The Rapture (Reprise ad infinitum)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.

--

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.

Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
(not like the other raptures):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:42:55 +0100
"Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick Hodgin wrote:
>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
>
>Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
>(not like the other raptures):
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU

Mate, give it rest, no one gives a shit about your medieval beliefs and it
should have been clear by now to anyone with any social intelligence that
you've made yourself a figure of fun on here. Take it to a more appropriate
group.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 5:20:33 AM UTC-4, bol...@cylonhq.com wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:42:55 +0100
> "Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick Hodgin wrote:
> >> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
> >
> >Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
> >(not like the other raptures):
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU
>

> Mate, give it rest, no one gives a .. about your medieval beliefs and it

> should have been clear by now to anyone with any social intelligence that
> you've made yourself a figure of fun on here. Take it to a more appropriate
> group.

I didn't write the posts on this thread. Look at the headers.
They are from a mocker making fun of me (Leigh Johnston, aka Mr.
Flibble). He, like you, thinks my teaching posts about Jesus
Christ are a waste of time and something to be mocked. He posts
these mocking posts pretending to be me.

I would simply ask this: after the rapture, remember these posts.
You can still be saved in what's coming. Don't take the mark
required to buy or sell, and ask Jesus to forgive your sin and
save you. He will, but what you'll go through during that time
will be much, much harder. You can read about the additional
difficulties in the New Testament, specifically in the book of
Revelation, as that's the only book with things left to be fulfilled
during that post-rapture age.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 04:57:02 -0700 (PDT)

"Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 5:20:33 AM UTC-4, bol...@cylonhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:42:55 +0100
>> "Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick Hodgin wrote:
>> >> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
>
>> >
>> >Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
>> >(not like the other raptures):
>> >
>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU
>>
>> Mate, give it rest, no one gives a .. about your medieval beliefs and it
>> should have been clear by now to anyone with any social intelligence that
>> you've made yourself a figure of fun on here. Take it to a more appropriate
>> group.
>
>I didn't write the posts on this thread. Look at the headers.
>They are from a mocker making fun of me (Leigh Johnston, aka Mr.
>Flibble). He, like you, thinks my teaching posts about Jesus
>Christ are a waste of time and something to be mocked. He posts
>these mocking posts pretending to be me.

It doesn't really matter, the point still stands.

>I would simply ask this: after the rapture, remember these posts.

People have been predicting the imminent end of the world since time
immemorial. Your prediction will turn out to be just as deluded as all the
others. Reality doesn't care what it says in your religious storybook.

[Mr Flibble]

On 30/08/2018 12:57, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 5:20:33 AM UTC-4, bol...@cylonhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:42:55 +0100
>> "Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick Hodgin wrote:
>>>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
>>>
>>> Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
>>> (not like the other raptures):
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU
>>
>> Mate, give it rest, no one gives a .. about your medieval beliefs and it
>> should have been clear by now to anyone with any social intelligence that
>> you've made yourself a figure of fun on here. Take it to a more appropriate
>> group.
>
> I didn't write the posts on this thread. Look at the headers.
> They are from a mocker making fun of me (Leigh Johnston, aka Mr.
> Flibble). He, like you, thinks my teaching posts about Jesus
> Christ are a waste of time and something to be mocked. He posts
> these mocking posts pretending to be me.

What you call mocking I call satire. Satire is used to ridicule and shine
a light on that which is bad; what is bad in this case is your insistence
on posting off-topic religious posts to a technical newsgroup. If you
don't like the satire then stop with the posts but don't whine about it:
you reap what you sow.

/Flibble

--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a
world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 4:17:49 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
> ...you reap what you sow.

So will you, Leigh. I sow seeds of Jesus Christ in the lives
of people around me. Jesus taught we would be mocked, ridiculed,
hated, even killed. It won't stop His love for you and your
soul in action within us.

I wear your attacks as badges of honor. Feel free to "satire"
me as you feel is appropriate ... you will only be heaping on
eternal blessing after eternal blessing:


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A11-12&version=KJV

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and
persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil
against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your
reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets
which were before you.

Heavenly rewards never abate. They are like the wood in the
burning bush, in use fully, but not consumed.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 8/23/2018 9:31 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
>

What happens in the rapture? Will you just drop dead, or disappear?

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 8/30/2018 4:57 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 5:20:33 AM UTC-4, bol...@cylonhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:42:55 +0100
>> "Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick Hodgin wrote:
>>>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
>>>
>>> Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
>>> (not like the other raptures):
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU
>>
>> Mate, give it rest, no one gives a .. about your medieval beliefs and it
>> should have been clear by now to anyone with any social intelligence that
>> you've made yourself a figure of fun on here. Take it to a more appropriate
>> group.
>
> I didn't write the posts on this thread. Look at the headers.

Rick C. Hodgin Enterprises?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 6:38:41 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> What happens in the rapture? Will you just drop dead, or disappear?

The Bible describes it:

Jesus describes how it will be a worldwide event:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24%3A34-42&version=KJV

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall
not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming
of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were
eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all
away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
==> 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken,
and the other left.
==> 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall
be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord
doth come.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17%3A34-36&version=KJV

==> 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in
one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall
be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall
be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken,
and the other left.

Luke 17:34 suggests it will be in the evening in Jerusalem. But,
no one knows for sure.

Paul goes further, describes how quickly it will occur. People
will just wink out of existe in immediacy, probably with no visible
flash or audio sound.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15%3A51-52%2C1+Thessalonians+4%3A13-18&version=KJV

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall
be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not,
even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even
so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with
him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that
we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the
Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in
the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Study these things. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the
word of God (the Bible).

Some verse by verse, concept by concept, explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5te0v0zCOjc

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Giganews. I post from Google Groups or Eternal September.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I see Giganews here:
___________________
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___________________

[Rick C. Hodgin]

https://groups.google.com/forum/?nomobile=true#!original/comp.lang.c++/eF0aM6K1Ki0/dCwkEobAEAAJ

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Subject: The Rapture (Reprise ad infinitum)
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The ===> highlighted lines show his signature. Compare these
to my headers.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

News posts pass through various servers, and the headers you see will
include the originating server, the server you use, and any servers
along the way. Giganews is one of the biggies in the business - a great
deal of Usenet posts pass through one of their systems along the way.

Usually it is quite obvious when a post is one of the real Rick's
annoying sermons, or one of the fake Rick's equally annoying so-called
"satires". And if Poe's law applies, then it really doesn't matter who
made the post.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Yeah. I got it.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Sometimes it is.

[bitrex]

Those verses don't say anything about "people will just wink out of
existence in immediacy, probably with no visible flash or audio sound."

I think the Bible says what it means. No more, and no less. All else is
supposition - if I try to extrapolate the exact meaning of the phrase
involving "changed" then I'm just a man trying to clairvoyantly read the
specifics of the mind of God through words in a book. Which makes no sense.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 8:48:23 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> Those verses don't say anything about "people will just wink out of
> existence in immediacy, probably with no visible flash or audio sound."

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed,

==> 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last

trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall
be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

> I think the Bible says what it means. No more, and no less. All else is
> supposition - if I try to extrapolate the exact meaning of the phrase
> involving "changed" then I'm just a man trying to clairvoyantly read the
> specifics of the mind of God through words in a book. Which makes no sense.

How we are changed is explained in other verses:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15%3A35-58&version=KJV

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this
mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then
shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.

The answers in detail are there. You can ask for them rather
than concluding I am wrong. I have very valid Biblical reasons
for writing the things I do.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+3%3A20-21&version=KJV

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also
we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be
==> fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to
the working whereby he is able even to subdue all
things unto himself.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

Doesn't say a thing about going nowhere.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

If you study the Bible, you'll learn the truth:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A16-18&version=KJV

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

==> 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
==> together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in

the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We learn from prior examples in the Bible, such as when Jesus
appeared in the upper room after His resurrection, in a locked
room He appeared with no noise, no fanfare. On the mountain,
Jesus was transformed, giving us a preview of His 2nd coming
glory, no fanfare. When the Holy Spirit whisked Phillip away,
no fanfare.

When the Day of Pentecost was fully come, a great rushing noise
with the arrival of the Holy Spirit. When Elijah was taken up,
a great fanfare. When Enoch was taken, no fanfare (Enoch being
a precursor example of the rapture).

These all lend information, a pattern, which conveys information
regarding the way things are written in the Bible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5te0v0zCOjc

Information comes from study.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

It sounds like an epic cataclysmic event where the saved and the damned
are truthfully and fully sorted out in front of all to see, residing
within their brand new spiritual bodies, that never die. Unless God
sentences it to death, like Satan.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

People are being sorted out now. When the rapture comes, it's
the consummation of that sifting.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bitrex]

AFAIK it's been Church doctrine for a very long time that Heaven and
Hell are not in the sky, in the clouds, underground, in outer space, on
Neptune, in the Andromeda Galaxy, or in any Earthly/physical realm, so I
don't see how discussion of clouds/air implies a rapture to Heaven of
any kind.

[bitrex]

On 09/01/2018 01:29 AM, bitrex wrote:

>> We learn from prior examples in the Bible, such as when Jesus
>> appeared in the upper room after His resurrection, in a locked
>> room He appeared with no noise, no fanfare.  On the mountain,
>> Jesus was transformed, giving us a preview of His 2nd coming
>> glory, no fanfare.  When the Holy Spirit whisked Phillip away,
>> no fanfare.
>>
>> When the Day of Pentecost was fully come, a great rushing noise
>> with the arrival of the Holy Spirit.  When Elijah was taken up,
>> a great fanfare.  When Enoch was taken, no fanfare (Enoch being
>> a precursor example of the rapture).
>>
>> These all lend information, a pattern, which conveys information
>> regarding the way things are written in the Bible.
>>
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5te0v0zCOjc
>>
>> Information comes from study.
>>

Sounds like making salvation contingent on "secret knowledge" in a
Gnostic-like fashion. I don't believe in such "secret knowledge" it
seems to me the Bible is quite plain and clear about what is required.
No more and no less.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I do not believe in the rapture.

[bitrex]

Revelation 13:7 - "And it was given unto him to make war with the
saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds,
and tongues, and nations."

So even the saints have to endure the cataclysm but Rick Hodgin gets a
VIP pass to Heaven? Why?

13:16 - "And he causeth _all_, both small and great, rich and poor, free
and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads."

Is there confusion over what the word "all" means? Does it say "All,
except for Rick Hodgin?"

[Chris M. Thomasson]

However, I do think of a judgement day, but not people being caught up
in the sky as if they are flying, or simply disappearing altogether.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 8/31/2018 10:58 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 08/31/2018 11:21 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 11:08:30 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson
>> wrote:
>>> On 8/30/2018 3:38 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> On 8/23/2018 9:31 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because
>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What happens in the rapture? Will you just drop dead, or disappear?
>>>
>>> It sounds like an epic cataclysmic event where the saved and the damned
>>> are truthfully and fully sorted out in front of all to see, residing
>>> within their brand new spiritual bodies, that never die. Unless God
>>> sentences it to death, like Satan.
>>
>> People are being sorted out now.  When the rapture comes, it's
>> the consummation of that sifting.
>>
>
> Revelation 13:7 - "And it was given unto him to make war with the
> saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds,
> and tongues, and nations."
>
> So even the saints have to endure the cataclysm but Rick Hodgin gets a
> VIP pass to Heaven? Why?

Right. I think the rapture is not true because God's elect, or the
"chosen" ones, need to be here on earth to face the demon. Something like:

https://youtu.be/J3oI0DMtHi4

The rapture is a lie of Satan. It simply has to be.

[bitrex]

On 09/01/2018 02:02 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 8/31/2018 10:58 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 08/31/2018 11:21 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 11:08:30 PM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 8/30/2018 3:38 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/23/2018 9:31 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because
>>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens in the rapture? Will you just drop dead, or disappear?
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like an epic cataclysmic event where the saved and the damned
>>>> are truthfully and fully sorted out in front of all to see, residing
>>>> within their brand new spiritual bodies, that never die. Unless God
>>>> sentences it to death, like Satan.
>>>
>>> People are being sorted out now.  When the rapture comes, it's
>>> the consummation of that sifting.
>>>
>>
>> Revelation 13:7 - "And it was given unto him to make war with the
>> saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all
>> kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
>>
>> So even the saints have to endure the cataclysm but Rick Hodgin gets a
>> VIP pass to Heaven? Why?
>
> Right. I think the rapture is not true because God's elect, or the
> "chosen" ones, need to be here on earth to face the demon. Something like:
>
> https://youtu.be/J3oI0DMtHi4

Revelations talks a lot about the patience and endurance of the
faithful, if it should be talking about what the faithful must endure
prior to a pre-tribulation Rapture it's talking about...what. Enduring
religious debates on the Internet? Enduring high gas prices or someone
you don't like being elected President or favorite Netflix show being
canceled? Is that what it's talking about enduring?

[Chris M. Thomasson]

lol. :^)

[bitrex]

On 08/30/2018 07:57 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 5:20:33 AM UTC-4, bol...@cylonhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 01:42:55 +0100
>> "Rick Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> On 23/08/2018 17:31, Rick Hodgin wrote:
>>>> The rapture will happen soon; the last ones didn't happen because reasons.
>>>

>>> Please watch this important video about the Rapture which is coming soon
>>> (not like the other raptures):
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UCpOzTbNU
>>
>> Mate, give it rest, no one gives a .. about your medieval beliefs and it
>> should have been clear by now to anyone with any social intelligence that
>> you've made yourself a figure of fun on here. Take it to a more appropriate
>> group.
>
> I didn't write the posts on this thread. Look at the headers.

> They are from a mocker making fun of me (Leigh Johnston, aka Mr.
> Flibble). He, like you, thinks my teaching posts about Jesus
> Christ are a waste of time and something to be mocked. He posts
> these mocking posts pretending to be me.
>

> I would simply ask this: after the rapture, remember these posts.
> You can still be saved in what's coming. Don't take the mark
> required to buy or sell, and ask Jesus to forgive your sin and
> save you. He will, but what you'll go through during that time
> will be much, much harder. You can read about the additional
> difficulties in the New Testament, specifically in the book of
> Revelation, as that's the only book with things left to be fulfilled
> during that post-rapture age.
>

Don't you worry, I don't plan on taking any fuckin' mark. If anyone
comes around asking about it I'm gonna just play dumb. Like with
Jehovah's Witnesses I'll just pretend I only speak German until they
give up.

[Ian Collins]

On 01/09/18 18:02, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>
> The rapture is a lie of Satan. It simply has to be.

It also has bugger all to do with C++.

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ). Those events
described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left behind.

The knowledge of God /IS/ hidden from those who are perishing. Only those
who are being saved can receive the gospel message. The rest will conclude
the message is utter foolishness, until the day they leave this Earth.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Revelation is the time of God's wrath. Very few people worldwide
will survive. The rest will perish with the many "plagues" God
pours out on the ungodly.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+16-18&version=NIV

The saints are not appointed to wrath:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A9-10&version=NIV

Every answer to every thought on the matter you have is answered
in scripture. Bur no one can receive it unless they are looking
for the truth. The truth defeats every lie. God is truth, and
His Word is truth.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 30.08.18 um 22:17 schrieb Mr Flibble:
> What you call mocking I call satire.  Satire is used to ridicule and
> shine a light on that which is bad; what is bad in this case is your
> insistence on posting off-topic religious posts to a technical
> newsgroup.  If you don't like the satire then stop with the posts but
> don't whine about it: you reap what you sow.

SInce long I keep seeing your satirical posts, but haven't seen a
religious one from Rick in a while. So now YOU are the one flooding the
group with BS, please stop it.

Christian

[bitrex]

On 09/01/2018 08:45 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

>> Right. I think the rapture is not true because God's elect, or the
>> "chosen" ones, need to be here on earth to face the demon. Something like:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/J3oI0DMtHi4
>>
>> The rapture is a lie of Satan. It simply has to be.
>>
>>>
>>> 13:16 - "And he causeth _all_, both small and great, rich and poor, free
>>> and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads."
>>>
>>> Is there confusion over what the word "all" means? Does it say "All,
>>> except for Rick Hodgin?"
>
> Revelation is the time of God's wrath. Very few people worldwide
> will survive. The rest will perish with the many "plagues" God
> pours out on the ungodly.
>
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+16-18&version=NIV
>
> The saints are not appointed to wrath:
>
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A9-10&version=NIV
>
> Every answer to every thought on the matter you have is answered
> in scripture. Bur no one can receive it unless they are looking
> for the truth. The truth defeats every lie. God is truth, and
> His Word is truth.
>

I think Chris raises a perfectly valid point which is if all the true
faithful are raptured then who is left behind to confront the Beast? I
can't say I've ever met a Rapture-theologist who didn't believe they
were the saved along with all the other Rapture-saved and everyone else
is ungodly left behind to perish which would then make one wonder what
the point of any of all the rest of the stuff written in Revelations is.
It could be entirely summarized in one sentence: "Terrible things will
happen to the ungodly but don't worry about it you're the faithful and
won't be around for it." what was the point of the exercise.

[bitrex]

On 09/01/2018 08:45 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> Revelation is the time of God's wrath. Very few people worldwide
> will survive. The rest will perish with the many "plagues" God
> pours out on the ungodly.
>
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+16-18&version=NIV
>
> The saints are not appointed to wrath:
>
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A9-10&version=NIV
>
> Every answer to every thought on the matter you have is answered
> in scripture. Bur no one can receive it unless they are looking
> for the truth. The truth defeats every lie. God is truth, and
> His Word is truth.

Okay, well if God should tell me some other truth I'll be sure to run it
by you first so you can correct Him.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It's a good question. It's answered in the videos I've shared
in this thread, but I'll summarize here:

God has His chosen nation: Israel. They were the focus of the
Old Testament, and they will be His focus during the tribulation,
but because the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah when He came
to the Earth, the age of gentiles (non-Jews) was established.
Jesus explains this in a parable about those being bidden to a
man's feast. The servants of the man asked all the prominent
members of the community to attend, but they all had excuses why
they couldn't make it. So, the man instructed the servants to
go out into the streets and compel even lame people to come:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+14%3A15-24&version=NIV

This was/is the age of the blind, lame, pitiful, to be bidden to
the Lord's banquet. They are the gentiles, wretched in sin, whom
Jesus makes pure by washing away their sin by His blood.

-----
Because the Jews rejected Jesus, He gave them what they wanted.
Israel's eyes have been blinded by God to Jesus being the Messiah,
but after the rapture that blindness will be taken away. Israel
was bot a nation again until 1948. They didn't have their capital
back until 1968. God is again preparing Israel to be His people.

The Jews will then see Jesus as their Messiah, and they will be
the tribulation saints, along with those gentiles who come to
believe during that time.

Good question.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Run it by scripture. It's why He gave us the Bible, so we would
have a permanent, written record so as to refer back to so we can
be sure any "guidance from God" is really from God and not from
the enemy.

God will not contradict His written word.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Mr Flibble]

My posts were in direct response to Hodgin's posts dated 22/08/18 and
30/08/18 (see "[Jesus Loves You] Biblical timeline"). You can now take
that fucking carrot out of your fucking arse.

/Flibble

--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a
world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."

[bitrex]

To be fair Raytheon, General Dynamics, and Lockheed-Martin products
provided at substantial discount did a lot of the work there.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 12:21:03 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> To be fair Raytheon, General Dynamics, and Lockheed-Martin products
> provided at substantial discount did a lot of the work there.

Oil revenues, advanced technology research, and other factors
have also played a part.

We are three-fold beings: soul, body, spirit. God uses the natural
to handle those things we are able to do physically. He handles
the supernatural things we cannot do physically. You can see
this in the administration of the fishes and loaves, and in the
resurrection of Lazarus.

For all things we are able to do, God calls us to do. Where we
can't, He does. With the fishes and loaves, we brought the fish
and loaves, and we distributed the food to the thousands. God
gave the miracle of multiplying the source.

With Lazarus, we rolled the stone away and were called to remove
his grave clothes and tend to him after he was resurrected. Jesus
handled the raising from the dead.

Many things in scripture are like this. Peter and his release
from prison, however, shows supernatural intervention to set free
that which was bound.

Israel will be supernaturally protected when attacked. And in
the Six Days War, Egyptian soldiers reported seeing large angelic
armies in defense of Israel. They laid down arms because of it.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 01/09/18 09:33, bitrex wrote:

>
> Don't you worry, I don't plan on taking any fuckin' mark. If anyone
> comes around asking about it I'm gonna just play dumb. Like with
> Jehovah's Witnesses I'll just pretend I only speak German until they
> give up.

The trick with Jehovah's Witnesses is to invite them in. Watch how it
confuses them - it is such an unlikely scenario that it is not part of
their training, and they don't know how to handle it.

[Melzzzzz]

When two Jehovas aproached my wife and me: they say: "We offer eternal
life".
My wife: "I don't want to live forever" ;)
That confused them ;)

>


--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 01.09.18 um 17:39 schrieb Mr Flibble:

> On 01/09/2018 15:00, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>> SInce long I keep seeing your satirical posts, but haven't seen a
>> religious one from Rick in a while. So now YOU are the one flooding
>> the group with BS, please stop it.
>
> My posts were in direct response to Hodgin's posts dated 22/08/18 and
> 30/08/18 (see "[Jesus Loves You] Biblical timeline").

which were thankfully ignored by anybody else. Your post started a long
thread again. Your first ones were funny, but now the joke's getting old.

Christian

[Mr Flibble]

Joke's getting old? Comedians often use old material. Either way you get
what you fucking pay for mate.

[bitrex]

My Mom did that one time they just show up the next time with like six
guys in black suits in two Mercedes luxury sedans ready to whisk you
away to the convert center or w/e.

[bitrex]

On 09/01/2018 08:33 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ). Those events
> described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left behind.

If the rapture is only for the "saints" then Christ will be able to take
it easy, there will be little work to do in America. Why teleport anyone
when surely all of them could fit on some fashion of small aircraft.

I doubt anyone will even notice, they'll be too busy praying for divine
intervention and riches from some charlatan in a 50,000 seat football
stadium.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/1/2018 10:36 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 08:33 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ).  Those events
>> described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left
>> behind.
>
> If the rapture is only for the "saints" then Christ will be able to take
> it easy, there will be little work to do in America. Why teleport anyone
> when surely all of them could fit on some fashion of small aircraft.
>
> I doubt anyone will even notice, they'll be too busy praying for divine
> intervention and riches from some charlatan in a 50,000 seat football
> stadium.

;^)

My only problem with the rapture is that I always thought that God's
elect stand before and truthfully testify against satan in the flesh
using the pure word of God talking through them. I also think there is a
single unforgivable sin that an elect can possibly make. If they somehow
try to reject the words of God and inject their own words in their place
can be bad mojo.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/1/2018 10:36 PM, bitrex wrote:

> On 09/01/2018 08:33 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ).  Those events
>> described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left
>> behind.
>
> If the rapture is only for the "saints" then Christ will be able to take
> it easy, there will be little work to do in America. Why teleport anyone
> when surely all of them could fit on some fashion of small aircraft.
>
> I doubt anyone will even notice, they'll be too busy praying for divine
> intervention and riches from some charlatan in a 50,000 seat football
> stadium.

Imvho, that person cannot be satan because the beast is actually a
radically beautiful and hyper intelligent being, far beyond any human
capability. It preaches total peace, and demands no war. satan really
gets a kick out of playing the role of Christ. It almost kind of sounds
like a damn evil alien. satan is a really great biblical lawyer, but
twists certain things from time to time.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:36:30 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 08:33 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ). Those events
> > described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left behind.
>
> If the rapture is only for the "saints" then Christ will be able to take
> it easy, there will be little work to do in America. Why teleport anyone
> when surely all of them could fit on some fashion of small aircraft.
>
> I doubt anyone will even notice, they'll be too busy praying for divine
> intervention and riches from some charlatan in a 50,000 seat football
> stadium.

God doesn't call people to pursue worldliness, to seek avarice.
He calls them to holiness, purity, honesty, sincerity, and service
to His Kingdom.

Those taken in the rapture will include the saints who have died
previously in their faith, all the way back to Jesus' time on the
Earth. They will rise first, then those of us left alive will be
snatched away.

The rapture brings those who will be married to Jesus in eternity.
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Jesus) takes place during the seven
year tribulation. And those saints are the ones who return to the
Earth after the seven year period to subdue the Earth, and the re-
maining people thereof.

> > The knowledge of God /IS/ hidden from those who are perishing. Only those
> > who are being saved can receive the gospel message. The rest will conclude
> > the message is utter foolishness, until the day they leave this Earth.

This is all explained in the videos I posted. And in a studying
of the Bible.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Satan was judged by Christ at the cross. He is already a defeated
foe. He is cast into the lake of fire at the end of 7,000 years.
No witnesses from us, only direct condemnation by Jesus:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+12%3A27-33&version=KJV

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father,
save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto
this hour.
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from
heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will
glorify it again.
29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said
that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of
me, but for your sakes.
==> 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince
of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all
men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

And Satan's doom. He's locked up after the tribulation, whereby
the Earth is restored to its pre-sin paradise state. After being
bound a thousand years, he is loosed for a short season, angry and
furious because he knows his time is up. He goes out to deceive
the people born during the thousand years, and deceives many. great
and massive army surrounds Jerusalem, as the fire of God comes down
from Heaven and consumes every one in the army that has risen up
against Jesus and His people:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=KJV

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the
key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which
is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up,
and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the
nations no more, till the thousand years should be
fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little
season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment
was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that
were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word
of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither
his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished. This is the first
resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first
resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
shall reign with him a thousand years.
==> 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be
loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the
four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather
them together to battle: the number of whom is as the
sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and
compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved
city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and
devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake
of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false
prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for
ever and ever.

After this are people judged:

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and
there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened,
which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out
of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and
death and hell delivered up the dead which were in
them: and they were judged every man according to their
works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.
==> 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.

I would save each of you from that judgment by pointing you to Jesus
so you can ask Him to forgive your sin and be saved.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:57:45 AM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/1/2018 10:36 PM, bitrex wrote:
> > On 09/01/2018 08:33 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >> The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ).  Those events
> >> described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left
> >> behind.
> >
> > If the rapture is only for the "saints" then Christ will be able to take
> > it easy, there will be little work to do in America. Why teleport anyone
> > when surely all of them could fit on some fashion of small aircraft.
> >
> > I doubt anyone will even notice, they'll be too busy praying for divine
> > intervention and riches from some charlatan in a 50,000 seat football
> > stadium.
>
> Imvho, that person cannot be satan because the beast is actually a
> radically beautiful and hyper intelligent being, far beyond any human
> capability. It preaches total peace, and demands no war.

Satan is only evil, the father of lies, the cause of all war.

> satan really
> gets a kick out of playing the role of Christ. It almost kind of sounds
> like a damn evil alien. satan is a really great biblical lawyer, but
> twists certain things from time to time.

He twists everything to deceive us into believing lies that sound
close enough to the truth that we'll accept them as though they
are the truth. They are not.

It is only Jesus Christ who is truth. He and He alone, which is
why we must study His written word, for it alone is of Him, and leads
us to Him to ask forgiveness for our sin to be saved.

> >> The knowledge of God /IS/ hidden from those who are perishing.  Only
> >> those
> >> who are being saved can receive the gospel message.  The rest will
> >> conclude
> >> the message is utter foolishness, until the day they leave this Earth.
> >

Satan has no redeeming qualities, but is wholly evil top to bottom.
All who put their faith in him have already lost their soul. But
all who turn toward Christ and ask forgiveness achieve total victory
over him.

Satan has already lost. His time is almost up.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

If God is able microwave a burrito so that it is too hot even for God to
eat then surely God isn't omnipotent as the burrito is too hot even for
God to eat.

God is a category error.

--

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/2/2018 3:15 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:57:45 AM UTC-4, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/1/2018 10:36 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 09/01/2018 08:33 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> The rapture is for the saints (believers in Jesus Christ).  Those events
>>>> described in Revelation regarding the tribulation are for those left
>>>> behind.
>>>
>>> If the rapture is only for the "saints" then Christ will be able to take
>>> it easy, there will be little work to do in America. Why teleport anyone
>>> when surely all of them could fit on some fashion of small aircraft.
>>>
>>> I doubt anyone will even notice, they'll be too busy praying for divine
>>> intervention and riches from some charlatan in a 50,000 seat football
>>> stadium.
>>
>> Imvho, that person cannot be satan because the beast is actually a
>> radically beautiful and hyper intelligent being, far beyond any human
>> capability. It preaches total peace, and demands no war.
>
> Satan is only evil, the father of lies, the cause of all war.

When the beast returns, it comes in total peace. Satan will trick a heck
of a lot of people into thinking that it is indeed the real Jesus.

[Ian Collins]

On 03/09/18 08:39, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>
> When the beast returns, it comes in total peace. Satan will trick a heck
> of a lot of people into thinking that it is indeed the real Jesus.

But no one will be tricked into thinking this has anything to do with C++...

--
Ian.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Amen! Sorry for indulging here, well, at least it is all bottled up in a
single thread. ;^o...

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/02/2018 04:39 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/2/2018 3:15 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> Satan is only evil, the father of lies, the cause of all war.
>
> When the beast returns, it comes in total peace. Satan will trick a heck
> of a lot of people into thinking that it is indeed the real Jesus.

God is allowing people who have rejected Him (rejected truth)
to have what they desire. He's turning each sinner over to
their sin to degrade themselves by their own choices. This
will serve against them on Judgment Day.

What God offers everyone who will seek the truth is escape
from that judgment. It's why Jesus came to the Earth. It's
why He offers salvation to everyone without reservation (even
Adolf Hitler or some such person could be saved if they truly
repented and asked forgiveness).

It's why He has us still on the Earth teaching people these
things.

The only people who will worship the beast and take the mark
are those who are damned by their own refusal to hear the
truth, by their own refusal to accept it.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/2/2018 3:39 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/02/2018 04:39 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/2/2018 3:15 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> Satan is only evil, the father of lies, the cause of all war.
>>
>> When the beast returns, it comes in total peace. Satan will trick a
>> heck of a lot of people into thinking that it is indeed the real Jesus.
>
> God is allowing people who have rejected Him (rejected truth)
> to have what they desire.  He's turning each sinner over to
> their sin to degrade themselves by their own choices.  This
> will serve against them on Judgment Day.
>
> What God offers everyone who will seek the truth is escape
> from that judgment.

Afaict, all beings go through judgment. Some might have something like:

You ripped off a candy bar from a store when you were 7 years old.

Others might be:

you murdered millions of people!

There is a difference.

> It's why Jesus came to the Earth.  It's
> why He offers salvation to everyone without reservation (even
> Adolf Hitler or some such person could be saved if they truly
> repented and asked forgiveness).

Adolf just might be up for a "parole" hearing after spending a (trillion
raised up to the billionth power) of years in jail, added to a lot more.
Since his soul never dies in this scenario, well, can this happen?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/02/2018 06:54 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/2/2018 3:39 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> What God offers everyone who will seek the truth is escape
>> from that judgment.
>
> Afaict, all beings go through judgment. Some might have something like:
> You ripped off a candy bar from a store when you were 7 years old.
>
> Others might be:
> you murdered millions of people!
>
> There is a difference.

One sin condemns a soul to Hell forever:


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+18%3A20&version=KJV

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not
bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father
bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the
righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the
wicked shall be upon him.

Anyone guilty of sinning in one area of the law, is guilty of
all of the law:


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A10-12&version=KJV

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend
in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do
not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou
kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by
the law of liberty.

The standard to get into Heaven is perfection. No one is or
can be perfect in and of themselves. It's why we all need
Jesus Christ to wash us clean of sin by His blood.

What does that mean, to "wash us clean of sin by His blood?"

God demands justice for sin. Either we will pay our own
justice for sin, or we can have a substitute. The only
substitute God has given us is His own Son, Jesus. Jesus
came here, lived a sin free life, was condemned by man,
yet was innocent before God. As such, He was condemned
to die by man's law, and was innocent before God, and
therefore chose voluntarily to take on the weight of sin
so that He would die with that sin rather than us. Those
who put their faith in Jesus and ask Him to forgive their
sin literally have their sin taken off of their books, off
of their account, and transferred to Jesus. This makes us
sin-free before God, which causes us to no longer be under
condemnation, which makes our spirit come alive, which then
gives us the born again spirit nature which changes us here
on this Earth.

Only Jesus was righteous enough to come here, and to return
to Heaven. It's why we need Him to forgive us, for all who
do are made righteous by His blood.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Ian Collins]

On 03/09/18 10:54, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>
> Afaict, all beings go through judgment. Some might have something like:
>
> You ripped off a candy bar from a store when you were 7 years old.
>
> Others might be:
>
> you murdered millions of people!
>
> There is a difference.

Where does spamming Usenet sit in that spectrum?

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You can see this dramatized at the end of this video:

Begins at 23:33:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es7w8G6Q5oc&t=23m33s

> This makes us
> sin-free before God, which causes us to no longer be under
> condemnation, which makes our spirit come alive, which then
> gives us the born again spirit nature which changes us here
> on this Earth.
>
> Only Jesus was righteous enough to come here, and to return
> to Heaven.  It's why we need Him to forgive us, for all who
> do are made righteous by His blood.

People do not realize what they're facing (because they're
dead in sin). It's why only those who are being saved can
hear the gospel message, and only those who can hear it and
respond to it will be saved.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Spamming would be an offense, though probably not a sin in the
Biblical sense. However, teaching people about Jesus Christ is
not spamming, nor is asking legitimate questions about those
things related to Him, salvation, His Kingdom, prophecy, etc.

Ian, can you hear anything in your heart? Any calling from
God calling you to repent of your sin? Can you hear any still,
small voice calling out to you at all?

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I have to admit that this is sounding like some other debates about how
C is the true ONE, and C++ is basically akin to the anti-Christ. I have
read other threads like that before: Lang Wars! Might be a funny name
for a sarcastic book. ;^)

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/2/2018 4:03 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/02/2018 06:54 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/2/2018 3:39 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> What God offers everyone who will seek the truth is escape
>>> from that judgment.
>>
>> Afaict, all beings go through judgment. Some might have something like:
>> You ripped off a candy bar from a store when you were 7 years old.
>>
>> Others might be:
>> you murdered millions of people!
>>
>> There is a difference.
>
> One sin condemns a soul to Hell forever:

[...]

Stealing candy vs murdering millions? There has to be a degree of sin!
God damn it. YIKES!

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Consider the binary state of innocent person and law transgressor. One
breaking of the law and you move from innocent to transgressor. That's
how it is with sin.

The Bible does talk about degrees of sin. For example, for a person in
a teaching position to mislead those who are God's (to give people a
false teaching), the Bible says "it is better for that person to have
a millstone tied around their neck and be cast in the sea." And there
are some who did not receive the Apostles when they went out, and Jesus
commanded the Apostles to shake the dust off their feet as a testimony
against them, stating it would be better for the inhabitants of Sodom
and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for them.

So there are degrees. But, moving from unsinful to sinful requires one
sin. And, we actually all carry Adam's original sin (dead in our spirit
because of what Adam did, and because we all descend from Adam and Eve).

All of us need to be forgiven. Those who can see their sinful state are
being blessed by God with that knowledge so they can come out from the
world, from their sin, repent of the bad things they're doing (to stop
sinning), and to ask Jesus to forgive them.

All who do this are saved. The rest remain as they are (unsaved, on
their way to judgment).

You can see a visualization of this in this video:

Begins at 23:33:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es7w8G6Q5oc&t=23m33s

The guilty come forward with the "red" in their folders showing their
sin. All have guilt, including those Jesus saves. But, in the case
of those who ask Jesus for forgiveness, He exchanges an empty folder
for their sinful folder, leaving them sin-free and innocent again be-
fore God.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:08:36 -0400
"Rick C Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>sin. And, we actually all carry Adam's original sin (dead in our spirit
>because of what Adam did, and because we all descend from Adam and Eve).

Funny how the bible claims that we're all descended from 2 people yet incest
is also sin. It remains strangely silent when it comes to squaring that
contradictory circle.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Incest wasn't sin in the beginning. It's only become sin since the time
of Moses, when the accumulation of genetic defects from the time of our
creation began to impact our DNA. God knew this would happen, so he made
a law to not marry close relatives. Why?

Marrying close relatives meant the errors you have will be similar to
the errors your close relatives have, meaning the DNA would not be via-
ble for the offspring. If you marry someone who's not your close rela-
tive, then you'll be far less likely to have the same errors, so be-
tween the two of you, viable DNA will be passed on to your children.

But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to
accumulate errors at a certain rate, and it took a couple thousand years
to accumulate enough errors to begin affecting things. Going back to
Adam and Eve, that original DNA actually contained all of the different
variations of people types that we see (the Eskimos, those with blonde
hair, blue eyes, green eyes, dark skin, red skin, yellow skin, long legs,
short legs, wide faces, narrow faces, etc.).

It's similar to how you take a mutt and when it has puppies there's a
wide range of dog styles that come out. With Adam and Eve, they would've
had children of all different kinds, who would've gone on and done the
same, but over time more and more specialized, just as is seen when you
breed animals.

Here's a video explaining how it works:

Begins at 8:52:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbODW6XO8zY&t=8m52s

It all aligns with science. It all aligns with what we can observe and
see and test and examine. And it explains the things we find in the
fossil record.

The Bible does not hide from science. It explains science in the way
which maintains God's presence in our lives, and it points out the flaws
and errors in the worldview with evolution, which is un-provable.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 09:58:18 -0400

"Rick C Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2018 9:44 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:08:36 -0400
>> "Rick C Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> sin. And, we actually all carry Adam's original sin (dead in our spirit
>>> because of what Adam did, and because we all descend from Adam and Eve).
>>
>> Funny how the bible claims that we're all descended from 2 people yet incest
>> is also sin. It remains strangely silent when it comes to squaring that
>> contradictory circle.
>
>
>Incest wasn't sin in the beginning. It's only become sin since the time
>of Moses, when the accumulation of genetic defects from the time of our
>creation began to impact our DNA. God knew this would happen, so he made

Odd, I don't remember the bible mentioning DNA coding errors either. But
perhaps my school RE lessons weren't up to scratch.

>But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to

Was it? Presumably they weren't human then because the human body is full of
piss poor optimisations that no self respecting divine designer would have
put in.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/11/2018 10:24 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
> "Rick C Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Incest wasn't sin in the beginning. It's only become sin since the time
>> of Moses, when the accumulation of genetic defects from the time of our
>> creation began to impact our DNA. God knew this would happen, so he made
>
> Odd, I don't remember the bible mentioning DNA coding errors either. But
> perhaps my school RE lessons weren't up to scratch.

The Bible teaches also: "Come, let us reason together."

Do you expect a 5 year old to understand calculus? That child has to
grow, and learn, and when they mature and enter a university math class
they can then be introduced to calculus.

In our history, there has not been great technology throughout most of
our time on this Earth. There was useful technology being introduced,
but it's only been in the past several hundred years that we've had
more and more knowledge being conveyed and built upon, through books,
through a sharing of information.

This was prophesied in the book of Daniel simply:

Daniel 12:4
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book,
even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,
and knowledge shall be increased.

>> But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to
>
> Was it? Presumably they weren't human then because the human body is full of
> piss poor optimisations that no self respecting divine designer would have
> put in.

Sin has affected the whole world. Animals used to all eat grass and
herbs. Trees and plants didn't have thorns and thistles. The snake
used to have legs.

Sin resulted in natural changes to the Earth, plus there were things
that sin introduced which now enabled things apart from God's plan
per His original design.

He promises to restore all things to the way they were intended in
the millennial reign.

-----
You are hostile toward the things of God, boltar. You begin with
the assumption you are right, and the things of God are wrong. That
attitude keeps you from learning the truth.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

Scientific truth:
Evidence based assumptions tested in the field.

Biblcal truth:
Some stories written by donkey riding peasents 2000+ years ago and mistranslated
ever since.

Hmm, I wonder which I should trust more? Tricky....

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 9/11/2018 11:12 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:49:04 -0400
> "Rick C Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You are hostile toward the things of God, boltar. You begin with
>> the assumption you are right, and the things of God are wrong. That
>> attitude keeps you from learning the truth.
>
> Scientific truth:
> Evidence based assumptions tested in the field.

Everything the Bible teaches on can be correlated with what we do
observe in the fossil record, in the laboratory, or in intelligent
reason and conjecture.

The parts that require faith are those thing which are the miracles
of God ... but even then, through intelligent reason an conjecture,
couldn't an all-powerful God do miracles? Of course He could. So
even those miracles stand up to our reason.

> Biblcal truth:
> Some stories written by donkey riding peasents 2000+ years ago and mistranslated
> ever since.
>
> Hmm, I wonder which I should trust more? Tricky....

Not everybody will be saved, boltar. This information is given to
you so that if you can hear the truth on the inside, then you will
come out from the world, repent of your sin, ask forgiveness and
be saved. If you cannot hear the truth, then it's given as a wit-
ness against you on the day of judgment.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I always thought there were people in the land of Nod.

[Ian Collins]

On 12/09/18 01:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to
> accumulate errors at a certain rate, and it took a couple thousand years
> to accumulate enough errors to begin affecting things. Going back to
> Adam and Eve, that original DNA actually contained all of the different
> variations of people types that we see (the Eskimos, those with blonde
> hair, blue eyes, green eyes, dark skin, red skin, yellow skin, long legs,
> short legs, wide faces, narrow faces, etc.).

And the Neanderthals (who weren't into C++ either) who gave us some of
our DNA? Oh wait, they died out before the earth was created. Tough
one that.

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You should point some of that high-powered intellect you apply toward
decryption algorithms toward a one-evening study of the book of Genesis
to remove your wrong thinking with facts.

There were people in the land of Nod ... AFTER Adam and Eve had them.
If you read in Genesis 5, you'll come across where it says when Adam
was 130 years old he lay with Eve and she conceived Seth, and "they
had other sons and daughters."

Adam and Eve began having children shortly after they were banished.
They may have had their first child ~9 months after being created, be-
cause before sin they would not have disobeyed God. And we know that
God gave them a command to be fruitful and multiply. But we also know
that Cain was born outside of Eden, indicating Adam and Eve's time in
the garden was not long, only a few months at most, and more likely,
only a few days or weeks.

All of the people came from Adam and Eve, and their children who then
began having children, who followed with more children, etc.

All of these questions are answered by study. And all of them have
half-answers and wrong answers given by the world by people who have
not looked intently into the Word of God studying it. All such people
who causally glance at the truth, but do not pursue so as to know it
and own that pursuit of it, will be left behind because they embraced
the lie, and would not seek the truth.

You can read Genesis 1-11 in a short stretch. The entire rest of the
Bible is based upon an understanding of what happened there:

Genesis 1-11 in scripture (and you can read the NIV, ESV, or other
version if you prefer more modern English, but go back to the KJV
for the truest conveyance of the original language message):

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1-11&version=KJV

-----
Here's a video giving you a 40,000 foot flyover of the book of Genesis:

Genesis 1-11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQI72THyO5I
Genesis 12-50: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4isSyennFo

That overview does not go into details, and is glosses over a great
many important things, but it is a high-level starting point that
will pique the curiosity of those seeking the truth.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Öö Tiib]

It does not matter. He can hand-wave away all science, whole biology,
geology, all physics, astronomy, paleontology and whatever other
science. It is totally pointless to discuss.

For example geology: Tens of millions of years of swampy forests of huge
ferns and scale trees fossilized as peat then another three hundreds
of millions of years of geological processes turned it into lignite ->
sub-bituminous coal -> bituminous coal -> anthracite. There are more
than tens of thousands of tonnes of it per square mile of earth surface and
so we have mined it for thousands of years since copper age, burnt
thousands of billions of tonnes of it as good fuel with what one can
smelt metals or fuel steam engines and there are still way more of it
left.

But ... his bronze age Arabian shepherd fairy tale says that it
somehow formed during single 40 (or was it 150) days long flood together
with rest of miles thick fossil-rich sedimentary rocks everywhere.
From what? If cover all dry land with thick forest and then turn that all
into coal then there are still several orders of magnitude of material
missing and we are only talking about single geological layer from Carboniferous. What can be there even to discuss?

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 23:19:09 UTC+3, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 12/09/18 01:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>
>>> But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to
>>> accumulate errors at a certain rate, and it took a couple thousand years
>>> to accumulate enough errors to begin affecting things. Going back to
>>> Adam and Eve, that original DNA actually contained all of the different
>>> variations of people types that we see (the Eskimos, those with blonde
>>> hair, blue eyes, green eyes, dark skin, red skin, yellow skin, long legs,
>>> short legs, wide faces, narrow faces, etc.).
>>
>> And the Neanderthals (who weren't into C++ either) who gave us some of
>> our DNA? Oh wait, they died out before the earth was created. Tough
>> one that.
>
> It does not matter. He can hand-wave away all science, whole biology,
> geology, all physics, astronomy, paleontology and whatever other
> science. It is totally pointless to discuss.
>
> For example geology: Tens of millions of years

You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
So the rest of your statement is invalid.

> of swampy forests of huge
> ferns and scale trees fossilized as peat then another three hundreds
> of millions of years of geological processes turned it into lignite ->
> sub-bituminous coal -> bituminous coal -> anthracite. There are more
> than tens of thousands of tonnes of it per square mile of earth surface and
> so we have mined it for thousands of years since copper age, burnt
> thousands of billions of tonnes of it as good fuel with what one can
> smelt metals or fuel steam engines and there are still way more of it
> left.
>
> But ... his bronze age Arabian shepherd fairy tale says that it
> somehow formed during single 40 (or was it 150) days long flood together
> with rest of miles thick fossil-rich sedimentary rocks everywhere.
> From what? If cover all dry land with thick forest and then turn that all
> into coal then there are still several orders of magnitude of material
> missing and we are only talking about single geological layer from Carboniferous. What can be there even to discuss?
>

There are people who say that. I do not say that. I say that
God put all of the resources we have in the Earth in the Earth
when He built it. In the book of Job He refers to when He laid
"the foundations of the Earth." We read about in the book of
Revelation about the New Jerusalem, and how it has twelve sep-
arate foundations of single crystals. Is it outside the realm
of possibility that God created the Earth in layers, depositing
those things we would later use, and that mankind has simply
come across these layers and assumed they were put down over
time because that's what we would expect apart from a creation
model which has them there from the day the Earth was built?

It comes down to seeking after the truth, Öö Tiib. If you are
looking for the truth, God will lead you to it. If you are
not looking for the truth, the enemy of God will lead you to
something you can think is the truth (at least you can think
that while you're here on this Earth, once you die and get to
the other side then you will know the truth, and the falseness
you were in pursuit of will be put to shame by the truth).

God has an interest in saving your soul. He puts all of His
information before you and invites you to come and prove Him
out. He invites you to put Him to the test. He invites you
to try and seek out the real answer to something to see if
you are able to find fault with Him.

Give it a try. Press in hard and seek to disprove what God
has given us in the Bible, in its explanation of the things
around us. You will not be able to find fault.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 12/09/18 02:03, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 23:19:09 UTC+3, Ian Collins  wrote:
>>> On 12/09/18 01:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect.  It only began to
>>>> accumulate errors at a certain rate, and it took a couple thousand
>>>> years
>>>> to accumulate enough errors to begin affecting things.  Going back to
>>>> Adam and Eve, that original DNA actually contained all of the different
>>>> variations of people types that we see (the Eskimos, those with blonde
>>>> hair, blue eyes, green eyes, dark skin, red skin, yellow skin, long
>>>> legs,
>>>> short legs, wide faces, narrow faces, etc.).
>>>
>>> And the Neanderthals (who weren't into C++ either) who gave us some of
>>> our DNA?  Oh wait, they died out before the earth was created.  Tough
>>> one that.
>>
>> It does not matter. He can hand-wave away all science, whole biology,
>> geology, all physics, astronomy, paleontology and whatever other
>> science. It is totally pointless to discuss.
>>
>> For example geology: Tens of millions of years
>
> You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
> So the rest of your statement is invalid.
>

Some people might say that about /your/ arguments...

[Öö Tiib]

On Wednesday, 12 September 2018 03:04:08 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 23:19:09 UTC+3, Ian Collins wrote:
> >> On 12/09/18 01:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >>>
> >>> But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to
> >>> accumulate errors at a certain rate, and it took a couple thousand years
> >>> to accumulate enough errors to begin affecting things. Going back to
> >>> Adam and Eve, that original DNA actually contained all of the different
> >>> variations of people types that we see (the Eskimos, those with blonde
> >>> hair, blue eyes, green eyes, dark skin, red skin, yellow skin, long legs,
> >>> short legs, wide faces, narrow faces, etc.).
> >>
> >> And the Neanderthals (who weren't into C++ either) who gave us some of
> >> our DNA? Oh wait, they died out before the earth was created. Tough
> >> one that.
> >
> > It does not matter. He can hand-wave away all science, whole biology,
> > geology, all physics, astronomy, paleontology and whatever other
> > science. It is totally pointless to discuss.
> >
> > For example geology: Tens of millions of years
>
> You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
> So the rest of your statement is invalid.

The radiometric dating shows that age of Earth is 4.54 ± 0.05 billions
of years old and we have known it for a century. Refuting the facts
with hand-waving is invalid.

He put the countless fossils of those ferns and scale trees into
lignites and coals. Why? Carboniferous isn't even the oldest
fossil-rich geologic layer. Massive amounts of mineralized fossils
of multi-cellular lifeforms in all rock layers started from two
hundred millions of years earlier, from Cambrian.

> It comes down to seeking after the truth, Öö Tiib. If you are
> looking for the truth, God will lead you to it. If you are
> not looking for the truth, the enemy of God will lead you to
> something you can think is the truth (at least you can think
> that while you're here on this Earth, once you die and get to
> the other side then you will know the truth, and the falseness
> you were in pursuit of will be put to shame by the truth).

Truth can't be found from fairy tales. If there is god then he
wrote the world, the galaxies, stars and the rocks. Not fairy
tale books in Hebrew.

> God has an interest in saving your soul. He puts all of His
> information before you and invites you to come and prove Him
> out. He invites you to put Him to the test. He invites you
> to try and seek out the real answer to something to see if
> you are able to find fault with Him.
>
> Give it a try. Press in hard and seek to disprove what God
> has given us in the Bible, in its explanation of the things
> around us. You will not be able to find fault.

What is there to disprove? My mother and father made me. They
do not deny it. I did not have any souls before I did born. My
oldest memories start from time when I was two or three years
old. There were gods nowhere telling me what to do. Fairy tales
I started to read from age of 4.

[Ian Collins]

On 12/09/18 12:03, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 11 September 2018 23:19:09 UTC+3, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 12/09/18 01:58, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But in the beginning, Adam and Eve's DNA was perfect. It only began to
>>>> accumulate errors at a certain rate, and it took a couple thousand years
>>>> to accumulate enough errors to begin affecting things. Going back to
>>>> Adam and Eve, that original DNA actually contained all of the different
>>>> variations of people types that we see (the Eskimos, those with blonde
>>>> hair, blue eyes, green eyes, dark skin, red skin, yellow skin, long legs,
>>>> short legs, wide faces, narrow faces, etc.).
>>>
>>> And the Neanderthals (who weren't into C++ either) who gave us some of
>>> our DNA? Oh wait, they died out before the earth was created. Tough
>>> one that.
>>
>> It does not matter. He can hand-wave away all science, whole biology,
>> geology, all physics, astronomy, paleontology and whatever other
>> science. It is totally pointless to discuss.
>>
>> For example geology: Tens of millions of years
>
> You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
> So the rest of your statement is invalid.

Pot, kettle?

--
Ian.

[Scott Lurndal]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:

>
>You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
>So the rest of your statement is invalid.

PKB.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

That's the point. The arguments of "millions of years" or "billions
of years" is unprovable. People are asked to take it on faith, and
even that the science-so-called they use to "prove" it is accurate.

The truth is, none of us were here before we were born. And none of
our written history goes back beyond a few thousand years. There are
things we think are older, but we don't know ... because we weren't
there.

When you look at the Bible in whole, how it describes man's behavior,
why we have evil in this world, why we often try to do what's right
and still fail, the prophecies of the past that came true, and the up-
coming prophecies which are aligning with what the Bible teaches and
has taught for thousands of years ... I choose to trust God, because
I know what He says about my sin, and I know that He is right about
me, and I know that when I came to Him in 2004 asking forgiveness I
was changed ... and each of you can see the fruit of that change in
the way I conduct my life to this day, 14+ years later.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[Mr Flibble]

On 11/09/2018 16:28, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/11/2018 11:12 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:49:04 -0400
>> "Rick C Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You are hostile toward the things of God, boltar.  You begin with
>>> the assumption you are right, and the things of God are wrong.  That
>>> attitude keeps you from learning the truth.
>>
>> Scientific truth:
>> Evidence based assumptions tested in the field.
>
> Everything the Bible teaches on can be correlated with what we do
> observe in the fossil record, in the laboratory, or in intelligent
> reason and conjecture.
>
> The parts that require faith are those thing which are the miracles
> of God ... but even then, through intelligent reason an conjecture,
> couldn't an all-powerful God do miracles?  Of course He could.  So
> even those miracles stand up to our reason.

If God is able microwave a burrito so that it is too hot even for God to
eat then surely God isn't all-powerful as the burrito is too hot even for
God to eat.

God is a category error.

Speed of light mate.

/Flibble

--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a
world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."

[Ian Collins]

On 13/09/18 01:54, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/12/2018 2:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 12/09/18 02:03, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>>> For example geology: Tens of millions of years
>>>
>>> You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
>>> So the rest of your statement is invalid.
>>
>> Some people might say that about /your/ arguments...
>
> That's the point. The arguments of "millions of years" or "billions
> of years" is unprovable. People are asked to take it on faith, and
> even that the science-so-called they use to "prove" it is accurate.

So what you are saying is your god is a joker who created a universe
where all of the physical evidence points to it being billions of years
old just to trick people?

Yeah right!

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

No. I'm saying He implemented a system that is wholly integrated, and
then put man in that system.

It's as I've said before ... for video game scenes, we load from our
databases all of the components to make the things in those games exist.
We can load entire solar systems for space games. All manner of fish
and coral and what not for marine games, etc.

Think of God creating Adam. He would've had to have already distributed
nutrients to the various storehouses in the body. It could not be that
Adam woke up famished and dehydrated.

God is comprehensive, complete, and amazing. You should get to know
Him, Ian, rather than badmouthing Him and those like me who are His.

> Yeah right!

Yeah. Right. :-)

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

On 12/09/18 15:54, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/12/2018 2:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 12/09/18 02:03, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>>> For example geology: Tens of millions of years
>>>
>>> You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
>>> So the rest of your statement is invalid.
>>
>> Some people might say that about /your/ arguments...
>
> That's the point. The arguments of "millions of years" or "billions
> of years" is unprovable. People are asked to take it on faith, and
> even that the science-so-called they use to "prove" it is accurate.
>

No, people are /not/ asked to take science "on faith". Science is about
basing your understanding on evidence, observation, experiment, and
rational theory. Now, it is a long time (a couple of centuries) since
it was practical for any given person to have a broad understanding of
most of science. We have got so advanced that there simply isn't enough
hours in the day for any one person to study more than a few niche areas
in detail. But key to science is that there is no fundamental hinder to
anyone learning anything, finding out for themselves, or repeating the
same experiments.

So if /you/ want to be sure about radio carbon dating of an object,
there is nothing but time, effort and some money stopping you from
learning all about how radioactive decay works, how to measure it, how
the biological carbon cycle works, and how these work together to give a
handy clock to see when a plant or animal died. It would be a lot of
work - but anyone can do it, and lots of people /have/ done all those
parts.

Science is not "taken on faith" - it is repeated, questioned,
challenged, with experiments duplicated by different people in different
ways at different times. It is only when the evidence is overwhelming,
the theory is sound, the predictions born out, the experimental results
replicated by different groups - only then is it solid enough to be
called a "theory". And a scientific theory must be disprovable to be
valid - otherwise it is a pointless generalisation.

And only when a theory has stood the test of time, been shown to work in
a wide range of cases and fit with established knowledge, do we start to
think of it as "scientific fact" or "scientifically proven".

"Faith" is when someone says something, and you believe it simply
because you trust the person who said it. There is no room in science
for faith.

> The truth is, none of us were here before we were born. And none of
> our written history goes back beyond a few thousand years. There are
> things we think are older, but we don't know ... because we weren't
> there.

We have to have a certain amount of trust in the world we see around us,
and in the knowledge and experience passed on by others. Otherwise you
decay into a philosophy of "How do we know /for sure/ that we are not
all living in a matrix-like simulation?" Such ideas cannot be
disproved, but are pointless (precisely because they cannot be disproved).

>
> When you look at the Bible in whole, how it describes man's behavior,
> why we have evil in this world, why we often try to do what's right
> and still fail, the prophecies of the past that came true, and the up-
> coming prophecies which are aligning with what the Bible teaches and
> has taught for thousands of years ... I choose to trust God, because
> I know what He says about my sin, and I know that He is right about
> me, and I know that when I came to Him in 2004 asking forgiveness I
> was changed ... and each of you can see the fruit of that change in
> the way I conduct my life to this day, 14+ years later.
>

I don't have any argument against you wanting to read the Bible, or
believe in God. I am a strong fan of religious freedom - if you are
happier due to your faith, or you feel it makes you a better person,
then great. People can have whatever personal beliefs, faiths or
religions they want - and they can call them what they want.

I /do/ have something against how those beliefs might affect others.
But it is not because they are religious ideas, or anything else - it is
what people /do/ and /say/ that count in how they interact with others.
(Their motivation and reasons are important, but they are their own
business.)

I am keen on karate training. I can't say I am naturally well suited to
it, and started many decades too late to be particularly good. But it
is great for my health and general well-being. I have no doubts at all
that there are many people in this group who, like me, spend far too
much time in front of a keyboard - and who would greatly benefit from
starting karate. I am confident that if I persuaded people to take up
karate, at least some people here would live longer as a result. But if
I were to constantly harp on about it in this group, do you think it
would be appropriate? No one else would.

Do you think it would be right of me to claim that karate was the only
true way to stay in shape, and that people going to the gym, or playing
football, or walking in the hills are all wrong? Do you think it would
be right of me to patronise or degrade people who choose not to exercise
at all? Of course not - we should respect people's freedom to choose
for themselves. The same applies in religion - I respect your right to
choose to be a Christian, but I expect /you/ to respect other people's
right to have a different religion or no religion.

And I expect you to understand what your faith is, and not claim it to
be something it is not. I don't claim that karate is a good way to get
fresh air, and I don't expect a footballer to claim their training is
self-defence. I don't expect a scientist to say his is proving or
disproving the existence of a god, or ghosts, or any other supernatural
phenomena. A scientist can say he/she finds no evidence supporting such
things - but no more than that. (Some people in this group have
suggested that science such as evolution, DNA, or the speed of light
"disprove" God or the Bible. They are wrong. The science removes the
/need/ for religion to explain many things that were beyond the
knowledge of people long ago, but it does not /disprove/ them.)

Equally, however, you cannot use religion to change or "disprove"
science. You /can/ say "I believe the Bible's story of the creation of
the universe. Therefore science has got something wrong" or "I believe
the Bible's story of the history of mankind. Scientists and historians
have been fooled by Satan." What you /cannot/ say is "science says the
Bible is right", or "scientific evidence shows the flood really
happened". These things are plain and simple nonsense, and they are
unworthy of any thinking person. They are the kind of drivel used by TV
preachers to con money out of the easily fooled - and I would like to
hope you are not one of those people (either the money-grabbing con men,
or the naïve souls they prey on).


Now, that is far too long an off-topic post for this group. I will try
to resist the temptation to do so again for a while - unless, of course,
someone wants to know more about karate :-)

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 18:01:24 -0400

"Rick C Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

>No. I'm saying He implemented a system that is wholly integrated, and
>then put man in that system.
>
>It's as I've said before ... for video game scenes, we load from our
>databases all of the components to make the things in those games exist.
>We can load entire solar systems for space games. All manner of fish
>and coral and what not for marine games, etc.

If you believe the universe is some kind of artificial construct with a built in
"cheat mode" whereby its creator can bypass the laws of physics to do anything
he wants then anything is possible and any argument about it is utterly
pointless.

[Ian Collins]

On 13/09/18 10:01, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 9/12/2018 5:56 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 13/09/18 01:54, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2018 2:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 12/09/18 02:03, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>>> On 09/11/2018 06:30 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>>>>> For example geology: Tens of millions of years
>>>>>
>>>>> You begin here with an assertion you assume, but cannot prove.
>>>>> So the rest of your statement is invalid.
>>>>
>>>> Some people might say that about /your/ arguments...
>>>
>>> That's the point.  The arguments of "millions of years" or "billions
>>> of years" is unprovable.  People are asked to take it on faith, and
>>> even that the science-so-called they use to "prove" it is accurate.
>>
>> So what you are saying is your god is a joker who created a universe where
>> all of the physical evidence points to it being billions of years old just to
>> trick people?
>
> No. I'm saying He implemented a system that is wholly integrated, and
> then put man in that system.

A system that is wholly integrated where all of the physical evidence
points to it being billions of years old? Why would creator go to such
extraordinary lengths to deceive its creation?

--
Ian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It's not deception. It's truth. It's the way things are, but
the enemy of God teaches you, attempts to convince you it is
deception, but it is not. YOU believe it's deception because
you are willing to listen to that enemy and are unwilling to
give God an ear.

As such, it appears to you to be deception, and this turning away
from God will further divide you from Him by your choices.

It's the same reason Jesus spoke in parables, so they would be ever
hearing, yet never understanding. Every seeing, yet never
comprehending:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13%3A10-17&version=KJV

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest
thou unto them in parables?
==> 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given
unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,
but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall
have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him
shall be taken away even that he hath.
==> 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they
seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do
they understand.
==> 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which
saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand;
and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Here we see God is willing to save all people, but because of
their hard heart, He cannot. They divide themselves from God's
grace by their willingness to follow falseness:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears
are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed;
lest at any time they should see with their eyes and
hear with their ears, and should understand with their
heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
==> 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears,
for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous
men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have
not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and
have not heard them.

-----
This world is a proving ground. It sifts people. It bins them.
Each is given opportunity and scenario after opportunity and
scenario. We respond as we do and our responses are recorded
in books in Heaven to be used on the day of our judgment.

"It bins them," you say?

CPUs are binned. The hardware silicon dies come off a wafer
that's been processed. They're sliced up and tested. Most
fall in an average range and are binned into middle-of-the-road
chips for sale. Some have defective cores. These are sold as
value parts. Some perform exceptionally and are sold as server
parts or high-end enthusiast parts. Others are defective and are
scrapped.

We reveal to ourselves, to God, to the angels, to all od creation,
who we are, what our makeup is, what we'll believe, and what we'll
reject. We "prove" ourselves out in our lives, day by day, even
minute by minute.

God searches our hearts and minds, and for all those who will believe
the truth, He draws them to it, to His Son, so they can ask forgiveness
and be saved. The rest remain as they are, ever hearing, ever
seeing, yet never perceiving.

This world is not our permanent home. It is the test equipment
used to bin us, to prove us out, to set our future, to be that part
of God's Kingdom, either an average part, a value part, or a high-
end part given much responsibility and duty.

All of us will enter Heaven to be judged after we die, but not all
will remain there. Whether we do or not depends entirely on whether
or not we asked Jesus to forgive our sin, for the only way to enter
that perfect Kingdom is to be perfect, and in our sin we fall short.
Jesus came to take our sin away, to make us perfect, so we could
enter in.

Think about this, and ask questions in your mind. God will teach
you the truth if you honestly seek to know it. But beware, because
the enemy will give you an alternate explanation, a "lookalike" that
is not truth, but is the lie. Press in and seek the truth and
ask God to help you and He will.

It would be your best end to do so. You, Ian, and everyone else.

--
Rick C. Hodgin