Displaying acronym text to the left of the acronym

[Larry Martell]

The text associated with an acronym displays to the right of acronym. The Is there any way to get the acronym text to display to the left of the acronym?

[dorayme]

In article <81fe3964-c050-4fe0...@googlegroups.com>,

Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:

> The text associated with an acronym displays to the right of acronym. The Is
> there any way to get the acronym text to display to the left of the acronym?

Yes. Depending on the markup, you can usually switch a couple of
things around, or change the styling to achieve this.

--
dorayme

[Larry Martell]

Do you know how I would do that?

[dorayme]

In article <b7306b33-9d54-4462...@googlegroups.com>,

Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, April 22, 2013 5:41:28 PM UTC-6, dorayme wrote:
> > In article <81fe3964-c050-4fe0...@googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > The text associated with an acronym displays to the right of acronym. The
> > > Is
> >
> > > there any way to get the acronym text to display to the left of the
> > > acronym?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes. Depending on the markup, you can usually switch a couple of
> >
> > things around, or change the styling to achieve this.
>
> Do you know how I would do that?

Yes, but I was thinking you might offer the markup you say makes the
"text associated with an acronym displays to the right of acronym" and
we can go from there.

--
dorayme

[Larry Martell]

It's very basic and simple. Here's a fiddle that shows an example of what I have:

http://jsfiddle.net/BmKAv/

The text starts in the middle of the acronym and goes out to the right. I'd like to end where it's currently starting.

Thanks!

[dorayme]

In article <36a52bf1-4af3-4b18...@googlegroups.com>,

Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, April 22, 2013 6:11:53 PM UTC-6, dorayme wrote:
> > In article <b7306b33-9d54-4462...@googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> >
> > > Do you know how I would do that?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, but I was thinking you might offer the markup you say makes the
> > "text associated with an acronym displays to the right of acronym" and
> > we can go from there.
>
> It's very basic and simple. Here's a fiddle that shows an example of what I
> have:
>
> http://jsfiddle.net/BmKAv/
>
> The text starts in the middle of the acronym and goes out to the right. I'd
> like to end where it's currently starting.
>

We need to assume for this that the acronym is somewhere to the right
of the left of the viewport and there be sufficient room for the
explanation to fit to its left. How robust are such assumptions? If
you are confident, then something like this might do it:

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/hoveringExplanation1.html>

--
dorayme

[tlvp]

I'm puzzled. What I see, in Safari, is the acronym flush against the left
margin of the cell it's in. No other text at all ... until I bring the
cursor (an arrow) into range of the acronym; and then, once the cursor's
arrow-head is pointing at a character in the acronym, a little question
mark appears to the right of the tail of the arrow, and a tool-tip appears,
directly under that tail, and extending to the right, containing the
acronym's expansion.

Where else should the acronym's expansion appear? there's no room any
further to the left, for the acronym itself is already as far to the left
(within its cell) as anything can be.

Am I missing something? Have you explained the entire problem clearly?

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[Jukka K. Korpela]

2013-04-23 4:21, Larry Martell wrote:

> It's very basic and simple.

I’m not so sure about the question, but the answer is very basic and
simple: don't use the acronym element. It’s hostile to accessibility,
especially since it makes authors think they can put the expansion of an
abbreviation or an acronym in a title attribute and be done with it. The
result is that a cryptic expression appears in the text, instead of
being plainly explained in the text.

The HTML5 CR declares acronym as obsolete. The acronym element never had
a satisfactory definition, because "acronym" means different things to
different people. And it causes an odd dotted underline (actually,
bottom border), which is too unnoticeable and too disturbing at the same
time.

> Here's a fiddle that shows an example of what I have:
>
> http://jsfiddle.net/BmKAv/
>
> The text starts in the middle of the acronym and goes out to the right. I'd like to end where it's currently starting.

If you rely on browsers’ handling of title attributes, you are at the
mercy of browsers. Those “tooltips” are not something describable in
HTML, or even CSS, but just poor browser behavior triggered by the use
of title="..." attributes.

Modern “tooltips” are constructed with CSS (and possibly JavaScript),
not with those boxes that show for a few seconds some text in a tiny
font. But instead of tooltips, just write as you would in normal prose
if you were writing plain text:

“TWAIN” stands for “Technology Without An Interest.” TWAIN is…

When writing an HTML document, you need not be more obscure than you
would be in plain text, or speech.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

[Swifty]

On 23/04/2013 05:38, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> just write as you would in normal prose if you were writing plain text:
>
> “TWAIN” stands for “Technology Without An Interest.” TWAIN is…

It is considered common courtesy to define the first use of an acronym
in a document, and your suggestion is one way to do that. More usual,
perhaps, would be: TWAIN (Technology Without An Interestin Name)

I suspect that the <ACRONYM> tag was intended to be used on subsequent
occurences of the acronym. I certainly find such use very helpful.

I just wish that my Kindle would do something similar with the names of
characters in the novels that I read. I often have to maintain an
external reference of the characters, as my brain doesn't seem to handle
this function any more.

--
Steve Swift
http://www.swiftys.org.uk/

[Larry Martell]

On Monday, April 22, 2013 10:05:07 PM UTC-6, dorayme wrote:
> In article <36a52bf1-4af3-4b18...@googlegroups.com>,
>
> Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, April 22, 2013 6:11:53 PM UTC-6, dorayme wrote:
> > > In article <b7306b33-9d54-4462...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Larry Martell <larry....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Do you know how I would do that?
>
> > > Yes, but I was thinking you might offer the markup you say makes the
> > > "text associated with an acronym displays to the right of acronym" and
> > > we can go from there.
>
> > It's very basic and simple. Here's a fiddle that shows an example of what I
> > have:
> >
> > http://jsfiddle.net/BmKAv/
> >
> > The text starts in the middle of the acronym and goes out to the right. I'd
> > like to end where it's currently starting.
>
> We need to assume for this that the acronym is somewhere to the right
> of the left of the viewport and there be sufficient room for the
> explanation to fit to its left. How robust are such assumptions?

The problem I was asked to solve is that if the user has resized their window the acronym text could flow off the page. My client would like it to always be visible. They suggested displaying it to the left of the acronym instead of the right.

> If you are confident, then something like this might do it:
>
> <http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/hoveringExplanation1.html>

I appreciate the help, but my situation was a lot more complicated then I initially realized. There are aria-describedby properties and javascript code involved. After searching through the markup and the code for 2 hours I eventually found a place that had this:

$('.help').qtip({
position: {
my: 'bottom left',
at: 'top right'
},

I change the bottom left to bottom right, and I got exactly what I wanted. But your proposed solution got me going - thanks very much.

[Martin Leese]

Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
...

> The HTML5 CR declares acronym as obsolete.

While this is true, the standard also
suggests using <abbr> instead. And <abbr>
can still take a title attribute. Therefore,
<acronym> has not gone away; it has merely
been transformed.

Your advice to avoid <acronym> also applies
to <abbr>.

--
Regards,
Martin Leese
E-mail: ple...@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

[Jukka K. Korpela]

2013-04-23 16:56, Martin Leese wrote:

> Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> ...
>> The HTML5 CR declares acronym as obsolete.
>
> While this is true, the standard also
> suggests using <abbr> instead. And <abbr>
> can still take a title attribute. Therefore,
> <acronym> has not gone away; it has merely
> been transformed.

Well, yes, or unified. Initially, some browsers invented <abbr>, some
other browsers invented <acronym>, and there was never any real
definition of the difference. Now HTML5 proposes to kick <acronym> out
and tell everyone to use <abbr> instead. But...

> Your advice to avoid <acronym> also applies
> to <abbr>.

... indeed they have the same basic problems. So does even <span>, when
used with title="..." relying on some tooltip effect.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

[abc19...@gmail.com]