"JetBrains CLion C++ IDE First Impressions"

[Lynn McGuire]

"JetBrains CLion C++ IDE First Impressions"
http://cpprocks.com/jetbrains-clion-c-ide-first-impressions/

Nice! The only real problem that I see is that you
have to be running a windowing system. I do not run
a windowing system on my FreeBSD web server so I
cannot use it.

Lynn

[Ian Collins]

Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "JetBrains CLion C++ IDE First Impressions"
> http://cpprocks.com/jetbrains-clion-c-ide-first-impressions/
>
> Nice! The only real problem that I see is that you
> have to be running a windowing system.

Are there any IDEs (if you exclude emacs) that don't require a windowing
system?

--
Ian Collins

[Jorgen Grahn]

On Wed, 2014-09-10, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Ian Collins <ian-...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>Are there any IDEs (if you exclude emacs) that don't require a windowing
>>system?
>

> The Unix command line is the ultimate IDE IMHO.
> You get: man pages, ctags, valgrind, ... you name it.

And it's easily extendable and programmable ...

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

[Stuart]

On 09/11/14, Ian Collins wrote:
[snip]

> Are there any IDEs (if you exclude emacs) that don't require a windowing
> system?

I once read the following comment, but I cannot find the original source
(http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EmacsAsOperatingSystem comes close, but it was a
different site).

<<Emacs is not a text editor. It has so many features that the closest
you can call it is an operating system. Sadly, it is not a "real" OS
because it lacks a simple and usable text editor ... >>

SCNR,
Stuart

[SG]

On Thursday, September 11, 2014 1:50:26 PM UTC+2, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed, 2014-09-10, Stefan Ram wrote:
> > The Unix command line is the ultimate IDE IMHO.
> > You get: man pages, ctags, valgrind, ... you name it.
>
> And it's easily extendable and programmable ...

The problem is that one needs to be aware of all the tools, plugins
and how to set them up to work together nicely. I'm sure this could
be as convenient (or even more convenient) as popular IDEs. But it
probably takes more time to learn compared to a single, well-
integrated application.

But maybe it's just me not having come across a nice article
explaining how to setup editor X, compiler Y, debugger Z and
accompanioning tools/plugins for language L.

Cheers!
sg

[Sam]

emacs, of course.

[Koneko]

Ian Collins wrote:
> Are there any IDEs (if you exclude emacs) that don't require a windowing
> system?
>

♪ Vim! Vim! Vim! Is a win for you. ♪♪

Install Vundle and go crazy. lol

https://github.com/gmarik/Vundle.vim


--
Koneko

[Jorgen Grahn]

On Thu, 2014-09-11, SG wrote:
> On Thursday, September 11, 2014 1:50:26 PM UTC+2, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Wed, 2014-09-10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>> > The Unix command line is the ultimate IDE IMHO.
>> > You get: man pages, ctags, valgrind, ... you name it.
>>
>> And it's easily extendable and programmable ...
>
> The problem is that one needs to be aware of all the tools, plugins
> and how to set them up to work together nicely. I'm sure this could
> be as convenient (or even more convenient) as popular IDEs. But it
> probably takes more time to learn compared to a single, well-
> integrated application.

I feel the same way about "proper" IDEs like Eclipse (or whatever it's
called when it's used for C++ programming).

I've used Unix for all of my work (programming in different languages,
and anything else that requires a computer) since 1996 or so. You
can't help learning the tools over the years (although you will almost
certainly miss some of them).

> But maybe it's just me not having come across a nice article
> explaining how to setup editor X, compiler Y, debugger Z and
> accompanioning tools/plugins for language L.

You normally don't have to invest in that many new tools for a new
language. Same editor, same build system, same version control.

True, teaching people to use Unix could be done much better (unless
there are good books that I'm unaware of).

[Lynn McGuire]

Wasn't there a version of Turbo C++ that ran on
DOS?

Of course, there was a version of Turbo C for
DOS. I used it and Turbo Pascal religiously.

Lynn

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Programmer's Workbench was an integrated text-based IDE in the early/mid 90s. MS C compiler 6.0, 6.1 I believe, and CodeView 4.0, 4.1.

I miss the debugger speed of CodeView 3.x.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Jorgen Grahn <grahn...@snipabacken.se> spake the secret code
<slrnm153p1.1...@frailea.sa.invalid> thusly:

>On Thu, 2014-09-11, SG wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 11, 2014 1:50:26 PM UTC+2, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2014-09-10, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>> > The Unix command line is the ultimate IDE IMHO.
>>> > You get: man pages, ctags, valgrind, ... you name it.
>>>
>>> And it's easily extendable and programmable ...
>>
>> The problem is that one needs to be aware of all the tools, plugins
>> and how to set them up to work together nicely. I'm sure this could
>> be as convenient (or even more convenient) as popular IDEs. But it
>> probably takes more time to learn compared to a single, well-
>> integrated application.
>
>I feel the same way about "proper" IDEs like Eclipse (or whatever it's
>called when it's used for C++ programming).

I resisted IDEs until I got a job at a Windows shop around 1998 and they
were using VC6. At first, I had emacs installed on my Windows box and
I would do most editing in emacs. A little while in, I had learned
the VC6 IDE. Once I learned the keyboard shortcuts for manipulating
the IDE, I found it was a productivity boost. Frankly, this surprised
me. I was (and am) a command-line afficionado and I was well versed
in the standard unix command-line toolset. I still use sed and awk
regularly when it's appropriate. However, I kept an open mind about
IDEs and I was willing to give it a try. I suggest that you do too.

Currently, my preferred environment for developing C++ code is Visual
Studio with Visual AssistX added on. I'm becoming a fan of CMake for
it's ability to give me a platform portable build yet still let me use
the IDE of my choice, so I only gain, not lose, productivity.
(Maintaining one CMake based build is IMO better than maintaining
parallel Makefiles and VS projects.)

The release of CLion and ReSharper for C++ are the most exciting
things to happen lately in the world of C++, IMO. ReSharper for C# is
the one add-on that no C# programmer can live without and IntelliJ is
the one IDE that makes writing Java tolerable (IMO). Both are
JetBrains products and it is truly exciting to see them releasing
products for C++.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It uses GCC and GDB. It seemed to be a nice
IDE with excellent integrated error and warning
messages, but GDB provides slower and limited
debugging compared to Visual Studio's IDE
and debugger. And NetBeans with a C++ plugin
seems to provide nearly identical abilities and
is free. So does/is CodeLite.

What am I missing?

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<6c174ce7-8f71-4814...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

>And NetBeans with a C++ plugin
>seems to provide nearly identical abilities and
>is free. So does/is CodeLite.

What sort of refactoring/quick fix features does NetBeans provide? I
didn't see much when I browsed their web site.

I hadn't looked at CodeLite before, but I see it offers some
refactorings, so I will add it to my list of refactoring tools to test
against my refactoring tool test suite.
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/c-refactoring-tools-test-suite-available/>

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 11:17:00 AM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <6c174ce7-8f71-4814...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
> >And NetBeans with a C++ plugin
> >seems to provide nearly identical abilities and
> >is free. So does/is CodeLite.
>
> What sort of refactoring/quick fix features does NetBeans provide? I
> didn't see much when I browsed their web site.

As I recall, it was complete. In fact, it was the best refactoring I've
seen (at least when I used Java). And on C/C++, not only will it refactor,
but it will reformat bad code. There are a host of settings which allow
you to load in someone else's code and have it automatically refactored
into ANSI-C standard, GNU standard, several more, and also custom.

It's been a couple years since I've used it. And I would say its GDB
integration was the weakest component ... but that's been my experience
in every IDE that uses GCC and GDB.

> I hadn't looked at CodeLite before, but I see it offers some
> refactorings, so I will add it to my list of refactoring tools to test
> against my refactoring tool test suite.
>
> <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/c-refactoring-tools-test-suite-available/>

CodeLite has undergone a lot of revision over the years. It is a nice
C/C++ IDE across multiple OSes. The author maintains the code for use
on a Mac though, so Windows and Linux are often second class citizens.
:-) It natively knows and will compile with tools outside of GCC,
though I believe it always uses GDB for debugging.

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code

<211c7558-6160-4496...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

>On Monday, September 22, 2014 11:17:00 AM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
>> <6c174ce7-8f71-4814...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>> >And NetBeans with a C++ plugin
>> >seems to provide nearly identical abilities and
>> >is free. So does/is CodeLite.
>>
>> What sort of refactoring/quick fix features does NetBeans provide? I
>> didn't see much when I browsed their web site.
>
>As I recall, it was complete.

That would surprise me, since I have yet to find any C/C++ refactoring
tool that was "complete" when it came to rename. Clang-based tools
might be able to get there.

I could only find this plugin for netbeans, which is marked experimental:
<http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/4024/c-c-experimental-refactoring>

It hasn't been updated since 2007, so I am doubtful it is either
complete or keeping up with the changes in the C++ standard.

>CodeLite has undergone a lot of revision over the years. It is a nice
>C/C++ IDE across multiple OSes. The author maintains the code for use
>on a Mac though, so Windows and Linux are often second class citizens.
>:-) It natively knows and will compile with tools outside of GCC,
>though I believe it always uses GDB for debugging.

Meh. Using gcc/gdb on Windows is a step down from VS, IMO.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 12:19:33 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code

> <211c7558-6160-4496...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

> >As I recall, it was complete.
>
> That would surprise me, since I have yet to find any C/C++ refactoring
> tool that was "complete" when it came to rename. Clang-based tools
> might be able to get there.

By complete I meant it could refactor every named symbol. I didn't
exhaustively try them all, but I'm pretty sure I tried several. I
had come from a Java background on NetBeans and as I recall more or
less the same refactoring abilities were there in C/C++.

> I could only find this plugin for netbeans, which is marked experimental:
> <http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/4024/c-c-experimental-refactoring>
>
> It hasn't been updated since 2007, so I am doubtful it is either
> complete or keeping up with the changes in the C++ standard.

I doubt it handled everything with the C or C++ standard, but so far
as refactoring I recall it handling variable name changes, function
name changes, and even doing some basic things like creating function
templates from those defined in the .h but not yet coded in the cpp.

I may be thinking of another toolset though. You've got me wondering now.

> >CodeLite has undergone a lot of revision over the years. It is a nice
> >C/C++ IDE across multiple OSes. The author maintains the code for use
> >on a Mac though, so Windows and Linux are often second class citizens.

> >It natively knows and will compile with tools outside of GCC,
> >though I believe it always uses GDB for debugging.
>
> Meh. Using gcc/gdb on Windows is a step down from VS, IMO.

Agreed completely. In fact, I will often take GCC code to a Windows
environment, spend the time modifying it to work with Visual Studio's
compiler, develop the app or algorithm, then port back to GCC just so
I can avoid having to use GDB, and more specifically, so I can get
Microsoft's Debugger with edit-and-continue.

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code

<39b40466-f456-4b16...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

>On Monday, September 22, 2014 12:19:33 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
>> <211c7558-6160-4496...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>> >As I recall, it was complete.
>>
>> That would surprise me, since I have yet to find any C/C++ refactoring
>> tool that was "complete" when it came to rename. Clang-based tools
>> might be able to get there.
>
>By complete I meant it could refactor every named symbol.

Right, I agree with this definition of completeness for Rename.
However, I've created over 100 test cases for renaming symbols in C++
and have yet to find any refactoring tool that can get anywhere close
to complete.

I will put it on my list of tools to evaluate.

>I didn't
>exhaustively try them all, but I'm pretty sure I tried several. I
>had come from a Java background on NetBeans and as I recall more or
>less the same refactoring abilities were there in C/C++.

Refactoring correctly for C++ is significantly harder than for Java or
.NET languages.

>and even doing some basic things like creating function
>templates from those defined in the .h but not yet coded in the cpp.

While these sorts of things are great, they aren't refactorings. This
may seem nitpicky, but it's important to be clear about what is code
generation/assistance and what is refactoring.

>> Meh. Using gcc/gdb on Windows is a step down from VS, IMO.
>
>Agreed completely. In fact, I will often take GCC code to a Windows
>environment, spend the time modifying it to work with Visual Studio's
>compiler, develop the app or algorithm, then port back to GCC just so
>I can avoid having to use GDB, and more specifically, so I can get
>Microsoft's Debugger with edit-and-continue.

I generally recommend compiling your code on multiple compilers just
to avoid writing stuff that is VC/gcc/clang specific by accident. You
often get different strengths in the analysis of your code from
different toolchains, so it helps you fix little things before they
turn into big things.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 1:47:32 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code

> <39b40466-f456-4b16...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

> >and even doing some basic things like creating function
> >templates from those defined in the .h but not yet coded in the cpp.
>
> While these sorts of things are great, they aren't refactorings. This
> may seem nitpicky, but it's important to be clear about what is code
> generation/assistance and what is refactoring.

I wasn't suggesting those were refactoring. I was suggesting that the
tool I remember using was mature enough to do those sorts of things
in addition to refactoring.

> I generally recommend compiling your code on multiple compilers just
> to avoid writing stuff that is VC/gcc/clang specific by accident. You
> often get different strengths in the analysis of your code from
> different toolchains, so it helps you fix little things before they
> turn into big things.

Agree. I currently develop primarily in Visual Studio 2008 or 98, and
compile my code often in Visual Studio 98, 2003, 2008, as well as GCC
4.8.1 or later.

GCC has proven a wonderful tool for finding very odd things in my code
that Visual Studio never even mentioned. GCC does have bugs, however,
and reports false positives on a handful of things.

I've never used clang and probably won't (because it's an Apple product
and has as its logo some kind of flying demon LOL -- same reason I
won't use python or a handful of others).

I am currently developing my own C compiler called RDC, and IDE called
JDebi in its current form, and ultimately Debi in its final form. I plan
to switch completely over to that once it is mature. I do not intend
to use any Microsoft, GNU, or other product thereafter except for those
which I haven't also yet written a replacement for.

[Scott Lurndal]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, September 22, 2014 1:47:32 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:

>I've never used clang and probably won't (because it's an Apple product
>and has as its logo some kind of flying demon LOL -- same reason I
>won't use python or a handful of others).

As for the first reason, LLVM is not an apple product, just a product
that apple uses (and contributes to).

As for the second reason, Huh?

[Melzzzzz]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I've never used clang and probably won't (because it's an Apple
> product and has as its logo some kind of flying demon LOL -- same
> reason I won't use python or a handful of others).

What about FreeBSD, Darwin and (OS X which is derived from them);)?

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code

<9dfd1c83-5dfc-43db...@googlegroups.com> thusly:

>I've never used clang and probably won't (because it's an Apple product

As others have mentioned, clang isn't an Apple product. It's open
source and Apple is a contributor, so is google, so are any number of
people/companies. Apple has chosen to use clang as it's primary
compiler in Xcode, but prior to that they used gcc.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

According to Wikipedia, clang was developed by Apple to be a drop-in
replacement for GCC. It uses LLVM as a back-end, and other companies
also contribute to it, but it is Apple's product.

> As for the second reason, Huh?

It relates to me being a Christian and that there are certain projects
I will not be a part of because of the spirit which operates at their
core. It's why I'm going the very very very hard way of creating LibSF
and writing all of my own code from the ground up. I want a foundation
that centers purposefully and solely around Jesus Christ in my life.

Flying demons? Snakes? Not for me. :-)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I have slated to support FreeBSD in my Visual FreePro project, but I
have not done so yet. Since I made that announcement in early 2012,
I have since seen their demon/daemon logo as well and may also
withdrawal support. I have not yet decided because I have not
researched anything about FreeBSD.

The primary reason I was supporting FreeBSD was because it was an
alternative to both Linux and GNU. Linux had Linus Torvalds giving
talks in front of large groups, and giving corporations the finger
and using curse words. GNU has Richard Stallman at the top, a man
with some very perverse thoughts about what is and is not acceptable
behavior for people.

Whereas I have not officially decided about FreeBSD, I have looked
at it superficially a handful of times and will most likely drop
support for it. I may not though, it is a particular kind of open
source project that has isolated and specific roots. I will have
to look into it more and then decide.

Darwin and OS X ... no. I have not used any Apple products since the
early 90s, and even then it was an old Macintosh which I never used,
but someone gave me and I had it for a few years. Prior to that it was
Apple ][e in middle- and high-school. I've never owned any iPods,
iPads, iPhones, Macs, or anything else. I had an iTunes account for
a few years because I wanted to pay for songs legally rather than
download them for free, but I have not used it since other sources
became available (mostly Amazon.com's digital music sales).

Apple uses a fruit with the bite out of it. Originally it was a rainbow
color -- the symbol God put in the sky after the flood promising that He
would never again destroy the Earth with water.

The symbols Apple usea and uses relate to how this whole mess we live
in got started (sin).

[Melzzzzz]

clang is Apple product...

>
> As for the second reason, Huh?

Guy believes in talking snakes and flying zombie humans...

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 3:09:11 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <9dfd1c83-5dfc-43db...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
> >I've never used clang and probably won't (because it's an Apple product
>
> As others have mentioned, clang isn't an Apple product. It's open
> source and Apple is a contributor, so is google, so are any number of
> people/companies. Apple has chosen to use clang as it's primary
> compiler in Xcode, but prior to that they used gcc.

As I understand it, clang was written by Apple. The original author
works at Apple. Other companies now support it as well, but it is
used by Apple.

I have avoided it for those reasons. I avoid all things Apple for
the same reason -- they are a huge corporation, nearly $700 billion
in market capitalization at their peak, and there is a real enemy
in this world operating against the people. That enemy's name is
Satan. He does not operate in hidden ways, but in the open, and at
every place where there is an opportunity for power or corruption
he will snake his way into the hearts and minds of those involved,
using their desire for whatever personally satiating thing they'll
be swayed by, against them to carry out his agenda.

It's why the world is in the shape it is. People puruse something
false and harmful rather than what's right -- because pursuing what's
right is much more difficult because this real enemy rises up against
all such right and true efforts to make them as difficult as possible.
Look at my Visual FreePro project. Not a single developer has come
on board to help me since July 12, 2012. It's not for a lack of
asking or advertising. It is because I place Jesus Christ out in
front of my work, being the very reason why I am doing what I am doing.

I've had people tell me point blank that if I were to monetize my
project, and figure out a way to make money off of it, they would
come on board and help me.

Satan uses those very drives and desires, placing opportunities in
front of those who will do what he wants them to do, so that his
plans are carried out through men.

It is a difficult walk being a Christian. It comes with a cost.
The main one is constant ridicule by those who are not born again
believers. The other is that the enemy takes everything you try
to do in your life and use it against you. Even your best
intentions are twisted into something which causes harm.

Satan is shrewd and uber intelligent. He was so silver tongued
that he convinced a full one-third of the angels to leave their
place in Heaven and follow him. These are what are now called
demons.

But all of them have been judged. Every last one. And all of them
will be cast forever into the eternal fires of Hell. And all men
who pursue sin and wrongness will be cast in as well. It is why I
pursue God with my life. He saved me from that end, and I owe Him
everything. It is a very difficult walk, but the final payoff is
out of this world.

[David Brown]

On 22/09/14 21:23, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> Whereas I have not officially decided about FreeBSD, I have looked
> at it superficially a handful of times and will most likely drop
> support for it. I may not though, it is a particular kind of open
> source project that has isolated and specific roots. I will have
> to look into it more and then decide.
>

You can't have looked very hard at FreeBSD - have you seen their logo?

[David Brown]

LLVM is not an apple product, but clang was - Apple started it, and have
been major contributors ever since. But it's all open source, with lots
of other groups, companies and individuals working on both the LLVM
backend and the clang front-end.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

When I first announced I would support it I had not looked at their logo.
In fact, I didn't look at their logo for several months. Then one day I
did and was taken aback. I looked up the history of the logo and it is
named "Beastie" a play on words of "BSD". But I also look at the history
of what the project was created to be/do.

I'll have to look into the intentions of the original authors, who they
were, what their purpose was in creating it, etc. I look at that under-
lying spirit, and not the outward appearance. At least I try to do this.
I have learned there are some spirits which are capable of deceiving me.
They are typically the very hard addiction spirits (heroine, crystal
meth, other similar hard drugs). I don't know why it is that I get no
discernment from those spirits. I get discernment from others, however.

We'll see though. It will require some emails, some communication, etc.
I did the same thing with Richard Stallman and then went on this very
difficult journey of creating LibSF as an alternative to the FSF because
of the spirit operating within him. Very frightening.

[Melzzzzz]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:32:34 -0700 (PDT)

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, September 22, 2014 3:09:11 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
> > "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> > <9dfd1c83-5dfc-43db...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
> > >I've never used clang and probably won't (because it's an Apple
> > >product
> >
> > As others have mentioned, clang isn't an Apple product. It's open
> > source and Apple is a contributor, so is google, so are any number
> > of people/companies. Apple has chosen to use clang as it's primary
> > compiler in Xcode, but prior to that they used gcc.
>
> As I understand it, clang was written by Apple. The original author
> works at Apple. Other companies now support it as well, but it is
> used by Apple.
>
> I have avoided it for those reasons. I avoid all things Apple for
> the same reason -- they are a huge corporation, nearly $700 billion
> in market capitalization at their peak, and there is a real enemy
> in this world operating against the people. That enemy's name is
> Satan. He does not operate in hidden ways, but in the open, and at
> every place where there is an opportunity for power or corruption
> he will snake his way into the hearts and minds of those involved,
> using their desire for whatever personally satiating thing they'll
> be swayed by, against them to carry out his agenda.
>

Well, what is the difference between Microsoft and Apple?
You support Microsoft, but not Apple. Why?

I can recommend you Ubuntu christian edition
and Linux for Christians site ;)

http://ubuntuce.com/
http://www.linuxforchristians.org/

[Rick C. Hodgin]

There are two parts to that answer:

(1) I grew up on IBM and Microsoft from my earliest PC days.
(2) I do not support Microsoft.

Microsoft has been evil from the get-go. They were convicted of several
anti-trust violations by various countries around the world. They are
a patently evil company. In the mid-1990s I started working on my own
operating system I originally called q/Operating System, but I changed
the name in/around 1998 to Exodus Operating System, as I hoped it would
be a mass departure from evil (Microsoft).

I continued to use the tools I already had, an early 1990s version of
their C compiler, and Macro Assembler 6.11d, along with CodeLite versions
3.x and 4.x. I used MS-DOS 6.22 I believe up until I was forced to buy
a new machine, which then came with Windows 95, though I would boot into
DOS.

In any event... I made steady progress on my OS, but I never got it to
the point where it was ready to be used as an alternative. It was
close, but I was again (back then) hampered by the time I had to have
a full-time job ... plus, writing an OS is exceedingly tedious work.
All I had were the IA-32 developer manuals and a regular PC with a
floppy drive. I would code on C:\EXODUS\SOURCE\ and then use a disk
writer I wrote to write my file system structure to the floppy, hit
reset and try it out. Very slow to make corrections and test.

But, regardless. I had begun my career in XBASE with FoxBASE back
in 1987. I stuck with Fox Software until Microsoft bought them and
released FoxPro for Windows 2.x, and then Visual FoxPro 3.0. I did
not use any of those products and stick with Multi-User FoxBASE+ 2.1
up until the late 90s.

Through a host of events that I even at the time thought were very
unexpected and spoke very strongly of a God-like presence watching
over me (I would not become a Christian until 2004, but I honestly
at that time wondered why some of the things which were happening
to me were happening to me), I wound up taking a job where I was
coding in Visual FoxPro 3.0, and was given Visual Studio 98. I
began to learn those tools and proceeded from there.

At various times while I was working at that job I could feel again
God's presence, as though He was there with me watching over me as
I was coding. I did not recognize Him as God, and at that time I
was a devout, professed atheist who would argue with anybody over
"the false existence of God," but there was still this inner thing
that I could not in any way deny. That same feeling happened in
about 12 isolated incidents over the several years I worked there.
Each time it was distinct, singular, and I had no question in my
soul what it was... it was this same thing that had happened in my
life about the time I got the job.

During my time there I became a Christian around July 31, 2004.
And my life has been forever altered since then.

I had abandoned work on my OS in 2002 when my wife told me in very
clear terms (paraphrased), "Choose, Rick. It's either the OS, or me,"
because development on the OS was every waking hour for years. She
knew this when we got married, but after we were married in Nov.2001,
it was no longer tolerated. :-) In any event, I chose her and we
were happy for a few years until I accepted Christ, and then many
things in my life began to be turned upside down. My wife tried at
first to support me, but she told me later she felt like I died that
day I told her I was a Christian, and she was right ... literally.

In any event, through many bad things which took me through until about
2011 we struggled. We never got a divorce, but it was painful for both
of us, and our son (now 10 years old). It's been awful. Only in the
past couple of years has she been able to tolerate being in the same
room with me for any length of time. And only in the past several
months has she actually begun to ask questions about Jesus, about faith,
and she's commented on seeing the value in believing. The fiery spirit
that used to accompany her speech has been replaced with a soft, seeking
spirit, and it has been pleasant.

Still... other areas of my life have been severely hurt because of it.
My house needs repairs. My health has not been good. Every time I've
tried to go and do house repairs I wind up being sick for a week or so.
It's been very hard.

So ... as my wife began to tolerate being in the same room with me again,
and I wasn't under that kind of constant spiritual pressure, I resolved
in my mind in July, 2012 that I would again focus my life on some endeavor
to help others. I contacted Richard Stallman and decided I would work to
complete the HURD kernel for GNU. He replied and said that he didn't
really think that was needed because Linux is so well developed, tested.
He suggested I work on their Adobe Flash replacement, called Gnash. In
considering this for a few days I did some research on GNU, and on Richard,
and came across some quotes from the mid-2000s whereby he said that
necrophilia and pedophilia should be legal, citing that it doesn't really
hurt the deceased, or the children, but that it's more of a societal
stigma. I contacted him via email to ask him about the quotes. He said
they were accurate. I asked him if he still felt that way. He said yes.
I witnessed to him about Jesus Christ and that there is a proper way we
are to live in this world. He told me that we didn't need religion, and
so on, and I resolved then I would depart.

I have spent every waking hour I'm able to do so since that time working
on constructing the framework for my Visual FreePro Virtual Machine (VVM),
and a compiler capable of writing code for the underlying x86 or ARM CPU,
as well as for the VVM's own opcodes. I have worked to author the
libraries that are required to make it all happen. I have evangelized
both about Jesus Christ and about my project since then, and I have found
no one to come on board and help. I contacted two Christian universities
in Indiana asking them for support. They also turned me down. It's been
an unending series of walls.

I finally gave up on trying to get the full version of Visual FreePro
completed in Jun.2014, and have been working on Visual FreePro, Jr. ever
since. I have been doing this because I told people back in July, 2012
that I would have Visual FreePro for them. About 20 have stuck by me
and I have not produced a product during that time due to the complexity
of writing it all, and writing it on top of, at that time, having a job
which required about 60 hours, which today requires about 50 hours, per
week.

Visual FreePro is getting close to having a working IDE, and its
integrated compiler is framed. It is a much simpler compiler that will
only support code generated for the Visual FreePro XBASE langauge,
called VXB. However, it is the closest I've come.

Once completed, I'm hoping it will spurn other developers to come on
board and help me with my full Visual FreePro project, which includes
the RDC compiler framework, and RDC programming language, in addition
to the full XBASE language version called VXB++.

It's a lot of work, and it's been now 802 days today that I've been
working on these projects. I've met with no end of ridicule, even
hate speak. People have made fun of every tiny mistake I've made.
I've had people claim that it will never be completed. That I'm
wasting my time. And much more. Yet nobody has come on board to
help out so that such is not my fated end, for I know that in working
together, especially when purposed and focused upon Jesus Christ,
man can accomplish anything. That's even a Bible verse. :-)

In any event, I have supported Microsoft products because I have had
to have some tools to develop in until I get my tools completed. I
have a background with Microsoft products, but I will not use anything
newer than the Visual Studio 2008 version I have, a version given to
me by Microsoft, by the way, back in 2009 when I was writing articles
for Geek.com. They gave me a full licensed version to evaluate, and
that is the version I am using today. The version of Visual Studio
2003 I have I purchased back in 2005 I think. And the version of
Visual Studio 98 I use I just purchased less than a month ago.

Once I get my RDC compiler completed, I will never again use a
Microsoft product, except in that I will need to test my own product's
operating on Windows because I plan to support Windows.

After I get Visual FreePro completed, then I turn back to my own OS,
Exodus. After Exodus is completed I will port it to ARM for a version
called Armodus. After Armodus is completed I will return to Exodus and
complete an Exodus-64 version. And finally I'll return to Armodus and
complete an Armodus-64 version.

Once I get these base RDC tools developed, and I have a working C language,
full debugger, full IDE, and one that will work on several platforms (I
had originally planned for Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, and Android), then all
I do from that point forward will be focused upon my own products, which
are all focused upon my faith in Jesus Christ as their center/core.

Hope that makes sense. :-)

> I can recommend you Ubuntu christian edition
> and Linux for Christians site ;)

I tried that. I use Linux Mint currently. I have found Ubuntu to
be to "hip" or "chic" for my tastes. I use the MATE GUI and am so
very happy in so doing.

I used Trisquel for a long time (all binary blobs removed), but
the authors don't maintain it very well. It's lagged behind.

[Paavo Helde]

Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> wrote in news:20140922214858.695665b2@maxa-pc:

> Well, what is the difference between Microsoft and Apple?
> You support Microsoft, but not Apple. Why?

Isn't this clear? Both Mac OS X and Linux have hords of daemons and
zombies, all lurking in the background.

It's only Windows which has heavenly blue screens!

Cheers
Paavo

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 4:25:48 PM UTC-4, Paavo Helde wrote:
> It's only Windows which has heavenly blue screens!

LOL :-)

[Melzzzzz]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:23:14 -0700 (PDT)

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, September 22, 2014 3:49:11 PM UTC-4, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:32:34 -0700 (PDT)
> > "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, what is the difference between Microsoft and Apple?
> > You support Microsoft, but not Apple. Why?
>
> There are two parts to that answer:
>
> (1) I grew up on IBM and Microsoft from my earliest PC days.
> (2) I do not support Microsoft.
>

....

> Through a host of events that I even at the time thought were very
> unexpected and spoke very strongly of a God-like presence watching
> over me (I would not become a Christian until 2004, but I honestly
> at that time wondered why some of the things which were happening
> to me were happening to me), I wound up taking a job where I was
> coding in Visual FoxPro 3.0, and was given Visual Studio 98. I
> began to learn those tools and proceeded from there.
>
> At various times while I was working at that job I could feel again
> God's presence, as though He was there with me watching over me as
> I was coding. I did not recognize Him as God, and at that time I
> was a devout, professed atheist who would argue with anybody over
> "the false existence of God," but there was still this inner thing
> that I could not in any way deny.

I have this inner thing too, but I became atheist in 2010.
I was Christian until then. I believe in supernatural but
not in Bible.

That same feeling happened in
> about 12 isolated incidents over the several years I worked there.
> Each time it was distinct, singular, and I had no question in my
> soul what it was... it was this same thing that had happened in my
> life about the time I got the job.
>
> During my time there I became a Christian around July 31, 2004.
> And my life has been forever altered since then.

I believe you.

>
> I had abandoned work on my OS in 2002 when my wife told me in very
> clear terms (paraphrased), "Choose, Rick. It's either the OS, or me,"
> because development on the OS was every waking hour for years. She
> knew this when we got married, but after we were married in Nov.2001,
> it was no longer tolerated. :-) In any event, I chose her and we
> were happy for a few years until I accepted Christ, and then many
> things in my life began to be turned upside down. My wife tried at
> first to support me, but she told me later she felt like I died that
> day I told her I was a Christian, and she was right ... literally.

Hm. So after all, your new faith was not that good for you?

>
> In any event, through many bad things which took me through until
> about 2011 we struggled. We never got a divorce, but it was painful
> for both of us, and our son (now 10 years old). It's been awful.
> Only in the past couple of years has she been able to tolerate being
> in the same room with me for any length of time. And only in the
> past several months has she actually begun to ask questions about
> Jesus, about faith, and she's commented on seeing the value in
> believing. The fiery spirit that used to accompany her speech has
> been replaced with a soft, seeking spirit, and it has been pleasant.

Glad to hear that.

>
> Still... other areas of my life have been severely hurt because of it.
> My house needs repairs. My health has not been good. Every time I've
> tried to go and do house repairs I wind up being sick for a week or
> so. It's been very hard.
>
> So ... as my wife began to tolerate being in the same room with me
> again, and I wasn't under that kind of constant spiritual pressure, I
> resolved in my mind in July, 2012 that I would again focus my life on
> some endeavor to help others.

Great ;)

I contacted Richard Stallman and
> decided I would work to complete the HURD kernel for GNU. He replied
> and said that he didn't really think that was needed because Linux is
> so well developed, tested. He suggested I work on their Adobe Flash
> replacement, called Gnash. In considering this for a few days I did
> some research on GNU, and on Richard, and came across some quotes
> from the mid-2000s whereby he said that necrophilia and pedophilia
> should be legal, citing that it doesn't really hurt the deceased, or
> the children, but that it's more of a societal stigma. I contacted
> him via email to ask him about the quotes. He said they were
> accurate. I asked him if he still felt that way. He said yes. I
> witnessed to him about Jesus Christ and that there is a proper way we
> are to live in this world. He told me that we didn't need religion,
> and so on, and I resolved then I would depart.

Aside Stallman, his views are good regarding software but those
things about necro and pedo are questionable at best.

>
> I have spent every waking hour I'm able to do so since that time
> working on constructing the framework for my Visual FreePro Virtual
> Machine (VVM), and a compiler capable of writing code for the
> underlying x86 or ARM CPU, as well as for the VVM's own opcodes. I
> have worked to author the libraries that are required to make it all
> happen. I have evangelized both about Jesus Christ and about my
> project since then, and I have found no one to come on board and
> help. I contacted two Christian universities in Indiana asking them
> for support. They also turned me down. It's been an unending series
> of walls.

Main reason I am now atheist is disappointment in clerics and religious
people generally. That is, I am now agnostic atheist.
..

> Visual FreePro is getting close to having a working IDE, and its
> integrated compiler is framed. It is a much simpler compiler that
> will only support code generated for the Visual FreePro XBASE
> langauge, called VXB. However, it is the closest I've come.

Hm, I extremely rarely use IDE. I am using plain text editor
and compile /interpret with whatever command line build system.
I fall in love with golang as it compiles blazingly fast
and does not need Makefile. Language is awfully inefficient OTOH,
(tools are not mature , yet),but really simple.

>
> Once completed, I'm hoping it will spurn other developers to come on
> board and help me with my full Visual FreePro project, which includes
> the RDC compiler framework, and RDC programming language, in addition
> to the full XBASE language version called VXB++.

Not many developers are interested in "visual" things.

>
> It's a lot of work, and it's been now 802 days today that I've been
> working on these projects. I've met with no end of ridicule, even
> hate speak. People have made fun of every tiny mistake I've made.
> I've had people claim that it will never be completed. That I'm
> wasting my time. And much more. Yet nobody has come on board to
> help out so that such is not my fated end, for I know that in working
> together, especially when purposed and focused upon Jesus Christ,
> man can accomplish anything. That's even a Bible verse. :-)

Well, you do what you know best and what you like, after all it's
your free time ;)

>
> In any event, I have supported Microsoft products because I have had
> to have some tools to develop in until I get my tools completed. I
> have a background with Microsoft products, but I will not use anything
> newer than the Visual Studio 2008 version I have, a version given to
> me by Microsoft, by the way, back in 2009 when I was writing articles
> for Geek.com. They gave me a full licensed version to evaluate, and
> that is the version I am using today. The version of Visual Studio
> 2003 I have I purchased back in 2005 I think. And the version of
> Visual Studio 98 I use I just purchased less than a month ago.

Well, I used visual studio express back in 2005-6 to develop one
project for Windows. And that one project for Windows was
all that I had to do with Windows in last 15 years.

>
> Once I get my RDC compiler completed, I will never again use a
> Microsoft product, except in that I will need to test my own product's
> operating on Windows because I plan to support Windows.
>
> After I get Visual FreePro completed, then I turn back to my own OS,
> Exodus. After Exodus is completed I will port it to ARM for a version
> called Armodus. After Armodus is completed I will return to Exodus
> and complete an Exodus-64 version. And finally I'll return to
> Armodus and complete an Armodus-64 version.
>
> Once I get these base RDC tools developed, and I have a working C
> language, full debugger, full IDE, and one that will work on several
> platforms (I had originally planned for Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, and
> Android), then all I do from that point forward will be focused upon
> my own products, which are all focused upon my faith in Jesus Christ
> as their center/core.
>
> Hope that makes sense. :-)

All, except IDE? Why do you waste time on IDE?
Heh, I am programming in assembler/C++/go ,...
and I don't use IDE/debugger at all ;)

>
> > I can recommend you Ubuntu christian edition
> > and Linux for Christians site ;)
>
> I tried that. I use Linux Mint currently. I have found Ubuntu to
> be to "hip" or "chic" for my tastes. I use the MATE GUI and am so
> very happy in so doing.

Well, MATE is gnome 2 reborn and I simply can't use it anymore,
since gnome3. I now use Manjaro Linux after being faithful
to Ubuntu for 7 years. I simply had to try rolling release
distro and keep my Ubuntu install at LTS, while experimenting
with bleeding edge where it belongs.

>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin

Best regards!

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 5:44:04 PM UTC-4, Melzzzzz wrote:
> Main reason I am now atheist is disappointment in clerics and religious
> people generally. That is, I am now agnostic atheist.

Being a Christian is not in any part about what other professed
religious people do. It is about one thing only: Your personal
relationship with Jesus Christ.

The anti-Christ spirit is everywhere and evil people will persist until
the day of His return. But it is from within that He calls, and it is
from within, and unto Him only, that a Christian walks, the contrary
people of the world are not a factor.

> > Visual FreePro is getting close to having a working IDE, and its
> > integrated compiler is framed. It is a much simpler compiler that
> > will only support code generated for the Visual FreePro XBASE
> > langauge, called VXB. However, it is the closest I've come.
>
> Hm, I extremely rarely use IDE. I am using plain text editor
> and compile /interpret with whatever command line build system.
> I fall in love with golang as it compiles blazingly fast
> and does not need Makefile. Language is awfully inefficient OTOH,
> (tools are not mature , yet),but really simple.

Visual FreePro most likely won't be for you then. :-) The target
audience I have deals mostly with GUI desktop apps. The goal will
also be to move those into GUI mobile apps with little effort.

> > Once completed, I'm hoping it will spurn other developers to come on
> > board and help me with my full Visual FreePro project, which includes
> > the RDC compiler framework, and RDC programming language, in addition
> > to the full XBASE language version called VXB++.
>
> Not many developers are interested in "visual" things.

That has not been my experience. And in the past 5 years where video
cards have gotten into such high-end 3D acceleration on even a very
tight power budget on mobile devices, I don't see that remaining for
long (at least for the types of application targets I'm in pursuit of:
User apps, both desktop, and mobile).

> > Hope that makes sense. :-)
>
> All, except IDE? Why do you waste time on IDE?

I view it as a key component of my overall design -- instant feedback
on your code as you're authoring it, continuous compilation, edit-and-
continue, and a feature called SourceLight, which is kind of like
Intellisense, but does quite a bit more.

> > I tried that. I use Linux Mint currently. I have found Ubuntu to
> > be to "hip" or "chic" for my tastes. I use the MATE GUI and am so
> > very happy in so doing.
>
> Well, MATE is gnome 2 reborn and I simply can't use it anymore,
> since gnome3. I now use Manjaro Linux after being faithful
> to Ubuntu for 7 years. I simply had to try rolling release
> distro and keep my Ubuntu install at LTS, while experimenting
> with bleeding edge where it belongs.

I've tried GNOME3. It's why I stuck with GNOME2 for a time, and
then MATE once GNOME2 was released as some weird compatibility
mode that didn't look like it used to. Mate is very straight-
forward, though I do have periodic problems with icons losing
their position if I move them anywhere from their default left-
side location when you right-click and choose "Add to panel."
That is my biggest annoyance with Linux Mint 17. Another is
that the menu takes a long time to appear when you click on
the "start" button.

In terms of functionality and ease of use, I've been able to upgrade
from Linux Mint 14 through the current version. I was even able to
resize my partition each time to maintain my prior installs as well.
It was very easy. And since I do all of my personal Windows
development in VMs, nothing changed on the update and each one was
completed in about 45 minutes after the various package re-installs
in Synaptic.

My only remaining issue is how to get the hard drives to auto-mount
in the same way they do when I click on them in Caja. If I use the
settings I find online, I get boot errors about failed auto-mounts.

[Melzzzzz]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:00:38 -0700 (PDT)

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, September 22, 2014 5:44:04 PM UTC-4, Melzzzzz wrote:
> > Main reason I am now atheist is disappointment in clerics and
> > religious people generally. That is, I am now agnostic atheist.
>
> Being a Christian is not in any part about what other professed
> religious people do. It is about one thing only: Your personal
> relationship with Jesus Christ.

Problem is that everything you know about Jesus Christ is through
scriptures. And scriptures are written by such people.

>
> The anti-Christ spirit is everywhere and evil people will persist
> until the day of His return. But it is from within that He calls,
> and it is from within, and unto Him only, that a Christian walks, the
> contrary people of the world are not a factor.

There are many Christian Churches/sects and they are not even
similar to each other.

>
> > > I tried that. I use Linux Mint currently. I have found Ubuntu to
> > > be to "hip" or "chic" for my tastes. I use the MATE GUI and am so
> > > very happy in so doing.
> >
> > Well, MATE is gnome 2 reborn and I simply can't use it anymore,
> > since gnome3. I now use Manjaro Linux after being faithful
> > to Ubuntu for 7 years. I simply had to try rolling release
> > distro and keep my Ubuntu install at LTS, while experimenting
> > with bleeding edge where it belongs.
>
> I've tried GNOME3. It's why I stuck with GNOME2 for a time, and
> then MATE once GNOME2 was released as some weird compatibility
> mode that didn't look like it used to. Mate is very straight-
> forward, though I do have periodic problems with icons losing
> their position if I move them anywhere from their default left-
> side location when you right-click and choose "Add to panel."
> That is my biggest annoyance with Linux Mint 17. Another is
> that the menu takes a long time to appear when you click on
> the "start" button.

Heh, I am using gnome-shell and kde currently, more so gnome-shell.
kde is cool, too, but I like simplicity of gnome-shell more.

>
> In terms of functionality and ease of use, I've been able to upgrade
> from Linux Mint 14 through the current version. I was even able to
> resize my partition each time to maintain my prior installs as well.

Hm, Mint does not upgrade, how did you do that?
On Manjaro (derived from Arch Linux) all you have to do
is `pacman -Syy && pacman -Syu` to update to current version.
Manjaro has gui frontend(s) to package manager, too.

> It was very easy. And since I do all of my personal Windows
> development in VMs, nothing changed on the update and each one was
> completed in about 45 minutes after the various package re-installs
> in Synaptic.
>
> My only remaining issue is how to get the hard drives to auto-mount
> in the same way they do when I click on them in Caja. If I use the
> settings I find online, I get boot errors about failed auto-mounts.

Hm, I don't know how mount works within file manager,
without requiring root password ;)
I have added entries in /etc/fstab to automount all drives/partitions.

>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin

Best regards!

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 6:23:10 PM UTC-4, Melzzzzz wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:00:38 -0700 (PDT)
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Being a Christian is not in any part about what other professed
> > religious people do. It is about one thing only: Your personal
> > relationship with Jesus Christ.
>
> Problem is that everything you know about Jesus Christ is through
> scriptures. And scriptures are written by such people.

God has never been bested. He hasn't been beaten by the enemy such
that evil, sinful men twisted His Holy word to such an extent that
we, truth-seeking people, cannot find Him.

He gave us those things necessary to achieve faith in this world,
and that includes scripture. And His Holy Spirit comes to live
inside of us when we are born again, and He guides us to all truth,
all righteousness, all holiness, everything that is right. It is
why His is called the "Holy" Spirit... because that's who He is.

http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/3-16.htm
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:"

> > The anti-Christ spirit is everywhere and evil people will persist
> > until the day of His return. But it is from within that He calls,
> > and it is from within, and unto Him only, that a Christian walks, the
> > contrary people of the world are not a factor.
>
> There are many Christian Churches/sects and they are not even
> similar to each other.

A person's walk is unto the Lord alone. Those who are in pursuit of
Jesus Christ will be like Jesus Christ, and you will know each by their
fruit. If you see someone not acting like Christ, not moving in love
for others, then it is obvious and they are someone who needs to be
rebuked, prayed for, and possibly even witnessed to.

http://biblehub.com/john/13-34.htm
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I
have loved you, that ye also love one another."

The spiritual galvanization between believers and non-believers will
become entrenched in these end-times. It will become exceedingly
apparent who is on which side of true faith. And many Christians
will be killed for their faith because they seek to lead people to
the One whom they are despising with everything in their life and
life's purpose.

Jesus is not mocked. He will repay all for everything they have
done. But He is also Love and will forgive all who come to Him.
It is sin He is putting away, and the damage done by sin through
people who voluntarily embrace sin.

> > In terms of functionality and ease of use, I've been able to upgrade
> > from Linux Mint 14 through the current version. I was even able to
> > resize my partition each time to maintain my prior installs as well.
>
> Hm, Mint does not upgrade, how did you do that?

I believe Mint does upgrade. But, I have not upgraded in the traditional
sense, but rather by resizing a disk partition to about 30 GB and then
installing the next version to that partition.

I currently have bootup options from Linux Mint 14 through 17. :-)

> On Manjaro (derived from Arch Linux) all you have to do
> is `pacman -Syy && pacman -Syu` to update to current version.
> Manjaro has gui frontend(s) to package manager, too.

I "burn" the ISO to a USB boot disk and boot from the USB and then
do the installer. I use the same USB on my other machines and then
reformat the USB. :-)

[David Brown]

The FreeBSD logo is a picture of a cute little daemon - because in any
*nix system, there are lots of daemon processes. Many mythologies have
daemons or imps of some sort, that scuttle around in hidden places that
you don't see, either doing good or doing bad - hence the name. There
are lots of "nasty" names and terms in this business - processes often
communicate with each other by "kill", parent processes typically have
to wait for child processes to die - and if the parent dies before the
child, then the child becomes a zombie.

I remember in one university lecture on theoretical programming, the
professor was explaining the difference between "angelic choice" and
"daemonic choice". One student complained about the terms, saying they
were "reserved for higher things". The professor told him that if he
actually thought that, and was seriously bothered by the terms, then he
was in the wrong field of study.

I would say the same thing to you, Rick - you have got to get over your
petty blindness and think about what is /really/ important to you.
Otherwise you will go through life finding fault in everyone and
everything, and being unable to interact because /everyone/ has their
little faults, /every/ project is in conflict with your ideals, and
/every/ company is "evil" to some extent. The only consistent and
logical choice of lifestyle for you at the moment is a hermit living off
berries and grasshoppers - or you can wake up and realise that
dismissing a company because they have an apple in their logo, or a
programming language because they have a snake in their logo, is a sort
of childishness that most people grew out of in kindergarten.


Regarding RMS as an example, he is a complex man with very solid
opinions on several issues. Like most people, I agree with some of his
ideas (though not as radically), and disagree with others. I would not
invite him to babysit my kids, but I would happily work together on
software.


Learn to look for the good in people, and the usefulness in projects,
software, and everything else in life. Stop judging and condemning them
all by minor surface features, or assuming that you have the power to
"know the real spirit" of someone or something based on irrelevances.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:39:49 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 22/09/14 21:42, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Monday, September 22, 2014 3:35:07 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>
> >> On 22/09/14 21:23, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > I'll have to look into the intentions of the original authors, who they
> > were, what their purpose was in creating it, etc. I look at that under-
> > lying spirit, and not the outward appearance. At least I try to do this.
> > I have learned there are some spirits which are capable of deceiving me.
> > They are typically the very hard addiction spirits (heroine, crystal
> > meth, other similar hard drugs). I don't know why it is that I get no
> > discernment from those spirits. I get discernment from others, however.
>
> > We'll see though. It will require some emails, some communication, etc.
> > I did the same thing with Richard Stallman and then went on this very
> > difficult journey of creating LibSF as an alternative to the FSF because
> > of the spirit operating within him. Very frightening.
>

> The FreeBSD logo is a picture of a cute little daemon - because in any
> *nix system, there are lots of daemon processes. Many mythologies have
> daemons or imps of some sort, that scuttle around in hidden places that
> you don't see, either doing good or doing bad - hence the name. There
> are lots of "nasty" names and terms in this business - processes often
> communicate with each other by "kill", parent processes typically have
> to wait for child processes to die - and if the parent dies before the
> child, then the child becomes a zombie.

http://www.visual-freepro.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5&p=279#p279

> I remember in one university lecture on theoretical programming, the
> professor was explaining the difference between "angelic choice" and
> "daemonic choice". One student complained about the terms, saying they
> were "reserved for higher things". The professor told him that if he
> actually thought that, and was seriously bothered by the terms, then he
> was in the wrong field of study.

Yes. That is a false teaching of the anti-Christ spirit. It's a
teaching which suggests that the terms we choose to use are of no
real importance and are just words, when the truth is the terms
and things we use are important.

We will be held accountable for every idle word. And we have the
power of life and death in our tongue. We are created by a
Loving God who is "Holy, Holy, Holy," and calls us to come out
from the world and "be ye separate." He has an eternal plan for
each of us, and that plan is wrought in His foundations of
Perfection and Holiness. The Lord's prayer asks us to pray,
"Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven."

Christians are referred to as Royal Priests, Ambassadors, Servants,
here in this world. We are Royal Priests of God. We are Ambassadors
of Heaven. We are Servants of the Most High, and not of the
anti-Christ spirit that is operating in this world.

Those who are born again will understand all of this implicitly.
It will be part of their base nature because they have been given
"spiritual eyes" to see. Those who are not born again will never
be able to understand it because it's like trying to describe
our sense of sight in terms of our other senses. You cannot explain
to a blind person who's never seen what it means to see because the
ability to see is not like hearing, tasting, touching, smelling...
But were he able to see, he would implicitly understand that aspect
of his nature. Until he is able to see it remains continuously
foreign to him, beyond his ability to understand.

It is the same for the people in this world. When Adam sinned
against God, he literally died spiritually that day. His spirit
nature was gone and what remained is that which we all possess
here in our natural bodies. There was real loss with Adam's sin.
The spirit died, death entered in, and we possessed a knowledge
of both good and evil.

The anti-Christ spirit is a spirit and he is at war with God and
uses his spiritual influence to draw us into the false things of
this world. We have death, hate, fear, division, all because of
his spiritual influence upon our blind flesh.

When a man comes to accept Christ and is born again, he is given
again alive spiritually, and he's been given spiritual eyes to
see, and he will look upon all things anew. His life will change
and he will not be as he was before because his spiritual eyes
give him insight, knowledge, and an understanding of things that
his carnal mind could not comprehend.

> I would say the same thing to you, Rick - you have got to get over your
> petty blindness and think about what is /really/ important to you.
> Otherwise you will go through life finding fault in everyone and
> everything, and being unable to interact because /everyone/ has their
> little faults, /every/ project is in conflict with your ideals, and
> /every/ company is "evil" to some extent. The only consistent and
> logical choice of lifestyle for you at the moment is a hermit living off
> berries and grasshoppers - or you can wake up and realise that
> dismissing a company because they have an apple in their logo, or a
> programming language because they have a snake in their logo, is a sort
> of childishness that most people grew out of in kindergarten.

It's not petty blindness, nor judgement, nor any of the other myriad
of things you cite. It is the differences in the spirit. And whereas
the natural man cannot comprehend the difference and will get angry
when such things are explained to them, those who are born again
implicitly know.

It is from within, in service to the One WE *KNOW* in our inmost man,
that we move. It is not to the outward appearance of the flesh, or
the seemingly nice sounding words which are used, which is/are completely
unrepresentative of the true state of the man. The spirit of God gives
us discernment in all things, though to varying degree by instance, and
also to varying degree by person -- the Bible refers to this as each
person being given "a measure of" discernment, along with a measure of
all of the other spiritual gifts. Just as some on this Earth are
stronger, faster, smarter, more attractive, etc., in their natural
abilities, in the spiritual component of our lives we are each also
given a measure of abilities.

> Regarding RMS as an example, he is a complex man with very solid
> opinions on several issues. Like most people, I agree with some of his
> ideas (though not as radically), and disagree with others. I would not
> invite him to babysit my kids, but I would happily work together on
> software.

I agree with him on many things related to software. I have used the
GPLv3 rebranded as the PBL (Public Benefit License) for the temporary/
first license I have released by software under. I believe in the
fundamentals it employs, but I will not follow a project that is from
Richard Stallman because of the spirit which operates within him, and
makes him move the way he does (even unbeknownst to him, for he will
think he is being just as he is when in fact he is being influenced
spiritually to be the way he is, and were he free from that spirit he
would be different in a great many ways -- as would all people).

It's why so many marriages end in divorce. People are isolated
individuals until they are married. When they marry God joins them
and they become one flesh. When that happens the spirits living
inside of one of them are able to then go to the other one under a
type of "legal license" which causes the other person to immediateley
change. Each spirit interacts with each person in varying ways, and
the spirits the wife had left in, and the spirits the husband had let
in to their own lives prior to getting married, are now communal
between the two. This causes people to "change overnight" and behave
in new ways, having new feelings, new anger, new drives, new desires.
Things they never would've considered to be part of their lives
before are now part of their lives, and they themselves don't under-
stand why that is, but they also can't deny the fact that it's true.

The nature God describes to us in scripture is our true nature. We
are flesh-based people under the dominion of this enemy until we are
willing to seek the Truth, and such comes from an inward change that
is not of us, but is a supernatural calling by God Himself, and is of
a similar kind to our original birth -- something we personally had
no part in (except being along for the ride).

When God changes a person they are forever changed. The old has
passed, the new has come.

I testify that this is true, and that God's guidance for us through
scripture, through His Holy Spirit, that all of it is entirely and
completely true. And before it happened to me I would've argued
with anyone who would suggest such a thing were possible that such
a thing was, in fact, not possible, and that they were totally and
completely crazy to even believe such a notion. But since it has
happened to me ... I am floored by it. It is real and it is available
to anyone who will hear the truth. All they have to do is be willing
to put aside personal notions about what they believe and pursue the
truth, no matter if it takes them left, right, forward, backward, or
off in some unexpected direction.

> Learn to look for the good in people, and the usefulness in projects,
> software, and everything else in life. Stop judging and condemning them
> all by minor surface features, or assuming that you have the power to
> "know the real spirit" of someone or something based on irrelevances.

The Bible teaches us to be discerners of all things, and to cling to what
is good, but to abhor what is evil.

I do this to the best of my ability. But my call in this world is also
to be salt and light. I explain the things of God unto others. I teach
so that they too might hear, come out, and be saved as I was.

There are two aspects of our nature. One is the natural, which is our
flesh, our lives here in this world. We can touch a tree, pet a dog,
feel, taste, touch, and do, etc. The other is the spiritual. Until a
person is born again they cannot know any aspect of that spiritual
world, but the spiritual world is the more important of the two. It
is eternal and it is that part of us which really matters, for
everything here will pass away. Everything here will be consumed
in fervent heat. Everything a man does for the flesh, in service to
this world, will be lost. But everything a man does in service to
the Lord, in service to His Kingdom, being built upon Him, will
continue on beyond this world, for it is of the spirit, and he is
building something which is eternal.

It's why Visual FreePro has received no helpers to date, because the
anti-Christ spirit operating inside of them (resident demons, or some
external influence at the "significant points" of a person's life in
terms of choices, forks in the road, where these powerful plotting
demons show up to influence a person to make the wrong choices, which
are those choices against the way God's Holy Spirit would have them
go), know that there is real gain in a project like this, founded upon
the Savior of all mankind, the King of the Universe, that works being
given over to Him in this world are a right course, and that by giving
the product away for free the people receive directly from the Lord
Himself, rather than from me personally.

The spirit that a person operates under in this world is exceedingly
important. It is why the Christian will discern all things and then
move accordingly.

I pray you come to know this, David, and make it your own. Only
when you are willing to embrace truth, to receive Jesus Christ into
your heart, will this happen. It is the same for all people. Until
that time, it will forever remain utter and total foolish nonsense.

The foundation upon which we build our lives is important. As for
me and my house, we strive with great effort and passion to serve
the Lord, citing explicitly Jesus Christ as to why we have any hope,
why we have any ability, why we have any opportunity, why we have
any thing that we possess, that these are all gifts from Him, and
they are to be received in a like manner, to then be given back to
Him as He intended them to be used.

I have the attributes I do ... and they are to be used for Godly
purposes, with a foundation built atop God. They are not to be
used for personal purposes, or a foundation built atop something
other than God. And each born again Christian's life will be one
of service to God, service to their fellow man, to be salt and
light, to teach those in this world the things that they do not
know because the anti-Christ spirit does not teach them these
things, and goes to great lengths to prevent them from being taught.

Jesus is alive. He is seated at the right-hand of God waiting for
the day the Father tells Him it's time to return. Until He returns,
our service is unto His Kingdom -- a Kingdom of Power, of Spirit, of
Light, and of eternity.

It is for Jesus the born again Christian moves. It is not to serve
man as per man's needs, but rather to serve man as per God's needs,
in that we hold everything we do up before Him in our walk. We
continually listen to God who guides us spiritually to make our
choices. And just as children grow up learning how to operate in
this world, the born again Christian grows up learning how to operate
in the spiritual world. They make mistakes, are corrected by their
Father in Heaven, and they continue on. At some point they mature
and are operating as proper Servants here in this world. And just
as with natural attributes, purpose and discipline to the Most Hight
will hone the spiritual nature and attirbutes, just as purpose and
discipline on natural things in this world (study, learning a
profession, working out) will hone our natural things.

We have a purpose in this world ... and it is to serve God. The things
that we expose ourselves to, the things we are a part of, these matter.
We are called to serve God in all we do, and if we proceed from some
other foundation than Jesus Christ, it will be to our loss compared
with the effort which begins with a solid foundation upon Jesus Christ.

To put simply: We were bought with a price at the cross by the shed
blood of Jesus Christ. Our lives are not our own. We are Servants
in this world. But the servant nature of our term of Service unto
the Lord is not the same as a Servant nature here in this world, in
that as we are Servants of Him and His Holy eternal Kingdom, it is
in our gain, and not our debt, that we operate in this way, for His
ways are not like the world's ways. And His economy is not like
the world's economy. He has fire that burns without consuming the
fuel. Fishes and loaves that are able to feed without depleting.
Supernatural abilities and miracles are His domain and dominion,
something that we've all heard of but don't have a true knowledge of
until we are born again and come into the inherent spiritual
understandings given us by God.

It is why every knee shall bow, an every tongue confess, that Jesus
Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father ... because HE IS.
It is glorious beyond measure.

[David Brown]

On 23/09/14 13:15, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
<snip>

And you wonder why no one joins your projects - except perhaps some who
will put up with /anything/ as long as they get paid?

I have met, talked to, studied with, and worked with many Christians
over the years - ranging from "Sunday Christians" to dedicated "Jesus is
everything to me" born-again Christians, and I had an old relative who
was a Catholic monk. But I am not sure I have met anyone so totally
disconnected from reality as you show yourself. I certainly have never
met anyone who claimed to be a Christian, yet worked so hard to drive
any doubters or curious people away from Christianity. You paint such a
dismal, inhumane, lonely, frustrated and - quite frankly - insane
picture of Christianity that you will alienate anyone involved with you.

I am not telling you this because I want another thousand words about
how the world is guided by evil spirits, or how wonderful you claim God
is (despite how miserable you are). I am telling you this in the vague
hope that you might think about how you appear from the outside, and how
people view your outpourings (those people that read them rather than
just ignoring them entirely). I am trying to be a mirror here, because
you obviously have never thought about these things - otherwise you
would have changed your methods.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:49:16 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> I am not telling you this because I want another thousand words about
> how the world is guided by evil spirits, or how wonderful you claim God
> is (despite how miserable you are).

I am not miserable. I am filled with inner peace and joy, and this
persists continually no matter what outward facing thing I encounter.
That inner peace and joy does not change the difficulties I face in
those outward facing things I encounter.

> I am trying to be a mirror here, because
> you obviously have never thought about these things - otherwise you
> would have changed your methods.

The pure gospel message is offensive to our flesh, to those who are
perishing. To those who are saved, it is our Living Hope in Him.

The world really is black and white. People when they die are going
to enter into an eternity with God having been forgiven for their
sins because they received the Truth while here upon this Earth. Or
they will enter into a fiery Hell forever because they would not let
go of sin.

It is because I care about people too much to send them off unaware
that I teach others. Some will hear, repent, come out, and be saved.
Others will never hear no matter how properly, softly, with love
throughout, the message is conveyed. Sin is the enemy. Total and
complete enemy. All it does is destroy unto Death. It's why Jesus'
sacrifice on the cross is SO ESSENTIAL and SO AMAZING. He takes
our sin away. He takes our Death away. He SAVES us literally.

I pray you come to understand this, David. I love you, but God
loves you more. Seek Him.

[Mr Flibble]

On 23/09/2014 13:59, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I pray you come to understand this, David. I love you, but God
> loves you more. Seek Him.

Evolution is proof that your god doesn't exist mate; one cannot seek
what does not exist.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

A deceived person cannot see the Creator and His creation because it
is the truth, and the anti-Christ spirit is that which drives the
deceived person from within. People are either the children of God,
or they are children of the devil. Those who are children of the
devil will go their grave deceived, believing the lie of the enemy,
which covers the entirety of their existence by their own desire to
embrace sin and everything false. It will be their own embracing
of that falseness, and their outright refusal to believe the Truth,
which will lead them to their eternal Grave.

I pray you come out of this delusion. The enemy is leading the whole
Earth astray. The entire world. All people who are not actively
seeking after the Truth, after Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit
directly, Flibble, will perish.

If you come out and receive Him, you'll be eternally grateful. And
weap your eyes out in repentance over your sin, as all who come to
believe in Him have done, including me.

http://biblehub.com/john/8-42.htm
http://biblehub.com/john/8-43.htm
http://biblehub.com/john/8-44.htm
http://biblehub.com/john/8-45.htm
http://biblehub.com/john/8-46.htm
http://biblehub.com/john/8-47.htm

Read this carefully. It has the power to lead you to salvation, to
the One who saves.

"42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself,
but he sent me.
"43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear
my word.
"44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye
will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the
truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he
speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
"45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
"46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why
do ye not believe me?
"47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them
not, because ye are not of God."

A fearful place to be, Flibble. Seek deeply the Truth. If you do,
you WILL find it. It is not hidden, except to those who will not see.

[Mr Flibble]

On 23/09/2014 18:00, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:33:02 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 23/09/2014 13:59, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> I pray you come to understand this, David. I love you, but God
>>> loves you more. Seek Him.
>>
>> Evolution is proof that your god doesn't exist mate; one cannot seek
>> what does not exist.
>
> A deceived person cannot see the Creator and His creation because it
> is the truth, and the anti-Christ spirit is that which drives the

[snip]

The truth is that evolution is a fact mate; this fact is proof that your
god doesn't exist.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Think about what this means...

The last thing Jesus commanded before He was taken, tried, and falsely
sentenced to death, was a new commandment. He commanded that we Love
one another (as He Loved us). Who wouldn't want people to love you?
And for you to love people? Love is wonderful. Peaceful. Helpful.
All things right and true. And this was Jesus' new commandment.

When He was taken, He didn't fight back. In fact, He commanded that
Peter put down his sword.

When He was here, He taught all men everywhere the ways of God. He
led people out of sin and sinful behaviors. He showed people God
manifest in the flesh. He healed their sicknesses. Raised the dead.
Cleansed them of sin.

Why do people hate that? Why do people hate Jesus? Why do they hate
the Truth? It is for one reason only: they are children not of Christ,
but are children of the anti-Christ. They are not children of God, but
are children of the devil. And as such, they do what their father does.
If they were of God they would do those things God did, and commands.

I can't say it more clearly. If you will not hear the Truth, then
you stand already, right now, as you "live" and breathe, eternally
condemned to a fiery Hell, the second Death. You are condemned to
that place because you will not come out and hear Him. You will not
come out and humble yourself and ask forgiveness and be saved. You
will only instead stay where you are, desiring more of what you think
you already know, as the One who desires deeply to forgive you watches
as you throw everything away out of pride, sin, rebellion, and
falseness.

But if you WILL hear the Truth, then you will come to Jesus, repent,
and ask forgiveness, and He will forgive you and save you from that
fiery end by His Sovereign Power, restoring you instead to the right
relationship with God that was desired from the beginning.

It is only sin, and the deadly effect of sin operating in your life,
and your embracing that sin instead of the Truth, which will keep you
from salvation. And the way out of that sin is to ask God for help.
To turn away from your sin. To repent. To ask the One who can
forgive you to forgive you. He will, because He is Love. They had
to invent a new word to describe His Love. The word "Agape" was new
to the Greek language when they were describing the Love of Jesus
for His creation.

Everybody makes this choice continually by the things in their life.
You make the right choice. Humble yourself and ask Him for forgiveness.
He will hear you, and forgive you. It's why He came, for the name "Jesus"
literally means "God who saves," in the same way the name Shoemaker
means "one who makes shoes."

Trust in Him. Ask for forgiveness and be saved. It's never too late
until you die, and none of us know in what day, hour, or minute our
death will come. Ask today. Ask right now. Ask Him to save you too.

In love... to each of you... because of Him. Peace.

[Mr Flibble]

On 23/09/2014 19:08, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Think about what this means...
>
> The last thing Jesus commanded before He was taken, tried, and falsely
> sentenced to death, was a new commandment. He commanded that we Love

[snip]

Evolution is proof that Jesus, if he existed at all, was just another
ignorant human being. Your god doesn't exist mate; deal with it.

/Flibble

[Christopher Pisz]

Great, here we go again with comp.lang.c++.theology. Can you guys at
least put (OT) in your topic if you are going to do that argument all
over again.

I'm embarrassed to be Christian sometimes when I see others that cannot
even write a paragraph without it having to contain a religious
reference. Stop baiting people. You can talk about programming without
having to write a full testimony each time.

and Fibble...well, yea, just put (OT) in your topic if you cannot resist
the urge to argue evolution without a point again.

[Dombo]

Op 23-Sep-14 20:08, Rick C. Hodgin schreef:

Christianity, the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own
father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and
telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove
an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a
rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical
tree...Yeah makes perfect sense.

[Ian Collins]

Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Think about what this means...

It means you are being rude by being off topic.

Usenet has it's own set of (largely unwritten) rules which have evolved
to minimise trolling and other noise. One of those rules is to stay on
topic. Follow it and people will respect you, ignore it and you will
end up in kill files and be ignored by those who can help you.

Stick to C++ here, preach elsewhere.

--
Ian Collins

[Drew Lawson]

In article <e5605492-c3f8-4b55...@googlegroups.com>

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:

>On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:33:02 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 23/09/2014 13:59, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> > I pray you come to understand this, David. I love you, but God
>> > loves you more. Seek Him.
>>
>> Evolution is proof that your god doesn't exist mate; one cannot seek
>> what does not exist.
>
>A deceived person cannot see the Creator and His creation because it
>is the truth, and the anti-Christ spirit is that which drives the
>deceived person from within. People are either the children of God,
>or they are children of the devil.

[tweet] Red flag on the cross-bearing team.

If you are going to insist on going biblical on everything, then
you will have to remember that (in that reference) everything was
created by god, nothing by the devil. The devil lacks the power
to create, so he cannot create children.

God created it all -- liars, sodomites, politicians, disco, cable
news, ebola, anthrax. Oh, and Hell. Can't forget that god created
Hell. And only god sends people there.

In earlier centuries, christian theologians embraced that god created
all the bad things too. It is the only way to reconcile the fluffy
god with the "rain fire on sinners" god, and also with the "send
bears to dismember children" god.

I have no problem with having belief, but I find it hard to respect
the groups who say, "Here is the Book of Absolute Truth. Only read
the pages that I marked."

--
Drew Lawson While they all shake hands
and draw their lines in the sand
and forget about the mess they've made

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:23:46 PM UTC-4, Ian Collins wrote:
> Stick to C++ here, preach elsewhere.

There's something afoot. I don't know what it is, but it is evident.
So many Christians on Facebook are posting about those things which
are core to a Christian's life and focus, a turning away from the
things of this world, and a focus on the way Jesus calls us to live.

A chasm is forming between the professed believers, and the true
believers. The true believers are being moved from within to speak,
and to change the things in their lives which need changing. It's
a call toward holiness, toward service unto God.

It is very powerful. Really something. Palpable even.

[Mr Flibble]

You have already forgotten what I have taught you. Again: evolution is
proof that your god, Jesus, doesn't exist.

/Flibble

[Christopher Pisz]

On 9/23/2014 4:23 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:23:46 PM UTC-4, Ian Collins wrote:

> SNIP

> A chasm is forming between the professed believers, and the true
> believers. The true believers are being moved from within to speak,
> and to change the things in their lives which need changing. It's
> a call toward holiness, toward service unto God.
>
> It is very powerful. Really something. Palpable even.

True belief is not the same as fanaticism, not even close. Did Jesus
chase the pharisees around saying, "But guys, I love you. Comeon guys.
Hey guys. I know you don't want to hear it, but..." "shush
Jesus'..."Guys, but, guys!"

No.

He spoke his piece, they rejected it, and that was that. He spent His
time teaching those who came to Him to hear it, not those who told Him
to shut up after every sentence. You preach to people who are willing to
hear it, not people whom you will end up arguing with for 75+ threads
and in the end have both walk away just pissed off at each other even
more than when they started.

Everyone rants on Facebook, it's nothing new. I can count 100+ New Age
posts a day too, or 100+ political posts. All I want, is to see a video
or two with a monkey in it.

I think you'll find that you will have a _much_ larger impact when you
observe more and talk less. When the opportunity presents itself, and
God will present it to you, that is when you give your life story and
testimony, rather than every single sentence to every single person you
ever interact with. The latter will just get you ignored rather than
sought out.

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 3:45:00 PM UTC-4, Dombo wrote:

> the belief ... you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh ...

Careful! If you had expressed that view in mid 1500's England, that the
bread was symbolic, the Church would have burned you at the stake along
with hundreds of others for rejecting the doctrine of transubstantiation,
that the bread and wine were literally transformed into the body and blood
of Christ.

Daniel

[Christopher Pisz]

Please do not label all of Christianity as being defined by the Catholic
Church. I agree the Catholic Church is horrible.

They pray, bow down, and kiss statues of Mary, but evidently are not
good enough to talk to God. That goes against the old testament, the new
testament, and especially the ten commandments.

They receive forgiveness from a person rather than God and are free to
commit the same action again the next day in trade for ceremonial
counting of beads.

They are _money hungry_

I suspect the anti-christ will be affiliated with the Catholic Church,
but that's just my own theory
Ten hills...World leader...

[Ian Collins]

Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:23:46 PM UTC-4, Ian Collins wrote:
>> Stick to C++ here, preach elsewhere.

<more OT nonsense>

Welcome to my kill file.

--
Ian Collins

[Drew Lawson]

In article <220ff353-0f27-44de...@googlegroups.com>

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:
>

>When He was here, He taught all men everywhere the ways of God. He
>led people out of sin and sinful behaviors. He showed people God
>manifest in the flesh. He healed their sicknesses. Raised the dead.
>Cleansed them of sin.

And told them to abandon their family responsibilities. ("Let the
dead bury the dead.)

Also denounced peace. ("Think not that I am come to send peace on
earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.")

>Why do people hate that? Why do people hate Jesus? Why do they hate

Why do you hate Jesus? Why do you feel the need to lie (by omission
and editing sophistry) about his life and full message?

You seem to love 10-20% of Jesus.

--
|Drew Lawson | If you're not part of the solution |
| | you're part of the precipitate. |

[Drew Lawson]

In article <716cb2ba-71c2-41d3...@googlegroups.com>

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:

>On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:23:46 PM UTC-4, Ian Collins wrote:
>> Stick to C++ here, preach elsewhere.
>
>There's something afoot.

Try an anti-fungal.


--
Drew Lawson | "But the senator, while insisting he was not
| intoxicated, could not explain his nudity."

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Ian Collins <ian-...@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
<c8elvn...@mid.individual.net> thusly:

Me too. When I saw so many messages on this thread, I was hoping that
I was going to learn something cool about IDEs that could help me
refactor my C++ code and instead I got a bunch of off topic stuff.

I think I remember now why I gave up on this newsgroup and was only
subscribed to the moderated group.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

[Ian Collins]

Richard wrote:
>
> I think I remember now why I gave up on this newsgroup and was only
> subscribed to the moderated group.

This one's OK so long as you have an up to date kill file...

--
Ian Collins

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't say it more clearly. If you will not hear the Truth, then
> you stand already, right now, as you "live" and breathe, eternally
> condemned to a fiery Hell, the second Death.

What a loving god that is.

If he were a person, someone who tortures his own children in a torture
cellar he himself built, for the sole reason that his children don't
love him the right way, we would call that person a mentally sick
monster.

But if a god does that exact same thing, even a million times worse,
we call him perfect and all-benevolent and all-loving?

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 9:00:59 AM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I can't say it more clearly. If you will not hear the Truth, then
> > you stand already, right now, as you "live" and breathe, eternally
> > condemned to a fiery Hell, the second Death.
>
> What a loving god that is.
>
> If he were a person, someone who tortures his own children in a torture
> cellar he himself built, for the sole reason that his children don't
> love him the right way, we would call that person a mentally sick
> monster.
>
> But if a god does that exact same thing, even a million times worse,
> we call him perfect and all-benevolent and all-loving?

It is sin that caused our death, not God. God Himself made a way out
of that death through His Son, Jesus Christ. He came here to die in
our place, to take the punishment due us in our place. He came here
to save that which was lost through sin.

It is sin that is the enemy. It is the falseness that comes with sin.

Consider all of creation ... an orchestrated mechanism. Everything
works perfectly, harmoniously together. Everywhere the laws of
physics persist, things hold on exactly as they are and were created
to be ... except where God has given free will over to His creation.
And there, because of sin, the nature of His designed perfection is
perverted into falseness, and a God who is perfect, has created
perfection, and operates only and entirely in perfection, cannot have
imperfection operating in His creation. As such, He built Hell to
put away all sin. Hell was also originally only created for Satan
and his demons, but because men have been puffed up with pride, and
are unwilling to hear the truth, they too will enter into Hell.

God has made a way out. It is free. There is nothing a person must
do except believe that Jesus came to save them. And only those
people who are willing to hear the truth will believe this. Everyone
else will only believe and follow falseness, because of the way they
embrace sin and falseness in their lives. They themselves will be
the reason they go to Hell. It is not because of anything related
to God because He has done everything to save everyone who will hear.

The loving God that we have took on the entirety of sin upon Himself
at the cross. He died in our place, taking our punishment, that we
will never know that Death, that we will never know that end. It is
free. It is available to every person on the planet. Is is a true
demonstration of His Love for us, that while we were yet sinners, He
died to save us when He would've been justified in letting all of us
die due to our sin nature.

If you can hear the truth, answer His call. He calls out to people
to save them, so that they will not enter into Hell. And He calls
out to all people everywhere continually throughout their life.

He's calling out to you right now. Answer Him.

[Mr Flibble]

On 25/09/2014 14:46, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

[snip]

>
> He's calling out to you right now. Answer Him.

Those ringing noises you are hearing in your head are a symptom of
psychosis mate; "He" doesn't exist, evolution is proof of that.

/Flibble

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is sin that caused our death, not God.

Who created hell? Who created the rules by which he condemns us to hell?
Who imposes these rules? Who sends us to hell to be tortured forever?

No, your god is a mentally sick psychopath, no matter how much you try
to wiggle with your theological excuses.

Imagine that a father had built a torture cellar, and locks up his
children in there and tortures them. When questioned, he answers:
"I didn't condment them to be locked in the cellar. They did!"
Would you accept this as a valid excuse, and let the man go free?

Of course not. Yet your god is exactly like that, and you excuse him.

> God Himself made a way out
> of that death through His Son, Jesus Christ. He came here to die in
> our place, to take the punishment due us in our place. He came here
> to save that which was lost through sin.

Imagine if a father tortured and killed his own oldest son so that he
could "forgive" his younger children for their "crimes". Would you
accept that as a valid excuse and let him go free? Of course not.

Yet when it's your god...

Your god is nothing more than an evil, mentally sick psychopath.
He doesn't deserve worship and love. He deserves condemnation and
contempt. Even if he existed I wouldn't worship him. He would have
a lot to answer for.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 7:35:35 AM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Who...? Who...? Who...? Who...? Would you...?

In your reply, you asked several questions. Are you actually wanting
answers? I'll tell you this much... the answers you're seeking are in
the response to that question. If you want the answers, you will find
them. If you don't want the answers, you will never find them.

Are you actually wanting answers?

[Drew Lawson]

In article <193e578a-64e6-431e...@googlegroups.com>

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:

>On Friday, September 26, 2014 7:35:35 AM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> Who...? Who...? Who...? Who...? Would you...?
>
>In your reply, you asked several questions. Are you actually wanting
>answers?

What kind of nutjob answers rhetorical questions?



--
Drew Lawson | Though it's just a memory,
| some memories last forever

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In your reply, you asked several questions. Are you actually wanting
> answers? I'll tell you this much... the answers you're seeking are in
> the response to that question. If you want the answers, you will find
> them. If you don't want the answers, you will never find them.
>
> Are you actually wanting answers?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

For example, one of the questions I asked was: Who created hell?

How exactly does the answer depend on what I might or might not want?
Jut answer the questions, plain and simple.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 10:13:32 AM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In your reply, you asked several questions. Are you actually wanting
> > answers? I'll tell you this much... the answers you're seeking are in
> > the response to that question. If you want the answers, you will find
> > them. If you don't want the answers, you will never find them.
> >
> > Are you actually wanting answers?
>
> That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
>
> For example, one of the questions I asked was: Who created hell?

God created Hell. But you stop too soon in your inventory of God.
While God created Hell, He also created a way out of Hell for all
of those who pursue truth and are willing to turn away from sin.

> How exactly does the answer depend on what I might or might not want?

When a person asks questions like these they may be espousing, or they
may be seeking. The tone of your post indicates you didn't really want
answers, hence my question.

> Jut answer the questions, plain and simple.

Jesus is the answer. He brings everything God's done into fullest
focus. God created Hell to put away sin. Jesus saves us from Hell.
God put away sin, and saved everyone who will listen to truth, past,
present, and future. One Death on the cross, His own, and all who
share in His Death also rise with Him.

The answer is there. For you it will be found in your willingness
to hear the truth. If you are unwilling to hear the truth, it will
elude you completely. If you are willing to hear the truth, then
you will find the answer, and understand.

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> God created Hell. But you stop too soon in your inventory of God.
> While God created Hell, He also created a way out of Hell for all
> of those who pursue truth and are willing to turn away from sin.

In other words, God created a place of eternal indescribable torment
for his creations, and he sends there anybody who doesn't love him
the right way.

So he's like a sadistic mafia boss: Either pay your due respect,
or you'll get tortured mercilessly. Your choice.

Why should I have any kind of respect for a god that does that?
That kind of god would be a monster to be feared.

Your proselytizing isn't very convincing, you know? "Obey God,
or he'll send you to hell, which he himself created, to be tortured
forever."

That's not a loving god. That's a despicable monster.

>> Jut answer the questions, plain and simple.
>
> Jesus is the answer.

Are you being a smartass? You know perfectly well that's not what
I asked.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 12:41:59 PM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> In other words...

I'm sorry, very sorry, but you will never understand ... not until you
are willing to understand. You come to this table with your own ideas
about God, and about the way you believe things are, and it is there
within your own "findings" that the barrier exists. The truth is being
explained to you, but you will not hear any of it because you will not
hear any of it. You are convinced in your personal understanding of
who God is, and because of that you are blind to the truth.

Until God draws you to the truth, you will never be able to hear it.
You will always be on the outside looking in, angry about the fact that
you believe God is a particular way, when He is not that way. And angry
that people like me have found something that you do not and cannot have
because of the barriers you carry with you, and for no other reason.

I pray you come out of your pride, arrogance, your personal beliefs and
viewpoints, and ask the question ... really ask the question, about who
God is, for in the day that you do ... on that day you will find the
answer. Until then, I will keep you in my prayers as the Lord brings
you to my remembrance.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 12:41:59 PM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> In other words...

FWIW, I had your exact argument 20 years ago. I had someone witness to
me about Jesus Christ and my responses were almost verbatim what you've
said here.

Until the change takes place within... it will be your position. But
on the day the change takes place, you will experience a new world that
you did not even dream existed. Your eternal eyes will be opened, and
you'll be absolutely and completely floored.

I pray this happens to you. And to everyone on this group.

[Wouter van Ooijen]

Rick C. Hodgin schreef op 26-Sep-14 7:53 PM:

Please have the decency not to pray for me, I do *not* appreciate it.

Wouter van Ooijen

[Mr Flibble]

Evolution is proof that you are deluded mate.

/Flibble

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 11:41:59 AM UTC-5, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > God created Hell. But you stop too soon in your inventory of God.
>
> > While God created Hell, He also created a way out of Hell for all
>
> > of those who pursue truth and are willing to turn away from sin.
>
>
>
> In other words, God created a place of eternal indescribable torment
>
> for his creations, and he sends there anybody who doesn't love him
>
> the right way.
>
>
> So he's like a sadistic mafia boss: Either pay your due respect,
> or you'll get tortured mercilessly. Your choice.
>

He's the server. He helps us figure out who we are.
If you want to ignore the server you can, but a client
can't really do that and be helpful to anyone. At that
point the client is just making stuff up and hoping no
one notices. There are consequences for a "client" that
behaves that way. I would remove that "client" from my
system -- thanks, but no thanks.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net

[seeplus]

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 11:47:15 PM UTC+10, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> He died in our place, taking our punishment, that we
> will never know that Death, that we will never know that end. It is
> free. It is available to every person on the planet. Is is a true
> demonstration of His Love for us, that while we were yet sinners, He
> died to save us when He would've been justified in letting all of us
> die due to our sin nature.

Listen, if you are the Master of the Universe, how would being
stuck on a cross for a day be a big deal?

Just grow new arms and legs and walk it off.
Get over it.

Give me a break, that wouldn't even atone for even
one of my minor sins.

>>Until the change takes place within... it will be your position. But
>>on the day the change takes place, you will experience a new world that
>>you did not even dream existed. Your eternal eyes will be opened, and
>>you'll be absolutely and completely floored.

And hopefully off to a psychiatrist .. and maybe a dietician.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 8:09:13 PM UTC-5, seeplus wrote:
> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 11:47:15 PM UTC+10, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> > He died in our place, taking our punishment, that we
> > will never know that Death, that we will never know that end. It is
> > free. It is available to every person on the planet. Is is a true
> > demonstration of His Love for us, that while we were yet sinners, He
> > died to save us when He would've been justified in letting all of us
> > die due to our sin nature.
>
> Listen, if you are the Master of the Universe, how would being
> stuck on a cross for a day be a big deal?
>

It's a big deal because of who He is and what He
allowed to happen to Him. He could have
overwhelmed those who rose up against Him. He chose
to die for us. It wasn't an easy choice for Him,
but He placed our well-being before His own.

> Just grow new arms and legs and walk it off.
> Get over it.
>
> Give me a break, that wouldn't even atone for even
> one of my minor sins.
>

'And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn
among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person
who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the
life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the
altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason
of the life that makes atonement.' Therefore I said to the sons of
Israel, 'No person among you may eat blood, nor may any alien who
sojourns among you eat blood.' So when any man from the sons of
Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches
a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and
cover it with earth. Leviticus 17:10-13

Yeshua is the Lamb of G-d. His blood was shed.
Also notice how Moses echoes what he has been told.
G-d told him something and he relayed it to the
Israelites.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It was because He did it as a man. He who exists
outside of time, is over all things, humbled Himself
and put on a physical body. He was born in the
natural way (begotten), and came to live and teach
as one of us, and in so doing, being 100% man, He
was able to legally, in God's sight, under God's Law,
sacrifice Himself to pay for our sins. And whereas
the Jews already had been given the sacrifice, and
even daily sacrifice, because Jesus was both 100%
man, and 100% God, His sacrifice was not a daily
sacrifice, but is an eternal sacrifice. A one-time
atoning death for all.

Our Almighty God, who created the entire universe,
who calls the stars each by name, came here to
save us.

Love has no greater example, that while we were
yet sinners (being mean and hateful even to Jesus,
all of us), that He would come here and go through
all He did during His last few days on Earth, and
to endure the far worse crushing as The Father
poured out all of His wrath and anger for us upon
His only begotten Son, to save us from going there.

It demonstrates how much He loves us, and how
much He hates sin.

We also remember the example God gave us to
demonstrate conclusively the only destructive
nature of sin. God sent a flood to destroy all
the Earth, starting over with Noah, his three
sons, and their wives. Noah was chosen by God
as a faithful believer, and he did all God commanded,
even under scorn and ridicule for 100 years. Being
a pteacher, he and his sons, and their wives, trusted
God, and labored 100 years to build the ark.

But even when God started over with a preacher,
and his devout family, look at what sin has brought.
Men everywherr fighting eaxh other, killing each
other. Hate, war, disease, famine.

Sin is totally and completely evil. And sin was upon
the whole Earth, in all people. Unholy, and deserving
eternal damnation by God's own Law.

Yet Jesus came here to be born as one of us, to
live among us, to "step down" from His Heavenly,
eternal throne, and to sacrifice His own body for
you.

Jesus still bears the marks, even after His resurrection.
He restored His battered, broken, torn body, except
He kept the nail holes, and where the guard pierced
His side.

The nature of God... Eternal. King. Sovereign. The
Almighty. For us, He stepped down to live as we
live, to eat, drink, go to the toilet, sleep, walk among
the sick, the broken, the liars, the thieves, for 33
years before sacrificing His own body for us. To enter
into the place of punishment and have the due penalty
of every sin, of every man He saves, poured out upon
Himself instead of us... Just amazing.

Jesus is Love. He is the love of God manifest in the
flesh, to demonstrate His love by deed, for us. And
His plan also puts away all evil forever, so that what
remains is a system that is eternal, no hunger, no
thirst, no pain, no suffering, but only the fullest
richness of God's greatness given to us.

We are taught that the believers will be married to
Jesus in Heaven. And as on Earth when two marry,
they become one and share all equally. All Jesus
has will be ours, co-heirs in all.

It's beyond imagination beautiful what He did for
us, and what our future holds.

Satan, and every demon, and everyone embracing
sin in their life, are condemned. They will never
enter into Heaven, and will only know unending
torment, the price of sin, the only way to keep
powerful eternal beings who are unwilling to
operate within the boundaries of design, from then
doing damage to that creation. And because of
their great anger, they are lashing out in rage and
hate trying to cause as much damage and destruction
as possible, both here upon the Earth, but their
primary goal is to do eternal damage, to lead men
to sin, to unrepentant sin, which leads to damnation.

Jesus made a way out of every sickness, every peril,
everything imaginable which can befall us, and it
begins and ends with faith in Him, that even if we
die here upon the Earth, yet will we rise after death
to then be with Jesus, in Heaven, forever.

That is why He came (John 3:16), to save that which
was lost. He came to save all who will hear the truth,
who will believe and be saved. He came here for no
one else because sin is the enemy. And the sin nature
of an eternal being, which all of us are, is only wholly
destructive, and must be put away.

God is love. Sin is hate. God is life. Sin is disease.
God is light. Sin is darkness (the absence of light).

God got it right with everything He's done. He looks
at things from eternal perspective, yet He cares for
us as well. Individually. One on one.

Jesus is a friend, closer than a brother, One who
never leaves us, nor forsakes us. He is our all in
all, our desire of desires, and everything that is
good, right, true, loving, caring, helping, pure,
undefiled, in this world.

In short: He is our hope, and everything we aspire
to be. And He came here, to our wotld, and lived
as one of us, to save us, and lead us as we face
an enemy who is only leading us to destruction.

He is love, in the flesh, for us.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I came across this today. It is describing the New Jerusalem coming
down from Heaven for all those who are saved by the blood of Jesus'
death on the cross, and the restoration of all people who will hear
the truth, the original intent and purpose of God revealed in the
vision to John the Apostle, recorded in Revelation for us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNR5i4Keg8

[Mr Flibble]

Evolution is proof that your god doesn't exist mate.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

I also found this video, which shows what will happen in the end-most
times, and after the judgement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8t2L9TcAU

[Mr Flibble]

On 27/09/2014 20:24, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I also found this video, which shows what will happen in the end-most
> times, and after the judgement:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8t2L9TcAU

You don't fucking give up do you mate?

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:31:22 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 27/09/2014 20:24, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > I also found this video, which shows what will happen in the end-most
> > times, and after the judgement:
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8t2L9TcAU
>

> You don't give up do you mate?

One day you will understand why that is.

[Mr Flibble]

I understand that you are deluded mate.

/Flibble

[Mr Flibble]

On 27/09/2014 21:25, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

If you are going to quote someone then don't fucking edit the quote; it
is a) not polite and b) makes you look like a prick.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, September 27, 2014 5:05:30 PM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
> /Flibble

Jesus will save you too, Mr. Flibble. Ask Him. He loves you with
a real, eternal love. He asks you to come unto Him that He may
share with you all that is His. All He asks is that you receive
it in turn, from Him, as He is.

Will you receive His free gift of eternal life in paradise?

[Öö Tiib]

On Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:04:14 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> It was because He did it as a man. He who exists
> outside of time, is over all things, humbled Himself
> and put on a physical body.

Ok, but you say that It did it to itself willfully. Like some
man who decides to live a day without sight can blindfold
itself for that day. Should we consider such a deed as
something special? As something eternally remarkable?

> Our Almighty God, who created the entire universe,
> who calls the stars each by name, came here to
> save us.

It nowhere mentions universe. The sick stuff that the
book describes is mostly not love but misdoings of some
Jews I can't care less about. Failed message.

Nothing is like it should be if anything the book describes
is true. That gives us full reasons to trust that everything
described in Bible has been made up by people who did not
even have idea how the world around us works. No slightest
evidence of superior knowledge, Failed mission.

The people who worship the God of that book, the Jews,
Christians and Muslims have all proven to be terrible,
most bloodthirsty lot with past 2000 years of our history.
Worthless followers. Failed teachings.

Failures do not matter, I can still love a loser. However,
you suggest to love It or else It will torture us forever?
That is totally out of question if to put like that. I can
no way love anything that threatens me. Can you? What you
got there is story about interesting but disgusting
monster. How can you love it?

Btw, why It did breed us from apes? Was it because apes
are so idiotic? I would anytime prefer bears or even cats
to apes.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, September 27, 2014 5:54:50 PM UTC-4, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:04:14 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Our Almighty God, who created the entire universe,
> > who calls the stars each by name, came here to
> > save us.
>
> It nowhere mentions universe.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/genesis/1.htm

"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
"16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to
rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he
made the stars also."

> Nothing is like it should be if anything the book describes
> is true.

Nothing here upon this Earth is like it should be ... because of sin.

> That gives us full reasons to trust that everything
> described in Bible has been made up by people who did not
> even have idea how the world around us works. No slightest
> evidence of superior knowledge, Failed mission.

It is sin that blinds people to the truth. They cannot see what is
before them because they have no eyes to see it, and they would not
receive eyes even if they were offered freely to them.

Such is the nature of sin. And it is why God is putting it away in
the fires of Hell forever. Sin only destroys unto Death. It does
no other thing.

> Failures do not matter, I can still love a loser. However,
> you suggest to love It or else It will torture us forever?
> That is totally out of question if to put like that. I can
> no way love anything that threatens me. Can you? What you
> got there is story about interesting but disgusting
> monster. How can you love it?

You are unable to see God as He is because of sin. You can only see
Him through your carnal (flesh and blood) eyes and human mind. You
are unable to understand anything that relates to the spirit, because
you do not have eyes to see that, nor the born again nature to
understand it.

It will always be like that until you are willing to humble yourself
and hear the truth (regardless of where that truth takes you, ahead,
left, right, behind you). Until that day God will only appear to
you, and everyone else who is perishing, to be a monster.

> Btw, why It did breed us from apes? Was it because apes
> are so idiotic? I would anytime prefer bears or even cats
> to apes.

Evolution does not exist. We were created. All of the animals were
created. Adam gave them names before the Fall of man. They were made
beautiful and wonderful, and they all lived together with us without
death or fighting. But now we live in a fractured creation, the result
of sin entering in. Because of sin everything has been lost. And that
is where the tremendous gift of God is made visible, is that within
this total loss, God Himself steps out of His eternal Kingdom, to reach
down, stretch out His arms, and save us in eternity.

There is no greater gift. I pray you come to understand this.

BTW, if you want to understand it know this: Faith comes by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God. If you begin to read the Bible, or
listen to the audio Bible and read along, you will find that it's not
like other books. The words contained therein are God's words, and
they are spirit, and they are life. They bring with them the spirit
nature of power and dominion.

There's an expression I've heard among Christians:
(1) The Bible will keep you from sin, or
(2) Sin will keep you from the Bible.

God is right there with you right now. Ask Him to come into your
heart, to enter into your life, to set the things right that need
to be set right, to restore that which the enemy has stolen. He
is more than willing to do this. It's why He came ... to save YOU
personally. He would've done it if you were the ONLY one who
could be saved.

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 28 September 2014 01:11:58 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Saturday, September 27, 2014 5:54:50 PM UTC-4, Öö Tiib wrote:
> > On Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:04:14 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > > Our Almighty God, who created the entire universe,
> > > who calls the stars each by name, came here to
> > > save us.
> >
> > It nowhere mentions universe.
>
> http://biblehub.com/kjv/genesis/1.htm
>
> "1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
> "16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to
> rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he
> made the stars also."

So you claim that "he made the stars also" means that It made
Universe? That happened few thousands of years ago on fourth
day after making Earth together with Moon and Sun?

It feels like arguing if Earth is flat or if Elvis is alive.
Age of our Universe is 13.8 billions of years.

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, September 26, 2014 12:41:59 PM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> In other words...
>
> I'm sorry, very sorry, but you will never understand ... not until you
> are willing to understand. You come to this table with your own ideas
> about God, and about the way you believe things are, and it is there
> within your own "findings" that the barrier exists. The truth is being
> explained to you, but you will not hear any of it because you will not
> hear any of it. You are convinced in your personal understanding of
> who God is, and because of that you are blind to the truth.

In other words, you refuse to explain. I'll take that as you actually
being unable to explain because it doesn't even make sense to you.

You have a rational mind, and your rational mind is telling you that
the existence of a god-created hell makes absolutely no sense from any
kind of perspective, but you deliberately try to silence that part of
yourself. In other words, you deliberately try to delude yourself into
believing nonsensical immoral things.

> I pray you come out of your pride, arrogance, your personal beliefs and
> viewpoints, and ask the question ... really ask the question, about who
> God is, for in the day that you do ... on that day you will find the
> answer. Until then, I will keep you in my prayers as the Lord brings
> you to my remembrance.

Have you ever thought *why* you would need to pray for anything?

Does God only do things if you pray for them? Does God only do good if
you pray for it? Does God withhold his benevolence if he doesn't get
enough prayers? Does that really sound like a good and benevolent
father to you? A father who refuses to help his children who are in
grave danger, unless his other children ask him long and hard enough?
A father who sees one of his children in danger and does nothing to
help because he wasn't asked by somebody else? What kind of loving
father is that?

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, September 26, 2014 12:41:59 PM UTC-4, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> In other words...
>
> FWIW, I had your exact argument 20 years ago. I had someone witness to
> me about Jesus Christ and my responses were almost verbatim what you've
> said here.

Just cut the ridiculous "I was once like you" crap. It's an overly
used cliche by street preachers and in the vast majority of cases
it's just outright lying. And it doesn't even matter if it's true or
not, it's convincing to nobody.

> Until the change takes place within... it will be your position. But
> on the day the change takes place, you will experience a new world that
> you did not even dream existed. Your eternal eyes will be opened, and
> you'll be absolutely and completely floored.

Let me ask you a question: Assume that that would happen exactly as
you describe. How exactly would you or me know what exactly is
causing it?

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I came across this today. It is describing the New Jerusalem coming
> down from Heaven for all those who are saved by the blood of Jesus'
> death on the cross, and the restoration of all people who will hear
> the truth, the original intent and purpose of God revealed in the
> vision to John the Apostle, recorded in Revelation for us:

And we should care about it why, exactly?

[Juha Nieminen]

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Will you receive His free gift of eternal life in paradise?

Yeah, will you accept is "free" gift in exchange of not being
mercilessly tortured with indescribable torment for all eternity?
Sounds like a good deal.

Of course another question is that you would have to live all
eternity under the iron fist of this mentally sick egomaniacal
psychopath who creates people just to send them to hell to be
tortured unless they love him the right way, and who extorts people
to love him by threatening them with hell. This is the same god
who simply watches by while innocent children are starving and
being tortured, raped and killed, without even lifting a finger
to help, even though he could perfectly well do so. He's not only
a mentally sick psychopath, but also criminally negligent. He created
people just so that they would suffer, die and on top of that go to
hell to be tortured forever.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

> So you claim that "he made the stars also"
> means that It made Universe? That happened
> few thousands of years ago on fourth day
> after making Earth together with Moon and
> Sun?

It's the nature of God. He is Truth. He does not
and cannot lie. He told us the order of creation.
"And there was evening, and there was morning,
the Nth day." They were 24 normal days.

It's through faith we believe the Truth.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:22:03 AM UTC-5, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Will you receive His free gift of eternal life in paradise?
>
> Yeah, will you accept is "free" gift in exchange of not being
> mercilessly tortured with indescribable torment for all eternity?
> Sounds like a good deal.

It's free of charge.

>
> Of course another question is that you would have to live all
> eternity under the iron fist of this mentally sick egomaniacal
> psychopath who creates people just to send them to hell to be
> tortured unless they love him the right way, and who extorts people
> to love him by threatening them with hell.

Except for egomaniac I think you are mistaken. He's
justifiably proud because there is no one else like Him.

> This is the same god
> who simply watches by while innocent children are starving and
> being tortured, raped and killed, without even lifting a finger
> to help, even though he could perfectly well do so.

Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay
His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them.
But Yeshua said, Let the children alone, and do not hinder
them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs
to such as these." After laying His hands on them, He
departed from there. Matthew 19:13-15


At that time the disciples came to Yeshua and said,
"Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" And
He called a child to Himself and set him before them,
and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted
and become like children, you will not enter the
kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this
child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoever receives one such child in My name receives
Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who
believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him
to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to
be drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:1-6

You are right to be concerned for the welfare of children.
He cares for them more than you do.

[Balwinder S Dheeman]

+1

Nothing is perfect in this world, we can easily see/watch a lot of
discrimination created by almost all the religious proponents, crime is
increasing everywhere in name of religious campaigns and, or wars and if
we carefully look at history and Christians they are no different than
Muslims and other such religious factions. If all that's happening due
to any kind of God/Goddess and, or his/her will/wish/advice we must
peacefully wipe out everything related to such a cruel personality and,
or his/her followers as soon as possible from this world by educating
and informing everyone ;)

--
Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman (http://bdheeman.BlogSpot.in/)
"Working together, works! The proof is GNU/Linux and F/LOSS Projects;
Do you too voluntarily work on or contribute to making any difference?"

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 28 September 2014 15:24:36 UTC+3, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > So you claim that "he made the stars also"
> > means that It made Universe? That happened
> > few thousands of years ago on fourth day
> > after making Earth together with Moon and
> > Sun?
>
> It's the nature of God. He is Truth. He does not
> and cannot lie.

Somehow the ground beneath of feet consists of layers
of sedimentary rocks that have formed during several
billions of years.
Somehow that geologic stack is filled with fossils
of (non existing in your book) animals from millions
of years ago.

If It can't lie then It did not put it all there to
deceive us and so your book and the story of creation
in it is totally wrong.

> He told us the order of creation.
> "And there was evening, and there was morning,
> the Nth day." They were 24 normal days.

I have read that book fully. I won't throw it away.
I have read and enjoyed some worse pieces of fiction.

> It's through faith we believe the Truth.

Universe is 13.8 billions (not few thousands) of
years old, Earth is round (not flat) and Elvis is
long dead (not alive). Your "Truth" is worthless
fruit of imagination since it lacks any contacts
with this reality.

[Öö Tiib]

On Sunday, 28 September 2014 18:23:15 UTC+3, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> You are right to be concerned for the welfare of children.
> He cares for them more than you do.

Yours God doesn't care of anything. It does not exist. We see in
reality tortured half dead children and little corpses. Disgusting
soulless criminals doing monstrous things using your God as excuse
and modern weapons as measure. Would they do it if they had
slightest fear that the God may exist?
http://www.pinterest.com/damratory/wheres-the-humanity/
Only other humans can care and intervene; here are no Gods
who care.

[Mr Flibble]

Rick, mate, will you just fuck off.

/Flibble

[woodb...@gmail.com]

Please don't swear here.


Brian

[Rick C. Hodgin]

http://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-18.htm

"Having the understanding darkened, being
alienated from the life of God through the
ignorance that is in them, because of the
blindness of their heart:"

God has revealed the state of man to all.
It is because of the implication of that state
that I reach out, pray, and teach.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-15.htm

"And whosoever was not found written in the
book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

I love people. God loves people (John 3:16).
There is love abounding in God, and in the
truth of His gospel message, and in His
people who are born again. And here we
see the full power of sin manifest, that even
though God loves each person, even though
He has completely taken away the need of
any person to go to Hell Himself, by His own
Son's sacrificial death at the cross, even though
He knocks continually on the doors of their
heart and mind, and even though there are
people like me testifying and explaining that
the transformation from the carnal to the
born again spirit-filled nature is real, the
power of sin, its deception, its utter falseness
grabs hold of the individual, blinding them to
the truth because they themselves are so bent
and twisted by it (sin) that they will not hear
the truth, not one bit of it.

This is the only reason anyone will wind up
in Hell: they will not hear the truth because
sin and the sin nature has consumed them
unto death.

I used to think it was harsh for God to send
anyone to Hell, but now I see the full nature
of sin manifest... that it is a cancer upon His
creation, that it only destroys, seeks to destroy,
and that to the uttermost. Given that we are
all very powerful eternal beings, I categorically
agree with God that Hell is essential for all sin.
It is the only mechanism that can completely
seal in and isolate sin from the rest of His
creation. And what God teaches is true: the
only people who will ever ever ever go there
are those who up and down, front to back,
side to side, inside and out, refuse, absolutely
refuse, to hear the truth. Every other person
who will hear the truth is completely forgiven,
with every sin being taken away by Jesus'
death on the cross, and subsequent eternal
resurrection.

I agree with God that Hell is necessary to
contain sin, for all sin does is completely
destroy everything it touches, and Hell is
a place to continually destroy the individual,
the eternal being, who will not let go of sin,
who will not let go of the destructive nature.

As I say, I will remember each of you in my

prayers as the Lord brings you to my
remembrance.