting
companies to take positions that those can not take. Companies have
to follow local laws like everybody else. A company can be sued if
they discriminate human rights of their customers or employees.
USA is full of sharks searching for any opportunities to make
money. There a company worth anything that makes bigoted statements
will be trolled into taking discriminating actions against employee
or customer and then sued successfully.

I have asked before how his serialization is better (or even different)
than all the numerous freely available and well-documented serialization
and RPC systems. He just can't answer anything. Apparently he believes
that his chauvinism is somehow freeing him from need to offer at least
one outstanding feature in order to enter competition. Actually it is
other way around. Lack of worthy features makes it worthless and so
sharks do not bother to troll him.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/15/2018 01:04 PM, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>

> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>
> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies. I
> realized in the 1990s that my back was against the wall
> and I had no choice but to start a company. It hasn't
> been easy as there have been a lot of attempts to undermine
> the credibility of my company. But it's now 19 years later
> and G-d has been faithful in terms of helping me build an
> increasingly robust code base:
> https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards

Brian, thank you for raising a voice regarding a life lived
in service to and support of the God of the Bible and His
teachings. It is important for people to hear such things,
and to be reminded from where exactly all right things ori-
ginate.

> . My message to conservative employees who don't feel
> safe is to join smaller, more conservative companies.
> For example, DuckDuckGo -- https://duckduckgo.com
>
> is a good alternative to Google. They don't track your
> searching and they don't follow you around with ads.
> I've been using them for over ten years and never had a
> problem with them.
>
> If you are a conservative at Twitter, Facebook, etc.,
> don't be fooled by these words from the Twitter CEO.
> I think he feels bad about the situation, but don't think
> he will do anything to really improve matters for you.
> You will be left with difficult choices similar to what
> I faced in the 1990s. If you decide to walk away from
> Twitter, IBM, Facebook, etc.:
>
> 1. Congratulations. I think you will be happier in the
> long run.

In July 2012 I started the Liberty Software Foundation as
a God-fearing alternative to the Free Software Foundation.
It has been my goal to create a full software stack that
honors God, and to also create even a hardware stack.

It has been a very difficult journey since then, but I have
now over 150,000 lines of code developed in various areas,
and several projects which are beginning to converge. I
am looking to have my compiler completed and usable in late
2019 or early/mid 2020. And there are projects underway to
introduce a new operating system, new tools for developers
and users, and several applications. It is my hope that
once I get some of the root tools completed, other God-fear-
ing men and women will come on board and help me as we move
further.

It has taken a great deal of effort to pursue. Constant
ridicule. Constant uphill battles. Constant hatred cast
toward me at every point because I name the name of Jesus.
People calling me bigots and telling me I'm full of hate
because I teach them the things God has revealed in the
Bible that He will judge in our lives, etc.

But I know how important it is for Gentiles (non-Jews) to
come to Jesus, to ask forgiveness for their sin, and to serve
the Lord with all our lives, for that is His calling for each
of us, and to then go that step further and teach others to
do the same, leading others by example as we follow His lead.

-----
It is important for people to be reminded of the things of God,
because God hasn't gone anywhere, even if we've tried to push
Him out of every aspect of our lives. He remains in power, in
authority, in control, the final judge, the true leader, the
true foundation, the true source from which all goodness flows...
even if we've forgotten Him/that in our "modern" society.

> 2. I'm willing to spend 16 hours/week for six months on a
> project that uses my software. You can also refer yourself
> and get a referral bonus. See http://webEbenezer.net/about.html
> for more details.

I've seen you post this type of offer in various forms
multiple times. The support you offer to your product base
is inspiring. I am moved by your sincerity and devotion.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 15/09/18 19:04, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>
> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.

Giving yourself a trendy, teenage-sounding acronym does not make you
part of a trendy group. You are a bigot with little regard or respect
for other people and their feelings, who just happens to be a
programmer. The two aspects of your life are not related.

And while a fair proportion of religious bigots have generally
conservative views, I think you insult conservatives everywhere by
implying the terms are synonymous.

You have the right to think that marriage should be restricted to one
man, one woman, and to think of gender in such overly simplistic ways.
But you don't have the right to impose those views on others, or to put
words in others' mouths by implying this is the view of "conservative
employees" (to the limited extend that such a grouping makes any sense
at all). And you don't have the right to preach "holier than thou"
attitudes to others.

And if you don't feel comfortable with people who don't share your 19th
century prejudices (it's not "middle-age" prejudice, as many people
think - in the middle ages, people didn't really care about these
things), then you are free to drop out from society and live in a little
bubble of your own making. Just don't expect others to follow you.

> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.

Have you any evidence to suggest that these companies /ever/ had the
kind of bias you think they no longer have? Or are you just upset
because they now actively say that people should be free to love whoever
they want to?

> I
> realized in the 1990s that my back was against the wall
> and I had no choice but to start a company. It hasn't
> been easy as there have been a lot of attempts to undermine
> the credibility of my company. But it's now 19 years later
> and G-d has been faithful in terms of helping me build an
> increasingly robust code base:
> https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards
>
> . My message to conservative employees who don't feel
> safe is to join smaller, more conservative companies.
> For example, DuckDuckGo -- https://duckduckgo.com
>

And what gives you the idea that DuckDuckGo is run by religious cranks
who want to force homosexuals to live a lie? I would be astounded to
hear that that company supported the kind of bigotry groups you like, or
that they would be the slightest bit bothered if their employees were
gay, or that they would be the slightest bit supportive of prejudice
amongst their employees?

> is a good alternative to Google. They don't track your
> searching and they don't follow you around with ads.
> I've been using them for over ten years and never had a
> problem with them.
>

People can choose their search engines as they want, for whatever
reasons they want. Some people choose google because they /like/ the
integration - it means they get answers (and adverts) more relevant to
them. Others choose DuckDuckGo because they like the privacy. Many
don't choose at all, but just use the default on their devices or
programs. And some choose different engines at different times for
different purposes. They don't need /you/ to moralise and tell them
which search engines they should be using.

> If you are a conservative at Twitter, Facebook, etc.,
> don't be fooled by these words from the Twitter CEO.
> I think he feels bad about the situation, but don't think
> he will do anything to really improve matters for you.
> You will be left with difficult choices similar to what
> I faced in the 1990s. If you decide to walk away from
> Twitter, IBM, Facebook, etc.:
>
> 1. Congratulations. I think you will be happier in the
> long run.
>
> 2. I'm willing to spend 16 hours/week for six months on a
> project that uses my software. You can also refer yourself
> and get a referral bonus. See http://webEbenezer.net/about.html
> for more details.
>

More commercial spam?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 06:35 AM, jacobnavia wrote:
> Companies are there to make money, not to give their employees
> directions about how to live their lives!

We were all created by God. We are called by Him to honor
Him with the fulnenss of our lives, all of our fruit, all of
our labor, all of our efforts. These include the ones which
bring about a corporate atmosphere (we think of "corporate"
today as a money-seeking endeavor, but it's just a group of
people working together for a common cause).

God calls us to be in unity one to another, and to look up
to Him and honor Him with our lives. To not follow after
another voice at work in this world, the same one that was
in the Garden of Eden telling Eve and Adam, "You will not
surely die [if you eat this fruit]."

That voice is a liar and a deceiver, and his goal is to de-
ceive you long enough to distract you through this whole
life so that you die unforgiven, lost in your sin, forcing
God to judge you because you would not come to Him and ask
forgiveness.

God has given us everything we need in this world, and
stands at the ready to open up the floodgates of Heaven and
pour us out a blessing so large we will not be able to con-
tain it. But just as we wouldn't give an irresponsible 18-
year old a billion dollar inheritance, for we know they'd
not only squander the inheritance but likely destroy them-
selves in their life, so too God is waiting for us to mat-
ure and seek after right things rightly, so that we, by our
conscious choices, seek to move Him to the front of our dai-
ly lives, so that we might have a purposeful and rigorous
focus on Him, so that we are mature enough to receive those
many blessings He desires with greatest desire to pour out
unto us.

-----
Do not discount God, Jacob. Consider Him. Do not think
you have an understanding of God if you think there is any-
thing wrong within Him, for that is ONLY the enemy's voice
speaking into your thoughts / feelings / emotions. And that
enemy has a purpose for your life contrary to the purpose
God has for your life. That enemy wants your soul destroyed
in Hell. God wants your soul saved, which is why He gave us
His Son Jesus, so that by what Jesus did at the cross, and
the price He paid before the Father, we are set free.

Think on these things, and don't just discount them. Ponder
within yourself, "What would a true God do when His children
rebelled against Him? Would He rise up against them and de-
stroy them, or would He make a way out for all to come to Him
and be saved ... if only they would receive that free offer
of forgiveness wrapped in love?"

You'll find God is full of mercy, grace, compassion, empathy,
and He desires with greatest longing that every person He's
created world-wide would come to Him and ask forgiveness for
their sin and be saved.

You can be saved, Jacob. All you have to do is ask Him to
forgive your sin, and to desire within to repent and turn
away from the enemy's guidance, from wicked ways, from that
which the Bible calls "sin." You can be saved today for all
eternity ... just for the asking. And you can then watch
Him enter your life and teach you things you never knew were
possible, because you wouldn't hear them before.

I pray you do. You are a valuable and amazing person full
of life and a potential future. I would like to see you
forgiven. I would like to see your light shine in this world
for God. I would like to see you thriving in all eternity
with God, in the fullness of beauty and creation He made you
to be and inhabit.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 06:35 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> Whatever he meant he does not understand that he is expecting
> companies to take positions that those can not take. Companies have
> to follow local laws like everybody else. A company can be sued if
> they discriminate human rights of their customers or employees.

He's trying to teach you that God is still in control, and that
even though man's laws say to do X, there are still God's laws
which say to either not to do X, or to do Y as well.

> USA is full of sharks searching for any opportunities to make
> money. There a company worth anything that makes bigoted statements
> will be trolled into taking discriminating actions against employee
> or customer and then sued successfully.

In the U.S., people often claim "Separation of church and state."
That's not a Constitutional wording found anywhere, but it is
a reference to something voice in a letter, a philosophy by our
Thomas Jefferson, conveying a sentiment that's different than
most people ascribe to it.

Most people think that means we can't have "religion" in our
roles as people being convicted by God into choosing laws which
support Biblical positions within our government. That's not
what the intent was at all.

In the U.S., the "separation of church and state" was designed
to keep government out of religion, and not religion out of
government.

If it is the will of the people to have laws which support the
Biblical positions, that is appropriate to possess and occupy
as our "local laws." But even beyond that, and even without
our local laws supporting the things of the Bible, God remains
in control.

God has never abdicated the Throne. He's never handed off His
authority to our local politicians. He remains in fullest
authority, the ultimate judge, and each of us have a future
meeting with Him to give an account of our lives, and the
standard He uses to compare our actions against will be His
laws, His guidance, His Son, primarily, and then secondarily
it will be how well we dealt with the things of man here.

-----
Make no mistake about it. God sends the men and women of
faith in His Kingdom into your lives to give you opportunity
after opportunity to hear His voice, to hear His guidance,
to hear His ways, to be given the real opportunities to come
to Him and serve Him in this world, rather than following
after a deceiving enemy who has your soul's destruction in
Hell on his mind.

God wants you saved. He wants you prospering and thriving
and "shining like the stars forever" (the Bible says). The
enemy wants to deprive you of that birthright.

Investigate these things. Seek to learn the truth and not
the hearsay or belief about something. Seek out the root
of the matter. Go to the source and read the details God
has given us through His Holy Word for yourself.

Taste and see that the Lord is good.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

When Brian writes this, what he means is the companies did not support
the bigot groups that want to restrict marriage to one man, one woman
unions because "that's what children deserve". It doesn't matter to him
if the parents love each other, or can run a family well, or are good
parents - all he is concerned about is the gender of the parents matches
a couple of rules of his little old book (ignoring, of course, the
attitude of the book's key character or its overriding message of love,
or the hypocrisy of ignoring all the other rules).

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 06:52 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 15/09/18 19:04, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>>
>>
>> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
>> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
>
> Giving yourself a trendy, teenage-sounding acronym does not make you
> part of a trendy group.

His witness and example (consistently remembering and sup-
porting God in his life) is what gives Him a name known in
Heaven. He is not just seeking a name known among men.

You also have a name known in Heaven, David ... but for all
the wrong reasons because you deny Jesus and go your own way
in full rebellion against God.

It will be to your soul's destruction ... unless you repent
and change your ways.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 16/09/18 10:03, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 01:37 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 09/16/2018 12:41 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>>>>>> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
>>>>>> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
>>>>>> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.
>>>>
>>>> It's a good thing not to support marriage? Can you elaborate?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It means they didn't fire all the gays.
>>
>> That is to say in religious wackadoo language "not being supportive" of
>> them means the company didn't treat everyone who didn't share their
>> views like trash.
>
> Until he corroborates that's what he meant, I'm giving him the
> benefit of the doubt. You are reading between the lines something
> he didn't say. (You could well be completely correct, but I don't
> like to jump into conclusions and make assumptions.)

Brian and his bigotry are not new to this group. We /know/ he is
obsessed with trying to stop people loving who they want, and forming
unions as they want, unless they conform to his religious dogma. You
can read about it on his website too.

>
> He could just as well have meant that the companies refused to make
> an open statement opposing gay marriage. (Not that that's a good
> reason to boycott them either, but it's really not the same thing.)
>

It /is/ the same thing in Brian's black-or-white world view. Either you
are absolutely against any concept of homosexuality, with a particular
emphasis on marriage and families, or you are in league with the devil.
The nearest he might come to a middle group is accepting that some
people might be attracted to the same gender, but they must never act on
those urges.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:06 AM, David Brown wrote:
> When Brian writes this, what he means is the companies did not support
> the bigot groups that want to restrict marriage to one man, one woman
> unions because "that's what children deserve".

What the enemy means to do is this: convince people that his
guidance is right, and teach people that God's guidance is
wrong. He does this by appealing to our flesh-based lusts,
to deceive us into believing his teachings, and denying God.

Once we acquiesce to his prompting, his temptation, his lures,
he gains a legal access into our minds. Once there, he begins
to spread his net even further, trapping every thought, bring-
ing all of the person's thinking into obedience to that enemy
of God.

But God has not changed. He has condemned homosexuality and
cited it as a sin in the Old Testament and New Testament, one
which leads to eternal separation from God in Hell.

God is trying with the loudest voice to get people's attention,
but people love sin so much they won't hear God. They put both
hands over their ears and cry out "wah wah wah wah wah wah" to
drown out the voice of God as they follow after their lusts.

-----
It breaks my heart to see people demeaning God, standing up
for the enemy, and destroying their soul in the process.

God made them male and female. He made Adam and said, "It
is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a help-
meet for him," and then He made Eve and brought her to Adam.

There's a teaching there ... for all who will hear it. I
pray you are one of them, David. You are a beautiful and
remarkable creation of God and I would like to see you
thriving in God's Kingdom, rather than writhing in agony in
eternal Hellfire because you rejected Him and all He stands
for.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:25 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> But God has not changed.  He has condemned homosexuality and
> cited it as a sin in the Old Testament and New Testament, one
> which leads to eternal separation from God in Hell.

Here are the Biblical references in the New Testament to homo-
sexuality being a sin that separates one from God forever:


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude+1%3A7%2C+1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10%2C1+Timothy+1%3A9-10%2CRomans+1%3A18-32&version=NIV

It's not for nothing Christians teach these things. It has
to do with what God established by His design, buy example in
giving Eve to Adam, with Adam realizing what God intended when
he said, "This is now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh,
and for this reason will a man leave his mother and father
and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

God took a rib out of Adam to make Eve. He is incomplete
without her, and she also without him.

To deny God and God's design is to invite destruction upon
one's own eternal soul. And yes, we do have an eternal soul,
and it is that very object the enemy of God is trying to take
away from each of us. That enemy wants us to be destroyed
because we were made in the image and likeness of God. That
enemy hates God, and he hates us because of who we are, and
he wants to hurt God, and he wants to hurt us.

We give the enemy power by our choices. But God is greater,
and everyone who turns to God truly is saved from that enemy,
and made part of God's eternal Kingdom through Jesus Christ.

Learn of these things and see how they set you free from the
enemy's web of lies, deceits, trickeries, forgeries, usurps,
and hate.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 16 September 2018 14:04:21 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 06:35 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> > Whatever he meant he does not understand that he is expecting
> > companies to take positions that those can not take. Companies have
> > to follow local laws like everybody else. A company can be sued if
> > they discriminate human rights of their customers or employees.
>
> He's trying to teach you that God is still in control, and that
> even though man's laws say to do X, there are still God's laws
> which say to either not to do X, or to do Y as well.

God is not legal subject and as such if he exists is free to do whatever
he wants to. However companies and individuals have to abide human laws.
So if for example your "god laws" require you to put homosexuals to
death (Leviticus 20:13) and you do, then you will be punished for murder,
idiot, and god won't interfere.

>
> > USA is full of sharks searching for any opportunities to make
> > money. There a company worth anything that makes bigoted statements
> > will be trolled into taking discriminating actions against employee
> > or customer and then sued successfully.

Snipping confused nonsense that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
I did not talk about god or religion. God may take whatever thrones,
to express whatever desires and to take whatever actions.
However religious zealots have no rights of god but have to abide the
local laws. Otherwise evil people will troll the morons into misery
for to get a little material benefit or sometimes "just for lulz".
That is it. Investigate those things.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:51 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Sunday, 16 September 2018 14:04:21 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> He's trying to teach you that God is still in control, and that
>> even though man's laws say to do X, there are still God's laws
>> which say to either not to do X, or to do Y as well.
>
> God is not legal subject

He is the source of all our true and fundamental laws, Öö
Tiib.

> and as such if he exists is free to do whatever
> he wants to.

He has created us, and given His creation guidance on how
to be. It is found in the philosophy of the Law of Moses,
as well as its details, and is best given by example in His
giving us His own Son, Jesus the Christ, to save us from
our sin, demonstrating God's love for us in that while we
were yet guilty, God made a way for us to be set free.

> However companies and individuals have to abide human laws.

God teaches us to abide by human law as well, but not when
they contradict God's laws.

There is an enemy of God at work in people in this world,
Öö Tiib. That enemy has entered into the minds and bodies
of people in this world by tempting them to sin, and then
gaining a legal license to enter in and conduct business
in our physical bodies by our choices. We say, "Yes, devil,
come on in. I will follow your guidance rather than God's."

The enemy does this by deceiving us through the temptation
he sets before us to sin. We want the thing he tempts us
with, so we voluntarily sin.

> So if for example your "god laws" require you to put homosexuals to
> death (Leviticus 20:13) and you do, then you will be punished for murder,
> idiot, and god won't interfere.

That is the Old Testament. We no longer live in that place.
When God gave the Law to Israel, He was doing so in contrast
to those evil spirit influences. The person espousing homo-
sexuality had been compromised. That evil spirit was in that
person's physical body, and the influence of that evil spirit's
voice would've corrupted God's people.

God ordered the death of the homosexual (and the death of many
other people who have embraced sin) to keep that evil spirit
from gaining a foothold in God's people'.

However, Israel was rebellious against God and did not listen
to Him, and they let those people live, and they didn't stone
all they were supposed to, and they, by their own lusts in
pursuit of sin, turned away from God and embraced the subtle
and clever enemy's teachings time and time and time again.

As a result, Israel went into captivity time and time and time
again, and ultimately did not receive their Earthly Kingdom
when their Messiah came (when Jesus came here as a man).

Jesus was prepared to give them the Earthly Kingdom at that
time, but they had been so deceived by the enemy, so riddled
with sin, that they not only denied Him, but had Him crucified
as an innocent man.

But God is still faithful to Israel and has promised to redeem
them. He's set aside 144,000 virgins who have not given them-
selves over to shameful lusts, and these will become the ones
filled with God's Holy Spirit after the rapture of the church.
They will be the "new Christians" who then see Jesus as their
Messiah, and go forth and teach the world those things the
Christians are supposed to be teaching today.

But back to God's laws and man's laws. Romans 13 teaches us
to submit ourselves to every authority of man, but we are also
taught to not do things that man has us to do, even when it's
legal, when it goes against God.

The order of hierarchy:

1) God's Laws
2) Man's laws
3) Our own opinion about things not otherwise stated

>> > USA is full of sharks searching for any opportunities to make
>> > money. There a company worth anything that makes bigoted statements
>> > will be trolled into taking discriminating actions against employee
>> > or customer and then sued successfully.
>
> Snipping confused nonsense that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
> I did not talk about god or religion. God may take whatever thrones,
> to express whatever desires and to take whatever actions.
> However religious zealots have no rights of god but have to abide the
> local laws. Otherwise evil people will troll the morons into misery
> for to get a little material benefit or sometimes "just for lulz".
> That is it. Investigate those things.

You are being deceived as I have outlined above, Öö Tiib.
It will cost you your eternal soul.

All I can do is warn you and point you the way. You have
to be willing to pursue it. I pray you do. You are a truly
valuable and remarkable creation of God, full of potential,
full of ability, able to shine on forever ... if you'll let
God guide you and not reject Him.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:51 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:

> Snipping confused nonsense that has nothing to do with what I wrote.

I'm going to do something I don't normally do here. You say,
"Snipping confused nonsense..."

I want to ask you specifically, which parts do you equate to
being confused? Because I can teach you the truth about why
I wrote what I wrote, cite Bible verses, explain further. I
have not written anything that was confused, but I am willing
to teach you the reasons why I wrote what I wrote, so that the
mis-thinking you have today can be corrected and replaced with
the truth, rather than an assumed confusion / wrongness.

> I did not talk about god or religion. God may take whatever thrones,
> to express whatever desires and to take whatever actions.
> However religious zealots have no rights of god but have to abide the
> local laws. Otherwise evil people will troll the morons into misery
> for to get a little material benefit or sometimes "just for lulz".

Your statement here conveys a misunderstanding of what I
wrote. Did you read what I wrote?

> That is it. Investigate those things.

I have well-considered a great many things of this world through
the many years of pondering what God's presence should be in our
days here.

I have created the Liberty Software Foundation as a God-fearing
alternative to the Free Software Foundation, but one with a
very similar end-goal ... the difference being I explicitly hon-
or God with my software and life's work. That difference is not
trivial. It is substantial and formidable.

I have also modified the license I use over time because I began
to understand the philosophy of God's guidance in our lives more
and more. I finally feel I'm to the point where I can begin to
teach others, so I step up and do so, being willing to be cor-
rected wherever I am mistaken. But the things I teach in most
areas are not only taught by me, but have come through many
other pastors and teachers I have studied. They are the voice
of God at work in believers here in this world.

A common voice of Christians pointing people to Jesus Christ so
their sins can be forgiven, their lives and perspectives on our
life can be changed, and that our eternal future is made secure.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 16/09/18 13:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 07:06 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> When Brian writes this, what he means is the companies did not support
>> the bigot groups that want to restrict marriage to one man, one woman
>> unions because "that's what children deserve".
> What the enemy means to do is this:  convince people that his

<snip>

Rick - You don't teach, and you don't listen, so it is always pointless
having a religious discussion or exchange of views with you. You
regurgitate the same stuff with a total disregard to the views, thoughts
or opinions of anyone else - and rarely a hint of attention to the topic
in question. You then follow it up with your self-flagellation and
martyr syndrome where you feel sorry for yourself and think everyone is
against you. So unless you come up with something new and interesting,
I will not reply to your posts in a thread like this.

(As always, I am quite happy to talk on technical on-topic subjects with
you, as with anyone else.)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 08:45 AM, David Brown wrote:
> Rick - You don't teach, and you don't listen

Not only do I teach, David, but I point you to the Bible
to go and learn for yourself.

You won't listen. It will be to your soul's destruction.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Mr Flibble]

On 16/09/2018 12:49, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 07:25 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> But God has not changed.  He has condemned homosexuality and
>> cited it as a sin in the Old Testament and New Testament, one
>> which leads to eternal separation from God in Hell.
>
> Here are the Biblical references in the New Testament to homo-
> sexuality being a sin that separates one from God forever:

Fuck off you egregious bigoted fucktarded cunt. You are just as
distasteful as your so called religion.

/Flibble

--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a
world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 08:52 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 16/09/2018 12:49, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 07:25 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> But God has not changed.  He has condemned homosexuality and
>>> cited it as a sin in the Old Testament and New Testament, one
>>> which leads to eternal separation from God in Hell.
>>
>> Here are the Biblical references in the New Testament to homo-
>> sexuality being a sin that separates one from God forever:
>

> .. off you egregious bigoted .. .. . You are just as

> distasteful as your so called religion.

Only to those who are perishing in their sin, Leigh.

God is the ultimate authority. Your problem is with Him,
not with me. You too are accountable to Him and His laws
and teachings.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude+1%3A7%2C+1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10%2C1+Timothy+1%3A9-10%2CRomans+1%3A18-32&version=NIV

You are warned in advance because today you can repent of
your sin and be saved.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 16/09/18 14:53, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 08:45 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> Rick - You don't teach, and you don't listen
> Not only do I teach, David, but I point you to the Bible
> to go and learn for yourself.

I have plenty of experience of reading the Bible through my life - in
all frames of mind, including open and curious as well as sceptical.
You have no idea about me, what I know, what I have investigated or
learned. You think that you have a monopoly in the "truth" and that the
only reason people don't all follow your beliefs is that you they are
not reading the Bible correctly. You are wrong - it is as simple as that.

Let people read the Bible themselves and get out of it what they get out
of it - if there really is a god up there, he/she will guide them. No
one needs /you/ to try to tell them they are doing it all wrong.

And no, you don't "teach". You don't even know the meaning of the word.
(Here's a clue - if you really were encouraging people to find things
out for themselves, it would not be "teaching" and you wouldn't call it
that.)

>
> You won't listen.  It will be to your soul's destruction.
>

Then let that be /my/ decision, not yours - you are not in judgement
over me.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 11:13 AM, David Brown wrote:
> ...You

> have no idea about me, what I know, what I have investigated or
> learned.

Jesus said twice in Matthew 7:16,20 "You will know them by
their fruit":


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A16%2C20%2CEphesians+5%3A9&version=KJV

> You think that you have a monopoly in the "truth" and that the
> only reason people don't all follow your beliefs is that you they are
> not reading the Bible correctly.  You are wrong - it is as simple as that.

I have never said that one time, David. I have said that
all people who seek the truth will find it. And that's not
me saying that, that's me repeating what the Bible teaches.

>> You won't listen.  It will be to your soul's destruction.
>
> Then let that be /my/ decision, not yours - you are not
> in judgement over me.

I never claimed to be in judgment over you. I teach you
that there is /ONE/ who is in judgment over you, and He
is unrelenting, save the grace given by His Son.

You do not know the teachings of the Bible, David. They
command us (Christians) to go forth and teach people these
things. Your teaching is for me to be silent and let each
person discover for themselves about God. That teaching
is from the anti-Christ whom you follow today.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

Disturbing imagery:

<http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4WL45_6fI_Q/maxresdefault.jpg>

Have a good look, pal. That child died crying for their mother to help
them and she couldn't do a thing about it. Know what I think? I think
God doesn't give one damn how "persecuted" the OP felt at his cushy job
with IBM or how uncomfortable he feels as a "Christian on the Internet."
As a Christian I guess I bet my soul on that position. so be it. OP
tells others to "repent" when one should surely consider carefully their
own.

[bitrex]

On 09/16/2018 07:07 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> On 09/16/2018 06:52 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 15/09/18 19:04, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>>>
>>>
>>> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
>>> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
>>
>> Giving yourself a trendy, teenage-sounding acronym does not make you
>> part of a trendy group.
>
> His witness and example (consistently remembering and sup-
> porting God in his life) is what gives Him a name known in
> Heaven.  He is not just seeking a name known among men.

And for what reason would his name be written there? Writing "Christian"
software and typing words in a text box about his struggles with office
politics?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 12:18 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 07:07 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 06:52 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 15/09/18 19:04, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.recode.net/2018/9/14/17857622/twitter-liberal-employees-conservative-trump-politics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
>>>> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
>>>
>>> Giving yourself a trendy, teenage-sounding acronym does not make you
>>> part of a trendy group.
>>
>> His witness and example (consistently remembering and sup-
>> porting God in his life) is what gives Him a name known in
>> Heaven.  He is not just seeking a name known among men.
>>
>> You also have a name known in Heaven, David ... but for all
>> the wrong reasons because you deny Jesus and go your own way
>> in full rebellion against God.
>>
>> It will be to your soul's destruction ... unless you repent
>> and change your ways.
>
> Disturbing imagery:
>
> <http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4WL45_6fI_Q/maxresdefault.jpg>
>
> Have a good look, pal. That child died crying for their mother to help
> them and she couldn't do a thing about it.

Go and help them. The image is before you, the calling upon
your heart to try and change it. You can be the difference
in their lives.

This world is full of evil because Christians don't speak up
and go forth and do. And people like David would have us be
silent, because that's what the enemy wants. The enemy wants
us to worship in our churches, and never have any impact in
our lives, never go forth and change our communities, never
go forth and teach others the things of Jesus Christ.

Those who are like me will soon be murdered by those who are
like you and David because we will continue to speak boldly
about Jesus Christ, that He is the /ONLY/ way to salvation,
and that all other paths lead to destruction in Hellfire for-
ever.

We are called to bring Jesus to the forefront of all our
endeavors. That is what Brian is doing with his labors by
his long-established witness.

> Know what I think? I think
> God doesn't give one damn how "persecuted" the OP felt at his cushy job
> with IBM or how uncomfortable he feels as a "Christian on the Internet."
> As a Christian I guess I bet my soul on that position. so be it. OP
> tells others to "repent" when one should surely consider carefully their
> own.

You should read the Bible and replace assumed supposition
with true fact.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

For doing. For making the conscious choice to keep God at
the head of his life.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Names written in Heaven:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A20&version=KJV

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits
are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because
==> your names are written in heaven.
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I
thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that
==> thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father;
for so it seemed good in thy sight.

God has chosen the weak things, the ridiculed things, the
despised things of this world, to confound the wise. All
who are wise in their own sight do not yet know as they
ought, and are still on the path to destruction.

Those who come to a right knowledge of Jesus Christ are
taught from within that it's not about us, but rather Him.
It's not about our abilities, but about Him giving us our
abilities to use for Him and His Kingdom. It's not about
our greatness, but it's about His greatness living in us,
leading others to Him as well.

It's about Jesus, not us. We simply bring Him forward to
the forefront of our lives so we can not broadcast our-
selves, but broadcast Him living within us.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

On 09/16/2018 01:17 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 01:01 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 12:24 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> And for what reason would his name be written there? Writing
>>> "Christian" software and typing words in a text box about
>>> his struggles with office politics?
>>
>> For doing.  For making the conscious choice to keep God at
>> the head of his life.
>
> Names written in Heaven:
>
>     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A20&version=KJV
>
>     20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits
>        are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because
> ==>    your names are written in heaven.
>     21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I
>        thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that
> ==>    thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
>        and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father;
>        for so it seemed good in thy sight.
>
> God has chosen the weak things, the ridiculed things, the
> despised things of this world, to confound the wise.  All
> who are wise in their own sight do not yet know as they
> ought, and are still on the path to destruction.

Foolish, dramatic people who, by their _own_ design, bring ridicule upon
themselves are only confounding themselves.

Software engineers who sit in cushy corporate offices and complain on
the Internet are not "weak."

> Those who come to a right knowledge of Jesus Christ are
> taught from within that it's not about us, but rather Him.
> It's not about our abilities, but about Him giving us our
> abilities to use for Him and His Kingdom.  It's not about
> our greatness, but it's about His greatness living in us,
> leading others to Him as well.
>
> It's about Jesus, not us.  We simply bring Him forward to
> the forefront of our lives so we can not broadcast our-
> selves, but broadcast Him living within us.
>

You post OT material so much in disregard of other's explicit wishes
that I think one could definitely get the impression it is, in fact, all
about you. Is that the case, Mr. Passive-Aggressive Saved Man?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It depends on the nature of the complaint. Spiritual
oppression afflicts kings and countrymen. There are no
people immune to this battle. No people on the side-
lines. Everyone is a player. It's just that some are
already so deceived that they don't even realize they're
owned by the enemy.

I have a day job. I get paid enough to keep a house and
send my son to a Christian school. That doesn't mean I
am free from spiritual oppression either.

Truth be told, I get a lot from this group. Not from the
posts people write, but the evil spirits they've let in
to their lives attacking me in my spirit. I've literally
had to take days off work at various times because of it.

>> Those who come to a right knowledge of Jesus Christ are
>> taught from within that it's not about us, but rather Him.
>> It's not about our abilities, but about Him giving us our
>> abilities to use for Him and His Kingdom.  It's not about
>> our greatness, but it's about His greatness living in us,
>> leading others to Him as well.
>>
>> It's about Jesus, not us.  We simply bring Him forward to
>> the forefront of our lives so we can not broadcast our-
>> selves, but broadcast Him living within us.
>
> You post OT material so much in disregard of other's explicit wishes
> that I think one could definitely get the impression it is, in fact, all
> about you. Is that the case, Mr. Passive-Aggressive Saved Man?

Well, there's coming a day for all people who would call
what I post "off-topic" when they will, in that moment,
realize the absolute unending supreme level of importance
with which I speak, to the point where it will be the fore-
most thing on their minds. In fact, those people who stand
condemned by their own sin before God will criticize me for
not having done more.

Sin is the problem. Jesus takes our sin away, setting us
free from judgment, restoring us to eternal life.

Don't you want to live without sin? Don't you want to have
life after you leave this world? Don't you want to be with
God in His perfect Kingdom paradise?

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

Something that always bothered me about American-style proselytizing
lately is there's not nearly enough "fire and brimstone." It's very
passive-aggressive, like your last paragraph. I'll tell you what I know
of Christ. Did you look at the picture? You did that. Not an "evil
world." You. And me. Because we were born into sin. It's not nobody else
it's us. Who could ever forgive such a crime?

If any of the so-called "witnesses" here ever saw one ten billionth of
God's power revealed to them they would not be prattling on about their
work experiences. They would be smashed on their knees so hard they
wouldn't be able to stand up for the better part of five years, and
probably be blinded for ten. You feel "afraid"? You should be!

You don't "feel safe" in your work environment? Boy, it is _nothing_
compared to the terror you would feel if you had any idea what you were
dealing with or whose name you use. You want to go around and "speak
boldly"? You think you're bold? LOL! Wait until you hear a voice that's
really bold. I can see it may have never happened.

I believe God must be the most loving being because even after a crime
of the scale like the one in that picture forgiveness and salvation is
still on offer for humans. It is the most merciful thing ever, who else
would ever accommodate it than Christ. You want something more? You want
to not be persecuted or not be murdered or have a pleasant work
environment? It's not on offer sorry. Grace through Christ is all you
_might_ get. And know what? HE IS BEING FUCKING GENEROUS!!!

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 02:23 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 02:07 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> Sin is the problem.  Jesus takes our sin away, setting us
>> free from judgment, restoring us to eternal life.
>>
>> Don't you want to live without sin?  Don't you want to have
>> life after you leave this world?  Don't you want to be with
>> God in His perfect Kingdom paradise?
>
> Something that always bothered me about American-style proselytizing
> lately is there's not nearly enough "fire and brimstone." It's very
> passive-aggressive, like your last paragraph. I'll tell you what I know
> of Christ. Did you look at the picture? You did that. Not an "evil
> world." You. And me. Because we were born into sin. It's not nobody else
> it's us. Who could ever forgive such a crime?

Sin brought us to this place, but Jesus gives us a new
life, and a new purpose in life. He extends the same
offer to all people world-wide continuously. Even those
who have never heard the gospel, in one way or another
He has presented Himself to those people, and all who
will follow Him will be saved.

There are many Christians who feel called to go off to
far away places and minister. A local family that was
in Boy Scouts with my son in the 2010-2012 felt the need
to go to Haiti. He and his wife sold their house, re-
arranged their lives for training, etc., and went. They
have been there ever since.

> If any of the so-called "witnesses" here ever saw one ten billionth of
> God's power revealed to them they would not be prattling on about their
> work experiences. They would be smashed on their knees so hard they
> wouldn't be able to stand up for the better part of five years, and
> probably be blinded for ten. You feel "afraid"? You should be!

Each of us is called to remain where we were when we were
called. Some of us also then have a higher calling, but
God wants us to be bakers and lawyers and software developers
and bricklayers and welders and insurance agents for Him here
in this world.

It's about our heart, our movement toward our neighbor, how
we impact our communities, etc.

There are no towering giants in the Kingdom of God. Each of
us is a servant on equal footing. God has blessed some with
greater ministries, some greater callings, but each of us is
called to give back when He has first given us, meaning we
are all called to our utmost, no matter how small that effort
may be relative to other efforts.

You sit back and judge others for their contribution, for
their service to the Lord. That's not your right. It's not
for you to do. And with that degree to which you judge it
will be given back to you.

> You don't "feel safe" in your work environment? Boy, it is _nothing_
> compared to the terror you would feel if you had any idea what you were
> dealing with or whose name you use. You want to go around and "speak
> boldly"? You think you're bold? LOL! Wait until you hear a voice that's
> really bold. I can see it may have never happened.

There are people who win court cases over these types of
mental anguish issues. The pressure people can feel in
their mental state is a tremendous cause for burden, loss,
gain, exaltation. It is our flesh, and the sin that lives
within our flesh, at work against us in this world.

I feel oppression in this world just going out into it.
They have a new policy here at local gas stations in Indiana
where they play music at the gas pumps. It's always worldly
music which sings about things that are unholy. I don't
know how to respond to that, and I feel stress and pressure
every time I have to go and fill up my tank.

The enemy is using these attacks against all Christians to
diminish them in their walk. But, the Lord warned us in
advance this would happen, and His grace is sufficient. We
go forth and do the best we can, and it is ultimately to
Him we are accountable.

> I believe God must be the most loving being because even after a crime
> of the scale like the one in that picture forgiveness and salvation is
> still on offer for humans.

You are correct. But that crime you see there perpetrated
against our temporary flesh is not on the same scale of that
which will happen to human souls in Hell for all eternity.

It is important for that individual to have food and to be
able to live, but even if they do not have food and do not
live, still their eternal soul can be saved.

For those who reject Jesus Christ, reject truth, there is
a far worse end than that image of their soul eternally
perishing in Hell.

> It is the most merciful thing ever, who else
> would ever accommodate it than Christ. You want something more? You want
> to not be persecuted or not be murdered or have a pleasant work
> environment? It's not on offer sorry. Grace through Christ is all you

> _might_ get. And know what? HE IS BEING .. GENEROUS!!!

I am not unwilling to die for Christ. I do not want to
die, but I am prepared to die if need be, because I know
to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

It is to the eternal loss of those who would kill us (kill
Christians) that I have concerns and focus. It is in the
outreach to those who will still be saved that I move by
having these many teachings.

I do not want /ANYONE/ to enter in to Hell. And I will
do my part to prevent it by these teachings. They are
given for those who will be saved, not for those who will
not be saved.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

On 09/16/2018 11:13 AM, David Brown wrote:

Jesus Christ also really liked attention, too.

[James Moe]

On 9/15/18 10:04 AM, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:

> As a Bopper (Biblically oriented programmer) I wouldn't
> feel comfortable working for a lot of companies in 2018.
>

You are not a conservative, a political stance; you are a religious
zealot, probably an extremist. You wish to use your religious beliefs as
cover for bigotry.
Why would you not feel safe?

--
James Moe
jmm-list at sohnen-moe dot com
Think.

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 16 September 2018 15:11:00 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 07:51 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> > Snipping confused nonsense that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
>
> I'm going to do something I don't normally do here. You say,
> "Snipping confused nonsense..."
>
> I want to ask you specifically, which parts do you equate to
> being confused? Because I can teach you the truth about why
> I wrote what I wrote, cite Bible verses, explain further. I
> have not written anything that was confused, but I am willing
> to teach you the reasons why I wrote what I wrote, so that the
> mis-thinking you have today can be corrected and replaced with
> the truth, rather than an assumed confusion / wrongness.

I wrote and you quoted:

> USA is full of sharks searching for any opportunities to make
> money. There a company worth anything that makes bigoted statements
> will be trolled into taking discriminating actions against employee
> or customer and then sued successfully.

To that you replied with your confused views about the laws and
government in USA and how god is in control. God may be in control
but suggests to obey human authorities (1 Peter 2:13) (Romans 13:1).
So if your bigoted actions are in conflict with human laws then
god won't defend you.

>
> > I did not talk about god or religion. God may take whatever thrones,
> > to express whatever desires and to take whatever actions.
> > However religious zealots have no rights of god but have to abide the
> > local laws. Otherwise evil people will troll the morons into misery
> > for to get a little material benefit or sometimes "just for lulz".
>
> Your statement here conveys a misunderstanding of what I
> wrote. Did you read what I wrote?

I there just repeated in different words what I wrote. What you wrote
did not address it. Instead you just demonstrated that you apparently
haven't ever been in place where human government is not in control.
About that I did not write at all.

[David Brown]

On 16/09/18 18:04, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 11:13 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> ...You have no idea about me, what I know, what I have investigated or
>> learned.
>
> Jesus said twice in Matthew 7:16,20 "You will know them by
> their fruit":
>
>
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A16%2C20%2CEphesians+5%3A9&version=KJV
>
>
>> You think that you have a monopoly in the "truth" and that the only
>> reason people don't all follow your beliefs is that you they are not
>> reading the Bible correctly.  You are wrong - it is as simple as that.
>
> I have never said that one time, David.  I have said that
> all people who seek the truth will find it.  And that's not
> me saying that, that's me repeating what the Bible teaches.

You don't accept that anyone can have found "truth" unless they happen
to have found the same "truth" as you believe . You are convinced that
you have a monopoly on truth - and what's worse, you think that you can
hide this from yourself and others by denying it.

>
>>> You won't listen.  It will be to your soul's destruction.
>>
>> Then let that be /my/ decision, not yours - you are not
>> in judgement over me.
>
> I never claimed to be in judgment over you.  I teach you
> that there is /ONE/ who is in judgment over you, and He
> is unrelenting, save the grace given by His Son.
>
> You do not know the teachings of the Bible, David.  They
> command us (Christians) to go forth and teach people these
> things.  Your teaching is for me to be silent and let each
> person discover for themselves about God.  That teaching
> is from the anti-Christ whom you follow today.
>

Again, you know nothing about me. You have no idea what I have read in
the Bible or learned from other places. You have no idea what
Christians I know, what we have discussed. You have no idea if I have
seen what is in the Bible, and follow it in the way I interpret it, or
reject it, or ignore it, or - as you and everyone else does - follow
some things and not others. You have no idea at all. All you know is
that I do not believe the same things you do, and in your unbounded
arrogance you think that makes me evil and you can insult me and accuse
me of anything you like - such as pronouncing judgement that I am a
"follower of the anti-Christ". Your level of selfishness, narcissism
and arrogance is an insult to Christians everywhere - and a close rival
to Mr. Wood "I'm the reincarnation of Noah and Jesus' appointed guardian
of C++" Brian.

[David Brown]

As I said, you know /nothing/ about me - and I'll thank you to remember
that and stop passing judgement on me.

The world is full of /good/ - if there really is a god, you must hate
him thoroughly given how much you despair of the world he made.

But yes, there is evil in the world - far too much. And no, I would not
have people be silent about it. I can't solve all the world's problems
- but when someone spreads the evil of bigotry, prejudice and hatred
against people based on their sexuality, I shout out against it. I
would have /you/ be silent about your particular weird cult, or at least
keep it for those who are interested. And I would have religious nuts
like yourself get off your sanctimonious arses and do something /useful/
about the evil you claim to care so much about - instead of wringing
your hands, "praying", and inventing make-believe scapegoats.

>
> Those who are like me will soon be murdered by those who are
> like you and David because we will continue to speak boldly
> about Jesus Christ, that He is the /ONLY/ way to salvation,
> and that all other paths lead to destruction in Hellfire for-
> ever.

No one is going to murder you - you are not important enough for anyone
to bother. You might find someone will hit you over the head to make
you shut up, but it will not be me or anyone remotely like me.

>
> We are called to bring Jesus to the forefront of all our
> endeavors.  That is what Brian is doing with his labors by
> his long-established witness.

"Witness" - that's a laugh. Do you think using the wrong word often
enough makes it right?

>
>> Know what I think? I think God doesn't give one damn how "persecuted"
>> the OP felt at his cushy job with IBM or how uncomfortable he feels as
>> a "Christian on the Internet." As a Christian I guess I bet my soul on
>> that position. so be it. OP tells others to "repent" when one should
>> surely consider carefully their own.
>
> You should read the Bible and replace assumed supposition
> with true fact.
>

If /you/ ever read it without your blinkers and your assumptions in
place, you'd find it is all about a guy who believed in love, respect,
freedom, tolerance and forgiveness. I see very little of that in
someone who claims almost everyone else is a devil worshipper, or in
people who spread mindless hatred and persecution of people based on
their sexuality.

[Ian Collins]

On 16/09/18 23:49, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 07:25 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> But God has not changed.  He has condemned homosexuality and
>> cited it as a sin in the Old Testament and New Testament, one
>> which leads to eternal separation from God in Hell.
>
> Here are the Biblical references in the New Testament to homo-
> sexuality being a sin that separates one from God forever:

So not only does your deceptive "god" create a universe where all of the
physical evidence points to it not being a recent creation but people
who born to be condemned by their nature? A truly evil god indeed.

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 03:01 PM, bitrex wrote:
> Jesus Christ also really liked attention, too.

Jesus did not like attention in the traditional sense. He
desired that people would know about how God has come to
rescue them from their sin.

He came to do His Father's will, to be a servant, to be
our Savior.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 03:23 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Sunday, 16 September 2018 15:11:00 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 07:51 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>> Snipping confused nonsense that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
>>
>> I'm going to do something I don't normally do here. You say,
>> "Snipping confused nonsense..."
>>
>> I want to ask you specifically, which parts do you equate to
>> being confused? Because I can teach you the truth about why
>> I wrote what I wrote, cite Bible verses, explain further. I
>> have not written anything that was confused, but I am willing
>> to teach you the reasons why I wrote what I wrote, so that the
>> mis-thinking you have today can be corrected and replaced with
>> the truth, rather than an assumed confusion / wrongness.
>
> I wrote and you quoted:
> > USA is full of sharks searching for any opportunities to make
> > money. There a company worth anything that makes bigoted statements
> > will be trolled into taking discriminating actions against employee
> > or customer and then sued successfully.
>
> To that you replied with your confused views about the laws and
> government in USA and how god is in control. God may be in control
> but suggests to obey human authorities (1 Peter 2:13) (Romans 13:1).
> So if your bigoted actions are in conflict with human laws then
> god won't defend you.

My comment was /AGAINST/ the way companies are behaving, be-
cause companies are comprised of human beings who are not first
walking in this world as they should.

Human beings are called to serve God individually. When they
do not serve God, they come together and follow after Satan.
God allows this to give us something to rise up against, to
speak out against, to seek to change.

And we read in the New Testament that eventually the enemy
will take over all industries, all nations, and will throw
truth to the ground.

That does not mean we /EVER/ acquiesce to that wrongness when
it explicitly goes against God and God's guidance. The hier-
archy I wrote stands:

1) God's Law
2) Man's law
3) Personal opinions not otherwise stated

>>> I did not talk about god or religion. God may take whatever thrones,
>>> to express whatever desires and to take whatever actions.
>>> However religious zealots have no rights of god but have to abide the
>>> local laws. Otherwise evil people will troll the morons into misery
>>> for to get a little material benefit or sometimes "just for lulz".
>>
>> Your statement here conveys a misunderstanding of what I
>> wrote. Did you read what I wrote?
>
> I there just repeated in different words what I wrote. What you wrote
> did not address it. Instead you just demonstrated that you apparently
> haven't ever been in place where human government is not in control.
> About that I did not write at all.

It did. You missed the point I was making.

All people are subject to God. Even if they go about in this
world making laws which make abortion legal, or make it not
only legal but required that someone take the mark to buy or
sell anything, that doesn't make it right, nor does it make
it something for us to follow.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 03:29 PM, David Brown wrote:
> On 16/09/18 18:04, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 11:13 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> ...You have no idea about me, what I know, what I have investigated
>>> or learned.
>>
>> Jesus said twice in Matthew 7:16,20 "You will know them by
>> their fruit":
>>
>>
>> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A16%2C20%2CEphesians+5%3A9&version=KJV
>>
>>
>>> You think that you have a monopoly in the "truth" and that the only
>>> reason people don't all follow your beliefs is that you they are not
>>> reading the Bible correctly.  You are wrong - it is as simple as that.
>>
>> I have never said that one time, David.  I have said that
>> all people who seek the truth will find it.  And that's not
>> me saying that, that's me repeating what the Bible teaches.
>
> You don't accept that anyone can have found "truth" unless they happen
> to have found the same "truth" as you believe.

It's what Jesus said, not me:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A6&version=KJV

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your problem is with Jesus Christ, David, not me. I just
repeat his words.

As for the rest, you /CONSISTENTLY/ bear witness against
yourself, against Christ, and for full-on support of the
enemy of God.

I would love to be wrong about that assessment, David, but
it is exactly what you do and have done. You reject Jesus
Christ fully, and you criticize everyone who tries to teach
about Him, even though He is the one thing we need more than
even air or water.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I do not pass judgment on you. I ascribe your actions
to you, as they compare against the teachings of Jesus
Christ. You reject Jesus, and you embrace the anti-
Christ spirit.

That's not judgment. That's your witness. It's also
why I warn you about your sin, so you can repent and
ask Jesus to forgive you, David.

> The world is full of /good/ - if there really is a god, you must hate
> him thoroughly given how much you despair of the world he made.

Heaven will be full of sinners who repented. Hell will
be full of sinners who never repented.

The choice is yours. Examine Jesus, David. Do it again
if you've done it before. Continue until you learn the
truth.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You have at least two misconceptions here, Ian.

1) That God created a universe with physical evidence
leading to something other than creation
2) That people are born gay

Sin is the culprit in both cases, Ian. You have much
sin in your life, Ian, which is why you embrace the
false teachings of the anti-Christ spirit.

Until you seek the truth, you will never find it.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

Well to clarify Jesus the _man_ certainly did. From time to time. Some
days he was humble. Other days he liked adulation and praise and to be
the center of attention.

Jesus the man could be a downright jerk sometimes, e.g. flipping over
the money-changer's tables and throwing a fit. Yeah some of them were
cheats no doubt but probably others weren't "bad" at all they were just
trying to earn a living to provide for their family. The temple happened
to be where they set up shop because people tended to gather in large
numbers there, you get more customers there than way out in the desert.

As far as I know it doesn't say anywhere that Jesus interrogated each
one as to their honesty, or not, prior to doing it.

Jesus the man was mortal with most of the stuff that comes along with
that so it would seem natural that he would think and behave different
ways at different times in the way that mortals do.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 04:08 PM, bitrex wrote:

> On 09/16/2018 03:53 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 03:01 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> Jesus Christ also really liked attention, too.
>>
>> Jesus did not like attention in the traditional sense.  He
>> desired that people would know about how God has come to
>> rescue them from their sin.
>>
>> He came to do His Father's will, to be a servant, to be
>> our Savior.
>
> Well to clarify Jesus the _man_ certainly did. From time to time. Some
> days he was humble. Other days he liked adulation and praise and to be
> the center of attention.

Cite Bible verses to backup your claim.

> Jesus the man could be a downright jerk sometimes, e.g. flipping over
> the money-changer's tables and throwing a fit. Yeah some of them were
> cheats no doubt but probably others weren't "bad" at all they were just
> trying to earn a living to provide for their family. The temple happened
> to be where they set up shop because people tended to gather in large
> numbers there, you get more customers there than way out in the desert.

You presume to know better than Jesus. That is almost
the worst sin you can employ.

> As far as I know it doesn't say anywhere that Jesus interrogated each
> one as to their honesty, or not, prior to doing it.

He didn't have to. The Bible says that He knew their
thoughts. In addition, He had no sin at that point,
so He was in constant communion with the Father, whose
Holy Spirit dwelt within the physical man, and as such
He would know spiritually the state of things truthfully
from the Father.

> Jesus the man was mortal with most of the stuff that comes along with
> that so it would seem natural that he would think and behave different
> ways at different times in the way that mortals do.

You have no idea what you're speaking about, bitrex.
You are heaping punishment and damnation upon your soul
as you speak falsely about Jesus, about God, about the
Holy Spirit, and about His witness here on this Earth.

It is a terrible place to be. I am fearful of you in
your brazen attitude against God.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Ian Collins]

On 17/09/18 08:07, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 03:49 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 16/09/18 23:49, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.swapon.de!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
> Subject: Re: Conservative employees "don't feel safe"
> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 16:05:43 -0400
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 69
> Message-ID: <pnmd2o$2ff$1...@dont-email.me>
> References: <68b86003-d77d-4f09...@googlegroups.com>
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>>> On 09/16/2018 07:25 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> But God has not changed.  He has condemned homosexuality and
>>>> cited it as a sin in the Old Testament and New Testament, one
>>>> which leads to eternal separation from God in Hell.
>>>
>>> Here are the Biblical references in the New Testament to homo-
>>> sexuality being a sin that separates one from God forever:
>>
>> So not only does your deceptive "god" create a universe where all of the
>> physical evidence points to it not being a recent creation but people
>> who born to be condemned by their nature?  A truly evil god indeed.
>
> You have at least two misconceptions here, Ian.
>
> 1) That God created a universe with physical evidence
> leading to something other than creation
> 2) That people are born gay
>
> Sin is the culprit in both cases, Ian. You have much
> sin in your life, Ian, which is why you embrace the
> false teachings of the anti-Christ spirit.

So you really are as much of a bigoted twat as Brian. Your kind are no
better than the extremists who blemish other faiths who you would brand
as terrorists.

--
Ian.

[bitrex]

It says no such thing. When Jesus knew people's thoughts the Bible says
so explicitly. None of the relevant verses in the Synoptic Gospels say
anything about him knowing the money-changer's thoughts. Not Matthew.
Not Mark. Not Luke. Not John. It seems like an important detail to leave
out?

Matthew 9:4 "And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, 'Wherefore think ye
evil in your hearts?'"

That was a different situation.

[bitrex]

I don't believe Jesus the carpenter's son had the ability to read the
minds of everyone he encountered, no.

[Öö Tiib]

All I wrote was that they should abide human laws. They should
because otherwise they will be punished by governing institutions
and if they believe in your Arabian fairy tales then they should
by those too I gave cites above. So if you call them to break laws
then you are calling them to not do what your own book tells to.

>
> >>> I did not talk about god or religion. God may take whatever thrones,
> >>> to express whatever desires and to take whatever actions.
> >>> However religious zealots have no rights of god but have to abide the
> >>> local laws. Otherwise evil people will troll the morons into misery
> >>> for to get a little material benefit or sometimes "just for lulz".
> >>
> >> Your statement here conveys a misunderstanding of what I
> >> wrote. Did you read what I wrote?
> >
> > I there just repeated in different words what I wrote. What you wrote
> > did not address it. Instead you just demonstrated that you apparently
> > haven't ever been in place where human government is not in control.
> > About that I did not write at all.
>
> It did. You missed the point I was making.
>
> All people are subject to God. Even if they go about in this
> world making laws which make abortion legal, or make it not
> only legal but required that someone take the mark to buy or
> sell anything, that doesn't make it right, nor does it make
> it something for us to follow.

Again you simply write confused nonsense. What abortion? Gays do not
make each other pregnant. And no law requires you to commit abortion.
What mark? Are you now talking about how everybody carry mark of beast
on forehead or right arm? Where? Are you gone mad or just pretend?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

> So you really are as much of a bigoted .. as Brian.  Your kind are no

> better than the extremists who blemish other faiths who you would brand
> as terrorists.

You say that because you have much sin in your life, Ian,
and you embrace the false teachings of the anti-Christ
spirit ahead of God's teachings. The anti-Christ spirit
is the enemy of God, and he teaches that God's ways are
wrong, and that his anti-Christ teachings are right. You
embrace his teachings because you are still in rebellion

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You fail to understand the relationship between the flesh
and the spirit. God the Father was with Jesus continually.
Jesus was a man, but He was also God. He lived in the flesh,
but the spirit that indwelt Him was the Holy Spirit. As such,
as God He knew everything. As a man He was here in this world
doing the will of the Father.

> Matthew 9:4 "And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, 'Wherefore think ye
> evil in your hearts?'"
>
> That was a different situation.

It doesn't say, "Jesus only knew their thoughts in this one
moment, and said..."

It also says in John that He knew what was in a man, in the
heart of man, and that He knew all men. It says in the Old
Testament that before He formed someone in his mother's womb
He knew him.

God is all-knowing, all-seeing, tries the reins of each one's
heart, knows the intents and purposes. That's God the Father,
and by His Holy Spirit, Jesus was able to know all things at
His request of His Father. The only things kept from Jesus
the man were those things the Father chose to keep from Him
so Jesus could carry out His purposes here. But the full
rein and weight of His Father's power was at His disposal,
even when He was yet upon the cross He could've summoned legions
of angels to come and rescue Him, but it would have done nothing
for us.

You mischaracterize God because you do not understand the spirit
nature. You ascribe only physical abilities to Jesus, because
you do not know the three-fold nature of man, save what you may
have read in books about it. You have never experienced the
born again spirit nature, and had His Holy Spirit confirm within
you His presence, to give you knowledge beyond your ability to
know in the moment, and so on.

If you want to seek the truth, bitrex, then seek it. Until you
stop judging God based on your personal beliefs about things,
the truth will be forever hidden from you.

You must humble yourself to receive the truth.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 04:40 PM, bitrex wrote:
> I don't believe Jesus the carpenter's son had the ability to read the
> minds of everyone he encountered, no.

The man didn't. The spirit indwelling Him did.

Learn about the triune nature of God, and of us. He is God
the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, just as we are soul, body,
and spirit, being made in His own image and likeness.

Because of sin our spirit is dead. But Jesus had no sin,
and the Holy Spirit came to indwell Him when He was bap-
tized in the Jordan River by John the Baptist. It descended
upon Him like a dove and Him and remained. All of the many
miracles He did were done by that spirit. All of the super-
natural knowledge He had came from that spirit.

It is the nature we are supposed to have on this world, but
sin separates us from God. When we come to Jesus and ask
Him to forgive our sin, our sin goes away, and we are no
longer under judgment by God. As such, our spirit comes
alive in that instant, and we are forever changed. Our new
spirit nature confirms and affirms the things of God in our
lives, and the Bible teachings are God's written word to
allow us to discern the spirit of truth from the spirit of
falseness.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 04:42 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Sunday, 16 September 2018 22:58:48 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> My comment was /AGAINST/ the way companies are behaving, be-
>> cause companies are comprised of human beings who are not first
>> walking in this world as they should.
>
> All I wrote was that they should abide human laws. They should
> because otherwise they will be punished by governing institutions
> and if they believe in your Arabian fairy tales then they should
> by those too I gave cites above. So if you call them to break laws
> then you are calling them to not do what your own book tells to.

I have told you the truth, Öö Tiib. God calls /ALL PEOPLE
EVERYWHERE/ to follow Him. Those who are in rebellion go
their own way against God, and God allows it as part of their
rebellion against Him for His purposes. But all who are His
are not to follow after un-Biblical teachings.

That does not mean the letter of the Law of Moses, for that
is the Old Testament. We are in a new age of grace, but still
the spirit of the Law remains in God's guidance for us by His
Holy Spirit, under grace.

>> It did. You missed the point I was making.
>>
>> All people are subject to God. Even if they go about in this
>> world making laws which make abortion legal, or make it not
>> only legal but required that someone take the mark to buy or
>> sell anything, that doesn't make it right, nor does it make
>> it something for us to follow.
>
> Again you simply write confused nonsense. What abortion? Gays do not
> make each other pregnant. And no law requires you to commit abortion.
> What mark? Are you now talking about how everybody carry mark of beast
> on forehead or right arm? Where? Are you gone mad or just pretend?

Again, you missed the point I was making. Why? Because you
have known the truth in your very core (Romans 1), and you
choose to reject it and say it is not the truth.

You condemn yourself before God by your willful ignorance.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

I guess there's little I could do to convince you I have other than to
repeat your own words back to you. But then I would be guilty of
copyright infringement.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 05:02 PM, bitrex wrote:
> I guess there's little I could do to convince you I have other than to
> repeat your own words back to you. But then I would be guilty of
> copyright infringement.

I'm willing to receive rebuke or correction where my
teaching is wrong. But if I teach correctly, then you
must re-examine your position.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

On 09/16/2018 04:14 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> You have no idea what you're speaking about, bitrex.
> You are heaping punishment and damnation upon your soul
> as you speak falsely about Jesus, about God, about the
> Holy Spirit, and about His witness here on this Earth.
>
> It is a terrible place to be.  I am fearful of you in
> your brazen attitude against God.

You treat the atheists a lot nicer.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Do you really profess to be a Christian? What is
your testimony? How did Jesus change your life?

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

I believe what is written in the Bible about the life, death, and
resurrection of Christ is true, yes. As for the other questions as to
the hows I kinda feel like you've already turned me away. you won't hear
from me again. Maybe it was your posts! Maybe you would even find that
surprising.

[Öö Tiib]

Adding to confused nonsense does just make you to look more mad.
Abortion (that I don't support) was not topic. Mark of beast
(that I see nowhere) was not topic. Now (Romans 1)? You are not
Paul and you are not called to be an apostle, Rick. So you do not
have a point about what I wrote.

I can repeat once more. The topic was if companies or individuals
have right to discriminate married gays in U.S. They have no such
right. Neither by law nor by your book. Your wiggling away from it
with walls of confused nonsense and curses and condemns is pathetic.
If god dislikes gays then god judges and punishes them. Companies
can't even when you say so because you are not god.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 05:44 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> I can repeat once more. The topic was if companies or individuals
> have right to discriminate married gays in U.S.

My point is that God's authority on this matter supersedes
the authority of man.

Jesus doesn't call us to discriminate against people, but
He does call us to teach them the truth. Those who are
following after the anti-Christ spirit will call that bigotry,
hatred, etc., for teaching people what Jesus calls us all to.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Siri Cruise]

In article <d986c8e4-6fec-48fe...@googlegroups.com>,

Öö Tiib <oot...@hot.ee> wrote:

> Adding to confused nonsense does just make you to look more mad.
> Abortion (that I don't support) was not topic. Mark of beast
> (that I see nowhere) was not topic. Now (Romans 1)? You are not
> Paul and you are not called to be an apostle, Rick. So you do not
> have a point about what I wrote.

Paul was upset with temple prostitution.

If I remember Revelations correctly, the faithful humans are there as witnesses,
not agents. I don't remember humans having a role is starting or delaying
armageddeon. I will note that regardless of a general armageddeon, everyone
reading this will have a personal armageddeon within a century. So try to be
your best as you define it, and recognise the people around you are also trying
to be their best.

I'm suspicious of people who feel they need to repeatedly tell their god when
he's supposed to end the world. He's ignored them so far; maybe they should just
settle down and try to have faith their god knows what's he doing.

> I can repeat once more. The topic was if companies or individuals
> have right to discriminate married gays in U.S. They have no such

I'm pretty sure it's legal to discriminate on sexuality in some parts of US,
whether married or still sowing their alternative wild oats. Wild rice grains?
Successful software businesses are tolerant because top programmers come in all
kinds shapes and alternative sizes, so why hurt your business over irrelevant
details.

> If god dislikes gays then god judges and punishes them. Companies
> can't even when you say so because you are not god.

Rick has been instructed according to the gospels (1) Jesus didn't talk about
gays or abortions, (2) Jesus did talk about not judging people, and (3) Jesus
did prohibit his followers from annoying people. He sent missionaries out; if a
village accepted them, enjoy their company; elseways when a village rejected
them, leave without rancor or argument. Rick violates multiple teachings from
the gospel.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
An almond doesn't lactate. This post / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice. insults Islam. Mohammed

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:02 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> Rick has been instructed according to the gospels (1) Jesus didn't talk about
> gays or abortions,

Jesus declared marriage in Matthew 19, stating even that
if a person gets a divorce, the one who marries her commits
adultery, meaning the marriage never ended.

Jesus also guided Paul by His Holy Spirit to write what I
posted previously in Romans 1, 1 Timothy 6, and 1 Corinthians
6:9-10:

Jesus declaring Paul to be His chosen vessel to take
the message to the gentiles, making Paul's later writings
on homosexuality inspired writings by God's own Holy
Spirit, who is Jesus in spirit:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+9&version=KJV

11 And the Lord said unto [Ananias], Arise, and go into the
street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house
of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he
prayeth,

Note: Saul of Tarsus is Paul.

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in,
and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his
sight.

15 ... Go thy way [Ananias]: for [Saul] is a chosen vessel
unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings,
and the children of Israel:

You can read the full context at the link above.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10%2C1+Timothy+1%3A9-10%2CRomans+1%3A18-32&version=NIV

> (2) Jesus did talk about not judging people,

He also talked about judging people:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+7%3A24&version=KJV

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but
judge righteous judgment.

> and (3) Jesus
> did prohibit his followers from annoying people. He sent missionaries out; if a
> village accepted them, enjoy their company; elseways when a village rejected
> them, leave without rancor or argument. Rick violates multiple teachings from
> the gospel.

When I am at your house, or at an event sponsored by you,
I will leave when asked to do so. But this is a public
forum, akin to speaking on a public road.

Not everyone does not want to hear these messages. Some
are inspired by them. I get emails from people periodically
who are inspired by and moved by the teachings I post.

Regardless, I typically post things which are significant
or in response to things other people post as part of a
pattern of life. I do this in my real life, online, and in
all places I am.

It's why I invite people to come and speak to me personally
in Indianapolis if they are ever passing through on an air-
plane layover. I would meet them and they can speak to me
and ask me questions about my life and see that I am not
full of hot air and speeches, but am a true servant of God
doing my best to serve Him in the things I do in this world.
I fail a lot, but I am continuing to pick myself back up,
dust myself off, regroup and press ahead again.

The enemy we fight in this world is formidable. A person
must be truly up on their game to be able to withstand him.
And God does let that enemy knock us down from time to time
to remind us of who we are, and who He is.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:02 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:

> (1) Jesus didn't talk about gays or abortions,

You fail to understand the nature of God. Jesus is not
just a man. He is God. He is the same one who gave Moses
the Law. He's the same one whose Holy Spirit guides those
who are born again after Pentecost, who guided the prophets
to speak.

The things recorded in the Old Testament /ARE/ Jesus' voice
given to man.

They didn't call it abortion back then. They called it
child sacrifice, or infanticide.

God set His people apart and made sure they did not have
such practices. He even established special rules in the
Law of Moses for damage done to a pregnant woman which
caused her to lose her baby.

He declares that before He formed us in our mother's
womb, He knew us.

Jesus has addressed issues of children growing in the
womb, how precious life is, that death is the result of
sin, and on and on and on.

-----
You do not know what you are talking about Siri. You
have a freshman level of knowledge about the Bible, yet
you presume to teach, and you teach people falsely,
which is to your grandest discredit:


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18%3A6-7&version=NIV

6 "If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who
believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them
to have a large millstone hung around their neck and
to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause
people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe
to the person through whom they come! ..."

Care about yourself and your future. Learn the truth right-
ly before you open your mouth and teach.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Mr Flibble]

Fuck off you egregious homophobic misogynistic bigoted cunt.

*Hears applause*

I thank you.

/Flibble

--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a
world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."

[Öö Tiib]

On Monday, 17 September 2018 01:48:44 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/16/2018 05:44 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> > I can repeat once more. The topic was if companies or individuals
> > have right to discriminate married gays in U.S.
> My point is that God's authority on this matter supersedes
> the authority of man.

That may be so and I have repeated several times that god is free to
express and enforce his will and authority in any way he wants to.
You are certainly not god and so your authority is self-proclaimed
and non-existent both by law and by your own book (Matthew 7:1).
Companies have no right to discriminate gays even if they wanted
to. Saying that they have such right is not teaching Jesus. It is
teaching bigotry, hatred and lies.

> Jesus doesn't call us to discriminate against people, but
> He does call us to teach them the truth.

Jon Snow to Sansa Stark: What did father use to say? Everything before
the word "but" is horse shit.
Game of Thrones – Season 7 Episode 1

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:34 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Monday, 17 September 2018 01:48:44 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 09/16/2018 05:44 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>> I can repeat once more. The topic was if companies or individuals
>>> have right to discriminate married gays in U.S.
>> My point is that God's authority on this matter supersedes
>> the authority of man.
>
> That may be so and I have repeated several times that god is free to
> express and enforce his will and authority in any way he wants to.

/This is my point/, Öö Tiib. God has /already/ told us
what He will do, what He will judge, and He's given us
His Son so that we can /escape/ that judgment.

Do you not understand this correlation? God is in full
control. Every thing a person does in this world will
be brought under judgment and scrutiny, /UNLESS/ they
come to Jesus and ask forgiveness, in which case they
won't be judged for sin, but only given rewards for what
they did for the Lord.

> You are certainly not god and so your authority is self-proclaimed
> and non-existent both by law and by your own book (Matthew 7:1).

I do not proclaim any self-authority. What I teach you
is that God is the authority, and that you have a full
obligation to Him, Öö Tiib. You are accountable to Him
and will, upon your death, give a full account of your
life. This will include your sin, unless you come to
Jesus and ask Him to forgive your sin.

This is the important message. Try and consider what
I am saying for real.

> Companies have no right to discriminate gays even if they wanted
> to. Saying that they have such right is not teaching Jesus. It is
> teaching bigotry, hatred and lies.

You have completely missed the point of my posts.

>> Jesus doesn't call us to discriminate against people, but
>> He does call us to teach them the truth.
>
> Jon Snow to Sansa Stark: What did father use to say? Everything before

> the word "but" is horse .. .

> Game of Thrones – Season 7 Episode 1

Öö Tiib to God on judgment day: "I thought I was right."

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Siri Cruise]

In article <NvOdnbNOvZDIegPG...@giganews.com>,

Mr Flibble <flibbleREM...@i42.co.uk> wrote:

> Fuck off you egregious homophobic misogynistic bigoted cunt.

Shake the dust of Rick's village from your Birkenstocks. Pax vobiscum.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/16/2018 07:29 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> .. off you egregious homophobic misogynistic bigoted .. .

Leigh, my concern is for your eternal soul. It's not
any form of homophobia. One of my co-workers is a gay
man. We work on the same project together. He has the
office across the hall from my office. He's our main
project lead.

You misunderstand the purposes of my teachings on homo-
sexuality, and indeed all sin.

God has revealed what He will judge. No one with un-
forgiven sin will escape eternal justice. I teach you
this now so you have the opportunity to repent and ask
forgiveness today ... because tomorrow may never come.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Ian Collins]

A pox on you for having the conceit to judge others and for
denigrating a victimised minority group. I suppose you subscribe to
those fuckwit "gay conversion" therapies.

--
Ian.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

https://youtu.be/8qpCyUYRLFM

(Butters goes to anti-gay christian camp)

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the U.S., people often claim "Separation of church and state."
> That's not a Constitutional wording found anywhere, but it is
> a reference to something voice in a letter, a philosophy by our
> Thomas Jefferson, conveying a sentiment that's different than
> most people ascribe to it.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
means literally and unambiguously that the government must not pass any
law that favors one particular religion over others. Having some kind of
"state church" or official religion of the state (which was the case, and
is still the case, in England and many other European countries) is
categorically forbidden.

Representatives can be religious themselves, of course (that's their
constitutional right), but they must not pass any law favoring their
religion. In this way you are completely incorrect in asserting that
religion has a place in government, that it "doesn't mean to keep
religion out of government." It most definitely does.

If the government passes any law that, for example, grants some rights
or protections to a religion, that same law must apply to all religions
without discrimination. No religion can be considered special and have
unique special privileges.

[Juha Nieminen]

jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
> Le 16/09/2018 à 06:41, Juha Nieminen a écrit :
>> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>>>> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
>>>> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
>>>> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.
>>>
>>> Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.
>>
>> It's a good thing not to support marriage? Can you elaborate?
>>
>
> Companies are there to make money, not to give their employees
> directions about how to live their lives!

It's one thing to say that companies should take no stance on such things
as marriage. A different thing is to active "not support marriage". When
he says that that's a "good decision", it sounds like he's saying that
it's good for companies to actively not support marriage. In other words,
it sounds like he's saying that it's good if companies oppose marriage.

[David Brown]

On 17/09/18 11:26, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>> Le 16/09/2018 à 06:41, Juha Nieminen a écrit :
>>> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>>>>> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
>>>>> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
>>>>> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.
>>>
>>> It's a good thing not to support marriage? Can you elaborate?
>>>
>>
>> Companies are there to make money, not to give their employees
>> directions about how to live their lives!
>
> It's one thing to say that companies should take no stance on such things
> as marriage. A different thing is to active "not support marriage".

There is nothing to indicate that IBM or any other companies "do not
support marriage". Brian's complaint about them is that the companies
have refused to support groups that campaign /against/ some kinds of
marriage - namely, same-sex marriages.

I think it is normal for a company to have no interest or stance on
marriage - it simply is not part of their business. A company should
take care of its employees, and support them and their rights. That
means they should not campaign /against/ their right to marriage, but it
does not need to have an active stance /for/ those rights unless they
are being seriously threatened.

Brian's company is apparently actively against some kinds of marriage
and against human rights in regard to sexuality, and that must of course
be condemned.

> When
> he says that that's a "good decision", it sounds like he's saying that
> it's good for companies to actively not support marriage. In other words,
> it sounds like he's saying that it's good if companies oppose marriage.
>

When Jacob says "good decision", he was being somewhat sarcastic - he
meant that it was a "good decision" for Brian to avoid IBM, Southwest
Airlines, and everything else.

(It is not always easy to communicate and understand the full meaning of
posts like these, especially with people coming from different
countries, having different cultures and different ways to express things.)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

> .. "gay conversion" therapies.

You misunderstand, Ian. If you want to know the truth, it
is before you. You can receive it.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 5:19 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the U.S., people often claim "Separation of church and state."
>> That's not a Constitutional wording found anywhere, but it is
>> a reference to something voice in a letter, a philosophy by our
>> Thomas Jefferson, conveying a sentiment that's different than
>> most people ascribe to it.
>
> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
> means literally and unambiguously that the government must not pass any
> law that favors one particular religion over others. Having some kind of
> "state church" or official religion of the state (which was the case, and
> is still the case, in England and many other European countries) is
> categorically forbidden.

Agreed.

> Representatives can be religious themselves, of course (that's their
> constitutional right), but they must not pass any law favoring their
> religion.

Correct.

> In this way you are completely incorrect in asserting that
> religion has a place in government, that it "doesn't mean to keep
> religion out of government." It most definitely does.

Wrong. It means you cannot pass a law upholding the Christian
Bible, or saying that we should all be Catholics.

What it does mean is that a highly religious person can enter
into office and propose laws one after the other which align
with religious values (such as making abortion illegal, or
making it illegal to get a divorce, or other such thing).

They just cannot ascribe it in the law to a religion. It must
have its own unique wording.

> If the government passes any law that, for example, grants some rights
> or protections to a religion, that same law must apply to all religions
> without discrimination. No religion can be considered special and have
> unique special privileges.

Correct.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>> Le 16/09/2018 à 06:41, Juha Nieminen a écrit :
>>> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>>>>> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
>>>>> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
>>>>> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.
>>>
>>> It's a good thing not to support marriage? Can you elaborate?

It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
being between one man and one woman, which is the type
of marriage God decreed.

It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
literally keeps one out of Heaven.

It is for the sake of the eternal souls of the individuals
who are deceived by the enemy that rises to the top of our
concern list, not trying to prevent people from having full,
rich, happy, productive lives with love abounding. It is
that we teach people that the love abounding must be of a
godly form, meaning prescribed by God, and not simply given
to us as an option, and especially one given to us by God's
enemy (Satan, the anti-Christ) who purposefully twists the
things which exist to do harm to people, and to go against
God's guidance.

Brian's position about leaving the company was on principle,
upholding God in his life, and shunning worldliness that
would force him to compromise.

>> Companies are there to make money, not to give their employees
>> directions about how to live their lives!
>
> It's one thing to say that companies should take no stance on such things
> as marriage. A different thing is to active "not support marriage". When
> he says that that's a "good decision", it sounds like he's saying that
> it's good for companies to actively not support marriage. In other words,
> it sounds like he's saying that it's good if companies oppose marriage.

It's good to work for a company that has Christian values, and
will come together in agreement when there are issues like this
which arise.

A company can be forced into compliance by a law, while still
actively seeking to get that law repealed, for example. If
the entirety of the company is moving in that same direction,
it makes it easier on everybody.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>>> Le 16/09/2018 à 06:41, Juha Nieminen a écrit :
>>>> jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>>>>>> Years ago I worked at IBM and Southwest Airlines, but
>>>>>> their policies are no longer supportive of marriage
>>>>>> (one man + one woman) so I avoid these companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, good decision. Avoid everything then.
>>>>
>>>> It's a good thing not to support marriage? Can you elaborate?
>
> It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
> being between one man and one woman, which is the type
> of marriage God decreed.
>
> It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
> because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
> explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
> literally keeps one out of Heaven.

You can make a personal decision like that if you want - but you can't
push it on other people. If you want to believe that homosexuals are
second-class citizens and are should not be allowed to be themselves and
they are not entitled to the same kind of happiness and family life as
others, you can believe that. But it is /not/ a good thing to go about
spreading such a message of hate and prejudice. Depending on how you do
it, it might be legal and it might not be - there is a balance between
your right to freedom of speech and other people's right not to hear
hate speech.

However, a /company/ certainly cannot take such an attitude. Companies
are legal entities, not moral or religious ones. (I don't care if you
think that is right or wrong - this is simple fact. Similarly, I don't
care if you think the laws involved are right or wrong - they are still
the law.) Companies don't get to break laws against discrimination.
They don't get to say "no blacks allowed", or "only men can program
properly", and they don't get to say "homosexuals shouldn't have rights
like heterosexuals".

Equally, companies do not have to /actively/ support any particular laws
or human rights - they just have to avoid breaking them. A company can
choose to say "we welcome all married people, same-sex or different-sex"
or they can choose to say "your love life is your own business" - they
just can't say "we welcome all married people as long as they are
heterosexual".


As a person, you can of course make your choices. And you can choose to
leave a company because they are actively supportive of heterosexuals'
rights and you are a bigot with a different set of morals. Such
freedoms are important for people, even when it is the freedom to be
ignorant and hateful.

>
> It is for the sake of the eternal souls of the individuals
> who are deceived by the enemy that rises to the top of our
> concern list, not trying to prevent people from having full,
> rich, happy, productive lives with love abounding. It is
> that we teach people that the love abounding must be of a
> godly form, meaning prescribed by God, and not simply given
> to us as an option, and especially one given to us by God's
> enemy (Satan, the anti-Christ) who purposefully twists the
> things which exist to do harm to people, and to go against
> God's guidance.
>
> Brian's position about leaving the company was on principle,
> upholding God in his life, and shunning worldliness that
> would force him to compromise.
>
>>> Companies are there to make money, not to give their employees
>>> directions about how to live their lives!
>>
>> It's one thing to say that companies should take no stance on such things
>> as marriage. A different thing is to active "not support marriage". When
>> he says that that's a "good decision", it sounds like he's saying that
>> it's good for companies to actively not support marriage. In other words,
>> it sounds like he's saying that it's good if companies oppose marriage.
>
> It's good to work for a company that has Christian values, and
> will come together in agreement when there are issues like this
> which arise.

There is nothing wrong with basic Christian values. Homophobia and
bigotry are /not/ Christian values - if you think that condemning people
who love each other is commanded by the Bible, you should read it again.
Try reading about Jesus and what he said, did and thought - rather than
obsessing about ancient rules squeezed in between a ban on oysters and
when to stone kids for being rude.

>
> A company can be forced into compliance by a law, while still
> actively seeking to get that law repealed, for example. If
> the entirety of the company is moving in that same direction,
> it makes it easier on everybody.
>

Fortunately, most people and most companies are moving in the direction
of being caring and compassionate people, or at the very least towards
"what you do at home between consenting adults is your own business".
Misguided moral police as a way of controlling society is on the way out.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 10:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
>> being between one man and one woman, which is the type
>> of marriage God decreed.
>>
>> It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
>> because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
>> explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
>> literally keeps one out of Heaven.
>
> You can make a personal decision like that if you want - but you can't
> push it on other people.

It is the guidance of God I am conveying, not my personal opinion.
It is the /TEACHING/ I am giving you that you /WILL BE JUDGED/ by
God after you leave this world, and unless you accept /HIM AND HIS
GUIDANCE/, then you will perish in your sin.

Your issues is with God, David, not me. I am teaching you those
things God commanded us Christians to teach other people.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Scott Lurndal]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 09/16/2018 07:51 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>> On Sunday, 16 September 2018 14:04:21 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> He's trying to teach you that God is still in control, and that
>>> even though man's laws say to do X, there are still God's laws
>>> which say to either not to do X, or to do Y as well.
>>
>> God is not legal subject
>
>He is the source of all our true and fundamental laws, Öö
>Tiib.

He's a figment of your imagination. Please don't force your
insanity on others.

[David Brown]

On 17/09/18 16:06, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 10:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>> It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
>>> being between one man and one woman, which is the type
>>> of marriage God decreed.
>>>
>>> It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
>>> because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
>>> explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
>>> literally keeps one out of Heaven.
>>
>> You can make a personal decision like that if you want - but you can't
>> push it on other people.
>
> It is the guidance of God I am conveying, not my personal opinion.

Of course it is your personal opinion. And it is your personal opinion
that this somehow all comes from divine sources - but that is /your/
opinion. Other people have different opinions - including others who
believe in god. They just don't share your particular interpretation of
the Bible or Christianity.

> It is the /TEACHING/ I am giving you that you /WILL BE JUDGED/ by
> God after you leave this world, and unless you accept /HIM AND HIS
> GUIDANCE/, then you will perish in your sin.

You've already told us how we are all to blame for sin because someone
long ago stole an apple - and you god, in his "mercy" and "justice",
decided to punish everyone thereafter to eternal damnation. Some people
might say that is overreacting a little, but I guess your opinion
differs there too.

>
> Your issues is with God, David, not me. I am teaching you those
> things God commanded us Christians to teach other people.
>

I have no issues with god - just as I have no issues with the monsters
under my bed. It is /you/ that has declared battle on everyone around you.

And no matter how you often you shout it, you are not teaching anything.
It does not cease to amaze me how blind you are in this. What good do
you think you are doing here? Surely by now you realise that the more
you rant, the less likely it is that anyone will take you seriously?
Anyone who is in the position of being "open" or "searching" who happens
to hear you will be turned off immediately - no sane person would want
to be associated with your kind of cult. (And I know many sane and
smart people who are Christians - they are just not /your/ kind of
pseudo-Christian.)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 10:26 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 17/09/18 16:06, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 9/17/2018 10:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>> It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
>>>> being between one man and one woman, which is the type
>>>> of marriage God decreed.
>>>>
>>>> It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
>>>> because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
>>>> explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
>>>> literally keeps one out of Heaven.
>>>
>>> You can make a personal decision like that if you want - but you can't
>>> push it on other people.
>>
>> It is the guidance of God I am conveying, not my personal opinion.
>

> Of course it is your personal opinion...

I hold this position because over time I learned from God what it
means.

Homosexuality is a sin. It results in the eternal death of a human
soul in Hellfire forever. It is something God commands us to teach
against because He wants people saved. And I, having come to under-
stand who God is and what that all means ... I also hold that position.

However, this position did not /ORIGINATE/ from me, David. It was
something I first learned from God, thought about, and have received
with gladness and joy because I know God, trust God, and love God.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

It's easy to imagine some strongly religious nation with a gorgeous
temple (or numerous temples) paid for by devoted taxpayers where the
wealthy and powerful rulers of heathen nations are regularly
entertained, and thousands of bureaucrats, scholars, and legal experts
work in the service of enforcing a complex system of religious laws,
some rather sensible and some utterly draconian, and long lists of
prohibitions where behavior is scrutinized, analyzed, and punishments
enforced by Earthly judges in the service of God's will.

and which is otherwise spiritually dead. Judea in 4 BC comes to mind.

[David Brown]

On 17/09/18 16:33, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 10:26 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 17/09/18 16:06, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 9/17/2018 10:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>>> It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
>>>>> being between one man and one woman, which is the type
>>>>> of marriage God decreed.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
>>>>> because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
>>>>> explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
>>>>> literally keeps one out of Heaven.
>>>>
>>>> You can make a personal decision like that if you want - but you can't
>>>> push it on other people.
>>>
>>> It is the guidance of God I am conveying, not my personal opinion.
>>
>> Of course it is your personal opinion...
>
> I hold this position because over time I learned from God what it
> means.
>

In other words, it is your personal opinion. It is formed by your
faith, not independent fact.

> Homosexuality is a sin.  It results in the eternal death of a human
> soul in Hellfire forever.  It is something God commands us to teach
> against because He wants people saved.  And I, having come to under-
> stand who God is and what that all means ... I also hold that position.

Homosexuality is normal. It is normal in many birds and animals -
surely you are not saying they also are condemned by sin? It is normal
in humans - it is normal to have attraction to both genders, usually
with a strong preference for one gender but usually not an absolute
preference. And for homosexuals, attraction to the same gender is
/normal/ for them. Trying to be anything else would be a lie. Do you
think your god made some people that way but then made rules saying they
are never allowed to love, to be loved, to be part of a family?

And please don't say it's not god's fault but man's, or Adam's, or the
devils - stop apologising for your irresponsible divinity. If he made
us this way and made rules against our nature, it is /his/ fault. If he
didn't do it, and has abdicated any fault and responsibility, then he
has also abdicated any claim on our obedience or thanks. He can't have
it both ways.

>
> However, this position did not /ORIGINATE/ from me, David.  It was
> something I first learned from God, thought about, and have received
> with gladness and joy because I know God, trust God, and love God.
>

I am sure you learned it from somewhere, yes. I don't think it was god,
but I appreciate that you do. It is, nonetheless, your opinion and not
an objective fact, and not an opinion shared by all.

[Ian Collins]

On 18/09/18 02:33, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 10:26 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 17/09/18 16:06, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 9/17/2018 10:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>>> It's a good thing to support the definition of marriage
>>>>> being between one man and one woman, which is the type
>>>>> of marriage God decreed.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a good thing to /NOT/ support homosexual marriage,
>>>>> because God has called homosexuality an abomination, and
>>>>> explicitly listed it as a sin in the New Testament which
>>>>> literally keeps one out of Heaven.
>>>>
>>>> You can make a personal decision like that if you want - but you can't
>>>> push it on other people.
>>>
>>> It is the guidance of God I am conveying, not my personal opinion.
>>
>> Of course it is your personal opinion...
>
> I hold this position because over time I learned from God what it
> means.
>
> Homosexuality is a sin. It results in the eternal death of a human
> soul in Hellfire forever. It is something God commands us to teach
> against because He wants people saved. And I, having come to under-
> stand who God is and what that all means ... I also hold that position.

Saved from what? The way they were created? Sexuality isn't a choice
if you believe it is, you are ignoring the evidence. If you refuse to
believe it despite the evidence, you are deluded.

> However, this position did not /ORIGINATE/ from me, David. It was
> something I first learned from God, thought about, and have received
> with gladness and joy because I know God, trust God, and love God.

The standard rhetoric of a bigot citing a higher authority. Evil things
happen when people do this, learn from history don't repeat it.

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

This goes back to what I was trying to explain to Öö Tiib and
bitrex.

You're not born that way. You "feel" like you are born that
way because there are evil spirits in this world influencing
your flesh. Take them out of the equation (which is what Jesus
does) and you no longer "feel" the way they induce you to feel.

>> However, this position did not /ORIGINATE/ from me, David.  It was
>> something I first learned from God, thought about, and have received
>> with gladness and joy because I know God, trust God, and love God.
>
> The standard rhetoric of a bigot citing a higher authority.  Evil things
> happen when people do this, learn from history don't repeat it.

You don't understand, Ian, because you're not looking for the
truth. You won't even hear the truth because you're already
convinced you're right.

Breaks my heart. Someday you'll know.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 4:32 PM, David Brown wrote:
> In other words, it is your personal opinion.  It is formed by your faith, not
> independent fact.

I used to play guitar at a local gay bar. I learned how to
play acoustic guitar because I loved the Indigo Girls' music.
My favorite artists in the 1990s were Indigo Girls, Ani DiFranco,
Melissa Ethridge, Michelle Malone, and the like.

I believed in homosexual relationships. My (then girlfriend,
now wife) and I used to support them, go out and hang out with
people who were gay, etc.

When I became a Christian, my spirit came alive, and I was no
longer dealing with only my flesh-based input. I was able to
hear and understand the teachings of God through my spirit.

As such, I began to realize how the flesh is deceived, and how
God's Holy Spirit teaches us truth, and how the enemy spirit
deceives us by teaching us falseness.

You'll never understand until you seek the truth and God draws
you from within, David. I was absolutely convinced I was right
before I became a Christian. I knew up and down, right to left,
inside and out, top to bottom, that I had it sorted out that it
was fully right to support people's beliefs, so long as they
were not hurting anyone else.

But I was wrong. The spirit nature received the truth from God's
Holy Spirit, and now I know the truth and teach the truth.

If you ever seek the truth, you'll understand what I'm talking
about then too. Until then, you'll conclude I'm a lunatic or
worse.

-----
You say "homosexuality is normal" because you find it in nature?
This world, the whole world, is affected by sin. It is not
natural. It is perverse, and everything here will be destroyed
by fervent heat, as will the souls of human beings who will not
hear the truth.

My heart breaks for you as well.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 4:49 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 4:32 PM, David Brown wrote:
>> In other words, it is your personal opinion.  It is formed by your faith,
>> not independent fact.
>
> I used to play guitar at a local gay bar.  I learned how to
> play acoustic guitar because I loved the Indigo Girls' music.
> My favorite artists in the 1990s were Indigo Girls, Ani DiFranco,
> Melissa Ethridge, Michelle Malone, and the like.

My favorite song from that timeframe was Ani DiFranco's Living
In Clip live version of "In Or Out."

I admired the lyrical composition, her poetry, the musical style.
It's an astounding piece of music for that genre in my view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofWFwxpf-F8

"Some days the line I walk ... turns out to be straight.
Other days the line ... tends to deviate.
I got no criteria ... for sex or race.
I just want to hear your voice.
I just wanna see your face."

Another verse:

"I guess there's something wrong with me,
guess I don't fit in.
No one wants to touch it.
No one knows where to begin.
I just want ... more than one membership,
to ... more than one club,
'cause I owe my life ... to the people that I love"

Still, I hold that song an absolutely amazing song musically,
lyrically, fully encompassing the heart of that very style,
and especially so when you consider it was only a three-piece
band performing it.

But ... it is sin. What she's talking about in that song
(bisexuality) is sin. I can no longer support that kind of
music, that kind of artist. They have turned their back on
God and all of their ways lead unto death of our eternal
soul in Hell. Literally.

-----
I've spent many years denying myself that style by religious
rigor, even though I truly love it as a man, because I can't
find any Christian artists who sing as spirit-filled believers,
in that same style.

I've also learned over time that such a style of music appeals
to our flesh, not the spirit, and there are other kinds of music
that appeal to the spirit, and not our flesh. And I now pursue
those styles, and sing and perform those songs.

I don't even listen to a mainstream "Christian radio" here in
the U.S. A popular "Christian" station is called K-LOVE. So
many people listen to that station and sing the songs, but nearly
all of those songs appeal to your flesh, not your spirit. They
have flesh-focused music singing about Jesus.

There is no power in the flesh. "The flesh profiteth nothing,"
Jesus said. It is the spirit which gives and has true power.

I try and teach the people who listen to that music that fact,
and they shun me the same as the people here, because there
are evil spirits luring them by their flesh into that music,
into that loss of power. They do not want to step up and deny
their flesh and pursue the spirit, so they walk around weak,
impotent, unable to effect real change in their lives or the
people around them.

-----
It makes me realize just how patient the Lord is, how forgiving
He is, how tolerant of our weaknesses, and also how few people
there are from this world who are going to be saved.

Those who follow after Jesus Christ and do the will of the Father
in Heaven are the /ONLY/ ones who will be saved. The rest only
have a form of religion, and they are not saved by Christ's blood.
They will be stupefied on that final day when they are not called
in to God's Kingdom. They will proclaim and profess their faith,
but it will be for nothing.

Jesus even warned about us about it, and told us to "work out our
salvation in trembling and fear":

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=KJV

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth
the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Note: They called him "Lord, Lord," meaning they truly in their
hearts believed they were following Him. They thought
they were on the right path, but the work they were doing
was not the Father's work, but was the enemy's work dis-
guised as the Father's work, and they were deceived because
they wouldn't place their faith in God and trust Him for
their guidance and cues.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast
out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
==> 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus never knew them? How could God not "know" something or
someone? Of course He knew them as part of His creation, but
He never knew them as His redeemed, because they never truly
came to Him. They came to the enemy's look-a-like "Jesus,"
the one who tolerates sin, and follows after the desires of
the flesh.

-----
I leave you with another teaching, David:

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the
end thereof are the ways of death."


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverbs+14%3A12%2C+16%3A25&version=KJV

It was written twice in two separate chapers. Think about it.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Ian Collins]

On 18/09/18 08:43, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 4:36 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 18/09/18 02:33, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>
>>> Homosexuality is a sin.  It results in the eternal death of a human
>>> soul in Hellfire forever.  It is something God commands us to teach
>>> against because He wants people saved.  And I, having come to under-
>>> stand who God is and what that all means ... I also hold that position.
>>
>> Saved from what?  The way they were created?  Sexuality isn't a choice if you
>> believe it is, you are ignoring the evidence.  If you refuse to believe it
>> despite the evidence, you are deluded.
>
> This goes back to what I was trying to explain to Öö Tiib and
> bitrex.
>
> You're not born that way. You "feel" like you are born that
> way because there are evil spirits in this world influencing
> your flesh. Take them out of the equation (which is what Jesus
> does) and you no longer "feel" the way they induce you to feel.

Your willingness to ignore reasoned evidence in favour of superstition
is astounding. We don't really have your kind in this part of the
world, which makes your views doubly hard to fathom.

>>> However, this position did not /ORIGINATE/ from me, David.  It was
>>> something I first learned from God, thought about, and have received
>>> with gladness and joy because I know God, trust God, and love God.
>>
>> The standard rhetoric of a bigot citing a higher authority.  Evil things
>> happen when people do this, learn from history don't repeat it.
>
> You don't understand, Ian, because you're not looking for the
> truth. You won't even hear the truth because you're already
> convinced you're right.

The truth, evidence based and irrefutable truth, is all around us. It
is called science and you should check it out sometime.

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 5:50 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
> The truth, evidence based and irrefutable truth, is all around us.  It is
> called science and you should check it out sometime.

I recognize that what you say is "evidence based irrefutable truth"
being "all around us" exists ... but what I'm trying to teach you
is there's a deception at work within your flesh because of our
spiritual death, and that if you come to Jesus and ask forgiveness
for your sin, then He will take your sin away, restore you to spirit
life, allow you to then know and be guided by His Holy Spirit, which
will teach you the difference between evil spirit influence, and
truth.

It's new life, Ian. It's not more of the same. The old passes away
and the new life comes.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/17/2018 1:36 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 18/09/18 02:33, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 9/17/2018 10:26 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 17/09/18 16:06, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> On 9/17/2018 10:02 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> On 17/09/18 14:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/17/2018 5:26 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:

[...]

> Saved from what?  The way they were created?  Sexuality isn't a choice
> if you believe it is, you are ignoring the evidence.  If you refuse to
> believe it despite the evidence, you are deluded.

This is probably going to sound radically sexist, however I have always
wondered why any female can find the male body "attractive"...

Healthy Females seem to be built like exotically beautiful, very
expensive cars.

Healthy Males seem to resemble heavily used dirty trucks, to me at least.

;^)

[...]

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/17/2018 5:53 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 5:50 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> The truth, evidence based and irrefutable truth, is all around us.  It is
>> called science and you should check it out sometime.
>
> I recognize that what you say is "evidence based irrefutable truth"
> being "all around us" exists ... but what I'm trying to teach you
> is there's a deception at work within your flesh because of our

It is that deception which makes you think something is truth, when
it is not. It's that deception which makes you believe and feel
and "know surely" that something is something, when in fact it is
not.

> spiritual death, and that if you come to Jesus and ask forgiveness
> for your sin, then He will take your sin away, restore you to spirit
> life, allow you to then know and be guided by His Holy Spirit, which
> will teach you the difference between evil spirit influence, and
> truth.
>
> It's new life, Ian.  It's not more of the same.  The old passes away
> and the new life comes.

It's the division God gives between those who are perishing and those
who are being saved. All who are being saved will come out from the
world and reject the worldly ways and be saved. The rest will not.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

It kind of sounds like some sort of pre-programmed "procreation"
algorithm in a sense.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/17/2018 1:49 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/17/2018 4:32 PM, David Brown wrote:
>> In other words, it is your personal opinion.  It is formed by your
>> faith, not independent fact.
>
> I used to play guitar at a local gay bar.  I learned how to
> play acoustic guitar because I loved the Indigo Girls' music.
> My favorite artists in the 1990s were Indigo Girls, Ani DiFranco,
> Melissa Ethridge, Michelle Malone, and the like.

[...]
A noiseless patient Spider? ;^)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I think Eternal September adds that to the posts. Either that or
a default setting in Thunderbird.

-----
I used go to that gay bar every week for years. I still have some
lesbian friends from that timeframe. One of them asked me to re-
place the A/C compressor and alternator on her car a few weeks back.

There's a part of me that misses it. I remember how amazing I felt
up on stage, playing the guitar. I remember the fun we had with all
of our worldliness, jokes about this, that, and the other thing. We
used to play Jenga at one of the tables there because we were regulars
and had a special relationship with the bar owner.

There's nothing unappealing about that experience to my flesh. But,
it only appeals to my flesh.

Since I've been born again, since Jesus took my sin away, and since
I've been able to hear and know and follow God's Holy Spirit, I have
a new voice which is louder than that one of my flesh. That new
voice doesn't want me weak in the world, doesn't want me unable to
server His Kingdom here on Earth ("thy Kingdom come, thy will be
done, on Earth as it is in Heaven").

This new life I'm teaching you all about ... do not take my word for
it. Please, please, please ... go to a local Bible-believing church
and ask to speak to born again Christians and ask them for their own
testimony. Ask God to guide you before you go, and to lead you to
the right people to hear the proper testimony.

If you are truly seeking the truth, He will do this for you.

--
Rick C. Hodgin