Google home PowerMeter still being developed

Some Guy

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Dec 17, 2009, 9:12:32 PM12/17/09

to

We all know that google tries to discover, collect, organize and
re-distribute information from as many sources and devices as possible.

One little-known effort is Google PowerMeter:

http://www.google.org/powermeter/index.html

But that's not really the main point of my post. Which is this:

There is considerable debate around the world right now concerning
global warming and if, indeed, is is happening. There are controversies
regarding interpretation of published data, scandals, etc.

A little known fact is that much of the weather data collected over the
past 100 years is done by specific departments within national
governments - data which is closely guarded and generally not made
publically available for one reason: It can be sold and resold to
certain stake-holders who have an interest in weather and climate data.
Those stakeholders are insurance companies, farmers, commodities traders
and investors, etc.

As it turns out, there are very few climate scientists that have free
access to their own gov'ts weather data, and that access comes with
strict conditions. It's those conditions that are now largely
responsible for the fact that proper peer review of controversial or
important published papers can't be done by others within the wider
scientific community.

I propose that Google should investigate the idea or concept of
developing and marketing a low cost, internet-capable weather station
that, like the PowerMeter concept, would allow people to know their own
micro-climate in more detail as well as help to create what could be the
most comprehensive and accessible weather database ever assembled.

More creative implimentations of such a weather station might include
CO2, ozone, and other sensors beyond the standard temperature, humidity,
rainfall, air pressure and windspeed measurements. GPS recievers built
into the stations would allow for trouble-free and error-free geographic
indentification of where any given station is located - perhaps with the
ability to have user-selectable location resolution to maintain privacy
or anonymity.

These weather-station devices already exist from several vendors, and
initially google could offer a service and software to tie them together
to begin to build the database. Google could allow a user to select his
own weather station as input for special text or e-mail messages,
thereby allowing for remote monitoring of home conditions, etc. Family,
friends, or the whole world could be granted access to real-time and
historical weather data as presented by a user's iGoogle page.

But more importantly, google could act as a world-wide aggregator of
this information and (hopefully) provide the raw data to anyone who
wants it, free of charge, while at the same time (if they choose) to
analyze and re-package the information to specific market sectors as a
paid service.

Google could leverage this real-time data along with their considerable
computing power and programming talent by discovering relationships
between sensor data that would allow them to predict and forcast weather
conditions that might equal or exceed the accuracy of current weather
agencies. Google might offer these predictions for free to the general
public, or for a price to specific stake-holders or market segments.

This could be a really exciting and useful opportunity for Google and
individuals alike, and bring people together in a new and cooperative
way that could also help shape the future of climate policy and help
verify that climate and pollution targest are being met everywhere on
the planet.

Comments?

Commentator

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Dec 17, 2009, 9:30:43 PM12/17/09

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Some Guy wrote:

As soon as you suggested that this is yet something else that should flow
through Google, any value your suggestion may have held went to zero.

chuckcar

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Dec 18, 2009, 12:12:54 AM12/18/09

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Some Guy <So...@Guy.com> wrote in news:4B2AE510...@Guy.com:

> We all know that google tries to discover, collect, organize and
> re-distribute information from as many sources and devices as
> possible.
>
> One little-known effort is Google PowerMeter:
>
> http://www.google.org/powermeter/index.html
>
> But that's not really the main point of my post. Which is this:
>
> There is considerable debate around the world right now concerning
> global warming and if, indeed, is is happening. There are
> controversies regarding interpretation of published data, scandals,
> etc.
>
> A little known fact is that much of the weather data collected over
> the past 100 years is done by specific departments within national
> governments - data which is closely guarded and generally not made
> publically available for one reason: It can be sold and resold to
> certain stake-holders who have an interest in weather and climate
> data. Those stakeholders are insurance companies, farmers, commodities
> traders and investors, etc.
>
> As it turns out, there are very few climate scientists that have free
> access to their own gov'ts weather data, and that access comes with
> strict conditions. It's those conditions that are now largely
> responsible for the fact that proper peer review of controversial or
> important published papers can't be done by others within the wider
> scientific community.
>

Not exactly correct. There are plenty of other sources than 100 years of
readings of varying accuracy and time taken. Tree rings for one. There's
also other organic residue which are used. For proper climate
comparison, 100 years is barely useful if at all. The last time the
earth was like it is now or worse in terms of ice melt was 125.000 years
ago apparently. That's the sort of timespan you need. Trees give a
couple thousand years and from that you can generate other longer
duration methods and so on.

There are people doing amateur measurement of weather and reporting
already. making and selling such kits for people who don't actively
persue it on their own won't gain much useful data IMHO.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

robert roberts

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Jan 2, 2010, 4:18:20 PM1/2/10

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> I propose that Google should investigate the idea or concept of
> developing and marketing a low cost, internet-capable weather station
> that, like the PowerMeter concept, would allow people to know their own
> micro-climate in more detail as well as help to create what could be the
> most comprehensive and accessible weather database ever assembled.
>

If the governments are unwilling to release this information to the general
public, do you expect google to go against their wishes. Look at their
reaction to the Bejing situation when the government of the day wanted them
to limit their services to the public.

The only principle that governs Google is profit....

RickMerrill

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Jan 7, 2010, 7:32:17 AM1/7/10

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Some Guy wrote:
> We all know that google tries to discover, collect, organize and
> re-distribute information from as many sources and devices as possible.
>
> One little-known effort is Google PowerMeter:
>
> http://www.google.org/powermeter/index.html
>

<...>

Can we get back to PowerMeter please?

It sounds like a great aid to conserving the power we use. My electric
company, National Grid, is not on the list, but I think my meter
is remotely readable!

Are there (say, bluetooth) devices that you can read with PowerMeter so
you can get data around the house?

Are there any reports on the WWW from people using PowerMeter?

Some Guy

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Jan 7, 2010, 9:32:36 AM1/7/10

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RickMerrill wrote:

> Can we get back to PowerMeter please?
>
> It sounds like a great aid to conserving the power we use. My
> electric company, National Grid, is not on the list, but I think
> my meter is remotely readable!

The media has reported several cases in Ontario that these meters
generate spurious readings that have causes some people no end of grief
in dealing with Ontario Hydro or their local utility in trying to
resolve monthly bills that mysteriously go up by hundreds or thousands
of dollars.

I still have the old analog meter, and you can bet damn sure that if it
ever gets changed to an electronic one, that I'm going to install my own
measurment/logging device so I can be sure that I'm being billed
correctly.

> Are there (say, bluetooth) devices that you can read with
> PowerMeter so you can get data around the house?

There seems to be no standard when it comes to electronically or
remotely reading these meters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_meter_reading

There have also been security or hacking concerns regarding some of them
that use wifi technology (anywhere from being able to read your
neighbor's energy consumption to being able to tamper with the meter to
modify it's firmware, cause under or over-reporting of energy usage,
etc).

> Are there any reports on the WWW from people using PowerMeter?

None that I've seen.

Note this:

http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/smart-meters-not-so-smart-idea-for-residential-users/100117

------------------
However, the Toronto-based Energy Probe thinks the cost of deploying the
device outweighs its benefits, especially when used by low energy
consumers such as homeowners.

Depending on their features, Adams said, smart meters can cost anywhere
from $400 to $500 per unit. The OEB, however said, the price of each
unit is around $250 including management cost. The amount has been
rolled in with the special pricing rate smart meter users get, according
to the OED.

Adams said the average power consumption of Toronto residents is around
1,100 Kilowatt Hours (KwH) per month. "The real energy saving benefits
will likely be realized by users who consume around 3,000 KwH per month
or more." Power users at this level are usually businesses.

If used by households consuming 700 KwH per month, smart meters could
end up costing the government more, Adams pointed out. "The cost of
meter management using old meters is about 50 cents per unit. The cost
of management for smart meters can go up to $5 per unit."
------------------

RickMerrill

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Jan 7, 2010, 3:06:53 PM1/7/10

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> How Googleï¿½s PowerMeter Will Affect the Smart Meter Industry

> http://www.salon.com/tech/giga_om/clean_tech/2009/02/11/how_googles_powermeter_will_affect_the_smart_meter_industry/index.html?source=rss
>
> Smart meters coming to a utility near you
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10388171-54.html
>
> How to Read Your Smart Electric Meter
> http://www.sdge.com/smartmeter/readMeter.shtml
>
> Prepay energy meters 'still overcharging customers
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8383837.stm

Nice links. Thanks.

But a cheap smart meter with bluetooth readout can't be much
more costly than a bluetooth mouse ($15 USD)!

This would let the meter reader drive up and take a reading.
It would let your computer get a reading too.

The COSTLY designs are those that send signals back to the electric
company over their own wires!

Some Guy

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Jan 7, 2010, 8:09:39 PM1/7/10

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Full-Quoter RickMerrill wrote:

> But a cheap smart meter with bluetooth readout can't be much
> more costly than a bluetooth mouse ($15 USD)!

You have got to be kidding.

We're talking about a device that gets installed either in your main
circuit panel box or outside ahead of your main switch, in a weather
proof and vandal-proof enclosure. Do you actually think that something
like that is going to cost $15?

> This would let the meter reader drive up and take a reading.
> It would let your computer get a reading too.

Utility companies do not care if you the customer can read the meter
wirelessly from your own PC - and most likely did will not want you to
have that ability in the first place.

> The COSTLY designs are those that send signals back to the
> electric company over their own wires!

The cost comes in the guts of the meter, it's externally-visible display
and it's enclosure. The data communications part is going to be the
least expensive part.

RickMerrill

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Jan 8, 2010, 7:43:33 PM1/8/10

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Some Guy wrote:
> Full-Quoter RickMerrill wrote:
>
>> But a cheap smart meter with bluetooth readout can't be much
>> more costly than a bluetooth mouse ($15 USD)!
>
> You have got to be kidding.
>
> We're talking about a device that gets installed either in your main
> circuit panel box or outside ahead of your main switch, in a weather
> proof and vandal-proof enclosure. Do you actually think that something
> like that is going to cost $15?
>

Ok - I wasn't clear: it seems to me that the ADDITIONal cost
would be about that of a bt- mouse.

>> This would let the meter reader drive up and take a reading.
>> It would let your computer get a reading too.
>
> Utility companies do not care if you the customer can read the meter
> wirelessly from your own PC - and most likely did will not want you to
> have that ability in the first place.

Oh sure they would like to charge you for the privilege !-)

>> The COSTLY designs are those that send signals back to the
>> electric company over their own wires!
>
> The cost comes in the guts of the meter, it's externally-visible display
> and it's enclosure. The data communications part is going to be the
> least expensive part.

Ya, the meters do cost a lot, but to just ADD the communications can
be made cheep. We're assuming that the meter itself will inclose the
new bits and the the meter is already weatherproof. That better?

Google home PowerMeter still being developed - why not Google Weather?

Some Guy

Commentator

chuckcar

robert roberts

RickMerrill

Some Guy

RickMerrill

Some Guy

RickMerrill