DIGEST: Visix Galaxy or Ilog Views?
Arnaud.Buisine
Hi all,
I posted the following request a few weeks ago.
> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:02:16 -0500
> From: bui...@vdr.mcs-vdr.fr (Arnaud.Buisine)
> Subject: Question: Visix Galaxy or Ilog Views?
>
> Hi!
>
> We are working on multiagent-based models for the
> design of GUI (MVC or PAC-like models). We're planning to develop
> a product that dissociates the presentation/interaction
> component (that is the visible part of the GUI), the
> dialog controller and the functionnal core (Seeheim model)
> of the application.
>
> This product will generate C/C++ code that will have
> to be linked to GUI libraries. Moreover, we will have
> to use a GUI builder.
>
> We work on sparcstations (unix); but we may have to
> move our generated code to Windows.
>
> Here in France, big projects are quite used to
> Ilog's GUI libraries, VIEWS. But we've been told
> about a product from Visix (US) called GALAXY.
>
> It seems to us that Visix Galaxy fits our purposes, but,
> again, we are used to Ilog Views.
>
> We would like to have some feedbacks from users of
> both Views and Galaxy. In your mind, what are the
> advantages and the drawbacks of both Views and Galaxy,
> what is your experience with those products.
> Which one would you advise us to use and why?
>
> Feel free to e-mail me any comment or ftp/www
> references related to both products.
>
> I'll post a digest of what I receive in few days.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Arnaud.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Arnaud Buisine
> Matra Cap Systemes phone: (33) 32 63 40 47
> Parc d'affaires des portes, BP613 fax: (33) 32 63 42 00
> F-27106 Val de Reuil Cedex e-mail: bui...@mcs-vdr.fr
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
To all who answered: thanks for your help.
Following are some of the mails I received. The authors
of the other mails don't want their mail to appear in this
digest.
Regards,
Arnaud.
*************************************************************
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:24:15 -0500
From: geo...@vsl.com (Geoff Heiland)
Hi:
We have evaluated Galaxy and found for our apps that
it is quite slow. We have a lot of windows that are created
up front (we do try to minimize how much is done up front)
and it appears that Galaxy was slow. An associated company
of ours has decided to go with Galaxy, and grudgingly they
admit some bugs, but, their stuck for now. I do not know
much about Views. We have used a product call Object
Builder from Openware Tech. in Florida. Small part of the
market company. We got this product 4 years ago and it is
still one of the most impressive and least heard about. If
I had the choice over again, I'd seriously look at Views
and the XVT offerings.
I hope my two cents worth helps.
-------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Heiland Phone: (403) 266-9248
200, 615 - 3rd Avenue S.W. Fax: (403) 266-9292
Veritas Seismic (1987) Ltd. email: geo...@vsl.com
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
T2P 0G6
*************************************************************
From: jo...@hotngui.com (Joey Jarosz)
Organization: hot-n-GUI, Inc.
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 23:22:20 GMT
>
>It seems to us that Visix Galaxy fits our purposes, but,
>again, we are used to Ilog Views.
I have been using Galaxy for about 4 years now. Originally when I was manager
of a user interface group and now as president of my own consulting firm.
You should make sure that you do an equal comparison of these types of
products as they all solve slightly different problems. Galaxy does include a
very well designed cross-platform GUI solution, but in addition to that it
contains cross-platform solutions for many other aspects of most applications
including interprocess communications (including distributed apps), file
system support, etc, etc, etc...
I looked at Views sometime ago and found it only dealt with a part of the
cross-platform application problems. I have not seen it recently so maybe they
have expanded by now.
Consider me biased as a majority of my business is related building custom
software that is either based on Galaxy or used in conjunction with Galaxy. I
do try to keep an open mind, but I can't track every tool.
>
>Feel free to e-mail me any comment or ftp/www
>references related to both products.
You might want to check out home page, or Visix's, or a new electronic based
magazine called Cross-Platform Solutions:
http://www.hotngui.com/
http://www.visix.com/
http://landru.unx.com/DD/solutions/
There is also FAQ out there called the PIGUI FAQ (platform independent GUI)
but I can't remember where.
joey
.........................................................................
Joey Jarosz, President tele: 408.499.8526 .
hot-n-GUI, Inc. email: jo...@hotngui.com .
www: http://www.hotngui.com .
.
"Purveyors of Consultations and Custom Software" .
.........................................................................
*************************************************************
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:35:14 -0500
From: lau...@gdb.org
Hi Ardaud,
We have used the C++ version of Galaxy for over a year. In general it is
a good product. However, (1) it's very expensive ($10,000 / seat); (2) it
has a STEEP learning curve, (3) it creates quite large executables on
Unix (on the order of several meg).
It ports VERY easily to Windows, although you need to build it on NT, then
use win32s to run it under 3.1. They are currently beta-testing the Windows
95 version.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Laurie Kramer
Genome Database
lau...@gdb.org
*************************************************************
(I'm sorry to post something in french. I received it as it is.
I haven't got the time to translate it for now, but if you
want a quick translation of this mail, feel free to mail me.
Arnaud.)
From: lac...@worldnet.net (Frederic LACHASSE)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:27:40 GMT
J'utilise ILOG Views 2.1, mais je ne connais pas du tout Visix Galaxy,
aussi je ne peux que parler de mon expérience avec Views.
J'apprécie beaucoup ses performances. Mon PC est un Pentium 90 avec
32Mo de mémoire sous Windows NT, et je n'ai aucun problème pour gérer
plus de 30000 objets ILOG Views dans une applications: un double-click
sur un des objets fait apparaître un popup instantanément. La création
et le dessin complet de tous les objets prends quelques secondes. Le
Pentium est un bon processeur, mais mon PC n'est quand même une
SparcStation. La consomations mémoire est très raisonable: mon
programme doit consommer 5 à 10 Mo, plus des 3/4 sont mes propres
données.
Views est donc excellent pour créer des programmes qui gérent et
modifient de grands graphes (plusieurs milliers de noeuds) et/ou des
dessins vectoriels.
Portabilité excellente entre unix et Windows: la plus grosse
limitation de la version Windows est la connection à un seul écran
(celui du PC) contrairement à la version Unix où un programme peut
utiliser plusieurs serveur X (Il s'agit de PC après tout...). Au
contraire, la version Windows possède des fonctions supplèmentaires
pour utiliser le système d'impression de Windows, unix n'ayant pas
encore de standard dans ce domaine. En fait, pour mes programmes, je
n'ai jamais été obliger d'utiliser des API du système pour la partie
graphique, donc mon programme est portable par simple recompilation
sur toutes les plateformes unix supporté par ILOG.
Par contre, je ne suis pas à 100% satisfait du module "gadgets" de
Views destiné à faire les interfaces type boîtes de dialogue.
Cepandant, ILOG Views 2.2 (disponible très prochainement) devrait
beaucoup améliorer ce point.
Tout cela est bien sûr plutôt subjectif et seulement mon opinion
propre, et ne concerne en rien les qualité et défaut de Galaxy, que je
ne connait pas du tout.
Frederic LACHASSE (ECP 86)
CompuServe: 100530,2005
Internet: lac...@worldnet.net
*************************************************************
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 18:54 EST
From: p...@iglou.com (Pen Helm)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
Do you get 'Software Development' magazine over there?
They have been examining the question from time to time.
There's also a FAQ with 'pigui' in the filename that covers this...
Is Ilog Views really usable? They sent me a demonstration disk,
and the sample applications were unacceptable! (On Windows NT, anyway.)
XVT seems to be popular for some purposes.
I also have heard some good things about StarView, a German package.
*************************************************************
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 02:56:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Pen Helm <p...@iglou.com>
> where do I get this FAQ?
Try looking in:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/comp.windows.misc/*
or ftp.iglou.com/faq/portable-GUI-software/*
I was wrong about the filename, on iglou anyway it's 'part1' and 'part2'
*************************************************************
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 95 13:08:57 GMT
From: hel...@quaduk.co.uk (Helen Slaughter)
Dear Arnaud,
[...]
In the meantime, I can provide you with some information on Sammi,
Kinesix's Graphical Framework. Sammi is an X Windows based tool set which
enables users to build graphical user interfaces for real-time distributed
applications. Sammi was designed to run in high performance data or mission
critical environments. Typical user applications execute command and
control functions, monitor data, perform simulations or provide data
analysis.
Sammi is based on industry standards (X, Motif, TCP/IP) and is
available on most UNIX platforms (including SunOS, Solaris and AIX), several
real-time operating systems such as QNX, Lynx and REAL/IX, and Windows NT.
Sammi's open architecture is unique from the traditional graphical
interface tools and therefore offers several features not found in other
products. For example:
Sammi manages the distribution of data and displays across the
network, without writing code at the network transport level
Sammi manages automatic failover to redundant data servers
Object Oriented graphics may be created to satisfy specific
user requirements; these objects then become part of the Sammi system.
Sammi's graphics code is not embedded in the applications code
Displays may be created concurrently with the application code
Non-programmers can design, build and modify displays
Sammi's API consists of only 15 data structures and 30
subroutines
Sammi offers optional alarming, report generation and
scheduling
Sammi's compliance with industry standards and its open
architecture combine to protect software investment while lowering overall
development costs.
If you would like any additional information, you can find Kinesix's Home
Page on http://www.kinesix.com/ or you can contact me on: 01344 742350.
Kind regards,
Helen Slaughter
Marketing Executive.
Kinesix (Europe) Limited
Tel: 01344 742350
Fax: 01344 742351~
*************************************************************
(I'm sorry to post something in french. I received it as it is.
I haven't got the time to translate it for now, but if you
want a quick translation of this mail, feel free to mail me.
Arnaud.)
From: tra...@ascom.cica.fr (Karim TRAORE - ASCOM)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 12:35:23 +0100
Salut,
Nous avons fait des developpement avec Ilog views et aussi investigue Galaxy.
Nous avons choisi plutot ILOG Views parce que nous avions besoin juste d'une interface
graphique pour une plate forme de gestion de reseau. Galaxy et ILOG Views ne se
comparent pas trop directement car Galaxy est une plus grosse plate forme offrant
des outils cross-plateforme, des manager systems, d'E/S , de resource, des managers
de processes ,etc qui ne sont pas vraiment disponible sous Views.
Karim
ASCOM
*************************************************************
From: koen vandenbussche sf900 3167 <buss...@sebb.bel.alcatel.be>
Dear Mr. Buisine,
You can find more information about different tools in the following pages :
GALAXY -> http://www.visix.com/
ILOG -> http://www.ilog.fr/
Neuron Data -> http://www.neurondata.com/
Open UI -> http://www.osa.com/
( Australian Product )
TeleUSE -> http://www.alsys.com/
(French Product of Thomson Software Products)
I've done a marketsearch last month and we will use Galaxy. Last week I followed a training course of Galaxy. Galaxy is a very powerfull tool with the possibility to override or subclass all the existing objects. The tool split the graphical interface from the application code in a very good way. When you change someting at the graphical level ( you delete a button and set it in a menu), you must not recompile your application. You simple change you layout and restart your application. The tool has no limi
ts because it is so big and powerfull. The only problem that occurs is the learning curve.
Sorry for my english.
When you need more information, contact me.
Koen Vandenbussche
______________________________________________________________________________
Koen Vandenbussche
mail: buss...@sebb.bel.alcatel.be
_
V
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*************************************************************
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 09:27:33 -0500
From: Kathleen Wang <kath...@dvcorp.com>
I saw your posting on comp.human-factors. You may be interested in looking
at our DV-Centro product as an alternative to building everything from
scratch. You can get DV-Centro on-line on our WWW site at:
http://www.dvcorp.com under Products.
DV-Centro's architecture is a refinement of the MVC and Seeheim models.
It provides a C++ framework for building complex graphical systems - like
visual language applications.
- Kathy Wang
DataViews Corp.
47 Pleasant St.
Northampton, MA 01060
413-586-8371 ext. 218
kw...@dvcorp.com
fax: 413-586-3805
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