All House v Home Seer or others
David Punter
I have just started trialing All House Access and Home Seer. I am sure you
all have some opinions, pros and cons about the two products that you could
share with me.
Any other products that I should look at?
TonyNo
HomeSeer has a ton of users. I hear their support is good, too. I tried the
demo, but, went with PowerHome (www.myx10.com) instead. I initially picked
PowerHome by it's price ($39), but, have not run into any problems, or,
things I could not do. It has a smaller user base (at least as far as I can
tell), but, the support is top notch, and, Dave is very open to feature
requests (most all I have seen requested have been implemented).
Tony
"David Punter" <dpu...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:98Oqa.7$kc3....@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Tim or Marty Shephard
Homeseer, I e-mailed my wife my current IP address, and she looked at the
screen and figured out how to flip lights on and off from the office
internet. If all the functions are as functional and easy to use as this,
it's the only way to go. I have no commercial interest in anything, just
seen a awful lot of hard to use software other places.
"David Punter" <dpu...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:98Oqa.7$kc3....@vicpull1.telstra.net...
1
The Alien
I know you asked about "All House" however, I can tell you this:
I've messed with Mister House, ZeusHome, HomeSeer and CMax and I've
found HomeSeer, with an Ocelot to be the best choice in my situation.
And that's the key, isn't it? It really depends on your situation and
your needs. Zeus was excellent for the price however if you want to
do more than simple lights on, lights off, then you should consider
HomeSeer and the Ocelot from www.appdig.com. HomeSeer and Ocelot are
pricey, however, in this business, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! :)
Tim or Marty Shephard
While I would to see them cheaper, but for the control and interfaces you
get for $150-175 they are a deal.
(The Leopards seem high to me, should be maybe $100 above Ocelot, not
$350+).
I think Homeseer and Ocelots are the way to go.
I do some industrial controls, and with this system, you add a 8 in / 8 out
card, and do real (critical, not just lights) controls for another $80
Robert L. Bass
robust, stand-alone security, virtually unlimited configuration options and
HomeSeer's interface. Since the new plug-in replaced HAWizard I've had zero
complaints from clients interfacing HS to Gemini.
<Disclosure> I'm slightly biased in this because I sell HomeSeer and Napco.
</disclosure>
Regards,
Robert
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
www.Bass-Home.com
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota, FL 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Support
941-232-0791 Mobile
ASA Online Vendor
www.altsecurityalarms.com
=============================>
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
<sheph...@comcast.net> wrote in message
<7amcndDAqav...@comcast.com>:
FWIW, "Homeseer and Ocelot" is really "Homeseer and Ocelot and the C-Max
controller language for the Ocelot ". Folks who buy Homeseer and an
Ocelot thinking otherwise are in for a rude surprise. Do check out the
C-Max language to determine whether you are comfortable programming the
Ocelot with C-Max. The new version has added wizards that make it easier
to use, but it is still not for everyone.
If one graduates from the "Home-Toys" perspective of Home Automation
which views HA devices as Boys Toys that are quickly superseded or
broken, to implementing solutions recognized by bankers, appraisers,
insurance companies, and potential future owners as having lasting value,
then the cost of a solid HA system is inexpensive in the context of the
2002 median price of a home sold in the US ($158,000). Allotting even
only 1% of a median home's price/value to installation of Home Automation
yields a budget of about $1600.
But what you install might need to satisfy a broad range of perceptions
of what adds value. For example, every X-10 systems I've ever seen would
probably reduce rather than increase the value of a house when it finds
its way to the open market. Any system identified as X-10 is likely
stigmatized in the eyes of many folks -- which is one reason why some
companies use X-10 Power Line Technology (PLC) technology but avoid the
X-10 name such as ACT, Leviton, and Lightolier.
HTH ... Marc
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
www.econtrol.org
Rich DeYoung
a controller/software solution?
...Rich
> If one graduates from the "Home-Toys" perspective of Home Automation
> which views HA devices as Boys Toys that are quickly superseded or
> broken, to implementing solutions recognized by bankers, appraisers,
> insurance companies, and potential future owners as having lasting value,
> then the cost of a solid HA system is inexpensive in the context of the
> 2002 median price of a home sold in the US ($158,000). Allotting even
> only 1% of a median home's price/value to installation of Home Automation
> yields a budget of about $1600.
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
<rdeyo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
<CZSdnfyHgvI...@comcast.com>:
>> If one graduates from the "Home-Toys" perspective of Home Automation
>> which views HA devices as Boys Toys that are quickly superseded or
>> broken, to implementing solutions recognized by bankers, appraisers,
>> insurance companies, and potential future owners as having lasting
>> value,then the cost of a solid HA system is inexpensive in the context
>> of the 2002 median price of a home sold in the US ($158,000).
>> Allotting even only 1% of a median home's price/value to installation
>> of Home Automation yields a budget of about $1600.
>.
>>
>> HTH ... Marc
>> MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
>> www.econtrol.org
>
>I may be missing something, but what do you recommend as not "Home-Toys"
>for a controller/software solution?
>
> ...Rich
Off the cuff, I'd define a system that is "not a Toy" as a system that
can be maintained by someone other than the original owner and so has
value to subsequent owners of a home.
In other words, if you stroke out tomorrow, can someone else still use
and maintain the system you've built? Or is it a incomprehensible pile of
parts and wires and undecipherable code in a proprietary language?
Nearly all commercial alarm systems (Napco, Ademco, CADDX, DSC, Omni,
etc) would qualify as "not a Toy" using this definition. Alarm systems
are independently recognized by insurance companies as having value
whenever they are the basis for a discount made on homeowner's insurance.
Installation repair and service on most national brands can be done by
numerous companies in any metropolitan area. A home-brew system made of
x-10 modules or custom hard-wired that only one individual understands
would not qualify.
For general purpose HA control, Crestron, AMX/Panja, Omni, Premise
software system with conventional "federated" hardware and a permanently
installed dedicated PC (among others).
Lighting system include CentraLite, Touchplate, Lutron, Lightolier
(hardwired), ALC, Clipsal, and numerous others including "architectural"
systems and DMX512. Also preprogrammed (ie, not dependent on a computer)
X-10 PLC including ACT, Lightolier Compose, and Leviton.
An X-10 system that depends on an owner-programmed PC, however elegant,
may not make it, although a permanently installed Homeseer brand Server
package with Lightolier Compose (X-10 with "firewalls") would qualify
even with idiosyncratic programming because of the likelihood that
someone could re-program from scratch and make it work.
Other systems that are Toys are those that would fail if a wall-wart were
disconnected, or that depends on a computer that is also doing other
things, or violates building codes (eg. National Electrical Code), or ...
[add many other common features of home-built systems here].
My one cent ... Marc
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
www.econtrol.org
Tim or Marty Shephard
playing with
toys until the first year I gave her 10 lamp modules for her Christmas
candles in the front windows.
When the same IBM remote that worked the TV turned on the candles from in
the front yard, where she could check them, I was a genius.
I've done $300,000 Automated Logic BAS Systems and X10 stuff, and it's the
quality of the installation, not the products involved.
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
<sheph...@comcast.net> wrote in message
<WAKdnechmIG...@comcast.com>:
I think most people would agree disagree with the statement that it's
not "the [quality] of the products involved [that is important]" if
that is what you meant to say.
Part of the problem with X10-brand X-10 is the low quality and high
failure rate of some of their products. Especially prior to the
arrival of X-10 trouble-shooting tools like the Elk signal meter, it
was time-consuming to diagnose whether a problem was due to component
failure, signal strength. or the intrinsic problem of collisions.
Tim or Marty Shephard
the failure rate of the devices used, and provides benefits, for the dollars
spent, then the quality of the installation, not the products involved,
provides the highest return per dollar not the costs of the products.
If the X10 devices, at $10 per drop, plus $50 per hour installation time
provide 90% effectiveness, then 9 Cmas's out of 10 the lady of the house
does not climb the steps to light the Cmas candles, it's an understandable
deal.
If she walks up again 1 Cmas out of 10 and swaps a bad module and throws it
away, it's still a deal.
By quality of installation I mean slowing down the owner and engineering a
job to the method involved, in this case X10.
Nothing critical without backup, explain to the Lady how it works, provide a
spare, and wow, you're an expert.
Properly applying (even the human factor) the method involved is the
key.........
If you have to hit a button twice occasionally, and the difference is $500,
hit the key twice.
It's not for critical systems, remember? Just lights and stuff, right?
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
<sheph...@comcast.net> wrote in message
<GOadnQwA8rG...@comcast.com>:
Lights are indeed "critical systems". You can't sell a house without
lights, or get a conventional mortgage on a house without lights, or an
occupancy permit, or ..
Christmas dod-dads are just that and are not part of a house's basic
lighting infrastructure.
Electrical lighting is the single most important use of electricity
world-wide since the invention of the light bulb.Try living without it.
Must be time to " properly apply ...the human factor " and "slow[] down the
owner and engineer[] the job to the method involved".
Adios ... Marc
MFH...@nothydrologistnot.com
www.econtrol.org
Neil Cherry
>No, as discussed in other posts elsewhere, if the installation accommodates
>the failure rate of the devices used, and provides benefits, for the dollars
>spent, then the quality of the installation, not the products involved,
>provides the highest return per dollar not the costs of the products.
I'm not arguing this point as I tend to agree.
>If the X10 devices, at $10 per drop, plus $50 per hour installation time
>provide 90% effectiveness, then 9 Cmas's out of 10 the lady of the house
>does not climb the steps to light the Cmas candles, it's an understandable
>deal.
With my wife failure is not an option (she might accept a 1 or 2%
failure rate of operation), she wants the reliability of her standard
wall switch. Example, our hall tree has some Christmas lights wrapped
around an artifical vine (can't see them in the day time). It worked
fine up until last week where it failed to light. I had to manually
send the X10 signal to turn it on (it worked then). Turns out I added
some new electronics and it messed with the signal. Weird thing was
that it was on a different 'phase' in the house and X10 signals sent
on that phase work fine. My main X10 xmitter is on the same phase as
the hall tree (weird!). I fixed it but she's not happy with the
performance. Now I need to seek out every possible 'X10 sink' and add
a filter. The good news is I'm pretty confident I know where all the
devices are and the reliability will increase.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of X10's cost vs performance.
If I were to add up the cost of the modules & filters and compare it
to the convenience I think I might think twice about using X10 but the
ability to add a module here and a module there does allow me to
ignore such things.
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry nch...@comcast.net
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ncherry/ (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
Chuck Yerkes
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:02:03 -0400, "Tim or Marty Shephard"
> <sheph...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> <GOadnQwA8rG...@comcast.com>:
>>Properly applying (even the human factor) the method involved is the
>>key.........
>>If you have to hit a button twice occasionally, and the difference is
>>$500, hit the key twice.
>>It's not for critical systems, remember? Just lights and stuff, right?
>
>
> Lights are indeed "critical systems". You can't sell a house without
> lights, or get a conventional mortgage on a house without lights, or an
> occupancy permit, or ..
In *my* use of that phrase, having a light not go on does
not lead to the same effects of having, say, the furnace or
refrigerator not go on.
I can handle the dark, I can handle a light being on all night
went it shouldn't be. But my furnace not being right or my garage
door not opening (or not closing) is different.
I'm looking at using an iButton wired to a solonoid for an extra
entrance/office part of the house. It *will* have a battery attached
(or more likely a keyed way in) in case of power failure.
> Electrical lighting is the single most important use of electricity
> world-wide since the invention of the light bulb.Try living without it.
And one could say the same thing about cars, etc.
Mom had a bad icestorm last year. No power for about 8 days. Gas stove
and a wood stove meant that the inconvenience was no TV (not a bad thing
in my view), showers at her gym and taking the flashlights to work to
recharge them in the day.
15 degree temps meant ... Oh, the little space heater she likes in the
living room didn't work. She grabbed a blanket. And she laughed that
with her electric toothbrush down, she had to move her whole wrist!
You can live without electric light and electricity. You can't live
without heat (where she lives, I live where it's always 60F/18C).
(next time she does the room, I'm encouraging PV solar panels, however.
http://www.solarhouse.com/ convinced me that NE solar is not impossible).
JimF
>
>
Have you looked at HouseBot? It looks nice and it's free!
http://www.cebotics.com/HouseBot.htm