The Problem with Christianity

[Rick C. Hodgin]

The Problem with Christianity:

Ken Ham lays out the problem with Christianity very very clearly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdBBH7bRoY&t=14m6s

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 30.07.16 um 04:26 schrieb Rick C. Hodgin:

> The Problem with Christianity:
>
> Ken Ham lays out the problem with Christianity very very clearly:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdBBH7bRoY&t=14m6s

I think the best description of its problems can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

Christian

[J. Clarke]

In article <nnhd8m$ihi$1...@dont-email.me>, auri...@gmx.de says...

The biggest problem with Christianity is morons who give it a bad name
by constantly bringing it up in venues where discussion of religion is
not appropriate.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 6:11:11 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> The biggest problem with Christianity is morons who give it a bad name
> by constantly bringing it up in venues where discussion of religion is
> not appropriate.

There are no inappropriate venues, J. Clarke. Everyone who has rejected the
truth will come to this knowledge as the first thing they're aware of
happening immediately after death, because they will go to sleep, and then
be summoned by name to appear before God and give an account of their life.

At that point, everyone will know the truth. People will see God, see
Heaven, see eternity, and they will want it because it really is glorious.
But, because they were not forgiven by Jesus Christ, their sin debt remains,
and their name was not written down in the Lamb's Book of Life. As such,
they will be cast headlong into the burning lake of fire:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/20-15.htm
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into
the lake of fire."

J. Clarke, Christians speak these things to people to warn them. When a
person is not actively seeking after truth, God, the Bible, a personal
relationship with Jesus Christ, there is another spirit here on this Earth
who is more than willing to step in and guide you falsely. As such, that
spirit asserts itself in your life and you begin to take on that spirit's
thinking, beliefs, etc. But that spirit is the spirit of the anti-Christ,
and it is an enemy of God, and of you.

It becomes so pervasive that when someone like me speaks about the things
of the Bible, they are immediately ridiculed and cast negatively in people's
thinking. The person who does not seek after Jesus Christ sees no need or
value in doing so, because that enemy spirit has been teaching them alternate
ways which do not require those things. However, that non-requirement is
only focused here on the flesh, and not on the eternal needs of our soul and
our eternal life.

To be clear, it's an attack against you by that enemy who uses the limited
form of our fallen-in-sin nature here upon this Earth (our flesh only) to
leverage our reason, our thinking, our feelings against the things of God.
That enemy does this because he's an enemy.

What Jesus Christ did coming to this Earth was to undo the work of the enemy,
and to make it possible for us to, once again, know God, and walk with God,
even here in this fallen world.

I come forward, and other Christians come forward, to teach you these things,
so that you won't be deceived, so that you'll have the opportunity to hear
and know the truth.

If your pursue the truth, it won't be me or any other Christian who teaches
you these things, but God Himself will assert knowledge of them within your
very soul. You will hear things from me and others, and you, on your own,
by His gift to you in your inmost man, will know the truth of what I say.

But for those who are not seeking the truth, they will never come to know
this information as it will be forever hidden from them, only because they
would not seek or hear the truth, but were content to believe the lie, so
God gave them what they were in pursuit of after many attempts to reach
them.

Do not be so quick to dismiss what I'm teaching you, J. Clarke. You owe it
to yourself, your family, your friends, co-workers, neighbors, to seek out
the truth for yourself, and to prove it to yourself one way or the other.

My words point you to Jesus Christ and the Bible. There you will find truth
in all its Earthly glory for us to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus
Christ, and the recognition that we are here upon this Earth for but a tick
of the clock, and then eternity begins.

Our goals are far better suited considering eternity first, then the needs
of the things of this world second, because the things of eternity endure,
and the things of this world are temporal, which means the purpose of our
goals here upon this Earth are to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ,
so that we can be part of that eternity in a state reconciled rightly with
God, rather than being still in enmity with Him.

It's the best offering Jesus Christ has to give you, and the best offering
I have to give you: pointing you to Him for salvation, and eternal life.
And it's free for the taking ... all you have to do is come to Him and ask
Him to forgive you, and He will:

http://www.libsf.org/misc/love.html

[Öö Tiib]

On Saturday, 30 July 2016 14:57:47 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 6:11:11 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> > The biggest problem with Christianity is morons who give it a bad name
> > by constantly bringing it up in venues where discussion of religion is
> > not appropriate.
>
> There are no inappropriate venues, J. Clarke.

Most people know that they are about as good as others so they listen
to opinions of others. They see that they are weak, ignorant and
fallible.

However there are also morons who do think they are better than others,
always knowledgeable, always correct and may do what they want to and
do not need to listen to others. They think that others must listen to
them. There are no inappropriate venues for those rude morons.

Other people consider them repulsive, Rick. If there is God then He
will not thank you for that imago.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

There is a God. He has commanded us to go forth and teach and make
disciples. This is not an "I'll be over here with a sign. If any of
you, on your own, decide that you too want to follow Jesus, then I'll
be here waiting for you" type of endeavor.

Christianity is active. We teach people the truth. We warn them of
sin and the consequences of sin. We do this so they too can come to
know the truth, repent of their sin, ask forgiveness, and be saved.

That is all.

[JiiPee]

Even though am a christian, i kind of agree that C++ forum is not a
place to start religious arguments :)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I don't argue or debate with people. I teach them. I teach the truth
about sin, their nature, eternity and eternal life, and their need for
a savior (Jesus Christ) to pay the price of their sin for them, so that
they are set free from the punishment of sin.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 10:39:06 AM UTC-4, Öö Tiib wrote:

> If there is God then He will not thank you for that imago.

There is a God. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. Why flesh when we can't
see God? Because He came here to save us. He came to here to give us a way
out of the punishment required by God for sin.

Jesus told us the world would hate us. He told us that they would kill us
even. It's no surprise that many are offended by the gospel message because
many people are not going to be saved (because they will not be saved).

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 31 July 2016 14:07:06 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 10:39:06 AM UTC-4, Öö Tiib wrote:
> > If there is God then He will not thank you for that imago.
>
> There is a God.

Ok, then be prepared to meet His endless forgiveness for being such an
arse of a person.

> Jesus told us the world would hate us. He told us that they would kill us
> even. It's no surprise that many are offended by the gospel message because
> many people are not going to be saved (because they will not be saved).

You misunderstood John 15. May be you did not even read it. Lot of idiots
like you are too impatient to read the Book. They think it is like license
agreement, scroll to end and press yes and you are forgiven and in heaven.

Jesus told in John 15 that people will hate you because they hate Him and
His Father. That may well be. However on current case you make people to
hate you because of being annoying self-centered asshole. That has nothing
to do with Jesus. That wasn't what Jesus suggested you to be at first place.

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 31 July 2016 14:03:40 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 12:29:04 PM UTC-4, JiiPee wrote:
> > On 30/07/2016 11:10, J. Clarke wrote:
> > > In article <nnhd8m$ihi$1...@dont-email.me>, auri...@gmx.de says...
> > >> Am 30.07.16 um 04:26 schrieb Rick C. Hodgin:
> > >>> The Problem with Christianity:
> > >>>
> > >>> Ken Ham lays out the problem with Christianity very very clearly:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdBBH7bRoY&t=14m6s
> > >> I think the best description of its problems can be found here:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
> > >>
> > >> Christian
> > > The biggest problem with Christianity is morons who give it a bad name
> > > by constantly bringing it up in venues where discussion of religion is
> > > not appropriate.
> >
> > Even though am a christian, i kind of agree that C++ forum is not a
> > place to start religious arguments :)
>
> I don't argue or debate with people. I teach them.

No, you annoy people. We try to forgive you that sin because we understand
that you are self-centered idiot and can't help yourself.

[Vir Campestris]

On 30/07/2016 03:26, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> The Problem with Christianity:

Leave it Rick. If they want to be happy with their beliefs when they
aren't harming anyone, then let them.

Andy

[Rick C. Hodgin]

We are to teach people, Andy. The efforts Jesus asks us to give by
going out into the world and teaching and making disciples is not
given for those who will never come to believe, but it is for those
who will come to believe.

We do not labor for the non-believers, but for the future believers,
just as not one drop of Christ's blood was shed for non-believers, but
only for believers.

Many souls will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity because
they would not believe. But unless we teach them, they have no chance
to believe. I care enough about teaching people the truth, and in
giving them that opportunity to come to know Him that I am willing to
risk all the scorn and ridicule because of it.

Some people also did this for me and finally, after years of hearing
about it from various people, I finally sought the truth in 2004 and I
found it. I was seeking to know if what they were saying was honestly
true or not. I discovered, much to my surprise, that it was, and in the
process I was born again. My life has been forever changed from that
point forward. And I wish to give other people the same opportunity God
gave me through them to come to Him, even when I was in my mid-30s after
having left the church at age 15 because of the extremely overt hypocrisy.

[red floyd]

On 8/1/2016 12:56 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> [redacted]

> My life has been forever changed from that
> point forward.

That's nice. Now SHUT UP ABOUT IT.

[Mr Flibble]

Here is a room full of Hodgins and Woods trying to drown out a poor
Satanist attempting to express his religious freedom by saying a prayer:

https://twitter.com/tehcoder42/status/760245156478058504

Hypocrites.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It's not the religious freedom that's the issue, Leigh. It's the battle
that's unseen by the unsaved, which is a spiritual battle for men's souls.

Because of sin, people are dead spiritually. They must be born again to
enter in to eternal life. The evil spirits of this world use that total
blindness to the spirit world to influence our flesh to do things which
are evil.

Christians do not fight against people. Many still do, but it's only
out of ignorance and it's not what the Bible teaches us to do.

Our goals are the people, and are enemies are the evil spirits:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/ephesians/6.htm
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of
his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand
against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness
of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be
able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having
on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the
preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able
to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit,
which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and
watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all
saints;

There is an invisible war at work, which has evidence in the Bible, and
evidence in each of our lives:

Dr. Steve Lawson "The Invisible War"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDVWvOQvlK8

Christians are not fighting the people. They are fighting the evil
spirits which are enticing people who are not born again to bright about
things which are designed to deceive people into Hell, by imposing their
spiritual nature influence upon the flesh, so as to mislead the flesh.

Christians fight against evil spirits, against wickedness in high places,
against principalities and dark rulers at work in this world.

Our goals are ALWAYS in saving the people by teaching them the truth
about Jesus Christ

[Real Troll]

> <snipped due to Sharia Law in force>

It's a good idea to use namespace like so:

> #include <iostream>
> using namespace std;
>
> int main()
> {
> cout << "Hello World";
> return 0;
> }
This avoids using std::cout << "Your string goes here";

that's enough for today on religion.

[Daniel]

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 7:57:47 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> People will see God, see
> Heaven, see eternity, and they will want it because it really is glorious.

Not everyone agrees with that, though, see Mark Twain's Letter II.

http://www.classicreader.com/book/1930/3/

> But, because they were not forgiven by Jesus Christ, their sin debt remains,
> and their name was not written down in the Lamb's Book of Life. As such,
> they will be cast headlong into the burning lake of fire:
>

Or worse

http://www.stereophile.com/cables/804aq/index.html#sQc5Lxl9soccSZKk.97

>
> My words point you to Jesus Christ and the Bible.
>

What about the older Mesopotamia polytheistic traditions that predate Judaism,
from which the later Judaic stories evolved from? Don't you find the older
stories more convincing, for example, that the divine assembly's motivation
for destroying humans with the flood was because they were making too much
noise and keeping the divine patron Enlil from his sleep? And that the
deity that created humans, Ea-Enki, interfered with Enlil by advising
Atrahasis to build a barge? And that the divine assembly finally came around
when they found that with all the humans dead, there were no sacrifices for
the divine patrons to eat or drink?

> It's the best offering Jesus Christ has to give you, and the best offering
> I have to give you: pointing you to Him for salvation, and eternal life.
> And it's free for the taking ... all you have to do is come to Him and ask
> Him to forgive you, and He will:
>

It seems unconvincing to me that the deities would be so obsessed with humans
coming to them and asking for forgiveness. For what reason would they want
that? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to think that they created humans
for entertainment? Think about yourself, which would you rather watch, an
entertaining show? or a procession of people asking you for forgiveness?

If the deities created you for entertainment, you should seriously consider
doing something interesting, or they might turn you off.

Be well,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You learn the truth by searching for it.

Read and study the Bible, and specifically Jesus Christ. It is not just
a book written by men with fables and stories. It is God's own writing
through the Holy Spirit through men. He Himself will confirm within you
the truth of the content in ways your flesh cannot comprehend.

There is a war on for your soul. A casual examination is enough to keep
the truth hidden from you, but a full-on pursuit is required to find it.
All who pursue the truth in this way find it. That's a promise from God
Himself.

[Scott Lurndal]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:

>
>You learn the truth by searching for it.
>

You are star stuff - every molecule in your body was created
in the heart of a star, at some time in the past.

You are the universe made manifest.

To crib from R.A.H., thou art god.

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 12:38:19 AM UTC-4, Real Troll wrote:
>
> It's a good idea to use namespace like so:
>
> > #include <iostream>
> > using namespace std;
> >

I understand now why this thread was flagged for abuse!

Daniel

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 11:51:12 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> Read and study the Bible, and specifically Jesus Christ.

Rick,

I understand you like the Judaic stories and monotheistic traditions. I would encourage you, though, to also read the translations of the older Mesopotamia texts, elements of which were incorporated into the later Judaic texts. I think you might like Old Testament Parallels by Victor Harold Matthews. With the polytheist stories, there are aspects of conflict between the deities, which is interesting, but lost in the monotheistic traditions. In the monotheistic traditions the deity tends to develop an unhealthy obsession with humans, perhaps because he doesn't have any other deities to socialize with. Although I suppose you could argue that Christianity brought something like polytheism back, with the notion of the trinity.

Best wishes,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

There is an enemy of God at work in this world teaching false things. God
teaches us true things. We do not automatically turn to God because we are
fallen in sin. We believe the enemy's lies ahead of God's truth because
God is spirit, and His words are spirit and they are life. The enemy speaks
to our flesh, our feelings, our emotions, our flesh-based reason. He has
a goal in so doing, and that is to deceive us so we will not come to God,
will not come to Jesus Christ, will not come to truth, and therefore be
saved.

The enemy is trying to keep you from coming to the truth, and to that which
is yours for the taking: eternal life in the paradise of God.

I teach and point you to the truth. I point you to read and study the
Bible, Daniel. God Himself will reveal the truth of it within your soul,
if you will pursue it. It won't be me or any other person convincing you,
but God Himself will convince you of its truth because it is just that:
truth.

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> I point you to read and study the Bible

I agree with you that the biblical stories and traditions are important,
as is the older body of texts that the biblical traditions drew on, and
altered to their needs.

> God Himself will reveal the truth of it within your soul,

> if you will pursue it ... but God Himself will convince you of its truth

> because it is just that: truth.
>

Now I think you're satirizing the Christian way of proselytizing :-) (blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed, etc.)

Best regards,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 2:52:55 PM UTC-4, Daniel wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >
> > I point you to read and study the Bible
>
> I agree with you that the biblical stories and traditions are important,
> as is the older body of texts that the biblical traditions drew on, and
> altered to their needs.

The Bible is a fundamental document. It does not draw from other sources.
There is, however, an enemy of God who seeks to undermine the knowledge of
God by introducing all manner of lies regarding God, His prophets, the
recording of history through the Biblical account, but as we go along even
our sciences are proving everything the Bible says is true.

It's the nature of truth. It speaks with one voice and cannot lie. It is,
therefore, no matter how it's examined, or in which way it's scrutinized,
always standing upon its own statements and self.

Lies, however, can appear to be a particular way, but always crumble under
close scrutiny.

> > God Himself will reveal the truth of it within your soul,
> > if you will pursue it ... but God Himself will convince you of its truth
> > because it is just that: truth.
> >
> Now I think you're satirizing the Christian way of proselytizing :-) (blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed, etc.)

Read and study the scriptures, Daniel. Themselves. Not other sources as
well. You'll find they are consistent, and they tell a story that is not
found in any other document, past, present, or future.

God Himself is the author of the Bible, His Holy Spirit at work through
men, penning those things He would give to us from the beginning, through
until the time of today, and until the end time.

[Mr Flibble]

On 02/08/2016 21:05, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 2:52:55 PM UTC-4, Daniel wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>
>>> I point you to read and study the Bible
>>
>> I agree with you that the biblical stories and traditions are important,
>> as is the older body of texts that the biblical traditions drew on, and
>> altered to their needs.
>
> The Bible is a fundamental document. It does not draw from other sources.
> There is, however, an enemy of God who seeks to undermine the knowledge of
> God by introducing all manner of lies regarding God, His prophets, the

God doesn't exist though.

> recording of history through the Biblical account, but as we go along even
> our sciences are proving everything the Bible says is true.
>
> It's the nature of truth. It speaks with one voice and cannot lie. It is,
> therefore, no matter how it's examined, or in which way it's scrutinized,
> always standing upon its own statements and self.

The Bible is erroneous; we know this thanks to the evidence.

>
> Lies, however, can appear to be a particular way, but always crumble under
> close scrutiny.

What lies?

Satanism seems like a good religion for an atheist. Maybe I shall
become a Satanist. Yes. I am now a Satanist.

/Flibble

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 4:05:56 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Read and study the scriptures, Daniel. Themselves. Not other sources as
> well. You'll find they are consistent, and they tell a story that is not
> found in any other document, past, present, or future.
>

Rick,

I find it illuminating to read your responses because they illustrate the
power of the story and the story teller, how great stories affect us and give
meaning to our lives. I can understand a little of your awe by remembering the
affect on my thinking of the stories I read when I was young, particularly
Darkness at Noon by Arthur Koestler, and the burnt out cases by Graham Green.

Protests aside, I still think you would find it interesting to read about the
relationship between the writings of the Old Testament and other, more
ancient, Near Eastern literature. If you come from an evangelical background,
you might even experience that as a dangerous pleasure! But I have no doubt
you would enjoy other takes on the familiar stories.

Kindest regards,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 5:27:45 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
> [snip]

I thought you added me to your banned list.

FWIW, Leigh, I'm very impressed with your neogfx library. It's quite
beautiful.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You see a similarity between the things of the Bible and what you call
prior writings.

I'll point you to a conclusion drawn by Napoleon Bonaparte regarding Jesus
Christ and Christianity. Bearing in mind that God is one, and that He
does not change, and is the same yesterday, today, and forever, you can
place your assessment alongside his:

http://www.stempublishing.com/magazines/bt/BT17/1889_319_Napoleons_Testimony.html

"I know men, and I tell you that Jesus Christ is not a man. Superficial
minds see a resemblance between Christ and the founders of empires and
the gods of other religions. That resemblance does not exist. There is
between Christianity and every other religion the distance of infinity.

"We can say to the authors of every other religion, You are neither gods
nor the agents of Deity. You are but missionaries of falsehood, moulded
from the same clay with the rest of mortals. You are made with all the
passions and vices inseparable from them. Your temples and your priests
proclaim your origin. Such will be the judgment, the cry of conscience,
of whoever examines the gods and the temples of paganism..."

There is nothing like the Bible. It is the greatest selling book of all
time, and not for nothing. In it, you meet the One true God, God Almighty,
and you learn about Him, our life here on Earth, our future, why we're in
the state we're in, and the solution to our troubles (His Son).

There are no other documents anywhere which convey the history and teachings
of the Bible, as a single source from beginning to end, with the central
theme of everything being Jesus Christ, and His rescue of mankind from their
sin.

If you come to that realization, the rest of your life will be changed,
because you will be on the pursuit of truth.

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 7:04:26 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> There are no other documents anywhere which convey the history and teachings
> of the Bible, as a single source from beginning to end, with the central
> theme of everything being Jesus Christ, and His rescue of mankind from their
> sin.
>

I understand, it's the stories that interest you, not the scholarship that places
the texts in their historical context. Much like, I suppose, it's Shakespeare's
plays that interest me, not the Oxfordian vs Stratford debate.

Best wishes,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You've mentioned twice now that you recognize the stories are what interest
me.

I don't know where you come to that conclusion, but at not point have you
asked me what it was about the Bible that I am drawn to. My history as a
Christian began in childhood when I grew up in a home that went to church.
I grew up going to church, never thinking twice about it. When I began to
grow up I started to ask questions. I saw the hypocrisy in people's
actions, and the Biblical teachings. I concluded it was all a lie, and
stopped going to church at age 15. I was an atheist from that point
forward.

In 2004, a Christian co-worker was asking me questions about the Bible.
Being honest with myself, I got to the point where I had to confess that
I didn't know enough about the Bible to be able to refute his questions.
I was convinced the Bible was nonsense, and that God did not exist, and
that Jesus Christ was just a man who lived a couple thousand years ago,
and nothing more.

I knew in my core being that if I were to examine the Bible, I would come
to the realization that it's nonsense, and I could then dismiss it with
authority because I had studied it, garnered an understanding of it, and
came to the rational conclusion that it was bunk.

I resolved to honestly and truly learn the truth of the Bible. I wanted
to truly know what it said, why it said it, and so on.

In so doing, I set my sights on the truth. And to surprise beyond my
imagination, I became a believer as I began reading it. I was born again
and my life changed. That was 2004. I now see things through the born
again nature, and I am amazed by it to this day because it is real, and
it is more real than the things in this world.

This walk has cost me everything in my life. I currently do not have a
single friend who calls upon me to hang out. My wife and I were both non-
believers when we married, and we both had similar worldly appetites for
flesh-focused things. When I was born again, all of that changed for me,
but it did not change for her. She's still a non-believer to this day,
and I have no affection, no companionship, no close confidant in my wife,
yet we remain married because of my son (born in 2004).

It has cost me jobs, though not directly. Always indirectly. There's
always some other reason why I can no longer be employed there. It costs
me service at local shops where I walk in and they all move away and do
not help me, the "Christian customer."

And so on.

-----
My walk for Jesus Christ is only for one reason: I am born again, and I
have found the truth, and I know that He is the One we all need to be
saved from the sin we're in until we come to know Him.

A version of my testimony from years ago is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivvvs8ZqPUA

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 7:44:37 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> ... When I began to

> grow up I started to ask questions. I saw the hypocrisy in people's
> actions, and the Biblical teachings.

This should read:

"I saw the hypocrisy in people's actions, [compared to] the Biblical
teachings"

... meaning I saw people at church professing to believe in one thing from
the Biblical teachings, but then doing something completely different in
real life, and yet still calling themselves Christians. It offended me
that people could be so two-faced. I've often wondered even in my own
walk for the Lord, how many things He would be able to write on a list
that I am two-faced about, as I go through my life doing things that some
others might look at and say, "See, you hypocrite!"

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 03.08.16 um 01:04 schrieb Rick C. Hodgin:

> There is nothing like the Bible. It is the greatest selling book of all

> time, and not for nothing. In it, you meet the One true God, [...]

> There are no other documents anywhere which convey the history and teachings
> of the Bible, as a single source from beginning to end

You realize that the Bible was not written from the beginning to the
end, not even clericals claim this: it was compiled from different
"books", described in detail here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon

The different councils of Nicaea and Trent also played a role in this
process; i.e. the content of the bible was, in the end, an order, set by
law.
There are many similar books (Qumran, apokryphs, ...) that were excluded
in that process.

In contrast, according to the believers of Islam, the Quran was written
in one piece and dictated to Mohammed by God.

Christian

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 2:44:16 AM UTC-4, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> Am 03.08.16 um 01:04 schrieb Rick C. Hodgin:
> > There is nothing like the Bible. It is the greatest selling book of all
> > time, and not for nothing. In it, you meet the One true God, [...]
> > There are no other documents anywhere which convey the history and teachings
> > of the Bible, as a single source from beginning to end
>
> You realize that the Bible was not written from the beginning to the
> end, not even clericals claim this: it was compiled from different
> "books", described in detail here:

My statement was that the Bible was an assemblage over time from a single
author: God. It was assembled together from many separate books, but it
is one author, and has one purpose: to lead people to Jesus Christ (which
is to salvation, to forgiveness of sin, to restoration, to eternal life).

There may be aspects of other stories, other writings which convey similar
events to those of the Bible, but there is no single source document
anywhere that is as comprehensive. And I'll go so far as to say there
are no multi-source documents that could be scrounged together to either
be as comprehensive.

Why? Because it is God's written message to man.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon
>
> The different councils of Nicaea and Trent also played a role in this
> process; i.e. the content of the bible was, in the end, an order, set by
> law.
> There are many similar books (Qumran, apokryphs, ...) that were excluded
> in that process.
>
> In contrast, according to the believers of Islam, the Quran was written
> in one piece and dictated to Mohammed by God.

If you study the Quran, you'll find it contradicts itself, and is nothing
more than a doctrine of hate toward anyone except other Muslims.

[Mr Flibble]

You need to take a long hard look at yourself and your priorities and as
to what is more important in your life: your family or your ridiculous
faith which is predicated on the contents of an old book of fiction
written by men with stories of magic (a clue: it isn't the magic).

>
> It has cost me jobs, though not directly. Always indirectly. There's
> always some other reason why I can no longer be employed there. It costs

Maybe if you didn't post religious bullshit to technical forums pissing
lots of people off in the process you would find it easier to get work.
NOBODY is interested in your proselytising in technical forums.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 12:04:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
> [snip]

I thought you put me in a blocked / banned list.

Can a sparrow be anything other than a sparrow? If it tried, what would
it be?

I have been born again, Leigh. I can do nothing else. It is the same
for all people who are born again world-wide. They have a true, saving
encounter with Jesus Christ, and the falseness of this world is peeled
back before their eyes and they can see it, its harm, its hate, its
filth. They move toward God with everything they do from that point
forward.

[Mr Flibble]

Born again? What you mean is you had a psychotic episode probably during
a mid-life crisis and you started attaching religious significance to
your delusions rather than getting professional help (this is called a
lack of insight).

What you need is medication mate.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

When Jesus forgives your sins, you no longer have sins. Since the
punishment of sin is death (spiritual death, eternal death), even
though we are alive here in this world in our flesh, yet are we dead
in eternity. When Jesus takes our sin away, transferring them from
us to Him at the cross, then we are sin-free, and alive again in
eternity. When that happens, the previously dead spiritual component
of our nature becomes alive, and we are changed.

Our lives are then no longer as they were before, being flesh-only,
but we are now born again spiritually, alive spiritually, so we are
both flesh and spirit.

The two natures are in direct conflict, as the flesh is fallen in
sin, and the spirit is alive in eternity. The spirit is greater,
so born again believers overcome sin in their life and begin working
for those things God would have us work for.

It is internal, natural, completely spiritual, and for the most part
all people who come to faith and are born again are absolutely
astounded by the transformation, because it's not us doing it. It's
our spirit nature, and the work of His Holy Spirit in our lives.

And, like sight for a blind person ... it cannot be described to you
in a way you'll understand, just as what seeing is like cannot be
described to a blind person because they cannot understand sight
through that which they already know. But, if they could suddenly
see, no explanation would be required because it would be obvious
to them, as it is to us, what it's like to see.

For the born again person, the spirit nature asserts itself in a way
that's obvious to us, but it is nothing of the flesh, and the flesh
cannot understand it.

[Mr Flibble]

On 03/08/2016 17:49, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 12:18:34 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 03/08/2016 17:13, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 12:04:25 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I thought you put me in a blocked / banned list.
>>>
>>> Can a sparrow be anything other than a sparrow? If it tried, what would
>>> it be?
>>>
>>> I have been born again, Leigh. I can do nothing else. It is the same
>>> for all people who are born again world-wide. They have a true, saving
>>> encounter with Jesus Christ, and the falseness of this world is peeled
>>> back before their eyes and they can see it, its harm, its hate, its
>>> filth. They move toward God with everything they do from that point
>>> forward.
>>
>> Born again? What you mean is you had a psychotic episode probably during
>> a mid-life crisis and you started attaching religious significance to
>> your delusions rather than getting professional help (this is called a
>> lack of insight).
>>
>> What you need is medication mate.
>
> When Jesus forgives your sins, you no longer have sins. Since the

Nope, Jesus never existed. Also, as far as sins are concerned, the
seven deadly sins are all perfectly acceptable behaviour.

/Flibble

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 03.08.16 um 14:11 schrieb Rick C. Hodgin:

The Bible also contradicts itself. This is inevitable as soon as a book
is compiled from several sources, which you accepted.

Christian

[Mr Flibble]

He will now reply that there are no contradictions as the Bible is
written by God and you are being deceived by Satan's lies.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

The Bible does not contradict itself. There are a few places where it
appears to contradict itself, but upon closer scrutiny it does not.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Here's how Satan works:

He appears to our flesh, our flesh-based reasoning mind. He puts up
things which seem like they're truth, and at a glance would generally
be agreed upon everyone to be truth, or at least to be more than
likely truth, when in fact they are overt lies.

He does this so people who aren't really interested in pursuing the
truth will see a little, assume a lot, and run the other way under
the falseness. But for those who will take the time to dig deeper,
you'll find the truth is always there, and it's always the exact
opposite of what Satan has taught through the various mechanisms he
uses here in this world (people, ideas, doctrines, influences into
feelings, emotions, thoughts). As a spirit, he is able to inject
those things into our flesh, and we (since we have no ability to
discern the spirit) think it's just us thinking or feeling whatever
we are thinking or feeling, when in fact it's the DIRECT result of
that enemy spirit influence.

God promises that everyone who digs deep and pursues the truth will
find it. But for those content to believe whatever's on the surface,
whether it's true or not ... they are the ones who will be deceived.

There really is a battle on for your soul, your eternal life, your
existence in this universe. It really is taking place right now.
And your eternal destination really will be determined by what you
did with Jesus Christ, with truth.

[Mr Flibble]

See? I called it.

/Flibble

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 03.08.16 um 19:32 schrieb Mr Flibble:

> On 03/08/2016 18:26, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>
>> Here's how Satan works:

>> [...]
>
> See? I called it.

Yes - that was to be expected. Quite strangely it is possible to believe
in some reasonable sense, where you strictly separate divine and secular
worlds, but this here .... is probably a disorder.

Christian

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I can only point people to the truth. Each person must receive it for
themselves.

Not everybody's going to be saved. Many will perish.

[David Brown]

Certainly there are plenty of people who are mainly rational, logical,
educated and intelligent - and yet believe in a god of some sort. There
are people who study the cosmos, date dinosaur fossils, research
evolution, trace genetic markers in modern lifeforms back through
billions of years - and yet study the Bible (or Quran, or whatever) and
pray to god for guidance in their work.

But a key difference is that they don't claim that their faith negates
science - nor that science negates faith. They don't feel they have to
choose - they have both, and each part of them answers different
questions. They don't look to the Bible to explain how genetics works -
they don't look to their science research to explain how forgiveness of
sins works. They have a balance in their lives. Sure, that balance
will vary somewhat from person to person - but it is the balance and
combination that makes this seemingly contradictory situation work for them.

You make think it is strange to think that rational people can be so
convinced by a completely irrational belief. But it is an important
part of what makes us human. Even if we disregard religious beliefs or
other supernatural things, a good many rational people are or have been
in love. Biologically, being "in love" is close to bipolar disorder
(manic depression), while long-term love is psychologically similar to a
drug addiction. It is certainly irrational and illogical - but no one
sees that as contradictory or in conflict with a scientific mindframe.


The problems start when people get themselves in a jumble about these
different aspects of their lives. Religious faith won't explain
dinosaur fossils any better than love will - and equally, you can't
scientifically prove anything about a god any more than you can prove
anything about love.

[Christian Gollwitzer]

Am 04.08.16 um 10:17 schrieb David Brown:

> Certainly there are plenty of people who are mainly rational, logical,
> educated and intelligent - and yet believe in a god of some sort. There
> are people who study the cosmos, date dinosaur fossils, research
> evolution, trace genetic markers in modern lifeforms back through
> billions of years - and yet study the Bible (or Quran, or whatever) and
> pray to god for guidance in their work.
>
> But a key difference is that they don't claim that their faith negates
> science - nor that science negates faith. They don't feel they have to
> choose - they have both, and each part of them answers different
> questions. They don't look to the Bible to explain how genetics works -
> they don't look to their science research to explain how forgiveness of
> sins works. They have a balance in their lives. Sure, that balance
> will vary somewhat from person to person - but it is the balance and
> combination that makes this seemingly contradictory situation work for them.

I fully agree.

> You make think it is strange to think that rational people can be so
> convinced by a completely irrational belief.

If this is directed to me, then I came across in a wrong way. I have
been in that position for many years, only later dropped God out of my
worldview. So the key point, as you say above, is the clear separation
between religion and science, they answer different question.

> The problems start when people get themselves in a jumble about these
> different aspects of their lives.

In the case(s) observed in this group, the necessary distinction between
both worlds seems to be missing.


Christian

[David Brown]

On 04/08/16 11:10, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> Am 04.08.16 um 10:17 schrieb David Brown:

>> You make think it is strange to think that rational people can be so
>> convinced by a completely irrational belief.
>
> If this is directed to me, then I came across in a wrong way. I have
> been in that position for many years, only later dropped God out of my
> worldview. So the key point, as you say above, is the clear separation
> between religion and science, they answer different question.
>

Sorry, no, it was not directed at you specifically. It was "you"
plural. ("Yous" in Glaswegian, or "All y'all" in some parts of the USA.)

>> The problems start when people get themselves in a jumble about these
>> different aspects of their lives.
>
> In the case(s) observed in this group, the necessary distinction between
> both worlds seems to be missing.
>

Well, as many people say, this is not really the right group for such
discussions. And many people who do make such distinctions, don't take
part in the discussions - perhaps precisely because they make the
distinction. (They probably don't talk about C++ in alt.religion groups
either.)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 4:17:24 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> ...Certainly there are plenty of people who are mainly rational, logical,
> educated and intelligent - and yet believe in a god of some sort...

http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/14-1.htm

"...The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."

> There
> are people who study the cosmos, date dinosaur fossils, research
> evolution, trace genetic markers in modern lifeforms back through
> billions of years - and yet study the Bible (or Quran, or whatever) and
> pray to god for guidance in their work.

To undermine the Genesis account of a literal six-day creation is to
undermine Jesus Christ, and everything about the Bible. If evolution
is true, then death came before Adam. If death came before Adam, then
Jesus died for nothing because death is the punishment of sin, and
Jesus came to free us from death by taking away our sin.

David, the Genesis account is true. You do not believe this today
because there is an enemy of God who is exceedingly clever, whipping
up all manner of alternate theories on everything that there is, every
subject, every topic, and all of it is designed to remove God from the
equation.

By removing God, by appealing to man's fallen-in-sin thinking and
reasoning, people will never see their sin as sin, will never see the
possibility of a real punishment, and therefore will never come to
Jesus Christ, ask forgiveness, and be saved.

In those cases ... the enemy wins, and you lose.

> But a key difference is that they don't claim that their faith negates
> science - nor that science negates faith.

Biblical Creationists will state that science will prove the Biblical
account. And it has and is proving it in all cases. At every point
in history where man has made some proclamation that they've proven
there is no God, later science has undone it.

The enemy always loses because truth always wins. But many will be
deceived into their own destruction because they didn't pursue the
truth, and in the absence of apparent truth, they didn't have faith
to stand upon God's word, but instead inclined to their own thinking,
which is corrupt because of sin, and can be deceived by the enemy
because of sin.

> The problems start when people get themselves in a jumble about these
> different aspects of their lives. Religious faith won't explain
> dinosaur fossils any better than love will - and equally, you can't
> scientifically prove anything about a god any more than you can prove
> anything about love.

You begin with a solid recognition and foundation that God is, He exists,
and the things He's created are as He's indicated. It proceeds forward
from there ("it" being your life, your thinking, your considerations,
and so on).

Biblical Creationists begin by saying: The Bible is true. Now, based
on what we see in nature, how do the two align together?

We see world-wide fossils in the rock layers and read the Biblical
account of a world-wide flood, and put the two together.

We see diverse animal forms in the fossil record, and a Biblical account
that God created kinds, coupled to the recent unimaginable complexity
found in genetic code realization, and conclude that it's too complex
to evolve, and contains too much specific and extremely specific coding
to have evolved, and then seek to ask, "Well, how then would we get
these varying forms in the past?" And we look again to the world around
us and see the various kinds, and the various species in each kind, and
realize that by selective breeding you can create a new-looking thing,
that is still like the original, but different, and then realize that
because DNA is so complex, all of that variability is already in there,
and that all we're doing is causing certain sequences to express themselves
by breeding, which is what has been happening all along naturally, because
God programmed it in there.

And it goes into all areas of our life here upon this Earth:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/19-1.htm
"...The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament
sheweth his handywork."

The Creator God. The Redeemer God. The One we all need. And for
so many, the One they flatly reject (because of sin, and sin's effect
on our inner makeup ... remember that Adam ate from the Tree of the
Knowledge of Good and Evil, and died spiritually that day, so now the
evil spirits, unseen demonic forces, can prowl around introducing all
manner of spiritual influence upon our flesh, so that we, in our total
blindness to all things spiritual, thinking only in flesh terms, come
to conclusions like: this thing I feel, this thing I believe, this
thought I just had, it can only have come from me! When in fact, it
is the result of a demon in your life, pumping you full of false ideas,
injecting into your thoughts false beliefs, false feelings, false
notions, enticing you through all of them to sin against God, and heap
up destruction for yourself, and all those around you.

-----
You are very good at this, David. The enemy has you pinned down in so
many areas, and you are convinced that you are correct when in fact you
are flatly wrong, because you've bought into the enemy's lies through
sin.

You are an intelligent person. You have a lot of good qualities. But
you are also believing lies because you are relying upon your flesh-
only, and are not seeking the truth out in things, but are hearing
something that sounds like it makes sense to your fallen flesh, and
probably has some corroborative feelings in your core (the result of
a false injection of those feelings by an evil spirit), so that you
then believe them without pursuing them out. Or when you do pursue
them out, you are listening to an invisible "tour guide" through the
idea, standing right beside you, seeing what you're seeing, reading
what you're reading, injecting the things it wants you to see or think
in the idea, by saying things to your mind, your thoughts, your feelings,
in real-time, so that you'll be led from assumption to assumption to
assumption.

Break the influence of these evil spirits, David. Seek the truth, and
press in hard and pursue it. You'll find every single one of the
enemy's lies will crumble completely under scrutiny. You'll find the
extent to which the deception is all around us, and only getting more
and more entrenched. But God is greater, and if you set your sights on
the truth, you too will find it. You too will be rescued from the
falseness. And you too will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

-----
You're being fooled into believing lies by the enemy, David. Is that
truly what you want? Or do you want to do the most simple and honest
thing there is: seek the truth out to its fullest extent, wherever it
leads you? Seek it hard, and purposefully, do not rest until you are
flatly assured in all areas that you have proven all things.

When you set your sights on the truth, God knows you are doing this,
and He will supernaturally remove the veil blinding you to the truth
today. He will make it possible for you to know the truth. He and
He alone.

It is all about God, David. But you can prove it to yourself by
simply setting your sights on the truth and running after it with all
you have. Do not let up until you have proven it out conclusively,
and in so doing ... you WILL find it.

[Daniel]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 8:34:48 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> there is an enemy of God who is exceedingly clever, whipping
> up all manner of alternate theories on everything that there is, every
> subject, every topic, and all of it is designed to remove God from the
> equation.
>

Rick,

Presumably this enemy of god is also a deity? So it sounds like your
interpretation of the stories is that Christianity retains elements of
polytheism, as in the older traditions.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 10:37:29 AM UTC-4, Daniel wrote:
> On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 8:34:48 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> > there is an enemy of God who is exceedingly clever, whipping
> > up all manner of alternate theories on everything that there is, every
> > subject, every topic, and all of it is designed to remove God from the
> > equation.
>
> Rick,

Daniel, you speak with the serpent's tongue. The statements you make
are clever and crafty, designed to ask an asserting question which
naturally leads then in a particular direction ("Do you still beat
your wife?"). All of them.

This will be the last time I reply to you directly because you are not
in any way in pursuit of the truth, but are trying to position me into
an area I don't occupy, as by your leading, to undermine God, His message,
by attempting to undermine me and the things I speak about.

> Presumably this enemy of god is also a deity?

The enemy is Satan. He was created the highest angel, the one with
closest access to God. He's called the "god of this age" in scripture
(http://biblehub.com/kjv/2_corinthians/4-4.htm), and the Bible records
there are many gods (lower-case "g"):

http://biblehub.com/kjv/deuteronomy/10-17.htm
"For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great
God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor
taketh reward:"

Jesus said also it was written that we are gods (lower-case "g"):

http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/10-34.htm
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye
are gods?"

The scripture He's referring to is:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/82-6.htm
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the
most High."

There are gods (created beings, lower-case "g"), and then there is
God Almighty. Jesus Christ is God Almighty, and He is the one true
God, the root of all.

> So it sounds like your
> interpretation

"My interpretation," a statement like "Do you still beat your wife?",
forcing me into the position of altering both parts of the premise, to
say I never did beat my wife, so I can't still be beating my wife.

Here you assert I have an interpretation that is my own, to which I
must refute that assertion because it's founded in falseness.

> of the stories

And again, I must refute that they are mere stories. They are God
conveying messages to us in ways we can understand. He uses parables,
not stories, to teach.

> is that Christianity retains elements of
> polytheism, as in the older traditions.

And again...

There is one God Almighty with sovereign authority, Daniel. You know
this. All people know this. But here it is in black-and-white so you
are now without excuse:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/1-8.htm
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

And a reference to Him being the Most High God:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/hebrews/6-13.htm
"For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no
greater, he sware by himself,"

http://biblehub.com/kjv/genesis/14-20.htm
"And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies
into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."

http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/91-1.htm
"He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide
under the shadow of the Almighty."

http://biblehub.com/kjv/exodus/7-12.htm
"For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents:
but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods."

There is one God Almighty, the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Father, Son,
Holy Spirit, just as we are soul, body, spirit.

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

By all means, please keep this off-topic thread alive so I know which
idiots to keep adding to my KILL file. It will help me weed out the
posters with no self-control or respect for charters in the future.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

[Mr Flibble]

On 04/08/2016 13:34, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
[snip]

Rick, you simply cannot back up your interpretation of the stories in
the Bible as being true; you have no evidence, none. Science has never
proven that God has existed nor has it ever proven that God does not exist.

The FACT that evolution happens (evidenced by the fossil record,
irregardless of any scientific theory) disproves the existence of your
god as your god is predicated on the Bible story that Adam had no
parents as being true. If humans evolved (which they did) there was no
first human.

You may claim that the fossil record is a creation of Satan to deceive
us but you have absolutely no evidence to backup that claim; it is
simply something you believe on faith which is something that I and many
others do not have to take seriously.

Why don't you just stop now with this off topic nonsense? You cannot win.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

You have not studied the Bible, Leigh. The proof is there. The true
explanations of why things are happening the way they are is there. What
you are learning about and seeing under the guise of "evolution" is, in
fact, a lie.

Here is how it really works, which also explains why you see various
changes in appearance in the fossil record over time:

From 16:01 up to about 29:02, but you'll get the idea quickly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbODW6XO8zY&t=16m1s

Satan is using our fallen-in-sin faulty reasoning against us, so that
he can espouse something that's a lie, and yet we will reason within
ourselves that it is true.

Examine the evidence, Leigh. When you dig deep you'll see the truth
of God upheld, and the lies of the devil cast down.

[Mr Flibble]

There is no evidence whatsoever backing up your viewpoint. If there was
evidence there would be no need for faith. So, are you saying you have
no faith because you think there is evidence backing up your beliefs?
You can't have it both ways mate.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

We can't see God. Even with the evidence pointing to Him, of which there
is a multitude, we still don't see Him. Not yet. That's where faith
comes in.

God revealed in the Bible many things: creation, sin, history, guidance,
truth, what's coming in the future, etc. We read about it. It's confirmed
here in the world through observation, and even more so now that we are
beginning to understand genetics.

But we still don't see God, just as we don't see love, yet we know love
exists. Just as we don't see hate, yet we know hate exists.

The invisible internal attributes are proven to us by the way things on
the outside then operate. Love lends toward loving things, hate toward
hating things. With God, His Creation lends toward the creator.

It is ONLY the enemy who espouses other things, and the enemy does that
because he's an enemy, and he's trying to under-mind God in all things.

Watch the video, Leigh. And watch this one. You'll be amazed at how
much truth has been suppressed by the evil forces at work in this world,
the ones gunning for your eternal soul:

Explains how evolution does not exist, but looks like it, but it's
actually from another source, one that is Biblical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbODW6XO8zY&t=16m1s

Real evidence man lived with dinosaurs, culminated from examples
over centuries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQIF7Yh3hI

-----
The proof is there. The enemy suppresses it. The enemy does not teach
it in school. The enemy teaches the alternate theory that removes God
from the equation, because in God there is truth, there is salvation in
His Son, there is eternal life.

The enemy does not want you to be forgiven, and be restored, to eternal
life. That's why the lies exist.

[Mr Flibble]

If there is evidence there is no need for faith. You are belittling the
faith of millions of your fellow Christians, good job.

[snip]

/Flibble

[Daniel]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 2:40:58 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> But we still don't see God, just as we don't see love, yet we know love
> exists. Just as we don't see hate, yet we know hate exists.
>

I think I see, as love and hate are emotional responses experienced by humans,
a notion of god is an emotional response experienced by humans. That doesn't
seem so very far off.

>
> Real evidence man lived with dinosaurs ...

Uh, oh :-) I think you're making fun of us now.

Kindest regards,
Daniel

[Rick C. Hodgin]

There is evidence. And there is faith. And the existence of evidence is
in line with scripture:

http://biblehub.com/kjv/romans/1-20.htm
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even
his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

You, Leigh, and others like you, know that God exists. You know it is
His creation. You know this because He created you and stamped you with
that knowledge.

It is only because of sin that you are able to look the other way, because
Adam ate from the tree of the knowledge of good AND EVIL, and now we can
also know and follow after evil.

-----
It's the best I have to offer you, Leigh: Seek the truth, and you will
find it.

As to whether or not you do, that's your choice. I pray you do, because
I would like to see you in Heaven.

[Mr Flibble]

Again: if there is evidence there is no need for faith. You are

belittling the faith of millions of your fellow Christians, good job.

[snip]

> You, Leigh, and others like you, know that God exists. You know it is
> His creation. You know this because He created you and stamped you with
> that knowledge.

LOL. I know your god doesn't exist mate.

[snip]

/Flibble

[Gareth Owen]

Mr Flibble <flibbleREM...@i42.co.uk> writes:

> There is no evidence whatsoever backing up your viewpoint. If there
> was evidence there would be no need for faith.

But the Babelfish is a dead giveaway, isn't it?

[Daniel]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 2:48:48 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>
> If there is evidence there is no need for faith. You are belittling the
> faith of millions of your fellow Christians, good job.
>

It's certainly possible that Rick's intention is to produce a polemic designed to
ridicule or undermine elements of traditional Christian world views. On the one
hand I would say yes, and on the other I would say no. I really don't know what
to think. But when he starts talking about "real evidence man lived with
dinosaurs ..." Wow. That's pretty far out there.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Real Troll]

On 04/08/2016 17:53, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> By all means, please keep this off-topic thread alive so I know which
> idiots to keep adding to my KILL file. It will help me weed out the
> posters with no self-control or respect for charters in the future.

You will find that you have nothing to read or follow because all there
is here is Christianity and how it can help your C++ programs!!

How about writing something simple like this so that Rick can learn from it:

> int square(int num)
> {
> int answer;
> answer = num * num; /* Does not check for overflow */
> return answer;
> }

[Daniel]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 4:00:11 PM UTC-4, Real Troll wrote:
> On 04/08/2016 17:53, Richard wrote:
> >
> > weed out the
> > posters with no self-control or respect for charters in the future.
>
> You will find that you have nothing to read or follow because all there
> is here is Christianity and how it can help your C++ programs!!
>

I was thinking the same :-) It's a very quiet newsgroup. The lack of activity
may make future generations question whether C++ existed at the same time as man.

Daniel

[Mr Flibble]

Avoid 'int' as it is non-portable/unsafe. Use the sized integer
typedefs from <cstdint> instead, e.g. int_fast32_t:

int_fast32_t square(int_fast32_t num)
{
return num * num; /* Does not check for overflow */
}

/Flibble

[Daniel]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 4:16:29 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>
> int_fast32_t square(int_fast32_t num)
> {
> return num * num; /* Does not check for overflow */
> }
>

You're still relying on faith that num * num does not overflow.

Daniel

[Mr Flibble]

Hence the comment.

/Flibble

[Real Troll]

On 04/08/2016 21:16, Mr Flibble wrote:
> Avoid 'int' as it is non-portable/unsafe. Use the sized integer
> typedefs from <cstdint> instead, e.g. int_fast32_t:
>
> int_fast32_t square(int_fast32_t num)
> {
> return num * num; /* Does not check for overflow */
> }

So is there any need to use int in modern programming?

Tried your suggestion and used <stdint.h> but as the program is very
small, there is no way to measure the speed but I take your word for it.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 10:05:02 PM UTC-4, Real Troll wrote:
> So is there any need to use int in modern programming?

Int is typically optimized to be the fastest type for the machine's
native word size. In most cases this equates naturally to a 32-bit
value, or 64-bit value even if the standard says it can be less. As
such, the substitute explicit-sized types could be used, but if you
are writing portable code designed for speed, and you know the machine
size targets will be at least 32-bits, for example, then using int
will be the fastest on the target hardware, while guaranteeing at
least 32-bits of data storage for the type (as per your knowledge of
the machine targets for the app).

[David Brown]

On 04/08/16 20:40, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 2:25:07 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:

>> There is no evidence whatsoever backing up your viewpoint. If there was
>> evidence there would be no need for faith. So, are you saying you have
>> no faith because you think there is evidence backing up your beliefs?
>> You can't have it both ways mate.
>
> We can't see God. Even with the evidence pointing to Him, of which there
> is a multitude, we still don't see Him. Not yet. That's where faith
> comes in.

If there were evidence for god, there would be no need of faith -
regardless of whether or not you can see him.

You can't see air, or bacteria, or radio waves - but we know they exist
because of the overwhelming evidence. There is no need for "faith"
about such things.

If there were the type of evidence for a god, as you claim there is,
then there would be no need of faith - we would know there is a god in
the same way that we know there is air, bacteria and radio waves. But
that would undermine the whole principle of faith, and "blessed are
those who have not seen and yet believe".

Ergo, if there is any evidence for a god of some sort, it is limited and
unconvincing.

As the sausage eater says, you can't have it both ways.

>
> God revealed in the Bible many things: creation, sin, history, guidance,
> truth, what's coming in the future, etc. We read about it. It's confirmed
> here in the world through observation, and even more so now that we are
> beginning to understand genetics.
>

You start with two assumptions:

1. Everything written in the Bible is literally true.
(We will put aside for the moment questions such as which Bible, which
sources, which translation, and more importantly, whose human
interpretations.)

2. Everything that contradicts assumption 1 is the product of Satan
and/or sin.


/All/ your claims of evidence build on those two assumptions. This is
circular reasoning. You take it on faith that these two assumptions
hold. That's fair enough - that's the sort of "leap of faith" that
defines religious beliefs. But you can't expect anyone who does not
hold the same assumptions to accept your claims of evidence - because
those claims rest on the assumptions.

When someone discovers a fascinating new piece of information - a
fossil, a mathematical pattern, some new biological system, etc., you
have new "evidence" about how the world works. With your way of
thinking, step one is to see if this new evidence contradicts assumption
1 above. If you can claim (no matter how contorted the reasoning) that
there is no contradiction with the Bible, you then proclaim that you
have "evidence that the Bible is true". If not, then you automatically
have "evidence that Satan is misleading us".

But clearly, that is not evidence in any other sense. To look at it
objectively, scientists will ask how it fits with existing theories and
other evidence. If it contradicts existing theories, and the new
evidence is strong enough (it must be repeatable and observed by more
than one independent group), then the search starts for new theories and
explanations. Scientists look for answers to fit the questions, not for
ways to make the questions fit the existing answers.

[David Brown]

Poe's law: "Without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies
of extreme views will be mistaken by some readers or viewers as sincere
expressions of the parodied views."

Basically, it is impossible for us to tell for sure if he is sincere or
parodying religious fanatics here.

Unfortunately, however, I think he /is/ sincere.

[David Brown]

No, the type which will be the fastest on your target while guaranteeing
at least 32 bits is "int_fast32_t". That is /precisely/ what that type
says. On a great many modern systems, "int_fast32_t" is a typedef of
"int", but it may not be.

For many types of programming, you can of course assume "int" is at
least 32 bits - anything on *nix, Posix, Windows (hopefully we've
repressed all memories of 16-bit Windows by now), etc.

So for many purposes, "int" is perfectly good (and just as fast as
"int_fast32_t", and just as safe/unsafe, since it is often the same
type). But if you want to be careful and about what you are saying,
and/or write highly portable code, then "int" is roughly the same as
"int_fast16_t", not "int_fast32_t". "Long int" is needed to guarantee
32 bits, and that certainly does not have to be the fastest such type.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 6:42:52 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 05/08/16 05:06, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 10:05:02 PM UTC-4, Real Troll wrote:
> >> So is there any need to use int in modern programming?
> >
> > Int is typically optimized to be the fastest type for the machine's
> > native word size. In most cases this equates naturally to a 32-bit
> > value, or 64-bit value even if the standard says it can be less. As
> > such, the substitute explicit-sized types could be used, but if you
> > are writing portable code designed for speed, and you know the machine
> > size targets will be at least 32-bits, for example, then using int
> > will be the fastest on the target hardware, while guaranteeing at
> > least 32-bits of data storage for the type (as per your knowledge of
> > the machine targets for the app).
>
> No, the type which will be the fastest on your target while guaranteeing
> at least 32 bits is "int_fast32_t". That is /precisely/ what that type
> says. On a great many modern systems, "int_fast32_t" is a typedef of
> "int", but it may not be.

It's easily explained ... I did not know int_fast32_t existed.

Are there any cases where int and int_fast32_t do not resolve to the
same size type on a compiler designed for 32-bit hardware?

[David Brown]

I believe there are a few systems where "int" is 64-bit, in which case
int_fast32_t may be "short". And I know of a 32-bit processor where 16
bit data could be noticeably faster (a 32-bit 68k device with no caches
and an external 16-bit data bus - reading or writing 32-bit values took
several cycles more than accessing 16-bit values). The compiler I used
there had 32-bit "int", but could conceivably have used 16-bit int.

But I think on just about any reasonable and fairly modern 32-bit
device, int_fast32_t and int will resolve to the same 32-bit hardware type.

However, they may not resolve to the same /logical/ type. On most
32-bit devices, "long" will also resolve to the same 32-bit hardware
type (and also on 64-bit Windows longs are 32-bit, because the Win64 ABI
is a bit silly). There is no reason to suppose that "int_fast32_t" (and
int_least32_t and int32_t) will resolve to "int" rather than "long".
Indeed, on 32-bit ARM gcc these resolve to "long".

For the most part, it doesn't make a big difference - but if you try to
mix pointers to int with pointers to long (or int32_t, or whatever),
then even though the hardware implementation is the same, they are
logically incompatible types in C. You would be able to assign an
int32_t* to a long*, but not to an int*, and a compiler could assume
that an int* and an int32_t* cannot alias. This is, of course, no
different than the normal rules about int* and long* compatibilities -
but it could be worth noting.

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 7:44:37 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> [My wife is] still a non-believer to this day,
> and I have no affection, no companionship, no close confidant in my wife,
> yet we remain married because of my son (born in 2004).
>

Rick,

Nobody on this newsgroup wishes you harm. But none of us are qualified to tell
you what you have to do. That you have to learn for yourself. It sounds like
you realize that something is wrong with your life, it's a start.

When you say that you have no companionship from your wife, have you thought
about it from your wife's point of view? That the man she thought she had
married, that he isn't there anymore? Have you thought about her being
deprived of attention and affection? Do you practice the Mosaic law,
“whatever is hurtful to you, do not do to any other person”, when it comes to
your family? These are just questions, they do not require answers,
particularly not here.

My suggestion would be to focus more on fixing things with your wife, your family, and focus less on your own needs. Focus on what you have to give,
not on what you think you need.

And with that, I'll drop off this conversation :-)

Best regards,
Daniel

[Scott Lurndal]

Real Troll <real....@trolls.com> writes:
>On 04/08/2016 21:16, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> Avoid 'int' as it is non-portable/unsafe. Use the sized integer
>> typedefs from <cstdint> instead, e.g. int_fast32_t:
>>
>> int_fast32_t square(int_fast32_t num)
>> {
>> return num * num; /* Does not check for overflow */
>> }
>So is there any need to use int in modern programming?

Sure - there are a number of POSIX interfaces that have either
int parameters or int return values.