Construction of X10 Modules
Mark
invole rather specialist components. Can anyone tell me where to buy
the chips and other unusual components typically used in appliance
modules /lamp modules and wall-switch modules preferably over the net
but any source would do. - Mark Winder, London. mark....@virgin.net.
Walt
who designed them. In other words, they are not sold "over
the counter". The semiconductor "fab" house doesn't own
the design, and thus can't make them for anyone else or
sell them to anyone else.
The only why I know of to get them, is to buy a module and
remove them from the PC board inside.
JVHRoberts
>invole rather specialist components. Can anyone tell me where to buy
>the chips and other unusual components typically used in appliance
>modules /lamp modules and wall-switch modules preferably over the net
>but any source would do.
Here's a question: Does anyone make a programmable part(s) that can do what
these chips do, or even more? There are apps beyond just cheffing up your own
clone, and if one could customize these things, so much the better?
Edward Cheung
> Here's a question: Does anyone make a programmable part(s) that can do what
> these chips do, or even more? There are apps beyond just cheffing up your own
> clone, and if one could customize these things, so much the better?
The chips inside the modules are unique even beyond simple pinout
because
they contain both analog and digital components.
For example, in the wall switch module, the powerline carrier signal is
only passively filtered, and is then connected directly into the chip.
I think there is an analog front end inside that amplifies the signal
for
detection (the carrier is only a couple of tens of millivolts). No
single
chip micro that I know of has a signal amp and a complete micro on one
chip.
I extensively reverse engineered the wall switch unit to try and
substitute a PIC micro for the controller. I was able to get the unit
to work with limited success. My changes were:
- changed a zener to get me 5 V instead of 15.
- put the PIC on a carrier to remap the pins. This carrier is then
soldered in place of the stock chip.
- use the analog input on the chip to sample the carrier.
I was able to get the wall switch module to accept commands and turn
on the light. However sensitivity was poor. I did not see much hope of
attaining my ultimate goal: get the wall switch to SEND X-10 commands.
To see more go to:
http://members.tripod.com/~edward_cheung
click on 'improved wall switch project'
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Edward Cheung, Ph.D. | The opinions expressed herein |
| NASA Goddard Space Flight Center | do not necessarily reflect |
| Mail Code J&T/442 | those of my employers' |
| Greenbelt, MD 20771 | |
|301-286-8027(office) 286-1778(fax)| My next book: |
| edward.b...@gsfc.nasa.gov |Statistics, Demos and Other Lies |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Ido Bar-Tana
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pplunkett/x10.htm
Ido
----
Mark wrote in message <35ECF4...@virgin.net>...
>Several people have published circuits for X10 modules, but these often
>invole rather specialist components. Can anyone tell me where to buy
>the chips and other unusual components typically used in appliance
>modules /lamp modules and wall-switch modules preferably over the net
John Seifert
j...
Barry Parr
John Seifert wrote in message <35EE13EF...@concentric.net>...
>Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
Because the wheels don't fitt the car or they keep falling off. ??
br...@karas.com.delthis
code to do other things in response to recevied commands.
Imagine a module with local if/then logic, or a module that responds
to different codes at different times. Or an appliance module for
halogen lamps that responds to all-lights-on.
On 02 Sep 1998 20:58:40 PDT, John Seifert <jsei...@concentric.net>
wrote:
>Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
>
>j...
>
>Ido Bar-Tana wrote:
>
>> It can be done, based on a PIC:
>> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pplunkett/x10.htm
>>
>> Ido
>> ----
>>
>> Mark wrote in message <35ECF4...@virgin.net>...
>> >Several people have published circuits for X10 modules, but these often
>> >invole rather specialist components. Can anyone tell me where to buy
>> >the chips and other unusual components typically used in appliance
>> >modules /lamp modules and wall-switch modules preferably over the net
>> >but any source would do. - Mark Winder, London. mark....@virgin.net.
>> >
>>
>
--
Brian@ 'at' @Karas. 'dot' .com.
Return address munged to prevent SPAM...
http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/3300
Neil Cherry
>Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
>
>j...
Never tried to do something out of intellectual curiosity? Must not have
much intellegence...
>Ido Bar-Tana wrote:
>
>> It can be done, based on a PIC:
>> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pplunkett/x10.htm
--
Neil Cherry http://home.att.net/~ncherry nch...@worldnet.att.net
Dave Houston
>On 02 Sep 1998 20:58:40 PDT, John Seifert <jsei...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
>>
>>j...
>
>Never tried to do something out of intellectual curiosity? Must not have
>much intellegence...
>
Geez, Neil. When questioning someone's intelligence, it is prudent to use a
spell checker. ;)
Phillip E. Kingery
the practicality of building one's own X-10 compatible devices, Dave
Houston quoted Neil Cherry, who was actually quoting John Seifert when
he wrote:
> >>Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
...to which Neil responded:
> >Never tried to do something out of intellectual curiosity? Must not have
> >much intellegence...
Now I'm sure that Neil made that statement with no malice intent and
with tougue planted firmly in cheek, but as we all know, its hard to
read intent into a string of ASCII characters.
Anyway, Mr. Houston added his comments when he said (of Neil's post)
> Geez, Neil. When questioning someone's intelligence, it is prudent to use a
> spell checker. ;)
I suppose I should also upgrade to a newer version of Netscape that has
spellchecker. I am using Netscape 3.03, which does not. So I too have
the occasional mispulling. Having said that, I tend to agree that
wanting to make your own X-10 devices may be a waste of one's time, but
I also know that I have been known to buy a broken radio from Goodwill
for $5, then spend $50 on parts and when I'm done I have a real nice $10
radio. Sometimes we do things just for the fun and challange of it.
-Phil K.
--
Phillip E. Kingery, PCC Tech Support
Reply to pkin...@act-solutions.com
Advanced Control Technologies, Inc.
Powerline Control Components
Website: http://www.act-solutions.com
NOmik...@swbell#.net
AMEN to "fix-it's"!! My basement shop AND garage are "virtual-museums"
of electronic equipment..BUT the knowledge acquired in resurrecting
these
oldies and/or junkers is the BEST "HANDS ON" E.E/M.E lab course
available!!!
Mike Meers
"retired" Experimental Aero-dynamics Lab Research Technician.
(You got be a good technician FIRST..to be a good ENGINEER later. If you
can't build and make your first design work, how can you trust your OWN
skills??)
--
(Please remove NO, SPAM and # from my email addr to reply)
John Seifert
completed when there is so much "new" that must be learned. As I said the
wheel has already been developed and is working very well.
By the way in•tel•li•gence is spelled with an "i"
j...
Neil Cherry wrote:
> On 02 Sep 1998 20:58:40 PDT, John Seifert <jsei...@concentric.net> wrote:
> >Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
> >
> >j...
>
> Never tried to do something out of intellectual curiosity? Must not have
> much intellegence...
>
> >Ido Bar-Tana wrote:
> >
> >> It can be done, based on a PIC:
> >> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pplunkett/x10.htm
>
Neil Cherry
>Have enough intelligence not to waste time on a project that has already been
>completed when there is so much "new" that must be learned. As I said the
>wheel has already been developed and is working very well.
If ya ain't learnt it it's still new.
Still one should not squash the curiosity of others with such
comments. To assume such for others is a bit arrogant. BTW I do
apologize for the wording of my remark, I was in a bit of raw mood
and the comment struck a nerve. I've had too many people tell me the
way not to learn and not enough explain how to learn.
>By the way in•tel•li•gence is spelled with an "i"
Minor mistake (on my part) but it still doesn't detract from my initial
statement.
Edward Cheung
>
> Have enough intelligence not to waste time on a project that has already been
> completed when there is so much "new" that must be learned. As I said the
> wheel has already been developed and is working very well.
I usually stay away from these editorial threads, but I can't help but
throw in my two cents and disagree with the above statement.
Even if others have already built a project it doesn't mean it is a
waste of time to duplicate it yourself. There is a tremendous amount of
knowledge to be gained by taking on a project and learning how to do
things yourself.
For example, in my home automation system each component can probably be
purchased commercially instead of my hand building it from scratch. BUT
I learned a tremendous amount by designing, building and trouble
shooting
the system myself.
Another example is the repair of wall switch units. Every time one
fails, I open the unit up and replace and repair parts where possible.
Is
it economically advantageous? Probably not (my time, part costs,
shipping
costs etc), but it is fun and educational.
br...@karas.com.delthis
electronics NG's and mailing lists. There are several 'off the shelf'
components today, available from larger companies, that make it very
easy to incorporate DTMF, Telco Interfaces, 2-wire serial networks,
etc. These chips are cheap, easy to implement, and keep parts cost
very low. The problem is that most of the people using them give no
thought to WHO made them, or really HOW they work. It starts a trend
towards people relying on off-the-shelf solutions always being there.
If more hardware 'designers' rely on all this pre-made stuff, who's
going to know how to design these pre-made chips in the future?
Not to inflate Dr. Ed's ego <G> but I remember a thread about a year
or two back where he took on a project of trying to make a 'smarter'
x-10 switch out of a standard cheapie switch. Most people were quite
responsive to that, and offered input from all directions. It was
never completed due (mostly, I think) to size constraints and lack of
feasibility, but it was interesting none the less, and we all learned
a great deal from it.
I don't plan to build my own x-10 module anytime soon, but just
downloading the schematics, and reviewing the PIC code for this DIY
appliance module taught me quite a bit more about X-10 and PLC
devices.
We're not exaclty taking food from the hungry, or money from the poor
here.
Electronics is heavily reliant on a building blocks sort of structure.
Before you can learn the new, you have to understand the old. This
DIY appliance module was not funded by some big government body (that
would be understandably pointless), but by an average hacker trying to
understand and distribute information...
On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:03:15 -0400, Edward Cheung
<doct...@no.junk.email> wrote:
>John Seifert wrote:
>>
>> Have enough intelligence not to waste time on a project that has already been
>> completed when there is so much "new" that must be learned. As I said the
>> wheel has already been developed and is working very well.
>
>I usually stay away from these editorial threads, but I can't help but
>throw in my two cents and disagree with the above statement.
>
>Even if others have already built a project it doesn't mean it is a
>waste of time to duplicate it yourself. There is a tremendous amount of
>knowledge to be gained by taking on a project and learning how to do
>things yourself.
>
Neil Cherry
<SNIP>
>I don't plan to build my own x-10 module anytime soon, but just
>downloading the schematics, and reviewing the PIC code for this DIY
>appliance module taught me quite a bit more about X-10 and PLC
>devices.
I d/l'd the x10am1.zip file and I love the information. I may be able
to build a customer controller I needed for a printer spooler setup I
need.
Doug Smith
> Even if others have already built a project it doesn't mean it is a
> waste of time to duplicate it yourself. There is a tremendous amount of
> knowledge to be gained by taking on a project and learning how to do
> things yourself.
>
> For example, in my home automation system each component can probably be
> purchased commercially instead of my hand building it from scratch. BUT
> I learned a tremendous amount by designing, building and trouble
> shooting
> the system myself.
>
> Another example is the repair of wall switch units. Every time one
> fails, I open the unit up and replace and repair parts where possible.
> Is
> it economically advantageous? Probably not (my time, part costs,
> shipping
> costs etc), but it is fun and educational.
And the knowledge gained allows us to do other things that are worth the
time in other ways. For example, if I hadn't spent all the time tearing
down and repairing wall switch modules I wouldn't have been able to come
up with a way to replace the cheap button with a real switch or build a
module into a lamp. That not only benifits me but anyone who picks up the
details on my web site <http://www.execpc.com/~dsmith/HomeAuto> and is
able to build something with features not available elsewhere. The same
goes for Ed. If he hadn't "wasted" his time, so many of us wouldn't have
ceiling fan controllers that don't hum.
--
Doug Smith <dsm...@exec.com>
<http://www.execpc.com/~dsmith>
Philip Plunkett
(John Seifert) wrote:
> Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
>
> j...
>
> Ido Bar-Tana wrote:
>
> > It can be done, based on a PIC:
> > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pplunkett/x10.htm
As the designer of the PIC based X-10 compatible appliance module in
question I was pondering whether to rise to the bait and try to justify
the effort.
Meanwhile a number of you have eloquently saved me the trouble!
The design was an intellectual exercise based on a real requirement.
These days my electronics business involves me in rather more business and
rather less hands-on electronics. I wanted to check that the brain cells
were still functioning.
Philip
Philip C. Plunkett ABACUS ELECTRICS
Tel: 0181-994-6477 FAX: 0181-994-1766 10 Barley Mow Passage
Email: pplu...@cix.co.uk Chiswick, London
http://www.abacuselectrics.com W4 4PH, U.K.
Theresa Berry
will post the correct answer to the board when you find it. I would also
like to be able to build a heavy duty lamp dimmer that could handle 2000
watts. Good luck and let us know how you made out. May persons have
hit your site in response to your question.. Thanks. Greg.
Mark
As to why I'd want to do this, it's a combination of being the best way
to learn, being able to put into practice new ideas, and being able to
make simple variants on the commercial units, as several people have
pointed out.
Phillip Plunkett and Edward Cheung provide full details for how to make
X10 'recievers' and I've found them extremely useful in understanding
X10, and planning future projects.
My next question is is it possible to make an X10 transmitter?
(controller)?
Mark Winder, London mark....@virgin.net
Neil Cherry
>In article <35EE13EF...@concentric.net>, jsei...@concentric.net
>(John Seifert) wrote:
>
>> Why reinvent the wheel? Must have nothing better to do with your time.
>>
>> j...
>>
>> Ido Bar-Tana wrote:
>>
>> > It can be done, based on a PIC:
>> > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pplunkett/x10.htm
>
>As the designer of the PIC based X-10 compatible appliance module in
>question I was pondering whether to rise to the bait and try to justify
>the effort.
>Meanwhile a number of you have eloquently saved me the trouble!
>
>The design was an intellectual exercise based on a real requirement.
>These days my electronics business involves me in rather more business and
>rather less hands-on electronics. I wanted to check that the brain cells
>were still functioning.
I've been studing your design and I like it. At first it scared me
that you had the +5VDC at the same level as the 120VAC (pin 14 VDD is
directly connected to line). But then I realized that the 5V ground
was not directly connected to the neutral I was much happier. I still
need to study the design so I can learn more. Just one question, what
is 4n7? Is that the same as a 4.7n farad cap?
Thanks for the design!
Philip Plunkett
wrote:
> what is 4n7? Is that the same as a 4.7n farad cap?
You got it - European notation, eg
4n7 = 4.7nF
6u8 = 6.8uF
1M5 = 1.5M ohms
2k7 = 2.7k ohms
Philip
J'mes Pallack
wrote:
>Several people have published circuits for X10 modules, but these often
>invole rather specialist components. Can anyone tell me where to buy
>the chips and other unusual components typically used in appliance
I've seen boards forsale that contain basic X10 for homemade projects.
Uusally back of electronic magazines/tabloids. Or some catalogs like
Jameco, Digikey. But forget exactly where...
if/when I find it again..I'll reply again.
J'mes
O /
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for each violation."
Terry King
In another direction: I would like to use commercial
X-10 modules because of their cost and simple installation.
BUT I want to hardwire them to my controller, and NOT use
X-10 communications.
Has anyone successfully modified typical X-10 modules (say an
appliance module) to be turned on and off my an external logic
level or 12VDC signal? I envision an optoisolator connected the
"right pins" on the X-10 chip, and some simple "cut" to disable
the X-10.
Sorry if this seems blasphemous; I have a totally hardwired system
with lots of different optically-isolated I/O on it...
Any suggestions welcome...
Terry King
Little Castle Studio
..In The Woods in Vermont
tk...@together.net
Curtis Wise
Terry King
Mainly because the neat X-10 form factor and the fact that
it fits into an outlet (where the power is!) with
standard hardware etc...
I understand the Appliance Modules HAVE a relay
in them, that is a position-latching type. I'd
like to know how to easily active those relays
from another system...
Robert Walker
There are virtually hundreds of controls out there specifically designed
to control relays in exactly this fashion. You are making entirely too much
work for yourself.
ADI (which is all around the country) sells a variety that can be
interfaced with other HA systems, or computers, or Burg systems...
Unless, of course, it has become a challenge for you now, then good
luck!