Controlling RF devices
Dave Houston
the list of devices for which CodeGen (tm) can generate CCF (and other
format) codes.
http://www.mbx-usa.com/files.htm
For anyone who wants to control RF devices like ceiling fans, drapes,
fireplaces, custom devices, etc. using a Pronto, PDA, Ocelot, GC-100,
USB-UIRT, etc. there are several "how to" appnotes at...
http://www.mbx-usa.com/appnotes.htm
If my health holds up I'll add the codes for GE SmartHome devices to CodeGen
(tm) after I finish a couple of other projects.
Matthew Kreger
hacking the frequencies, is there an easy way to integrate control of these
RF ceiling fans (Minka Aire - 303MHz) into a home automation system? I'm
just getting started, thinking about downloading Premise when I have a
representave set of devices to control.
Why is it my car (homelink) can learn and repeat the RF codes for my ceiling
fan, but I can't find a serial or USB device that can do it?
I'm also thinking about replacing my ancient Napco security controller with
a Caddx, so maybe I could have a serial connection from that to an RF
transceiver.
I would also like to find some inexpensive recessed wall mounts for Pocket
PC devices. Why pay many hundreds or thousands of dollars for an touchpad
when you can get a Dell PocketPC with 802.11b built-in for under $300?
Thanks,
Matt
"Dave Houston" <nob...@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:40965a35....@nntp.fuse.net...
Dave Houston
an IR receiver, an 8-pin RF receiver, one 4-pin RF transmitter and/or one
6-pin RF transmitter. The board can be used for various projects. See...
http://www.mbx-usa.com/multi.htm
CodeGen(tm) will generate some codes for ceiling fans. MinkaAire controls
are made by the same company as Hampton Bay, Harbor Breeze and more than a
dozen other brands of fan controls. If CodeGen(tm) doesn't have the codes
you need you can use the above board and a 303.875MHz RF receiver to learn
the codes. There are instructions and links to free/shareware apps that will
let you capture them with a soundcard. There are links in the URLs I cited
in my original post.
You could also use the board + RF transmitter with USB UIRT, GC-100, etc. to
send the codes. There are appnotes for both at the URL I cited in the
earlier post.
You can also send the codes with an Ocelot but for good range that requires
building another small device to filter the IR carrier. Again, there's an
appnote at the above cited URL.
I'm not familiar with the capabilities of Premise but you'll need a way to
send a TTL signal to the RF transmitter. I'm not aware of any serial device
other than Slink-e that can accept TTL data and send the baseband signal.
The reason there are not readily available USB devices for learning RF is
that the FCC requires such devices to be tested in a certified laboratory
before they can be marketed. The test costs about $3K and a separate test is
necessary for EVERY frequency. Home-built devices are exempt from testing
requirements.
Devices that learn IR (e.g. Ocelot, USB-UIRT) are looking for an active low
TTL signal from an IR receiver. The data output from most RF receivers is
active high. I've designed an RF input module with several input/output
options. It will be available in 2-3 weeks with several input/output
options. One version can be used with the Ocelot, allowing it to learn RF
codes and treat them as if they were IR codes.
I agree that an 802.11B capable PDA makes a nice controller. I've been doing
that for a long time. (I was using a Visor to send 310MHz RF for X-10
control several years ago.) But, I don't recall seeing wall mounts for any
PDA.
Robert L. Bass
> controller with a Caddx, so maybe I could have a serial
> connection from that to an RF transceiver.
The Napco P9600 has a serial port option as well. I have the protocol docs
if you need them.
Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm
Regards,
Robert
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
Matthew Kreger
Mine is a Napco MA1008LKDL. I don't see any "leftover" connectors that look
like they may be a serial interface.
"Robert L. Bass" <rober...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Zp6dnUhpYt-...@giganews.com...
Matthew Kreger
had hoped. I guess it may be easier to just open up those ceiling fans'
housings, rip out the RF receivers, and use standard X10 controls. But I'm
going to try to make sense out of all the information you've pointed me to
and see if I can activate that other sideof my brain before I go that route.
The first person/company who makes this home automation stuff truly "plug
and play" is going to be very rich.
Matt
"Dave Houston" <nob...@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:40cecab5....@nntp.fuse.net...
Robert L. Bass
> connectors that look like they may be a serial interface.
Oh, OK. That's an older model. There is no serial interface to it other
than the keypad databus, documentation for which is not available.
--
Matthew Kreger
reasonably expect to be able to put a reciever salvaged from an X10
appliance module and a transmitter salvaged from a ceiling fan remote on
this board and have it work? I guess even if I did that I'd still need
something other than my SmartHome Powerlinc USB controller to generate the
signal. What I'd really like to be able to do is assign an X10 address to
it and have a device receive a standard X10 code and transmit the
corresponding code for the ceiling fan.
Thanks again for all the great info.
Matt
"Dave Houston" <nob...@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:40cecab5....@nntp.fuse.net...
Dave Houston
recall whether I tested this specific combination. What do you plan to use
that transmits 310MHz RF?
There is no RF receiver in an appliance module. You need to use the receiver
the board was designed for.
Salvaging an RF transmitter may also present problems. Many use very small
SMT components. Soldering to the boards is difficult. Again, the board is
designed for specific pinouts. The transmitters and receivers it is designed
to work with are inexpensive.
The RF protocol cannot be generated by anything like your USB controller.
Travis Tabbal
> There is a small printed circuit board available that is socketed to accept
> an IR receiver, an 8-pin RF receiver, one 4-pin RF transmitter and/or one
> 6-pin RF transmitter. The board can be used for various projects. See...
>
> http://www.mbx-usa.com/multi.htm
>
> CodeGen(tm) will generate some codes for ceiling fans. MinkaAire controls
> are made by the same company as Hampton Bay, Harbor Breeze and more than a
> dozen other brands of fan controls. If CodeGen(tm) doesn't have the codes
> you need you can use the above board and a 303.875MHz RF receiver to learn
> the codes. There are instructions and links to free/shareware apps that will
> let you capture them with a soundcard. There are links in the URLs I cited
> in my original post.
According to the frequency list on that site, my fan uses 303.904MHz.
Are your receivers and transmitters using a wide enough band for my
fan to work with them? It says Hampton Bay on it, but shows up as
Harbor Breeze via FCCID CHQ8BT7096T. It does have the LCD display, and
CodeGen seems to be able to generate codes for it. I just don't have
any way to send them. I would love to use those nice little pre-built
transmitters. I figgure if codes can be generated, someone had to
receive them and build the database. Has anyone sent codes to one of
these? I got the unit at Home Depot to control a fan a got somewhere
else. It's a remote control kit. Does anyone know more about them?
Such as, do they send periodic signals that might interfere with mine?
I'd like to be able to use the handheld remote as well, if possible.
Travis Tabbal
Dave Houston
The fan receivers I've seen are superregenerative types. Their bandwidth is
on the order of ±500kHz so a 303.875MHz transmitter should be OK with your
receiver. I have tested a 303.825MHz transmitter with a 303.875MHz receiver
and that was OK. Range may be reduced if there is too much of a mismatch.
There are no periodic signals.
There are several people controlling fans with a Pronto using either an
IR2RF or RF2RF converter.
You need more than just a transmitter module to send the RF. You need some
way of sending the TTL bitstream to the transmitter. There is documentation
on the previously cited site for using an Ocelot, a Global Caché GC100 or a
USB-UIRT to control an RF transmitter module. Soon there will also be a
simple serial module that can interface to various RF transmitter modules.
The PIC I want to use for this is finally shipping and I should have some by
next week.
CodeGenPro(tm) is about to be released. It will simplify learning and
editing RF (or IR) codes and allow translating between CCF, LIR, GC100 and
MBX formats.
Travis Tabbal
> The fan receivers I've seen are superregenerative types. Their bandwidth is
> on the order of ±500kHz so a 303.875MHz transmitter should be OK with your
> receiver. I have tested a 303.825MHz transmitter with a 303.875MHz receiver
> and that was OK. Range may be reduced if there is too much of a mismatch.
>
> There are no periodic signals.
>
> There are several people controlling fans with a Pronto using either an
> IR2RF or RF2RF converter.
>
> You need more than just a transmitter module to send the RF. You need some
> way of sending the TTL bitstream to the transmitter. There is documentation
> on the previously cited site for using an Ocelot, a Global Caché GC100 or a
> USB-UIRT to control an RF transmitter module. Soon there will also be a
> simple serial module that can interface to various RF transmitter modules.
> The PIC I want to use for this is finally shipping and I should have some by
> next week.
>
> CodeGenPro(tm) is about to be released. It will simplify learning and
> editing RF (or IR) codes and allow translating between CCF, LIR, GC100 and
> MBX formats.
Excellent. It seems I can start fooling around then. I wasn't sure I
wanted to build a transmitter from scratch for this. :)
I was planning to send a TTL signal with a PIC. I want to have some
fine grained control for this. I don't want to spend much on this
either, I'd rather DIY a standalone module. Buying a $150 unit just to
send commands to the fan has a very low WAF. Buying $10 worth of PIC
parts (I have a programmer) is much eaiser.
On the subject, I was wondering if you could point me at a spec for
one of those code formats? I will need to decode one of them and
strobe the transmitter input. Of course, if you're going to release a
unit I can send the commands to and have it handle that part, I may
well just do that. I wouldn't be using RS-232 though. Also, I was
wondering if CodeGen (or Pro) can output a table of all the possible
values? Or is there a pattern for this fan I can use to generate them
rather than learning them? I haven't looked into this part much as I
wasn't sure if I was going to be able to transmit the code at all.
I've been browsing the site, but it doesn't have the specific low
level info I need. Though CodeGen does, I would rather not manually go
through all the dimmer + fan commands for the device code I'm using.
That's, what, 320 (80 for the dimmer * 4 for the fan)?
Any pointers would be great.
Dave Houston
>
>Excellent. It seems I can start fooling around then. I wasn't sure I
>wanted to build a transmitter from scratch for this. :)
>
>I was planning to send a TTL signal with a PIC. I want to have some
>fine grained control for this. I don't want to spend much on this
>either, I'd rather DIY a standalone module. Buying a $150 unit just to
>send commands to the fan has a very low WAF. Buying $10 worth of PIC
>parts (I have a programmer) is much eaiser.
How will you tell the PIC to send a code?
I'm planning to use an 8-pin PIC and send it the commands via RS232 or RS485
using a proprietary compressed format.
>On the subject, I was wondering if you could point me at a spec for
>one of those code formats? I will need to decode one of them and
>strobe the transmitter input. Of course, if you're going to release a
>unit I can send the commands to and have it handle that part, I may
>well just do that. I wouldn't be using RS-232 though. Also, I was
>wondering if CodeGen (or Pro) can output a table of all the possible
>values? Or is there a pattern for this fan I can use to generate them
>rather than learning them? I haven't looked into this part much as I
>wasn't sure if I was going to be able to transmit the code at all.
>I've been browsing the site, but it doesn't have the specific low
>level info I need. Though CodeGen does, I would rather not manually go
>through all the dimmer + fan commands for the device code I'm using.
>That's, what, 320 (80 for the dimmer * 4 for the fan)?
I don't have a spec. I've learned all the codes manually. I asked the
company that makes the fan controls for documentation on their various
protocols but they haven't responded.
If your LCD model is like the one I captured codes from, there are a lot of
codes. It sends both the fan and dimmer setting with each code.
Travis Tabbal
> How will you tell the PIC to send a code?
>
> I'm planning to use an 8-pin PIC and send it the commands via RS232 or RS485
> using a proprietary compressed format.
I would store the codes of interest in the PIC flash, or an external
flash and have buttons and timers, perhaps sensors.. I haven't decided
what the scope of the project is yet. This is just a little home
project, I'm not trying to sell anything. That's part of the reason I
am avoiding spending any money on the other devices you mentioned.
> I don't have a spec. I've learned all the codes manually. I asked the
> company that makes the fan controls for documentation on their various
> protocols but they haven't responded.
>
> If your LCD model is like the one I captured codes from, there are a lot of
> codes. It sends both the fan and dimmer setting with each code.
My fan remote seems to be exactly the one you captured codes from. It
has all the same features and the same FCCID. The spec I was looking
for isn't for the fan, I expected there wouldn't be much of one
available. I was more interested in decoding the output of CodeGen in
software. It would save me from having to learn the codes all over
again. I was also wondering if you would share the code database you
pull from in CodeGen, just for my fan, I don't need or want the whole
thing. It's faster than me going through each code in the program.
Dave Houston
>My fan remote seems to be exactly the one you captured codes from. It
>has all the same features and the same FCCID. The spec I was looking
>for isn't for the fan, I expected there wouldn't be much of one
>available. I was more interested in decoding the output of CodeGen in
>software. It would save me from having to learn the codes all over
>again. I was also wondering if you would share the code database you
>pull from in CodeGen, just for my fan, I don't need or want the whole
>thing. It's faster than me going through each code in the program.
I spent a lot of time capturing codes and writing CodeGen. I have no plans
to make the details public.
Dave Houston
All you need to do is read up on the CCF hex code format. There's plenty of
documentation available for that.
All of the timing data you need is in the CCF code output from CodeGen. The
second word encodes the carrier frequency. Words 5 to the end are
alternating pulses and spaces in units of carrier cycles.
Travis Tabbal
> >I spent a lot of time capturing codes and writing CodeGen. I have no plans
> >to make the details public.
>
> All you need to do is read up on the CCF hex code format. There's plenty of
> documentation available for that.
>
> All of the timing data you need is in the CCF code output from CodeGen. The
> second word encodes the carrier frequency. Words 5 to the end are
> alternating pulses and spaces in units of carrier cycles.
Fair enough. It's your work, so it's your call. Doesn't hurt to ask.
:)
Thanks for the pointers. I'll read up some more. I searched for CCF,
but got all kinds of useless crap back. I'll try some other search
terms.
Dave Houston
>nob...@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote in message
>
>> All of the timing data you need is in the CCF code output from CodeGen. The
>> second word encodes the carrier frequency. Words 5 to the end are
>> alternating pulses and spaces in units of carrier cycles.
>
>Fair enough. It's your work, so it's your call. Doesn't hurt to ask.
>:)
>
>Thanks for the pointers. I'll read up some more. I searched for CCF,
>but got all kinds of useless crap back. I'll try some other search
>terms.
Just left click on the words in the CodeGen(tm) output window. A popup panel
will tell you what each is, including the duration of the pulses & spaces.
For an explanation of CCF go to RemoteCentral and get Barry Gordon's paper
from the files area.
Matthew Kreger
these Hunter controls work with a standard X10 controller (say, a CM11a)?
I'm still looking for a way to avoid building my own RF tranceiver.
Thanks.
Matthew Kreger
Hunter FCC ID: IN2TX02 Freq: 310.000MHz
Hunter FCC ID: IN2TX03 Freq: 310.000MHz
Hunter FCC ID: IN2TX05 Freq: 310.420MHz
Hunter FCC ID: IN2TX06 Freq: 310.982MHz
Hunter FCC ID: IN2TX07 Freq: 310.200MHz
"Matthew Kreger" <ma...@houseaware.com> wrote in message news:...
Dave Houston
No.
The CM11A sends 120kHz bursts to the powerline. It does not send
through-the-air RF 310MHz RF.
You can steal a transmitter module from an X-10 universal remote but you
would still need some way to control it and you'd be destroying a remote
that costs more than an RF transmitter module.
Matthew Kreger
in the housing or the "bell" that hides the wires at the ceiling mount. I'd
need to be able to put two in there for the light and fan (only one power
line).
I've seen in-line dimmers for incandecent lights and in-line on-off switches
that can work with fans, but my fans have no pull cord to adjust speed.
It's amazing that I can buy 4 different versions of an rf transmitter wall
switch, hand held remote, and a reciever that fits in the bell for $20 from
Home Depot, but no one makes one that is X10 compatible.
"Dave Houston" <nob...@whocares.com> wrote in message
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