visitor counts?

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Chris Stuart

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Mar 16, 1995, 11:50:13 AM3/16/95
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I've seen a perl script that counts the number of times someone visits
a web site. Is there something similar for the Mac?
--
Chris Stuart
Chris Stuart, Information Systems Manager
Center for the Environment, Cornell University
cs...@cornell.edu -or- (607) 255-3972

Martian

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Mar 16, 1995, 11:25:32 PM3/16/95
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cs...@cornell.edu (Chris Stuart) writes:

== I've seen a perl script that counts the number of times someone visits
==a web site. Is there something similar for the Mac?

I've no idea. :)


But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that? Is it just because
you saw it somewhere else and decided `neat, I want that too', or is
there a deeper mystery behind it? And if the former, what's so neat
about it? If I walk through a street, I never feel the urge to look
for a sign saying I am the 1278945th pedestrian since 15 June 1956
crossing the street.

BTW, anyone having a script that lists the names of all the people
visiting a page?

Abigail, boggled.

Patrick Wiseman

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Mar 17, 1995, 9:38:01 PM3/17/95
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abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl (Martian) asks an interesting question:
>
> cs...@cornell.edu (Chris Stuart) writes:
>
> == I've seen a perl script that counts the number of times someone visits
> ==a web site. Is there something similar for the Mac?
>
> I've no idea. :)
>
> But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
> it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that? Is it just because
> you saw it somewhere else and decided `neat, I want that too', or is
> there a deeper mystery behind it? And if the former, what's so neat
> about it? If I walk through a street, I never feel the urge to look
> for a sign saying I am the 1278945th pedestrian since 15 June 1956
> crossing the street.
>
which leaves
> Abigail, boggled.

I've created some pages, which I think are pretty neat, primarily for my
colleagues at work. I've given them the opportunity to fill out a feedback
form to tell me whether I've provided them with something useful; two people
from the outside world (i.e. not the colleagues to whom the question was
addressed) have filled out the form. So I guess a visitor count (whether
it's reported to the visitors or not) would at least reassure me that people
were dropping by! Perhaps, if you'd made the sidewalk, you'd like to know
that people were walking on it.

I won't know whether you did or not (since I'm not counting), but you could
visit those pages I mentioned:

http://www.gsu.edu/~lawadmn/gsulaw.html

I should warn you -- they're about law (and, no, the OJ trial isn't about
law, so there are _NO_ OJ links) and probably pretty boring to people _other_
than my colleagues!

Cheers
Patrick

--
Patrick Wiseman
http://www.mindspring.com/~pwiseman/wiseman.html


Kia Mennie

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Mar 18, 1995, 1:30:41 AM3/18/95
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abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl wrote:
> But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
> it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that? Is it just because
> you saw it somewhere else and decided `neat, I want that too', or is
> there a deeper mystery behind it? And if the former, what's so neat
> about it? If I walk through a street, I never feel the urge to look
> for a sign saying I am the 1278945th pedestrian since 15 June 1956
> crossing the street.

Yes, but you do now and then see people in lawn chairs at street
corners clicking counters, no?

I count the accesses to my page to see if it's being used [also with a
touch of `neat, I want that too']. Similarly, I browse through the
access logs to see _who_'s using the page - is it mostly people from
outside my domain; should I be careful about making references that
would confuse `non-locals'? And, more importantly, _what_'re they
looking at? If everybody visits section X but not section Z, I have a
better idea of what needs to be actively maintained.

<a href ="http://www.eng.carleton.ca/~kmennie">.</a><List-owner, ht_lit>
`...loathing the philistine West and looking to the East as the seat of
civilisation, from there looking back to the West with nostalgia and regret'

David SHERMAN

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Mar 18, 1995, 9:36:37 AM3/18/95
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kme...@ccs.carleton.ca (Kia Mennie) writes:
[...]

> I count the accesses to my page to see if it's being used [also with a
> touch of `neat, I want that too']. Similarly, I browse through the
> access logs to see _who_'s using the page - is it mostly people from
> outside my domain; should I be careful about making references that
> would confuse `non-locals'? And, more importantly, _what_'re they
> looking at? If everybody visits section X but not section Z, I have a
> better idea of what needs to be actively maintained.

Granted, but you could do this without showing the number on the page.
If fact most log analyzers report the number of accesses to a given
page without any further work on your part.

I think the question was, why do people put this kind of access-count
information *on the page*?
--

djs David J. Sherman (da...@LaBRI.U-Bordeaux.FR)
Laboratoire Bordelais de Recherche en Informatique

De l'incertitude profonde des desseins naît une étonnante
liberté de manoeuvre. --Anouilh, /Becket/, Acte III

Martian

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Mar 18, 1995, 6:26:33 AM3/18/95
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Patrick Wiseman <pwis...@mindspring.com> writes:

==abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl (Martian) asks an interesting question:
==>

==> cs...@cornell.edu (Chris Stuart) writes:
==>

==> == I've seen a perl script that counts the number of times someone visits
==> ==a web site. Is there something similar for the Mac?
==>
==> I've no idea. :)
==>
==> But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
==> it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that? Is it just because
==> you saw it somewhere else and decided `neat, I want that too', or is
==> there a deeper mystery behind it? And if the former, what's so neat
==> about it? If I walk through a street, I never feel the urge to look
==> for a sign saying I am the 1278945th pedestrian since 15 June 1956
==> crossing the street.
==>
==which leaves
==> Abigail, boggled.
==
==I've created some pages, which I think are pretty neat, primarily for my
==colleagues at work. I've given them the opportunity to fill out a feedback
==form to tell me whether I've provided them with something useful; two people
==from the outside world (i.e. not the colleagues to whom the question was
==addressed) have filled out the form. So I guess a visitor count (whether
==it's reported to the visitors or not) would at least reassure me that people
==were dropping by! Perhaps, if you'd made the sidewalk, you'd like to know
==that people were walking on it.

Yes, but that is what the access log does. It shows much more
information than just a visitors count. Those logs could be
interesting to you, I agree. My question is, why do people think that
telling someone (s)he is number X visiting the page is useful
information? How many people do read that information, and tell their
partner `Look, I'm the 1568th today visiting this page'?

Abigail, 142689th reader of this mornings newspaper.

lee s. bumgarner

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Mar 18, 1995, 12:20:53 PM3/18/95
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In <D5MI3...@cunews.carleton.ca> kme...@ccs.carleton.ca writes:
>
> I count the accesses to my page to see if it's being used [also with a
> touch of `neat, I want that too']. Similarly, I browse through the
> access logs to see _who_'s using the page - is it mostly people from
> outside my domain; should I be careful about making references that
> would confuse `non-locals'? And, more importantly, _what_'re they
> looking at? If everybody visits section X but not section Z, I have a
> better idea of what needs to be actively maintained.
This ablity to know *exactly* what someone looks like is going to be very
very sigificant down the road. Once old media starts to understand you can
do this, they are going probably going to have a very short learning curve when
it comes to "pulling people in."

I also expect the following to happen: all the main search/index/K00L sites
are going to be bought out very soon by the online services. The only way
they can make themselves a central part of the Web is to take these sites over
put them on *their* webpage and on their own computers for people within their
service. Then when you want to search http://www.yahoo.com , it will be on
say, http://www.microsoft.com or http://www.compuserv.com and a hotwired like
dohicky will come up where you have to "register" to use the "free" service.
They will thus know a little bit more about *who* makes up the Web and
thus be able to sell ads on the site easier.
-l


--lsbu...@jmu.edu * "Hey, I'm not just the master of the world, I'm the master
of my subdomain."--K * lee s. bumgarner * Keeper of the Great Renaming FAQ * ---

Kia Mennie

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Mar 18, 1995, 1:17:21 PM3/18/95
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da...@LaBRI.U-Bordeaux.FR wrote:
> I think the question was, why do people put this kind of access-count
> information *on the page*?
> --

True. Hmmm.
1. It's neat, and I wanted one too.
2. It's there to show off. Should I try to get a job writing
somebody's HTML for them, my resume can point them to a page with -
oh, look! XXXX # of accesses.
3. It's an acceptable defense. `But why do you waste your time doing
that?' `Well, _somebody_ finds it useful; see here...'
4. It's neat, and....

Martian

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Mar 18, 1995, 6:16:47 PM3/18/95
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kme...@ccs.carleton.ca (Kia Mennie) writes:

==abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl wrote:
==> But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
==> it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that? Is it just because
==> you saw it somewhere else and decided `neat, I want that too', or is
==> there a deeper mystery behind it? And if the former, what's so neat
==> about it? If I walk through a street, I never feel the urge to look
==> for a sign saying I am the 1278945th pedestrian since 15 June 1956
==> crossing the street.

==Yes, but you do now and then see people in lawn chairs at street
==corners clicking counters, no?

Certainly. But I've yet to meet the first one telling me how many went
ahead of me.

Mind, I'm not claiming one should not include such information, I'm
just curious why people are doing it.


Abigail

Marcus Edward Hennecke

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Mar 20, 1995, 1:28:27 PM3/20/95
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In article <D5nEs...@cunews.carleton.ca>,

Kia Mennie <kme...@ccs.carleton.ca> wrote:
>da...@LaBRI.U-Bordeaux.FR wrote:
>> I think the question was, why do people put this kind of access-count
>> information *on the page*?
>1. It's neat, and I wanted one too.
>2. It's there to show off. Should I try to get a job writing
>somebody's HTML for them, my resume can point them to a page with -
>oh, look! XXXX # of accesses.
>3. It's an acceptable defense. `But why do you waste your time doing
>that?' `Well, _somebody_ finds it useful; see here...'
>4. It's neat, and....

5. If you're doing it via server-side includes, it gives you the
opportunity to do some extra logging that the server doesn't do
normally. For example, I log the HTTP_REFERER environment variable to
find out where people got the URL from. Or you could log the browser
name. Of course, you still don't *have* to display the actual visitor
count in the page to do that.
--
Marcus E. Hennecke
mar...@leland.stanford.edu http://www.crc.ricoh.com/~marcush/
For FAQs first check ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/<name.of.newsgroup>

Jason C. MacDonald

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Mar 20, 1995, 6:41:18 PM3/20/95
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cs...@cornell.edu (Chris Stuart) writes:


Does anyone have the perl scripts for the counts this guy is talking about. I
would like to have a copy of it.


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Perry Donham

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Mar 21, 1995, 3:04:05 PM3/21/95
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In article <1995Mar18....@mars.ic.iaf.nl>,


Martian <abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl> wrote:
>
>Mind, I'm not claiming one should not include such information, I'm
>just curious why people are doing it.

I publish stories submitted by children on my web server, and use a
counter to let the kids know how often their story has been read. A
counter on the home page lets me take a quick check of activity without
having to bring up the server statistics.


Perry Donham
http://www.en-garde.com
Finger don...@en-garde.com for public PGP key
Visit KidPub! http://www.en-garde.com/kidpub

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--

Liz Farrell

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Mar 21, 1995, 7:23:57 PM3/21/95
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The Easter Egg hunt was a good use of visitor counts.
You could tell how inept or adept you were by
your number...

Liz


Paul G. Russell

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Mar 21, 1995, 10:11:22 AM3/21/95
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In article <1995Mar18....@mars.ic.iaf.nl> abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl (Martian) writes:
>From: abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl (Martian)
>Subject: Re: Why visitor counts? (Was Re: visitor counts?)
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 23:16:47 GMT

>kme...@ccs.carleton.ca (Kia Mennie) writes:

From a business standpoint, there are a couple of reasons I can think of
keeping these types of statistics:

1. continued funding can be predicated upon demostration of continued use

2. multiple presentation formats can be evaluated by comparing the usage of
two separate sets of advertised pages with similar content but different
formats. Theoretically, the pages that are the most "user friendy"
(easiest to navigate, best performance, etc.) should, over time, have the
highest usage.

3. environmental tuning (CPU size, Bandwidth, etc.); knowing what your volume
over time is (particularly if you can also measure peak time usage) should be
invaluable in determining when it is necessary to upgrage hardware,
communications capabilities, etc.

For purely personal pages, I can't see any real value except for "ego"
purposes -- i.e., I might get satisfaction from the fact that 300 people a day
access my home page (though usage in know way reflects whether or not they
liked what they saw).

Just my $0.02 worth.

Regards,
Paul

Paul Russell
AT&T GIS Worldwide Services,
Quality and Operational Planning
Dayton, OH
email: paul.r...@daytonoh.attgis.com

Mark Koenen

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Mar 21, 1995, 7:54:16 PM3/21/95
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910...@dragon.acadiau.ca (Jason C. MacDonald) writes:

> Does anyone have the perl scripts for the counts this guy is talking
>about. I would like to have a copy of it.

I'd advise some links to take a look at:

o http://www.eit.com/software/getstats/getstats.html
It's not in Perl, but in C. Getstats offers a great deal
of options and is widely-used.

o http://www.sci.kun.nl/thalia/guide/README.html
This is a Perl-script I wrote: it generates a page which
shows the number of accesses to a certain page. When you are
dealing with large log-files it takes quite some time to
generate the page, so it should be used just once a day or
something.

o http://www.best.com/~dls/software.html
A Perl-script by Daniel Smith (d...@best.com) which allows
you to include dynamically the number of visits of a page.
It doesn't access the log-file and is fast enough to check
the number of visits when the request for the page is done.

Hope you find what you're looking for,
Mark.

--
Name: Mark Koenen E-mail: mar...@sci.kun.nl
WWW: http://www.kun.nl/uci/who_en.html IRC: TheNose on #nose

Frank Pilhofer

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Mar 23, 1995, 4:00:36 AM3/23/95
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In <D5tH6...@sci.kun.nl> mar...@sci.kun.nl (Mark Koenen) writes:

>I'd advise some links to take a look at:
> o http://www.eit.com/software/getstats/getstats.html

> o http://www.sci.kun.nl/thalia/guide/README.html
> o http://www.best.com/~dls/software.html

I'd like to add some advertisement for my own program. It's still in its
development stages, but has a load of features, like:

o reads daily logfiles, and immensely speeds up reporting by only
scanning the needed files.
o ability to create online statistics (hence it's name, Olista). You
enter search criteria in a form.
o you can 'browse' your reports. Click on any item 'zooms' into your
logfile data.
o right now I'm working on a offline part (from the command line) to
create reports in conjunction with cron. it seems to work now, though
I'm a bit back with documenting everything.
o if you generate a 'file listing' report, you can arrange that each
item is actually a link to the page it is reporting.
o more is on its way.
o Documentation is at http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~fp/Tools/Olista.html

Have fun, and tell me what you think,
Frank

--
+ Frank Pilhofer f...@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de +
| Darmstaedter Str. 22 http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~fp/ |
| D-63225 Langen, Germany RAD Host |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Gary D. Shapiro

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Mar 26, 1995, 4:02:39 AM3/26/95
to
I show a visitor count because it was the only way I knew to count visitors.
When I asked my local advisor how to show a visitor count, I was told about

<!--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/counterord"-->

When I asked how to count visitors without displaying it I got no reply.
--
Gary D. Shapiro <gsha...@rain.org> http://www.rain.org/~gshapiro/
-->> -> -->> -> Is using one's turn signal an act of random kindness?

Martian

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Mar 26, 1995, 3:48:03 PM3/26/95
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gsha...@rain.org (Gary D. Shapiro) writes:

==I show a visitor count because it was the only way I knew to count visitors.
==When I asked my local advisor how to show a visitor count, I was told about
==
== <!--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/counterord"-->
^^^ Never knew that was valid.

==When I asked how to count visitors without displaying it I got no reply.

Try grep "your/page/some/where" /access/log/file/of/http/deamon | wc -l

Abigail

J.William Moore

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Mar 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM3/30/95
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In article <1995Mar17.0...@mars.ic.iaf.nl>, abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl
(Martian) wrote:

> cs...@cornell.edu (Chris Stuart) writes:
>
> == I've seen a perl script that counts the number of times someone visits
> ==a web site. Is there something similar for the Mac?
>
> I've no idea. :)
>
>
> But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
> it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that?
>

> Abigail, boggled.


Let me enter the fray here and give you a former *junk mail* writer's
perspective on this. The appeal of the Net to a marketer is the fact that
you can know something about the people who are accessing your
information. A servers logs are a priceless jewel in terms of the
information that can be gleaned from them.

In the print and broadcast worlds you have to reply on highly questionable
statistical methods and surveys to get a "rough" estimate of who's seeing
your message (e.g. print ad in magazine or radio/tv spot). Of course a
server's logs won't give you the name, address, sex, or phone number of
the "customer" (that's the term Liu, Peek, Jones, Buus, Nye use in
"Managing Internet Information Services"), but it can tell you
approximately where they are located, more importantly they can tell you
what they looked at, when and for how long. Counting the number of
accesses only helps clarify the matter a little more.... and is reassuring
to a client who wants to know that you're little server is getting used.

This is the reality of why the net is so attractive to the commercial
sector and why if I were in the newspaper classified ads business or
selling radio spots, I'd start learning something about computers!

Then there's the whole environmental issue.... delivering the very same
information I used to put in "junk mail" and not chopping down a single
tree for the pulp or consuming an ounce of toxic ink, or seeing 98% of it
end up in landfills without ever being opened!

May I should clarify the statement "very same information" because in
fact, I wouldn't put that information on the net unless it conveyed true
informational value as opposed to the "hype" and "double-talk" I used to
have to write.

So, numbers are very important if you are going to try and run a
profitable service... though I wouldn't display them on the page, either.

My zwei pfennig...... bis spater!

Bill

--
J. William Moore, Pres. Il Doge
Access Internet Resources, Inc.
1257 Golden Gate Drive, Suite 10 "There are more things in
Papillion, NE 68046 heaven and earth, Oh Horatio"

<a href="http://www.synergy.net/Piazza/menu.html>A Renaissance Marketplace on the WorldWideWeb</a>

Martian

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Mar 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM3/31/95
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do...@synergy.net (J.William Moore) writes:

==In article <1995Mar17.0...@mars.ic.iaf.nl>, abi...@mars.ic.iaf.nl
==(Martian) wrote:

==> cs...@cornell.edu (Chris Stuart) writes:
==>

==> == I've seen a perl script that counts the number of times someone visits
==> ==a web site. Is there something similar for the Mac?
==>
==> But I've heard so many request for programs giving visit counts, that
==> it makes me wonder, why does everyone want that?
==>

[ Reasons why accounting is useful ]

==So, numbers are very important if you are going to try and run a
==profitable service... though I wouldn't display them on the page, either.


I certainly agree numbers can be important. And the various programs
doing statistic on logs provided a lot of information. But is still
doesn't answer my question. Why is it shown on the page? Why does
everyone think the *reader* of the page is interested in the
information?


Abigail (who encounters *less* counters after first raising the question.)

Gary D. Shapiro

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Apr 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM4/1/95
to
> I certainly agree numbers can be important. And the various programs
> doing statistic on logs provided a lot of information. But is still
> doesn't answer my question. Why is it shown on the page? Why does
> everyone think the *reader* of the page is interested in the
> information?
>
>
> Abigail (who encounters *less* counters after first raising the question.)

I, the page author, am interested in the visitor count. And the only way
to do that that I know is to use some code the local system weenies gave
me to insert into the HTML document that happens to put the count right on
the rendered page. I've seen other methods referenced here but none that
I could make work in my environment. Maybe if I tried harder, but what I
have now works, so how much effort is it worth?

My ISP doesn't give us users access to any C compilers.

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