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DIV on top of all framesets
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Test
Oct 2, 2012, 2:57:01 PM10/2/12
to
My page is divided into three framesets.
In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the other
framesets also. Is this possible?
In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the other
framesets also. Is this possible?
David Stone
Oct 2, 2012, 3:46:44 PM10/2/12
to
In article <ppdm689nu946tppk6...@4ax.com>,
Technically yes, by invoking appropriate CSS on the div. But it might
well be easier to achieve what you want by NOT using framesets in the
first place! Although framesets are allowed in the html 4 transitional
and frameset DTDs, they aren't part of either html 4 strict or - from
what I can see - html 5. (Instead, use divs, objects, and/or iframes.)
So, what is it you are actually trying to achieve?
well be easier to achieve what you want by NOT using framesets in the
first place! Although framesets are allowed in the html 4 transitional
and frameset DTDs, they aren't part of either html 4 strict or - from
what I can see - html 5. (Instead, use divs, objects, and/or iframes.)
So, what is it you are actually trying to achieve?
Osmo Saarikumpu
Oct 2, 2012, 11:50:18 PM10/2/12
to
On 2.10.2012 22:46, David Stone wrote:
> ... Although framesets are allowed in the html 4 transitional
frameset DTD would be even more superfluous if framesets would be
allowed in both versions.
--
Best wishes, Osmo
> ... Although framesets are allowed in the html 4 transitional
> and frameset DTDs, they aren't part of either html 4 strict or - from
> what I can see - html 5.
JFTR: framesets are not allowed in html 4 transitional. I guess that the
> what I can see - html 5.
frameset DTD would be even more superfluous if framesets would be
allowed in both versions.
--
Best wishes, Osmo
dorayme
Oct 4, 2012, 4:51:39 PM10/4/12
to
In article <k4gcld$ead$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
HTML frames allow authors to present documents in multiple views,
which may be independent windows or subwindows....
Here is a simple frame document:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>A simple frameset document</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
<FRAMESET rows="100, 200">
<FRAME src="contents_of_frame1.html">
<FRAME src="contents_of_frame2.gif">
</FRAMESET>
..."
from <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html>
--
dorayme
Osmo Saarikumpu <os...@weppipakki.com> wrote:
> JFTR: framesets are not allowed in html 4 transitional
"16.1 Introduction to frames
> JFTR: framesets are not allowed in html 4 transitional
HTML frames allow authors to present documents in multiple views,
which may be independent windows or subwindows....
Here is a simple frame document:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>A simple frameset document</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<FRAMESET cols="20%, 80%">
<FRAMESET rows="100, 200">
<FRAME src="contents_of_frame1.html">
<FRAME src="contents_of_frame2.gif">
</FRAMESET>
..."
from <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html>
--
dorayme
dorayme
Oct 4, 2012, 4:56:30 PM10/4/12
to
In article
<no.email-4BC627...@news.eternal-september.org>,
OP probably means three frames in a frameset. Intuitively if not also
formally, a frame is an island unto itself, it has its own
as-vast-as-needed area, scrollbars coming up to negotiate its
territory. The frames do not overlap and neither do the contents of
the frames, at least not visually in 2-D.
--
dorayme
<no.email-4BC627...@news.eternal-september.org>,
David Stone <no.e...@domain.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ppdm689nu946tppk6...@4ax.com>,
> Test <test@.nil.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > My page is divided into three framesets.
> > In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the other
> > framesets also. Is this possible?
>
> Technically yes, by invoking appropriate CSS on the div.
Be interesting to see a stab at this 'technical possibility'?
> In article <ppdm689nu946tppk6...@4ax.com>,
> Test <test@.nil.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > My page is divided into three framesets.
> > In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the other
> > framesets also. Is this possible?
>
> Technically yes, by invoking appropriate CSS on the div.
OP probably means three frames in a frameset. Intuitively if not also
formally, a frame is an island unto itself, it has its own
as-vast-as-needed area, scrollbars coming up to negotiate its
territory. The frames do not overlap and neither do the contents of
the frames, at least not visually in 2-D.
--
dorayme
Jukka K. Korpela
Oct 4, 2012, 5:03:33 PM10/4/12
to
2012-10-04 23:51, dorayme wrote:
> In article <k4gcld$ead$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Osmo Saarikumpu <os...@weppipakki.com> wrote:
>
>> JFTR: framesets are not allowed in html 4 transitional
[...]
> In article <k4gcld$ead$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Osmo Saarikumpu <os...@weppipakki.com> wrote:
>
>> JFTR: framesets are not allowed in html 4 transitional
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
So? The DTD referenced is HTML 4.01 Frameset, implicitly proving Osmo's
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
point (which can be formally checked by looking at the HTML 4.01
Transitional DTD and verifying that it does contain the FRAMESET element).
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
dorayme
Oct 4, 2012, 5:26:05 PM10/4/12
to
In article <k4ktj2$55k$1...@dont-email.me>,
I would never contradict Osmo. It was an example of what was used by
the most competent of frames designers a few centuries ago who
generally worked under 4 transitional.
--
dorayme
the most competent of frames designers a few centuries ago who
generally worked under 4 transitional.
--
dorayme
Message has been deleted
dorayme
Oct 4, 2012, 6:05:10 PM10/4/12
to
In article <timstreater-4615...@news.individual.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <dorayme-71D947...@news.albasani.net>,
> And I'm using a frameset with the HTML5 doctype. Any reason why I
> shouldn't? Other than religious reasons, that is.
Depends on what you are doing. I have always been tolerant of frames
but they do have significant downsides. But if the downsides do not
affect your purpose and you are not comfortable with alternative CSS
styling ways then go right ahead.
Downsides include problems with bookmarking, search engines, small
screens, probably screen readers (haven't these enough problems
already? <g>), people landing on the frames themselves (making some
contextual puzzles for them).
--
dorayme
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <dorayme-71D947...@news.albasani.net>,
> shouldn't? Other than religious reasons, that is.
Depends on what you are doing. I have always been tolerant of frames
but they do have significant downsides. But if the downsides do not
affect your purpose and you are not comfortable with alternative CSS
styling ways then go right ahead.
Downsides include problems with bookmarking, search engines, small
screens, probably screen readers (haven't these enough problems
already? <g>), people landing on the frames themselves (making some
contextual puzzles for them).
--
dorayme
Jukka K. Korpela
Oct 5, 2012, 3:30:59 AM10/5/12
to
2012-10-05 0:35, Tim Streater wrote:
> And I'm using a frameset with the HTML5 doctype. Any reason why I
> shouldn't? Other than religious reasons, that is.
Well, is there any reason that you should? Other than making the doctype
> And I'm using a frameset with the HTML5 doctype. Any reason why I
> shouldn't? Other than religious reasons, that is.
short, that is.
There is a reason why you shouldn't: when you try validate, you will see
whining like "The frameset element is obsolete. Use the iframe element
and CSS instead, or use server-side includes." This means that it will
be more difficult to see any real markup errors. However, frameset
documents tend to be small. Besides, you can use doctype override.
Regarding the question about any reason you should, I was very recently
shocked by this remark about support to the formnovalidate attribute in
Chrome:
"5.0 (in 6.0 only worked with HTML5 doctype, validation support in 7.0
was disabled and re-enabled in 10.0)"
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/HTML/Element/input
The specific incident is old, and you won't probably be using such an
attribute in a frameset document (it could appear in the noframes
section, but that section is just for "Get yourself a new browser, and a
life!" content, isn't it?). But it is a serious symptoms of the
mutability of the "doctype sniffing" disease - and the first case known
to me where browser support to HTML5 features has depended on the use of
the specific "HTML5 doctype" <!doctype html>.
So I guess there's a point in using <!doctype html> whenever your page
contains any HTML5 novelties, just to be "sure" (that is, marginally
less uncertain).
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Osmo Saarikumpu
Oct 5, 2012, 4:17:50 AM10/5/12
to
On 2.10.2012 21:57, Test wrote:
> My page is divided into three framesets.
Hopefully not.
> My page is divided into three framesets.
> In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the other
> framesets also.
frameset with three frames?
> Is this possible?
Probabaly with JavaScript, but it's not very practicable.
But your subject line says: "DIV on top of all framesets", which would
be slightly more feasible. That being the case, I guess that you would
need an extra page that contains:
1) an iframe that invokes the frameset
2) the div to be positioned on top of the frames
Quick demo:
http://weppipakki.com/demo/divoverframes/
--
Best wishes,
Osmo
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
David Stone
Oct 5, 2012, 9:36:57 AM10/5/12
to
In article <dorayme-9E0514...@news.albasani.net>,
removing the div from its frameset. This, of course, will likely
break other aspects of the page, which is why I suggested looking
into alternatives to three framesets. I notice that the OP doesn't
seem to have returned, though?
> OP probably means three frames in a frameset. Intuitively if not also
> formally, a frame is an island unto itself, it has its own
> as-vast-as-needed area, scrollbars coming up to negotiate its
> territory. The frames do not overlap and neither do the contents of
> the frames, at least not visually in 2-D.
Hmm, hadn't consider the implication of "three framesets" meaning
"three frames". You're probably right but, for all we know, the OP
might have had three framesets each containing a single frame!
I suspect we will never know...
dorayme <dor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> In article
> <no.email-4BC627...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> David Stone <no.e...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In article <ppdm689nu946tppk6...@4ax.com>,
> > Test <test@.nil.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> > > My page is divided into three framesets.
> > > In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the
> > > other
> > > framesets also. Is this possible?
> >
> > Technically yes, by invoking appropriate CSS on the div.
>
> Be interesting to see a stab at this 'technical possibility'?
I was thinking a mixture of positioning and z-index - effectively
> In article
> <no.email-4BC627...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> David Stone <no.e...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In article <ppdm689nu946tppk6...@4ax.com>,
> > Test <test@.nil.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> > > My page is divided into three framesets.
> > > In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the
> > > other
> > > framesets also. Is this possible?
> >
> > Technically yes, by invoking appropriate CSS on the div.
>
> Be interesting to see a stab at this 'technical possibility'?
removing the div from its frameset. This, of course, will likely
break other aspects of the page, which is why I suggested looking
into alternatives to three framesets. I notice that the OP doesn't
seem to have returned, though?
> OP probably means three frames in a frameset. Intuitively if not also
> formally, a frame is an island unto itself, it has its own
> as-vast-as-needed area, scrollbars coming up to negotiate its
> territory. The frames do not overlap and neither do the contents of
> the frames, at least not visually in 2-D.
"three frames". You're probably right but, for all we know, the OP
might have had three framesets each containing a single frame!
I suspect we will never know...
Warren Oates
Oct 5, 2012, 9:40:12 AM10/5/12
to
In article <timstreater-BA7A...@news.individual.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> What I'd like is a general way to divide a viewport into some areas with
> moveable borders between them. I could imagine doing that with <div>s
> but those buggers have a nasty habit of rearranging *themselves* without
> so much as a by-your-leave.
I know this isn't what you mean, but:
http://www.css3.info/preview/resize/
--
... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> What I'd like is a general way to divide a viewport into some areas with
> moveable borders between them. I could imagine doing that with <div>s
> but those buggers have a nasty habit of rearranging *themselves* without
> so much as a by-your-leave.
I know this isn't what you mean, but:
http://www.css3.info/preview/resize/
--
... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child
Barry Margolin
Oct 5, 2012, 11:17:28 AM10/5/12
to
In article <timstreater-BA7A...@news.individual.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <dorayme-333F5A...@news.albasani.net>,
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <dorayme-333F5A...@news.albasani.net>,
> dorayme <dor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Depends on what you are doing. I have always been tolerant of frames
> > but they do have significant downsides. But if the downsides do not
> > affect your purpose and you are not comfortable with alternative CSS
> > styling ways then go right ahead.
>
>
> > Depends on what you are doing. I have always been tolerant of frames
> > but they do have significant downsides. But if the downsides do not
> > affect your purpose and you are not comfortable with alternative CSS
> > styling ways then go right ahead.
>
> What I'd like is a general way to divide a viewport into some areas with
> moveable borders between them. I could imagine doing that with <div>s
> but those buggers have a nasty habit of rearranging *themselves* without
> so much as a by-your-leave.
jsfiddle.net seems to do it pretty successfully using DIVs.
> moveable borders between them. I could imagine doing that with <div>s
> but those buggers have a nasty habit of rearranging *themselves* without
> so much as a by-your-leave.
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
Message has been deleted
dorayme
Oct 5, 2012, 7:02:51 PM10/5/12
to
In article <506ee340$0$1847$c3e8da3$dbd...@news.astraweb.com>,
Leopard does not support it. In fact, overall, it has very patchy
support among browsers. Still, Chrome, Safari and Firefox are good.
I have been using a facility (in my Safari) made by a bloke called
Christian H�ltje for resizing (the almost invariably miserable) text
fields that authors provide for user input. Called "It's All Text!".
An extension, and very useful.
--
dorayme
Warren Oates <warren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <timstreater-BA7A...@news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
> > What I'd like is a general way to divide a viewport into some areas with
> > moveable borders between them. I could imagine doing that with <div>s
> > but those buggers have a nasty habit of rearranging *themselves* without
> > so much as a by-your-leave.
>
> I know this isn't what you mean, but:
>
> http://www.css3.info/preview/resize/
A brilliant facility, I notice that the latest Opera for a Mac on Snow
> In article <timstreater-BA7A...@news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
> > What I'd like is a general way to divide a viewport into some areas with
> > moveable borders between them. I could imagine doing that with <div>s
> > but those buggers have a nasty habit of rearranging *themselves* without
> > so much as a by-your-leave.
>
> I know this isn't what you mean, but:
>
> http://www.css3.info/preview/resize/
Leopard does not support it. In fact, overall, it has very patchy
support among browsers. Still, Chrome, Safari and Firefox are good.
I have been using a facility (in my Safari) made by a bloke called
Christian H�ltje for resizing (the almost invariably miserable) text
fields that authors provide for user input. Called "It's All Text!".
An extension, and very useful.
--
dorayme
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
Oct 6, 2012, 2:58:20 AM10/6/12
to
Osmo Saarikumpu wrote:
> On 2.10.2012 21:57, Test wrote:
>> My page is divided into three framesets.
>
> Hopefully not.
>
>> In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the
>> other framesets also.
>
> Framesets should not contain divs. Perhaps you mean that you have a
> frameset with three frames?
>
>> Is this possible?
>
> Probabaly with JavaScript, but it's not very practicable.
I do not see how it could be probably possible to do this with client-side
> On 2.10.2012 21:57, Test wrote:
>> My page is divided into three framesets.
>
> Hopefully not.
>
>> In one of the framesets there is a div that should display across the
>> other framesets also.
>
> Framesets should not contain divs. Perhaps you mean that you have a
> frameset with three frames?
>
>> Is this possible?
>
> Probabaly with JavaScript, but it's not very practicable.
scripting. You could create a `div' element object but to which node would
you append the element node as child node? Consider your previous statement
(which needs to be changed to "… MUST NOT contain … ").
PointedEars
--
Danny Goodman's books are out of date and teach practices that are
positively harmful for cross-browser scripting.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <cife6q$253$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk> (2004)
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