which x10 transceiver module to use?
arnie
connected in each phase of 110V/50Hz in a 2-single phase connections.
There are x10 lamp module [LM465] along with motion sensor MS14A set
to the house code of lamp module. The motion sensor is working by
turning on the lamp module when any motion is detected but the PLC is
not getting any feedback corresponding to the motion sensor activity
Is the motion sensor working with the aid of signal linc.
What x10 transceiver module can i make use of in conjunction with
sensor
Thanks
Arnie
Dave Houston
The Signalincs do not transmit X-10 but only Insteon.
I think you say the motion sensor is now turning on the LM465. That is not
possible without an X-10 transceiver (e.g. TM751, RR501) unless you have a
motion sensor that sends directly to the powerline. Even with an X-10
transceiver, the Powerlinc will only get feedback if the transceiver is on
the same phase as the Powerlinc.
Normally, I recommend the Leviton HCPRF as it handles all housecodes but,
with your installation being so non-standard, it may not be worth the extra
cost. The best alternative is the X-10 RR501. It receives both via RF and
via the powerline (and responds to Status Request for its relay) while the
TM751 responds only to RF.
Leviton HCPRF: http://www.smarthome.com/4017.html
X-10 RR501: http://www.smarthome.com/4005x.html
X-10 TM751: http://www.smarthome.com/4002.html
As someone else has already suggested, you need to include the model numbers
for all hardware to avoid confusion. X-10 compatible equipment is made by
several companies and features differ from model to model and from
manufacturer to manufacturer.
arnie
in the circuit. As mentioned in your if through this transceiver the
lamp module is getting turned on then why the PLC is not getting any
feedback of the transceiver activity. I have tried connecting it both
in the same phase as PLC as well in another phase. Though the lamp
module gets turned ON on motion detction but i do not see anything in
the PLC command window related to this
Thanks
Arnie
Dave Houston
The most likey explanation is that the TM751 (?) is on one phase and the PLC
is on another. As I posted before, the Signalincs repeat Insteon commands
between phases but they do not repeat X-10 commands.
arnie
my PLC is still not getting the feedback. If we think 50Hz frequency
is the factor responsible then taken as a whole it should not work.
The room is small test lab type where all these setup resides with one
step down transformer also in the room. The room is entirely closed
one with glass door.Is the noise on line may be a reson. I am making
use of step down transformer since the supply available is 240V
Thanks
Arnie
Dave Houston
I think most, if not all, X-10 made devices merely react to the line
frequency and do not care whether it is 50Hz or 60Hz. It's only for the
other two phases that it has to calculate the zero crossing times. It can
only sense the phase into which it is plugged and must calculate the others.
Anyway, the fact that it operates the lamp indicates the transceiver is
sending powerline commands OK.
Other things can cause problems. Read this page for a brief introduction to
noise and signal strength issues.
http://davehouston.net/noise.htm
Jeff Volp has written a more detailed X-10 trouble-shooting guide. There is
a link to it on the above cited page.
Dave Houston
loads the line and attenuates the signal. The more two-way devices in use,
the more signal strength problems you will experience.
Dave Houston
note that the only apparent differences between the Pro and Standard lines
are the prices, model numbers and plastic cases. Internally, they appear
identical.
ved_...@hotmail.com
Hi Arnie,
Is the same step down transformer (I assume it is a 230-to-110)
driving all the X10 devices? If you are using seperate transformers
(or a mix of 230V and 110V devices some on the transformer and some
direct), you would have a problem; this is because the X10 signal cant
reliably jump from the secondary back to the primary (although these
are typically auto-transformers).
Also, the 60/50 Hz issue would come up only if you have the X10
devices spread over different phases; not if they are all on the same
one.
Regards
Anand
arnie
Yes you are right, all the insteon/x10 devices are being placed in the
two phases [110V/50Hz each] coming from the step down transformer.
According to your view.If i place my PLC on one phase and an x10
device on another phase. When i send a command to PLC let say ON/OFF
command for an x10 device [on another phase], then the command will be
going via the step down transformer's secondary windings. Ok if we
assume this is the reason. Then in the USA where the people are using
generally 2-phases [110V/50Hz] will also have this problem? I mean to
ask then in such case will also the command signal travel down to the
outside/street transformer?
I may be wrong in my assumption.
Thanks
Arnie
Dave Houston
Most USA residential distribution uses two 120V/60Hz phases that are derived
in the same way as you are deriving two phases, with a center-tapped
secondary, so the zero crossings coincide in time but are 180° apart in
phase. However, the step-down transformer has a 7200V or (usually) higher
primary and is usually some distance from the residence. Coupling should be
better with your test setup but will probably depend on the transformer. You
can bridge the two secondary phases using a 0.1µF/600V capacitor (it should
be enclosed for safety).
Most people in the USA find they need either a passive coupler (e.g. a
capacitor) or active coupler/repeater to couple the two phases.
With three phase power, the zero crossings are 120° apart in phase with none
coincident in time, and you need to couple each phase with each other phase.
Your PLC interface only sends for a single phase so you will need a
different PLC interface for a 3-phase system.
You can buy X-10 components for 240V/50Hz or you can modify 120V/60Hz
devices (there are instructions on the web). I'll let Anand (who has
experience with all of this in your country) handle the details.
radhik...@gmail.com
>
> With three phase power, the zero crossings are 120° apart in phase with none
> coincident in time, and you need to couple each phase with each other phase.
> Your PLC interface only sends for a single phase so you will need a
> different PLC interface for a 3-phase system.
Absolutely; besides the coupling, its an issue of timing; as Dave
pointed out, the first signal is synchronised with the zero crossing
of the phase the device is on. However, the 2nd and the 3rd 'copies'
are sent 2.8ms and 5.6 ms respectively. This is so that in a 60 Hz 3
phase system, they would synchronise with the zero crossings on the
other 2 phases. Now, in a 50 Hz setup, the devices on the other phases
would be looking for a signal at a slightly wrong time, and would
therefore miss it. Fortunately, the signal burst itself is 1 ms wide,
so I have been able to get away with this issue *most* of the times,
as long as good coupling between the phases exist.
Regards,
Anand
arnie
If yes then how??
Thanks
Arnie
Dave Houston
No! You cannot "control" the PMS02/MS14A. They are one-way devices that only
send RF codes to a transceiver. They do not receive commands. They have no
RF receiver section nor do they have a powerline interface.
arnie
Are all RF transceiver models are one way only?
Arnie
Dave Houston
If you would read the sales literature and user manuals (available on X-10
and X-10 Pro web pages) for the modules and devices that interest you, most
of your questions will be answered.
We are not talking about the transceiver but the motion sensor. It is
one-way only in that it sends RF but receives nothing.
All of the transceivers are two-way in some limited fashion. The one you've
been asking about, receives RF and transmits to the powerline. The RR501
receives RF, receives from the powerline and transmits to the powerline.
None of the transceivers transmit RF. Calling them "transceivers" is really
a misnomer (the term normally is used for a unit that both transmits and
receives RF) but that's what X-10 chose to call them so we're stuck with it.